Poor people are poor because God made them that way, and feeding them is going against God’s plan. Why is that so hard for you heathens to understand?

“I am also the most humble man on the planet.”

Because of shorter, OBLIGATORY

Also hilarious because conservative.

It’s kinda funny when these Fundyjellybellies harp on about how Murkuh is a Christian nation and only Christian things should be allowed and the government should enforce Christian principles and the 10 Commandments should be carved into every slab in the sidewalks.

AND THEN

They turn around and scream that the government has not right to enforce Christian principles such as giving to the needy because Freedumb!

AND THEN

Back to screaming for a 100% Christian government!

AND THEN…

I keep hoping they’ll forget to spot as they’re pirouetting, get dizzy and fall out of a window.

Conservatives can vehemently disagree with liberals to the point of calling their opinions “despicable, repulsive, loathsome, revolting and sometimes, as in a recent case, laughably deceitful” and it’s the epitome of Christ-like tolerance, but even mildly disagreeing with conservatives or, worst of all, laughing at them, is horribly intolerant and stifling their first amendment rights.

As for Matthew 25, I’d advise him to pay close attention to how surprised the goats are, having thought they were the true followers and had it all figured out.

As to clothing the naked and feeding the hungry, that’s clearly an individual responsibility, not a collective one – and certainly not one that is fulfilled through government coercion.

They have got to have a secret bible that has a bunch of different stuff in it.

Is there any evidence in the scriptures or the words of Jesus that imply or hint that we should approve of government wealth-redistribution programs that create dependency and foster cycles of long-term poverty in the less fortunate? Emphatically no.

Or maybe they don’t read good?

In other circumstances, that is to say when killing the right people, I would guess that the Government might be considered by Farah as to be acting as HIS* Instruments.

It really sounds as if he’s more concerned about Christians’ experiencing feeding the poor more than about whether or not the poor be fed…kind of selfish.

*And he would mean ‘HIS’.

AIEEE! I click the link to the next post, and the first thing I see is that picture? You tryin’ to trigger a heart attack, or sumpin’?

OK, now I have that off my chest, on to finish reading the post.

Of course, Mr Individual Responsibility can’t actually show one example of exherting his Individual Mandate (heh) to “care for the poor” – because he’s a (wait for it!) hypocritical asshole; the same species bible Jesus spent his whole time railing on. Letting his employees “touch it” doesn’t count.

We can see this for ourselves in Fundie churches, where the removal of all those others just leads the members to turn on each other and kick each other out over such imperceptible differences.

I learned this while living in southeast Kansas: The United Pentacostals broke away from Run-O-the-Mill Pentacostals because scripture has Christ saying “you must be baptised in my name.” Well, sportsfans, anyone baptised “in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” is going straight to HELL!…because they haven’t been baptised “in Jesus’ name.” That’s the microscopic doctrinal difference behind the Great Schism of the Pentacostals: ‘Son’ versus ‘Jesus’

Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter can rest easy. We have a new worst president.

Yes indeedy!!! GEORGE W BUSH

So, I’m reading along, and see this:

And to prove I’m the most tolerant publisher in the world

And I think this guy’s got a few problems with reality. Then I move to the next quote:

I might not just be the most tolerant publisher in the world, I may also be the most tolerant person in the world.

And I know he does. And so modest, too.

That this guy undoubtedly considers himself the best Christian, the model to which all others should aspire, is depressing in the extreme. And as Cerb points out, he doesn’t even have very good reading comprehension. In addition to the truly terrifying face, that is (and it’s the eyebrows, more than the porn ‘stache that does it for me).

They have got to have a secret bible that has a bunch of different stuff in it.

In the secret bible every alternate verse is about how sinful abortion is. Every verse not about abortion details the evils of the gay agenda (or shellfish).

I keep hoping they’ll forget to spot as they’re pirouetting, get dizzy and fall out of a window.

Shakezula: You entire comment (0:20) had me chuckling….and your tagline is brilliant.

Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter can rest easy. We have a new worst president.

Yes indeedy!!! GEORGE W BUSH

Before Shrub’s presidency, I was always torn between James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson for the Worst Ever title. Now I rest easy….

(42) James Buchanan ?
(43) Andrew Johnson ?
.
.
.
.
.
(44) George W. Bush

“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

Oh sure, W screwed up pretty much everything but… TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!! Wooooohooooo! Best preznit evah!!!

“Vanity. Definitely my favorite sin.”

Shorter Wing Nut Daily: we fronted every last birther conspiracy theory we could find, therefore, we’re WAY more tolerant than any reality-based publication could ever hope to be!

Hey! Let’s introduce some obscure sideline fun for the thread! How would you rank the Non-Republican, Non-Democratic presidents. (* — Let’s avoid Best Presidents, because that will prolly lead to unseemly disagreements.)

I’m going to leave out the ‘Democratic-Republican’ presidents altogether because that would be confusing. Also they seized control and ran the country between Jefferson and J.Q. Adams, inclusive. Btw, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party have had 34 presidents. Pick Blue or Red. Wow. American democracy at work since 1853!

George Washington — Independent
John Adams — Federalist
William Henry Harrison — Whig
John Tyler — Independent
Zachary Taylor — Whig
Millard Fillmore — Whig
Andrew Johnson — National Union

It’s okay if nobody wants to play.

At the risk of spamming the comments, and at the risk of sounding like a paranoid, I am going to re-post this link from a talk2action.org (one of the leading websites whose journalistic mission is to monitor the dominionist movement)

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2013/10/4/112727/355/Front_Page/The_Tea_Party_Plan_To_Shatter_the_American_Republic

The author, Bruce Wilson states that some of the congressmen (*cough*Ron Paul, Rand Paul*cough*) involved in the tea party are actively trying to cause a default on the national debt, so that, when the economy collapses, they can take over and implement a government based on so called biblical principles.

Here’s another fun link at Huffpost, The articles title is:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/pentagon-leaders-met-with_b_4037505.html

Pentagon Leaders Met with Collaborator of Preacher who Proposed ‘Military Takeover’ of the Government

The author, Bruce Wilson states that some of the congressmen (*cough*Ron Paul, Rand Paul*cough*) involved in the tea party are actively trying to cause a default on the national debt, so that, when the economy collapses, they can take over and implement a government based on so called biblical principles.

Mmm-sounds a bit like what the Bachmann types say about Obama

And yet, it is supported better. One of Ron Paul’s longtime associates, Gary North is quoted:

“Precinct by precinct, town by town, county by county, a decentralized political movement could begin to undermine the legitimacy the existing political structure. It can do so politely, helpfully, and sympathetically.
The central issue is legitimacy…

When the dollar dies, political legitimacy dies with it. This is the central premise of my recommended strategy.” — Ron Paul political strategist Dr. Gary North, from Phase 2 of Ron Paul’s Political Strategy

He says this kind of shit all the time and he’s in neck deep with like minded groups like the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers.

I’m not claiming they can succeed, I’m just saying that some of the more evangelical or libertarian Tea Party congressmen may credibly be suspected of having a (terrible) back up plan, and aren’t negotiating in good faith re: the budget crisis.

I suspect pretty much all of the Tea Party congressmen have terrible back up plans and are not negotiating in good faith. Along with many of the non Tea Party GOP congressmen.

, and aren’t negotiating in good faith re: the budget crisis

eh…we are not in the least bit shocked by this are we?

re: magnanimous moustache of mammon (aka joseph farah)

i’m at a loss for words…wow…really…i hope to hell he is totes laffing up his sleeve with this one…or, perhaps the moustache filters reading comprehension or something. cuz what i got out of bill press’ ‘screed’ didn’t even come close to the way joe interpreted it…also, too? if (and this is a might big motherfuckin’ if assholes like farah would actually help out the poor (like jesus would want) then there wouldn’t really be a need for a gubbmint hand-out, now would there? has joe and his ‘stache ever stopped to think (i know) about why and how we developed such a robust need for welfare?

i’m beginning to see a link between these fuckwads who continue deluding themselves into believing in god who can do whatever the fuck he wants, whenever he wants, to whoever he wants (no matter how hard his believers believe and give…if he shits on them, weeeelll…they just gotta try and believe a little harder and be better people) and the current gop…

I suspect pretty much all of the Tea Party congressmen have terrible back up plans and are not negotiating in good faith. Along with many of the non Tea Party GOP congressmen.

