Ya see, I come here for the jokes… and I stay for the ass kicking.

Whoa, nice work Gavin. I wonder how that felt for CY, getting his ass all detached and having it handed to him wrapped up like a present with a big bow on top?

I think ‘polite discourse’ disappeared from the blogosphere some time back…

Thanks Gavin. I apologize for threatening to slap you guys with my cock. I hereby resign.

The sad thing of course is that Deb was not seriously threatening anyone in anyway. I was just going through her history at that site and she was very clearly playing the “troll” role. Unsurprisingly, she was subjected to various sexual and physical comments which she did not like. She said “You wouldn’t tolerate it if some nasty troll started making jokes about Jeff’s children (saw the tyke reference in the post that started it all) being run over, kidnapped, etc. It’s over the line to make even vaguely threatening references to people’s real lives. So don’t do it anymore. Jeff, if you want me to perform as Professor Moonbat here at your zoo, you need to tell your pals there are rules. I’m going to take my tinfoil hat and kazoo somewhere else if you allow people to continue to try to diss me by referring to my body parts.” That was several days before any of the “threatening” quotes. Reads to me like she was trying to do an Ann Coulter imitation and it went over all of their heads (she even references that she is emulating a famous right wing figure)

What, there aren’t enough scary things going on in the world? Are these guys having to make stuff up be frightened of now?

It’s a bit of a leap in tone, if you know what I mean – it’s one thing to be told by country-dwellers and suburbanites that we townies should agree with their insane reflections on the lessons of the London bombings, quite another to be informed that an email from some mouthy professor proves our collective malfeasance.

For the record, threatening children is bad. I am opposed to it. On the other hand, insulting Jeff Goldstein is good, and I condone it!

The little twat.

She may have been provoked, and the Right certainly doesn’t seem to have any boundaries of discourse it’s not prepared to violate routinely, but I really don’t find her means of attack (or counter-attack) excusable, or see any reason to minimize it. Sure, it’s just one fistful of slime on top of the mountain of slime emanating from the Right, and we shouldn’t be afraid to point that out — repeatedly, and forcefully, as Gavin did. But making excuses for Deborah Frisch only feeds their game, and supports someone who at best showed extremely poor judgement.

Is there nothing The [Psychotic] LeftTM won’t stoop to?

Hmm. Dammit, the sup tag worked in preview.

Remember, folks. Your decision to support Frisch’s comments with comments like “… Deb was not seriously threatening anyone in anyway. I was just going through her history at that site and she was very clearly playing the “trollâ€? role …” means that you condone discourse such as:

I’d like to hear more about your “tyke” by the way. Girl? Boy? Toddler? Teen? Are you still married to the woman you ephed to give birth to the tyke?

Tell all, bro!

And

[…] as I said elsewhere, if I woke up tomorrow and learned that someone else had shot you and your “tyke” it wouldnÂ’t slow me down one iota. You arenÂ’t “human” to me.

[…]

So if you could just tell me the AGE and SEX of your “tyke,” I’d be stoked!

Thanx!

And

Ooh. Two year old boy. Sounds hot. You live in Colorado, I see. Hope no one Jon-Benets your baby.

Are you still married to the woman you humped to produce the toddler?

And

I reiterate: If some nutcase kidnapped your child tomorrow and did to her what was done to your fellow Coloradan, Jon-Benet Ramsey, I wouldnÂ’t give a damn.

And

Give your pathetic progeny (I sure hope that mofo got good genes from his mama!) a big fat tongue-filled kiss from me! LOTS AND LOTS OF SALIVA from Auntie MOONBAT, if you donÂ’t mind!

Somehow, Jeffy boy, I think you get off on the possibility of Frenching your pathetic progeny, even if it is a boy. You seem like a VERY, VERY sick mofo to me, bro.

And

Just my two cents: The pathetic jeffy boy goldstein plays the jew card 24/7. DidnÂ’t you notice?

THIS IS A CESSPOOL!!! GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!!!

JEFF!!! DRINK THE KOOLAID AND LET YOUR WIFE RAISE THE little Goldstein Junior!

And

I am SHAKING, I tell you, SHAKING!!! in my boots at the prosect at an FBI and/or state police trooper tromping down my driveway to see if I was a threat to the progeny of the pissant name of Jeff “pissant” Goldstein of the pathetic, neutered, sissified, state of Colorado. I don’t give a rat’s ass whether the pissant’s progeny live or die, but I have no intention of snuffing the mofo’s chillen myself.

Your original post can be summarized in two phrases: “They started it” and “They’re worse than Frisch.” Do you really believe that Frisch’s comments are acceptable? Do you truly want discussions to be at this level?

If you want to convince me that the “progressive” way is somehow superior, show me that the level of conversation can be elevated above

All else aside, fuck you, you thin smear of human slime.

Until then…

I

Mark A,

As Gavin demonstrated, we have raised the level of discourse. It’s just that your buddies set the bar so damn low. Gavin’s parting shot was polite by your friends’ standards.

Oh, by the way, fuck you.

I don’t think it matters whether she was “trying to give them a taste of their own medicine” or not – comments like that are over the line.

That being said…..who the hell is she? And why should any of us care who she is? And furthermore – how is she representative of “The Left” (or anything else) when no one has ever even heard of her before?

The day Al Franken threatens to slap Jeff Goldstein across the face with his cock, I’ll pay attention. Until then…yawn.

Hmm… shooting your mouth off about not feeling bad if someone’s kid dies…

Directly threatening private individuals and helping to prop up a war that has resulted in the maiming or killing of innumerable kids…

Yup, sounds about equivalent to me.

Seems to me the denizens of Right Blogistan are really scraping the bottom of the barrel in search of The Leftist Outrage of the Day ™. An utter nobody goes off on JG (like THATS never hapened before!) and all of a sudden everybody with the common sense to recognize that the current administration, as represented by the Republican Right, is incompetent, dishonest, venal, racist and corrupt is also a toddler-killer. Jeez, some of these people really need a new hobby. Something to fill the hours of the days when there’s really not that much to talk about. Maybe they could learn to love really bad music videos and kittens?

mikey

Great post, Gavin.

I was also struck by CY’s condemnation of the liberal blogs for not denouncing this person we’d never heard of, making a comment on a blog we’d never read. Seriously, was our Spidey sense supposed to go off as soon as she hit “submit comment”?

Just because Jeff Goldstein is the center of his universe, doesn’t mean he’s the center of ours. Besides, with all his cock-slapping and dog-ass fingering, that universe is a creepy, creepy place.

Your original post can be summarized in two phrases: “They started it� and “They’re worse than Frisch.� Do you really believe that Frisch’s comments are acceptable? Do you truly want discussions to be at this level?

Let me try to explain to you how incredibly fucking stupid that is. There are several, if not many, levels of badness. Just for the sake of argument, let’s pretend there are 11 and label them 0 to 10, with 10 being, say, the Holocaust, and 0 being totally neutral, like, say, a hammer. You idiots are continually engaged in, or cheerleading for, behavior in the 7 to 8 range. Maybe 9. Frisch’s tantrum was a 5. Get it? Still bad. Not good. Not “acceptable.” But utterly, and unfortunately, relatively mundane. In other words, who the fuck cares if some idiot gets all riled up at Goldstein and says some crazy stupid shit? Goldstein lives for that kind of thing. Haven’t you noticed?

Sure, Mark. Y’know, I don’t imagine Gavin really bothers with trying to argue morality with the High Council of Hypocrites, so anything he has to say is in the nature of informing people who may not know how Goldstein or Malkin work, or what they’re up to at the moment, just what’s what.

And if you expect people to act like the morality police you might take a moment to consider what the actual police do. If you’re an innocent, law-abiding citizen who is wronged, the police might come and protect you or help you get restituition. If, on the other hand, you’re a notorious two-bit grifter who calls in because he just got the shit kicked out of him by an angry pigeon, they might just look at you and laugh. All clear now?

Liberals acutally support women killing their children just because they’re sluts.

The children are sluts? (Oh no, I’m a child molester!)

“Fuck you.” “You idiot.”

Okay, okay, it’s clear to me now. The level of discourse has been raised because “we have raised the level of discourse.” How, in any way, was I insulting or threatening in my post that warranted such “elevated” responses? You have no idea of who I am or what I believe other than what my post contained yet some commenters respond in this manner.

If nothing else, I have my answer.

Before Confederate Yankee blasts all of us liberals for our evil insensitivity, let me apologize to Mark A. on behalf of all liberaldom.

Perhaps it’s the five years of being called “America-haters,” “traitors,” and “terrorist sympathizers” that has lowered our sensitivity levels when it comes to name calling. We’ve forgotten that there are a few people out there who haven’t been constantly villified for the past half decade and whose little ears might burn at profanity.

So I’m sorry your feelings were hurt, Felicity.

Otto Man,

Thanks for the thought. My feelings are far tougher than that and are just fine. If name-calling is the best we can do then we have no room to complain when others do it.

I’m really unhappy with the response to Frisch’s trolling and the pass she’s getting because those on the right

“… ‘defensively’ attack immigrants, gays, poor people, Muslims as a category, the far left as a political force, and random puny targets like Ward Churchill, Deborah Frisch, and small groups of students at UC Santa Cruz. If they ever decided to go up against someone with power or the ability to fight back… But why speak of things which will never be? These are cowards and bullies, the worst of America.”

This is blatantly overblown rhetoric that does absolutely nothing to demonstrate that people on the left have anything to offer, which I believe they do.

Frisch was way over the top (contrary to Porgy Tirebiter’s assessment) and should be condemned by people on both sides. Jeff G.’s comments noted above should also be condemned (which I most emphatically do.) Mindless polarization on both sides serves no one.

*end of pontification*

I like Mark’s “folks” designation for it’s ability to encompass not only all posters here at Sadly, No, and all liberals as well. Good job, Mark!!

So, squaring my shoulders and stepping up to take my personal responsiblity, Mark, I have to say – yes, I have sinned greviously.

I have sinned, by my failure to visit Pasty’s site on a regular basis, along with any and all other right-wing sites, and reading not only all the posts, but all the comment threads therein. And in compounding of that sin, I have sinned by not reading Deborah Frisch’s comments, and being righteously aghast at them. And I have further compounded my sins by not immediately registering to those many right wing sites and, as a bonafide representative of the Left, posting my comments condemning her comments. And I have failed yet again, by not emailing at once to the Right wing sites that do not accept comments. And, further, I have sinned by not starting my own blog immediately, for the sole purpose of posting my condemnation of this horrendous, why this absolutely horrendous offense against a poor, gentle, inoffensive cock-slapper.

Yes, I in my ignorance and failure to monitor the entire blogoshere 24/7, and guilty of allowing Deborah Frisch’s comments to go uncondemned for an entire 12 hours.

We, the left, are guilty. There’s nothing more to be said.

Mark A,

There’s a fundamental problem with these “lefties should condemn so-and-so” games: although one can find despicable rhetoric on both sides, the right-wing side is widely publicized and lauded by the mainstream media. A typical exchange goes something like this –

(1) A bunch of right-wing psychopaths are given copious airtime on national TV to call for the literal execution of journalists for publishing public information.
(2) Liberals rightly decry these statements
(3) Conservatives respond with, “When Prof. Lester Q. Bumblefuck of Northwest Kansas Polytechnic posted a blog comment saying he wished Christians would just die already, where was the liberal outrage? Huh? Huh? Tolerance, indeed.”

These are not equivalent positions, and I don’t see why you pretend otherwise.

Mark A.:

I don’t see a lot of defenses of Frisch’s comments here. I see calls for perspective. Frisch made some offensive comments BUT has already apologized and resigned her job. Frisch was NOT an Atrios or Daily Kos but a blogger with minimum traffic, at least before this latest dustup.

By contrast, much bigger conservative bloggers have called for outright genocide of millions of people, both foreign and domestic. They sell merchandise that calls for killing of journalists and liberals. And yet, those very people who are now claiming for the condemnation of Frisch have been silent for years in the face of those actions. Commentators here are suggesting that they have no standing to be offended in the face of far milder comments from Frisch.

Finally, we have been pointing out the inconsistency between declared outrage at Frisch’s comments adn the very real deaths of very real children that this country has caused over the past five years. The conservative blogosphere does not think all lives are equal: if the child is that of a fellow conservative then it should not be threatened, but if the child is across the globe then they don’t care if it lives or dies, indeed the often express joy at the deaths of THOSE children.

Perhaps you can help us out be linking to conservative websites that have condemned the multiple calls for genocide that Gavin has posted here. And then link to liberal commentators who have rushed to join Frisch’s call that someone “Jon Benet” Goldstein’s child. Then, perhaps, your calls that it is LIBERALS who have degraded the discourse might be credible.

We all realize this is totally meaningless in the greater scheme of things except as a demonstration of the fact that few on either the Left or the Right are interested in engaging the other side in adult debate? Because we think they’re authoritarian chickenhawk fucktards and they think we’re Godless butt-fucking traitors? Right? Who in their right mind wants to debate a prick like Jeff Goldstein or a fatuous idiot like David Brooks? I have intelligent right-wing friends I can argue constructively with, but real bipartisan conversation in the public sphere is dead for the time being, thanks to decades of Wingnuts shitting in the punchbowl. Now that the left is flinging the turds right back at them, they do their predictable pearl-clutching kabuki bullshit, and we’re supposed to give a millifuck about their shocked sensibilities? Wingnut, please.

