Life is too depressing sometimes
It really is.
Case in point: Mr. Spades reads a Salon article about the conflict between religion and science in Islamic countries. The article’s primary subject, Turkish-American physicist Taner Edis, explicitly argues that Islamic fundamentalism has badly damaged the advancement of science in Islamic countries, particularly science that conflicts with Koranic teachings.
The story’s reporter, Steve Paulson, asks Edis several devil’s advocate questions, such as, “There are some Muslims who talk about the need for an ‘Islamic science’ that’s quite distinct from Western science […] Does it make sense to talk about an Islamic science?” and, “Many historians would disagree with your assessment that what Muslim scholars did during the Golden Age wasn’t real science.” Mr. Spades takes these questions to mean that the interviewer is (I’m not making this up!) a pro-Islamic creationist:
I never thought I’d read such an impassioned defense of Creationism in Salon magazine. But then, I guess I should have realized just how many of their other shibboleths they were willing to jettison if they were found to be in conflict with Multicultural imperatives. Truly eye-opening and jaw-breaking.
Hey, Christian conservatives? You want to win your creationism cases? Start bringing in Muslim creationists. And watch your liberal opponents suddenly finding it much more plausible that God — or, rather, Allah — created the earth, the animals, and humans directly.
Roy pwns Mr. Spades in a typically amusing fashion. Even Eugene Volokh gets in on the act and tells Mr. Spades that it’s unwise to assume that “that each of the interviewer’s questions expresses the interviewer’s personal views.”
Challenged from both the left and the right on his gross misreading of the Salon piece, Mr. Spades responds by saying… well… shit’s about to get real ugly, peoples:
One thing I didn’t mention in my email reply, which I now concede: In fact, the interviewer does not make any sort of statement or argument which is explicitly supportive of a creationism, so long as it’s of an Islamic sort.
That is my gloss on the article, and perhaps an unfair gloss. However, given the rather obvious sympathies the author has for “Islamic science” — obvious to me, at least — I would argue the interviewer is arguing on behalf of a a “science” which incorporates important articles of faith (as well as morality). Perhaps it’s an unfair reading — certainly some readers think so — but I read the interviewer in being open to such ideas, and even arguing in their favor. So long as they’re coming from a privileged nonwestern, nonchristian culture, of course.
This is the sort of thing I simply adore about Mr. Spades and his buddies.
One of the key bonds that holds human society together is our mutual understanding that language is meant to relay messages to each other. And the words that we use in our language, believe it or not, are designed to mean things. When woven together into a sentence, words are able to communicate complex concepts, ideas and emotions.
But Mr. Spades and pals see words solely as tools with which to bludgeon your enemy. As Newt Gingrich once wrote:
[W]e believe that you could have a significant impact on your campaign and the way you communicate if we help a little. That is why we have created this list of words and phrases. This list is prepared so that you might have a directory of words to use in writing literature and mail, in preparing speeches, and in producing electronic media. The words and phrases are powerful. Read them. Memorize as many as possible. And remember that like any tool, these words will not help if they are not used.
And give Gingrich a wee bit of credit: the words that he lists as “positive” words (such as “liberty,” “prosperity,” and “humane”) and “negative” words (“pathetic,” “corruption,” “waste”) do generally conform to the standard connotations that most people give them. Ace, on the other hand, takes a statement such as “Isaac Newton was fascinated by alchemy and astrology” and makes it mean “UP WITH SHARIA LAW! DOWN WITH WESTERN MEDICINE!” It’s embarrassing, sure, but as his misadventures in Bacon and Play Doh Land prove, Ace has long since given up feeling shame.
Watch this next trick:
One Last Point… I find it a point in my favor that the interviewer spends so much time asking, essentially, whether or not a uniquely “Islamic science” can be as good as (if different than) real science. He spends a fair amount of time addressing the fact that Islamic science is woefully behind western science — hardly the sort of thing that could be argued against.
But while he is interested in why this is so, he is eager to offer other explanations for the sorry state of Islamic science other than Islamism itself — colonialism, transitory Muslim governments.
