Still MORE people who should not be paid
to express their opinions
As you may have noticed, I have been feeling incredibly cranky lately. Part of it has to do with the apartment situation, but another part of it has to do with the fact that the Virginia Tech tragedy has produced some of the most insulting and embarrassing news “analysis” I have ever seen in my entire goddamn life. Witness this piece in the Sunday Times, for instance. Here’s the subhead:
When Cho killed 32 people at Virginia Tech, the horrific slaughter revealed not only the poisons lurking in popular culture but the crisis of young males in a feminised society, says Sarah Baxter
Yep, the bitches made ‘im do it! Cho is a symbol of the horrible things men can do when they’re forced to live in a culture that’s run by nasty females! And if you think I’m exaggerating how stupid, how tragically and depressingly stupid, this article’s content is, then read further:
Camille Paglia, professor of humanities and media studies at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia and author of Sexual Personae, believes Cho is emblematic of the crisis of masculinity in America. “Women have difficulty understanding the mix of male sexual aggression with egotism and the ecstasy of self-immolation,â€? she says. Or to quote Martin Amis on that other killer, Fred West: he became “addicted to the moment where impotence becomes prepotenceâ€?. […]
Cho is a classic example of “someone who felt he was a loser in the cruel social rat race�, Paglia says. The pervasive hook-up culture at college, where girls are prepared to sleep with boys they barely know or fancy, can be a source of seething resentment and alienation for those who are left out.
“Young women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment. The signals they are giving are very confusing, and rage and humiliation build up in boys who are spurned again and again.�
Holy crap.
Speaking as a male who was turned down many times as a freshman in college, I can attest that being rejected isn’t any fun. And yeah, at the time I probably had some nasty feelings about the women-folk who turned me down, which is common for 18-year-old guys. But as I got older, I actually came to the realization that:
a.) No one is obligated to sleep with anyone else.
b.) No one should feel that they deserve sex just for existing.
c.) Being rejected by someone isn’t any fun for women either.
d.) Yes, the college hook-up culture is shallow and stupid, but not everyone participates in it, and if you’re that bothered by it, you should probably be hanging out with a different set of people.
These realizations are all part of growing up. But for people like Paglia, these realizations are a form of injustice toward men and evidence that America has been overrun by uppity females. Again, look at this statement and despair:
“Young women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment. The signals they are giving are very confusing, and rage and humiliation build up in boys who are spurned again and again.�
The implication here is that it’s standard for young men to have sex without commitment, but when young women behave in the exact same way, the poor little mens get their feelings hurt. Boo-hoo-hoo!
Later on in the piece, the writer quotes the various conservative pundits who called the victims a bunch of wimps for letting themselves get shot:
In a twist to the debate on masculinity, some commentators have complained that the terrified Virginia Tech students were no Rambos when it came to defending themselves. John Derbyshire, a right-wing British writer based in America, wondered, “Why didn’t anyone rush the guy? Yes, I know it is easy to say these things, but didn’t the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything?� — a reference to the passengers fighting back in the 9/11 hijacked plane.
The columnist Mark Steyn took up the theme with an essay on the “culture of passivity� that is overtaking America. In his view, students are becoming so infantilised that they have lost their capacity to take responsibility.
“In a horrible world, there may come moments when you have to choose between protecting yourself and others,� he believes. “It is a poor reflection on us that in those critical first seconds where one has to make a decision, only an elderly Holocaust survivor understood instinctively the obligation to act.�
Can we please, please, please, please stop this crap, people? Pretty, pretty, pretty please?
Cho’s actions were not the symbolic deeds of a young man being forced to live under the tyranny of a “feminized” culture. They were the actions of one highly disturbed individual who didn’t get the psychiatric treatment he needed, who managed to get his hands on a pair of semi*-automatic weapons, and who then went out and killed people. That’s it. There is no Greater Lesson to be learned from the whole horrible incident. Stop trying to project your own feelings about gender politics onto this tragedy.
OK, I gotta get some real work done now. I fear that reading more stupid commentary on the VT shootings is going to do me irreparable harm.
P.S.- Just to please AkaDad, here’s another Alyssa Milano pic:
Also, I wanted to give mad props to the person who wrote the following awesome statement in response to my conspiracy theory about women and post-sex talking:
This is what works for for my husband: make her come before you do, and she’ll forget all about Suzy and her goddamn sled. Problem solved.
Word. Respec’.
*Thanks for catching that, grampaw.
Well, obviously no one was mentally ill prior to the sexual revolution. Except maybe all the oppressed women. But they just kill themselves. Isn’t that better? Me, I long for those simpler days when only the white man was allowed to kill, and it wasn’t really killing because it was only women and black folks.
I couldn’t get my brain wrapped around it before, but this completely explains the Alec Baldwin incident.
