Not To Be A TOTAL Downer, But …
Posted on September 30th, 2008 by D. Aristophanes
The first of the month is roughly 24 hours away. How many employers won’t make payroll? This shit is getting serious, folks. I’m screwed if I don’t get paid. How about you?
(Inhales deep, cleansing breath…)
There once was a country whose banks had huge bad debts. These bankers did not want to admit their “assets” — originating mostly in bad real estate deals — were worthless. So this insolvency crisis created a liquidity crisis — the country’s financial market was fundamentally illiquid for many, many years.
The country was called (wrongly, by foreigners) Japan. The years were the 90’s and beyond.
P.S. I have banked with WaMu for many, many years before they were called by that nickname. I did not remove my deposits this month. Please remain calm.
Paychecks are SO last week.
.
I’m going to re-read ‘The Road’. If I remember correctly there are lots of handy tips (for obtaining food, warmth, etc) in that book that I can use in this new evolved economy.
This time I’ll read it more like a ‘Hobo Lifestyle’ manual. WIN!
Didn’t you hear? Bush ignored Congress and released $630 billion. Of course, not all of that will go to the CEOs who made billions from bad decisions 10 seconds ago. Some it may “trickle down” your way.
I make my living (such as it is) on Teh Intranets. If people don’t get paid, I probably don’t get paid, so I’m going to feel it from somewhere.
Actually, ever since Bush got on TV and said that OMG wereallgonnadiiiiie!1! if the bailout doesn’t happen, my sales have gone to crap. It will probably get worse.
On the positive side, my 6 year-old had her School Savings account with WaMu. Last month, we told her that she was going to get a lesson most people have never had, and we went into the bank and liquidated her account, all $400 of it. We explained to her that WaMu was about to fail and that, sometimes, you have to protect yourself. Her money is safe with us, and lesson learned for her. (She high-fived me when she heard the news report that WaMu went down.)
Watch it like a movie — this is living history.
I sell dildoes and wetsuits on eBay. I don’t expect a downturn at all.
I lost my job 3 weeks ago. So I don’t need to worry about getting paid!
“I sell dildoes and wetsuits on eBay. I don’t expect a downturn at all.”
Two of each, please.
I suppose I’m fortunate to work for a public university, whose budget was already allocated for this year. But even still, my union is working without a contract (it expired last July) and the present economic atmosphere doesn’t exactly help us in contract negotiations.
But thank the gods I’m in a union at all.
My wife, on the other hand, is a bookkeeper for a small business, and the issue for them is lines of credit, even in it’s most basic form as 30-days-net payments. If suppliers start demanding cash COD, it could be a problem for a lot of retailers, big or small.
I’ve been holding back on spending for quite a while – I can make rent for a few months without any additional $$$ if I have to … but my employer is international so it shouldn’t be a problem. I bloody hope.
Now I think everyone will get to see the REAL Bush Legacy, before he even leaves … wallets tightening in anticipation of nasty times, leading to less of everything costing more & ever-fewer new jobs as there’s no cause to hire new faces in companies without the cash or the customers to pay for them.
I really feel for the cubicle-monkeys at all these buggered-up banks & brokerages – as popular as mange, yet they had no real role in all this … & likely no damn job-security to speak of (a LOT of them are temps or work on commission).
I believe in, um, free market and restrictions, no restrictions, on what employers — our economy depends on employers being able to make the right decisions about, cata wampus, blee blee ba, regulations on compensating the less productive members of the economy, which, health care, and get the government out of the business of business. When we get to Washington, we will make sure businesses have the flexibility, so important in these tough times, economic times, you know? Not to have to pay their employees on time every, every time, every ta-ta-ta time, every week or two weeks or what have you. That frees up capital, business capital, to grow businesses and create more businesses and jobs, and business for business businesses.
Banks have NO excuse to not continue making loans.
They just need to stop loaning money to thieves and liars.
No loans to mortgage brokers or Republicans and America’s problems disappear.
Unemployed since August 5th!
Self-employed husband installs solar panels and solar water heaters. We figure if we can make it to the start of the Obama administration, we’ll come through all right
You may take solace in the fact that HTML’s and David Sirota’s Socialist Revolution is at hand, man.
Oh, and don’t forget – pamphlets start handy fires.
my money seems to reside in some sort of netherspace. it is held by entities like “wachovia” (was there ever such a beast? or was a mere airy, a figment of our collective imaginations?). i note a strange name: merrill lynch. it rings a bell, but again, perhaps it was all a passing fancy, a trifle, another piece of financial ephemera.
frankly, all of this shit isn’t normative anyway. it’s all bytes and bits that represent cash, itself representative of a certain pile of silver or gold, themselves substances that have no intrinsic value, only an extrinsic one. i mean, you try eating gold. or making it into a house. so the whole thing is all magic, and the alchemists just had a big beaker full of cadmium blow up in their fucking faces.
Things are lookin’ up for me! My new job is selling individual sheets of carbon paper as souvenirs from banks that went belly-up. It’s the ‘pet rock’ of 2008!
Do people still buy kidneys or is it all donations now?
I work for a government contractor, so I’m safe.
Right?
working for state of CA we were all excited when they told us a couple of weeks ago a budget deal was reached and we weren’t going to get paid minimum wage
but I think the deal involves selling more loans into shitpile — and I don’t know how many buyers are out there — but at least they’ll pay us tomorrow, I think
if not Arnold said we could all stay at his place until it blows over
I create witless, tacky, faintly misogynistic T-shirts and advertise them on Sadly, No!. New one out today!
What I really want to know is, what does Amy Alkon think?
You Demon-crats and your fancy-dan Wall Street jobs are goin’ down!! Me? None of it bothers me, I live in my basement (well, technically, my Mom’s basement), but I have a thriving pemmican making business. I also sell the pelts of pelicans that I garner with my M1A1 Battle Rifle™, because I’m not a lazy beatnik like you LIE-brals. This bail-out plan will never work unless it eliminates taxes altogether (including the capital gains tax) along with the death tax. We have to learn to run our government without any revenues, then everything will be alright. You hippie communists need to learn that every abortion is a gay abortion and that when you get into a boat, it’s row versus wade.
Un/under/self-employed for over a year. At the end of my rope, seriously. Good fucking luck to me finding a gig this week.
jeez, D.A., don’t you have one of them golden parachutes?
My last real job was with the gubblement.
Imagine my surprise when I decided to leave, and discovered that in my earlier contract negotiations I had specified a golden shower by mistake.
I live in Cannuckistan, and when you guys catch a cold, we get the flu, so I’m not making any longterm plans.
Upshot: I’m marginally employed and still a parttime university student, so I wasn’t really making plans to begin with -ah-hah-!
My plan for a “prolonged market adjustment phase” (read: catasrophe) is to go Mad Max on it all.
And now, a relevant webcomic that I figure many Sadlynaughts already read, or at least should:
The Pain: What’s your plan when the shit hits the fan?
also
The Pain: The future according to…
I work in state government, and it’s beyond ugly budgetwise. I can barely get copy paper and toner right now, the bathrooms rarely have paper towels, maintenance has gone from a joke to a farce, basic supplies are not available, but I am lucky to have a job. A job with morale issues, coworker suicides, depressing surroundings, capricious expectations, and whiny customers. But the checks go to my bank account every two weeks, I have health insurance, and the inmates rarely attack non-correctional staff. So far.
Feast to famine in five years. It really is incredible what tax breaks, not saving money, shitty investments, and relying on growth has gotten us.
Thirty years as a self employed high end finish carpenter and manufacturer
of millwork. For those not familiar with that kind of work, I build rooms that look like the courtrooms on Law & Order.
Not right now. Actually, not for the last year.
No worries though, we can always dig ditches, paint houses and stand in front of the Home Depot looking for a leaf raking job.
JS
[…] financial crisis is some serious shit. D. Aristophanes at Sadly, No: Not To Be A TOTAL Downer, But […]
Indeed it is. You know you’re going somewhere…you don’t know where yet, but you know you’re not going to like it when you get there.
My job’s secure for now, but of course it all depends on how bad things get. I’m growing old and feeble, so if I ever do get tossed out of work I’m utterly screwed. We shall see what we shall see.