Here’s something to think about….

Imagine if there really WERE a left-wing equivalent to Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin. Imagine if there were some really big name leftie who routinely stood up and called for the President’s head on a pike, who wondered aloud why more people didn’t burn down conservative churches, who loudly declaimed that religious people were devoid of morals and a blight on the American landscape, who dreamed about how great it would have been if the fourth hijacked plane had made it to the White House – but only if everyone related to the Bush clan had been inside at the time.

Can you imagine the reaction they’d get, and not just from the American right wing, but from moderate, mainstream Americans who don’t really give much of a shit about politics?

Now, stop and think for a minute what it says about Americans that you don’t see an equivalent response to the one you just imagined every time Ann Coulter opens her hate-filled maw.

There are times that Americans make it easy to hate America, I’m sad to say.

Otto Man – “5 years”? Rush has been bloviating a lot longer than that, and his zombie army has been regurgitating it the whole time. A decade ago (longer, in some cases), this was par for the course – they’ve been doing it so long, they don’t even see the problem with it any more.

This is nothing new – and now that the f*ckers on the Right are getting a taste of their own medicine, they don’t like it. Waaaanh. Let them complain to someone who cares… I sure don’t.

I for one am perfectly willing to ‘raise the level of discourse’ – when I am no longer being called a traitor by their mainstream mouthpieces.

What rj said. If liberals had to denounce every stupid thing said on Kos or DU, and know about every post as soon as it goes up, we’d never get to gay-marrying terrorists and taking away your guns!

And if wingnuts had to denounce everything stupid said on their countless dumbass blogs, they would have to quit their day jobs as perfessers in Podunk, Tenn.

Intemperate, stupid shit gets said on blegs. The anonymity of the internets makes this happen far, far more often than it would in real life.

Plus, Goldstein’s cockslapping.

From Mark A. “Do you really believe that Frisch’s comments are acceptable? Do you truly want discussions to be at this level?”

No one here said her comments were acceptable. They have just been pointing out the hypocrisy of the right demanding apologies from the left for something they didn’t do. Pure silliness.

Let me provide you with a counter example to point out how stupid you sound.

When you posted in this thread, Mark A., did you condemn the actions of the conservative bomber Eric Rudolf? I’m sure I didn’t see it in any of your posts. Does that mean that you find his actions acceptable? By your logic you do. I just searched Goldstein’s and Malkin’s blogs for “eric rudolf” and I saw no apologies, and they’ve had years to get them up (in fact one of only two mentions of Rudolf on PW was by commenter SW talking about the SCOTUS’ Kelo decision, “That does it. I hate to go all “Eric Rudolfâ€?, but I want a constitutional amendment to take back the property rights the constitution used to protect.”. which could almost be seen as condoning his tactics).

So either you apologize, and get each and every member of the conservative movement to apologize for the actions of Eric Rudolf or we will simply assume you agree with him.

Mark A, you are a concern troll, plain and simple, and no we don’t want to convince you “that the “progressiveâ€? way is somehow superior:” we don’t give a damn that those who embrace, if not personally further, their own sides’ long-historied use of hateful and eliminationist rhetoric cluck their tongues because we weren’t condemnatory enough quickly enough for their delicate tastes because some nobody from nowhereville wrote something vile where we didn’t read it. If that’s too “they did it first” for your beautiful mind, tough shit; it’s called pull the truckload of beams from your own damn eye before you wring your hands over our speck.

[…] Well, not really. But hey, if two commenters at Daily Kos can stand in for the entire Kos community, then maybe someone left a comment somewhere about Frisch that can be blown up into a general indictment of all liberals everywhere. Or maybe Confederate Yankee means ‘the psychotic left’ in a literal sense — meaning some unknown community of people with clinical psychoses who coincidentally share progressive views with, you know, us. […]

Fantastic post. Anyone who still buys “The Left and Right are Equally Bad–Let’s Find the Middle!” meme needs to spend three hours wading in the wingnut cesspool, and another three hours trying to find anything one tenth of one percent as bad in the major outposts of Left Blogostan. The Left sure is funnier, though …

The level of discourse has been raised because “we have raised the level of discourse.

Go to hell, you self-righteous blowhard.

Oh, and fuck you.

When Ann Coulter is forced to close up shop and never open her pie hole in public ever again, then I’ll take the wingnuts seriously on this issue. The hypocrisy on the right is of the most rank sort. I am so fucking sick of those people acting like victims. They created an atmosphere of hate and fear in this country that I don’t know if we’ll ever be able to shake off. They can deal with the consequences when the hate they created comes back to slap its cock in their faces.

I really have no clue to who this Frisch lady is, I’ve never read her blog, nor do I intend to start. There is just too much to read already. That being said… I did read Confederate Yankee, and will admit to reading him a few times in the past, though mostly becuase I’ve found links to some of his more outragous attacks, and wanted to read the context. Unfortunately it appears that Con Yank only has one context: blow things out of proportion by pretending one persons actions prove all liberals are scum, and then drum up the hordes of pseudo-conservatives for attack.

So long as we are going that route, I’d like to point out that there are no liberal KKK members, in fact every one of them is a conservative christian. I, as an independant yet liberal idealist, find it difficult to pigeonhole every conservative, or every christian, as racist, murderous hooded Klansmen. But maybe if i can start thinking conservatively, I will manage to fit my head into that pathetic little box.

Ms. Frisch’s comments, while tasteless, are in no way a threat. If she was truly channeling Coulter…ughh, She was pathetically bad at it. Coulter wouldnt have drawn the line at not caring if something happened, coulter would at the very least hope that someone would do it, if not ask that someone do it. This is the harpy who wished the New york times had been attacked by terrorists, that called for the death or conversion of all muslims, and is currently being proven to have stolen much of her “best seller” writings on top of everything else.

Mark A.,

If you want to convince me that the “progressive� way is somehow superior, show me that the level of conversation can be elevated above
“All else aside, fuck you, you thin smear of human slime.”

To quote John Stewart’s response to Tucker Carlson accusing the Daily Show of doing “softball” interviews with Democratic leaders: “Dude, my lead-in show is puppets making crank calls! You’re on CNN!”

Why is it the responsibility of the kitten-war starting, video-battle escalating, Pastor-Swank-mocking proprietors of Sadly, No! to “convince” you that the “progressive way is superior”? Have you not noticed that this is a satire blog? (Of course, I don’t recognize you as a regular poster, so you may not have.) When you’re looking for rhetorical skill and eloquent debate on detailed policy issues, do you turn on Jay Leno or MacNeil Lehrer? Getting annoyed at Jay Leno for making wise cracks about people and flippant comments on important issues is stupid: that’s what he does. If you don’t like it, turn the show off. If you don’t like the satire of Sadly, No!, hit the BACK button and get on with your life. You’ll be happier, I promise.

Several people have already addressed the hypocrisy of the issue at hand and the difference in degree on each side. If you can’t see the difference between “some obscure person makes tasteless comments about not feeling bad if Goldstein’s kid were to die” and “a nationally syndicated columnist with several books and weekly TV appearances repeatedly advocates the extermination of Muslims and the execution of NY Times employees”, then you are either willfully blind or hopelessly stupid.

As far as raising the discourse, I have a suggestion: if you honestly want to engage in a philosophical discussion, don’t open with “You people have to stop talking like this if you want to convince me!” That is the hetorical equivalent of walking onto a soccer field and saying, “I won’t play with you people if you don’t play football!” The immediate answer will always be a defensive “Fuck you”–or the more rhetorically delicate, ” I’m sorry, I don’t recall inviting you to participate in our conversation.”

You might try opening with a question instead of a challenge, something like “I’m not up on the references here: can someone fill me in on the background of this debate?” Or maybe “Can you clarify your position on what’s-her-name’s statments? It sounds like your supporting her some places and not in others.” Heck, even “I think Goldstein has a point. Weren’t those comments out of line?”

If, on the other hand, you are not honestly inviting conversation and are just concern trolling, then, well, fuck you.

[…] It was unprecendented. I mean, it was the first truly mutual breakup in relationship history. « Give A Man A Frisch, And He Eats For A Day. But Teach A Man To Frisch… Jul9 […]

Is the victim of Frisch’s offensive words the same Jeff Goldstein who regularly threatens to slap people in the face with his penis?

Just checking….

This is the same Jeff Goldstein who’s fabricated a wife and child out of whole cloth. I don’t for a second believe this man has a family…or at least one that still lives with him.

For that matter, I don’t even believe his name is Jeff Goldstein. You’d think after all the outrages, someone would have gotten pissed off enough by now to air whatever dirty laundry of his they could find.

Of course, I could be wrong. That’s the beauty of being a liberal. Fearless when it comes to doubt and being wrong.

Gavin, you are a typical Leftist. You try desperately to demonstrate some moral equivalence between the Right and Deb Frisch. Unless you can show some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death or sexual perversion, you are simply blowing hot air.

As for publishing someone’s private addresses and phone numbers, are you talking about the Left publishing those of 10 or 12 Swift Boat Vets? Oh yes, there was the example of Michelle Malkin posting the names, email addresses and phone numbers of four Leftists at UC Santa Cruz, but then she was only posting what had already been posted by the Lefties themselves on a Leftwing website, as they solicited Leftist support to keep the US Military recruiters off their Commie Campus.

Now as for the dead children and the crickets, it might help if you gave some context to the photos. Who are these kids and who killed them, and what proof do you have of your accusations? I could, of course, point you to some websites that publish photos of the 300 murdered schoolchildren of Beslan, Russia, who were murdered by Muslim terrorists, the folks who are so often supported by the Left in their parades, protests and university events. See Zombie’s photo page if you would like some actual details, like the kind you never give.

In short, Gav baby, you’re full of shit and we both know it.

Stogie’s right, those kids were killed by terrorists. Everyone knows that US planes drop nothing but puppies in little parachutes and our artillery shells are made of candy canes.

Sigh. You know, there’s been a fair bit of discussion over whether these people
are actually lying or if they’re just stupid. My theory is that someone told them about Socratic irony and they misunderstood it as simply playing dumb all the time.

Unless you can show some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death or sexual perversion, you are simply blowing hot air.

Ok.

“…murdered by Muslim terrorists, the folks who are so often supported by the Left in their parades, protests and university events.”

Stogie,

I would have gone with, ‘the folks whose pictures you place under your pillows at night,’ or maybe ‘the folks who you worship in your temples of atheism,’ or ‘the people you are trying to get travel visas for so they can come to America.’ I mean if you’re going to make shit up, make it interesting. We’re lefties, we know what we do and what we don’t do.

Since you’re not providing information you should at least provide entertainment.

As for publishing someone’s private addresses and phone numbers, are you talking about the Left publishing those of 10 or 12 Swift Boat Vets?

HuffPost promptly removed the comments. (They can be seen here — telephone numbers and street addresses have been blocked out by TAS.) Asked about procedures to identify and remove threatening comments, Zaleski issued a statement, “Thank you for telling us. We were not aware since we receive over up to 10,000 comments a day. We are erasing them.” She added that the offending commenters will be banned.

Unless you can show some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death or sexual perversion, you are simply blowing hot air.

And thus a mighty straw man was built. You can tiptoe around it however you want, but the Right has built its entire rise to power around hate speech. One woman’s obscure rantings on a blog does not absolve you of all the hateful shit spewed by the Limbaughs, Coulters, Malkins and Goldsteinss of the world.

I could, of course, point you to some websites that publish photos of the 300 murdered schoolchildren of Beslan, Russia, who were murdered by Muslim terrorists, the folks who are so often supported by the Left in their parades, protests and university events.

Right, “The Left” is constantly having parades supporting murderous Muslim terrorists. You, fuckwit, are the one who is full of shit.

Sometimes the silliness of these Left-Right squabbles just makes me dizzy. I mean, was I supposed to be monitoring the comments over at Pasty’s? Was I supposed to be reading him?!? Um, eew! Sorry, don’t do it and I’m not gonna start now. I don’t even have enough time to read all the lefty blogs I’d like to every day, let alone start reading a bunch of wingnut ones. And they really aren’t worth the time and effort. If I’ve somehow run through every single leftist blog I might even consider perusing, I might (and that’s a really tenuous “might”) swing by “Balloon Juice,” since John Cole is sometimes more-or-less lucid… but only sometimes. Otherwise, Malkin, Goldstein, Powertoolz, Instacracker, Red State, Confederate Yankee?!? Fuggedaboutit!
Not to mention, I really don’t see what all of us piling on this woman at this point would accomplish. She discovered the true reason most people don’t make comments of a similar calibre on either side–it’s cost her her job. I doubt having all of left blogistan pile on her, telling her she’s a bad person, would have as much impact as that.

Unless you can show some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death or sexual perversion, you are simply blowing hot air.

Ok.

Pwned.