Amazing! The interviewer is asking if there might be more than one cause for the sorry state of science in the Islamic world! He is wondering if the situation might be complicated! Worst of all, he is raising doubts that secular science’s weak standing in Islamic countries might not entirely be the fault of the great Muslamonazi conspiracy to destroy absolutely everything! Egad, what relativistic commie bull is he pushing?
Like I said at the top of the post, life is very, very depressing sometimes, especially if you decide to spend any part of your day reading right-wing blogs. Why have I decided to put myself through this again?
Lemmy of Motorhead should be infomred that this LOLcon is messing with his back catalog.
Messing with it bad. Like, dirty bad.
So long as they’re coming from a privileged nonwestern, nonchristian culture, of course.
I’m trying to think of such a culture. Other than the nonwestern, nonchristian culture in his shorts. I’d guess that’s ‘privileged’, you know, seeing as how he takes it to the gun department twice a week or so for work.
He said…Oh, he didn’t?
Well, she did…What? She didn’t?
Well they are all…I’m sorry, huh? Oh, they aren’t?
Well certainly it’s…hmmm, I guess its not..
Honestly, don’t they ever get tired of looking like buffoons? The solution is so simple. Think for a bit. Talk to people. Don’t start typing until you understand what it is you’re saying and how it relates to the real world around you.
And yet Ace and the malkin thing just keep painting the black tunnel on the brick wall and running headlong into the tunnel THEY MADE.
Ouch.
Lemme just go over here and paint a better tunnel this time…
Acme Punditry, may I help you? What’s that you say? “Beep beep”? I just don’t understand…
mikey
mikey- I know. They’re like that kid in high school that drug dealers would always sell oregano to. Of course, that kid was usually at least bright enough to not buy from them again once he felt his lungs burn. Ace takes a huff of oregano and thinks, “This is high-quality stuff, man!”
Hey, Christian conservatives? You want to win your creationism cases? Start bringing in Muslim creationists. And watch your liberal opponents suddenly finding it much more plausible that God — or, rather, Allah — created the earth, the animals, and humans directly.
I’m certainly not one to quibble with A.O. Spades, Heterosexual, but…
Thank God we don’t have religion infecting our science here. It would probably lead to some crazy bullshit like calling stem cells “snowflake babies” and doctors diagnosing brain dead women by VCR tapes and their gut feelings.
Thank God.
I read that article in Salon early this morning, and even without coffee there was no way I would have come up with Ace’s conclusions. Apparently I am not sufficiently impaired in the logic department. If anything, I noted how islamic creationism is just as nutty as christian creationism, and is based in the same moronic sky god concept. They are so alike that they are nearly mirror images; if I had any sense that the interviewer was pushing a POV, it was to make a point about the similarity between the two.
Now would be a good time for Jeff Goldstein to remind his buddy Ace of the concept of authorial intent. Sometimes it comes in handy.
I thought I had some privileged nonwestern, nonchristian culture in the fridge, but it turned out to be last month’s yoghurt.
How homophobic of you, bradrocket.
How homophobic of the rest of you to think this is a non sequitur.
How homophobic of anyone to read this sentence.
Is this how ace does it?
Oh, and the problem for ace is he thinks 10 words is making a BIG DEAL about something, because he’s only semi-literate.
Like how we’re all freaking out and having conniption fits by pointing and laughing at him.
talk about projection.
rather than the fantasy of liberals tossing all principles by the wayside in favor of the beloved Islam Jihad, it’s conservatives like Ace who see an article in Salon and think “Must Criticize. Must Oppose.” and then try increasingly insane and inane avenues of critique.
[…] Sack. Of. Hammers. […]
That is my gloss on the article, and perhaps an unfair gloss.
It isn’t an unfair gloss, Mr. Playdoh Man. It’s a stupid gloss. It’s a gloss that screams loudly, “I don’t know what the FUCK I’m talking about, but let me tell you about my Pokemans and my Bigotries!” A gloss, applied liberally* and daily as folks like the Baconator do, will keep the stupid fresh and crisp for years, keeping that nasty ol’ reality outside the protective shell of blub-blub-blub (or whatever you call that noise you make when you flip your lips with your fingers, you know what I mean).