Thanks for selflessly posting that pic of Alyssa. That picture has inspired me to type this comment with just one hand…
That picture has inspired me to type this comment with just one hand…
You guys crack me up. Blogging under stress has been somewhat therapeutic for me, and I appreciate how much y’all can make me laugh. Just sayin’.
OK, back to work now. Respec’.
Uhh, wasn’t the first person he killed his ex-girlfriend? You know, when he shoot her up in her dorm before the rest of the rampage?
Doesn’t that, kinda… shoot down her little theorem from the get-go? No pun intended.
And; nope, still not digging the Alyssa.
Guhbuhbuhbuh culture of passivity? People are seriously whining that these half-asleep college students didn’t all jump up and take down the shooter Chuck Norris style? Never mind the students and professors who died trying to save others, never mind the students who barricaded their door just in time to keep the killer out.
I never used to think that violence in video games has any negative effect, but now I’m not so sure. No, they don’t “cause” violence, they just cause idiots to wonder why one of the students didn’t kick out one of the crates in the room to get the glock hidden inside, shoot out the vent in the room, crawl through it, picking up the body armor hidden inside, jump out of the vent in the hallway 100 yards in front of the killer, and take the killer out while running forward while precisely strafing to avoid the return fire. Sure our hero would take some damage, but that’s what medkits are for.
…because I drink a lot of coffee. Yeah
Jeesh. And right wingers often claim they hate Freud. ‘Waaah, the feminists dis-empowered a young man because there are slightly changed patterns of dating & sexual relations. Thus feminized, he becomes momentarily powerful with not just one but a pair of murderous, explosive penises, gunning down various victims who might have represented those who shamed & feminized him.’
Out of all the commonalities of the new tradition of American mass shootings, three pretty outstanding ones are (a) they are male; (b) they have pretty easy access to some pretty powerful weaponry; (c) a lot of them have engaged in stalker behavior.
Males who engaged in stalking behaviors against female victims are very likely to threaten harm or actually carry it out.
His was anything but a generalized ‘mental illness’, it was one in which he precisely was monitored for stalking and sexual harassment behavior.
Why do the right wingers read about a man who is continually and even officially identified as engaging in sexual harassment and stalking behaviors, even to the point of public interventions, and conclude that the problem is the women (and presumably the feminists behind them) he hated?
Camille Fucking Paglia? Holy crap indeed.
The pervasive hook-up culture at college, where girls are prepared to sleep with boys they barely know or fancy, can be a source of seething resentment and alienation
Damn. How come I never encountered that? My university was still dominated by a culture where girls insisted on knowing and fancying boys before sleeping with them.
That was also a source of seething resentment and alienation.
Ted Bundy had the same problem. The women made him do it. That or he was an out-and-out psychopath. Well, it was one of the two.
Oh’ hi Mz.Nicky!
Christ, Jrod, you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.
The weapon for that job is CLEARLY the laser guided missile launcher that you get from jumping over the flames behind the destroyed tank with your super jump power-up, then use your night-vision goggles to traverse the sewer filled with zombies that you kill with your shotgun, ride the giant ventilation fan up to the roof, then rappel down the side of the building to the secret locked room, and smash your way in by punching out the glass with your fists.
Why do the right wingers… conclude that the problem is the women (and presumably the feminists behind them) he hated?
Unsung literary heroes #7:
Rhetor. Greek poet (523 – 455 BCE). Inventor of the rhetorical question.
Er, no, they were semi-automatic weapons. I’m in favor of restricting access to handguns, but let’s not make false statements— that’s just giving the other side, um, ammunition.
Sadly, No: “Although no official motive has yet been provided, Dr Bill Knocke, head of the civil engineering faculty, said he understood Hilscher,19, was not his girlfriend but with whom he may have been infatuated.”
Jeebus H. Christmas! Maybe the rightards and the pundit set are have a “crisis of masculinity”, but nobody I know is. Definitions of masculinity have certainly changed (for the better I would say) over the last forty years to become more inclusive and less uptight and macho. Maybe if you think that John Wayne and Rambo are the only appropriate male role model you are having a crisis. The rest of us are simply relaxing into being able to enjoy being men without feeling insecure about being “manly” enough.
The truth is, Cho was a conservative.
True story: When I was younger, I read Camille Paglia’s crap at Salon and thought, “Damn, I guess I’m not a liberal if they think like this!” How little did I know that liberals hate her because she’s a narcissisitc, egocentric, sexist twit. Of course, since the “liberal” media did not contain many liberals, I never knew what they really thought. The Internet opened up a whole new world for me.
Anywho, this obsession with masculinity scares the crap out of me because it reeks of one of the most infamous ideologies of the 20th century. You know, the one that was obsessed with decadence, militancy, forbidding pleasure, the fear that femininity was overtaking society and making men weak, etc. I don’t have to spell it out for you…
P.S. Guns don’t kill people. Video games do. I know because Tim Russert said as much on Meet The Press today.
