May
6

Ramengate Comes To A Boil




Posted at 9:47 by D. Aristophanes

The Democratic nomination process has become surreal. To the point where I really can’t tell if this post from Lambert of Corrente is a joke:

$30 from a gas tax holiday buys one person food for a month, but do “Creative class” [cough] Obama Fan Boys care? Guess…

As alert reader gqmartinez points out, $30 is a month’s worth of food, if you need to live on ramen noodles. And as alert reader BDBlue points out, it’s 15 weeks worth of school lunches for one of your kids.

3_servings.jpg
Above: Also 15 weeks of breakfasts and suppers, it would seem

Has it really come to this? Is the desperation of Lambert to defend Hillary’s Roman gas tax holiday as part of her increasingly scattershot campaign strategy really so acute? This let-them-eat-Ramen stuff is normally Chicagoboyz territory. If the great distinction between Clinton and Obama is the latter’s unwillingness to let us all have a few extra syrup sandwiches this summer … well, really. I’m at a loss for words. But then I am a bit parched, no thanks to Barack Obama and his elitist no-free-sip-of-Mountain-Dew-every-other-month policy. Fucking robber baron.

Look, forget about the usefulness or uselessness of the gas tax holiday for a moment. Put aside the fact that Obama, unlike Clinton and McCain, is clearly in cahoots with Chevron executives to hoard all the extra ketchup packets that could be feeding working families throughout the Rust Belt for decades to come. Is it not abundantly clear that both Democrats’ plans for phased troop withdrawals from Iraq will save taxpayers orders-of-magnitude more Ramen packets than thirty bucks’ worth? Important as it is to keep the noodle-wolf at bay, is this not the issue upon which we should be judging these candidates?

I’ve done that math, because after the dot com bubble burst, that was the situation I was faced with, and I was lucky, because my situation only lasted for months. Except I can top gqmartinez: My survival formula was dollar store spaghetti sauce. You can get two days out of a jar, and even with spaghetti, I could still get change back from my thirty! That was before things got really bad, and I went to the cans of generic pork and beans, 4 for a dollar. Plus, since by that time the gas and the electricity were off, I could heat the beans with the hotplate after stringing an extension cord out into the hall and plugging it into a socket I’d screwed into the light for the purpose. Too risky to boil water that way, I felt. What if I heard someone on the stairs and had to cut the power when the spaghetti was only half boiled?

southernfriednoodles.jpg
Above: Sunday dinner for a family of twelve

You were lucky to have stairs! I had to get up at 10′clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, regurgitate six fluid ounces of generic pork and beans for resale to the dollar store, strangle myself with the extension cord and salvage loose parts from the broken hot plate to boil in subsidized ethanol to prepare a weak cup of tea that Barack Obama would throw in my face each evening before ritually mutilating my genitals with a razor-sharp Kusha knife while ululating wildly to savage songs celebrating the enslavement of American heartlanders!

Now, to Stoller, $30 is what? Seven vente lattes and a croissant? I’d say. Though maybe he goes for the pumps of vanilla syrup instead of the croissant. I really wouldn’t know.

Good point, friend Ludd, but when is the next peasant revolt against our faggot coffee overlords taking place? I have my own pitchfork and I hate mechanical looms and espresso contraptions with unnatural gears and steam vents and such.

Jesus Christ.


Brad adds: Incidentally, I love how Lambert and Armando have taken to referring to all Obama supporters as “the creative class,” as if millions of voters around the country are all a bunch of fruity Yanni-loving wimps. Meanwhile, the pro-Hillary bloggers are apparently a bunch of rough blue-collar lawyers or something. Who knows! I’m getting bloody sick of people being idiots over this primary, though.

Gavin adds: Say, while the gas tax holiday is subsidizing Mr. Moneyclip and his V-12 Jaguar, can people who don’t own cars — e.g. poor families, specifically in urban locales — have a tax holiday on something too? I’m thinking perhaps income. Let’s get together on this, kthx?

Gavin also adds: I can’t help mentioning: On the topic of dollar-store spaghetti sauce and domestic economy, I’m simply dazzled by the extravagance. Sauce from a store! From a store!

What the practical man or woman does in a low-money situation is to snap into what they now call the Mediterranean Diet, by getting acquainted with the wild, edible plants in the area. The cost is zero cents per pound — or less than that, even, if you charge a few bucks for weeding people’s yards or gardens. Many are unaware, for instance, that the common dandelion, Taraxacum officinale, was brought to North America on purpose, as a food plant. At the local Whole Foods, they sell dandelion greens for $3.50 a pound. And yet, look outside and what do you see but dandelions every ding-dang place you look? Furthermore, if it’s packaged spaghetti that’s for dinner, Alliaria petiolata, or garlic mustard, makes a darn good pesto and is also available literally by the freaking hundred-pound sack — i.e., people will pay you to get rid of it. There are many dozens of other plants like this. And, you know, I’ve never claimed not to be a strange person.

Honestly and in real life, I admit to a stash of foraged sumac (Rhus typhina) in the kitchen, which I sometimes use for drinks and as a spice. The stuff costs $6.50 a pound at the local Middle Eastern market, but cost me about 650 cents less than that at a roadside near Concord. Let the diamond-studded plutocrats sip their boughten Kool-Aid.

307 Comments »

  1. Smut Clyde said,

    May 6, 2008 at 10:01

    Now if I were reduced to a diet of ramen noodles and pork-and-bean cans, at the same time as huffing so much petrol driving so much that the removal of the piddling US petrol tax would save me $30, then I would seriously think about huffing less petrol changing my life-style.
    Also, I would like to request that you abandon this new-fangled trope of “latte-sipping” when accusing someone of elititude. Indeed, eschew it. Why can’t they sip chardonnay in their spare moments, like they used to be? Preferably imported chardonnay — the NZ economy depends on it.

  2. plutocrat said,

    May 6, 2008 at 10:56

    [Solemn voice] $30 could buy one tenth of a share in Halliburton, my boy. Now if you hurry my bags up the stairs, I will have a shiny new penny for you.

  3. JR said,

    May 6, 2008 at 11:38

    Smut Clyde has it exactly correct. if you spend enough money on gasoline to save $30 in gas tax, you probably don’t need the help. I live in a smallish Indiana town and use about four gallons of gas a week. At 18 cents a gallon, that would mean about 64 cents of gas tax a week.

    And while my wife and I are college-educated, our “creative class” income’s food budget is tight enough that cup o’ noodles is still part of our lunch menu.