I’ve maintained for years now that the TP/GOP are basically Anti-American. Some of them may not realize it, being dumb as stumps and/or ignorant as shit. Others do know better of course. They just don’t care.

and wtf is it with the we are so christian crowd and their smugly shitty ‘hate the sin but not the sinner’ bullshit? that is such a huge fucking cop-out!

what does farah think people really are? i mean holy shit, if you use words like abhorrent, vile, etc. etc. to describe someone’s beliefs, aren’t you pretty much saying that about the person? correct me if i’m wrong, but aren’t we made up of our beliefs?

gads, why am i putting so much into something out of wingnut daily? will my flabber never stop being gasted by such idiocies?

Others do know better of course. They just don’t care.

case in point one joseph farah…i love how the part about the gop’s opposition to food stamps is meanspirited ‘sticks in his craw’ but at the end of press’ piece, when he points out that one of the congress critters who were opposing food stamps on biblical grounds received 8.9 mil in cotton subsidies and then called him a hypocrite, farah was apparently like ‘enh…fair enough…’ because it’s okay to be a rich, subsidy grabbing motherfucker, but oh jeez! better not be poor and need food stamps!

VCarlson/October 9, 2013/3:56:

They love America, the one that lives in their heads, the ‘true Scotsmab’ America noöne will ever actually see; they despise actual Americans and most things actually American for being different to that, or ‘failing to live up to that’ as they would put it.

(Actually, I find this even more irritating when people ideologically closer to me do this…but it’s much more a Right Christianist vice these days.)

or, perhaps the moustache filters reading comprehension

At first I had this mental image of his mustache leaping up his face to cover his eyes while he tried to read, but I think you’ve hit upon something. What if his mustache is much, much longer, only it is growing into his head, up into his brain and strangling those parts of his brain that are devoted to reading comprehension.

And critical thinking.

And not being a ginormous jerkwad.

It would explain a lot.

p.s. Thanks for the mental image of the playful pornstache, it is making me giggle.

magnanimous moustache of mammon (aka joseph farah)

I think that pretty much sums him up.

Also, your point is exactly on the mark, and something I’ve brought up in “discussions” with various family members (sadly, to no effect). The fact that what they’re advocating was tried for centuries, resulting in people dying in the streets (disproportionately women, something these guys probably look on as a feature, not a bug), often after a (short) lifetime of hard, poorly-paid work.

Ted Cruz and his dominionist papa are in that corner as well.

They love America, the one that lives in their heads, the ‘true Scotsmab’ America noöne will ever actually see; they despise actual Americans and most things actually American for being different to that, or ‘failing to live up to that’ as they would put it.

They are in love with economic prosperity and unchallenged military hegemony of the 1950’s and the prosperity experienced at that time by white men in the US,and neither know nor care that it was made possible by:
A) being the only industrialized nation in the world with an intact manufacturing infrastructure
B) retaining massive wartime taxation levels enabling similarly massive spending on industry, education, and transportation
C) Looting postwar Germany of its best and brightest minds and technologies
D) the defacto ‘American Empire’ which allowed the US to unilaterally exploit the third world setting up and dismantling foreign regimes almost at will based on their willingness to be a source of cheap raw materials and labor for the American economy
E) the exclusion from the skilled workforce of nearly all non-white non-male people (to the benefit of white males)
F) record level union membership helping to make sure the productivity gains of the 20th century were distributed to workers as well as captialists

They love America, the one that lives in their heads,

I have to admit I, too, have an America that lives in my head – an ideal that I hope we are all working toward. I like to think that the big difference between us is I know the America-in-my-head isn’t real. I also think my ideal is better for more people*, of course.

*Many of whom are people these folks despise and/or fear.

As to clothing the naked and feeding the hungry, that’s clearly an individual responsibility, not a collective one – and certainly not one that is fulfilled through government coercion.

These people are so fucking self-centered. As far as they are concerned, charity is all about the person giving it. The effect that is has on the poor and hungry is of secondary concern, if that. According to them, if the choice is between a system that works to feed the hungry and clothe the needy but which does not allow them to feel self righteous, and a system that does not work, but lets them feel important, Jesus says you should pick the latter.

I’m no biblical scholar, but I’m pretty sure that if Jesus is the King of Kings, they’re going to in for a seriously unpleasant shock come judgement day. Just sayin’.

We can see this for ourselves in Fundie churches, where the removal of all those others just leads the members to turn on each other and kick each other out over such imperceptible differences.

Reminds me of an Emo Phillips joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!”
He said, “Nobody loves me.”
I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
He said, “Yes.”
I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?”
He said, “A Christian.”
I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?”
He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “Me, too! What franchise?”
He said, “Baptist.”
I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Baptist.”
I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”
I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.”
I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”
I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.

Come on Uehara, get this bastahd.

Oh damn, I’m at work and trying to keep half an eye on the game. I just got all excited and then realized that was only the bottom of the eighth. (sigh)

Hey, weren’t you one of the supporters of the Conservative Bible Project?

FYI, Farah was one of Schlafly’s detractors. In fact, he called it nutty – stopped clock and all that.

but even mildly disagreeing with conservatives or, worst of all, laughing at them, is horribly intolerant and stifling their first amendment rights.

They’re right to be wary of laughter, as it’s a far more powerful disinfectant of mental nonsense than logic and facts.

FYI, Farah was one of Schlafly’s detractors

neatly validating Cerb’s supposition above

if I limited the commentary section to the views of only those with whom I agree, I would be the only regular columnist.

Yeah, that is probably true. And frankly is pretty much the end-result of all conservatism everywhere.

I read this to mean that the RW purity purge continues unabated until each True Christian Patriot becomes the lone voice in the wilderness™ surrounded by RINOs, 5th columnists, enemies, LIEbruls, and Masons. Their personality disorders demand it.

C) Looting postwar Germany of its best and brightest minds and technologies

Well, you can hardly call it stealing when they were just giving it away!

I learned this while living in southeast Kansas: The United Pentacostals broke away from Run-O-the-Mill Pentacostals because scripture has Christ saying “you must be baptised in my name.” Well, sportsfans, anyone baptised “in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” is going straight to HELL!…because they haven’t been baptised “in Jesus’ name.” That’s the microscopic doctrinal difference behind the Great Schism of the Pentacostals: ‘Son’ versus ‘Jesus’

Wow, I am laughing my ass off over this magic words battle (imagine if the Harry Potter verse had holy wars over the proper spelling of curses?), but I really shouldn’t mock. I spent many years going to CCD where I was informed about the ecumenical project which had a goal of bringing the Orthodox Church back into the Catholic fold after they schismed from us. Well, funny story, it was more like the Catholic pope tried to pull a Boehner during “negotiations” with the Orthodox Patriarch during a time when the Western and Eastern Roman Empire had gotten increasing physically, economically, linguistically, and even culturally separated and which finally ended with a “you can’t fire me–I quit!” kind of tantrum. What the Catholics did to precipitate the final conflict was to reword some meaningless* portion of the Nicene Creed without consulting anyone, making them HERETICS in the eyes of all Right-Thinking Christians, causing the Great Schism when the Western Pope refused to listen to reason and change the creed back.

*-for some values of taking nonsense put-ons seriously

At 4:30 Greenwald’s dogs howl in the background.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/World/ID/2411023976/

Backwards, it might be God talking to Farah and Greenwald howling.

I always assumed Joseph Farah was a literalist. Or at least he kinda claimed he’d read the bible and/or maybe memorized a few verses. But no, he’s too close to God to read and he’d rather, I dunno, experience God’s Kingdom on earth than read about it. (I was gonna say Farah turns out to be an illiterate Nazarene but that’s not fair to Nazarenes. Nazarenes tend to read their bibles now and then and they clearly have a sense of humor: http://jesusfilmmedia.org/video/1_14818-jf-0-0/gaelic%2c+scottish/jesus.)

Does this mall-cop uniform make me look fat?