I know this is all GiTS, but with a Lidar, Radar, GPS style solution you could actually pull off helicopter snipers. GPS to compensate for the drift of having an air based platform, Lidar to compensate for wave mechanics and Radar to do density probes to find weak spots. Granted, this means you’d have to have quad dual core xeons running the math, but fuck, the vector physics could work with that much info.
The fact is anti-redlining laws needs to be abolished.
And squirrel is delish-
http://www.backwoodsbound.com/zsquir.html
My pay has been irregular, though usually eventually caught-up with, for the last year. Our growth curve has flattened or dropped. But our borrowing is practically zero anyway, so to that extent we’re lucky to be so small and impoverished. I’ve sort of been expecting that at any time, things might suddenly turn out great or we might all be laid off, whatever, so while I’m not building a bomb shelter in the back yard, I’ve got enough saved up to survive for a while at least.
Nothing to worry about here. We can always move in with my parents after they take away our house.
Aren’t you glad that Eeevil Bailout of the International Banksters was stopped at the last minute?
Yes.
Apparently the bill had provisions for zero bank reserves.
Glad it’s dead. We got a shot at a good one, now.
I’m sorry, WereBear… what does that mean?
Would anyone not be screwed if that happens? Let’s hear from those bastards so we know where to crash.
Given the amount and extent of criminal activity in our Administration and our financial sector this HAD TO happen. Especially after the big guys started feeding on one another because naked shorting and manipulating the stock of smaller companies no longer provided enough cash.
Yes, it sucks that it is happening to us (whatever “it'” is, we don’t know yet do we?) but the alternative is to somehow package it all up and give it to the next generation or four. I don’t have kids but I have nieces and nephews and I don’t like that idea.
Actually, I don’t know if shoving it off is an option any more. This isn’t a domestic matter, this has fucked up the economies of a lot of countries and they are pissed. Maybe the best we can hope for is that places like Sweden, Denmark and Brazil invade. Le rrrrow!
Effective tomorrow, the banks would have been allowed to keep ZERO cash on hand. They would have no liquid float, and would just trip FDIC insurance if you, oh, wanted to get your money out.
Banks are supposed to have money available, that’s the point. But this way they could speculate with every dollar they have, and if it doesn’t work out… hey, remember how nice the landlord was, that time you bounced a check?
Only, nationally.
Recipe for bank runs.
What the fuck?!
I am starting to really enjoy David Brooks. Yes, that David Brooks:
The rest of it is a bunch of nonsense, ‘a pox on both your houses, why isn’t America governed by magical heroes like I think it used to, and please don’t put in awful heavy handed gubmit reggerlations ’cause they is bad.’
I work at a commodities brokerage. We can’t even do that.
Yeah, just read about it on the Great Orange Satan.
Which is why many of the more progressive dems were against the bill. My own, Kirsten Gillibrand, among them.
Bad as things are, the Bush Administration is determined to make them worse.
All this said, the failure of the bailout was a good thing.
Why? It gives us a chance to catch our breath and realize that Paulson’s solution wasn’t the only option.
Voters are mad. The Congress did what it was supposed to and listened. Good.
Remember “the smoking gun will be a mushroom cloud” if we don’t do something right now?
The markets will not disappear in one day. Or a week. Or even a month.
There are other models out there. For example, Sweden had a very similar banking crisis a few years ago, and it was worse for them because the banks were a bigger chunk of their smaller economy. They are all right. (Essentially they just nationalized the banks and told the execs, well, no big pay packet for you, sorry).
Or we could just send checks to everyone in foreclosure. The “toxic” securities would then regain much of their original value. Then you start re-regulating and beef up the capital requirements of all financial institutions. It ain’t hard — they do this in every other first-world nation. (Look up Basel II).
The situation is bad. But we don’t need solutions from the Paulsons of the world. We can do better. Call your congresscritter and tell ’em.
The short-term blows will fall on John McCain, the long-term stress on the existence of the G.O.P. as we know it.
The GOP is a malignant tumor. I speak for all errets when I say good riddance to bad rubbish.
My sister-in-law was told just yesterday that “it would be a while” before she gets her check. Damn you, Pelosi!!!!
I would have been rich this morning if Nancy Pelosi hadn’t spoken disrespectfully about President Bush’s policies. Damn you, Nancy Pelosi!
Brilliant, no? For added shits and giggles, I believe we are now 12 major bank failures away from $0 in the FDIC insurance fund. Would you like nation-wide riots with your bank runs?
I guess we were supposed to charge everything to our credit cards and then laugh joyfully when the interest rates shot up overnight. Man, shit like this makes it hard to argue with the S.O. when he claims there’s a conspiracy afoot to take us off cash completely and leave everything to zeros and ones floating in the ether, which could be manipulated at will by THEM. Or something. Anyway, next time I’ll just let him talk.
I’m not screwed. My mutual fund is only down 49%, which means I can still afford some canned beans, a twinkie, and some Kroger-band orange soda. Viva la devolution!
Should I now be happy that only a couple members of my entire family are well off enough to have investments and stocks? Yay!
Overnight, Asian markets are mostly, but not entirely, down – and certainly nowhere near as much as yesterday. European markets are all on the upswing. DOW Futures index is at +207 (up from +181 an hour ago). And the USD is still up.
The zero reserves thing: The FDIC covers depositors in a “failed bank” situation for the amount that the bank itself can’t cover out of its own reserves. Zero reserves means that the FDIC is on the hook for the whole thing. The FDIC is already in need of a serious cash infusion which, ultimately, in this instance will need to come from taxpayers.
This just keeps getting better and better, don’t it?
By the way, so far the stock market (as measured by the Dow at least) dropped about 7% yesterday; in 1987, it dropped 22%. Yes, the numbers are larger today, and we’re in a different context, but so far we’ve gone through bigger shifts in the stock market itself. So far. We’ll see today.
The Spouse is self-employed as a financial advisor for a subsidiary of AIG. After we sweated through the nightmare possibility of his decades-in-the-making retirement account disappearing overnight, and started breathing a LITTLE more easily, this bailout failed. Few people seem to understand the intricacies of what’s involved here. I sure as hell don’t, not much. But what I do understand is that in addition to his not-exactly-Wall St.-income level dropping, and frantic clients calling him all day at the office and half the night at home last night because the stock market predictably fell nearly 800 points in the aftermath of the Rethugs’ little temper tantrum over Pelosi talking mean about them, what D.A. and others are now noting is his worst fear: Extra-tight credit for everyone (this will be more obvious down the road for us little people); businesses that depend on lines of credit not meeting payrolls (he’s got one client who will be unable to do so TOMORROW), farmers who depend on banks’ lines of credit to pay up front for their equipment and other needs and then pay back when the crops come in; retirees on fixed incomes who are dependent upon the earnings from their investments wondering if they should move in with their adult children, and so forth. This is why something must be done. It can, and will, only get worse until teh Big Brains in Congress work something out. That’s just the way it is.
Part of this is spanking Chimpy for being such a shithead for eight years and for crying wolf too many times. Part of it is jockeying for winning the presidency vs. CongressCritters scurrying around trying to figure out what would be best NOT for the country but for their own craven political asses. Morning in America, Fall 2008.
What are you saying!? This is a GREAT business climate – for bankruptcy attorneys and funeral directors!!
Good times!
no, you’ve gotta listen to the sages of the blogosphere who say we’ve gotta LET IT FAIL. your ability to buy food and rent is minuscule, compared to the need to make sure we remain ideologically pure.
THIS IS CENTRAL TO OUR POINT!
It took 8 years for Bush to screw the good old USA. It may take a few years for full recovery.
This too shall pass as long as there are some smart people working on it and short-term memory loss doesn’t kick in, as it usually does after a market LOL correction.
I’m not even checking to see how much I’ve lost because there’s not much I can do about it (long time investor here). We are slightly better off in Canada – for now. However, when our biggest customer goes broke it obviously ain’t a good thing.
Here’s a good question we need to be asking people over the next days: “After 7-odd years of George W. Bush Jr., did anyone really ever think that a bill wouldn’t one day come due for that?”
I’ve stopped checking my 401k. I get paid on the last day of the month, which is today. I guess I get to live for at least one more month. WIN!
There will be no going out this month, however.