    So Hillary thinks she can buy my vote today for 64 cents a week. I am so stupid, apparently, that 64 cents and some beer drinkin’, shot slammin’, gun shootin’ jibberish ads are enough to win me over.

    For God’s sake, at least have the courage to pander in a less insulting way. Offer me a couple thou in a tax rebate scam or student loan repayments and we might have something to talk about.

  4. islmfaoscist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:10

    In lambert’s comments to his own post it seems he grasps momentarily that the $30 all the noise is about is a purely imaginary $30.
    Only momentarily, though.

    But what do the [Obama supporters] want to do? Nothing. They get all lekkered up and start drawing charts and get all, like Econ 101.

  5. jim said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:27

    The whole Ramengate angle conveniently leaves out the PRICE that the poor will later be made to cough up for this inspired act of economic psychosis, since the shortfall will surely have to be accounted for, to the last bloody nickel – as well as the cost of administering it. Oh how droll.
    Hmm … by this McLogic I calculate that Bush’s $600 “economic stimulus” backhander would buy TWENTY weeks of Ramen, so I guess he’s the least elitist of all! Just don’t tell his “Base” that: they loathe the poor, since their Calvinist vibe sees them as God’s little toerags. Being poor isn’t just bad taste, it’s proof that you’re EVIL.

    Even back when I was on Welfare & thus relatively destitute, I wasn’t stupid enough to rely on Ramen, since it’s a fastlane ticket to chronic malnutrition – macaroni is like sirloin compared to that gunk. As is brown rice, although it’s rapidly getting pricey.

    Heartily recommend Ye Olde Brown Beans & oatmeal (no, not as an exciting combo), both are dirt-cheap & jam-packed with nutrients. Cinnamon & marg (or butter if you’re bourgeois enough) with some brown sugar, & oatmeal becomes beautiful.

  6. Patkin said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:28

    Yeah, why can’t we get all Econ 401, when they just start making shit up.

  7. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:31

    For God’s sake, at least have the courage to pander in a less insulting way. Offer me a couple thou in a tax rebate scam or student loan repayments and we might have something to talk about.

    Yeah, that’s all I want sometimes too. Just a politician, who can be as corrupt as they want to be, but doesn’t talk to me as if I am a freakin’ idiot. Is that too much to ask?

    Yes, apparently that is too much to ask.

  8. Rob (Formerly) In Toronto said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:40

    As a public service …
    many of the things on this page (not a blogwhore) will give you more money in your pocket as a result of changing your driving habits than dropping the gas tax will … and they have the added bonus of not being temporary.

    Yeah, I know .. there I go expecting people to actually modify their behavior instead of having a politician pull a magic pony out of their ass… stupid me

  9. Rob (Formerly) In Toronto said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:42

    And yes .. that really is an ugly metaphor this early in the day .. sorry about that…

  10. Some Guy said,

    May 6, 2008 at 12:55

    What the the blue FUCK are you eating that $30 will buy you a months worth of it?! Jesus!

    Dollar store spaghetti sauce? 4 for a dollar pork and beans? Jesus fuck buns, why don’t you just live off free condiments you steal form restaurants? What of all that perfectly good used fry grease they just throw away EVERY NIGHT! What elitists!

    Shorter Lambert: You fat-cats didn’t finish your plankton; now it’s mine!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Minutes_Over_Tokyo

  11. TR said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:19

    Where did Lambert get the details of how much money we’d save? Was it from the text of the bill Hillary submitted to Congress?

    What’s that? There’s no such bill? Her proposal to suspend the gas tax in two weeks hasn’t even been drafted and submitted to Congress?

    Gosh, it almost sounds like she’s completely full of shit here. But I’ve been told that Obama is the one who’s all talk and no action. What gives?

  12. Mike Nilsen said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:36

    So this jerk wants to play “What can I buy my broke-ass self with $30″ game? Tell me, Lambert, how many gallons of gas a week did you buy during the ramen-scarfing period of your life? One gallon? Two? Zero? If you were that broke, wouldn’t a gas-guzzling commute be the first thing you’d rectify to save money? Priority number one?

    Now say that you have to drive, and you used five gallons a week of gas as a college student (or whatever). Assuming you get that entire 18.4 cents a gallon (which you won’t), that’s only $14.72 over a four-month summer max max max. Not even enough to keep your sorry ass in ramen. Adjust accordingly for your gas consumption and oil-industry rapaciousness.

    He’s also assuming that everyone who is broke enough so that an extra $30 would matter is stupid enough to think that Obama’s an elitist because he opposes a bogus windfall for Exxon.

    Not only is this argument philosophically puerile, but it’s mathematically lame.

  13. Arky H8r of VürdPress said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:39

    Let them eat Ramen!

    I hope these twats had absolutely nothing to say when Rudi “Il Douche” Guiliani didn’t know the price of milk.

    Is there a way we can force them to try the dollar a day diet for the entire summer? I bet by the time July rolled around they’d be too fucking weak crawl into the internons and leave this shit every where.

    Anyway, there’s only two of us (plus cats and one car). I know nothing about school lunches but I think they’re rather more than … .40 if my math is right.

    I’ll step back and let someone with kids ream these [gasp] ELITIST fuckwads.

  14. R. Porrofatto said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:39

    This is ridiculous. If you are so poor you have to eat spaghetti sauce* and beans for three months straight it’s unlikely that you would need or afford to drive the 3,000 or so miles it would take to see that $30 (assuming the .18/gallon savings actually materialized), and it would place you within a very small population of poor people who could afford A. a car, and B. $225 worth of gasoline every month.

    Besides, the gas tax is a consumption tax. So these folks, who are laughing their gilded asses off at just how hopelessly benighted the proles are to be arguing over such nickles and dimes, get a gas tax holiday, too, in addition to the myriad other tax holidays the rest of us are excluded from, like paying no more than a maximum 15% income tax and no Social Security or Medicare. Want to bring in revenue while decreasing gas consumption? Eliminate the SUV exemption for the gas-guzzler tax. Want to really help poor people? CAMPAIGN FOR A DOUBLING OF THE MINIMUM WAGE. And even that wouldn’t keep it abreast of inflation.

    *BTW, folks who have experienced more stringent and intractable non-dot-com-bubble poverty would attest that even dollar-store spaghetti sauce is more expensive than making your own from cans of tomato sauce.

  15. lobbey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:42

    Really, this needs to be said, if Hilary blows this for Obama, then the levels of hate for Nadar in 2000 is going to look like a mild tropical breeze by comparison.