Now as for the dead children and the crickets, it might help if you gave some context to the photos. Who are these kids and who killed them, and what proof do you have of your accusations? I could, of course, point you to some websites that publish photos of the 300 murdered schoolchildren of Beslan, Russia, who were murdered by Muslim terrorists, the folks who are so often supported by the Left in their parades, protests and university events. See Zombie’s photo page if you would like some actual details, like the kind you never give.

Maybe you’re right. Instead of those photos showing four dead Iraqi children, here are photos of five other dead Iraqi children, who were killed by US troops.

Unless that’s the liberal media treasonously lying again, or whatever excuse it is this week.

*crickets*

Gavin, you are a typical Leftist. You try desperately to demonstrate some moral equivalence between the Right and Deb Frisch. Unless you can show some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death or sexual perversion, you are simply blowing hot air.

Stogie, I give you this from Orcinus… Here’s Dave’s post:

Gone whaling
Wednesday, July 05, 2006
I’m off to the islands with a pack of 5-year-olds this weekend. I may actually have a breaking-news post this weekend, so look for it, though I can’t promise anything. Otherwise, we’ll be communing with the orcas.

Here’s a comment typical of those left on the above post by a troll going by the name ‘Hippie’ who lists as his homepage ‘nukeisrael!.com’:

I hear Dave likes to lube his stick with whale grease while he packing 5 year olds. It’s okay dave we here at NAMBLA support you rights to love young boys…
Hippie | Email | Homepage | 07.09.06 – 10:14 am |

Any more questions? Or doesn’t this one count, seeing as he’s too right wing?

Reposted from TBogg’s comments this morning:

OK, here are some facts:

I don’t know what, if anything, these facts have to do with one another. I merely point them out, to put any more winger demands for liberal breast-beating in perspective.
# posted by Gentlewoman : 9:51 AM

Please take note of #5. As of yesterday afternoon, Pasty’s minion Pablo was trying to accuse an innocent person of these comments. I have seen no apology, anywhere, for this.

Mark A said
I’m really unhappy with the response to Frisch’s trolling and the pass she’s getting…

Hey guys! I’m here for the “Let’s Celebrate Frisch!” party! I brought the chips and guac!

Wait, this doesn’t look like the place…

Dear rj:

I never said I wished Christians would “die already.” I said “SOME wish they would die already.”

I got that from Fox News.

Regards,
Prof. L.Q. Bumblefuck
Dept. of Dinosaur Husbandry
NWKSPT
(“Go Fighting Three-Toed Sloths!”)

*end of pontification*

Man, I’m glad that’s over. No, but seriously, just to show you that us liberals can be just as grown up and civil as, say, you, Mark, on behalf of the Entire Liberal World, I want to apologize for the behavior of what’s-her-name, you know, the Arizona person who…said some stuff…yeah, her.

Happy now? Now please stop annoying everybody and go back to reading Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, and, yes, Jeff “Biggest Tool in Town” Goldstein.

Have a nice day.

Are we going to set up a betting pool on whether or not “Stogie” has the moral fortitude to come back here and admit he was wrong?

My money’s on “not in a million years”. Any takers?

If you want to convince me that the “progressive� way is somehow superior, show me that the level of conversation can be elevated above

Mark A –

Who the fuck said that any of us were trying to convince you of anything? I suspect we wouldn’t want you in our club anyway. You’d probably just drink all our beer and forget to flush the toilets. So thanks, but no thanks.

And regarding the superiority of the progressive way: If I gotta explain, you wouldn’t understand . . .

Hey Stogie,
“Go hunt them down and do America a favor. Get their photo, street address, where their kids go to school, anything you can dig up, and send it to the link above. This is your chance to be famous – grab for the golden ring. ”

Sure seems like “some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death”, dickwad. What you fail to realize is that some random cunt on a low traffic blog (that probably got around 2 hits a day before Cockslapper-in-Chief linked to it) really just doesn’t compare to say, mAnn Coulter saying that the best way to talk to liberals (read: anyone who doesn’t support Bush when he is acting suitably wingnutty) is with a baseball bat, or saying liberals are innately treasonous, or that Timmy McVeigh should have bombed the New York Times building. But I forget, you don’t even think that Ann is even nearly as bad as Deb whats-her-name, despite the fact that Debbie is a little known know nothing who can’t controll her anger against the rather nutty cockslapper in chief, and mAnn is a famous columnist with multiple book deals and more TV Sunday morning show appearances than Micheal Moore.
And about the dead kids, are you honestly suggesting that the US should willingly bend to the level of Checnyann suicide bombers? By the way, since I found evidence of a rightwinger calling for the death of someones children (or at least to have them implicitly ‘hunted down’), why don’t you provide us some evidence of a left blogger saying that the beslan bombings were fine and good, dumbass?

Nope, I didn’t know this was a satire site. My first visit — the latest batch of comments has provided me with plenty of evidence.

Great. Fuck off some more.

Evidence of what? That if the first time you ever cross the threshhold at someone else’s place you act sniffily superior and demand everyone act as you decree folks will probably think you’re an asshole and treat you accordingly?

Evidence of what?

Evidence that “potty mouth” ends up killing Iraqi children. Or supporting Saddam Hussein.

…or something. I frankly cannot tell anymore.

Plenty of evidence that your head is in your rhetorical lab, munchwad!

Stogie,

I think the editorial illustrations on your blog are masterful. I bow before you just as I did Timmy Gleason, who did a similar kickass job in my high school newspaper. I think he drew a slightly better devil than you, though.

I believe it might have something to do with the tits.

Actually, I meant “evidence that this site deals in satire.” Sorry you missed the meaning.

I don’t recall “demanding” anything, tigrismus. I stated my view and what I hoped for. You apparently know that you can “treat [me] accordingly” already since that’s exactly what you’re doing. I’m happy to see that you recognize the “superiority” I bring.

/sarcasm

don’t recall “demanding� anything, tigrismus. I stated my view and what I hoped for. You apparently know that you can “treat [me] accordingly� already since that’s exactly what you’re doing. I’m happy to see that you recognize the “superiority� I bring.

Oh, cut the crap. Do you know how condescending you’re sounding?

You’re not fooling anyone.

Guys, I’m having my “Al Qaeda Appreciation” parade tomorrow and I’d love it if you came. Floats will include “How To Turn Your Child Into a Fruit,” “Make Gay Marriage Mandatory,” and “Butcher All The Conservatives’ Children In Their Sleep.”

Oh, and Mark, you condescending little shit … go crawl back under whatever right-wing rock you wriggled out from under, asshole.

Your post was really well done but I’m unmoved about Deb Frisch.

Somebody upthread lukewarmily defended Deb Frishch’s comments at Protien Wisdom based on their guess that she was doing an Ann Coulter imitation that the pasty’s wingnuts didn’t catch on to. Could be and I sincerely hope so because that’s the only semi-rational explanation for her comments that I can come up with..

The fact, though, is really simple. Like her possibly immitative target(s) has done so many times, Deb Frisch went way over the line.

Of course we can cite the hundreds (or thousands, or more) times that the right wing trolls and bloggers have done the same or much worse and, Gavin, you did a scathingly admirable job of that. But Professor Frisch strikes me a bit like Representive Jefferson – he of the frozen cash stash – just now. He may be one of ours but we are not obligated to defend him by saying but… but… but, they were sooooooo much worse. It’s not worth the time and effort and it comes off legitimately hypocritical no matter how sound the point may be.

That Delay, Ney, Cunningham and the rubber stamp gang have demonstrated corruption indescribably more signficant and grotesque than Jefferson does not mean that Jefferson’s penny-ante corruption is defensible. That the GOP has created a byzantine culture of corruption in DC does not give Democrats any immunity if they chose to play in its darkned recesses. Quite the contrary really, Jefferson gave them the opportunity to shout “looky, looky, he did it too!!!” and I despise him for that.

That Goldstein and members have his posse have said and done worse does not excuse or mitigate Frisch’s comments. Nor does the fact that the nutjob right personified at PW and LGF created the distrubingly violent puerile cesspool that they now choose to complain about make me feel any better about “one of our own” wallowing in it.

So, after reading through Frisch’s blog and the PW comments and a few other wingnut references yesterday, I just wrote off Frisch. I am sorry she lost her job (resigned or whatever) but she really should have considered that she was posting sickening and threatening crap using her real name. I can’t muster much sympathy for the consequences of angry, pointless stupidity… no matter which side of the political divide it falls on. We don’t don’t need her that badly.. hell, we don’t need her at all. Until this current episode, she was not even on my radar screen or as far as I can tell was she on anybody’s radar screen except a few very nasty wingnut nerds at PW.

There is nothing that I could find in her blog posts or comments that were terribly brilliant or original and at times, her lefty trolling aside, she’s more than a bit tin foil hatty anyway. Futher, the apology that she’d offered up (as of yesterday, anyway) was much too equivocal for my taste — if you’re going to apogize, don’t do it while you’re still flipping that person off. Sure I’d probably choke trying to apologize to Jeff Goldstein too but, then, I would like to think that no matter how angrily or even profanely I disagreed with him, that I’d never put myself in a postion that would require an apology.

The comments might or might not be satire, they are not all input by the proprietors and can’t be taken as “evidence” of their intent in hosting the site.

Now, I read “Your decision to support Frisch’s comments with comments like “… Deb was not seriously threatening anyone in anyway. I was just going through her history at that site and she was very clearly playing the “trollâ€? role …â€? means that you condone discourse such as [her statements] … Do you really believe that Frisch’s comments are acceptable? Do you truly want discussions to be at this level? If you want to convince me that the “progressiveâ€? way is somehow superior, show me that the level of conversation can be elevated above…” as an indication that folks here had failed to adhere to some set of required standards as set by you, and an implicit demand that we change our behavior to suit you. Your next comment seemed to support that reading.

I certainly recognize the sense of superiority you bring.

All in all, it’s hard to consider you a sincere interlocutor when your first comment was universally condemnatory and based on strawman argumentation, and every comment after a variation on the theme “see, my predjudice was proven correct.”

That was to MarkA, not to Kay.

I love it when tigrismus batters up.

Kay: The problem is, we can’t win. If we bring up the blatant wrong-headedness of the right, they scourge the Internets looking for one guy in Bumblefuck, New Mexico that is a leftist and said something rotten. Who we then have to apologize for. And then can’t attack the right for THEIR wrong-headedness, boundless as it is, because they found That One Guy That Proves The Left Is Psychotic.

I don’t know who this lady is. I don’t care who she is. But the right’s managed to co-opt her as a shield from our atatcks on them because look, she said these bad things, so how can you target us, you hypocritical leftists?

Thanks, tigrisimus. I truly (no sarcasm) appreciate a thoughtful response that contains cogent criticism such as yours.

It is not my intention to hold anyone to my standards — I have a hard enough time adhering to my standards myself. I’m tired of the extraordinarily low level of dialogue around the blogosphere (see mal de mer and Kobie above). Aren’t you?

I take issue with dismissing Deb’s comments as “playing the troll.” I view trolling as a fairly simple and stupid activity in general although some can be very creative. Deb could undoubtedly call Jeff G. any name in the book, comment on his sexual prowess/IQ/table manners to her heart’s content without a blink from me — Jeff G. is publishing his own blog and elects to allow (mostly) open commenting so he knows the kind of trash a troll will talk.

I maintain it is over the line to attack the author’s family, pet’s, house, place of employment, etc. I disapprove in the extreme of anyone (other than the one involved in the conversation) calling someone’s employer or spouse or anyone outside the conversation unless there is conduct potentially over the line of “legality”. For example, those people who frequent Jeff G.’s site that sent email to Deb’s boss should butt out — they have no dog in the fight.

Do you agree with this? As Dorothy pointed out above, I should ask open questions here and seek your opinions. I want to know yours.

Mark A:

Did you see my post at 21:25 above? I consider this woman’s comments to be horrible and immoral.

Did you read #6 in that list? JG is not the only person that this has happened to. His response to the other occurrence was to post the personal information of the child’s father. Repeatedly. Now, do you think this was a responsible or a civil action?

Among the reponses of one of his minions (who may, in fact be the blogger himself, I don’t know) was (see #5 in the list) to go to a liberal blog and accuse that father of having posted these disgusting comments at PW.

Now, we have found out that this is not true.

Notice I do not bring in the many and varied horrors of the actions, political or personal, of other winger blogs. I confine my observations to the blog which has raised the uproar in this particular case, and drawn these other bloggers in to ‘defend’ him and his child.

Now, tell me again, you wish our response to this sort of conduct to be what, precisely?

Civil? Reasoned? What makes you think that whatever our response was, would make a fucking iota of difference?

Hey Mike A — nobody is condoning the comments made on Cockslap’s blog, you nitwit. What we object to is the blatant fucking hypocrisy of the wingnuts who expect everyone to the left of Joe McCarthy to publicly flog some lame-ass blogger nobody’s ever heard of while at the same time applauding hatemongers like Malkin and Coulter.

love it when tigrismus batters up.

No kidding. She’s a hero of mine

…you are a “she” aren’t you?