MzNicky —
You make a great point about farm loans. It’s harvest time so, hypothetically, those “paybacks” should start coming in soon. However, if the market price for the produce falls or production isn’t sufficient (recall the spring floods in Illinois and Iowa), farmers may not be able to make their notes. Also, most ag loans “rollover” – the farmer pays off the note (+ vig) and borrows it right back for the next crop. This is due to start happening soon. If those rollovers get short-circuited or delayed because of tight credit, many farmers will simply be out of business. Things won’t get planted on time if at all.
This would hit small, independent farmers worst, perhaps. In the past, they’d be forced to sellout to Big Ag. But Big Ag may not be able to get the credit it needs to buy up those places. Overall production falls and food prices go up.
Let’s see. It’s after 9:00am. Not really too early for a third glass of bourbon, I guess.
no, you’ve gotta listen to the sages of the blogosphere who say we’ve gotta LET IT FAIL. your ability to buy food and rent is minuscule, compared to the need to make sure we remain ideologically pure.
Yes, because the “sages of the blogosphere” aren’t people like us who want to let the Free Market work its invisible magic like we were told all along it would, but are instead brains in jars who don’t have to worry about food and rent. Right?
Fuck ’em. Let the CEOs burn.
I’m kind of glad the bill came due while he was still “president.”
We’re way past fail, total fail and epic fail. We’re all just arguing over where the deckchairs should go except the chairs have already slid into the drink. “Let it fail”? I wish we had that much control over Bush’s Final* Clusterfuck.
*God I hope. He’s down to martial law and nuclear war.
the whole thing is all magic, and the alchemists just had a big beaker full of cadmium blow up in their fucking faces.
And boy, were their faces red!
I’m going to re-read ‘The Road’.
If I remember right, there’s some handy tips in there about the proper way to skin and butcher a human for food.
Plus some stuff about scavenging. And a little boy.
I get paid on the fifth. Lucky me. Four more days to wait to get screwed sideways.
I practice criminal defense law as well as writing books. I’m expecting the former to be a growth industry.
I again am no expert, but my understanding is that with 401Ks and other investments that are meant to be there for the relative long term, just sit tight and try not to obsess over the, uh, “fluctuations” that are occurring right now. They HAVE to come up with something.
Congress has been hearing from enraged citizens for days. Now that they’ve voted this thing down they’re going to be hearing from enraged businesses and banks that can’t function.
JM said,
September 30, 2008 at 13:49
My sister-in-law was told just yesterday that “it would be a while” before she gets her check. Damn you, Pelosi!!!!
Have her explain to her employers that not paying your employees on time (actually, at the end of every shift) is against the most Holy Bible and makes the wee, so tiny he can’t even speak baby Jesus cry.
Deuteronomy 24:15 New International Version15 Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin.and for future reference...
Leviticus 25:3939 " 'If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave.Heh. LA Times gets an e-mail, decides it must print something:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/biden-palin-oba.html
I get paid on the 30th. Just checked my account at WachoviaCitigroupGlobogymStarfleetMassiveDynamicsMegacorp. and yep, sure enough, it’s in there. I’ll toast to good fortunes for you tonight, DA.
I wonder what the glibitarian line is?
Pheww. Got paid. Bon chance to everyone else out there waiting on payroll.
All that theater yesterday – none of it mattered. Bush did an end run by having the Fed release $630 billion.
And thanks to way too many people listening in on a conference call (including Nouriel Roubini), we got to find out that if the bailout actually passed, Bush and Paulson would still have done whatever the fuck they wanted with that randomly huge amount they pulled out of their asses, with no accountability. No guarantee that credit would relax. Nothing except the party still going, this time on our dime.
Dow’s up 2%!
I predict these good times will last forEVER.
I’m already looking for houses to flip, RB!
Oh, fuckety-fuck-fuck-FUCK!
Here I was all set to go buy a couple suitcase nukes and – WHAM! – the financing dries up!
Damn you, America!!
I got this far:
There are a lot of commentators on the bailout with very little grasp of finance who are confidently opining on the bailout based on one of two broad principals:
Project much, megan
McArdle also blames Pelosi for the bill’s failure.
Good luck especially to Glibertarians and Goopers attempting blame mean ol’ Nancy Pelosi and a mean ol’ speech for why they didn’t vote for the bailout.
I mean, really. Do you think that’ll actually work? Outside of Wingnuttistan?
With the Dow up handsomely this morning, I am throwing my previously-stated caution to the wind. I believe I will go out and buy 3 flat screen TVs today – on credit.
USA! USA! USA!
I blame McCain’s inaction and the fact that he phoned it in.
Folks, who else has read this?
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/mussolini-style-corporatism-in-action.html
Can anyone verify it? The gist is that Sec. Paulson was on a closed conference call last night with 800 bankers, assuring them that the provisions the Dems had made were all meaningless or easily circumvented. If true, it makes it clear we are not dealing with a rescue plan; ithis is a criminal act in progress. The Dems need to drop this toxic proposal and come up with their own plan. And begin impeachment proceedings against Sec. Paulson.
DA,
I’m in no danger.
But I have been in the past. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
daddyj—
Dude, read your own link. There’s a freakin’ torrent of the conference call out there available for anyone to listen to.
Well, coincidentally we just sold one of our cars for a nice little wad of cash. Not a lot, but certainly enough for groceries.
I was going to deposit it, but I think I might tuck it away for when the ATMS suddenly freeze up.
I’ve taken out my investments in cash and am going into the loan sharking biz. Does anyone here need a job? You’d need to be handy with a baseball bat.
The Paulson conference call, FYI:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/mussolini-style-corporatism-in-action.html
Compare and contrast with the way the House didn’t allow debate or discussion on the 100+ pages bill that was drafted one day before they voted on it.
I was going to deposit it, but I think I might tuck it away for when the ATMS suddenly freeze up.
Man! Wish I’d thought of that! All the ATMs in Kabul are down (again!), so now I gotta drive all the way to Khandahar and back just be able to take the big guy out for an “apology lunch.”
Hey, sagra! I used to “knuckle” bad checks back in the 70s. My motto was always, “Never use a 9-iron when a pitching wedge will get you there.”
Stocks are up 200+ off stronger consumer confidence numbers…most likely owed to massive buying runs on canned goods, shotguns, Parliament 100s, and porn.
Man, you people who worry about getting your paycheck make me feel bad about the extra taxfree 65€ my company is paying me everyday (including weekends) in addition to my salary for pressing buttons on computers.
Oh well, atleast I have a mortgage to pay,so I can calm my concience by claiming all my money will go to pay for my apartment, and is not spent for my amusement.
Damn you guys. Hope you get your money and some stability so I won’t have to feel bad about my income.
Thankfully I am a teacher. And living here in California, where they just passed the state budget (only 80+ days late), I am guaranteed money for the foreseeable future.
You shouldn’t feel bad about your income, LD. You didn’t contribute to this clusterfuck by paying your bills.