Gah. That’s the problem with being the combination of violently stupidity and undeserved enamor of one’s own intelligence that makes your garden variety wingnut, of which Ace is a friggin’ turnip. You can’t ever just say, “Oh, I was wrong, silly me. Thanks for helping me shed a little of the ignorance we all must face from time to time” You have to defend the stupid. Man, am I glad I am not a conservative.
* And you know that’s gotta hang up guys like Ace, “liberal” meanins “a lot” rather than just the political connotation. Why, you ask, is it because they’re so blinded by their partisanship the very word turns to ashes in their mouths? No. It’s ’cause they’re fucking stupid.
Stuff like this always cracks me up. Despite constant allegations and assertions from the right that Christian Fundamentalists and Muslim Fundamentalists are two TOTALLY different beasts and have NOTHING in common whatsoever, when you look at the sort of stuff that gets them steamed…well it’s pretty obvious that…they kinda do.
Fundamentalist Muslims: they don’t like science either.
Hon. Dr. etc. – your comment reminds me of a scene from British sitcom Spaced (by Shaun of the Dead‘s Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright).
Wait, I’m confused. I thought science such as “Darwinism” and Global Warming were religions. If we were to support such things it would be bad because we were undermining God’s magnificent plan for the world or something. But apparently teh left is Anti-science because we support Islamic creationism secretly.
Could Ace be helpful and produce a chart explaining what exactly I should believe in terms of Science versus Islam versus Christianity?
It depresses me that Ace gets any attention at all. He’s just so goddamn DUMB.
To save himself time, Ace should preface every post with an apology, disclaimer, or warning, something along the lines of: “I was born with feces where my brains should be. That’s why everything I write is shit.”
It depresses me that Ace gets any attention at all. He’s just so goddamn DUMB.
But he types so much faster than I do.
But apparently teh left is Anti-science because we support Islamic creationism secretly.
Actually, I don’t think it’s so much a question of supporting Islamic creationism, as it’s merely a by-product of what I’ve heard termed “rampant, out-of-control inclusivity”. The idea is liberals/leftists/Democrats hate White Christian Capitalist America – which is the real America, of course – so much that we instantly worship anything that doesn’t look like it came from Wal-Mart, even though it may run counter to our other areas of worship.*
Yeah, I know. Crazy as shit, right? But these people will argue that a gay-lovin’, pot-smokin’, free-thinkin’, science-diggin’, pro-choicin’ cat like myself is yerning for the harsh yoke of shira law or at the very least bowl right over when the Islamofacist hordes come a-screamin’ through Downtown Athens. I told you before, they’re fuckin’ stupid.
*Which, of course, are only given ear because we hate White Christian Capitalist America so much. For example, one doesn’t express concern over the introduction of, say, Intelligent Design into science classes because one thinks that it’s a bad idea to teach low-grade bullstuff as equal to science that can actually back it’s shit up. One opposes Intelligent Design because one is trying to destroy Christianity. Or global climate change. You don’t give a shit about the environment, Leftard; you just hate capitalism and worship Al Gore.
[…] hostile to science. And we shouldn’t be too proud about logic or literacy, either. See also: Sadly, No. […]
Fixed it.
Sack of hammers? Or NUTsack of hammers?
I’m waiting for the fundies to find a verse in the Bible that will become the basis for a new campaign to remove the teaching of Newton’s work and gravity from public schools. Why not? They’re out on the flimsy limbs already. Hey, it’s not gravity, it’s GOD…..ugh. I have NO idea how to link this, but I just found a paving stone that some group PAID to have ingraved here in Tampa Florida that reads “Evolution–The Opiate of the Uninformed”. In the Midwest, it never shocks me anymore. But down here? Honestly. At any rate, the pic is up at my site. Swipe it. Use it. Keep these fundies in the spotlight of insanity.
Everyone knows the best way to push Islamic creationism is to interview someone who is opposed to Islamic creationism, then ask them a softball question about Islamic creationism and give them the opportunity to shoot it down with extreme prejudice. Duh!