I posted my opinion of her statements in my first post, that what she wrote was vile. The fact that I have to repeat it seems to underline a point several have made today, though: no response is ever deemed sufficient. The woman apologized and lost her job, no one is cheering what she said, most are strongly disapproving. The one post that you call “dismissing” seemed explanatory rather than exculpatory to me, and is only one post.

As for your other point, sure I’d like to see the level of the conversation raised, but it won’t happen by scolding people into it, nor will it it happen by pretending nastiness from the until now unknown Psycho McProfessorly is representational of the entire left but Coulter, Limbaugh, Malkin, et alia are just great jokesters, what fun(not saying you are doing this, but it seems to be a common sentiment).

I’ve got to run, but I’ll get back to this thread tomorrow if you’d like to continue the conversation.

Yep. *blush* *scuff scuff scuff*

Now I REALLY gotta run!

I just remember the funniest thing Tigrismus said was when she accused Gary Ruppert of being a “selfish lover.”

…thank God for adult diapers. I can’t even think about that statement without pee’ing.

Thanks for your response, tigrisimus. Good stuff. For the record, I know of many commenters on various sites that are sick of all of the left and right blowhards. I guess we’ve lost our collective senses of humor.

Gentlewoman — I agree with you: posting someone’s personal information as a method of inciting attack (rhetorical or otherwise) upon them is wrong and should be condemned. I have said so on right-wing blogs and received a similarly warm response. While I could understand it if someone posted such information in response to having their own information posted first, it’s still wrong to do so. (I’m not saying it happened in any of these cases.) The difference? I’m trying to make one myself — civil discourse. It might be a lost cause but still worth trying.

Kobie — exactly where did I say that I

expect everyone to the left of Joe McCarthy to publicly flog some lame-ass blogger nobody’s ever heard of while at the same time applauding hatemongers like Malkin and Coulter.

Seems obvious to me that you’ll applaud whoever you want to. Both Malkin and Coulter have said some worthwhile things and some silly things — I’m not a cheerleader for either (or Rush, or Gore, or Beelzebub for that matter.) For example, Coulter asked a question the other day (I’m paraphrasing): “When is the New York Times going to get around to uncovering a secret al-Qaeda plot?” That’s a thoughtful question that I believe should be answered. However, she also said “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.” This was an indefensible statement that should be condemned by all sides. The fact that it has not been condemned by everyone is no excuse to give others a pass. (See JK47’s comment above.)

I maintain (again) that if anyone attempts to explain away Frisch’s implicit threats to Jeff G.s kid with “Oh yeah!?! Well the other side says millions of worse things than that” is, by failing to condemn her words, condoning them (or worse). If you disagree, I’d like to hear why. Calling me a “condescending little shit” and telling me to

go crawl back under whatever right-wing rock you wriggled out from under, asshole

accomplishes nothing but making you look foolish. If failing to respond to such silliness makes me “sniffily superior”, well, I’ve been called worse.

Fuck civil discourse.

Mark A: My point, which you seem to have missed, is that it is too late to play the civil discourse card.

It has become apparent to most of us that the wingers do not want civil discourse.

They want us dead.

If you haven’t realized this yet…well, you will probably realize it soon. Just keep trying out civil discourse on winger blogs, and see what you get back from them.

So, yeah. What Patkin said. Fuck civil discourse.

“When is the New York Times going to get around to uncovering a secret al-Qaeda plot?â€? That’s a thoughtful question ”

No, that’s an incredibly fucking stupid question. The New York Times is neither a law enforcement agency nor an anti-terrorism intelligence organization.

They have neither the resources, the training, or the expertise to uncover a secret al-Qaeda plot. One might as well ask when the Washington Times would do the same, or Coulter/Malkin themselves.

Jesus, is Mark A. still riding his high horse? Who breeds these people?

I agree with you: posting someone’s personal information as a method of inciting attack (rhetorical or otherwise) upon them is wrong and should be condemned. I have said so on right-wing blogs and received a similarly warm response.

Mark A,

Just Curious….

Have you ever read PW?

If you do read PW, did you say anything about Thers’s and his wife’s information being released, repeatedly? Did you care that the workplace of his wife was released? Did you care that their home town information was released?

Did you care that Jeff Goldstein repeatedly and gratuitiously posted this information on the front page of his blog in a direct response to things other commenters were saying on other blogs? It was a explicit strategy for him to try to shut people up.

He knew that it would shut people up, because that information was potentially dangerous to the physical saftey of Thers’s wife and his children. The picture of the children were on the blog. It would be easy to find the children with the published information.

And all this happened after the sexual comment had been made about their child?

Oh yeah – their children got death threats too. Do you care? Did you say anything at the time?
—————————-

Of course what this woman said was over the line, reprehensible, and ridiculous. However, we do not know the full name of Jeff’s wife or his wife’s workplace. We do not have specific information about the suburb or town in which Jeff lives. If we did, we would not post it on the web, to “win” a debate about literary theory.

Why? Because it is potentially dangerous and immoral.

Please note the people who thought it was acceptable to do such an act.

geoduck, if you are still here, I put most of that stuff in my comment waaaaaaaaaay up there at 21:25.

But it does no good. Willful blindness cannot be cured.

I know you know Thers and Mary, will you please tell them that they might want to speak to The Editors about the deleted Pablo comments from yesterday? Because he did accuse Thers of this, before it was known that it was this woman from Arizona.

I did not know about the death threats. This makes me even more disgusted with this conduct.

Good to see you, wish it could be under more pleasant circumstances 🙁

he did accuse Thers of this

This ‘he’ of course refers to Pablo, not The Editors! Sorry for any confusion.

Suck it wingnuts: this is what absolute moral authority looks like! My side gets to say whatever nasty shit it likes, and you have to sit there and take it. Because you killed Iraqis! Like your big scary enemy Sadam Hussein, before you. Now we get to make shit up against you, and it’s all an object lesson. Do you understand? Of course not, you’re stupid, as well as culpable for the war!

What is the point at all of showing dead children? It’s about as productive as trying to link you and your blog to dead North Korean children. Because, after all, you’re far enough lfet that you’re Communist. So, ipso facto, you’re linked to Kim’s dead. Right?

*crickets*

*crickets*

You managed to generate a long post without making a single cogent point, then attempt to wrap it up by implying that Protein Wisdom is responsible for dead Iraqi children?

Your commentariat is composed of confirmed idiots. You get what you deserve with posts like these. And it doesn’t escape anyone that you’re pussing out by not linking to this story at Jeff’s site, preferring instead to go to CY. You don’t deserve the plaudits you give to yourself. Pussy.

“My side gets to say whatever nasty shit it likes, and you have to sit there and take it. ”

Yep, and you get to slide your mouth under my aching asshole and take my hot shit down your throat. Swallow without chewing, you pimplefaced fag whiffer.

And LIKE IT.

I know you know Thers and Mary, will you please tell them that they might want to speak to The Editors about the deleted Pablo comments from yesterday? Because he did accuse Thers of this, before it was known that it was this woman from Arizona.

You mean Pablo was accusing Thers of being this woman?

Oh Lordy.

I hope I’m not making things worse for their family by posting now.

During the Recent Unpleasantness, Pasty was reposting the private information any time anybody posted about this.

It was an explicit threat to stop posting or the information would be spread all over the internet repeatedly. Of course, after a while the proverbial cow was out of the barn.

The potential danger was obvious, yet Jeff repeatedly posted the information, ignoring the immorality of his acts.

And he did all this in an effort to win a debate about literary theory!
—————-

Aside from that – I’m doing well. Over here we watched the world cub today. Being part Italian-American I was rooting for Italy. I wish I was in Boston today!

Awesome! More trolls!

Let’s see… we’ve got a parody troll of a leftist, well done, well done. And someone accusing Sadly, No people of communism and affiliation with North Korea! Also well done, especially since with guys like me around, they’re half right!

I like the phrase “commentariat” though. Can the guys in charge start using that as an actual term? Ironic and/or un-ironic term, whichever way you wanna run it.

you pimplefaced fag whiffer

Just out of curiosity, why is it that conservative types so often seem to think that “fag” is the ultimate in insults? Is it a total lack of imagination? Or serious unresolved same sex attraction issues?

And why do right wing queer boys/girls put up with it?

Yeah, I’m bummed, geoduck. I was all ‘allez les bleus’ 🙁 There’s a WC thread up top, btw. My eldest nephew is in Italy right now, bet he’s having a blast. Someone said up top that the North End is going wild! Good night to be in Boston, for sure.

Yeah, I’m bummed, geoduck. I was all ‘allez les bleus’ 🙁 There’s a WC thread up top, btw. My eldest nephew is in Italy right now, bet he’s having a blast. Someone said up top that the North End is going wild! Good night to be in Boston, for sure.

France was playing better then Italy, that’s for sure. The Italians looked tired.

Oh – it would be a blast to be in Italy tonight.

(I wonder if Conservative American men don’t like watching soccer because the male soccer players are Teh Hot? Hmmm…does it speak to their psycho-sexual issues that they need to work on?)

[…] I spent all day in Tijuana, and it turns out I’ve been pre-emptively banning some wanker named “Pablo” because I CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH! BEFORE I READ IT! WHILE IN MEXICO!!! Or, optionally: because I have a spam filter. Additionally: I have a spam filter. And: you are insane. Nobody who doesn’t meet the software criteria for probably selling kiddie porn and/or dick pills is banned. […]

“and you get to slide your mouth under my aching asshole and take my hot shit down your throat”

Sadly, No! you stupid little wanker. You are sitting in your momma’s basement typing away at the keyboard next to the washing machine. I am in my pleasant home far far away from your crappy little self, and nowhere near your diseased body, so what you are actually doing is jacking off and fantasizing like the sick freak that you are.

But, hey, whatever gets you off.

It’s actually a pretty good example of how little an effect nasty shit in comments has on actual people, absent the publication of personal contact info. Dogtown is sitting there in his fucking trailer, or whatever, thinking he’s affecting people, but actually he is all alone.

The trolls are out in full force tonight, boys and girls.

Mark A said,
I maintain (again) that if anyone attempts to explain away Frisch’s implicit threats to Jeff G.s kid with “Oh yeah!?! Well the other side says millions of worse things than that� is, by failing to condemn her words, condoning them (or worse).

Everyone is condeming it, and nobody’s attempting to explain away anything. However, the other side does say things worse than that. And the hypocrisy of the righty blogs going batshit because our condemnation-of-Frisch rate hasn’t hit 100 percent yet while Malkin/Coulter et. al. say things equally or more vile is astounding.

And why do right wing queer boys/girls put up with it?

I’m guessing they’ve seen what happens when they protest.

“When is the New York Times going to get around to uncovering a secret al-Qaeda plot?� That’s a thoughtful question that I believe should be answered. However, she also said “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.� This was an indefensible statement that should be condemned by all sides. The fact that it has not been condemned by everyone is no excuse to give others a pass. (See JK47’s comment above.)

As said above, it isn’t a thoughtful question at all. What it is is an accusation of treason. Or at the least an invitation to make the inference. Treason, is, by the by, a capital offense. Coulter is in effect saying that, the New York Times is focusing energy that it supposedly (which is spurious as explained above) could focus against Americas enemies against the United States and as such is aiding and comforting the enemy and are as such deserving of death. That you cannot see this and instead view this as a reasonable question goes to show how a quarter of a century of conservatives poisoning the well have made the discourse such that we could have people seriously say, in the United States of America, that the press should be prevented from printing the news under penalty of death.

What Frisch said was vile. But frankly, she’s nobody and I’m not answerable for her. What the right-wing does in this country on a daily basis is far more insidious, with for more potentially disasterous effect than what some fringe nutjob said in Jeff’s comments.

Mark A.,

Please look up the definition of “red herring” and “non sequitur”. If you’re going to insist on civil discourse, I have to insist that we actually follow the rules of rhetoric.

The main point of Gavin’s post was “Several right-wing blogs are accusing ‘the Left Blogosphere’ of threatening children because a) 2 or 3 commenters on D-Kos made some stupid cracks about Jack Roberts and b) we haven’t condemned some woman we have never heard for making crass remarks about Jeff Goldstein’s kid in comments to a blog we don’t read. I think this is hypocritcal considering the overall prevalance of actual threats and eleminationist rhetoric coming from nationally prominent right-wingers, including Goldstein himself.”

Your response was “But weren’t these comments reprehensible?” This is off topic. Whether or not these comments were “out of line” is not germane to Gavin’s point. Gavin’s point was that is it not fair to take ‘the Left Blogosphere’ to task for this woman’s comments because SHE IS A NOBODY and NOBODY KNEW ABOUT THESE COMMENTS, especially when well-publicized comments from the Right Wing Noise Machine(TM) are NEVER CONDEMNED by “the Right Blogosphere”.

And whether or not Ann Coulter ever has anything resembling a “valid point” is also completely and totally irrelevant. You yourself stated that her comments regarding Timothy McVeigh and the NYT building were out of line and “should be” condemned by everyone on both sides. THEY WERE NOT. ‘The Right Blogosphere’ DID NOT condemn her comments, and several bloggers even celebrated them. And when Coulter says things as bad and worse, she is still invited onto talk shows and signed off with comments like “Always fun to have you on, Ann.”