THE RANTOUL ILLINOS PRESS ONCE AGAIN SHOWS IT IS THE ONLY BRAVERY IN THE FACE OF THE MENNECE OF TEH FUCHING FERRETS. THEY ARE BRAKEING A STORY ABOUT HOW JOHN MCCANE WAS GOING TO STEEL THE BAILOUT MONEY AND ATTEMPT TO BRIBE TEH FUCHING FERRETS INTO NOT GANAWING HIS FACE OFF AND FOR THARE ASSISTANCE IN SEIZING THE IRANIAN EYELINER DEPOSITS. HU JINTAO AND ED MACMANN WERE SCHEDULED TO PRESENT A GIANT CHECK FOR 700 BILLION DOLLARS TO GEORGE BUSCH FOR THE BALEOUT. JOHN MCCANE WAS GOING TO APPEAR TO CLAIM CREDIT FOR FILLING OUT THE PUBLISHERS CLEARING HOSE SWEEPSTEAKS FORM THAT MADE THE BALEOUT HAPPEN. WHEN THE EVENT WAS OVER JOHN MCCANE WAS GOING TO TAKE THE CHECK AND SAY HE WAS GOING TO PUT IT IN HIS OFFICE FOR SAFE KEEPING. HE WOULD THEN DUCK OUT THE BACK DOOR AND INTO THE BED OF JOE LEIBERMENS EL CAMINO AND COVER HIMSELF WITH A SURPLUS FEMA TARP AND BE DRIVEN TO A SECRET MEATING WITH TEH FUCHING FERRETS. THE REAL SURPRISE WAS THE DOUBLE CROSS. TOD PALING WOULD HAVE KNOCKED LEIBERMEN AND MCCANE UNCONSCIES WITH AN EMPTY BOTTLE OF OLE GRAND DAD AND DRIVEN HIM TO THE CHEEPEST MOTEL IN RANTOUL ILLINOS WHERE TEH FUCHING FERRETS WERE WAITING. ON THE WAY HE WAS GOING TO PULL OFF THE INTERSTATE IN PESOTUM ILLINOS WHERE SARA PALING WOULD BE WAITING TO TAKE THE BALEOUT CHECK. SHE WOULD USE THE CHECK TO PAY OFF THE NOTE THE CHINEASE HAVE ON ALASKA AND DELCEAR INDEPENDANCE AND CROWN HERSELF QUEEN OF ALASKA. SHE WOULD THEN DON HER POLER BEAR PELT AND LEAD AN INVASION OF THE UNITED STATES BY RUNNING SCREEMING ACROSS THE BOARDER WITH THE SEVERED HEAD OF VLADIMER PUTIN IN ONE HAND AND A MOOSE FEMUR SPEAR IN THE OTHER. HER ARMY OF ZOMBY MOOSE WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED HER AND SET UP AN ARMAGEDDAN LIKE BATTLE WITH THE HORDES OF TEH FUCHING FERRETS ON THE PLAINS OF NORTH DAKOTA. SINCE TEH FUCHING FERRETS WOULD BE ENRAGED AT BEING STIFFED OUT OF 700 BILLION DOLLARS ZOMBY MOOSE WOULD BE NO MATCH EVEN LEAD BY A SHRIEKING QUEEN OF ALASKA.
You are a fuching genius, Lonny. Just not in the way you think.
One guy who won’t be fired is Jonah Goldberg. He’s reaching for the pitchfork himself today in the LA Times (no link ’cause of spam filter), even though he “loathe[s] populism” – in order to attack those who opposed this bailout. Memo to Jonah: pitchforks only work if you are a mob.
My company instituted a wage freeze at the beginning of the year and cut all contributions to employees’ 401(k)s. I promptly ratcheted up my 401(k) contribution to cover the cut, so it’s continuing to lose money at the same rate. Glad to do my part.
This is what happens in a Depression. You can’t just bail yourselves out of it (unless you are a Wall Street CEO). Americans are about to pay the piper. Face it, the country has been acting like a bunch of assholes for quite some time, now. We have been living off Third World slave labor, attacking countries, spending money frivolously like drunken sailors and trying to justify it all by citing “Democracy” and “Jesus.” Now it is really going to get ugly. Who will be the next American Idol? Maybe for once, no one will actually care.
Okay Maine, that’s good enough for me. Now who needs a loan? Special on the vig this week, only 10 points!
Brady’s bum knee: It’s our national karma. This unconsidered, bloated Ponzi scheme we call our economy had to crash at some point. It’s not as though gargantuan faux-wealth of this sort appears out of thin air due to sheer awesome USA-edness. As you note, this paper largesse has been built over a long period of time on the backs of others, who have been exploited and/or ignored as a means to our own selfish ends. Karma=action and actions have consequences. No way around it.
I’m so bummed I mixed metaphors and misplaced modifiers and I don’t even care!
On the other hand, I adopted a new puppy-dog last week. I think I’ll go scratch her belly.
I make things nobody needs for people who give them away.
I’m sure this gravy train will roll on forever…
mikey
I’m sure this gravy train will roll on forever…
My experience with gravy trains has been unsuccessful as they dribble through the railroad ties before I even find a porter to take my ticket.
Or fewer, depending upon the size of the bank… Isn’t that why the Feds forced JPMorganChase to buy WaMu? So FDIC wouldn’t have to make good on their deposits (which would have accounted for something like 1/3 of the currently available insurance fund)?
One guy who won’t be fired is Jonah Goldberg. He’s reaching for the pitchfork himself
Does Jonah even know what a pitchfork is? Well, maybe he does. He’s certainly a shoveler of dung.
Time to brush up on my foraging skills. Alas, it’s a bad time of year for it. Saw a couple of coons this morning; I’ve probably et worse.
Also, thank god for all this sage advice
Simba b said…
> Dude, read your own link. There’s a freakin’ torrent of the conference call out there available for anyone to listen to.
You’re absolutely right, Simba b. By “can anyone verify it” I misspoke and should have asked “can anyone verify the blog’s *interpretation* of what Paulson was telling the bankers?” I won’t be able to listen to the audio until this evening.
I took a 10% pay cut to survive a downsizing.
The other guy got fired. It’s ugly out here. I’m in sales, I should know.
When my Grampy retired he bought a farm. It was just a hobby farm to spend weekends in on summer vacation, down in the hills ‘n hollers of SE Iowa, not in any way good farm land. He rented out the few acres of tillable land to a neighbor, we kept our horses there, and he graded a road through the hilly woods for us to play around on the tractor and ride our horses.
There was an old farm house with a dirt cellar. The house had electricity and that was it. There was a pump well outside, and a bottled gas stove to cook on. We had an outhouse, spidery and with no “chemical” treatment. There was no furnace, so Gramps bought and installed a cast iron coal burning stove. We didn’t stay there too much in the winter, but when we did, I thought it was such fun, sitting by the stove listening to the wind howl around the eaves. There was no running water, just a hand pump outside the back door, the kind you have to prime, and another hand pump and well in the pasture to fill the horse trough.
As a kid, this all seemed like great fun, and I’ve always felt grateful that I got to experience an earlier way of life that even kids of the previous generation rarely got to know. As time went on, my cousins and I grew up and went away and it all got a little too much for the old folks, driving down to mow the lawn and so forth, and the ponies were sold and then the farm itself was sold. If Gramps had put it on the market in the 70s, he would have made a killing with the inflated land prices of the time, but he waited until the 80s in the midst of the farm crisis. He didn’t lose money, since he bought it outright in the 60s, but it’s fair to say he did not make a killing. Now I wish we’d have somehow held onto the place. It would be somewhere to run to in case of genuine meltdown. Way out in the middle of nowhere on a gravel road, a big garden plot . . . a survivalist’s dream.
Sadly, it had no shit moat, so we’d need to build one. That’s one modern convenience the place would really need in a time of turmoil.
Market was down 777 yesterday which is like the number of God or something so that is a good sign right? Market is up almost 300 today. Woo hoo! Let the good times roll.
Let the good times roll
let them knock you around . . .
Can’t see the word “Grampy” without thinking of this.
Thank you for that, RB. 😉 I’ll have to spend some time (when I have some) looking at the Betty Boops and checking to see what old Bugs they’ve got on the ‘tube. They just don’t make ’em like they used to.
YKGOML!
I wish Suze had given some reasons why she picked “7 years” and I don’t know her success in predictions, but she said on tv that it will take ’til 2015 to comeback from this financial crisis. I’ve also heard ten years. McCain’s presidency could set us back 100 years.
Bush’s $400,000 salary should be withheld and his ranch sold at auction. I have no pity.
The whole CDS and derivative thing has been like an extended game of musical chairs, with the ever-rising housing prices providing the music. Most of the players thought the music would go on forever and didn’t think about the fact that the “chairs” weren’t real chairs, but merely scraps of paper with the word “chair” written on them.
Well, wouldn’t you know, there came a day when the music died. And now these silly kids want us to give them real chairs in exchange for those scraps of paper, claiming that this alone will crank the music back up so that they may go on playing. Oh, and if we don’t do this, the house will burn down. When asked, “Just WHO is going to burn the house down?”, they answer, “I dunno! It just WILL!”
Whole thing seems kinda pathetic.
Ugh, my friend from college is worrying about her dad, ’cause he’s been flying back and forth from DC all week and getting yelled at. (He does something business-y and financial that nets him a sweet paycheck.) I was trying to be sympathetic, but it was hard when all I could think about was that they just got heated bathroom floors during the remodel of their second house. …I mean, I really *do* think their family will be screwed if (when) we go belly-up, but maybe not as much as most people…
In other news, I’m staying in school as long as possible. This “real world” gig you guys have going sounds poorly organized.
If this were a real crisis, I’d be worried.
But it’s not.
It’s a “Naomi Klein” Crisis, existing mainly to extract more power and money from the polis.