@Helmut – worth reading, from Sinclair Lewis in 1935:

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html

How close is Gary North to Ron Paul ? Well, they have been collaborating since Paul’s 1976 entrance to national politics, when Paul picked North as his congressional aid (North boasts that he was Paul’s original speechwriter.) Moving into the present, Gary North is co-author, along with Neo-confederate Thomas Woods, of the newly released Ron Paul Christian homeschooling curriculum.

In short, Ron Paul and Gary North are very, very close. That’s notable since Gary North is one of the top theorists and strategists of the Christian Reconstructionism movement, which Ron Paul has long been aligned with and aims to impose biblical law (“theonomy”) and eliminate many of the current functions and institutions of the federal government.

Holy fuck, please tell me I’m just being paranoid over this. The fact that Paul endorsed Cruz, the key to the shutdown/default scenario, makes me worried.

Shutting down the government is a way for them to “show how little the government does”, I know, and that fits in with the whole “roll it back to 1791” plan. But have these tools considered the world’s economy is now liked to America’s?

Pfffft, why do I even consider it. Once the Dominionists seize power of the most powerful country in the world, they can start a new Crusade to “restore world order”.

I’m just being paranoid, right?

BTW – Gary North is one of the yahoos who’s spent years doing the “the NWO will use a massive national crisis to impose UN Communist control over America” bullshit. Perhaps they’ve decided it could work FOR them, as well?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/ap-gfk-poll-republicans-get-most-blame-for-shutdown-tea-party-is-a-big-and-divisive-factor/2013/10/09/a6631cc4-30b4-11e3-9ddd-bdd3022f66ee_story.html

Overall, 62 percent mainly blamed Republicans for the shutdown. About half said Obama or the Democrats in Congress bear much responsibility.

Worse. Republican. Polling. Ever

Joyner, at Helmut’s Huffpo link: “We’re headed for serious tyranny.” He just forgot to say Hallelujah! These guys called folks who even raised an eyebrow at our rush to bomb Iraq on lies “traitors” and now they’re asking for a military coup to install a tyrannical theocracy because of how much they loooove the Republic?!!

America is over. Welcome to Americorp, a division of Koch Industries.

Also from the HuffPo link, “We made our point very clear…Christian soldiers and airmen have the right to express their faith and to maintain deeply held religious convictions in every area including homosexuality and homosexual marriage.” I.e. we have the right to discriminate against anyone, and no one has the right to disagree. Why, these guys might be even more tolerant than the Great Mustache himself!

Yep, this proves that there’s a pentagram underneath the rug of the Oval Office.

Matt said,

October 9, 2013 at 14:55 (kill)

@Helmut – worth reading, from Sinclair Lewis in 1935:

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html

Thanks for the link, I knew of the book, but I hadn’t gotten around to reading it yet.

Helmut Montreme:

It’s a good read, it should be required reading in every high school in America, even though the politics of the time require a little more explanation nowadays than when it first came out.

Joyner, at Helmut’s Huffpo link: “We’re headed for serious tyranny.” He just forgot to say Hallelujah! These guys called folks who even raised an eyebrow at our rush to bomb Iraq on lies “traitors” and now they’re asking for a military coup to install a tyrannical theocracy because of how much they loooove the Republic?!!

You’d think that, having heard of the civil war, that they’d be a little less excited for some brave general to raise the flag of rebellion and lead his forces across the Potomac like some latter day Caesar crossing the Rubicon.

even though the politics of the time require a little more explanation nowadays than when it first came out.

You know, I hadn’t thought about it before, but it’s a really good display of how socialist populism was considered a good (and uncontroversial) thing at the time.

As to Catholics complaining about the shutdown affecting government-paid clergy on government-owned property… they were perfectly OK with a shutdown if their demands weren’t met (PDF)

Goddamnit, I’m sitting here at work in a festering stew of resentment and rudeness, frustrated as all hell, and I come here to talk snark and there’s nothing but the Dennis Show on.

Fucking take it to IRC or something, kids.

Jesus screaming Christ on a stick with mustard and capers, can I just have ONE fucking place I can be where I don’t have to listen to mental twelve-year-olds piss and whine and yell?

Who cares whether private charities or government “coersion” feeds hungry people? The point is it gets done.

Who cares whether private charities or government “coersion” feeds hungry people? The point is it gets done.

Except for the fact that it DIDN’T EVER get done on private charity alone. Of course, no one’s stopping them from proving they can get it done now, so why don’t they? Because what they care about is not feeding the hungry, it’s about they control they gain by being the gatekeepers. If the government makes sure the “undeserving/impenitent” don’t starve to death, that coercive power is dramatically lessened.

Who cares whether private charities or government “coersion” feeds hungry people? The point is it gets done.

Short answer: the conservative christian right.
Longer answer: If the poor aren’t as emaciated as the most heartbreaking victims of an african famine, and if they aren’t getting easily prevented illnesses linked to malnourishment like scurvy or rickets or just falling down dead in the street, they aren’t really hungry, they’re just moochers. Also it’s not fair that hungry people can get fed by charities that don’t subject them to relentless evangelism in return for nearly expired canned goods.

It’s a good read, it should be required reading in every high school in America, even though the politics of the time require a little more explanation nowadays than when it first came out.

Actually, there are several of Lewis’ other novels I’d teach in HS before “It Can’t Happen Here.” Even Lewis publicly said, shortly after it was published, that it wasn’t his best work.

Lewis obviously set out to translate the Nazi phenomenon into an American idiom, like Minute Men = MM = SS. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Also, there are dollops of homophobia:

They had found that Clarence wore yellow silk underwear, and the M.M.’s from factory and plowland laughed–particularly one broad young inspector who was rumored to have a passionate friendship with a battalion-leader from Nashua who was fat, eyeglassed, and high-pitched of voice.

The inspiration for this is clear—several high-ranking Nazi leaders like Ernst Rohm were gay (and were purged by Hitler partly for that reason)—but it makes a modern reader squirm.

Not that it’s a bad book or that it shouldn’t be taught. But I remember reading it in high school—it was my first Lewis book, and it almost turned me off the man completely. Luckily I eventually found my way to “Main Street,” “Elmer Gantry” and others.

(Teaching “Elmer Gantry” in high school would make wingnut heads explode 10 times more intensely than “ICHH.”)

You can’t go home again. Another book from the era that you naively envision as idyllic and non-controversial.

DON’T fucking give me a history lecture, sunshine.

And I leave periodically because I have other things to do and other interests, unlike you seem.

In short, bite me.

Wow, nice trash removal, guys.

Have I mentioned how much I like it here when it’s NOT the Dennis Show?

Who cares whether private charities or government “coersion” feeds hungry people? The point is it gets done.

Because a government program is impartial, for the most part, while otherwise you have to hope that some pastor deems you worthy to live.

you have to hope that some pastor deems you worthy to live.

Considering the way so many Christian religious figures as of late express real Christian virtues, that’s a test I’d rather not risk.

Bitter Scribe, did it make you squirm when bbkf and P_UNEy and a whole host of other regulars described Amy Alkon as ‘Arnold Alkon’ and made fun of her likeness to transgendered persons?

Did that almost turn you off to this blog?

oh for feck’s sake! that was two years ago…and yes, i referred to her as ‘arnold’…and yes, i did it to ‘fit in’ with the rest of the posters…and yes, it’s reprehensible and yes, i’m sorry i wrote those words…but then something happened…somebody came in and pointed out how hurtful those insults were/are…some of us agreed and backed off some of us didn’t…i realized that for trans people, referring to her as arnold is just as upsetting as indiscriminate use of ‘retard’, so i quit doing it…

it’s called maturing…something you and da haven’t figured out how to accomplish yet…and mature people realize that sometimes nice people say awful things and they don’t take every single syllable literally…just grow up already…

Diaper change needed on Aisle 5.

He says this kind of shit all the time and he’s in neck deep with like minded groups like the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers.

I’m not claiming they can succeed, I’m just saying that some of the more evangelical or libertarian Tea Party congressmen may credibly be suspected of having a (terrible) back up plan, and aren’t negotiating in good faith re: the budget crisis.

Olive skinned Sharia BAD

Pasty fat white skin Sharia GOOD.