Do you or do you not think that this is hyocritical? When blogs like PW complain that the entire ‘Left Blogosphere’ (as if such a thing actually existed) hasn’t condemned this non-entity Frisch while simultaneously linking approvingly (or worse) to Coulter’s and Malkin’s and Limbaugh’s eliminationist hate speech, isn’t that the very definition of hypocrisy?

And if so, then Gavin’s point is QED. And at no point did anyone support Frisch other than saying “well, hell, she’s not as bad as Coulter”–which kind of gets right to the heart of that whole “hypocrisy” thing, doesn’t it?

Wow. Thank you. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Hmm… shooting your mouth off about not feeling bad if someone’s kid dies…

Directly threatening private individuals and helping to prop up a war that has resulted in the maiming or killing of innumerable kids…

Yup, sounds about equivalent to me.

eggzactly.

Also, I love it when Jeff whips me with his cock. His cum tastes like strawberries. Wouldn’t you agree, Pablo?

Are you trolls still hanging out? It’s late; y’all need some sleep if you want to be in good form tomorrow.

Well done, Dorothy. Your game is tight. Thread over, trolls vanquished.

I also love how the trolls answer the other trolls posts like they don’t know who’s who.

In effect, they are the brightest slices in the loaf, if you know what I mean, and I think you do.

Dr Moonbat?,

Um – I’m not sure if you’re the person who started this – but if you were: What in the world is going on with you?

1) A parent could feel threatened by your statements & they are not acceptable. Implicit or explicit physical threats towards adults or kids are not morally acceptable in my book.

Why do we need to explain this?

2) Your behavior is also self-destructive in terms of your job. (Unless you’re playing some crazy game with the blog-o-sphere, which wouldn’t unduly surprise me.)

There’s no defense for Ann Coulter.
There’s no defense for Goldstein’s comments.
There’s no defense for Frisch’s comments.

Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot. So is Michael Moore.

Lumping together all leftwing blogs is stupid. So is lumping together all rightwing blogs.

Many bloggers, like most politicians, are hypocrites.

Are we done now?

[…] My question is, are there voices on the right who are willing to criticize their own? Where are they? Gavin at Sadly, No! wonders the same thing. And it’s a must-read post, so head over there. […]

are we done now?

Nope. Because we’re still struggling with that “false moral equivalence” issue. Oh, and that “apples and oranges” issue, at least when it comes to the blogosphere, whereby well-known and well-read bloggers like Goldstein (or Michelle Malkin) get compared to total nonentities like whatever nonentity of the week Right Blogistan decides to blow up into Evil Moonbat Overlord this time.

Hey, where are the pictures of all the dead bodies we dug up in Iraq; y’know, the ones that Saddam gassed?

I mean, you’re all about blaming Americans for civilian casualties, but where’s the equal reporting?

Wanker.

Wow, so now liberals are to blame for Saddam Hussein.

Revisionist history is fun (and profitable)!

That sounds like a great idea…why don’t we ask the Iraqi people who they’d rather be killed by – Saddam or the *cough* Coalition of the Willing?

At least they expected it from Saddam…their “liberators”? Not so much. Hey, maybe that’s why they’re less than thrilled with our being there. Just sayin’…

Freedumb is on the march!

[…] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Leave aReply […]

Word’s getting around that, when all of this is over, Gavin will be revealed as the source of the DoS attacks on PW. It wouldn’t surprise anyone, given his perverse obsession with Jeff. You know, the kind that propels him to generate such long posts regarding Jeff’s site, or twist his logic into a pretzel comparing PW to slaters of Iraqi children.

And if/when this is discovered about Gavin, he’s going to have his ass drop-kicked all over the Internet. Enjoy Sadly, No! while you can, kiddies.

You can’t have civil discourse with people who want to murder you.

It’s amply obvious that the right wing would like to murder me – they say they want to all the time. Many (most?) of them would like to sexually humiliate me in some way first.

And these are the people I am supposed to value civil discourse with? I am supposed to be shocked and appalled when some idiot says some bullshit to them?

No, thanks. I’m going to keep a gun in the house instead, in case one of them has the guts to do what they claim needs to be done to keep America safe – murder me. Fortunately that seems to be pretty unlikely, as they all seem to be gutless ninnies that flail around and cry even at harsh language.

Word’s getting around that Dogtown’s an idiot who can’t tell one blogger from another and writes nonsensical and stupid shit like “he’s going to have his ass drop-kicked all over the Internet.”

Boy – I can’t wait until the Editors here at Sadly No! start editing or deleting your comments, Dogtown! Oh wait, no one here is a big Winger Pussy.

Nevermind.

I demand all right-wing bloggers distance themselves from the defamatory accusations and blatant threats of violence made by and the injury to the English language done by Mr/s Dogtown.

Boy – I can’t wait until the Editors here at Sadly No! start editing or deleting your comments, Dogtown!

Looks like Goldstein is busted again!

We never, never, never touch anyone’s comments, btw — except in the rare cases where someone is trying to post someone else’s private information or making credible (i.e. not loopy) threats.

Hey, where are the pictures of all the dead bodies we dug up in Iraq; y’know, the ones that Saddam gassed?

Oh, please. You know a wingnut is defeated when they say one of two things:

1. Saddam gassed his own people!
2. Clinton did it!

” That is the hetorical equivalent of walking onto a soccer field and saying, “I won’t play with you people if you don’t play football!â€? The immediate answer will always be a defensive “Fuck youâ€?–or the more rhetorically delicate, â€? I’m sorry, I don’t recall inviting you to participate in our conversation.â€?”

Actually, the immediate answer would be a Euro-supercilious “Fuck you, we are playing football. With our feet and everything.”

Um, since two comments on DKos constitute an attack by The Left on Jack Roberts’s sexuality, then I certainly think the comments by Gentlewoman and Kay (and others) here constitute absolute repudiation of Frisch’s idiocies by The Left.

Q.E.D. Now shut up, wingers.

Oh, and Dogtown, you might want to get some help with hygiene and cleanliness if your asshole is actually aching. Sometimes a little extra wipe can prevent that sort of soreness.

[…] The meme that she didn’t say these things is being accepted by some, including the serial Goldstein-hating obsessives at Sadly, No! […]

[…] Give A Man A Frisch, And He Eats For A Day. But Teach A Man To Frisch… […]

Hey Jason, I’m kind of busy this week. Maybe we’ll have to skip the whole murdering you, thing. But I’m still up for the sexual humiliating you bit, so just wait right there and I’ll be by in a minute. Do you have your own falafel, or should I bring some with me?

posted by the Lefties themselves on a Leftwing website, as they solicited Leftist support to keep the US Military recruiters off their Commie Campus.

Left left leftist lefty lefted lefter left-diddly doo!! Fuck fuck fuckety fuck the fucking fuckers.

HEY Asshat!! We don’t consider the word “Left” and it’s derivatives to be an insult! See, I AM a lefty moonbat. As you are a wingnut. But you are crackin me up!!

mikey

errr….given the 3 DDoS attacks on PW, i would say SOMEONE is supporting her. 😉

would you like some insight into your behavior and your responses to this drama? Cog neurosci and cultural anthro style.
defector theory
who’s the terrorist?

Where did you stand on the whole issue of BOMBING THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF KOSOVO?

Maybe you remember it. It was the time when US policy was to use military force to depose a dictator halfway around the world who posed no security threat to the US, based on intelligence that has since proven to be false or exaggerated.

Crickets?

Fuck you, indeed.

Genocide was false and exaggerated? Huh? Gotta link? And I mean a real one, not the Jerry Falwell tapes.

“Looks like Goldstein is busted again!”

Huh?

The word about you, Gavin, is coming from fellow lefty blog. Just FYI.

I’m so glad to hear that you don’t alter comments. Jeff doesn’t either, but that’s not stopping you and others, including Inside Higher Special Ed, from perpetuating the meme. Jane Hamsher, on the other hand, is a confirmed manipulator of quotes. And sh’e part of your nest of moonbats, no? Sadly, yes!

ha ha, a little reality for the reality based community–
whut the marines really think of you.

Do your own research, Wilhelm. JFGI.

Of course, it will also mean thinking for yourself. You won’t have the DNC propagandists to tell you what to believe.

now that is an ass-kicking Gavin.

The word about you, Gavin, is coming from fellow lefty blog. Just FYI.

Norbizness, if you’re out there, I’m sorry about the kitten strike, ok? We need to get past this, bro.

Phinn,

I googled it. Nothing, nada, zip. You obviously cannot provide a link because you’re full of shit. Not surprising.

If Sadly No DDoS PW you’d think there would be some…what do they call it….oh yeah, evidence?

All I’ve seen so far is unsubstanciated accusations…by trolls.

The word about you, Gavin, is coming from fellow lefty blog. Just FYI.

Norbizness, if you’re out there, I’m sorry about the kitten strike, ok? We need to get past this, bro.

Nah – Atrios is striking back for all those You Tube videos that you threw at him in the Late Great Blog War.

You Tube has a pernicious effect on left-wing bloggers.

Phinn, when you make an assertion, it is your job to support it, not anyone else’s to do your work for you. If you refuse to provide evidence when asked, it will often be taken as an implicit admission that you are entirely full of beans, if not some other substance viz. above.

“All I’ve seen so far is unsubstanciated accusations…by trolls.”

You’d think that a doctor would know how to spell. But…Sadly, No!

You don’t give a shining shit about evidence anyhow, chucklehead. Every time your hive mind on the left encounters evidence, you find a way to dodge it.

Your comments have disappeared from my site. This is an apparent technical glitch. Some guy named Shaun can’t post either. I see the comments in a spamcatching folder and tried to hand-recover them twice but it isn’t working. I’d e-mail you but can’t find your e-mail address. Anyway, wanted you to know I didn’t ban you or remove your comments. Comments have been screwed up for days, ever since I upgraded WordPress, and it’s a real hassle.

Ok. Things have been crazy today with this Frisch thing, so no problem.

It’s damn frustrating.

quote: Gavin M. “…Deborah Frisch…she’s nice.”

See, you totally defended her the whole time.

Claims of mass graves:

“we have upwards [of] about 100,000 [ethnic Albanian] men that we cannot account for,” (David Scheffer, U.S. State Department Ambassador at Large for war crime issues, one week before the bombings began)

“100,000 military-aged men have vanished” (U.S. Secretary of Defense William Cohen)

“As many as 225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59 [are unaccounted for]” (Ambassador Scheffer, beating the war drum)

Final tally: about 650.

And this isn’t Free Republic talking. Here’s a couple of lefty outlets that say the same thing:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0902-02.htm
http://www.thenation.com/doc/19991227/kenney/2
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=1152

Noam Freaking Chomsky on the Kosovo propaganda:
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200005–.htm

Accuracy in Media’s article:
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A3181_0_2_0_C/

But hey, I’m sure letting the DNC do your thinking for you is easier. Saves time, I guess.

I’m still not seeing anything….care to contribute?

Oh, that’s right…you were having the whine.

Gavin,

I think they’re all back up. Let me know if anything seems missing.

Some extremely vile quotes attributed to her [not reproduced above] seem to be made up. I know it’s shocking that wingnuts would simply make things up, but life is full of surprises.)

– That is simply a risable lie I would suggest you revise quickly. If you’re having problems in even trying to defend this obvious scum of a person, disembling doesn’t help the situation, nor do all the equivalency troupes, that deflect none of the vicious, uncivil comments she posted. Best course is to distance yourself, and your bog and commenters, as far as possible from this “person”. The entire manic episode was witnessed by a large group of commenters, and cached at the moments they occured, so really there’s nowhere to hide, and evasions and beside the point excuses, just temporize falsely, and make the situation even worse. But it’s your call sport.

Shrieks of non-existent moral equivalence – the last refuge of the liberal.

You folks ought to be embarrassed. If even one of you actually stood for what you claim to stand for – you would be.

No independent thought, no critical analysis. Not from one of you. Just a group-think reflexive defensive of THIS in the name of “progressivism”:

“I reiterate: If some nutcase kidnapped your child tomorrow and did to her what was done to your fellow Coloradan, Jon-Benet Ramsey, I wouldn’t give a damn. …Give your pathetic progeny (I sure hope that mofo got good genes from his mama!) a big fat tongue-filled kiss from me! LOTS AND LOTS OF SALIVA from Auntie MOONBAT, if you don’t mind! … Somehow, Jeffy boy, I think you get off on the possibility of Frenching your pathetic progeny, even if it is a boy.”

You defend THAT. That. Read what you stand for.

When mainstream Democrats wonder why they can’t win elections … here’s your answer.

nn – You seem to think that SN is some sort of DNC lovin echo chamber that loves Bill Clinton to death and has an agreement on every subject from Kosovo to Social security. Nothing could be further from the truth, you will find no other online community so willing to debate (sometimes headtedly) between longtime members on various points. If the substance of your links are to be believed, then Kosovo is nothing but another war based on false intelligence at best, and outright lies at worst. This war was a little before my time and I don’t know enough about it to make a point one way or another but I think the war in Iraq is more important to focus on right now, seeing as it’s still going on, and was more demonstrably based on intentional lies.