“The pervasive hook-up culture at college, where girls are prepared to sleep with boys they barely know or fancy, can be a source of seething resentment and alienation”
I never experienced this throughout my entire college career. I’ve only seen it on TV or in movies. Where are all these sex schools? Do I have to live on campus? Maybe that was my problem.
I did not feel alienated or resentful. I never had the chance. Hell, if I had known I could “hook up” with all sorts of girls who were prepared to sleep with me, I might have given it a try.
“Sadly, No: “Although no official motive has yet been provided, Dr Bill Knocke, head of the civil engineering faculty, said he understood Hilscher,19, was not his girlfriend but with whom he may have been infatuated.â€?”
Well, then I shall stand corrected.
Does anyone know the exact models he used? I know Glock makes a full-auto version of some of their pistols.
I’m sorry, but who’s Sarah Baxter?
Camille Paglia is particularly eloquent in this line –
“Young women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment. The signals they are giving are very confusing, and rage and humiliation build up in boys who are spurned again and again.”.
But somehow (or should I say, as usual) logical thinking and Ms. Paglia seem to have less than a nodding acquaintance. I didn’t realize that young men and boys innately know or otherwise learn (perhaps from mythical family elders) that women’s sexual signals only signified long term commitment desires. And yet these boys and men, in spite of this knowledge, somehow start off their manhood looking for scores, aka sex without commitment. How perfectly logical that these young men are so confused about the signals now.
What a pathetic buffoon this woman has become! And to imagine that she is a teacher. No wonder our young are growing more stupid.
I strongly suspect that the whole “feminized” culture gambit (besides being sexist) is nothing more than a way for people to complain without actually have to do anything. Consider: Talking about whether or not people with a history of violence and mental illness having access to guns might actually lead to tougher gun laws. Talking about mental health might actually lead to some improvements in health care. Bitching about women that must have caused this problem? Besides providing a scapegoat, it also provides a wonderful lack of anything resembling concrete action. If it is those darn feminists, then we can get on our high and mighty horses, wish for the “better days”, and do jack squat other than complain, since what form would a proposal to “unfeminize” our culture actually take?
Cho was a seriously disturbed individual. Clearly the system failed here, but it wasn’t the dating system. Plenty of men have bad stuff happen to them at the hands of the opposite sex. Plenty of women go through even worse. If our society is so dysfunctional that the difference between a serial killer and a sane individual is due to some crisis of masculinity we seriously will not survive the next year.
In Iraq it’s so much easier for our brave heroes to prove themselves.
The enemy gets on the bus with eight other armed men, rounding up the usual suspects be they Sunni, Shia, Kurd or Christian and begin shooting like lunatics. And just at that very moment when they’re killing democracy and people’s faith in freedom, Mark Steyn, John Derbyshire and Jonah Goldberg come onto the bus guns blazing and put a cap in these assholes. Hasta la vista, terrorista! Or that’s what they would do – if they weren’t munching down their sandwiches and their hands weren’t covered in cheetos orange. They’d do something like that though. Trust me.
Does anyone know the exact models he used? I know Glock makes a full-auto version of some of their pistols.
Cho had a 9mm Glock 19 (the Glock 18 has a full auto option) and a .22 caliber Walther P22.
In case anyone here missed it, here’s a link to the late great Molly Ivins’s famous smackdown of Paglia. A true classic. Fuckall, I miss Molly.
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~erich/misc/ivins_on_paglia
PS — Liebe Col. Klink darling!
Once I saw that Cammy was being quoted, I stopped reading.
Conserves the brain cells.
By the way, let’s say these knuckleheads were serious in their analysis that ‘new’ hookup culture –> feminizing disempowerment of {young} males –> rage & impotence by males –> violent eruptions by males.
Wouldn’t they want to, say, find ways to short circuit that process by concentrate on way males can deal with all that rage & impotence against feminizing disempowerment that doesn’t necessarily involve shooting dozens of people?
How about all these right wing pundits collectively sponsor a national public service ad campaign urging “If you are a male between 15 and 50 and you are experiencing rage and feelings you cannot control due to jealous situations with women, please call this number. And please, whatever you do, don’t go shoot up dozens of people.”
Maybe they could ask gun shop owners to ask customers (since there’s not too much in the real rules & enforcement side), “Hey, sorry for asking, but you weren’t thinking of going and shooting up a number of people due to jealous rage issues, were you?”
Or how about this: gun lobby stars like Ted Nugent could pose for posters to hang in stores & gunshops which insult men who shoot up people like their ex’s or their infatuations as wimps and losers.
Yep, the bitches made ‘im do it!
I’m quite concerned about your usage of the label “bitches” in this instance. I think the more appropriate and less offensive label would be “Ho’s”.