Even Lewis publicly said, shortly after it was published, that it wasn’t his best work.

I agree that they aren’t up to his most famous works from the ’20s.

I would have Babbitt taught first, with Main Street a close second. Like I said, it’s a good read. Reading the latter when I was in my early teens made me realize there plenty of Gopher Prairies around the country. I discovered him when I started reading Mencken around then as well.

(disproportionately women, something these guys probably look on as a feature, not a bug), often after a (short) lifetime of hard, poorly-paid work.

ISN’T IT HARD FUCKING ENOUGH FOR A BRO TO GET SOME POONTANG?

I would have Babbitt taught first, with Main Street a close second. Like I said, it’s a good read. Reading the latter when I was in my early teens made me realize there plenty of Gopher Prairies around the country. I discovered him when I started reading Mencken around then as well.

i browsed some lewis yesterday at one of the local thrift shops…you can tell it’s a college town by the books that are donated…i didn’t buy any but just might starting with babbitt…i did finally pick up a copy of ‘giants in the earth’ though…

It’s startling how many people call themselves Christians and shill for reactionary fascists. I have no clue how they grew up so devoid of thinking and reading skills.

Oh wait–they’ve been trying to gut primary education and hand it over to churches since Eisenhower. Ok, I see how it is.

Because a government program is impartial, for the most part, while otherwise you have to hope that some pastor deems you worthy to live.

Sure we’ll feed you! Just sit here for an hour listening to our propaganda first, then say “praise Jesus” and we’ll give you some food.

i didn’t buy any but just might starting with babbitt

“Babbitt” is IMO one of his most profound works, in terms of establishing an American archetype. But “Elmer Gantry” is his most fun to read, at least if you hate Pat Robertson-style religious hypocrisy.

Except for some Swedish immigrants who settled in Kingsburg, about an hour north of me, there really weren’t that many settlers from Scandinavia who decided to settle in the San Valley other than on an individual basis. Probably didn’t want to end up pining for the fjords in a snowless landscape.

Sure we’ll feed you! Just sit here for an hour listening to our propaganda first, then say “praise Jesus” and we’ll give you some food.

George Bernard Shaw slagged on god-botherers who seek to convert a hungry man with a piece of bread in one hand and a Bible in the other.

For a great description of what this is like from the hungry man’s POV, see “Down and Out in Paris and London” by George Orwell. When one pastor treats the beggars with particular dignity, their immediate reaction is, “Well, he’ll never be a bishop”—a great compliment.

San Joaquin Valley

If you’re feeling suicidal and want to get more depressed ‘Giants In The Earth’ is a great read.

I initially misread “Sinclair Lewis” as “C.S. Lewis” and was mightily confused by all the praise for his writings.

If you’re feeling suicidal and want to get more depressed ‘Giants In The Earth’ is a great read.

so i shouldn’t take it with me when we head out to the west river/middle of nowhere next month? good tip…

I initially misread “Sinclair Lewis” as “C.S. Lewis” and was mightily confused by all the praise for his writings.

ha…i do the same thing with lewis carroll…

“Down and Out in Paris and London” by George Orwell

Damn good book in the first place; says a lot about the experience of being poor, as well as the people who are deal with it.

The guy who draws chalk art for “a living” and yet knows all about astronomy is a hoot.

I confuse Sinclair Lewis and Upton Sinclair, which I think is how I ended up reading “King Coal” by Sinclair.

I initially misread “Sinclair Lewis” as “C.S. Lewis” and was mightily confused by all the praise for his writings.

That’s funny. He usually gets confused with Upton Sinclair.

Before you ahem me, Pere, I was late with my comment because I was adding something about Lewis Carroll and C.S. Lewis, then deleted it because I realized I don’t really like either one of them.

Why should I *ahem* when mistaking one author for another is a personal thing?

OT, but I gotta brag to someone: An article I was proofing this morning had a drop quote from Ayn Rand, and I killed it. It was for a legitimate reason: The space was needed for copy. But it felt sooooo good pasting that big Acrobat “DELETE” note over Ayn’s name.

Why should I *ahem* when mistaking one author for another is a personal thing?

I think it’s more a case of you guys owing each other a beverage of your choice.

‘Scuse me – gotta feed the cats. One if them just reached up and tried to snag my arm – just for getting my attention purposes, I tell myself.

OT, but I gotta brag to someone: An article I was proofing this morning had a drop quote from Ayn Rand, and I killed it. It was for a legitimate reason: The space was needed for copy. But it felt sooooo good pasting that big Acrobat “DELETE” note over Ayn’s name.

There’s something therapeutic about being legitimately able to stomp on foolishness.

Kind of like popping bubble wrap.

Re: the picture up top – I like to think Mr. Farrah specifically dyes his moustache to match his sweaters.

Bitter Scribe said,

October 9, 2013 at 19:53

Thanks for that. This gig has its sucky moments, but I appreciate the reminder that I am 100% safe from having an Ayn Rand quote show up in the copy around here.

Jesus screaming Christ on a stick with mustard and capers, can I just have ONE fucking place I can be where I don’t have to listen to mental twelve-year-olds piss and whine and yell?

Allow me to offer some lovely dinosaur PENIS as a distraction.

Seein’ as how gubmint interference largely prevented thalidomide babies in the USA …

Yeah, just ask your friends at GM and Chrysler about that.

“My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.”

“We want to reduce the size of government in half as a percentage of GNP over the next 25 years. We want to reduce the number of people depending on government so there is more autonomy and more free citizens.”

Issues of law being decided by an elected representative body is tyranny!

Issues of law being decided by an elected representative body is tyranny!

Sadly, you’ll probably find people who agree with that. Especially if it wasn’t “their side” that won. Of course.

C’mon, without government (funding) John Lilly wouldn’t have been able to put Margaret Howe in a dolphon tank to give them handjobs and LSD. So there’s that.

dolphin also too.

More and more, I find myself hoping that Certain Members of SCOTUS would giveoup their really bad “human” disguises* and just go back to wherever it is they came from.

*the arrogant anger shows through too much on one, while the plastic geniality of another just isn’t believable

18 USC § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

Discuss.

Just for the record, I don’t claim that GM had anything to do w/ thalidomide babies.
It was obviously the Bilderberg Group that’s to blame.

Especially if it wasn’t “their side” that won. Of course.

ONLY if. If they wrote tyrannical law making it mandatory that all persons over the age of 16 shall carry a firearm at all times, they wouldn’t call that tyranny at all.

Discuss.

They’re too busy arresting Democrats for protesting to arrest teabaggers for their seditious conspiracy.

or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,

“By force” being the operative phrase here I think. They left themselves an out.

“By force” being the operative phrase here I think. They left themselves an out.

why, they would just be practicing their religious freedoms…

OBOY OBOY OBOY The Whiskey Library is now open!

Taxation = theft blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Also – Hannity or Beck arguing for “higher wages”? I laugh at you, sir.

The Whiskey Library is now open!

Why wasn’t that open last weekend when I was up there for the marathon!?! WHY?

The first time I sae a picture of John Roberts’ bland, smiling face, I realized I would not be terribly surprised if he opened his jaw and swallowed a rodent whole.

Why wasn’t that open last weekend when I was up there for the marathon!?! WHY?

I think your question answers itself.

I think your question answers itself.

I figured the “for celebrating after the marathon” was automatically implied.

which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Wasn’t that a buddy cop film with Ice-T and Carrot Top?

the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force

We’re going back to 2002?

I figured the “for celebrating after the marathon” was automatically implied.

That’s what I assumed.

Again, though …

The first time I sae a picture of John Roberts’ bland, smiling face, I realized I would not be terribly surprised if he opened his jaw and swallowed a rodent whole.

Appropriate.

Appropriate.

Good, but I was thinking more of this.

The Whiskey Library is now open!

How high are their overdue charges?

Update: I was wrong, Brute Force was a prison movie starring Burt Lancaster and Hume Cronyn from the late ’40s.

Still don’t know what it has to do with the government. Oh, well.

We can dismiss those ideologues and “true believers” in capitalism who falsely portray it as the fountain of all human abundance and technological advance. Ayn Rand and her disciples are the most egregious in this regard, totally falsifying human history.

