6
Ramengate Comes To A Boil
The Democratic nomination process has become surreal. To the point where I really can’t tell if this post from Lambert of Corrente is a joke:
As alert reader gqmartinez points out, $30 is a month’s worth of food, if you need to live on ramen noodles. And as alert reader BDBlue points out, it’s 15 weeks worth of school lunches for one of your kids.
Has it really come to this? Is the desperation of Lambert to defend Hillary’s Roman gas tax holiday as part of her increasingly scattershot campaign strategy really so acute? This let-them-eat-Ramen stuff is normally Chicagoboyz territory. If the great distinction between Clinton and Obama is the latter’s unwillingness to let us all have a few extra syrup sandwiches this summer … well, really. I’m at a loss for words. But then I am a bit parched, no thanks to Barack Obama and his elitist no-free-sip-of-Mountain-Dew-every-other-month policy. Fucking robber baron.
Look, forget about the usefulness or uselessness of the gas tax holiday for a moment. Put aside the fact that Obama, unlike Clinton and McCain, is clearly in cahoots with Chevron executives to hoard all the extra ketchup packets that could be feeding working families throughout the Rust Belt for decades to come. Is it not abundantly clear that both Democrats’ plans for phased troop withdrawals from Iraq will save taxpayers orders-of-magnitude more Ramen packets than thirty bucks’ worth? Important as it is to keep the noodle-wolf at bay, is this not the issue upon which we should be judging these candidates?
I’ve done that math, because after the dot com bubble burst, that was the situation I was faced with, and I was lucky, because my situation only lasted for months. Except I can top gqmartinez: My survival formula was dollar store spaghetti sauce. You can get two days out of a jar, and even with spaghetti, I could still get change back from my thirty! That was before things got really bad, and I went to the cans of generic pork and beans, 4 for a dollar. Plus, since by that time the gas and the electricity were off, I could heat the beans with the hotplate after stringing an extension cord out into the hall and plugging it into a socket I’d screwed into the light for the purpose. Too risky to boil water that way, I felt. What if I heard someone on the stairs and had to cut the power when the spaghetti was only half boiled?
You were lucky to have stairs! I had to get up at 10′clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, regurgitate six fluid ounces of generic pork and beans for resale to the dollar store, strangle myself with the extension cord and salvage loose parts from the broken hot plate to boil in subsidized ethanol to prepare a weak cup of tea that Barack Obama would throw in my face each evening before ritually mutilating my genitals with a razor-sharp Kusha knife while ululating wildly to savage songs celebrating the enslavement of American heartlanders!
Now, to Stoller, $30 is what? Seven vente lattes and a croissant? I’d say. Though maybe he goes for the pumps of vanilla syrup instead of the croissant. I really wouldn’t know.
Good point, friend Ludd, but when is the next peasant revolt against our faggot coffee overlords taking place? I have my own pitchfork and I hate mechanical looms and espresso contraptions with unnatural gears and steam vents and such.
Jesus Christ.
Brad adds: Incidentally, I love how Lambert and Armando have taken to referring to all Obama supporters as “the creative class,” as if millions of voters around the country are all a bunch of fruity Yanni-loving wimps. Meanwhile, the pro-Hillary bloggers are apparently a bunch of rough blue-collar lawyers or something. Who knows! I’m getting bloody sick of people being idiots over this primary, though.
Gavin adds: Say, while the gas tax holiday is subsidizing Mr. Moneyclip and his V-12 Jaguar, can people who don’t own cars — e.g. poor families, specifically in urban locales — have a tax holiday on something too? I’m thinking perhaps income. Let’s get together on this, kthx?
Gavin also adds: I can’t help mentioning: On the topic of dollar-store spaghetti sauce and domestic economy, I’m simply dazzled by the extravagance. Sauce from a store! From a store!
What the practical man or woman does in a low-money situation is to snap into what they now call the Mediterranean Diet, by getting acquainted with the wild, edible plants in the area. The cost is zero cents per pound — or less than that, even, if you charge a few bucks for weeding people’s yards or gardens. Many are unaware, for instance, that the common dandelion, Taraxacum officinale, was brought to North America on purpose, as a food plant. At the local Whole Foods, they sell dandelion greens for $3.50 a pound. And yet, look outside and what do you see but dandelions every ding-dang place you look? Furthermore, if it’s packaged spaghetti that’s for dinner, Alliaria petiolata, or garlic mustard, makes a darn good pesto and is also available literally by the freaking hundred-pound sack — i.e., people will pay you to get rid of it. There are many dozens of other plants like this. And, you know, I’ve never claimed not to be a strange person.
Honestly and in real life, I admit to a stash of foraged sumac (Rhus typhina) in the kitchen, which I sometimes use for drinks and as a spice. The stuff costs $6.50 a pound at the local Middle Eastern market, but cost me about 650 cents less than that at a roadside near Concord. Let the diamond-studded plutocrats sip their boughten Kool-Aid.
Smut Clyde said,
May 6, 2008 at 10:01
Now if I were reduced to a diet of ramen noodles and pork-and-bean cans, at the same time as
huffing so much petroldriving so much that the removal of the piddling US petrol tax would save me $30, then I would seriously think abouthuffing less petrolchanging my life-style.Also, I would like to request that you abandon this new-fangled trope of “latte-sipping” when accusing someone of elititude. Indeed, eschew it. Why can’t they sip chardonnay in their spare moments, like they used to be? Preferably imported chardonnay — the NZ economy depends on it.
plutocrat said,
May 6, 2008 at 10:56
[Solemn voice] $30 could buy one tenth of a share in Halliburton, my boy. Now if you hurry my bags up the stairs, I will have a shiny new penny for you.
JR said,
May 6, 2008 at 11:38
Smut Clyde has it exactly correct. if you spend enough money on gasoline to save $30 in gas tax, you probably don’t need the help. I live in a smallish Indiana town and use about four gallons of gas a week. At 18 cents a gallon, that would mean about 64 cents of gas tax a week.
And while my wife and I are college-educated, our “creative class” income’s food budget is tight enough that cup o’ noodles is still part of our lunch menu.
So Hillary thinks she can buy my vote today for 64 cents a week. I am so stupid, apparently, that 64 cents and some beer drinkin’, shot slammin’, gun shootin’ jibberish ads are enough to win me over.
For God’s sake, at least have the courage to pander in a less insulting way. Offer me a couple thou in a tax rebate scam or student loan repayments and we might have something to talk about.
islmfaoscist said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:10
In lambert’s comments to his own post it seems he grasps momentarily that the $30 all the noise is about is a purely imaginary $30.
Only momentarily, though.
jim said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:27
The whole Ramengate angle conveniently leaves out the PRICE that the poor will later be made to cough up for this inspired act of economic psychosis, since the shortfall will surely have to be accounted for, to the last bloody nickel - as well as the cost of administering it. Oh how droll.