    As a non Yank, it wants to make me scream. If John ‘you cunt prick’ McCain sneaks through for all of this, I propose that the rest of the world pays a visit for a good bit of whoop ass.

    Really, 8 years of this shit, and the Democrats couldn’t score from 3m out in a empty net, when the goal keeper has just been shot and the defence is smoking crack in the stands (add your own american footie/basketball/baseball analogy here).

  16. OneMadClown said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:43

    Brad adds: Incidentally, I love how Lambert and Armando have taken to referring to all Obama supporters as “the creative class,” as if millions of voters around the country are all a bunch of fruity Yanni-loving wimps.

    I dunno Brad, it does open the door to us to start referring to Lambert, Armando and their ilk as the ‘un-creative class’. After all, I imagine that a few Teh Sadly alums could whip up a far more creative and satisfying feast with their imaginary 30 Hillabucks than Ramen McFrankenbeans there.

    Even if not for teh funny, I’d lurk the Sadly, No! comment threads for Mikey recipes.

  17. Rob (Formerly) In Toronto said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:43

    Not only is this argument philosophically puerile, but it’s mathematically lame

    But remember that mathematics is one of those elite things that we are supposed to not be interested in…

    Please God, can you end this Primary season today… please .. please

  18. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 13:52

    Agree or disagree with Lambert on this particular subject (and I disagree), he’s not a typical Hillary hack. Armando and Taylor Marsh, et al., are attacking Obama from the right. Marsh is an admitted “Reagan Democrat.” Armando’s long been a wingnut-sympathizing jackass; Armando’s idea of a “big tent” means diluting the message until it will appeal to wingnuts, and include them as supporters. Lambert, OTOH, feels Obama is too conservative (and he’s not fundamentally wrong on that); Lambert’s attacks are meant to be leftwing.

    I personally think it’s silly to attack one triangulator in the service of aiding another, but I can recognize that Lambert means well.

  19. OneMadClown said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:01

    In all seriousness…do y’all think its this race itself that’s driven some of our friends completely out of their fucking minds, or was it merely the device that revealed their deeply buried inner asshole? (Armando excluded, he was always a douche.) Some folks that I used to really enjoy reading or talking to have said some things that can’t be described outside of bugfuck crazy.

    I just can’t wrap my head around the levels of pure, visceral madness that people are managing to whip up in service to their preferred candidate (usually Hillary). If either of them looked like a real magic sparkle pony revolutionary leader ready to usher in a new age of world peace and environmental change and happiness and really good free weed, then maybe I could grasp the fanatical devotion a little better. But they ain’t. Obama was my initial preference, and said preference has gotten stronger in light of a lot of the shit that the Clinton camp has pulled thus far, but I’m not a google-eyed loony handing out Obama buttons and flowers at the airport.

    I’m so freaking depressed.

  20. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:06

    All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”

  21. R. Porrofatto said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:08

    BTW, the comments over there (and so many places these days) are a GOP operative’s wet dream. I’m no conspiranoid, but the non-stop undermining of Obama and Clinton (with Gooper talking-points no less) on putative liberal sites is really getting to look like the RNC trained a bunch of home-schooled Patrick Henry grads to pretend to be Democrats in blog comments. Depressing.

  22. Christopher said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:10

    I also can’t quite tell if this is parody or not. If it is, it’s marvelous, and if it isn’t:

    Here’s something nobody has mentioned: If you don’t eat, you die.

    Now, I’m sleepy enough that I might be missing something, but it seems to me that if you’re alive, you’re already finding a way to get your minimum food requirements.

    Which means, really, that you’re going to spend your $30 on something other then food, or maybe double your food budget and go for something luxurious, like a can of Spam.

    I’m not totally ignorant of people for whom an extra $30 is a real windfall, but those folks are in a much more fucked up situation then less then a hundred bucks over the summer will solve.

    This is actually a weird inverse version of those Wall Street Journal editorials claiming nobody who owns an iPod could be poor; both of them think that a it only takes one, maybe two Benjamins to completely pull yourself out of poverty and enter the middle class.

  23. owlbear1 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:10

    That’s what happens when you let Republicans into the party. They start throwing shit and demand everyone thank them for the air freshener.

  24. Smut Clyde said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:15

    All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
    That’s what they told Kennedy, just before the “Ich bin ein Berliner” speech.

  25. His Grace said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:22

    Let’s assume for a moment that a working family can save $30 on gas via Hillary’s plan. Even if that’s so, gas prices (due to increased summer demand) are more than likely to go up more than 18 cents, even if the gas companies were benevolent. Thus the family would be saving in the sense that they wouldn’t be paying $30 extra in gas money. Yes it helps for someone living paycheck to paycheck, any extra money for a person in such circumstances is useful. But it wouldn’t revitalize their budget by any means.

    Of course, a person who drives a hummer might see a bit more “savings” but even so it wouldn’t substantially reduce the cost of filling up. All the tax holiday would do is make people think that they might be saving some money. Given the high rates of American debt, encouraging such thinking would not bode well for an economic recovery.

  26. El Cid said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:22

    By the way, why are all the pro-gas tax holiday Democrat suckers fantasizing that alongside the “gas tax holiday” the windfall profits tax would ACTUALLY PASS on the oil companies?

    Yeah, about that — with a barely non-Republican Senate and Bush Jr. holding the veto pen, exactly how again is HRC proposing to get the ‘excess profits tax’ through to the Earth 1 universe and thus not simply rob the highway and infrastructure funds of every bit of that ‘holiday’???

  27. Flying Spaghetti Monster™³²®© said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:23

    Ramen.

  28. Smut Clyde said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:24

    All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
    Serves me right for eating that whole big bag of dicks.

  29. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:26

    There is a kernel of truth in Lambert’s “creative class” swipe. Only thing is, the time to say something about it was several months ago. But not now — unless you can do it like Matt Taibbi, which is to say that you can do it with accuracy and subtlety by applying it to both candidates and the establishment they represent. Lambert isn’t.

    Both candidates are corporate whores not likely to do much for class issues or to end the Iraq War. Even so, they are better than the Republican alternative. Lambert should accept this and can it until the Dem candidate wins in November. Then he can crank it back up and I’ll be right there with him, regardless of the winner. Until then, though, he should STFU.

  30. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:46

    Why doesn’t Hillary make gas free?

  31. LittlePig said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:50

    I used to enjoy stopping by Corrente, but I’m having to avoid them until the election because the normally-sane Lambert has gone a bit off the deep end.