If you take a shovel and dig deeply enough in your back yard, somewhere between 12 and 25 feet down you’ll hit sterile soil, dirt that is compositionally the same as the dirt closer to the surface but that, because no new air, water or organic compounds ever seep that deep, is biologically inert.
This is an important analogy for academics. If you dig too deep, all you’re doing is making a mess, dredging up crap that doesn’t do anyone any good.
I see a ‘candid camera/truth or consequences kind of format. Contestants are filmed being caught in hold ups, bank robberies, and mass murder sprees (all simulated of course) and then are awarded points on how they reacted.
This is an important analogy for academics. If you dig too deep, all you’re doing is making a mess, dredging up crap that doesn’t do anyone any good.
Yeah! Do those assholes think we need to know about more neutrinos?
Jrod brought up a good point; it was 9:30 in the goddamn morning. Only the speed freaks and them freaky morning people were even aware what was going on in the first 10-20 seconds.
And I really, really, really would love to see a talk between Paglia and Ann Althouse. It’d be like bringing two black holes into close proximity and lettin em fight it out.
This line in your post is significant.
“fun. And yeah, at the time I probably had some nasty feelings about the women-folk who turned me down, which is common for 18-year-old guy”
Ask yourself why that is common for an 18 year old guy. Could it have anything to do with your expectations, or a sense of entitlement? Why would it be common to have “nasty feelings” toward someone who turned you down?
Objects are not permitted agency. You are promoting the thing you are complaining about.
Newt Gingrich: j’accuse LIBERALISM for the VTech massacre:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/22/newt-gingrich-blames-liberalism-on-va-tech-massacre/
…because what is liberalism, if it’s not about deranged lunatics having access to dangerous weapons?
Objects are not permitted agency. You are promoting the thing you are complaining about.
Jeezus christ’s tits in a mason jar, folks. You really wanna go down THIS road on THIS blog? Are you really gonna be happy when you succeed in stifling snark because everybody’s afraid of offending some other someone? Can we remember that the whole idea here is to have a few laughs at other peeps expense? What would you like this site to be? I’m pretty sick of every thread having some amount of “you are offending/oppressing me”.
If you wanna take everything seriously, you need to hang at big orange. If you wanna have a few laughs, you gotta lighten up a little.
Please?
mikey
The unseen hand had some excellent points in post #27. After all, posting sexy pictures of Alyssa Milano on the internet is just a step on the way to buying handguns and deciding to kill 32 people, and then yourself. How dare you be so hypocitical, Brad?
Guns don’t kill people, rappers do. I’ve seen it in a documentary on BBC2.
Feminized society? WTF? We still live in a male-dominated anti-feminist society. I guess the fact that some women want to live as fully autonomous human beings just so freaks out the codpiece strutters that they are forced to go on killing sprees. I guess their precious bodily fluids got sapped, or something.
This is just another moron blaming victims. Women aren’t being subservient enough, so they’re sending “mixed signals” and deserve whatever they get, the sluts.
Thebewilderness:
Why did Brad say something about how it made him a bit unhappy that he was turned down by women in college? Uh, let’s see, perhaps because it was a completely normal reaction? Is there something about that kind of honesty that rubs you the wrong way?
That explains why Jack the Ripper killed all those women. He felt emasculated and disempowered by Queen Victoria. Oh, yeah, and British gun laws prevented them from carrying sidearms.
If Hillary gets elected, it won’t be safe to leave the house.
“I see a ‘candid camera/truth or consequences kind of format. Contestants are filmed being caught in hold ups, bank robberies, and mass murder sprees (all simulated of course) and then are awarded points on how they reacted.”
That reminds me of an old study we watched in Psychology class once, about stimulation and perception, where they set up a hidden camera in a bank, and arranged for someone to “shoot” the bank guard or teller, to see how people reacted and how well they could accurately describe or identify the shooter.
I wish i could find it on youtube, because it’s pretty interesting to watch. People don’t spring into action, they kinda mill around like sheep.
http://www.compfused.com/directlink/4777/ Though there is this, but I suspect that this was a prank or something.
Jebus fuckberg mcmisandry christ’s beautiful tits.
what mikey said.
Also, Mr. Hon. Dr. Brad Esquire Sir, may I once again suggest that, if you are truly feeling irritable because the wingnuts/hard right are ramping up to a new level of hatefulness, you may want to practice some more detatchment.
I just keep thinking that the hard right are going to keep getting worse and worse until either the US starts a war with Iran, or they do something that alienates most of the country, or they simply choke on their own anger.
If the US starts a war with Iran, we’ll have much worse troubles than a bunch of idiotic hypocrites who say hateful things on the news. If the hard right self-destructs then the problem will be solved. If they just alienate more of the country, then we will have more of a real ‘culture war’ going on. I don’t know what that would look like.