Hmm … by this McLogic I calculate that Bush’s $600 “economic stimulus” backhander would buy TWENTY weeks of Ramen, so I guess he’s the least elitist of all! Just don’t tell his “Base” that: they loathe the poor, since their Calvinist vibe sees them as God’s little toerags. Being poor isn’t just bad taste, it’s proof that you’re EVIL.
Even back when I was on Welfare & thus relatively destitute, I wasn’t stupid enough to rely on Ramen, since it’s a fastlane ticket to chronic malnutrition - macaroni is like sirloin compared to that gunk. As is brown rice, although it’s rapidly getting pricey.
Heartily recommend Ye Olde Brown Beans & oatmeal (no, not as an exciting combo), both are dirt-cheap & jam-packed with nutrients. Cinnamon & marg (or butter if you’re bourgeois enough) with some brown sugar, & oatmeal becomes beautiful.
Patkin said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:28
Yeah, why can’t we get all Econ 401, when they just start making shit up.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:31
Yeah, that’s all I want sometimes too. Just a politician, who can be as corrupt as they want to be, but doesn’t talk to me as if I am a freakin’ idiot. Is that too much to ask?
Yes, apparently that is too much to ask.
Rob (Formerly) In Toronto said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:40
As a public service …
many of the things on this page (not a blogwhore) will give you more money in your pocket as a result of changing your driving habits than dropping the gas tax will … and they have the added bonus of not being temporary.
Yeah, I know .. there I go expecting people to actually modify their behavior instead of having a politician pull a magic pony out of their ass… stupid me
Rob (Formerly) In Toronto said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:42
And yes .. that really is an ugly metaphor this early in the day .. sorry about that…
Some Guy said,
May 6, 2008 at 12:55
What the the blue FUCK are you eating that $30 will buy you a months worth of it?! Jesus!
Dollar store spaghetti sauce? 4 for a dollar pork and beans? Jesus fuck buns, why don’t you just live off free condiments you steal form restaurants? What of all that perfectly good used fry grease they just throw away EVERY NIGHT! What elitists!
Shorter Lambert: You fat-cats didn’t finish your plankton; now it’s mine!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Minutes_Over_Tokyo
TR said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:19
Where did Lambert get the details of how much money we’d save? Was it from the text of the bill Hillary submitted to Congress?
What’s that? There’s no such bill? Her proposal to suspend the gas tax in two weeks hasn’t even been drafted and submitted to Congress?
Gosh, it almost sounds like she’s completely full of shit here. But I’ve been told that Obama is the one who’s all talk and no action. What gives?
Mike Nilsen said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:36
So this jerk wants to play “What can I buy my broke-ass self with $30″ game? Tell me, Lambert, how many gallons of gas a week did you buy during the ramen-scarfing period of your life? One gallon? Two? Zero? If you were that broke, wouldn’t a gas-guzzling commute be the first thing you’d rectify to save money? Priority number one?
Now say that you have to drive, and you used five gallons a week of gas as a college student (or whatever). Assuming you get that entire 18.4 cents a gallon (which you won’t), that’s only $14.72 over a four-month summer max max max. Not even enough to keep your sorry ass in ramen. Adjust accordingly for your gas consumption and oil-industry rapaciousness.
He’s also assuming that everyone who is broke enough so that an extra $30 would matter is stupid enough to think that Obama’s an elitist because he opposes a bogus windfall for Exxon.
Not only is this argument philosophically puerile, but it’s mathematically lame.
Arky H8r of VürdPress said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:39
Let them eat Ramen!
I hope these twats had absolutely nothing to say when Rudi “Il Douche” Guiliani didn’t know the price of milk.
Is there a way we can force them to try the dollar a day diet for the entire summer? I bet by the time July rolled around they’d be too fucking weak crawl into the internons and leave this shit every where.
Anyway, there’s only two of us (plus cats and one car). I know nothing about school lunches but I think they’re rather more than … .40 if my math is right.
I’ll step back and let someone with kids ream these [gasp] ELITIST fuckwads.
R. Porrofatto said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:39
This is ridiculous. If you are so poor you have to eat spaghetti sauce* and beans for three months straight it’s unlikely that you would need or afford to drive the 3,000 or so miles it would take to see that $30 (assuming the .18/gallon savings actually materialized), and it would place you within a very small population of poor people who could afford A. a car, and B. $225 worth of gasoline every month.
Besides, the gas tax is a consumption tax. So these folks, who are laughing their gilded asses off at just how hopelessly benighted the proles are to be arguing over such nickles and dimes, get a gas tax holiday, too, in addition to the myriad other tax holidays the rest of us are excluded from, like paying no more than a maximum 15% income tax and no Social Security or Medicare. Want to bring in revenue while decreasing gas consumption? Eliminate the SUV exemption for the gas-guzzler tax. Want to really help poor people? CAMPAIGN FOR A DOUBLING OF THE MINIMUM WAGE. And even that wouldn’t keep it abreast of inflation.
*BTW, folks who have experienced more stringent and intractable non-dot-com-bubble poverty would attest that even dollar-store spaghetti sauce is more expensive than making your own from cans of tomato sauce.
lobbey said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:42
Really, this needs to be said, if Hilary blows this for Obama, then the levels of hate for Nadar in 2000 is going to look like a mild tropical breeze by comparison.
As a non Yank, it wants to make me scream. If John ‘you cunt prick’ McCain sneaks through for all of this, I propose that the rest of the world pays a visit for a good bit of whoop ass.
Really, 8 years of this shit, and the Democrats couldn’t score from 3m out in a empty net, when the goal keeper has just been shot and the defence is smoking crack in the stands (add your own american footie/basketball/baseball analogy here).
OneMadClown said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:43
Brad adds: Incidentally, I love how Lambert and Armando have taken to referring to all Obama supporters as “the creative class,” as if millions of voters around the country are all a bunch of fruity Yanni-loving wimps.
I dunno Brad, it does open the door to us to start referring to Lambert, Armando and their ilk as the ‘un-creative class’. After all, I imagine that a few Teh Sadly alums could whip up a far more creative and satisfying feast with their imaginary 30 Hillabucks than Ramen McFrankenbeans there.
Even if not for teh funny, I’d lurk the Sadly, No! comment threads for Mikey recipes.
Rob (Formerly) In Toronto said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:43
Not only is this argument philosophically puerile, but it’s mathematically lame
But remember that mathematics is one of those elite things that we are supposed to not be interested in…
Please God, can you end this Primary season today… please .. please
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 13:52
Agree or disagree with Lambert on this particular subject (and I disagree), he’s not a typical Hillary hack. Armando and Taylor Marsh, et al., are attacking Obama from the right. Marsh is an admitted “Reagan Democrat.” Armando’s long been a wingnut-sympathizing jackass; Armando’s idea of a “big tent” means diluting the message until it will appeal to wingnuts, and include them as supporters. Lambert, OTOH, feels Obama is too conservative (and he’s not fundamentally wrong on that); Lambert’s attacks are meant to be leftwing.