    And my fellow Arkansan HTML correctly points out that both candidates are corporate whores – there are policy points Lambert could make that would help Hillary without throwing Barack under the bus. This idiotic gas tax proposal is not one of them (“Let’s stick it to the oil companies by cutting back on our road money! Whoo-hoo!”) – the best that Lambert could do is completely ignore it. “‘Almost as Republican as John McCain’ is not a great selling point.

    And ‘Econ 101′ is surely a jab at Atrios, who dares to point out the economic fallacy of it all. The Baby Blue Satan will not be pleased.

  32. Rich said,

    May 6, 2008 at 14:52

    school is out in the summer anyway. i guess we can could but the $30 in the bank for next fall.

  33. John Cole said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:03

    I sometimes heat roadkill on my engine block, so yeah, not only will that imaginary 30 bucks I save allow me to buy more gas to get to work to feed my family, but literally, it is feeding my family.

    Go Lambert! Hero to the working man.

    Fucking idiot.

  34. John Chimpo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:06

    There is a kernel of truth in Lambert’s “creative class” swipe. Only thing is, the time to say something about it was several months ago. But not now — unless you can do it like Matt Taibbi, which is to say that you can do it with accuracy and subtlety by applying it to both candidates and the establishment they represent. Lambert isn’t.

    Precisely, Mr. Mencken. It’s pretty galling to see a bunch of people who are clearly in Florida’s creative class using one of the calling cards of said demographic to clutch their pearls about…the creative class.

    I don’t think Clinton and Obama are that different, either. One is old-style DLC politics (Clinton) and the other is DLC 2.0 (Obama). Given those two choices, I prefer Obama because I might get something closer to my policy preferences out of him; I know I won’t get that with Clinton except on preserving a woman’s rights over her body.

    Before people like Larry Johnson and SusanUnPC and Armando turned into such swill factories I was honestly torn between Clinton and Obama. But I’ll take a bunch of fanboys and fangirls over a bunch of tantrum-throwing dirt merchants who don’t give a fuck about the party any day of the week.

    Now I’m going to go get my morning tall latte with extra foam and an double shot of “fuck you”. Dont’ get so worked up reminiscing about your pork and bean days that you spill your macchiatos on your keyboards, Clinton hacks.

  35. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:15

    There is a kernel of truth in Lambert’s “creative class” swipe.

    So, wait, you think there is actually a real thing called the “creative class”? I always figured it was some horseshit made up to sell a book.

    Do you perhaps mean “the middle class”? i.e. Lambert is a member of the middle class, and he does not know enough about he working class?

  36. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:15

    How much brie and chablis can I buy with $30?

    What about fancy ham? How does that convert to fancy ham?

  37. spencer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:18

    If John ‘you cunt prick’ McCain sneaks through for all of this, I propose that the rest of the world pays a visit for a good bit of whoop ass.

    Please do. You’ll be greeted with flowers and chocolates.

    At least, that’s how I’d greet you. Can’t speak for my in-laws, though.

  38. Hillajohn McClainton said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:20

    Petrol et Circenses!

  39. Brad R. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:20

    HTML – well yes, a lot of Obama supporters are a bunch of yuppies who cringe at the thought of genuine economic populism. And of course, the same is true of Clinton supporters. I hope I didn’t give the impression that I thought Obama supporters were the de facto good guys or anything.

  40. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:21

    I just think that, if we mean to talk about the middle class vs. the working class, we should use those terms, rather than a euphamism like “The Creative Class”.

  41. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:26

    HTML – well yes, a lot of Obama supporters are a bunch of yuppies who cringe at the thought of genuine economic populism. And of course, the same is true of Clinton supporters.

    Right. At this point, the election is:

    Yuppie douchebags vs. The congenitally insane

    I’m personally hoping that the yuppie douchebags win.

  42. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:28

    No, course not, Brad. I’m just making the general point that not all Obama-bashers are the same.

  43. Jennifer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:28

    This is why I had to stop going around corrente a couple of months back. Hopefully once this damned primary is over, sanity will return.

  44. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:30

    Armando eats shit.

    But he could definitely get work posing in ads for anger management workshops.

  45. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:31

    atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:21

    I just think that, if we mean to talk about the middle class vs. the working class, we should use those terms, rather than a euphamism like “The Creative Class”.

    Euphemisms and political correctness are the Josef Goebbels of Liberal Fascism.

  46. Brad R. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:32

    HTML – I see what you’re saying about Lambert attacking Obama from the left, HOWEVER it’s being done through the prism of wingnut faux-populist economics. It’s akin to supporting repealing the inheritance tax to save family farms.

  47. Jennifer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:34

    The whole Ramengate angle conveniently leaves out the PRICE that the poor will later be made to cough up for this inspired act of economic psychosis, since the shortfall will surely have to be accounted for, to the last bloody nickel – as well as the cost of administering it.

    As I noted elsewhere on this topic, people who rely on public transportation won’t get anything from this – in most areas of the country, they are the working poor. And since public transport gets a lot of its funding from highway money…those people can maybe look forward to a “fare increase holiday”.

  48. spencer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:36

    I sometimes heat roadkill on my engine block

    Only “sometimes?”

    You fucking elitist.

  49. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:39

    Euphemisms and political correctness are the Josef Goebbels of Liberal Fascism.

    See, there you go.

    Don’t know why “The Creative Class” chaps my hide so much. Maybe it’s because it’s such utter, insulting, stuck-up horseshit.

  50. El Cid said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:39

    Hey, don’t worry — when those potholes from lack of upkeep destroy some blue collar workin’ class schlump’s front suspension and costs $750 to repair, I’m sure Hillary will suddenly produce a “car repair holiday”.

    At least until the bridges fall down.

    Oh, I forgot — she promises that she’ll get the Lieberman-topped Senate to pass a windfall / excess profits tax on the oil companies over solid Republican / conservative Democratic opposition and over a Bush Jr. veto.

    Sure. Okay. Whatever.

  51. Brad R. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:42

    Don’t know why “The Creative Class” chaps my hide so much.

    I do. It’s because the people using it as an insult work as lawyers (Armando) or professional talk show hosts (Marsh). It’s hilariously fraudulent.

  52. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:43

    Yeah, the math on this is just stupid. Ok, at 18.5c/gal., $30/mo. works out to burning ~162 gal/mo… let’s lowball that to 160/mo. This works out to 40 gal/wk., and at $3.50/gal. (if you’re lucky), this works out to $140/wk.