American capitalists DID starve and murder workers, as recorded by such honest social investigators as Upton Sinclair, Ida Tarbell, and Lincoln Steffens. Capitalism DOES NOT hold integrity and trustworthiness as cardinal virtues. Under capitalism, greed and criminality pay off in the marketplace, thus demanding that men survive not by means of virtue, but by means of vice.

America’s “abundance” has always been the exclusive possession of the capitalist class–not the working class. Even when some amount of the “abundance” was shared with workers–as during the 1950’s in America and Europe–this is only a temporary situation and soon devolves to the impoverishment of workers beginning in the 1960’s and continuing into the Second Great Depression of the early twenty-first century.

Well, whiskey libraries are all very fine and all, but what I’d really like to visit is a reefer library…

I initially misread “Sinclair Lewis” as “C.S. Lewis” and was mightily confused by all the praise for his writings.

I initially misread it* as Claire Sinclair and was both confused and aroused.

*Not really.

Smut, its not a lending library in that sense, only in the traditional sense that you don’t buy beer at a pub.

The Goddamn Spearhafoc, who is not The Goddamn Batman, I swear

FTFY.

FTFY.

I refuse to dignify latter-day Frank Miller.

Smut doesn’t want to buy that whisky he just wants to borrow it.

not the Goddamn Batman

Well, who is?

Well, who is?

According to one reviewer, the Batman appearing in Miller’s All-Star Batman and Robin was so out of character he must be a homeless man named Crazy Steve who happened to have found a Batman costume in a dumpster.

That’s the problem when one doesn’t understand the nature of the bludgeon one is using, it reveals laziness and arrogance on the part of the would-be critic.

Conservatives are very tolerant folks indeed – for exactly as long as there’s a sufficiently punitive pricetag attached to intolerance.

Farah’s “forum for both sides” kabuki rings hollow in the wake of thousands of long dark blood-soaked years wherein conservative culture was the only game in town – back when those ages’ version of liberals were known by such delightful sobriquets as “Antichrist,” “heretic” & “infidel” … & those names were a literal license to kill. Ask Cathars or European pagans or Communards about “tolerant” conservatism. That Joe & Mary’s rabble-rousing kid was one such crazy liberal is borne out at least as much by his treatment at the hands of Rome as by his teachings – note that Messiahs were a dime a dozen in Judea right then, but since their schticks were either orthodox or too surreal to gain mass appeal, none of the rest of them were prone to get the Human Popsicle Treatment.

They’ve been so desperate to redefine abortion as ZOMG LIBERAL FASCIST WOMB-BABBY HOLOCAUST because it’s basically tautological that peacenik DFHs just don’t do genocidal campaigns of eliminationist butchery … & that very non-trivial distinction speaks volumes as to just who really occupies the moral high ground.

note that Messiahs were a dime a dozen in Judea right then, but since their schticks were either orthodox or too surreal to gain mass appeal, none of the rest of them were prone to get the Human Popsicle Treatment.

If you thought that and weren’t just exaggerating to make a point you’d be wrong–bar Kochba and others went from the ‘interior struggle’ to the ‘exterior struggle’ and took on the Romans with armed conflict and from what I understand it was a fairly popular uprising. Of course, the Romans could afford to wait them out… and did. Finally Hadrian got sick of going around and around again and had the lot clamped in irons and marched back to Rome.

Brute Force? All Hail the Fuh King!

I hate to pick on Nazarenes but this make Jesus speak in all languages, in this case Baghdadi Arabic, is distracting from Farah’s obviously talented writing that you keep talking about:
http://jesusfilmmedia.org/video/1_21061-jf-0-0/arabic%2c+iraqi+baghdadi/jesus.

Even Faroese:
http://jesusfilmmedia.org/video/1_4455-jf-0-0/faroese/jesus

I initially misread it* as Claire Sinclair and was both confused and aroused.

Well alrighty then!

I’m not sure who she is but I’m sure I could turn out for her … book … talk

or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,

It’s not sedition if the intended victims are n*ears (see: KKK)

It’s only sedition if the conspirators belong to an unpopular group, however that may be defined at the time (Germans one century, Muslims the next)

several high-ranking Nazi leaders like Ernst Rohm were gay (and were purged by Hitler partly for that reason)

Is that really true? From what I am given to understand the Night of the Long Knives was both about consolidating Hitler’s power within the Nazi party (ie, Roehm represented a separate power base so he was eliminated, it only so happened that he was surprised in bed with a young man, but he was killed because he threatened Hitler’s grip on power) and consolidating power within Germany following the Nazi party’s successful coup. Basically the SA had existed to cause “dis order” (to borrow a phrase from Mayor Daley) which they then “cured” once they were elected by people frightened by the daily street battles between red and scheissbraun. But after the rowdies had rounded up Jews, Socialist leaders, Communists, Jews, Homosexuals, Jews, and dissidents into KZ and put the fear of dog in the German people they were no longer needed and the more “professional” (and more elite, with slicker uniforms) SS was sent in to replace them. For example Dachau was passed after year directly from SA to SS control. Himmler, the SS head became one of the more powerful figures within the Nazi party although he was quite weak in some ways and did not threaten Hitler. The SA was more or less disbanded.

Hitler criminalized homosexuality–why that? Because Germany was in the forefront of expanding human rights for gay people and the Nazis were massive reactionaries. Anyway so they criminalized homosexual behavior and started arrested gay men particularly, though lesbians too. They even threatened comedians who made jokes about married life and made threats against anyone who opposed their fascist/racist pump out zillions of aryan babies/cannon fodder plan.

there’s more but this is already tl;dr

I can hear it now-

“Bring back my wife………………….please!”

All Hail the Fuh King!

I believe that’s spelled “phô” with a squiggle over the O.

Well alrighty then!

I’m not sure who she is but I’m sure I could turn out for her … book … talk

She’s a glamour model (NSFW) and has a Vegas show called Pin Up.

She’s basically a living Vargas painting and she’s also awesome. Mega crush.

She’s basically a living Vargas painting and she’s also awesome.

Impressive, bordering on spectacular.

She’s basically a living Vargas painting and she’s also awesome.

More Dribben, I thought.

question: if the deficit, as the gop now claims, is no biggie, then why have they spent the last 5 years screaming about it?

They don’t dare acknowledge that the deficit has dropped since Obama took office, nor did they scream about it when GWB and company ran them up in the last decade when they were in office.

This has conveniently gone down the memory hole:

In November of 2002, when O’Neill(the Secretary of the Treasury at the time), a “deficit hawk”, tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits… expected to top $500 billion that fiscal year alone… posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off, saying, “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.”

question: if the deficit, as the gop now claims, is no biggie, then why have they spent the last 5 years screaming about it?

It’s a lever, like God.

I suspect the that one of the goals of the shutdown is to drive the deficit higher. Because the GOP know they can lay that blame at Obama’s feet.

note that Messiahs were a dime a dozen in Judea right then, but since their schticks were either orthodox or too surreal to gain mass appeal, none of the rest of them were prone to get the Human Popsicle Treatment.

Perhaps because they actually existed, unlike the Jewish superhero. .