I guess what I am trying to say is, don’t let them get you down. Instead look at them with detatchment. There is no point in taking the nonsense that they spew seriously on any level, besides asking yourself, “how many people are gonna believe that”?
Young women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment. The signals they are giving are very confusing,
Um….if women are behaving like men, why do the men find it confusing? I would think the men would get it pretty quickly, since the women are behaving like men.
People don’t spring into action, they kinda mill around like sheep.>/i>
Yeah, remember the video of the cop in Chicago beating up the tiny little bartender, just a couple of months ago? In the surveillance video, a couple of pretty big guys just walked up to the bar, took a look and walked away. I thought that was weird.
Aw. Will I ever learn?
I don’t blame you g, dealing with HTML tags is kinda annoying.
Are you really gonna be happy when you succeed in stifling snark because everybody’s afraid of offending some other someone? Can we remember that the whole idea here is to have a few laughs at other peeps expense?”
So where are the jokes at the expense of blacks? Hispanics? Asians? Muslims? Or does “having laughs at other peeps expense” [sic] apply only to women and wingnuts?
women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment wah wah fishcakes
“Feminization” of society is when society more closely conforms to male sexual norms, i.e. when women behave more like men. When a society is completely feminized by complete conformation to male norms, it confuses and enrages men.
“I can’t believe that!” said Alice.
“Can’t you?” the queen said in a pitying tone. “Try again, draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.”
“Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
Where are the jokes at the expense of women?
Thebewilderness, I didn’t take that line as “women are objects”. Brad is saying rejection hurts for both men and women, and when you mature you realize people have a right to reject you. I don’t see that as sexist. I see what Camila Pagina is saying as really sexist.
Huh? If “young women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment” then logically there would be fewer males being “spurned”, not more. Most college-age guys would be delighted if women were more into casual sex. How is this supposed to be traumatic? I don’t get it.
So where are the jokes at the expense of blacks? Hispanics? Asians? Muslims? Or does “having laughs at other peeps expense� [sic] apply only to women and wingnuts?
Oh fer christs sake. This shit’s gotta stop. Ok, Miz, you wanna play the wingnut’s game? You wanna look at the people who populate this community, you wanna TRY not to look like a “game’o’gotcha” wingnut? There is more caring and compassion and diversity in this place than in any other place I go. WE ARE NOT STUPID!!! We know the fucking difference. It’s insulting to have this shit come up on the one place it most certainly does not belong.
You do not know how many hours a week I donate to not one county’s, but TWO county’s battered womens shelters and associated programs. You have never seen me or ANY of the people on this blog doing the kind of shit you’d find objectionable. What you will find here is caring people trying to figure out how to cope with the incredible series of public policy nightmares we have been handed and using humor as a way to a. Make it all a little bit more bearable and b. Show the madness and dishonesty of the other side…
mikey
Shorter mikey.
If you don’t like this kind of humor, if you find it offensive, just exactly WHY do you come here? Is it merely to expound upon your goodness and the evil of the rest of this community?
mikey
I’ll go grill now…
[…] typical, snarky lefty blogofacist fashion, Bradly S. Rocket over at Sadly, No! dismisses Ms. Paglia’s thesis as “tragically and depressingly stupid”. I believe […]
Young women now seem to want to behave like men and have sex without commitment.
Huh? Isn’t Camille Paglia younger than I am — I went to college in the late 60’s — and didn’t she notice how many young women were doing that even back in those long-gone days? I was doing it — without shame, I might add, to this day — and so were most of my friends, and none of us ended up in the gutter, either. Jeez, I thought Camille had SOME credibility left, but I must have picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue.
Or does “having laughs at other peeps expense� [sic] apply only to women and wingnuts?
It only applies to wingnuts. Why do you put women in the same category with idiots? Are you saying that the average woman is as stupid or insane as the average wingnut?
MzNicky said,
April 22, 2007 at 22:54
Yer not the only one who wishes that Molly was here to slap some of these idiots down.
Anyone give me odds on whether Derb and Steyn would pis themselves if a gun were pointed at them?
Good grief! Brad said he felt bad about rejection when he was 18. How did that get to be a slap at women? I’m a woman, and took absolutely no offense; in fact, having been rejected a few times myself, I empathized. Where or when did we get put into the same category as wingnuts? I must have missed that comment. Chill! These kids today…
Okay, this was a long time ago but here’s what I remember.
There was this episode of Small Wonder where the robot girl and her human brother and their neighbor are held hostage in a bank or something, and when the bankrobber is about to make his getaway, he marches the kids out at gunpoint and is about to make his escape in front of everybody.
But then, the dad says “Vicki! Use your ‘magnetic personality’!”, and she was all like, “My mag-net-ic per-son-al-i-ty,” in her robot voice, and she totally used like a magnet or some crap inside of her hand to yank away the robber’s gun without even going NEAR him! It was so awesome!