I personally think it’s silly to attack one triangulator in the service of aiding another, but I can recognize that Lambert means well.
OneMadClown said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:01
In all seriousness…do y’all think its this race itself that’s driven some of our friends completely out of their fucking minds, or was it merely the device that revealed their deeply buried inner asshole? (Armando excluded, he was always a douche.) Some folks that I used to really enjoy reading or talking to have said some things that can’t be described outside of bugfuck crazy.
I just can’t wrap my head around the levels of pure, visceral madness that people are managing to whip up in service to their preferred candidate (usually Hillary). If either of them looked like a real magic sparkle pony revolutionary leader ready to usher in a new age of world peace and environmental change and happiness and really good free weed, then maybe I could grasp the fanatical devotion a little better. But they ain’t. Obama was my initial preference, and said preference has gotten stronger in light of a lot of the shit that the Clinton camp has pulled thus far, but I’m not a google-eyed loony handing out Obama buttons and flowers at the airport.
I’m so freaking depressed.
Doodle Bean said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:06
All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
R. Porrofatto said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:08
BTW, the comments over there (and so many places these days) are a GOP operative’s wet dream. I’m no conspiranoid, but the non-stop undermining of Obama and Clinton (with Gooper talking-points no less) on putative liberal sites is really getting to look like the RNC trained a bunch of home-schooled Patrick Henry grads to pretend to be Democrats in blog comments. Depressing.
Christopher said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:10
I also can’t quite tell if this is parody or not. If it is, it’s marvelous, and if it isn’t:
Here’s something nobody has mentioned: If you don’t eat, you die.
Now, I’m sleepy enough that I might be missing something, but it seems to me that if you’re alive, you’re already finding a way to get your minimum food requirements.
Which means, really, that you’re going to spend your $30 on something other then food, or maybe double your food budget and go for something luxurious, like a can of Spam.
I’m not totally ignorant of people for whom an extra $30 is a real windfall, but those folks are in a much more fucked up situation then less then a hundred bucks over the summer will solve.
This is actually a weird inverse version of those Wall Street Journal editorials claiming nobody who owns an iPod could be poor; both of them think that a it only takes one, maybe two Benjamins to completely pull yourself out of poverty and enter the middle class.
owlbear1 said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:10
That’s what happens when you let Republicans into the party. They start throwing shit and demand everyone thank them for the air freshener.
Smut Clyde said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:15
All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
That’s what they told Kennedy, just before the “Ich bin ein Berliner” speech.
His Grace said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:22
Let’s assume for a moment that a working family can save $30 on gas via Hillary’s plan. Even if that’s so, gas prices (due to increased summer demand) are more than likely to go up more than 18 cents, even if the gas companies were benevolent. Thus the family would be saving in the sense that they wouldn’t be paying $30 extra in gas money. Yes it helps for someone living paycheck to paycheck, any extra money for a person in such circumstances is useful. But it wouldn’t revitalize their budget by any means.
Of course, a person who drives a hummer might see a bit more “savings” but even so it wouldn’t substantially reduce the cost of filling up. All the tax holiday would do is make people think that they might be saving some money. Given the high rates of American debt, encouraging such thinking would not bode well for an economic recovery.
El Cid said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:22
By the way, why are all the pro-gas tax holiday Democrat suckers fantasizing that alongside the “gas tax holiday” the windfall profits tax would ACTUALLY PASS on the oil companies?
Yeah, about that — with a barely non-Republican Senate and Bush Jr. holding the veto pen, exactly how again is HRC proposing to get the ‘excess profits tax’ through to the Earth 1 universe and thus not simply rob the highway and infrastructure funds of every bit of that ‘holiday’???
Flying Spaghetti Monster™³²®© said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:23
Ramen.
Smut Clyde said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:24
All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
Serves me right for eating that whole big bag of dicks.
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:26
There is a kernel of truth in Lambert’s “creative class” swipe. Only thing is, the time to say something about it was several months ago. But not now — unless you can do it like Matt Taibbi, which is to say that you can do it with accuracy and subtlety by applying it to both candidates and the establishment they represent. Lambert isn’t.
Both candidates are corporate whores not likely to do much for class issues or to end the Iraq War. Even so, they are better than the Republican alternative. Lambert should accept this and can it until the Dem candidate wins in November. Then he can crank it back up and I’ll be right there with him, regardless of the winner. Until then, though, he should STFU.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:46
Why doesn’t Hillary make gas free?
LittlePig said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:50
I used to enjoy stopping by Corrente, but I’m having to avoid them until the election because the normally-sane Lambert has gone a bit off the deep end.
And my fellow Arkansan HTML correctly points out that both candidates are corporate whores - there are policy points Lambert could make that would help Hillary without throwing Barack under the bus. This idiotic gas tax proposal is not one of them (”Let’s stick it to the oil companies by cutting back on our road money! Whoo-hoo!”) - the best that Lambert could do is completely ignore it. “‘Almost as Republican as John McCain’ is not a great selling point.
And ‘Econ 101′ is surely a jab at Atrios, who dares to point out the economic fallacy of it all. The Baby Blue Satan will not be pleased.
Rich said,
May 6, 2008 at 14:52
school is out in the summer anyway. i guess we can could but the $30 in the bank for next fall.
John Cole said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:03
I sometimes heat roadkill on my engine block, so yeah, not only will that imaginary 30 bucks I save allow me to buy more gas to get to work to feed my family, but literally, it is feeding my family.
Go Lambert! Hero to the working man.
Fucking idiot.
John Chimpo said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:06
Precisely, Mr. Mencken. It’s pretty galling to see a bunch of people who are clearly in Florida’s creative class using one of the calling cards of said demographic to clutch their pearls about…the creative class.
I don’t think Clinton and Obama are that different, either. One is old-style DLC politics (Clinton) and the other is DLC 2.0 (Obama). Given those two choices, I prefer Obama because I might get something closer to my policy preferences out of him; I know I won’t get that with Clinton except on preserving a woman’s rights over her body.
Before people like Larry Johnson and SusanUnPC and Armando turned into such swill factories I was honestly torn between Clinton and Obama. But I’ll take a bunch of fanboys and fangirls over a bunch of tantrum-throwing dirt merchants who don’t give a fuck about the party any day of the week.
Now I’m going to go get my morning tall latte with extra foam and an double shot of “fuck you”. Dont’ get so worked up reminiscing about your pork and bean days that you spill your macchiatos on your keyboards, Clinton hacks.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:15
There is a kernel of truth in Lambert’s “creative class” swipe.
So, wait, you think there is actually a real thing called the “creative class”? I always figured it was some horseshit made up to sell a book.