There are several mentions of Jesus outside of the New Testament:

The Testimonium Flavianum (meaning the testimony of Flavius [Josephus]) is the name given to the passage found in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities in which Josephus describes the condemnation and crucifixion of Jesus at the hands of the Roman authorities.[133][134] Scholars have differing opinions on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in the passage to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate.[119][134] The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation.[122][134][135][136][137] Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear,[138] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.[137]

The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as the Jewish War, written twenty years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence, such as that the Antiquities covers a longer time period and that during the twenty year gap between the writing of the Jewish Wars (c. 70 AD) and Antiquities (after 90 AD) Christians had become more important in Rome and were hence given attention in the Antiquities.[139]

A number of variations exist between the statements by Josephus regarding the deaths of James and the New Testament accounts.[140] Scholars generally view these variations as indications that the Josephus passages are not interpolations, because a Christian interpolator would more likely have made them correspond to the Christian traditions.[125][140] Robert Eisenman provides numerous early Christian sources that confirm the Josephus testament, that James was the brother of Jesus.[141]

Scholars generally consider Tacitus’s reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source about early Christianity that is in unison with other historical records.[101][145][146][147][148] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now “firmly established” that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[149] Although a few scholars question the passage given that Tacitus was born 25 years after Jesus’s death, the majority of scholars consider it genuine.[101] William L. Portier has stated that the consistency in the references by Tacitus, Josephus and the letters to Emperor Trajan by Pliny the Younger reaffirm the validity of all three accounts.[148]

One of the interesting things about being a mod is that I get to see all the comments (that’s also the worst thing, but never mind that). This includes the LASTing battle between actor212 and Enraged Bull Limpet, and, for some reason, random comments completely misunderstanding this 8-year old post. That results in mango-gathering without even having to leave the boat:

This is the worst thing I have ever read. I am not homosexual, but I belive truly in equal rights. Even after being raised in a Catholic home against homosexuals and bisexuals, or anything other than heterosexuality, I found that deep down inside I knew what was right. It’s not OK to mock ones sexuality. I also grew up with many of these traits. I never wanted to roughhouse, I would cry often, I hated sports and I would often play with girls more than boys. I was often teased by my fellow classmates A LOT but I’m not gay. I like girls. This is really the worst thing I have ever read. There is nothing wrong with Homosexuals. Being gay is less of a choice than being black, or asian. So please, I ask you, rethink your hole approach. Because if you are going into life with fists flying against anything that isn’t you, then you better get off this earth.

I appreciate what they’re getting at, but, uh… yeah.

So please, I ask you, rethink your hole approach.

0_0

0_0

IK,R?

random comments completely misunderstanding this 8-year old post.

That thread is fkn hilarious!

random comments completely misunderstanding this 8-year old post.

Thank God we never get that anymore.

This includes the LASTing battle between actor212 and Enraged Bull Limpet,

ya gotta give kudos to actor for his lasting abilities…dude never gives up…

That thread is fkn hilarious!

i’m feeling all bruce springsteen-ey right now…

There are no contemporaneous mentions of “Jesus.” None. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Also, http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2012/04/published-in-faith-and-philosophy-2011.html

Also too,

We have no independent reports that the veil of the temple was torn in two at Jesus’ death (Mark 15:38), nor that darkness came “over the whole land” from noon until three in the afternoon (Mark 15:33) nor that “the sun stopped shining” (Luke 23:45), nor that there was an earthquake at his death (Matthew 27:51, 54), with another “violent” one the day he arose from the grave (Matthew 28:2), nor that the saints were raised to life at his death, then waited until Jesus arose before walking out of their own opened tombs, who subsequently “went into the holy city and appeared to many people” and were never heard from again (Matthew 27:52-53). Could these events really have occurred without subsequent Roman or Rabbinic literature or Philo or Josephus mentioning them? These silences are telling.

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for “lack of evidence to the contrary”), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Given the paucity of sources about the history of Palestine during that time period, the lack of accounts proves nothing, there may have been accounts that were either destroyed by time or have yet to be discovered.

Like historical legends never accrued around a historical figure years and/or decades after said historical figure passed away.

The Koine Greek version of the Old Testament was called the Septuagint because supposedly 70 scholars all translated it from the Hebrew and came out with the same text word for word. By Pupenius’ logic, the impossibility of this outcome means the translation never took place at all.

By Pupenius’ logic, the impossibility of this outcome means the translation never took place at all.

Knowing nothing of the actual incident, that 70 scholars independently (implied) came out with the same word-for-word translation is a bit suspicious. Sounds like the kind if story people tell to make something more impressive. Or, I suppose, the scholars all came out of the same strict “shop.”

Unlike Pupienus, I’m prepared to believe there was an actual, historical Jesus. Like Pupienus, though, I’m suspicious of the signs and portents reported. I also don’t believe the virgin birth schtick, as I think that’s more a sign of someone either squicking at ladyparts or wanting to make teh wimminz less important.

Given the paucity of sources about the history of Palestine during that time period, the lack of accounts proves nothing, there may have been accounts that were either destroyed by time or have yet to be discovered.

Awesome! The lack of evidence that I am a seventeen foot tall unicorn proves nothing! Neigh, motherfuckers! Neigh!

Also too and such as the wiki pages for Josephus on Jeebus and also the historicity of J__ page are … minimally objective. They cite theologians, not historians. They maker lots of assertion s like “most scholars agree” when that is most defnitely not the case. If you really want to get into it read Bart Ehrman (who thinks there was an historical Jesus) and Richard Carrier (who is pretty darn sure there wasn’t).

Preposterous OBS!!! We have very strong evidence that you are,in fact, a 16′ 11” tall unicorn.

The pithy way of putting it is “lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.” But anyway, the times are fairly well documented so it ismroe than reasonable to wonder how it can be that a most polarizing figure caused a melee in the temple, performed miracles, lead to Pontius acting TOTALLY out of character and then for some strange reason getting removed from the crucifix – the bodies generally were kept up there as a warning – that there is NOT ONE MENTION ANYWHERE of anything even remotely akin to those events. So no, it isn’t the “argument from ignorance.” That’s just whining from the presuppositive folks who just can’t accept that they’re delusional.

Now that I think about it, it might have been my unrelenting twitting of actor212 on this very matter that helped drive him forever away. If I have the same effect on DA I shall think it a good thing.

Bah, who cares. I’m pretty sure Master Li Kao is not real, but one could do worse than to study his character(flawed) and doings.

Impressive, bordering on spectacular.

I do find myself surprised at the lack of a reference regarding the visitation of a bunk, though mayhaps there was not enough time… 😉
…

I care. I don’t think it;s a good idea to promote belief in magic. It would be a very good thing if no one believed in sky fairies and shit.

Allow me to offer some lovely dinosaur PENIS as a distraction.

I notice that there are TWO notional ‘authors’…one for the cheesecake covers, and the one who writes the ‘books’.

I am s-o-o far behind on this thread….

18 USC § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy

Thanx, Pup! Imma gonna copy that.

Should the husband go to the police, Rabbi Epstein said, it was important that there were no obvious signs of injury. Without such physical evidence, Rabbi Epstein said, the police were unlikely to probe too deeply into the affairs of the Orthodox Jewish community, which can appear impenetrable to outsiders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/nyregion/rabbis-accused-in-kidnapping-plot-to-force-men-to-grant-divorces.html?hp&_r=1&

Well, whiskey libraries are all very fine and all, but what I’d really like to visit is a reefer library…

This.

First of all, I don’t want to criticize Sadly No in any way. After all, without you, I wouldn’t be selling half of the copies of You’re Not the Kinda Ho (That Santa had in Mind) on iTunes and Amazon these days, and I’d be forced to have a day job.

That being said, I think that offering commentary (satire, or otherwise) on anything smelling of politics, with the hope that it will change anything, is a waste of time. Politics are poison—period. Both parties suck, because of their political nature. Music is the answer, not politics. My motto is still Why can’t we all just get a song.

The honorable Sandwich’s concerns have been duly noted.

We return you to your regularly scheduled programming…
…

Now that I think about it, it might have been my unrelenting twitting of actor212 on this very matter that helped drive him forever away.

Not away forever. The LAST thread is one on which the premise is that someone gets the last word and can he leave THAT alone?

BLT without a song link is like a day without sunshine.

Actually that should have read: “The Honorable Sandwich’s concerns…”

Apologies all around…
…

I’m pretty sure Master Li Kao is not real

Preposterous! I will vouch in person for his existence and for his illustrious career.
Ask my mate Kai Lung if my own reputation isn’t good enough..

You need special rabbis who are going to take this thing and see it through to the end

I want this line in a movie. Make it so.

Substance McGravitas, I would be happy to offer a link, but the really passionate fans find a way to find me, and my now apolitical music (yes, I’ve turned over a new leaf). It would be an insult to their intelligence to make things too easy for them. And, the addition of a link of that nature could gratuitously derail a perfectly intact conversation. I’m not above doing that, but, so far, I’ve been able to resist the temptation. Apologies accepted Provider…

My Manwich!