I can tell this isn’t a ‘real crisis. How? Regardez, tout suite.”
WereBear said,
September 30, 2008 at 13:12
Now I’m imagining this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Er69b4HMl8
So, I put in a call to my Democratic Congressman who’s already given up his House seat to run for Susan Collins’ Senate seat (and he’s losing badly) to chastise him for voting in favor of the Paulson Bailout Plan. I was immediately corrected. “You mean, the ‘Emergency Economic RESCUE Plan.’!! You know SOMEthing has to be done immediately or we’re all gonna DIE!!”
Not quite a direct quote, but that was the gist.
Sheesh!
Re: Paulson’s Conference Call.
I sure do wonder if mayhap the RICO Act applies here … or criminal conspiracy law … or (depending whether any of his bailout BS = a contract or sworn testimony) either perjury or fraud.
I think that pinhead Rasputin-wannabe would look tres chic in orange.
The US needs to take a very close look at what role Iran may have played in creating this crisis.
I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie? I said thanks, but no thanks! He’s known as The Maverick. Real reform. Old boy networks. In what respect, Charlie?
I’m guessing zero.
If you would like to insure and/or hedge against my guess, feel free to. Additionally, there are an exploding number of opportunities in the guess-insuring-and-hedging field today, and one would be a fool to let these investment opportunities pass him up.
How do guess-insuring and -hedging vehicles make so much more than their canonical market counterparts? It is a mystery! The only sure thing is this: we must reinvest our Social Security and state budgets in these new guess-insuring and -hedging funds.
That Palin robot has, like, zero verite. Far too coherent.
Turkey Volume Guessing Insurance?
mikey
I’m in Canada, and our banks are pretty solid, so I’m not seeing too much of a problem there, save with the TSX traders’ frickin’ herd mentality. (Who knew you had to be professionally rigshi to work the levers of high finance?!) I also work for a company that provides essential services to clients in basic industries, like building materials and grocery. So even if our economy does grind down even further, our clients’ business won’t entirely stop, which means we’ll likely get paid.
Also, I’m a frugal so-and-so, and I saved up ten grand or so over the last couple of years (amazing what having a real job will do), and put four of that in a GIC about a year ago. At the time, everyone was telling me “That’s too conservative! You should get a mutual fund! It pays more,” and I said, “Like hell; I don’t trust the stock market” (because speculation is evil). Now I’m fighting back the urge to call up those people and say, “I told you so.” My expenses are also low, and I’m still income-positive despite the whopping inflation.
I’ve got a spare bedroom in the basement if anyone wants a short-term crash space while they’re looking for an entree into Canadian society…
My bailout plan:
1) Reinstate Glass-Steigal and the walls that used to separate commercial banks (where us plebes put our money and businesses get loans, etc) and brokerages (where we keep our investments) from investment banks (where assholes speculate with other people’s money).
2) Since they affect the real economy and ordinary citizens use whatever money is needed to keep commercial banks and brokerages solvent.
3) Let the investment banks and hedge funds burn.
I’m starting a company that sells leather goods and crossbow equipment. We are introducing razor edged boomerangs soon. We expect our sales to triple as more start to roam the wasteland in search of gasoline.
the_millionaire_lebowski —
You’ve been paying attention in class, haven’t you?
a lesser imp —
3) Let the investment banks and hedge funds burn.
Goody! Can we make smores?
LENNY MARTELLO for PRESIDENT!
P.S. We are joining up with teh fuching weasels, and we’re going to rip McLame’s flesh.
My best friend just got laid off this morning. I am bummed. Probably does not have as much to do the big shit pile as it does the way big corporations are. Needless to say, fuck.
I don’t know who this Lonny Martello is, but I think he just won the internets.
We are all Lonny Martello now.
I’m a freelance photographer. I have about two dozen clients that keep things going. Last month, my third biggest client dropped out. He can’t afford to use me. This month, well, we’ll see.
If lost the top five clients I’d miss a mortgage payment within sixty days.
All the people who constantly complain about how inflation might affect their bank accounts, all the people who cry when the stock market tanks and their stock loses value, all the people who talk about what fun it is to write something off, those are problems I hope for. Much like when I worked for a paycheck, every month is a new challenge.
That said, I don’t give a flying fuck about a bailout. It’s about time someone else worried about their mortgage. I’ve had to worry about mine all my life (a mortgage which, I know, puts me ahead of a lot of people, my brother and sister to name two, who still rent because they can’t afford to buy and we’re all in our forties).
It’s time to share the pain. I’ve had mine long enough.
Woody–about the only way the conservatives can get rid of Social Security and Medicare is to bankrupt the government.
Republicans are like your ex-husband who takes out a huge loan, talks you into co-signing, and then runs off with the waitress down at the ice house, leaving you with the payments.
[…] Filed under: Uncategorized — Tags: Fuching Ferrets — t4toby @ 10:33 am From the comments section over at Sadly, […]
HOLY CRAP. YOU HAVE TO COVER THIS.
Wait a second. Did you just mention Hulkin and Scott Sapp in the same sentence?
Wait a second. Did you just mention Hulkin and Scott Sapp in the same sentence?
that’s so much fuching fail i can’t find my caps lock key.
Any chance that Hulkin will allow someone to post “Creed Suxxors”?
You keep whining like an American during an economic crisis and The Doughy Pantload is gonna slit your stomach and toss in a half starved weasel.
Comment at Malkin’s on Creed:
On September 29th, 2008 at 10:35 pm, Digshot said:
Ugh. We’re torturing our own guys now?
I would have asked to be waterboarded instead.
As you may know, I am in the UK.
In the South West to be exact, where the situation seems pretty dire. Its fairly rural down here, most jobs are manufacturing or retail. I just graduated from University this May, and didn’t get empoyed until September.
At a box factory.
I also got laid off today. Surplus to requirements, apparently. I am teh FAIL at making boxes
Who will be the next American Idol? Maybe for once, no one will actually care.
Wanna bet?
Two banks enter … one bank leaves!
BECK: I can’t look at Barney Frank any more. I can’t take it.
GOLDBERG: I almost think he should be in jail! I almost think the guy should be in jail!
BECK: Oh I do too! I absolutely do. I think — honestly, I think we should have at least, bare minimum, we should have stockades in front of the Capitol building. Some of these people are out and out criminals on what they have done. […]
GOLDBERG: It is an incredibly poisonous situation. You know in the middle ages, Harry Reid would have his stomach cut open and a half-starved weasel thrown in, for the kinds of things he’s doing. It’s outrageous!
STARVING TEH WEASELS IS CRULE AND INMUSTELID TREETMINT.
Recessions are good for crime, so I’ll have plenty to do.
The Goddamn Batman
P.S. Being a rich motherfucker helps, too.
Welcome to our world, Puss-boy.
We depend on broken families, serious injuuries, corporate malfeisance, the growing police state, and bad luck for our income, so we ought to be okay.
Can someone please explain to me why a business would be relying on credit in order to make payroll. This seems to be a highly shitty business plan.
Bingo, Gato.
Well, it’s about growth – see, relying on receipts to fund growth means you only have a little bit left over after covering your costs, so it goes very, very slowly.
(This assumes that you are making an actual profit, btw.)
Slow growth means slow profit growth (there’s that assumption of profit again, sorry).
Well, to be a good businessperson, you have to have BIG profit growth, quickly!
Because growth is always good, unless it’s your doctor telling you that you have one.
Maybe startups? That’d be my guess.
Then again, new businesses go under all the time, in good or bad economic times.
Any blue chip business (i.e. GM, GE, Boeing, etc) that “can’t make payroll due to the credit freeze” is lying, and using the economic panic to justify laying off a few more stateside workers.
Cain said:
It won’t be a proper Depression until Ginsters stops hiring.
Seriously though, both my sons are in Devon and I’m trying to persuade them that jumping here to Amsterdam before they’re pushed is probably a good idea. Not even a gorgeous view, clean air or the world’s best icecream will help when the rent’s due.
What’s preferable – to slowly subside beneath a rising North Sea while in work and fed, or to look smugly out over the Atlantic waves from the cliffs, with dry feet but an empty belly?
Well, Amsterdam has a shit-ton of weed, so I’m voting Red Light District.
I get paid in company script.