Do you perhaps mean “the middle class”? i.e. Lambert is a member of the middle class, and he does not know enough about he working class?
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:15
How much brie and chablis can I buy with $30?
What about fancy ham? How does that convert to fancy ham?
spencer said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:18
If John ‘you cunt prick’ McCain sneaks through for all of this, I propose that the rest of the world pays a visit for a good bit of whoop ass.
Please do. You’ll be greeted with flowers and chocolates.
At least, that’s how I’d greet you. Can’t speak for my in-laws, though.
Hillajohn McClainton said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:20
Petrol et Circenses!
Brad R. said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:20
HTML - well yes, a lot of Obama supporters are a bunch of yuppies who cringe at the thought of genuine economic populism. And of course, the same is true of Clinton supporters. I hope I didn’t give the impression that I thought Obama supporters were the de facto good guys or anything.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:21
I just think that, if we mean to talk about the middle class vs. the working class, we should use those terms, rather than a euphamism like “The Creative Class”.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:26
HTML - well yes, a lot of Obama supporters are a bunch of yuppies who cringe at the thought of genuine economic populism. And of course, the same is true of Clinton supporters.
Right. At this point, the election is:
Yuppie douchebags vs. The congenitally insane
I’m personally hoping that the yuppie douchebags win.
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:28
No, course not, Brad. I’m just making the general point that not all Obama-bashers are the same.
Jennifer said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:28
This is why I had to stop going around corrente a couple of months back. Hopefully once this damned primary is over, sanity will return.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:30
Armando eats shit.
But he could definitely get work posing in ads for anger management workshops.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:31
Euphemisms and political correctness are the Josef Goebbels of Liberal Fascism.
Brad R. said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:32
HTML - I see what you’re saying about Lambert attacking Obama from the left, HOWEVER it’s being done through the prism of wingnut faux-populist economics. It’s akin to supporting repealing the inheritance tax to save family farms.
Jennifer said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:34
The whole Ramengate angle conveniently leaves out the PRICE that the poor will later be made to cough up for this inspired act of economic psychosis, since the shortfall will surely have to be accounted for, to the last bloody nickel - as well as the cost of administering it.
As I noted elsewhere on this topic, people who rely on public transportation won’t get anything from this - in most areas of the country, they are the working poor. And since public transport gets a lot of its funding from highway money…those people can maybe look forward to a “fare increase holiday”.
spencer said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:36
I sometimes heat roadkill on my engine block
Only “sometimes?”
You fucking elitist.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:39
Euphemisms and political correctness are the Josef Goebbels of Liberal Fascism.
See, there you go.
Don’t know why “The Creative Class” chaps my hide so much. Maybe it’s because it’s such utter, insulting, stuck-up horseshit.
El Cid said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:39
Hey, don’t worry — when those potholes from lack of upkeep destroy some blue collar workin’ class schlump’s front suspension and costs $750 to repair, I’m sure Hillary will suddenly produce a “car repair holiday”.
At least until the bridges fall down.
Oh, I forgot — she promises that she’ll get the Lieberman-topped Senate to pass a windfall / excess profits tax on the oil companies over solid Republican / conservative Democratic opposition and over a Bush Jr. veto.
Sure. Okay. Whatever.
Brad R. said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:42
Don’t know why “The Creative Class” chaps my hide so much.
I do. It’s because the people using it as an insult work as lawyers (Armando) or professional talk show hosts (Marsh). It’s hilariously fraudulent.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:43
Yeah, the math on this is just stupid. Ok, at 18.5c/gal., $30/mo. works out to burning ~162 gal/mo… let’s lowball that to 160/mo. This works out to 40 gal/wk., and at $3.50/gal. (if you’re lucky), this works out to $140/wk.
There are so many things wrong with this:
– 40 gal/wk. is a hella lot of gas to be wasting. This is pretty much four fillups a week with a standard car. Unless you commute from East Bumfuck Nowhere and/or drive a gas guzzling SUV, you’re not likely to burn that much gas.
– If you can spend $140/wk. on gas, then it’s not likely that you live off of ketchup packets and mint candy.
– Giving a tax break on gas will make it less likely that you’re going to change driving habits/buy a more efficient car/carpool/use mass transit. Oh well, so much for saving the environment and buying more time before peak oil.
spencer said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:44
I do. It’s because the people using it as an insult work as lawyers (Armando) or professional talk show hosts (Marsh). It’s hilariously fraudulent.
I had a much longer explanation ready to go, but this gets to the heart of it with ruthless efficiency. So never mind.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:46
Hey this keeps getting better. Now corrente is saying that Obama is SO full of shit trying to tell us that the tax savings won’t be passed on to the consumer - in fact, consumers may get UP TO 60%!!!
Those bastards just slashed my Ramen budget to $18.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:46
I just realized what a fine cigar I could get with $30.
Or, $30 would make 3 nice cigar-lighters.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:48
ketchup packets and mint candy
Now, a month’s worth of that sounds tasty!
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:50
if we mean to talk about the middle class vs. the working class, we should use those terms, rather than a euphamism like “The Creative Class”.
But I think it’s a eusefull euphemism. The creative class is a very special part of the (upper) middle class: the mouthpiece.
I keep thinking of a Max Blumenthal vid where Max interviews these two elderly female black activists. He asks them if they read blogs; they look at him like he’s a freak, politely convey to him that they don’t know what the fuck he’s talking about. My mind always goes back to them when I read some yuppie douchebag, usually an Obama supporter, go on and on about how Facebook (or whatever) is changing the way people connect with politics.
Students excluded, we’re all in the same boat here: that we write on the internet basically proves that we’re not part of the working class. And though some of us may be poor or just occasionally suffer lean periods, it’s not enough to overcome the bias inherent in the structure. The symbolism-over-substance nature of the two Dem candidates, especially in this context, was simply inevitable given the structure of the system and the class of the most vocal supporters.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:52
ZOMG N*GG*R IS GONNA PUT A BASKETBALL COURT IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 15:56
I do. It’s because the people using it as an insult work as lawyers (Armando) or professional talk show hosts (Marsh). It’s hilariously fraudulent.
True. But just as paranoids can have real enemies, hypocrites can have real points (even if they have no personal right to make said points).
lobbey said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:00
Please do. You’ll be greeted with flowers and chocolates. At least, that’s how I’d greet you. Can’t speak for my in-laws, though.
Obviously I was speaking rhetorically, us dope smoking European hippies couldn’t rouse ourselves for such a mission!! However, the point still stands, how on earth could old chops McCain even have a chance in this cycle. I embrace someone’s comments above, you have to wonder if there are a number of GoP operatives floating around a number of lefty blogs writing crap like this.