This reminds me of the wingnut I know who, back in spring of 2003, said that Hans Blix was “hiding” evidence of Saddam Hussein’s weapons programs. “Hiding it where?” I asked. “In the report he delivered to the UN on live, worldwide television” was the answer (I’m paraphrasing).
Why have I decided to put myself through this again?
So the rest of us don’t have to, and we truly thank you for it.
Can you blame Ace? When your archetypal interviewer is Hugh Hewitt, it’s understandable that an interview which actually probed the views of the other side would be an alien concept.
Hey, Christian conservatives? You want to win your creationism cases? Start bringing in Muslim creationists. And watch your liberal opponents suddenly finding it much more plausible that God — or, rather, Allah — created the earth, the animals, and humans directly.
Uh…Mr. O’Spades? The Kansas Kangaroo Court tried that already and it didn’t work.
We (and by “we”, I unfortunately really do mean “we” because I was a Kansas taxpayer at the time) collectively paid to bring Mustafa Akyol, a Muslim creationist and spokesperson Bilim Arastirma Vakfi, to Kansas. The aforementioned cult has a lot of clout despite the conviction and two-year prison sentence of its ringleader, Adnan Okhtar (pen name “Harun Yahya”) for blackmail.
The citizens of Kansas were not receptive to becoming a national laughingstock for the second time in a decade, so they voted in a rational majority at the next available opportunity.
Why have I decided to put myself through this again?
Because we have to mock them over here so we don’t have to mock them over there!
“Evolution–The Opiate of the Uninformed”
It’s so dreamy and comforting to think about the death of the malformed as a natural pro…zzzz…whu? Nodded off for a second there.
I hope that ace never stops writing. If it weren’t for his contributions, things like
would never have come into existence. And my days would be sadder indeed.
It’s ALMOST like he INTENTIONALLY refuses to take to your INSTRUCTION!
I just found a paving stone that some group PAID to have ingraved here in Tampa Florida that reads “Evolution–The Opiate of the Uninformed”.
A paving stone? This is how they’re spreading their message, by engraving things on paving stones?
Now I have to go to your page and see.
[…] And in any event, an interviewer’s questions totally proves that all liberals are looking for an Islamic version of creation […]
I say in the name of multiculturalism, we adapt the Ancient Egyptian creation myth. The World was created when Amun masturbated, and that’s final!
A paving stone? This is how they’re spreading their message, …?
There going to blow the campaign wide open with hand-lettered plywood signs tacked to poles and stanchions along major traffic routes.
Well, grafitti in bathroom stalls are quite effective guerilla marketing techniques, too.
I’m sure Ace now takes great comfort in his repeated F’s in Algebra, since that subject is now clearly anti-American.
In all fairness to Ace, he probably watches a lot of O’Reilly and thinks that when interviewing someone, instead of asking them questions, you are supposed to simply scream “SHUT UP!!!” and call them names.
And I bet most 2 year olds would agree.
I’m not saying Ace is akin to a 2 year old. Thats giving him too much credit. 2 year olds aren’t scared of Play Doh like Mr. Spades.
Objective–you’ve never had to drive through much of the Midwest, have you? They already have billboards up. No need for handwritten. The shock of the paving stone was to find it in Ybor City in Tampa, Florida.
Hysterical, I’m all for it!
The interviewer did defend “Islamic science” of the Golden Period, when they developed the scientific method, algebra, optics, etc. well before the European Renaissance. Reading comprehension is not one of Mr. Spade’s strengths, apparently.
The shock of the paving stone was to find it in Ybor City in Tampa, Florida.
I really don’t know why that would shock you. I’ve lived in and around Tampa for most of the last 23 years, and that kind of shit lost its ability to surprise me by 1986. There are a lot of dumbasses out here – probably whoever bought that stone lives out in Valrico.
Fishbone–I don’t know either. I was just having such a great time back in Tampa away from this fundie hotbed I live in and it was just as if I was being followed or something…..lol….like those kids in “Jesus Camp” standing on the streets with their propaganda.
Oh and yes, I did live in Kansas during the evolution nonsense, and yes, there were enough of us unwilling to look like fools to allow that to go further. But then I lived in Lawrence, one of the saner spots in the state (well, to me).
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