Keep accusing us of being a mouthpiece for the DNC, you’re only embarassing yourself. Most of us here are far to the left of the modern democratic party (we even have a few *gasp* frenchmen in our midst). And we all have personal opinions and values that often clash in the comment threads. Read back a bit and you’ll see.

See how Patterico and Gavin respond to each other late in this thread? If anyone ever takes the blogosphere too seriously, they should look at this thread to understand that this is all sarcastic, verbal flame-throwing, nonsense.

The more we rail against each other, deep down we all love each other.

Feel the love, moonbats!

That is simply a risable lie I would suggest you revise quickly.

“Seems to be” is what I said and what I mean. I’m also not trying to defend Deb Frisch, but to put this latest furball into context.

You guys have been doing this stuff for years, yet you shriek in concert when it’s done to one of you.

Either regulate your own collective behavior better, or toughen up a bit. It’s not a hard thing to understand.

I think they’re all back up. Let me know if anything seems missing.

Ok, thanks for coming by.

Why is it when I read the comments from the PW drooling minions I hear the theme from “Deliverance” in my head? C’mon, I can’t be the only one…

When blogs like PW complain that the entire ‘Left Blogosphere’ (as if such a thing actually existed) hasn’t condemned this non-entity Frisch while simultaneously linking approvingly (or worse) to Coulter’s and Malkin’s and Limbaugh’s eliminationist hate speech, isn’t that the very definition of hypocrisy?

Well, sure, that’s nice rhetoric and all, but I’ve search PW and haven’t seen Jeff complaining at all about anyone on the Leftyblogs saying anything or nothing about his run-in with that nut Frische. Not a word. Also, I don’t see an approving link toward anything inflammatory that Coulter, Malkin, or Limbaugh (Limbaugh??) wrote.

So when you’re looking up “non sequiter” and “red herring,” you might try and find the page on “unsupported assumption.” Or you could toss a link up there, if you’ve got anything at all.

“You guys have been doing this stuff for years, yet you shriek in concert when it’s done to one of you.”

Really?

Show us an example – from anyone – that can fairly be compared to this:

“Is it a girl? A boy? How old? I really want to devote some verbal attention to your tyke, the way your buddies have devoted verbal attention to me. I want to know what types of orifices your “tykeâ€? has, how big they are, etc. before I start my shpiel.

So if you could just tell me the AGE and SEX of your “tyke,� I’d be stoked!

Ooh. Two year old boy. Sounds hot. You live in Colorado, I see. Hope no one Jon-Benets your baby.

Are you still married to the woman you humped to produce the toddler?”

If nothing else, you pretend intellectuals ought to at the very least be perturbed that a member of your own intelligentsia sounds this … mundanely, profanely stupid. If the pedophilia and homicide don’t bother you, perhaps her grade-school vocabulary and repetition of words like “dude,” “bro,” and “mofo” would be enough to give you pause?

No?

Are any of you even capable of thinking for yourselves?

[…] But does that stop the folks from Sadly, No! from going to bat for her? Well, SADLY, NO! […]

Professor – Stop your nonsense. There is maybe 1 or two comments that even come within a hundred yards of defending those statements. The vast majority of commentors here (especially the regulars) have condemned those statements, as do I.

That doesen’t change the fact that the right has engaged in eliminationist and downright genocidal rhetoric far more frequently, and with a much greater degree of seriousness than even the most extreme of liberal sites.

If you want to play the “but one or two commentors said this>/i>” game, allow me a minute or two to pick any random thread in the danker areas of the right side of the interwebs and grab a few particularly sociopathic nuggets to throw in your face…

Anyway, noones seriously defending that lady here, but Anne Coulter gets a pass on your side for saying shit that’s just as vile, over and over, to make a buck. So save me the outrage at our little stain untill you clean up the massive pile of hippo shit over there in your yard.

whoops (close italics)

Ummmmmm…perfesser B: c’mon over here for a minute.

NOBODY ON THIS BLOG IS DEFENDING THIS WOMAN. PERIOD. CAN YOU EVEN READ?

Jesus Christ on a bicycle…let’s not even go over to some of the more infamous righty blogs and discuss the very real threats of bodily harm that are made against liberals EVERY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK. Or the fucktards that threatened to show up at liberal events with ‘axe handles’ (you know who you are). Your so called moral superiority is a sick and pathetic thing indeed.

Please feel free to paint all of us here with the same brush…you’ll get exactly nowhere. Hive mentality? For fuck’s sake, getting a group of lefties and liberals heading the same direction is like hearding cats. Jeebus.

(rant over)

A final plea:

Perhaps you now concede that, as a group, you simply do not stand for liberal values; that hatred is all you have left, and concepts like civility, responsibility, liberty, intellectual honesty, and professional integrity simply don’t concern you.

Fair enough.

Perhaps you truly believe imagined moral equivalence is an acceptable response to Frisch’s behavior; perhaps you think all conduct is excusable as long as you can pretend to find someone who “did it first.” Nevermind that you can’t find anything comparable – or that such arguments are fundamentally empty and left behind by most of us elementary school.

But fair enough.

But how about this – how about the fact that the individual you are still defending is now telling (and you’re repeating) verifiable factual lies that meet the legal definition of libel. There is no question that she is lying. Her comments are as recorded. They were viewed live. Her IP address is attached and the comments are cached.

She is lying – and you swallowed it.

Even if none of the rest, the pedophilia and threats of violence and antipathy to free speech (liberals believe what now?), the vulgarity and banality …. even if none of that bothers you …

… how about the easily debunked lie she’s making you repeat?

Anyone? Anyone? Is there an intellectually honest or intellectually capable one among you?

(cue those ever popular crickets)

Wait a second. There is one thing you just might care about. Here it is:

Do you think the good Dr. Frisch is going to make it more – or less – likely that Democrats will win elections in the fall?

If you have no moral or intellectual standards, you might at least consider the political. Frankly, people like Frisch (and many of you) are exactly the reason George Bush remains President.

Was that your intent?

Are any of you even capable of thinking for yourselves?

Hey Brad, Kos on the line. He says you haven’t mentioned Ned Lamont this week. Sounds kinda pissed. I’ll take a message.

Show us an example – from anyone – that can fairly be compared to this:

How about the thing about exterminating tens of millions of Muslims? But then, if we want to stay within the realm of personal threats, how about the call to hunt down the Times reporters and their families?

All in the post above. I’m too lazy to Google, yo.

This topic has become teh boring. Summary: Frisch is vile and crazy, and lefties have acknowledged as much while also pointing out that Goldstein and others on the right are often vile themselves and those now claiming to be outraged by Frisch’s behavior don’t care. Righties are outraged that lefties have the gall to talk about anything other than Frisch’s vileness. Everyone hates everyone and Frisch and Goldstein get the attention they crave. Next topic.

Please tell me how I have defended her…I’d love to hear it. She did something vile and incredibly stupid. Hmmmmm….that was reflective of the place where she was posting…Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know or care who this woman is – I sure as hell don’t support or defend her. I never heard of her before this past Saturday, but it sounds like she has been punished. End. Of. Story.

So why do you continue to defend your paste eating friend…or his brothers over at LGF?

Moral standards indeed.

Gavin M. said,

July 9, 2006 at 20:57

Unless you can show some Righty threatening someone’s toddler with death or sexual perversion, you are simply blowing hot air.

Ok.

– Now Gavin, show us all some of that vaunted “progressive” talking truth to power, and put in writing the “truth”.

-Thersites saw he had gone over the line, and floated the idea that the said post “was most probably one of Jeff’s own bloggers”. Jeff, and several commentators requested the URL of the commentator for a week or more, and Mr. Thersites was MIA. We never did find out. So why present that as a fact? Misrepresentations just dig the hole deeper, but apparently you have the same desease as found on so many other Left sites. When you have nothing, repeat rumors and outright lies.

– Any response?

Professor Blather,

The woman appears to be a nut case who craves attention.

hmmmm…what could be worse then a nutcase threatening children???

I know!

1) a commenter makes a sexually threatening statement about your two year old girl after searching the archives for pictures of her.

2) A paste-eating blogger knows that this happened in the middle of a debate about literary theory.

3) For reasons and justifications known only to himself, said paste-eating blogger front pages the full name and workplace of the mother of said girl. And the full name and workplace of the father of the girl. And their e-mail addresses. And their home town.

(random other nutcase on paste-eating blog posts speculation about the description of their car.)

4) He repeatedly posts this information when other commenters posted on other blogs. Note- he was not posting this private information in response to things said by the child’s parents, but in response to what third parties were saying on blogs like Eschaton.

5) Parents get death threats about said two year old child.

6) Paste-eating Blogger continues to threaten to re-post the work and home information of said parents if anybody posts something about the controversy.

Any right wing response?

No?

*Crickets*

*Crickets*

*Crickets*

“This topic has become teh boring.”

Yeah, that’s usually the way it goes when someone brings up those oh-so-uncomfortable things called ‘facts’

Jeff, and several commentators requested the URL of the commentator for a week or more, and Mr. Thersites was MIA. We never did find out.

Blogger wouldn’t release it without a supeona.

You nitwit.

I think what people don’t get is that Deb the wacko was a (psychology!) professor at a large university. If she were just a random nut blogger/commenter, she’d most likely have been dismissed as a harmless crank, just as we all dismiss leftwing and rightwing wackos on every blog. But she picked a nasty, unprovoked fight (with someone who has a long history of demonstrating the leftward tilt of academia), announced her intentions to piss people off until she was banned, linked to her blog, proudly stated her academic bona fides, made those horrific comments…and it outraged most sane people that such an obviously sick twist would be allowed anywhere near college kids (let alone instructing them about(gulp) choice-making??!!).

That’s what separates her from Dr. Wacko the TruthBringer, the troll at your fave political blog. She was clearly a nut in an occupation where insane wackjobs need not apply, and that’s what led Jeff to engage her, which led to her Frisch-ing herself right betwixt the eyes. Which is why we’re still talking about it.

Again, Jeff obviously thrives on this sort of controversy.

And so does the nutjob who posted on his blog about the child.

They are both loving this.

Now, see Phinn, that was pretty good, thanks. But it looks like 650 is not the only number: the totals I saw at most sites were far higher than 650, and estimating much higher final totals as they are still finding graves.

Heck, not even your links all say 650, most are higher.

Still, Iraq is happening even now, Kosovo is done and sadly can’t be undone. Dangit, it’s all too depressing. Maybe as a species we’ll grow the heck up and quit killing each other. Godammit.

I think what people don’t get is that Deb the wacko was a (psychology!) professor at a large university.

She was, apparently, an adjunct. (read- temporary worker.) And she apparently didn’t want to work there any more. (Does she sound sad that she can’t work there anymore? She doesn’t even live in AZ.)

I think she wanted to quit her job and this was some sort of creative way for her to do it & gain attention at the same time.

Like I said – she’s a nut job. And you right-wingers are her dupes, playing her game and giving her exactly what she wants. Then again, it looks like you all are enjoying this controversy, too.

Any response?

Yup.

Either Thersites was lying to us, or Goldstein compounded a seriously awful act with a willful violation of the Online Integrity Pledge he signed.

What isn’t in doubt is that Goldstein himself posted Thersites’s private information on his blog, violating the pledge.

Now, if someone wants to call Thersites a liar, talk is cheap. But there is no doubt or discussion that Goldstein posted his private information AFTER someone was allegedly threatening his two-year-old child.

If there’s something twisty or unclear about that, it fails me to find it.

Blogger wouldn’t release it without a supeona.

You nitwit.

Ahhh. Of course, which in turn then gives Gavin the perforce to post it as fact. You can always be counted on Geodumb. Thank you.

– And Gavin, maybe the judicious use of words such as “purported”, or “alledged”, might improve the willingness of Conservative readers to absorb your articles with less doubt. You think?

And Gavin, maybe the judicious use of words such as “purported�, or “alledged�, might improve the willingness of Conservative readers to absorb your articles with less doubt. You think?

It seems unlikely that this could be the magic bullet I’ve been so diligently searching for.

Um, Big Bang Hunter,

Don’t take my word for it – ask Blogger what their policy about releasing IP addresses. (And Thers has previously posted this information on the web, you nitwit.)

(Of course, you are invested, for your own reasons, in not believing what I say. After all, what would it make you, if you actually believed that family got death threats? How would you judge yourself, and your defense of the multiple times that Jeff released the information about the mother and the father? And I would love to know how you rationalize releasing information about the wife.)

Didn’t it bother you, at all, that they received death threats when there was some nut job sexually threatening their two year old? Or are you only bothered by people who threaten Jeff’s two year old?

As for me – I am profoundly disturbed with anybody threatens somebody else. And threats towards children are particularly disturbing and upsetting.

——————–
And one advantage a bloger has in dumping Blogger for other service providers is easier access to IP adresses.

Hmmmm…. “nitwit”, twice no less. I take it dinner is off then…..