One thing you have to admire the repubs, though, the message comes down from on high, and eveyone gets on message, even though 70% of them think McCain is an asshole. The dems are like a god-damn council meeting.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:06
Students excluded, we’re all in the same boat here: that we write on the internet basically proves that we’re not part of the working class. And though some of us may be poor or just occasionally suffer lean periods, it’s not enough to overcome the bias inherent in the structure. The symbolism-over-substance nature of the two Dem candidates, especially in this context, was simply inevitable given the structure of the system and the class of the most vocal supporters.
Absolutely. I’m glad you pointed that out, because it’s a point that I’ve made to people who have not wanted to hear it. Yes, we denizens of the blogosphere need to be occasionally reminded that we really are a skewed sample, and that we’re almost all middle class or higher. And yes, it definitely does warp our politics if we’re not careful to note its effects.
I remember once I said to some people, “The internet is mostly used by the middle and upper classes and it doesn’t represent the entire society that well”. They didn’t want to hear it. “Oh, but they can just go to the library, etc.”
It’s amazing what some people will tell themselves.
El Cid said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:08
If you want to talk about the American class system, and you want to start talking about those sectors which are powerful, influential, elite, elitist, and are not the capitalist or inherited wealth upper classes, you would not be looking at various well-educated “creative” types.
There are indeed servants and spokespersons for power.
They run your major news production services — you know, the ones which tell you each and every time that we so totally have to go to war this one time.
They are the ones farmed out by the “think tanks” which arose to such prominence in the 1970s because the business classes got tired of the scholarly revolt of the 1960s and 1970s in which the formerly docile academics now had a few who got tired of the business class and the war class’ crap.
So if you want to start taking on the elitist sub-classes who sneer at the average working American and whose position in the economy is parasitic, fine by me — but what you’re going to capture is the heads of major ideological institutions, not community artists meeting at their favorite hipster coffee shop.
Oh, but I forget — this is America, so when we talk about class divisions etc., we always have to be impressionistic about it, and ignore any actual possibility of studying the class systems which pretty damn consistently shape power, law, regulation, and the economy in this country.
Brad R. said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:12
I remember once I said to some people, “The internet is mostly used by the middle and upper classes and it doesn’t represent the entire society that well”. They didn’t want to hear it.
Yep. And that’s why most of the “Netroots” concept is a joke - yes, it’s good for raising money for political campaigns, but it isn’t the same as organizing workers to form a local union. Don’t get me wrong, I think raising money for campaigns is valuable, if for no other reason to keep wingnuts away from the levers of power, but it can’t be the be-all, end-all.
Thomas Sowell said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:12
The fact is, how can Obama not repeal the gas tax while still being unable to bowl?
It’s amazing how liberals, who are the people most inclined to think they are right about everything, are sometimes wrong about some things.
Obama has been living a lie, because he doesn’t believe in not not repudiating vanity.
You can find these “random thoughts” and more in my column at TownHall! I’m so smart.
D.N. Nation said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:16
On May 6, 2008, the worldwide death rate is still holding steady at 100%.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:17
Oh, I FORGOT he couldn’t bowl, which just shows what an elitist I am. Maybe he’ll replace the White House bowling alley with his basketball court - using OUR gas tax money!
That is just what the terrorists would want.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:18
On May 6, 2008, the worldwide death rate is still holding steady at 100%.
Yup. And the fooling-ourselves rate isn’t far behind.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:19
Hey baby, I’m sorry about last weekend. Things will be different this time. Look, I even got you flowers, babe. I ain’t gonna hurt you again.
Lawnguylander said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:19
Gavin adds: Say, while the gas tax holiday is subsidizing Mr. Moneyclip and his V-12 Jaguar, can people who don’t own cars — e.g. poor people, specifically urban — have a tax holiday on something too? I’m thinking clothing or perhaps income. Let’s get together on this, kthx?
WTF are you talking about? Don’t you know this primary is all about the Plain (White) People of America? Specifically the ones over 30. Nobody else matters.
You know what would be the upside to Clinton winning? We’d have several months of her and McCain in competition to see who could be more bellicose towards Iran which would create a convenient atmosphere for those who want to attack them between now and November. Hopefully Clinton doesn’t use the word obliterate over and over again when talking about Iran because that would get old. I’d like to hear her threaten to turn Iran into glass. And that namby pamby nonsense about whether it was a good idea to vote to give Bush the authorization to destroy Iraq would be off the table completely and replaced by talk of the precious gift of USA Heartland Freedom we airmailed to those ungrateful Iraqis. I’d like to see McCain try to talk straighter than Clinton did here:
Stupid, freedom hating Iraqis.
D. Aristophanes said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:20
Mencken - it may be a useful euphemism, but it’s also being used in this context as yet another cudgel in the cyncial division of the country into the flyover base people and the coastal snobs. That it generally manifests as internal finger-wagging sessions by the coastal snobs — only natural, as national media-types mostly reside here — demonstrates how dishonest the phenomenon is. You have the wealthy and technologically dialed-in playing anthropologist-from-afar in describing the ticking heart of Peoria and pandering clumsily to its imagined opinion-makers, while simultaneously ignoring or even denigrating the politics of millions in their own urban neighborhoods.
It’s a double fucking, to put it bluntly. It’s a Matthews corridor framing of politics in this country and it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so goddamn pervasive.
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:22
Yes, we denizens of the blogosphere need to be occasionally reminded that we really are a skewed sample, and that we’re almost all middle class or higher. And yes, it definitely does warp our politics if we’re not careful to note its effects.
Seriously, someone should write a book on this. But then, that’s the paradox: no one who could write it is qualified, while anyone who could write it would never be able/allowed to do so.
The other paradox is more tragic: for the “creative class” race, gender and sexual-orientation issues are held at a premium over class concerns. But it is only by solving the class issue that race, gender and sexual-orientation problems can ever be truly fixed. (Make the poor less poor and most meaningful bigotries will “organically” wither away.)
Dan said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:22
She promises statehood for Guam, but the rest of us get $30? I want statehood! Statehood for everybody!
serena kitt said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:22
Mencken,
Really, let’s not make our points by comparing elderly black women to bloggers. Even if it’s in a video on the internet, and therefore true. I’m black, i use the internet, my grandmother’s black, she uses the internet. She sends me text messages, and she doesn’t look at me like a freak. I mean, those women are what, Al Sharpton’s generation? Julian Bond’s age? Barack Obama’s parents’ age? The age of my African-American studies professors who put the readings online and whatnot? We’re not all sharecroppin’ and sitting-in while you nice boys do all the Change.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:22
“We have given them the gift of freedom, the greatest gift you can give someone. Now it is really up to them to determine whether they will take that gift.”
No that was her discussing race relations.
D.N. Nation said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:23
Heh indoozle. From Senor Sowell’s latest droppings:
A collaborator? Wow. Nice libelous bullshit, Tom.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:25
I keep thinking of a Max Blumenthal vid where Max interviews these two elderly female black activists. He asks them if they read blogs; they look at him like he’s a freak, politely convey to him that they don’t know what the fuck he’s talking about
Yeah, honestly, I have gotten the same response when I have asked that question at my (mostly white) office.