Ok kenga, I get the growth part of the equation but…
This seems to be a recipe for FAKE growth. Maybe I need an example of a business in which this model is applicable and successful. Maybe I also need to take a remedial business econ course or something, lol.
Thanks though, just trying to understand some of the bobbleheads out there right now…
Can someone please explain to me why a business would be relying on credit in order to make payroll.
It’s all about the cash flow.
I get paid in company script.
Load sixteen tons and what do you get?
I get paid in hugs and kisses.
Which actually isn’t too bad.
Can someone please explain to me why a business would be relying on credit in order to make payroll.
The same idiotic reason why some people buy their fucking groceries with a credit card, or worse, a pack of cigarettes.
What do you all have against us? We were on top of the world, once. We had it all. They fought over us, killed for us, traded us for sex.
Life stinks.
If this were a real crisis, I’d be worried.
But it’s not.
You sound like a conservative about global warming. Grow up, this is the real shit.
Hey kenga! Check your e-mail (or check the previous thread)! Your help is required, eh?
Oh dear. Malkin + Creed = perfect union of teh suck and teh st00pit.
Must. Not. Click. Link.
Dammit.
Went grocery shopping last night (the 29th). I had little left in my checking account and didn’t want to delve into my savings account. I get paid on the 30th. So I used my credit card.
I have the money now in my checking account, and will pay off my credit card when it’s due.
Now, there were risks involved with that, sure, but not enough to render the decision idiotic.
Wolfe Blitzer & Jonah Goldberg:
BECK: Oh I do too! I absolutely do. I think — honestly, I think we should have at least, bare minimum, we should have stockades in front of the Capitol building. Some of these people are out and out criminals on what they have done. […]
GOLDBERG: It is an incredibly poisonous situation. You know in the middle ages,
Harry Reid would have his stomach cut open and a half-starved weasel thrown in, for the kinds of things he’s doing. It’s outrageous!
We depend on broken families, serious injuuries, corporate malfeisance, the growing police state, and bad luck for our income, so we ought to be okay.
Corporate malfeisance? Forsooth, what queer and ancient phrases spring forth from your quill! Surely, if a corporation does a thing, that thing is not malfeasant, but seemly!
D.N., we buy all things with a CC and then pay it off every month, thus denying the CC company a chance to practice usery upon us but getting them all excited and thinking that maybe THIS month they’ll get some blood from us. So far, we win.
There are no profits, only costs.
we buy all things with a CC
Use their money for free. Why the fuck not, eh?
Air miles credit cards are awesome if you pay them off.
We have already been informed that my company will not make payroll. I have to find a way to pay my rent, car, and insurance in the next couple of days…I ma already screwed!
Really, LJ?
That seems so strange. what kind of buisness is it?
Buisness is Freedom-Speak for business.
And so we see that the “bailout” maybe wasn’t such a bad idea. Maybe.
Now that we’re all finding out that it wasn’t just a Wall St. thing. I’m not saying the house bill was the right thing, but it should be clear to everyone that we gotta do something.
Show of hands: who has changed their mind in the last day or two? Jism, put your hand down, we already know you changed your mind at least six times just today.
Why the fuck not indeed?
RB, that is our exact theory, and we fortunately just used up all our accumulated miles since I see these reward programs going the way of the dinosaur.
For the folks who are hosed if your employer can’t make payroll, I feel for you and I’ve been there; hell we could all be there soon. I recall in ’91 not being able to use my car anymore since I couldn’t afford gas or insurance. And now we’ve got horribly inflated housing/rent costs plus a totally screw-the-needy bankruptcy system set up to really hurt people. The blame goes to both sides of the aisle for the latter especially.
It is history folks, let’s hope for a good old fashioned socialized revolution!
That’s the key – I’m still paying off groceries from grad school(’99). Mind you it was the nookie runs to London that really cost, but those were essential to mental health.
Marita – replied!
PeeJ, something does indeed need to be done and there are some great theories out there. The goal is to make sure that in the process of doing something the bastards don’t use the current chaos to finally fuck us into 3rd world status like they seem to have been trying to for so long. Do something, but do the right thing.
The thing to do is to listen to the people (economists, etc.) who are on record as seeing this thing coming (Dr. Doom comes to mind). It worked so well with Iraq, right? ….oh.
Hey PeeJ – I kinda changed my mind.
I’m still pro-do something, but I’d like a dress-code provision added.
C and V levels have to wear ties that say “I’m with stupid”, with an arrow pointing up from the belt.
Too subtle?
In case somebody didn’t answer this already —
Many small businesses (I mean, really small – like 15 or fewer employees) often get paid “late” by their customers and carry receivables on their books that are fairly substantial for the businesses size. They often depend on a line of credit to make payroll, purchase supplies, parts, etc. If these were to be cut off (though I can’t think of a reason that any sane, relatively solvent local bank would ever do such a batshit st00pid thing), then a lot of small businesses could be hurt.
I have NOT changed my mind.
All the reasons I thought it was madness yesterday still seem like madness today.
Is it necessary? Why?
Will it work? Why? Even if some action is necessary, where is the actual evidence that this is the appropriate action? If your building is on fire, restricting gasoline sales might still be good policy, but not the action needed at the time.
Why do we need to act rashly? Why can’t we take two weeks to get thoughtful, rational input in hearings and put together a plan that actually addresses the real problems?
What are the chances that it will actually make things worse, not better?
Shouldn’t we at least be having a conversation about what we’re going to do if it turns out that this plan, and this amount of money, spent in this way, doesn’t solve anything?
mikey
And so we see that the “bailout” maybe wasn’t such a bad idea. Maybe.
Now that we’re all finding out that it wasn’t just a Wall St. thing. I’m not saying the house bill was the right thing, but it should be clear to everyone that we gotta do something.
Show of hands: who has changed their mind in the last day or two? Jism, put your hand down, we already know you changed your mind at least six times just today.
Okay, let me refine thiat: Say whether you were for a “fix” but not the one that came to not pass, or against doing anything.
PS – Brad Delong finally sez something I sympathize with: “As I said, raze the Republican Party to the ground. Plough it under. Scatter salt in the furrows so it can never grow back.”
Thing is, hasn’t Bush & RoveCo done that already?
Hmm, thought it didn’t opost. Sorry. But I DID add something to it so please read it again.
mikey asked: Is it necessary? Why?
I think it is for the reasons we’re reading about here. The ripple effect of inaction is only starting to appear – small businesses can’t make payroll, accounts receivable not being received and so on. And it will likely snowball.
Your turn.
Show of hands: who has changed their mind in the last day or two?
Being a filthy dirty leftist I’m for the government throwing tons of money – my money even, and yours too, ingrate! – all over the place if it’s relatively efficient and helps people out. I am not knowledgeable enough to know for sure what the deal is but it seems obvious that if people and organizations have their retirement funds tied up in faith-based finance a lot of people are going to lose.
The issue for me was that the suffering bottom level of this stupid Ponzi scheme should be given cash first.
Palau said:
I’m in Dorset here, but couldn’t agree more. I’m personally looking both in London and Bristol for jobs, since I know people there I could concievably bunk with while looking for a more permament place to stay. Even they, so far, have been pretty rough. I checked out their job markets last summer, and…well, lean times are ahead.
Why do we need to act rashly? Why can’t we take two weeks to get thoughtful, rational input in hearings and put together a plan that actually addresses the real problems?
It’s a game of chicken. How many payments can come due before a general collapse happens? Maybe two weeks is reasonable, but I don’t know that and knowledgeable and trustworthy people seem to be saying to do something now.
DN,
And that’s fine and dandy, but part of the problem we’re in as a country is precious few people actually do pay off their balances each month.
And buying groceries with a credit card is a risk even if you do pay it off (suppose you miss the deadline?) but if you don’t, you’re paying for your dinner last night in twelve months.
I haven’t changed my mind, PeeJ.
It was a bad plan with not nearly enough oversight.
Do something? yes.
That fucked up bill? Oh Hells No!
Every time in the last decade or so that we have acted out of fear we have made poor long-term decisions. Let’s not do it again.
There is no hurry on this. tThat is the Bush regime utilizing the Shock Doctrine, as they have to great effect in the past (See Iraq War, Military Comissions Act, Fisa, etc, etc, etc…)
And i don’t know, RB, almost every economist I have heard talking about this bill said that there was no evidence that this would actually work, that it was a crap shoot.