– Seriously, I agree with everything you said, other than the lame ad hominems. Unfortunately it still doesn’t go to my point. But never mind. As I observed in the hueristic discussions so clearly, logical rather than emotional, is not your strong point.

Your point seems to be that Thersites might be lying and/or can’t prove anything, therefore it’s okay for Goldstein to go into one of his periodic tizzies and publish Thersites’s personal information.

If that behavior is okay with you, then you’re the one who ought to be ‘defending’ Deb Frisch.

I’m not kidding. The bedrock foundation of ethics is the Ethic of Reciprocity. Without that, you can’t claim an ethical standpoint.

Hmmmm…. “nitwit�, twice no less. I take it dinner is off then…..

Well, ninny was also an option, but I thought I’d go with what worked.

Besides – you wanted a dinner invitation after “GeoDumb”? Granted, I’m a mollusk, and thus do not have much brain power – but Geodumb? Those are fighting words.

I’m just a mollusk – so see what Gavin said at 22:24.

What I would say if I were more well-spoken.

Geo … Sorry….I’ll display some of my tough skinned nature in the future and refrain from slights…. Besides, I don’t care what anyone says about you, you a good gal…..

– Gavin – I Actually I think posting personal info of any nature online without the express permission of the target should be a felony…. no matter who does it…..

– Incidently Gavin, you might take a gander at Jeff’s latest post to get a feel for the manner in which “this person” is proficiously trying to defuse the situation. I’d hate to think that this behavior is the new bar in link whoring, but it’s not looking too good.

Big Bang Hunter,

You don’t need to apologize – after all, I called you a nitwit.

And you did see me loose it when Ther’s daughter was potentially threatened. I felt bad for over-reacting & causing more problems for that family. No doubt, if somebody wants to see me go mama bear, insulting a kid is the way to do it.

Verbal threats on line are just ridiculous, loony and potentially dangerous. And it looks like people are starting to use them as a standard way to troll.

I think this woman is enjoying the attention & I speculate that she 1) wanted to quit her job or 2) has some serious mental problems. (Of course, both of the following are a possibility.)

She sounds like a loony toon & we should probably stop giving her publicity. She could be potentially dangerous or she could be harmless – who knows?

Big Bang Hunter,

I agree that this women is not trying to de-escalate the situation. Then again, she doesn’t seem particularly stable, so perhaps this isn’t surprising.

I read your comment at 23:03 and went over to PW. I clicked on the link that he posted. It’s active. It not only shows a picture of two women, but there is also a little kid in the picture.

I can’t do anything about this, so I’m just hoping that people are all hot air and won’t act on their anger. Perhaps Jeff implicitly trusts everybody who links to his site? I think posting this picture is unwise and potentially dangerous.

Kosovo is done and sadly can’t be undone

I think what you mean is Kosovo was done while a Democrat was in the White House, while Iraq is going on while a Republican is in the White House. That’s what’s eating you. Admit it.

Which brings me back around to my original point — we have, on the one hand, a gutter-slime piece of Leftist human-shaped garbage (i.e., this Gavin person) who wants to stand on the deaths of Iraqi children in order to get in some back-door dig against the political camp of a blogger whose child was threatened with death and/or molestation.

That’s a stretch. Cause, the way I see it is that the bombing of Iraq has almost nothing to do with a personal threat to one’s toddler. It seemed like Gavin’s bile was merely bubbling over a bit, his seething hatred of all things Republican.

Which is fine, of course. My point is that what Gavin is telling us when he says these things is obvious: that he is a MAN OF PRINCIPLE. He will not countenance the deaths of children! He is morally superior!

Fine. Let’s hope it’s true. He should, at the very least, let us know where he stood on the high-altitude bombing of a distant country to depose a non-threatening dictator based on misleading intelligence.

You know, that time when a Democrat was dropping the bombs.

On kids.

(That’s the problem with high-altitude bombing, you see. It keeps your poll numbers higher than with ground wars, cause you don’t end up with too many photos of American troops in body bags. But you also get bombs dropped in a lot of non-military places.)

– As I commented earlier – personal information, of any nature, unless by the person themselves, which I happen to think as a long time denizen of the net from back in the days when it wasn’t so world wide, is in itself inadvisable, should be out of bounds, and actionable, if abridged. To sink so low as to bring a child into it, is simply indefensible by anyones standard.

– The bad news is that, as you mentioned Geo, this seems to be occuring with greater frequency, and is a testiment to the tendency for people who fancy themselves “adult” to abuse freedoms when they have them.

– The good news is that in the end, taking the assumption that this was indeed an excersize in link whoring, “this person” will now find that getting your foot in the recognition door is 1% of the effort. The real test comes when you have to produce, show whether or not you in fact have anything worthwhile to offer your readership, and lacking that she’ll melt back into obscurity.

– My own feeling is that anyone that could jusitify this sort of “uncivil PR ploy” as a means to an end, is lacking in both Character, and most probably, good writing skills as well.

I really couldn’t care less for the tit-for-tat accounting of whose side is altogether less civil in the blogosphere. Such tallying would take millions of years and probably end with a tie following a headbutt to the chest provoked by a personal insult, etc. And hypocrisy? Shit, that’s as fundamental to blogging as HTML code. For every Jesus General there is a Liberal Larry, for every Michelle Malkin a John Avarrosis. And part of the fun is ranting maniacally and heaping personal abuse on others like one would in real life but for all of those social norms.

What’s really entertaining about this whole episode is watching Frisch, commenting under the name of “southwestpaw”, break down in the comments section of Protein Wisdom rapidly over the course of just a day or two. She started out just being a troll leaving comments so stupid one would be forgiven for thinking whe was doing satire. Quickly she progressed to one on one pissing matches with other commenters, then to whailing about blogger ethics, then bizarre attempts at ingratiating comedy, then onto the Ramseying. It kind of reminds me of Louis Wain’s portraits of cats that he painted at various stages of schizophrenia. Fascinating really.

Personally, I think Deb needs help–at least she might want to thumb through her own copy of the DSM IV for some self-examination. Jeff already has his Klonopin and Guinness, so he should be fine. Threatening a cockslap or making “your sister/mama” jokes is stupidly fratboyish, but Frisch does take the prize for all around creepiness. The rest of us, we’re all churlish assholes.

Phinn, those links were nice. But they are maybe more credible than the Freeper sites. A socialist journal?! Come on! Chomsky? If this story is so big, why hasn’t it been picked up in the L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, Dallas Morning Star, etc.? If the fraud is that ginormous, then why hasn’t this news blown up all over CNN, Fox, and MSNBC? Better yet, what has been your point? That the current mission in Iraq has better principles than the Kosovo mission? Last time I checked, Kosovo was a mild wind compared to the tornado in Iraq. Iraq has been much more costly in human life and American integrity.

Phinn, fuck you you worthless piece of shit. You reach back into the past to try to call the kettle back and only make it crystal clear you’re such an inhuman waste of skin you don’t give a flying fuck about any loss of life except to make your goddamned point. I’m sorry, truly sorry those lives were lost no matter who is to blame, no matter what party those responsible belong to, and wish there were something I could do to change it. For all your faux outrage at Kosovo and diminishment of what happened to the Albanians, you and yours slavishly support a a regime currently engaged in wanton bloodshed, about which you say and do nothing or worse yet actively support, yet some unknown psychotic moron is enough to get you fat useless asses to rise up. And THAT was Gavin’s point, Einstein. Now I’ve wasted enough of my life on you, a mistake I won’t ever make again.

To whoever owns this site, that was a useless, vile post. You should find something else to write about, and forget the dopey academics.

[…] The fun is at three threads, here, here, and here. Go say hi. […]

[…] And so the nuts drew their chalk and began furiously sketching for victory. Fortunately, the bravest soldiers from Southpaw had a few powerful tricks up their sleeves. The well-tanned wizard Retardo Montalban cast his anti-hypocrisy spell. TBogg, the mighty stallion, rose up majestically over the nuts to show them the tiny nature of their complaint. Gavin M. from the Southpaw berg of York reflected a mighty mirror into the eyes of the nuts, casting their own evils back at them. […]

Yanno,…I am old enough to remember a time when the Right and Left in this country were able to work together, at least to some extent. The two magor sides of the political areana then had the ability to “agree to disagree” in most areas of political and social dicourse. There were exceptions of course,there always have been; it is to be understood I am painting with a very broad brush here, for brevity’s sake.

But now… the rancor and vitripution and incipient violence I behold in my fellow countrymen reminds me of nothing so much as how Slaveholders and Abolitionists looked upon each other in the 1850’s.

Recall that both sides of that debate were adamantly convinced they were in the right and that thier views had the blessings of heaven.

Look what it took to settle it: two thirds of a million dead; in a country that had but a tenth of it’s present population.

Are we sliding toward another Civil War?
I hope not…
But my hope dims with each passing year.

Oh for god’s sake, this is ridiculous. Yes, her comments were vicious, but this is the internet, where insane rants are painfully common. She wasn’t threatening anyone, and for anyone to lose her job over this is absurd. If being uncivil is ground for unemployment now, let’s apply that standard evenhandedly. This reminds me of David Horowitz being interrupted iin mid-psychotic rant by a pie in the face. Immediately, Mr. Belligerant stops screaming about killing Arabs and falls to teh floor, whining, “ooh! I’m hit! I’m hit! The cream is BLINGING! My EYE! WHAAGGHHH!”

Either Thersites was lying to us, or Goldstein compounded a seriously awful act with a willful violation of the Online Integrity Pledge he signed.

Oy.I’m not sure what I could have said to you that would be untrue… for those interested for some bizarre reason in the details of what actually happened, Bas-o-Matic explains it here and here, complete with links and direct quotes.

What happened. I was poking one of JG’s more self-righteous & ignorant & persistent imps with a snark-fork, and this imp blurted out the now-notorious comment. Now, the imp was anonymous, but the remark itself was in the same imp-idiom as the person I’d prodded. OK.

So I got pissed. I felt, as most people would, that a line had been crossed from bloggy smack talk into real obscenity. In this moment of anger, I wrote a post that juxtaposed the comment with one of JGs cruder (though typically labored) “disses” aimed at my person.

But after my initial anger passed, in something like an hour, I posted an update saying I didn’t think JG or his commenters had any responsibility for the comment. And I went further. I asked people over in Eschaton comments not to make hay with this. I emailed some people privately and asked them to let it go. I deleted a post about the comment one of my co-bloggers had left at another site I started, Online Blogintegrity.

Later, at JG’s request, I added another update to say that while I thought, as I still do, that it was a PW commenter who made the comment, I also explicitly said that the responsibility for the comment laid solely with that specific commenter, and not with JW, his commenters, the Right, Elvis, ninjas, or anyone else. My exact words: “Upon final thought I do think it was one of his commenters who said it, but that’s not reflective of anything or anyone beyond the fact that whoever said it is a sick little bastard who deserves scorn. And I have no desire to think about this any further.â€?

I did this specifically because I found it creepy as hell that my child might be used as fodder in a blogwar.

The result? I was accused of making up the comment myself to discredit the entire Protein Wisdom community, because of this retarded “give us the IP!” nonsense.

Why didn’t I give the IP? Well, because I’d said it was over. Why would I care about the IP? I’d also said it was about an individual, and not anyone else, so what the fuck? More, it occurred to me that if I got the IP, what the fuck would I do with it? Buy a plane ticket to wherever this idiot lived and hit him with my penis? The comment was gross, but not actionable. But mostly, after I’d gotten over being pissed, it occured to me that I just did not give a flying fuck. Some random dumbass on the internets said something gross. Alert fucking Judy Miller. (I did at one point say I’d contact Blogger the next day, “and then we’d know,” but the next day I again decided I didn’t care that much.)

More than that. This may come as a shock to some, but I really do not want to get anyone fired or harrassed at home or even by email, no matter what shit they spout online, even about my kids. My beautiful, funny daughter was insulted by what is in the end a bunch of anonymous electrons. What does that really have to do with her? Nothing. Internetty revenge is for weenies. The line I draw between my private life and my online life may be wider than others draw it, but there you go. I’m fine with my ethics, and I don’t need to sign a pledge to affirm my sense of right and wrong.

Of course even there, there is a limit to everything. I found out that Blogger needs a subpoena to release IPs for comments because I contacted them about a pretty freaky threat referencing my kids that came as a comment to my new blog. I reported this, and then found out about how uncooperative Blogger can fucking be. Using other means I’m pretty sure that the threat came through a stolen foreign ISP. So the irony is, after all that shit, providing the IP was impossible.

I find this all extremely annoying. I called JG names. I called his scholarly notes shit. I called his commenters slime.

I have never lied about one fucking thing.

Wow, you nailed us there Matoko, even though you’ve never had contact with another actual human, you know so much about these foreign species. There’s nothing a marine loves more than a cheeto-eating chickenhawk who’s sitting on his ass clutching his…mouse while the 18 year old kids in his platoon are being killed for no fucking reason. Marines IDOLIZE chickenhawks. Nice to know you’re someone’s hero, huh?

Perhaps you now concede that, as a group, you simply do not stand for liberal values; that hatred is all you have left, and concepts like civility, responsibility, liberty, intellectual honesty, and professional integrity simply don’t concern you.