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:28
Oh, but I forget — this is America, so when we talk about class divisions etc., we always have to be impressionistic about it, and ignore any actual possibility of studying the class systems which pretty damn consistently shape power, law, regulation, and the economy in this country.
Well, there’s being impressionistic and then there’s being pseudo-empirical about it.
So if you want to start taking on the elitist sub-classes who sneer at the average working American and whose position in the economy is parasitic, fine by me — but what you’re going to capture is the heads of major ideological institutions, not community artists meeting at their favorite hipster coffee shop.
All of the former are guilty, yes. But more than a few of the latter are guilty, too, albeit in a more subtle way.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:29
We’re not all sharecroppin’ and sitting-in while you nice boys do all the Change.
Serena, I don’t think that’s what he was saying. I don’t think he was saying that blacks don’t use the internet. Obviously, that’s false. I think he was simply pointing out that there are extremely politically significant sectors of the population that do not tend to use the internet, and whose concerns, therefore, are not well-represented in the online world. In other words, he was pointing out that while our blogtopia is cool, it has some gaping holes. And we ignore these holes at our peril.
HTML Mencken said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:31
The age of my African-American studies professors [professional - i.e. not poor] who put the readings online and whatnot? We’re not all sharecroppin’ and sitting-in while you nice boys do all the Change.
And here we go…
See y’all in the funny pages; I’m out to crack my whip on some sharecroppers.
Doodle Bean said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:35
All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
Serves me right for eating that whole big bag of dicks.
Smut Clyde,
All I’m gonna say is that you wrote it and not me!
Doodle Bean said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:35
I coulda sworn I closed that tag! Oh well, still recovering I guess…
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:48
But then, that’s the paradox: no one who could write it is qualified, while anyone who could write it would never be able/allowed to do so.
There might be a couple of people who could do it justice. Perhaps.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:49
Another example.
Gus said,
May 6, 2008 at 16:51
I really think most people see through this pandering, but I always come back to Mencken: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.” People just might be fucking stupid enough to fall for it.
Doodle Bean said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:02
I want statehood! Statehood for everybody!
Ummm, Dan? How are you gonna pay your State Troopers? Not to mention that governance will be difficult. I mean, you’re gonna have to build a State Capitol and everything!
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:07
I don’t know Gus - Remember when Jose Maria Aznar tried to win the 2004 election by pinning the Madrid train bombings on Basqe seperatists? That was only three days before the vote and the people still figured out that it might have something to do with the Iraq War and rallied behind Zapatero (who had been running behind) instead. Within six months Spain was out of Iraq and within a year gay marriage was legal
Assuming that Americans are as smart as the Spaniards, an October strike on Iran could backfire in a big way. And you know what they say about assuming!
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:13
And you know what they say about assuming!
I’ve tried to cultivate an attitude of detatchment. If I didn’t, I think I might be harder to live with.
atheist said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:17
There might be a couple of people who could do it justice.
Or, uh, you, HTML?
Arky H8r of VurdPress said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:26
Another thing to consider: The price of everything else went up in response to the high price of fuel. I don’t expect food producers to lower their prices because gas is 18 cents cheaper.
Come to think of it, would this holiday in gasbodia apply to diesel or will truckers still get hosed?
Either way you’re right. But in a way I wish McHillary would push this through (or at least produce a draft bill) but that isn’t going to happen because allowing people to see and experience the results of this brilliant plan would allow people to see the candidates are full of shit, and that’s what pisses me off the most. Neither of them has the least intention of pushing such a bill.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:31
Actually, everyone in Spain thought it was Basque separatists, including Zapatero (why not? it’s not unusual for ETA to attack). However, the Spaniards assumed Anzar was witholding information when the government announced that they found evidence it was Islamic, not Basque terrorists. If Anzar and his party really was trying to pin it on the Basques, something tells me that the government would’ve tried to withhold that information a little longer (ie: after the election), instead of a couple days after the bombing.
dday said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:33
Who exactly pays the medical bills for the guy who eats nothing but Ramen for a month?
stryx said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:50
Am I the only one who still associates $30 with a very specific unit of measurement? Back in the olden days, a full oz. sack cost that much. Kids these days pay that much for one sticky bud.
Now if anyone wanted to ensure getting elected with a massive landslide mandate, propose suspending the laws regarding the ganja. And maybe propose a free sack for everyone. Talk about your map changing election.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:54
This is now.
That was then.
This is now
That was then.
Tom Jones said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:54
It’s not unusual for ETA to attack
Damn! That’s the line I was searching for when I wrote that song…
Ginger Yellow said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:55
“What about fancy ham? How does that convert to fancy ham?”
Depends. Are we talking “Delicious for Chanukah” ham or just ordinary fancy ham?
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:55
Sorry, that was long and way off topic, I just had to vent.
Black NASCAR Star said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:57
Creative class = Apple computer users
Real Americans use Commodore VIC 20s.
OneMan said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:59
“He’s also assuming that everyone who is broke enough so that an extra $30 would matter is stupid enough to think that Obama’s an elitist because he opposes a bogus windfall for Exxon.”
Can’t find a cite right now but apparently, he’s right. I read in Newsweek (I’m pretty sure…the article, wherever it was, cited poll results) that Obama’s opposition to the gas tax holiday (gag) has hurt him and further cemented his “elitist” label among the stupid and poor.
Fuck. I’m starting to think that once again we’re going to get the leaders we deserve.
Mike Nilsen said,
May 6, 2008 at 17:59
If I bowl, but I really suck at it, am I an elitist?
If I put reduced-fat cheese on my cheesesteak, does that make me an elitist?
If I work across the street from Brooks Brothers, am I at risk for Aggravated Elitism?
I getting so worried that someone will think I’m an elitist that I can barely walk into Fourbucks to order a triple half-caff soy fuckaccino any more.
Black NASCAR Star said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:01
$30 = dime bag w/moderate stem & seed content.
Travis said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:02
Who exactly pays the medical bills for the guy who eats nothing but Ramen for a month?
Under Clinton’s plan, you do. OR ELSE.
DAS said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:04
At the local Whole Foods, they sell dandelion greens for $3.50 a pound. And yet, look outside and what do you see but dandelions every ding-dang place you look?
Unlike the case with arugula, charging the $$$ for dandelions is fair enough. Have you ever actually tried to grow dandelions on purpose? They may spring up like weeds where you don’t want them, but they are cussed creatures that will never grow in any garden plot if they figure you intend to grow them there.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:05
$30 is, by definition, three dime bags.
In Boston that will buy you about 1/16th
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:06
not that I would know from personal experience…
Black NASCAR Star said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:06
$30 = 80 pounds of potatoes.