I’m scared to open that link, Spearhafoc, even though it’s not Halloween yet, and it’s not April Fool’s Day.

It’s just a Futurama clip.

Lack of bunk reference is not evidence of lack of bunk.

If I have the same effect on DA I shall think it a good thing.

That’s pretty cold, Pup.

Btw, I skimmed the Law piece–but those parts I did read, I read carefully–and the logic is totes impressive.

I’ve been backing away from Christianity; When I registered with the NM VA, I changed my VA identity to ‘No Preference’. Part of the reason was the reasoning of multiple articulate SN commentators. I doubt I’ll ever be a full-bore atheist, for I’m unwilling to say with absolute certainty that there is NOTHING beyond the logic of man or of our science (as we understand it).

Anyway, this is intended as a positive and complimentary comment for you, OBS, and other strongly atheist commentators. You have had an effect over the years. Also my uncompromisingly atheist brother.

Historians believe there was a historic Jesus, Pup, not just theologians, from the RationalWiki:

Historians focusing on this era generally accept that there was likely an individual named Jesus who lived in Palestine roughly two millennia ago, had a very small following of people studying his views, was killed by the government, and whose life became pivotal to some of the world’s largest religions. Beyond this, however, there is no evidence over the accuracy of any of the descriptions of his life, as described in the Bible or as understood by his believers. A small minority, past[1] and present[2] believe there is insufficient justification to assume any individual human seed for the stories, representing an extreme in the other end of belief.

So you’re in a small minority, nothing wrong with that. One can believe that someone preached some of the stuff that is attributed to Jesus without believing the Virgin Birth and the the rest of the stuff about miracles, etc.

If I have the same effect on DA I shall think it a good thing.

You can go f*ck yourself with a rusty chainsaw blade before that happens.

Link:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ

Historians focusing on this era generally accept that there was likely an individual…

That’s some rock-solid evidence right there.

This historian is content in the minority, as on so many things.

OBS, I didn’t say it was rock-solid evidence, but as you may know if you have more than two brain cells working together, it isn’t unusual for historians to have a majority consensus about a given bit of historyand/or person along with some who hold to a dissenting minority opinion.

Yeah, it’s so fucking important that I agree with some of the assholes around here about the “non-existence” of Jesus. Gimme a break, or go suck goat cock.

Yeah, it’s so fucking important that I agree with some of the assholes around here about the “non-existence” of Jesus. Gimme a break, or go suck goat cock.

Aww, did the widdle feefees get hurt? Boohoo.

Protip: Nobody gives a shit what you agree with.

I doubt I’ll ever be a full-bore atheist, for I’m unwilling to say with absolute certainty that there is NOTHING beyond the logic of man or of our science

Atheism doesn’t require absolute certainty, though some may have it. It often just means one finds there isn’t the requisite supporting evidence for such extraordinary claims, or that the system is logically contradictory, etc.

Nobody gives a shit what you agree with.

The existence of Pups comments in this thread negates your protip, as does the existence of said protip.

May you drown in a vat of Brew 102.

The existence of Pups comments in this thread negates your protip, as does the existence of said protip.

OK, fine, I don’t care what you think. Pup can speak for himself.

The existence of Pups comments in this thread negates your protip, as does the existence of said protip.

Responses indicate caring, huh?

May you drown in a vat of Brew 102.

You are a really charming fellow. I bet you’re a blast at parties.

Something that might entertain some of you, though I would be foolish to expect all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55c75tVA6kM

I get a case of the giggles every time I see this example of world class clowning perpetrated upon their peers by the second and fourth picks in this years NBA draft.
…

doubt I’ll ever be a full-bore atheist, for I’m unwilling to say with absolute certainty that there is NOTHING beyond the logic of man or of our science (as we understand it).

This an excellent opportunity to clear up a common misconception. Atheists do not necessarily deny the existence of god(s). An atheist, by definition, just doesn’t believe in a god or gods. As a mathematician (not professianAlly but I DO have a math degree) and dilettante rhetorician I will be the first to say that some negatives can’t be proven. I can’t prove there is no god. I can however state with complete certainty that certain specific gods definitely don’t exist. Hell, one of the biggest challenges we face when “debating” with theists is to get them to say EXACTLY what god is – what, and be precise please, are the specific attributes of the god whose existence you are insisting upon.

Now then, we militant anti-atheist types categorize positions as
Agnostic atheism – I don’t know if there is no god but I don’t believe in any.

Gnostic atheism – I know there are no gods

Agnosticism (strong) I don’t know and I don’t care

Agnosticism (mild) – we can’t know for sure so whatever floats your boat is hunky dory.

Both parties suck, because of their political nature.

No, they both suck – but for very different reasons.

Dems suck because they’re constant status-quo advocates and friends of corporate interests; they’re willing to twiddle some facets here and there to make life less awful for the have-nots, but it’s not as if they’ll go out of their way to make trouble.

And the GOP, of course, has simply been willingly hijacked by batshittery of the purest sort, and will be lucky if they survive the next few years.

DA, [citation needed]. That is all

Moving rapidly on, I was blindsided by how time flies when we’re having fun.
It’s strawberry time down here and time for my annual discussion on lusciousness of said berry with the Major. Buying this weekend, Major – Yes !
So, then I realised that this is the third time that we have had this conversation, meaning he and I have shared in the commentariat for three years.
Gobsmacked, I was ! at how unnoticed the years have flitted by. Why, it was only yesterday that …../ devolves into crone-type mumble.

Suez – color me jelly. And enjoy the streebleberries.

Ever notice that a lot of the early Christians lived in Alexandria, Egypt?

there was a reason for that… The whole Jesus myth was based upon Egyptian mythology…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread290806/pg1

Here’s a citation, all you had to do was ask politely:

“We do know some things about the historical Jesus — less than some Christians think, but more than some skeptics think. Though a few books have recently argued that Jesus never existed, the evidence that he did is persuasive to the vast majority of scholars, whether Christian or non-Christian,” said Marcus Borg, a retired professor of religion and culture at Oregon State University and current fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of preeminent academics that debate the factuality of Jesus’ life as portrayed in the Bible.

I’m sorry that I wished you to drown in a vat of Brew 102, OBS.

It should’ve been Brown Derby.

Some guy, I’ve always had the theory that the disappearance of the ‘traditional’ Egyptian religion and the continuing rise of Christianity around the 4th Cent C.E. were related.

Substance, Pup declared that he’d like to discontinue commenting on this site, which isn’t his decision to make. I’d say that’s a kind of negative caring, but if you have anything substantial to add, that would be interesting, and unexpected.

Madonna and child with Isis and Horus is a funny image.

Substance, Pup declared

Not at all the point, cowboi.

I didn’t read it, Some Guy. I have a hard time trusting anything from AboveTopSecret. It’s where I do a significant portion of my research for my Alien Series.

Did you hear about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac?

He’d lie awake all night wondering if there really is a dog.

I don’t really have a problem with the existence of a historical Jesus. Obviously whatever Jesus there was can’t have been too important a person if he didn’t show up anywhere but in religious writing, which is fair enough. Myths grow out of nearly nothing, and I think the “nearly” is more parsimonious than the nothing.

Now then, we militant anti-atheist types categorize positions as

I go with the argument that even *having* a term to describe one’s lack of interest in a topic already concedes too much about its validity or importance.

Q. Are you an atheist?
A. I guess I am, now that you asked.

I am also an atheist.

Wait. Are we seriously arguing about the existence of Jesus? I mean seriously?

I mean is this a whole “well maybe he didn’t walk on water or feed the multitudes with a couple fish tacos but there totes was some Jesus dude” thing? Because what would be the point? Do I believe that there was some dude a couple thousand years ago named Jesus? Sure, that seems reasonable. Do I believe that Romans killed a bunch of folks by nailing ’em to trees? There’s some pretty solid evidence of that. Big effng deal.

The Jesus of the Bible is totally fiction. The Pauline epistles were not written by Paul despite his hoarding of the copyrights. And even they date from a couple decades post “cruciFiction” – at earliest. So even with the generous assumption of some Jesus-like Jesus, our closest stories of him are probably as accurate as current hagiographies of Reagan.