    There are so many things wrong with this:

    – 40 gal/wk. is a hella lot of gas to be wasting. This is pretty much four fillups a week with a standard car. Unless you commute from East Bumfuck Nowhere and/or drive a gas guzzling SUV, you’re not likely to burn that much gas.

    – If you can spend $140/wk. on gas, then it’s not likely that you live off of ketchup packets and mint candy.

    – Giving a tax break on gas will make it less likely that you’re going to change driving habits/buy a more efficient car/carpool/use mass transit. Oh well, so much for saving the environment and buying more time before peak oil.

  53. spencer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:44

    I do. It’s because the people using it as an insult work as lawyers (Armando) or professional talk show hosts (Marsh). It’s hilariously fraudulent.

    I had a much longer explanation ready to go, but this gets to the heart of it with ruthless efficiency. So never mind.

  54. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:46

    Hey this keeps getting better. Now corrente is saying that Obama is SO full of shit trying to tell us that the tax savings won’t be passed on to the consumer – in fact, consumers may get UP TO 60%!!!

    Those bastards just slashed my Ramen budget to $18.

  55. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:46

    I just realized what a fine cigar I could get with $30.

    Or, $30 would make 3 nice cigar-lighters.

  56. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:48

    ketchup packets and mint candy

    Now, a month’s worth of that sounds tasty!

  57. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:50

    if we mean to talk about the middle class vs. the working class, we should use those terms, rather than a euphamism like “The Creative Class”.

    But I think it’s a eusefull euphemism. The creative class is a very special part of the (upper) middle class: the mouthpiece.

    I keep thinking of a Max Blumenthal vid where Max interviews these two elderly female black activists. He asks them if they read blogs; they look at him like he’s a freak, politely convey to him that they don’t know what the fuck he’s talking about. My mind always goes back to them when I read some yuppie douchebag, usually an Obama supporter, go on and on about how Facebook (or whatever) is changing the way people connect with politics.

    Students excluded, we’re all in the same boat here: that we write on the internet basically proves that we’re not part of the working class. And though some of us may be poor or just occasionally suffer lean periods, it’s not enough to overcome the bias inherent in the structure. The symbolism-over-substance nature of the two Dem candidates, especially in this context, was simply inevitable given the structure of the system and the class of the most vocal supporters.

  58. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:52

    ZOMG N*GG*R IS GONNA PUT A BASKETBALL COURT IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

  59. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 15:56

    I do. It’s because the people using it as an insult work as lawyers (Armando) or professional talk show hosts (Marsh). It’s hilariously fraudulent.

    True. But just as paranoids can have real enemies, hypocrites can have real points (even if they have no personal right to make said points).

  60. lobbey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:00

    Please do. You’ll be greeted with flowers and chocolates. At least, that’s how I’d greet you. Can’t speak for my in-laws, though.

    Obviously I was speaking rhetorically, us dope smoking European hippies couldn’t rouse ourselves for such a mission!! However, the point still stands, how on earth could old chops McCain even have a chance in this cycle. I embrace someone’s comments above, you have to wonder if there are a number of GoP operatives floating around a number of lefty blogs writing crap like this.

    One thing you have to admire the repubs, though, the message comes down from on high, and eveyone gets on message, even though 70% of them think McCain is an asshole. The dems are like a god-damn council meeting.

  61. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:06

    Students excluded, we’re all in the same boat here: that we write on the internet basically proves that we’re not part of the working class. And though some of us may be poor or just occasionally suffer lean periods, it’s not enough to overcome the bias inherent in the structure. The symbolism-over-substance nature of the two Dem candidates, especially in this context, was simply inevitable given the structure of the system and the class of the most vocal supporters.

    Absolutely. I’m glad you pointed that out, because it’s a point that I’ve made to people who have not wanted to hear it. Yes, we denizens of the blogosphere need to be occasionally reminded that we really are a skewed sample, and that we’re almost all middle class or higher. And yes, it definitely does warp our politics if we’re not careful to note its effects.

    I remember once I said to some people, “The internet is mostly used by the middle and upper classes and it doesn’t represent the entire society that well”. They didn’t want to hear it. “Oh, but they can just go to the library, etc.”

    It’s amazing what some people will tell themselves.

  62. El Cid said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:08

    If you want to talk about the American class system, and you want to start talking about those sectors which are powerful, influential, elite, elitist, and are not the capitalist or inherited wealth upper classes, you would not be looking at various well-educated “creative” types.

    There are indeed servants and spokespersons for power.

    They run your major news production services — you know, the ones which tell you each and every time that we so totally have to go to war this one time.

    They are the ones farmed out by the “think tanks” which arose to such prominence in the 1970s because the business classes got tired of the scholarly revolt of the 1960s and 1970s in which the formerly docile academics now had a few who got tired of the business class and the war class’ crap.

    So if you want to start taking on the elitist sub-classes who sneer at the average working American and whose position in the economy is parasitic, fine by me — but what you’re going to capture is the heads of major ideological institutions, not community artists meeting at their favorite hipster coffee shop.

    Oh, but I forget — this is America, so when we talk about class divisions etc., we always have to be impressionistic about it, and ignore any actual possibility of studying the class systems which pretty damn consistently shape power, law, regulation, and the economy in this country.

  63. Brad R. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:12

    I remember once I said to some people, “The internet is mostly used by the middle and upper classes and it doesn’t represent the entire society that well”. They didn’t want to hear it.

    Yep. And that’s why most of the “Netroots” concept is a joke – yes, it’s good for raising money for political campaigns, but it isn’t the same as organizing workers to form a local union. Don’t get me wrong, I think raising money for campaigns is valuable, if for no other reason to keep wingnuts away from the levers of power, but it can’t be the be-all, end-all.

  64. Thomas Sowell said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:12

    The fact is, how can Obama not repeal the gas tax while still being unable to bowl?

    It’s amazing how liberals, who are the people most inclined to think they are right about everything, are sometimes wrong about some things.

    Obama has been living a lie, because he doesn’t believe in not not repudiating vanity.

    You can find these “random thoughts” and more in my column at TownHall! I’m so smart.

  65. D.N. Nation said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:16

    I remember once I said to some people, “The internet is mostly used by the middle and upper classes and it doesn’t represent the entire society that well”. They didn’t want to hear it.

    On May 6, 2008, the worldwide death rate is still holding steady at 100%.