Is Lambert suggesting working class people are stupid?
p_lukasiak said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:07
If the great distinction between Clinton and Obama is the latter’s unwillingness to let us all have a few extra syrup sandwiches this summer … well, really. I’m at a loss for words.
that distinction is being drawn by Obama supporters, you stupid wankjob. Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.
There are people who are really getting hit hard by the increase in gas prices, and any little bit would help. Get off your high horse, and get a freaking clue — Obama’s arrogance and stupidity is going to mean at least four years of McCain, because he’s telling working class americans to eat Ramen noodles.
serena kitt said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:09
Really, cracking the whip?
Turn down the snark. If you can’t explain your “race is class” argument without cracking wise in ways that might actually offend people, do you really think you can have an interracial dialogue about race and class?
Righteous Bubba said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:11
Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.
So making an issue out of a policy is arrogant?
Travis said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:12
I think “elitist” can be added to the list of words that no longer have any actual meaning.
Jennifer said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:18
I’m not even going to mention what could be used as a source of protein in those noodles, but some of you, like pedestrian, might be able to guess why I won’t….
willyjsimmons said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:19
Ummmm…
nice pivot.
But ummmmm….
their Iraq plans are pretty much the same? No?
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:21
I think any word ending in “ist” or “ism” makes up an entire lexicon of words that no longer have any actual meaning… including “list”, “fist”, “schism”, “prism”… well okay, maybe those don’t count.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:25
But what if it’s an Apple I?
Jeff said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:26
I’m so glad that I read all the comments to this post. Before, when I had only read the Correntewire stuff, I was worried that poverty was a problem for some people in America.
Thank you all for setting me straight.
fahey said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:28
I don’t think he is attacking from the left he’s attacking from any direction possible, damn the consequences or veracity of his argument.
Mwangangi said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:29
“Real Americans use Commodore VIC 20s.”
REALER Americans use Texas Instruments TI 99-4/As.
Nylund said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:34
Since the weather is finally nice, I’ve traded in my monthly mass-transit pass for my bicycle. If I do this all summer, I will save so much, I will never have to worry about going hungry again for as long as I shall live. Surely I will also have enough left over to fix all your broken bridges as well.
Me said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:34
This is all really just a variation on that shameful episode a few months back where the nuttier elements of the right were picking through that family’s garbage and examining their countertops. I said it then, and I’ll say it now: if your electoral strategy is to tell Americans that they ought to be happy just to be alive, you need to rethink your approach.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:35
I’m not even going to mention what could be used as a source of protein in those noodles, but some of you, like pedestrian, might be able to guess why I won’t….
I thank you for your restraint. We should work on a euphemism that doesn’t have the whole Pon Raul effect of calling advocates from across the internet.
Kosher Calamari, perhaps?
Rightwingsnarkle said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:41
I want statehood! Statehood for everybody!”
Hey, man - l’etat, c’est moi.
fahey said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:41
Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.
p_lukasiak are you serous?
You can get away with telling lies in Corrente’s little echo chamber, but outside that little den of fools saying crap like this makes you look like a idiot.
Hillary has been talking this crap non stop for a week. She’s so damn busy talking about it she forgot to write the legislation, and she better get busy ’cause memorial day is 3 weeks away. I can’t wait to see her standing behind Bush as he signs the bill. Talk about ponies…
Mwangangi said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:42
I agree that the class = race example was poorly chosen. I’ve NEVER earned more than $30,000/year (matter of fact I’m “living” on about $12,000). I’m black and I’m more internet savvy than my friend, who happens to be a programmer.
Of course I went to a science/math magnet school, so one could argue that I adopted a mindset that was outside my financial status. That argument would distract from the point I’m trying to make which is that race, class, and money don’t correlate with information or internet access.
Arky H8r of VurdPress said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:45
Well pedestrian, at least you can rely on Iron Babs to make insulting comments about the survivors.
Consistency is a sign of a beautiful mind.
Jay B. said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:46
Really, cracking the whip?
Turn down the snark. If you can’t explain your “race is class” argument without cracking wise in ways that might actually offend people, do you really think you can have an interracial dialogue about race and class?
Yeah, I’m with serena, HTML. You bitch and moan about the creative class bullshit when, in your example, old black women don’t know about blogs — thereby proving whatever the fuck point you were trying to make — then bow out with total class when called on it.
Lambert’s being an idiot. His swipe at the “creative class” is utter bullshit. This argument about the gas tax is preposterous. And frankly, I don’t know what the fuck you’re trying to say. But serena brought up an example contra to yours and then you belittle her for it?
Awesome.
pedestrian said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:46
I wonder who the Burmese Barbara Bush is? I’ll bet they have one.
D.N. Nation said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:47
So he should hitch his wagon to an obviously flawed policy?
JK47 said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:49
Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.
I mean, can’t Obama be decent enough to let Hillary do her pandering in peace and quiet? It’s hard to pander effectively when some guy keeps pointing out what a pathetic joke it is.
D. Aristophanes said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:50
… their Iraq plans are pretty much the same? No?
Well, that’s my point. Central to it, even. The savings to be gained if we can wean ourselves from our Iraq habit so dwarf the (much disputed) promises being bandied about in this gas tax holiday sideshow that it is actively harmful to divert attention from the important work of getting the fuck out of that insatiable devourer of taxpayer money and metronomic off-shuffler of assorted mortal coils.
On the other hand, the appeal of what is essentially a non-existent and unredeemable gas coupon that expires before it appears in print is pretty goddam powerful. We’re all whores, as they say, all that’s left to do is haggle over price. Thirty bucks is a bit of a lowball offer for my tastes, but hey, it’s not exactly a labor market at the moment.
Marc said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:52
One can respect intellectual consistency. Folks like Lambert have descended into simple hack work; that’s what is so utterly revealing here. I listened to him when he complained about Obama “reinforcing GOP frames”, even though I roll my eyes when people say “frames” and “memes” and blah balh.
However, now it’s just the Jets and the Sharks. Clinton good, Obama bad. An intellectually honest person might say that it actually matters whether a given policy will actually work. What tools like him don’t realize is that they’re inflicting permanent damage on their own reputations. We’ve now had a good controlled experiment on the honesty, judgment, and integrity of lefty bloggers.
Taylor Marsh, Larry Johnson, and Lambert have simply revealed themselves to be utterly dishonest hacks. I can’t trust anything they say; they sling venom at targets that don’t warrant it. They shovel out justifications for the theme of the day, rather than providing any sort of sober analysis. My opinion of a lot of left-leaning commentators has dropped, and this is especially true on the Clinton side. I’m tired of having my intelligence repeatedly insulted. Real progressives don’t need to adopt scorched-earth tactics with allies.