And THAT is how the students at VT should have fought back.
I’m sorry, but who’s Sarah Baxter?
A British journalist running a Washington bureau with a tight deadline, a large space to fill, and a rather small set of contacts. Thus is the way with Sunday newspapers.
Incidentally, where’s Kim du Toit on the whole VaTech/feminization meme?
He used to own this particular bit of wingnuttery. And now he’s being beaten to the punch by a bunch of chicks!
Guess it just proves the point…
I hope at least one other person has mentioned this: the insults to women are from Paglia, and not from your host.
Just popping in to say I love you all, have been working 15 hour days and out of touch, catching up now. I feel very scared about how people with mental illness are being represented in the media, and the rumblings for coercive psychiatric “treatment”, but that’s my thing. I am sensitive and defensive, but feel supported here like nowhere else. Just sayin’ respec’ & gratitude & what mikey says, as usual.
Well, of course it does, dear. Namely because, at that point, everyone mistakes those poor boys for nasty, Homo-faggo mchelium-heelzez, and considering who they’re dating at that point, who’s to say they aren’t? So, can you blame them, the poor, psychopathic darlings? Soooooo sweet… when properly medicated.
Yoiks! I must have fallen off my perch or something, because I used to be the humourless feminist, but I see absolutely nothing to complain about herein. Take it easy, Ms Nicky, ‘cos here we’re all warm and fuzzy and having a group hug, in a family kind of way. Or maybe a ‘wanna shag you senseless’ kinda way.
Sheesh, why can’t everyone be more like me? Honestly, if y’all slept 22 hours a day like moi, y’all would be much more mellow.
Mind you, the kibble’s no picnic. And nothing makes up for having to lick your own arse clean.
thebewilderness: This line in your post is significant.
“fun. And yeah, at the time I probably had some nasty feelings about the women-folk who turned me down, which is common for 18-year-old guy�
Ask yourself why that is common for an 18 year old guy. Could it have anything to do with your expectations, or a sense of entitlement?
No, not entitlement, but desire.
One’s reaction to refused entitlement would obviously feel much less sharp and radically different in tone from one’s reaction to frustrated desire. And the less one’s expectations, the more acute is frustration.
Also, I think women who get turned down are kinda pissed-off too. Admitting that you were pissed off seems more like basic honesty to me than anything else.
I don’t think I felt pissed off so much as embarrassed (face-flamingly so) and disappointed (tearfully teenagery so).
How could I not? After all, as a teenager I was undoubtedly a minx of the first water and centre of the universe, so how could I imagine that some oik would be so impertinent as to refuse the offer of a saucy liaison with moi? I mean, really!
Note for the humour-impaired: this was me trying to (a) make a point that no-one likes rejection, and (b) trying to make the point that teenagers feel things so much more passionately (and with a somewhat skewed worldview).
And, of course, that I love yez all, and wish the snark to continue.
Actually, on second thoughts, and after a second’s thought, I realised that I’m really truly ruly less pissed off about some of the ones that turned me down than I am about some of the ones that took me up. Eeuurrrgggghhh, some of the boys I bonked. These days they’re the only ones that generate the blushes of shame.
After all, as a teenager I was undoubtedly a minx of the first water and centre of the universe
Yes, the teenaged feeling that you are the center of the universe. I remember it well.
Maybe it’s like a psychological shell around your personality for use when you are not yet able to fully connect with others.
Teenagers as a group may be famed for feeling that they’re at the center of the universe; however to their credit, they at least seem to be aware that there is a universe out there to which they’re the center — unlike, say, the current occupants of the White House, who appear to be convinced that of the universe, only they are real, all else are merely illusions or perhaps pests to be dispensed.
I think it was a drive-by patriarchy-blaming. They just got blame over all the bystanders.
The US military has upped the maximum age of recruitment lately, so I guess all those right-wing commentators who decry the rise of passivity in American culture are doing so using their blackberries, while standing on recruitment lines?
OK, I took one abnormal psychology course in college, and that was forty years ago, but his video clearly shows he was a paranoid psychotic. A psychiatrist writing in the Baltimore Sun agrees. So, you’re right: no “lessons” here, no overarching explanations. Nothing to do with “society”, nothing to do with “evil”. He needed treatment that he didn’t get, and he too easily obtained a semi-automatic Glock. Nothing new. It will happen again.
The thing I love about what her royal feline highness wuz saying is that if I’d said it it’d be no less true, but it’d be patriarchal n bad. (Which ain’t a snark at her royal feline highness.)
Referring to the greater shame at memories of foolish youthful partners than at being turned down, to clarify.