Furthermore, if there’s something which our grate intarweebls has brought to us it is the expertise to see and understand the Gospels for what they really are. I mean really – Jesus? Has there ever been a moar obvious Mary Sue?

I mean is this a whole “well maybe he didn’t walk on water or feed the multitudes with a couple fish tacos but there totes was some Jesus dude” thing? Because what would be the point?

To think about the way people come to believe things.

Sadly, self-appointed Messiahs don’t spend nearly enough time trying to walk on water.

Mmmm, fish tacos.

Here’s a citation, all you had to do was ask politely:
“We do know some things about the historical Jesus

That’s a weird methodology they’re following at that there Jesus Seminar. “Let’s gloss over the parts of the New Testyment that are obviously lies, or obviously contradictory between gospels, and whatever’s left has to be the truth, because the testyment is clearly a reliable source apart from the lies and contradictions.”

To build on tigris’ comparison, it is like claiming to know things about Master Li Kao (and the slight flaw in his character) by taking Bridge of Birds and focusing on the parts that aren’t obviously fictional.

Farah Unbalanced.

Nooz. Hyuck. Nooz.

That’s a weird methodology they’re following at that there Jesus Seminar.

“When you eliminate the impossible, what ever remains, however improbable, is the truth.”

Who said anything about the Jesus Seminar? This is the opinion of two people who have studied the matter for many years, read and understand the languages that the existing manuscripts were written in. And they’re not basing it exclusively on the Biblical material, btw. There’s also the mentions in Josephus, Tactitus, etc, as well as the other, less-known, non-Canonical Gospels like those of Thomas and one concerning the Childhood of Jesus, which aren’t evidence but whose existence tells us something of the times they were written in.

Oh, and by the way, the quake mentioned in the accounts of Jesus’ crucifixtion?

They have found a possible explanation of the event in question:

Quake Reveals Day of Jesus’ Crucifixion

Jesus, as described in the New Testament, was most likely crucified on Friday April 3, 33 A.D.

The latest investigation, reported in the journal International Geology Review, focused on earthquake activity at the Dead Sea, located 13 miles from Jerusalem. The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 27, mentions that an earthquake coincided with the crucifixion:

“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open.”

To analyze earthquake activity in the region, geologist Jefferson Williams of Supersonic Geophysical and colleagues Markus Schwab and Achim Brauer of the German Research Center for Geosciences studied three cores from the beach of the Ein Gedi Spa adjacent to the Dead Sea.

Varves, which are annual layers of deposition in the sediments, reveal that at least two major earthquakes affected the core: a widespread earthquake in 31 B.C. and an early first century seismic event that happened sometime between 26 A.D. and 36 A.D.

The latter period occurred during “the years when Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea and when the earthquake of the Gospel of Matthew is historically constrained,” Williams said.

“The day and date of the crucifixion (Good Friday) are known with a fair degree of precision,” he said. But the year has been in question.

In terms of textual clues to the date of the crucifixion, Williams quoted a Nature paper authored by Colin Humphreys and Graeme Waddington. Williams summarized their work as follows:

All four gospels and Tacitus in Annals (XV,44) agree that the crucifixion occurred when Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea from 26-36 AD.
All four gospels say the crucifixion occurred on a Friday.
All four gospels agree that Jesus died a few hours before the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath (nightfall on a Friday).
The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) indicate that Jesus died before nightfall on the 14th day of Nisan; right before the start of the Passover meal.
John’s gospel differs from the synoptics; apparently indicating that Jesus died before nightfall on the 15th day of Nisan.

When data about the Jewish calendar and astronomical calculations are factored in, a handful of possible dates result, with Friday April 3, 33 A.D. being the best match, according to the researchers.

In terms of the earthquake data alone, Williams and his team acknowledge that the seismic activity associated with the crucifixion could refer to “an earthquake that occurred sometime before or after the crucifixion and was in effect ‘borrowed’ by the author of the Gospel of Matthew, and a local earthquake between 26 and 36 A.D. that was sufficiently energetic to deform the sediments of Ein Gedi but not energetic enough to produce a still extant and extra-biblical historical record.”

I know, close only gets you something with horseshoes, hand grenades, and folk dancing, but it’s rather interesting.

Oh dear.

So, as for this random comment on an 8 year old post:

This is the worst thing I have ever read. I am not homosexual, but I belive truly in equal rights. Even after being raised in a Catholic home against homosexuals and bisexuals, or anything other than heterosexuality, I found that deep down inside I knew what was right. It’s not OK to mock ones sexuality. I also grew up with many of these traits. I never wanted to roughhouse, I would cry often, I hated sports and I would often play with girls more than boys. I was often teased by my fellow classmates A LOT but I’m not gay. I like girls. This is really the worst thing I have ever read. There is nothing wrong with Homosexuals. Being gay is less of a choice than being black, or asian. So please, I ask you, rethink your hole approach. Because if you are going into life with fists flying against anything that isn’t you, then you better get off this earth.

So, this is kind of interesting. Pretty much all the other late comments on the post are pretty close to illiterate. This one, with a few random misspellings, isn’t. It’s pretty coherent, and the author seems to have read the post, based on the references he makes in his comment. So how did he miss the obvious snark? Assuming he isn’t just messing around.

New post

Who said anything about the Jesus Seminar?

I think it was this person who quoted from and linked to a Jesus Seminarist reporting the results of weird Jesus Seminar apologetics-posing-as-skepticism.

He’s part of the Jesus Seminar, but he wasn’t talking about it, (which, AFAIK, deals with which quotes in the Bible were probably really said by the historic Jesus), the subject of the article was the existence of an historical Jesus, which is a different matter. One can agree with all the propositions listed in the article without being dismissive because you know, that retired professor, he’s a participant in the JESUS SEMINAR!!!!

Mooser is already on The Underground Bunker this morning, where they talk about crazy people who believe in doing weird and stupid things under the delusion that they’re doing some sort of good for humanity.

You know, like………….

I didn’t read it, Some Guy. I have a hard time trusting anything from AboveTopSecret.

I just found that website via google and used it because it summarized many of the points from “The Pagan Christ” by Tom Harpur.

Harpur is an excellent writer who used to have a religion column in the Toronto Star. he is a former Anglican priest turned professor of religion.

“The Pagan Christ” examines dozens of similarities between The Jesus myth and the Egyptian myths…

“We do know some things about the historical Jesus — less than some Christians think, but more than some skeptics think […] ” said Marcus Borg

He’s part of the Jesus Seminar, but he wasn’t talking about it,

So the weird methodology is that of Marcus Borg, rather than of the Jesus Seminar? OK. It is still the epistemology of someone who’s starting as a believer, and wants to carry on believing, but doesn’t want the embarrassment of being caught believing in obvious absurdities.

Consider the perspective of someone whose initial position is outside the whole worldview. I’m presented with a narrative in which the crucial events are absurd, or internally contradictory, or obviously retconned to fit in with earlier narratives, or some combination thereof. I have no reason to believe any of the claims made in that narrative, even the minority that are not overtly fictional. External evidence or GTFO, sez I.

“When you eliminate the impossible, what ever remains, however improbable, is the truth.”

The crucial presupposition being made here is that there is some truth present, disguised by the fictions. Why?

Tee hee, looks like SOMEbody forgot to change his nym…

“When you eliminate the impossible, what ever remains, however improbable, is the truth.”

I’d also like to point out this was said by a not impossible and yet still fictional person.

Tee hee, looks like SOMEbody forgot to change his nym…

UNPOSSIBLE

So the weird methodology is that of Marcus Borg, rather than of the Jesus Seminar? OK. It is still the epistemology of someone who’s starting as a believer, and wants to carry on believing, but doesn’t want the embarrassment of being caught believing in obvious absurdities.

Nope, never said that. In fact, he states that it’s believed by scholars, believers and non-believers alike.

Have you ever tried reading for meaning? I highly recommend it.

Oh, and as for the quote? It’s still true, even if Conan Doyle put it as coming from his fictitious creation.

Damn, some people are as dogmatic about their belief as any Christianist. I’m sorry that I don’t have this Jesus thing pinned down and definitely proven for you on this snark blog. My sincere and deepest apologies.