Jennifer said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:55
If I wanted to be snarky, I’d just observe that Bush bought his votes with a promise of a piddling $300 tax cut, while Hillary is offering $30. Either Hillary is a cheap Bush or primary votes are worth 90% less than general election votes.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 18:59
Remember several years back, when gas was around a buck something a gallon, and quite a few Dems and progressives suggested increasing gas taxes, because it would mean that people would think about using gas less, which would save the environment while reducing our dependence on foreign oil, plus the govt. would get revenue to improve infrastructure & mass transit?
See, this is what pisses me off about the whole Lambert post: it’s another example of instant gratification… it’s a small short term gain in exchange for a long term disaster. It all boils down to wrecking the future and shitting on the heads of our children and grandchildren over some petty pissing contest as to whether Coke or Pepsi is better.
Lawnguylander said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:01
So making an issue out of a policy is arrogant?
Only if you assume Lunchpail Larry and Sally Housecoat will understand the policy issue at hand well enough to gauge whether they’re being pandered to. If you credit them with too much sophistication then you’re essentially accusing them of being pointy headed elitists. The more humble candidates and bloggers don’t stoop to credit their audiences that way. Take Taylor Marsh. Last week in a post titled Gas Tax Pandering, she thought Tom Friedman was right on the money with his criticisms of the gas tax proposals but she’s not going to get caught assuming regular folk can see things as clearly:
Then she complains about how Clinton’s long term energy plan is being ignored by all this hullabaloo. How her real message is being ignored. I shit you not.
DAS said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:04
I have a question regarding the gas tax holiday:
People who know more about economics than I do (recovering econ prof, Dr. Atrios, for instance) have demonstrated that the supply/demand curves for petrol are such that currently the oil companies “pay for” the gas tax, so if you’d take the tax away, it wouldn’t affect prices at the pump that much.
But supposing that they didn’t. Supposing the equilibrium price of gas would decrease if the tax were removed. How long would it take that to happen? Maybe I’m saying this ’cause I’m a biophysical chemistry type and not an econ type, but equilibria don’t necessarily happen instantaneously.
In this case, if the gas tax is removed, what’s to stop the oil companies from just raising the price of gas so the consumer sees nothing of the tax rebate? Competition you say? But how long will it take for someone to think “I can still have a bigger profit while lowering my prices” and start the downward spiral for prices? It might happen quickly, it might happen very slowly.
I’m sure real economists think about “kinetics”, but our Econ 101 level discourse rarely discusses kinetics (as opposed to equilibria) except when a GoOPer needs an excuse for why an economic problem isn’t actually his fault.
JK47 said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:04
The Gas Tax kerfuffle is to me a perfect illustration of why Obama is a superior candidate. Hillary will quite plainly do or say anything and stoop to any level to win. Obama wants to win the right way, or not at all.
willyjsimmons said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:06
That’s you point?
Getting out of Iraq would save us more money, and the gas tax is harming that effort?
Conflation? I mean, we aren’t getting out of Iraq until at least Jan 2009. Moot.
But if that’s your point.
owlbear1 said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:17
Hmm, 3.899 - .185 = 3.714
Sorry, but no matter how many times she claims it, I still ain’t calling it rain…
Balloon Juice said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:18
[...] and if we do not have the Gas Tax Holiday, the good folks at Corrente will be forced to survive on ramen noodles and ketchup packets. I think we will all agree that is a better choice than their current diet of paint chips and [...]
t4toby said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:23
This is moment where Hill’s camp Jumps the Shark.
Heyyyyyyy!
g said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:23
Um, skipping about 137 posts unread to say - Isn’t this all about a freaking theoretical tax rebate that ISN’T GOING TO HAPPEN THIS SUMMER ANYWAY? Seeing as how none of these guys happen to be president in 2008?
Snorghagen said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:23
I look upon it as an enormous sale in which millions of overstocked voters have been drastically marked down in price due to a soon-to-be-discontinued political system.
Vast Left said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:25
A non-Lambert Correntian responds:
http://www.correntewire.com/beware_of_sadness
Tom Hilton said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:27
And who would be completely missing from that characterization? Oh, yeah: African-Americans. Who, y’know, overwhelmingly support Obama.
In other words, the whole anti-’elitist’ attack on Obama is predicated on the assumption that African-Americans don’t count. What a bunch of disgusting racist fucks.
PeeJ said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:29
To atheist et. al.,
Yes, I’m sure Richard Florida coined “Creative Class” to help sell his book. But it’s not really a euphemism. As I recall, his “creative class” isn’t economically defined at all; the usual middle/lower class distinctions aren’t appropriate in this context. The creative class high is tech workers, artists, gay men (hah!) musicians, bohemians etc. He argues that general economic development is directly correlated with the concentration of “creatives.”
OTOH, Lambert and his crew do use the term as a euphemism. an epithet even. His obvious resentment is amusing to me but then I’m a high-tech, gay, creative type.
Anyway, what I really want to say is, how many Fuckbums does $30 get? Can a person live on Fuckbums alone?
stryx said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:30
USDA keeps track of this sort of stuff.
The most recent Cost of Food Report is for March 2008
Of course, they don’t consider ketchup and Necco wafers to be an actual diet, so YMMV.
Blue Buddha said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:30
Since they’re all Senators, they mentioned that supposedly they’ll put a bill before Congress about it in time for summer. As was noted earlier, though, that bill would probably have to be at least proposed and drafted before Memorial Day, which is only three weeks away.
t4toby said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:36
There is no effin’ way that Bush will sign a bill that will tax the oil companies. And if he does, it is only because the republicans would rather go up against Hillary than face Obammunism. (Nice one.)
White Male, Jew of Liberal Fascism said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:36
Speaking of tax rebates, somebody sent me this e-mail the other day. It’s pretty good.
**********************************
The U.S. government is sending each and every American taxpayer a $600 rebate.
If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, the money will go to China .
If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If we purchase a computer it will go to India .
If we purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala .
If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan .
If we purchase useless crap it will go to Taiwan .
And none of it will help the American economy.
The only way to keep that money here at home is to buy prostitutes, weed, beer, cigarettes, whiskey, and tattoos, since these are the only products still produced in the USA .
Thank you for your help and please support the USA .
Jay B. said,
May 6, 2008 at 19:37
Hey Vast Left,
Since you can’t read — or maybe you don’t understand irony, I don’t know and don’t care — the Marie Antionettish sentiments here are more along the line of this proposal is absurd. I don’t care who you are $30 over a summer is shit. It’s nothing and the laughable “it’ll keep you in RAMEN!!!11!” is more contemptuous and elitist than people pointing out how fucking stupid it is. That, literally, is the “let them eat cake” kind of attitude.
Clinton’s proposal is just as hollow as McCain’s. The difference being that her “taking on the oil barons” will only result in a gas price hike after the windfall profit tax is “enforced” — do you really not get that? Really?
It’s the silliest thing.
And the harvesting of dandelion leaves is done with more than a little tongue in cheek. Honest. People might do it, but it’s also a commentary on Lambert’s absurd