  66. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:17

    Oh, I FORGOT he couldn’t bowl, which just shows what an elitist I am. Maybe he’ll replace the White House bowling alley with his basketball court – using OUR gas tax money!
    That is just what the terrorists would want.

  67. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:18

    On May 6, 2008, the worldwide death rate is still holding steady at 100%.

    Yup. And the fooling-ourselves rate isn’t far behind.

  68. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:19

    El Cid said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:08

    They run your major news production services — you know, the ones which tell you each and every time that we so totally have to go to war this one time.

    Hey baby, I’m sorry about last weekend. Things will be different this time. Look, I even got you flowers, babe. I ain’t gonna hurt you again.

  69. Lawnguylander said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:19

    Gavin adds: Say, while the gas tax holiday is subsidizing Mr. Moneyclip and his V-12 Jaguar, can people who don’t own cars — e.g. poor people, specifically urban — have a tax holiday on something too? I’m thinking clothing or perhaps income. Let’s get together on this, kthx?

    WTF are you talking about? Don’t you know this primary is all about the Plain (White) People of America? Specifically the ones over 30. Nobody else matters.

    You know what would be the upside to Clinton winning? We’d have several months of her and McCain in competition to see who could be more bellicose towards Iran which would create a convenient atmosphere for those who want to attack them between now and November. Hopefully Clinton doesn’t use the word obliterate over and over again when talking about Iran because that would get old. I’d like to hear her threaten to turn Iran into glass. And that namby pamby nonsense about whether it was a good idea to vote to give Bush the authorization to destroy Iraq would be off the table completely and replaced by talk of the precious gift of USA Heartland Freedom we airmailed to those ungrateful Iraqis. I’d like to see McCain try to talk straighter than Clinton did here:

    “We have given them the gift of freedom, the greatest gift you can give someone. Now it is really up to them to determine whether they will take that gift.”

    Stupid, freedom hating Iraqis.

  70. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:20

    Mencken – it may be a useful euphemism, but it’s also being used in this context as yet another cudgel in the cyncial division of the country into the flyover base people and the coastal snobs. That it generally manifests as internal finger-wagging sessions by the coastal snobs — only natural, as national media-types mostly reside here — demonstrates how dishonest the phenomenon is. You have the wealthy and technologically dialed-in playing anthropologist-from-afar in describing the ticking heart of Peoria and pandering clumsily to its imagined opinion-makers, while simultaneously ignoring or even denigrating the politics of millions in their own urban neighborhoods.

    It’s a double fucking, to put it bluntly. It’s a Matthews corridor framing of politics in this country and it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so goddamn pervasive.

  71. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:22

    Yes, we denizens of the blogosphere need to be occasionally reminded that we really are a skewed sample, and that we’re almost all middle class or higher. And yes, it definitely does warp our politics if we’re not careful to note its effects.

    Seriously, someone should write a book on this. But then, that’s the paradox: no one who could write it is qualified, while anyone who could write it would never be able/allowed to do so.

    The other paradox is more tragic: for the “creative class” race, gender and sexual-orientation issues are held at a premium over class concerns. But it is only by solving the class issue that race, gender and sexual-orientation problems can ever be truly fixed. (Make the poor less poor and most meaningful bigotries will “organically” wither away.)

  72. Dan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:22

    She promises statehood for Guam, but the rest of us get $30? I want statehood! Statehood for everybody!

  73. serena kitt said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:22

    Mencken,
    Really, let’s not make our points by comparing elderly black women to bloggers. Even if it’s in a video on the internet, and therefore true. I’m black, i use the internet, my grandmother’s black, she uses the internet. She sends me text messages, and she doesn’t look at me like a freak. I mean, those women are what, Al Sharpton’s generation? Julian Bond’s age? Barack Obama’s parents’ age? The age of my African-American studies professors who put the readings online and whatnot? We’re not all sharecroppin’ and sitting-in while you nice boys do all the Change.

  74. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:22

    “We have given them the gift of freedom, the greatest gift you can give someone. Now it is really up to them to determine whether they will take that gift.”

    No that was her discussing race relations.

  75. D.N. Nation said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:23

    Heh indoozle. From Senor Sowell’s latest droppings:

    Both men, in their different ways, have for decades been promoting the far left vision of victimization and grievances– Wright from his pulpit and Obama as a community organizer for the radical group ACORN, as a collaborator with former Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers

    A collaborator? Wow. Nice libelous bullshit, Tom.

  76. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:25

    I keep thinking of a Max Blumenthal vid where Max interviews these two elderly female black activists. He asks them if they read blogs; they look at him like he’s a freak, politely convey to him that they don’t know what the fuck he’s talking about

    Yeah, honestly, I have gotten the same response when I have asked that question at my (mostly white) office.

  77. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:28

    Oh, but I forget — this is America, so when we talk about class divisions etc., we always have to be impressionistic about it, and ignore any actual possibility of studying the class systems which pretty damn consistently shape power, law, regulation, and the economy in this country.

    Well, there’s being impressionistic and then there’s being pseudo-empirical about it.

    So if you want to start taking on the elitist sub-classes who sneer at the average working American and whose position in the economy is parasitic, fine by me — but what you’re going to capture is the heads of major ideological institutions, not community artists meeting at their favorite hipster coffee shop.

    All of the former are guilty, yes. But more than a few of the latter are guilty, too, albeit in a more subtle way.

  78. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:29

    We’re not all sharecroppin’ and sitting-in while you nice boys do all the Change.

    Serena, I don’t think that’s what he was saying. I don’t think he was saying that blacks don’t use the internet. Obviously, that’s false. I think he was simply pointing out that there are extremely politically significant sectors of the population that do not tend to use the internet, and whose concerns, therefore, are not well-represented in the online world. In other words, he was pointing out that while our blogtopia is cool, it has some gaping holes. And we ignore these holes at our peril.

  79. HTML Mencken said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:31

    The age of my African-American studies professors [professional - i.e. not poor] who put the readings online and whatnot? We’re not all sharecroppin’ and sitting-in while you nice boys do all the Change.

    And here we go…

    See y’all in the funny pages; I’m out to crack my whip on some sharecroppers.

  80. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:35

    All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”
    Serves me right for eating that whole big bag of dicks.

    Smut Clyde,

    All I’m gonna say is that you wrote it and not me!

  81. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:35

    I coulda sworn I closed that tag! Oh well, still recovering I guess…

  82. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:48

    But then, that’s the paradox: no one who could write it is qualified, while anyone who could write it would never be able/allowed to do so.

    There might be a couple of people who could do it justice. Perhaps.