There will be no concession. Sorry to disappoint. Values, liberal and otherwise, are a constantly shifting thing. Conservative values, religious values, trade values – all respond to the ebb and flow of public opinion, cultural change and economic incentive.

Civility is required to enter and spend time in my home – even young children keep a civil tongue here. But only a fool remains civil to those who wish him harm. Momma didn’t raise no fools. I have intellectual honesty (and, honestly, I should be studying for my biology test) and professional integrity. I expect those with whom I have discourse to engage in an honest fashion. But I don’t get bent out of shape when they use slang, vernacular or profanity to do it, providing there are no children around. Why? Because these types of words have been used for centuries to express frustration, anger, fear, outrage, and the particular explosion that occurs in the brain during an orgasm. They are only assigned meaning when we invest in them on a personal level. So some troll talking about shitting down someone’s throat (no hatred there…) doesn’t really phase me; it just seems sad and sort of stupid but generally disconnected to the actual discussion. Listen to any townie from Worcester if you want to hear every iteration of the word “fuck” and you will come to filter those things out and only hear the words that have assigned value. And so, in a way that delights and frustrates even my closest friends, I return to values and the way they shift depending on the current climate.

For the record, the bitch who talked trash about someone’s kid is a fucking idiot and should be shunned. ANYONE who does that should be shunned. Also for the record, anyone who publishes someone’s personal information whether or not it can be found elsewhere is a fucking asshole and should be shunned. And anyone who routinely calls for the maiming, death, or bodily harm of any other person or group of people in an off-hand, callous or, hell, any fashion is truly sick and should be helped into therapy, preferably in a place that keeps them from presenting a danger to the general public. That’s pretty much all that needs to be said about that, right? We square now?

This episode demostrates what is wrong with political discourse in the United States today. . .Our society and government are in such disarray because people on the opposite ends of the political spectrum have no respect for themselves or their fellow citizens. To quote Jon Steward: “Stop. You’re hurting us all.”

This is not a “can’t we all just get along” plea, this is a “Why is everyone so angry all the time? Are we that dissatisfied with everything?” legitimate question. Also, I would suggest that if people are as dissatisified as their writings suggest (what good are you doing, anyway, preaching to the converted?) perhaps some self-reflection on constructive ways of solving the issues surrounding that dissatisifaction would be helpful

And seriously, if you are that unhappy — unhappy enough to call others foul things and use language that would make a Marine blush — it’s not your political opposition (for those of you on the right) or who is in power (for those of you on the left) that are the problem, the problem is you.

“If they ever decided to go up against someone with power or the ability to fight back… But why speak of things which will never be? These are cowards and bullies, the worst of America.”

Ya know, I don’t have a dog in this hunt. But I find the above sentiment by Gavin interesting.

The someone with the power or ability to fight back, will he, like, blast them out of existence? Take ’em to court? Be nastier or more clever than they in his retort? What are you trying to say exactly?

The reason I am asking is because from what I see on these blogs, and I visit liberal and conservative sites, there is no convincing anyone of anything, if they don’t already believe it. It is almost the exact same thing at every blogsite.

Nobody wins these things. No one is being converted. What they seem to be in the main is a good way to preach to the choir, a convenient way to discuss events with like minded people.

So, what did you mean, Gavin? I am just curious.

Um. All right, I’m grumpy.

I hereby state sincerely I have no complaint with anyone at Sadly No, consider them friends, and I hope nothing I’ve said can be construed otherwise.

Eddie Money sucks.

Imagine if there really WERE a left-wing equivalent to Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin. Imagine if there were some really big name leftie who routinely stood up and called for the President’s head on a pike, who wondered aloud why more people didn’t burn down conservative churches, who loudly declaimed that religious people were devoid of morals and a blight on the American landscape, who dreamed about how great it would have been if the fourth hijacked plane had made it to the White House – but only if everyone related to the Bush clan had been inside at the time.

Ummm….Jillian….isn’t her name Randy Rhodes? Isn’t she on some wacky station called “Air Amerikkka?

p.s. Eddie Money REALLY sucks.

#

Jean said,

July 11, 2006 at 6:32

Wow, you nailed us there Matoko, even though you’ve never had contact with another actual human, you know so much about these foreign species. There’s nothing a marine loves more than a cheeto-eating chickenhawk who’s sitting on his ass clutching his…

Hey Jean: You CAPITALIZE the word Marine. Semper Fi, and fuck you all.

Eddie Money sucks about as much as anything has ever sucked before, now that I think about it.

It appears no one paid but scant attention to my earlier post.

I didn’t yell, I didn’t cuss (though I can assure you that I can cuss more intelligently, at greater length, without repeating myself than any of the exemplars I have discovered here.) and I didn’t call anybody names.

I suppose that makes me too boring. 😉

If this story is so big, why hasn’t it been picked up in the L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, Dallas Morning Star, etc.? If the fraud is that ginormous, then why hasn’t this news blown up all over CNN, Fox, and MSNBC?

This is an excellent opportunity for you to start using some of that independent thinking I mentioned earlier. Rather than have your conclusions pre-chewed for you into an easily digestible paste, try figuring this one out for yourself.

Better yet, what has been your point? That the current mission in Iraq has better principles than the Kosovo mission?

Sadly, no.

My point is that the Leftist mantra for the last several years, which has been focused on painting the Iraq war as the Worst Military Action In Human History, is stunningly, jaw-droppingly, laughably hypocritical, inasmuch as this nugget of narrative comes from the fucking DEMOCRATS, who, as recently as 1998, blithely set off to do THE EXACT SAME THING, complete with all of the added media-rich bonuses of misleading intelligence and dead children.

For just a second, think about the OUTRAGE you think you feel over the Grave Injustice that is Iraq, the magnitude of your feelings on the subject, the fact that in your mind it is the most horrid, wretched, end-of-the-world series of events ever to befall the human race.

Now, open your mind to the possibility that all of these feelings, all of this ill will, all of these conclusions that you have reached about Iraq and Bush were synthesized by a vast network of DNC propagandists who know EXACTLY how to manipulate you. They know how to get you to parrot the line that they want you to repeat, how to get you to see the world as they want you to see it, how to get you to remember the things they want you to remember.

The thing is — Iraq is indefensible. It was and is wrong. It is horrible and never should have happened. But if you can’t see the glaring and obvious parallels to the misadventure that Clinton launched in Kosovo, then you are not only a fool, but a willing fool.

Phinn, fuck you you worthless piece of shit. You reach back into the past to try to call the kettle [black]

The Kosovo bombings (you know, the ones based on false and misleading intelligence against a country that posed no security threat to the US, remember?) were, like, 7 years ago! What are you, 12?

… and only make it crystal clear you’re such an inhuman waste of skin you don’t give a flying fuck about any loss of life except to make your goddamned point.

Oh, right. That famous liberal empathy. I’m supposed to wring my hands a few times before I apologize for Clinton’s high-altitude bombings, shake my head and pretend that Bush is somehow any different.

you and yours slavishly support a a regime currently engaged in wanton bloodshed, about which you say and do nothing or worse yet actively support, yet some unknown psychotic moron is enough to get you fat useless asses to rise up.

You don’t know the first thing about me. As it turns out, I am perfectly capable of thinking that BOTH you AND the Iraq War-supporters are wrong, with not more than a hair’s breadth of difference between you. The world is not the binary, simplistic, us-versus-them place that you think it is.

[…] Jeff Goldstein of Protein Wisdom fame has faced an ongoing attack from the “rational” left. Not only has his 2 year old daughter been threatened, but his site has faced Denial of Service attacks. The modus operandi of the modern Left is to visciously attack your opponent, and when that doesn’t work, try to silence them completely. Just look at the “netroots’” attack on Senator Lieberman. […]

I’m new to this sight and I know it’s probably none of my bees’ wax but I was just wondering about the horrific pictures you posted…

Did Deb kill those kids?

No fred, you idiot. She only TALKED about killing them. I mean, who cares about some woman talking about a two year old getting “jon beneted”, as long as the child is a RETHUGLIKKKAN!

And fred, since you’re new here, let me let you in on a little secret gavin and the gang showed me when I first came.

If you want to maintain the “progressive” way, you must always deny that we use personal attacks to stifle debate. They must NEVER know that we argue using our emotions in an attempt to hide behind the fact that, despite all of our academic experience, we are so inept in operating within the confines of reality that we would rather drag the entire modicum of debate down to the gutter. (besides, they’re all trailor park dwelling, beer swilling, sister fucking, gun loving rednecks anyway. I know because my liberal undergrad socialogy prof told me so.

2. If ever you are presented with undenyable proof that, not only do we “progressives” (man, I just love the irony in using that word to describe us, don’t you?) engage in the same disgusting attacks we always accuse the right of, (and scream for apologies for), just post a bunch of comments by right bloggers that are of the same tenor.

(and no, before you ask, it doesn’t matter if we are being hypocritical by screaming for apoligies and condemnation from the right for the same kind of comments, yet offering none when the situation is reversed; they are RETHUGLIKKKANS(tm) for chrissakes, they aren’t worthy of being treated with petty things like common decency and respect. Only we elitest “progressives” deserve that).

Hope that helps,

Veritas

P.S. CHIMPYMCFLIGHTSUITALIBANAZIDIOT!!!

…man, always wanted to say that!

You trolls have had a long day today. Y’all ought to get some sleep so you’ll be fresh tomorrow.

Sleep? We don’t need no stinkin’ sleep! Our anger keeps us awake. Grrrr!

Regarding your mountain of “evidence” (circa 1999) of a Kosovo hoax, Phinn: I’ll be sure to gather it all up and give it to one of my wife’s coworkers, an ethnic Albanian who fled to the States and has a few things to say about Serbian apartheid-like policies and the widespread accounts of ethnic cleansing in his former homeland.

I’m sure he’ll be greatly relieved.

okay, time to close your italics.

[/i]

working yet?

c’mon help me out here.

Looks fine from here.

Wow. Just…wow.

Arrived here through a blizzard of links, unintentionally. Which is my little pre-emptive nuh-uh against the charge of being a rightie wingnut troll. Right-wing, sure. Troll? Negative.

First let me address the major bullet points, straw men, non sequiturs, bait-and-switches, call them what you will (and you will), used in many
comments here. This will help us change the tone. That is the plan.
Hey, I like “fuck you” as much as the next guy but, alas, it tends to wear. I generally limit its use to 1) road rage incidents and 2) those occassions where it is preceded by the phrase “I would really like to…” and followed by “Seriously, all I had to do was ask?”

Your mileage may vary, but if we can get an ‘amen’ on these, perhaps we can communicate with resorting to puppitry and mime. Of course,
you can issue the “fuck you” fatwa at any time and refuse to read on. But you are not a cretin, SO OFF WE GO !

– “Some left wingers” is not equal to “all left wingers”. Same for the right.
One feather does not a wing make. Coulter is not *the* right wing. Ditto for Kos on *the* left. Same for Goldstein. Ditto for Air America. And Deb Frisch is…well, sadly…Frisch.

– All left wingers are not expected to know of, care about, or feel compelled to comment on every post, on every blog. Ditto right wing.

– Both wings harbor a number of folks of good will, a small number of whom possess wit and/or writing skills. A smaller number display minimal
motor skills. The remainder are assholes, trolls, pricks, cunts, dipshits, provocateurs, cretins and fools. Everyone thinks they belong to the good-will group. Everyone is wrong.

– “They started it” is not an argument. Pre-schoolers use it when Mom catches them doing shit.

– “They do it too” is not an argument. Everyone caught doing shit uses it, especially if someone they know got away with doing the same shit. Cretins use this one. A lot.

– “They do it more” is not an argument. Not even close. It’s shit. Using this shit insults the intelligence of nyone unfortunate enough to have heard this shit. Cretins are also big fans of this one. Go figure.

– “Yeah, but this equals that, and you did that, so…” is not an argument. OK, it is an argument. Fine, you got me. It can be powerful if properly used. Even logical. Perhaps even true. The trick lies in determining whether the simile holds up. No one can agree whether it holds up.
No one ever will. No one wants to. That’s why its a trick. Also why it’s shit. Lots of people use this one, and they use it a lot. They always will. Some of them are also cretins. Old news.

Done.

Now you can research Deb Frisch, if you are interested. You will find she has advised Homeland Security on decision-making, and given classes at the FBI. On terrorism. With a security clearance. If you feel these two informational items, coupled with sexual molestation and/or death threats to a two-year-old boy, extending over three weeks, plus an affinity for suicide bombers, plus a rather troubling fixation on blowing/shooting stuff up, should NOT concern Jeff Goldstein, then I will say no more.

Many here oppose her actions, albeit with varying degrees of contempt, and have said so in your comments. And I thank you for that. Not all leftwing commenters share that view. Some — by that I mean a hell of a lot more than two — do NOT consider her vile. To the contrary.

Anyway, thanks for playing.

Reading these replies with all of the hatred coming from both sides, right and left, makes me sad. 🙁

Imagine if there really WERE a left-wing equivalent to Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin.

There is…his name’s Ted Rall.

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