If Cho had lived to stand trial, and his defense attorney had tried to use the argument that Camille Paglia puts forth (the “feminization” of men; the pressure of college “hook up” culture etc ad nauseum), how long do you think it would have taken for these same reichwing freaks to dismiss that defense as just so much Liberal coddling of criminals? Just askin’
So winger BLOGGERS are whining about passivity? These are the same winger bloggers who aren’t putting their lives on line in foreign lands, but who rather prefer to display the “moral courage” (as opposed to the actual kind that actually might result in actual harm) requisite to “fight” teh GWOT?
Hey, my Dubya Bush is the greetest preznit in da whole wurld. Juz because Cho kouldn’t diddle him like a chiken no more ain’t no reason fur him to go on a shootin so them libfemfascnazihomoqueerfags kin take muh guns frumm me. Bush shuldu told Gukert to diddle Cho when he culdnt.
P.S. Guns don’t kill people. Video games do.
Guns don’t kill people, rappers do.
excuse me, but I think it has been made PERFECTLY clear that guns don’t kill people, Feminists do.
And yeah, at the time I probably had some nasty feelings about the women-folk who turned me down, which is common for 18-year-old guy�
I was thinking that 18-year-olds of both genders often have a tendency to be a) self-centered, b) immature, and c) overly dramatic. And honestly, the more important line in Brad’s post is the next one:
But as I got older, I actually came to the realization that:
a.) No one is obligated to sleep with anyone else.
b.) No one should feel that they deserve sex just for existing.
Most of us call that “growing up”.
Paglia is right. The writer is misusing her point in the peice. In the last 10 years feminist concepts of equality in sexual morality have come to fruition, and rightfully so, women and men should be moral as well as intellectual equals.
But our society has not prepared in any way to deal with that concept. For 30 years girls have been repeatedly told “you can be anything”, and boys just are what they always have been, boys. The true impediment towards equal rights is the negative effect it has on the dominant group, and no attempt has been made on a societal scale to mitigate the inevitable stress and confusion caused by a rapid shift in perceived gender roles.
By not preparing for a soft landing for shifts in societal you doom the best of changes to failure, or unneccessary suffering. An example, in some ways american schools are more de facto segregated after Brown vs Board of Ed, than they were before.
Women’s equality will not thrive without preparing men to be able to deal with it, recognizing that american men are troubled isn’t about feminizing anyone, but the consequences of a social vision that only speaks about the 1950’s on both sides, ignores the issue of adapting our social concepts of gender roles to todays socio-economic reality.
I’m quite concerned about your usage of the label “bitches� in this instance. I think the more appropriate and less offensive label would be “Ho’s�.
From “Fear of a Black Hat”
What’s the difference between a bitch and a ho?
Well, you see, a ho fucks everybody
A bitch fucks everybody, but you.
MzNicky- Thanks for the Ivins ! Brilliant!
Bistroist! Very nice GLC reference. Big ups to Welsh rap!
And this from Ivins on Paglia (thanks for the link, MzNicky) is just perfect: What we have here, fellow citizens, is a crassly egocentric, raving twit. The Norman Podhoretz of our gender. That this woman is actually taken seriously as a thinker in New York intellectual circles is a clear sign of decandence, decay, and hopeless pinheadedness.
Finally: “fun. And yeah, at the time I probably had some nasty feelings about the women-folk who turned me down, which is common for 18-year-old guy�
Ask yourself why that is common for an 18 year old guy. Could it have anything to do with your expectations, or a sense of entitlement? Why would it be common to have “nasty feelings� toward someone who turned you down?
Bu-whu? As someone who has been in similar shoes, I can say it probably had everything to do with his expectations, and quite possibly with a sense of entitlement. And…?
Everybody has expectations in many situations, and (here’s a shocker) some people may feel a completely unwarranted sense of entitlement about some things. And when those expectations don’t come to fruition, when that sense of entitlement is shown to be not-so-much truly entitling, those people might feel a bit disappointed. Disappointment — whatever the reason — can make people have “nasty feelings” and think bad thoughts. (I’ll bet it’s even happened to you on occasion, thebewilderness.)
Of course most people, at least those who are not psychotic, learn to live with their disappointments; many of them even come to realize that maybe their expectations were not realistic, that they are not necessarily entitled to whatever it was they thought they were entitled to. That’s called “growing up,” and people usually still have a lot of that left to do when they are 18.
And now I see Dorothy beat me to that particular comment, so I’d better post that before my entire post becomes (more) obsolete.
My pleasure, Fade and Dan Someone.
[deep shuddery sigh] I miss MzMolly somethin’ fierce.
For 30 years girls have been repeatedly told “you can be anything�, and boys just are what they always have been, boys.
Boys have always been told “You can be anything”. Girls were told “You can be a teacher, a nurse, or a secretary, but you really, really should be a stay-at-home wife and mother”–that was the whole source of the gender role inequality in the first place.