I agree with PeeJ and I agree with mikey and I agree with Bubba. And you know how crazy that makes me.
[/Toby Zeigler]
Seriously, I’m not convinced that you’re really disagreeing with PeeJ, mikey. If I’m reading you right, your central objection is the rushing-into-it-without-a-clue aspect of the bailout that crashed and burned.
I haven’t changed my mind in the past few days — I believed before, and I believe now, that government has a responsibility to provide for the common welfare and when a shitstorm happens, its obligation is to take action following a thoughtful decision-making process. When they reverse the order — action before thinking — that’s when things get really scary. And evil. And corrupt.
The issue for me was that the suffering bottom level of this stupid Ponzi scheme should be given cash first.
Amen to that, brother. A-fukken-men. Hey, there’s an idea! Recall how they killed Giles Corey(?) during the Salem witch hunt? They put him with his back flat on the ground and a pallet on his chest. Then started loading big fucking stones on it. And they kept asking him to confess. His response never varied: “Another stone”
Since the Wall St. thiefs are probably as bound to their greed as he was to his principles, we put them in the same position but use gold instead of stones. They can confess their crimes at any time and walk away with the gold. I’d laugh my but off watching it – “Another ingot….URFURF” [/breathing] Their greed would actually kill them. Perfect.
. . . and apparently I totally, totally agree with t4toby.
I dunno, Peej. A LOT of the people screaming that we need to DO THIS NOW are proven lying liars. My question from the other day still stands.
It’s not like all the money hopped on a steamboat and left for Belize. There IS money.
I work for a little company and we’re in the process of getting some funding. Angel investors came out of the woodwork to talk to us. A SCARY number of folks looking for a decent place to put a few hundred thousand dollars.
Now, is there a viable business model in lending some of it to small business, what Krugman et al refer to as “commercial paper”? It seems to be an article of faith that this is a good, solid ongoing business model.
So to assume that because a certain class of business is unwilling to make those transactions, I have a VERY hard time believing that another class of organization might well be delighted to carry that paper.
At least I’d like to see somebody explain to me why in this one case, the existing players are the ONLY POSSIBLE players…
mikey
And i don’t know, RB, almost every economist I have heard talking about this bill said that there was no evidence that this would actually work, that it was a crap shoot.
It’s another part of the calculus that I am unqualified to comment on, and why I don’t think I’m arguing against what mikey says, but thinking about it.
Damn right, the “economic stimulus package” worked because a bunch of poor people got money and bought stuff with it. Easy as pah.
TRICKLE THIS DOWN, ASSHOLES.
via Krugman
Also, from the same place, since we’re talking about CC debt:
This describes me. I understand that if the US financial system is allowed to melt down, it really will be a disaster for most working people. On the other hand, the EESA was horrible. So I’m glad that the EESA was voted down, and hope that they will come up with a better plan, with better oversight, that doesn’t force the public to pay for financial firms’ poor judgement.
See, I’m worried because Nouriel Roubini said
“If Mack and Blankfein don’t want to end up like Fuld they should do today a Thain”
PeeJ, it’s kind of pointless to say “I’m for doing something”. I, for one, am actually for doing a lot of things. Some of them could even be done simply by throwing money – like 700 billion bucks – at them. I’d propose using the current public sentiment to make some fundamental changes, even if they won’t help with the immediate problem – that’s kind of water under the bridge anyway.
I am still not for buying bad assets from Wall Street at inflated prices, though. Nationalize the fuckers, is what I say. I certainly didn’t change my mind about voting against this bailout. At best it’s going to postpone the day the whole edifice is going to come tumbling down.
Then again, I’ll be honest and say I’m in good shape – with a tenured job at a big public university, and a German passport if the financial apocalypse really does strike in California. I might have a different opinion if it was me worrying about making the rent, who knows.
I have a great idea!
How about we don’t use the same firms and people that got us into this mess to try and get us out.
Hank Paulson? Are you fucking kidding me?
Of course, he also said this yesterday:
Now the prospect of this plan passing…is not sufficient to make the markets rally as there is a generalized loss of confidence in financial markets and in financial institutions that no policy action seem to be able to control.
The next step of this panic could become the mother of all bank runs, i.e. a run on the trillion dollar plus of the cross border short-term interbank liabilities of the US banking and financial system as foreign banks as starting to worry about the safety of their liquid exposures to US financial institutions;
christian, if you’re going to write things like that you have to preface the comments by announcing your superior pedantry skills.
Didactic fuckers come over from fucking Germany and tell ME what’s pointless will they. Few people can beat me at pointlessness, let me tell ya, buster.
Sorry that I forgot the pedantry disclaimer, PeeJ. Apparently, I’m not aware of all internet traditions ;).
C and V levels have to wear ties that say “I’m with stupid”, with an arrow pointing up from the belt.
Precisely how would this differ from existing neck-wear?
Preferred voting stock in exchange for this cash should be the only thing on the table.
If we’re buying this Shitpile we should have a say in what’s to be done with it.
The bottom of most ties forms an arrow pointing towards the asshole. So I guess the answer would be, not at all.
Which side do you wear your tie on, PeeJ?
‘Cause when I wear a tie it points to my junk.
You’re doing it wrong.
I’m a bar owner. Bars are historically good at weathering recessions. I am not at all confident about ongoing plans to open a new place in town next year, which is to say, directly create another half dozen jobs. There’s no way Gingrich, the loonies at CEI, and the rightwing lasseiz-faire-marketers can spin that as anything but a microeconomic FAIL.
I’m confident an Obama administration could keep from running the economy off the road, but can they pull it out of the ditch (or giant flaming toxic sludge pit)?
Okay. I’m with mikey. Although plans based on copious information gathering and conscientious deliberating – implemented a step at a time with frequent re-evaluation – sometimes end up getting one completely fucked anyway, it’s fairly well established that the success rate of such a method is significantly higher than OMFG!!! WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!! QUICK!! HERE!! THROW THIS AT THE PROBLEM!! WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!!!
ahem
Thing is, I’m pretty thoroughly convinced that the air’s gonna come out of the balloon one way or another and that we (meaning us peons) are in for a lengthy period of tough shit no matter what we do. There’s no single dose of Levitra that’s gonna give the economy a lasting hardon again anytime soon.
The bill that failed might well have made things look better for awhile – if by “better” you mean a stable or rising DOW (the same one that, for the past several years, has risen every time another major layoff was announced). Indeed, some guy from the IMF (the folks who has such success with Argentina) said bluntly this morning that he’d hoped the Paulson Plan would pass so the markets could stabilize until after the election.
So, if you believe that we (meaning us bottom 99-percenters) are in for a shit sandwich anyway, it seems to me that it would be better to invest in bread and condiments for us than to try to patch some rich motherfucker’s balloon.
Ian Welsh at FDL is still going at it:
I’m more of a chewable Cialis sort of guy, Mainey.
Ted Rall has a plan:
I agree with ice Weasel’s comment halfway up the page: The hedge funds and traders have been making millions over the last several years (with their mercedes and second homes and great gear), and I too enjoy watching them suffer. 9/11 and Morgan Stanley in Tower Two, remember? Now when I think of Morgan Stanley, I wish they were still in the Tower so those f—–s could jump to their deaths like in the Great Depression.
Also, get a CC that yields gift cards and pay off your bill every month while using the CC for every purchase. A month’s worth of spending almost always yields a fifty dollar Target card, and, before, I would have just paid the same bills with the debit card. There may be minor risk involved, but it’s not idiotic, and aside from haggling prices down before sliding plastic, I can’t think of any way to derive income (that admittedly costs less than fifty for Target and has other problems) from spending short of not spending at all.
Of course, Rall also wrote this.
Obsessive attention to (some) details is something I lack.
wrote this.
t4toby —
I just close my eyes and think of (Jill) Ireland.
Ummm. Just gave away my age, didn’t I.
To Rall’s Plan, I’d add raising the top take rate on individuals to 50%. The alternative minimum tax for the top bracket would be an arm and a leg.
Who’s Jill Ireland?
Now I gave away my age.
And I don’t even know why Cialis would come in chewable form. I just keep getting spam trying to convince me to buy it.
They want to go back to the ’50’s? Let ’em.