  83. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:49

    Another example.

  84. Gus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 16:51

    I really think most people see through this pandering, but I always come back to Mencken: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.” People just might be fucking stupid enough to fall for it.

  85. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:02

    I want statehood! Statehood for everybody!

    Ummm, Dan? How are you gonna pay your State Troopers? Not to mention that governance will be difficult. I mean, you’re gonna have to build a State Capitol and everything!

  86. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:07

    I don’t know Gus – Remember when Jose Maria Aznar tried to win the 2004 election by pinning the Madrid train bombings on Basqe seperatists? That was only three days before the vote and the people still figured out that it might have something to do with the Iraq War and rallied behind Zapatero (who had been running behind) instead. Within six months Spain was out of Iraq and within a year gay marriage was legal

    Assuming that Americans are as smart as the Spaniards, an October strike on Iran could backfire in a big way. And you know what they say about assuming!

  87. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:13

    And you know what they say about assuming!

    I’ve tried to cultivate an attitude of detatchment. If I didn’t, I think I might be harder to live with.

  88. atheist said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:17

    There might be a couple of people who could do it justice.

    Or, uh, you, HTML?

  89. Arky H8r of VurdPress said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:26

    As I noted elsewhere on this topic, people who rely on public transportation won’t get anything from this – in most areas of the country, they are the working poor. And since public transport gets a lot of its funding from highway money…those people can maybe look forward to a “fare increase holiday”.

    Another thing to consider: The price of everything else went up in response to the high price of fuel. I don’t expect food producers to lower their prices because gas is 18 cents cheaper.

    Come to think of it, would this holiday in gasbodia apply to diesel or will truckers still get hosed?

    Either way you’re right. But in a way I wish McHillary would push this through (or at least produce a draft bill) but that isn’t going to happen because allowing people to see and experience the results of this brilliant plan would allow people to see the candidates are full of shit, and that’s what pisses me off the most. Neither of them has the least intention of pushing such a bill.

  90. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:31

    pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:07

    I don’t know Gus – Remember when Jose Maria Aznar tried to win the 2004 election by pinning the Madrid train bombings on Basqe seperatists? That was only three days before the vote and the people still figured out that it might have something to do with the Iraq War and rallied behind Zapatero (who had been running behind) instead. Within six months Spain was out of Iraq and within a year gay marriage was legal

    Actually, everyone in Spain thought it was Basque separatists, including Zapatero (why not? it’s not unusual for ETA to attack). However, the Spaniards assumed Anzar was witholding information when the government announced that they found evidence it was Islamic, not Basque terrorists. If Anzar and his party really was trying to pin it on the Basques, something tells me that the government would’ve tried to withhold that information a little longer (ie: after the election), instead of a couple days after the bombing.

  91. dday said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:33

    Who exactly pays the medical bills for the guy who eats nothing but Ramen for a month?

  92. stryx said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:50

    Am I the only one who still associates $30 with a very specific unit of measurement? Back in the olden days, a full oz. sack cost that much. Kids these days pay that much for one sticky bud.

    Now if anyone wanted to ensure getting elected with a massive landslide mandate, propose suspending the laws regarding the ganja. And maybe propose a free sack for everyone. Talk about your map changing election.

  93. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:54

    This is now.

    President Bush joined a chorus of international leaders urging Myanmar’s reclusive military government to allow the flow of aid after a disastrous weekend cyclone killed tens of thousands of people.
    “Let the United States come and help you,” Bush exhorted the junta on Tuesday.

    That was then.

    [After Hurricane Katrina] the U.S. government was turning down many allies’ offers of manpower, supplies and expertise worth untold millions of dollars. Eventually the United States also would fail to collect most of the unprecedented outpouring of international cash assistance for Katrina’s victims.

    Allies offered $854 million in cash and in oil that was to be sold for cash. But only $40 million has been used so far for disaster victims or reconstruction, according to U.S. officials and contractors. Most of the aid went uncollected, including $400 million worth of oil. Some offers were withdrawn or redirected to private groups such as the Red Cross. The rest has been delayed by red tape and bureaucratic limits on how it can be spent.

    In addition, valuable supplies and services — such as cellphone systems, medicine and cruise ships — were delayed or declined because the government could not handle them. In some cases, supplies were wasted.

    This is now

    First lady Laura Bush condemned the military government in Myanmar on Monday for its “inept” response to a deadly weekend cyclone, marking an unusual foray by the president’s spouse into a high-profile foreign-policy crisis.

    At a White House news conference, Laura Bush said the military junta in Myanmar is preventing the United States and other nations from providing help — and also implied that the country’s rulers purposely declined to warn people of the impending danger.

    That was then.

    Newly released video footage taken just hours before Hurricane Katrina battered the Gulf Coast shows that federal officials delivered stark warnings to President Bush and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff that the storm could lead to massive loss of life. “We are fully prepared,” Bush responded.

    The edited video, released by Associated Press, shows Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center in Miami, briefing state and federal officials — including Chertoff and Michael D. Brown, then director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency — on Aug. 28. Bush was at his Texas ranch and participated by videophone. Mayfield tells the officials he wants “to make it absolutely clear to everyone that there is potential for large loss of life — in the coastal areas from the storm surge,” and emphasizes that there is a “very, very grave concern” about the ability of the levees that separated Lake Pontchartrain from New Orleans to stand up against the storm.

    On Sept. 1, Bush said on ABC’s “Good Morning America”: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.”

  94. Tom Jones said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:54

    It’s not unusual for ETA to attack

    Damn! That’s the line I was searching for when I wrote that song…

  95. Ginger Yellow said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:55

    “What about fancy ham? How does that convert to fancy ham?”

    Depends. Are we talking “Delicious for Chanukah” ham or just ordinary fancy ham?

  96. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:55

    Sorry, that was long and way off topic, I just had to vent.

  97. Black NASCAR Star said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:57

    Creative class = Apple computer users

    Real Americans use Commodore VIC 20s.

  98. OneMan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:59

    “He’s also assuming that everyone who is broke enough so that an extra $30 would matter is stupid enough to think that Obama’s an elitist because he opposes a bogus windfall for Exxon.”

    Can’t find a cite right now but apparently, he’s right. I read in Newsweek (I’m pretty sure…the article, wherever it was, cited poll results) that Obama’s opposition to the gas tax holiday (gag) has hurt him and further cemented his “elitist” label among the stupid and poor.

    Fuck. I’m starting to think that once again we’re going to get the leaders we deserve.