The only “necessary difference” in what boys are told is to tell them it’s OK for them to choose those few roles that were previously female-specific. And this has happened: male nurses and male teachers are common, and stay-at-home dads are not ostracized. (I can’t speak to secretaries of either gender from my current occupation.)
This also raises the question: Exactly who has failed to tell boys whatever “different thing” you expected them to be told? What do you propose we tell them? I mean, what doesn’t “Respect people as individuals instead of as mindless collections of genitalia” cover, in your mind?
The true impediment towards equal rights is the negative effect it has on the dominant group,
Really? Wow, no wonder racism and sexism are so hard to get rid of.
[ /sarcasm ]
and no attempt has been made on a societal scale to mitigate the inevitable stress and confusion caused by a rapid shift in perceived gender roles.
I think there has been an attempt on a societal scale: that’s kind what the whole women’s rights movement is all about, isn’t it? Unfortunately, there has also been resistance on a societal scale as well. Columns like Paglia’s are helping prop up that resistance: as long as it’s all the women’s fault, there’s no reason for men to alter their behavior. And we’ll then there’s the “men expect sex without commitment” stereotype that only reinforces the perceived gender roles in the first place and is grossly unfair to those men who are not commitment-phobic assholes.
But even if there hasn’t been a valid attempt, who other than the dominant group can make that attempt, anyway? Are you saying that women must be a whole lot nicer to men in exchange for being treated as, you know, people? And if women start being nicer to men before men accept the societal shift, won’t that just discourage a large portion of men from ever accepting that shift? I remember hearing a saying about buying cows to get free milk, or something.
MzNicky,
I miss MzMolly somethin’ fierce.
Me, too. She was one of the few things to love about Texas.
Molly’s grocery lists were better written than anything the wingnut welfare brigade ever spewed forth.
Dorothy: Word, girl.
There is no Greater Lesson to be learned from the whole horrible incident.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. The damn incident has been nothing but a really scary Rorschach test, and it’s absolutely ridiculous.
[…] 2) Male rage against the feminization of America […]
That must have been an interesting feeling. All during my highschool daze (and for some time thereafter, ca. the ’80s), I was afraid that people would find out that I was kweer and kill me.
Good times, good times.
Anyone here subject themselves to WeinerNation Radio? Stephanie Miller’s producer commented that Mike “Savage” Weiner asked by none of the students tried to cut off Cho’s leg with a knife while he was shooting. Cos that’s what he would have done. I know “Savage” doesn’t post transcripts, and I can’t find a link to this show content. Not that I want to make my ears bleed, it’s just that I like to know the facts.
And Neil Boortz asked why 25 students were lined up against a wall and shot, one by one, all awaiting their executing passively. Then it comes out the pretty much did the full range of things in reaction to the rapidly-moving shooter, including running, getting shot, hiding, helping each other, dying, jumping out second-story windows, etc.
Boortz refs:
http://boortz.com/nuze/200704/04172007.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/20/us/20radio.html
http://boortz.com/nuze/200704/04182007.html
VA tech students’ actual experience:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3049678&page=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22norris.html
Malkin, Boortz, Steyn, Limbaugh, Coulter… all blaming feminism for Cho’s rampage, and the Westboro Baptist Church threatened to disrupt VA Tech students’ funerals and blame the murders on homosexuality. They went as far as to claim Cho was an instrument of god.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/national/main2699800.shtml
I can’t resist…
The right wing punditry seems to have a case of ninjavitis. (Persistent, and contrary to evidence belief in one’s ability to perform in combat as a ninja.)
Sorry. Bad.
So, you’re right: no “lessons� here, no overarching explanations. Nothing to do with “society�, nothing to do with “evil�. He needed treatment that he didn’t get, and he too easily obtained a semi-automatic Glock. Nothing new. It will happen again.
Thank you Davis! That is exactly what needed to be said. It’s what I think every time one of these disgusting murderers makes his mark on the news by killing.
Actually, it’s a lot like what I thought after 9/11 too. Everyone was saying, “This is the day that changed everything!”, and I was thinking, “This was a monumental fuckup. It is far too easy easy, in this overcrowded, highly technical world, to do what the 9/11 murderers did. It doesn’t mean what every one thinks it means. And it will happen again.”
It’s not surprising that someone named “atheist” and I think alike.
“I don’t think I felt pissed off so much as embarrassed (face-flamingly so) and disappointed (tearfully teenagery so).”
Isn’t that kind of the point, though? There’s a difference between being disappointed and embarassed and being angry, and feeling anger would seem to be coming more from a place of entitlement. “How DARE that [whatever] not want me! She is evil, evil!” To Brad’s credit, he acknowledged that what he was feeling was wrong. But, as a guy, I don’t think it can be pointed out enough that nobody owes anyone anything except common courtesy in that context, because it’s actually pretty common to never grow out of that phase. Just take a quick look around at what personality types are running the country.