Top marginal tax rates, 1950-1959… 91%
MaineMan: “… the air’s gonna come out of the balloon one way or another and that we (meaning us peons) are in for a lengthy period of tough shit no matter what we do.” Yep, on all levels. All the dancing currently is over how to determine how fast the air comes out, which determines how suddenly the economy has to adjust (adjust = ‘degree of shitstorm’ in econo-ease).
Ted Rall has it right as far as I’m concerned, which means the powers that be have way too much $ invested in making sure most, if not all of what he lists doesn’t happen, at least without a whole lot of fighting it and behind the scenes dealing. I’d love to see a return to REAL taxes on the upper 1%, hell, even the upper 1/2 of 1%.
i don’t have a job. so i’m not worried.
Jill Ireland:
http://www.whosdatedwho.com/news/story_view.asp?ID=7509
She was really hot in the old timey B&W days…
http://www.whosdatedwho.com
I refuse to click on any website with faulty grammar in the URL.
Dative pronouns. Hmmph.
Please ignore if already aware or if not interested. I just fired up the old RSS thingy and saw that Bérubé is back in the saddle again.
WP will not accept my snarky pedantic suggestion that the Jill Ireland URL should really read ‘whosedatedwhom‘. It’s the dative pronoun, you see.
It really sucks the humour out of a joke when you have to explain it to WP.
Or perhaps WP simply hates me because I don’t wear a tie.
Fafblog! seems to be getting its metamucil, too.
Or maybe you wear your tie on the wrong side, like PeeJ.
Cheer up, Smut Clyde!
IT’S A TIE NOT A CAPE!!!1!
When you use your credit card for everyday expenses, the credit card company charges the store that accepts your card a processing fee which I understand is some percentage of the sale. So they make money even if you pay your balance off every month; and the fee comes out of the store’s profit margin, so accepting credit cards raises prices (and/or reduces profits). Credit cards are uniformly evil.
I’ve had stores ask that I use my debit card instead of a credit card if I had one, because with a debit card the fee to them is less or zero, I’m not sure which.
Oh Great Cthulhu!
Oh man, that bill died a horrible, horrible death, and I wouldn’t want it any other way.
Oh, hell yeah. I’ll be screwed. And I’ll have lots of friggin’ ‘tude too.
Thank God for the Intertubes because without it and all the funny commenters and bloggers, I would be very depressed. Also, I suspect I would not know even a quarter of the troof.
When you think the R’s have reached bottom, they unlimber their shovels and dig.
It is to laff that they fucked up their own campaign.
Wow, Cole’s site is crapping out again. I haven’t been able to get in all day.
I got in.
The pukes were planning to blame the Democrats for the passage of the Bail-Out bill even before the vote.
But the vote failed, and now their lies blaming Pelosi for hurt feelings are exposed.
The pubes wanted to run the same play they ran back in 1994, when they blamed the Democrats for cleaning up after the Reagan-GHW Bush deficits.
War on Terror Boardgame. You’re either with them or against them or sometimes both.
http://www.waronterrortheboardgame.com/
The gallery is fun: http://www.waronterrortheboardgame.com/evilgallery/
The pukes were planning to blame the Democrats for the passage of the Bail-Out bill even before the vote.
Oh, man.. sometimes humor is SO hard (it’s no wonder that violence is sometimes the instinct – the catchphrase should be “fight, laugh, or flight”)
OT – but a funny and depressing article:
One of the best bits:
Forget the pablum concocted to pacify the masses; the POTUS could actually be ‘anyone who hails from a family with direct ties to the power elite of our bourgeois democracy or who shares their sociopathic tendencies and is willing to sell their souls to do their bidding.’
Sums it up quite well.
(hopefully, the link works!)
I reckon’ I’ll have to cut back on my ass waxing to once a month. It’s damned pricey, particularly when you figure in the tip, which is twice the cost of the service! Still, I don’t begrudge the fellers down at “I’m Grooming Your Butte” salon, it’s nasty work and they have to work in very uncomfortable conditions (they wear those sliver fire protection suits that are used in oil well fires, including gloves, helmets and face shields).
The upper half of the top 1% totally looks down on the lower half of the top 1%.
Liberal Rob wrote:
When you use your credit card for everyday expenses, the credit card company charges the store that accepts your card a processing fee which I understand is some percentage of the sale. So they make money even if you pay your balance off every month; and the fee comes out of the store’s profit margin, so accepting credit cards raises prices (and/or reduces profits). Credit cards are uniformly evil.
I’ve had stores ask that I use my debit card instead of a credit card if I had one, because with a debit card the fee to them is less or zero, I’m not sure which.”
Dude, with all due respect, I could care less about cutting back on the costs of the places I buy shit at. At our supermarket, veggie burgers cost 5 bucks now; fuji apples are 3 bucks a pound. If my CC cuts into their profit, f–k ’em. Pay your CC bill everymnth and use them for every purchase, and better than your debit card, you’ll reap gift cards.
Getcher war on, bailout edition.
CC percentage charges to retailers vary quite a bit depending the card (Discover is the worst), on total annual sales volume (higher volume = lower percentage), average size of sale, the package of services the retailer signs on for and types verifications, etc.
Generally speaking, small, independent retailers get hosed. They’re squeezed from both ends. Their wholesale costs are much higher than chain stores (in many cases, 5%-10% below what chain stores sell the same item for) because they can’t buy in anywhere near the same volume – and yet they have to be at least somewhat comparable in price and work to make sure that the customer service they provide is good enough for folks to accept a slightly higher sticker cost. And then the CC charge cuts even that margin by another 2%-4%. But most of them can’t really afford NOT to accept at least SOME cards.
By all means, us the plastic at the Big Box (if you MUST shop there). But give your local independent retailer a break and pay by check or cash, eh?
Thank god the republicans shot down the bailout bill.
Now we can commiserate with our redstate pals, we will brag on our strawberry farms and they will brag on their ammunition stocks.
America has not been so together since 9-12!
Galactic Dustbin said,
I’m starting a company that sells leather goods …
Two words- “Shoe repair”.
Need more understanding, find an old person who lived thru the GD.
Yo MaineMan — remember cutting six-pack rings into a half-dozen open circles “to protect dolphins”? Have you ever seen a fucking dolphin in a land fill? The only way a dolphin gets his mouth muzzled shut by a six-pack and starves to death is if garbage is being dumped offshore in giant quantities. The army of 18-year-old Obama voters was weaned on this kind of silly bullshit.
I don’t know anyone under 25 who thinks that only three thousand odd people died when the Twin Towers collapsed, and I spent the weekend listening to a Coast Guard officer cry into his beer about the thousands of rotting corpses awaiting identification in the wake of Hurricane Ike, knowing full well that FEMA has billions for incineration but not one penny for refrigeration. You don’t have to convince people the government is lying; just get out of their way.
Once you know how the military disposes of nuclear and toxic waste, it’s kind of hard to feel shame about throwing aluminum cans in the bin along with fish heads and really old yogurt. And lower-middle class consumers need a lecture on which credit card to use the way Batman needs an extra butthole under one armpit.
Did I sleep through the poll showing Obama beating McCain by ten points? I didn’t, did I? So can we, pretty please, stow the Little Red Whole Earth Catalog Book for just one Presidential election? The Hopeful Trigonometer is a hard enough sale as it is.
Oh yeah — if you want to limit voter turnout to nutcases and dimbulbs, youse guys onna left, please keep pumping out the “shit sandwich v. tainted ham and stale bread sandwich” comparisons. That crap has the Standing Wave of Truth looming large behind it, and unfortunately it happens to be self-evident and a fair summation of the choices. So either knock it off or shut up about people not bothering to vote because they’re fucked either way.
Just received an envelope from Lehman Brothers telling me that I have already received my last paycheck. Under the terms of my severance package, I was owed 6 more checks. But they are gone.
The only way a dolphin gets his mouth muzzled shut by a six-pack and starves to death is if garbage is being dumped offshore in giant quantities.
Tell that to the megagigantic plastic vortex of garbage growing in the Pacific ocean.
What, me worry?
My employer’s headquartered overseas, and we stayed far, far away from the subprime sheeeeeit. In fact, we’re told that the company looks at the current meltdown as an opportunity to buy failing competitors, in whole or in part.
I’m kinda hopin’ we can buy the GOP, lock, stock and barrel.
OB-GYN Kenobi, if your company does purchase it I have a bathtub in which you can drown it…
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