  99. Mike Nilsen said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:59

    If I bowl, but I really suck at it, am I an elitist?

    If I put reduced-fat cheese on my cheesesteak, does that make me an elitist?

    If I work across the street from Brooks Brothers, am I at risk for Aggravated Elitism?

    I getting so worried that someone will think I’m an elitist that I can barely walk into Fourbucks to order a triple half-caff soy fuckaccino any more.

  100. Black NASCAR Star said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:01

    $30 = dime bag w/moderate stem & seed content.

  101. Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:02

    Who exactly pays the medical bills for the guy who eats nothing but Ramen for a month?

    Under Clinton’s plan, you do. OR ELSE.

  102. DAS said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:04

    At the local Whole Foods, they sell dandelion greens for $3.50 a pound. And yet, look outside and what do you see but dandelions every ding-dang place you look?

    Unlike the case with arugula, charging the $$$ for dandelions is fair enough. Have you ever actually tried to grow dandelions on purpose? They may spring up like weeds where you don’t want them, but they are cussed creatures that will never grow in any garden plot if they figure you intend to grow them there.

  103. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:05

    $30 is, by definition, three dime bags.

    In Boston that will buy you about 1/16th

  104. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:06

    not that I would know from personal experience…

  105. Black NASCAR Star said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:06

    $30 = 80 pounds of potatoes.

    Is Lambert suggesting working class people are stupid?

  106. p_lukasiak said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:07

    If the great distinction between Clinton and Obama is the latter’s unwillingness to let us all have a few extra syrup sandwiches this summer … well, really. I’m at a loss for words.

    that distinction is being drawn by Obama supporters, you stupid wankjob. Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.

    There are people who are really getting hit hard by the increase in gas prices, and any little bit would help. Get off your high horse, and get a freaking clue — Obama’s arrogance and stupidity is going to mean at least four years of McCain, because he’s telling working class americans to eat Ramen noodles.

  107. serena kitt said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:09

    Really, cracking the whip?
    Turn down the snark. If you can’t explain your “race is class” argument without cracking wise in ways that might actually offend people, do you really think you can have an interracial dialogue about race and class?

  108. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:11

    Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.

    So making an issue out of a policy is arrogant?

  109. Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:12

    I think “elitist” can be added to the list of words that no longer have any actual meaning.

  110. Jennifer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:18

    I’m not even going to mention what could be used as a source of protein in those noodles, but some of you, like pedestrian, might be able to guess why I won’t….

  111. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:19

    Is it not abundantly clear that both Democrats’ plans for phased troop withdrawals from Iraq will save taxpayers orders-of-magnitude more Ramen packets than thirty bucks’ worth? Important as it is to keep the noodle-wolf at bay, is this not the issue upon which we should be judging these candidates?

    Ummmm…

    nice pivot.

    But ummmmm….

    their Iraq plans are pretty much the same? No?

  112. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:21

    Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:12

    I think “elitist” can be added to the list of words that no longer have any actual meaning.

    I think any word ending in “ist” or “ism” makes up an entire lexicon of words that no longer have any actual meaning… including “list”, “fist”, “schism”, “prism”… well okay, maybe those don’t count.

  113. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:25

    Black NASCAR Star said,

    May 6, 2008 at 17:57

    Creative class = Apple computer users

    Real Americans use Commodore VIC 20s.

    But what if it’s an Apple I?

  114. Jeff said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:26

    I’m so glad that I read all the comments to this post. Before, when I had only read the Correntewire stuff, I was worried that poverty was a problem for some people in America.

    Thank you all for setting me straight.

  115. fahey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:28

    I don’t think he is attacking from the left he’s attacking from any direction possible, damn the consequences or veracity of his argument.

  116. Mwangangi said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:29

    “Real Americans use Commodore VIC 20s.”

    REALER Americans use Texas Instruments TI 99-4/As.

  117. Nylund said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:34

    Since the weather is finally nice, I’ve traded in my monthly mass-transit pass for my bicycle. If I do this all summer, I will save so much, I will never have to worry about going hungry again for as long as I shall live. Surely I will also have enough left over to fix all your broken bridges as well.

  118. Me said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:34

    This is all really just a variation on that shameful episode a few months back where the nuttier elements of the right were picking through that family’s garbage and examining their countertops. I said it then, and I’ll say it now: if your electoral strategy is to tell Americans that they ought to be happy just to be alive, you need to rethink your approach.

  119. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:35

    I’m not even going to mention what could be used as a source of protein in those noodles, but some of you, like pedestrian, might be able to guess why I won’t….

    I thank you for your restraint. We should work on a euphemism that doesn’t have the whole Pon Raul effect of calling advocates from across the internet.
    Kosher Calamari, perhaps?

  120. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:41

    I want statehood! Statehood for everybody!”

    Hey, man – l’etat, c’est moi.

  121. fahey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:41

    Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.
    p_lukasiak are you serous?
    You can get away with telling lies in Corrente’s little echo chamber, but outside that little den of fools saying crap like this makes you look like a idiot.

    Hillary has been talking this crap non stop for a week. She’s so damn busy talking about it she forgot to write the legislation, and she better get busy ’cause memorial day is 3 weeks away. I can’t wait to see her standing behind Bush as he signs the bill. Talk about ponies…

  122. Mwangangi said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:42

    I agree that the class = race example was poorly chosen. I’ve NEVER earned more than $30,000/year (matter of fact I’m “living” on about $12,000). I’m black and I’m more internet savvy than my friend, who happens to be a programmer.

    Of course I went to a science/math magnet school, so one could argue that I adopted a mindset that was outside my financial status. That argument would distract from the point I’m trying to make which is that race, class, and money don’t correlate with information or internet access.

  123. Arky H8r of VurdPress said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:45

    Well pedestrian, at least you can rely on Iron Babs to make insulting comments about the survivors.

    Consistency is a sign of a beautiful mind.

  124. Jay B. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:46

    Really, cracking the whip?
    Turn down the snark. If you can’t explain your “race is class” argument without cracking wise in ways that might actually offend people, do you really think you can have an interracial dialogue about race and class?

    Yeah, I’m with serena, HTML. You bitch and moan about the creative class bullshit when, in your example, old black women don’t know about blogs — thereby proving whatever the fuck point you were trying to make — then bow out with total class when called on it.

    Lambert’s being an idiot. His swipe at the “creative class” is utter bullshit. This argument about the gas tax is preposterous. And frankly, I don’t know what the fuck you’re trying to say. But serena brought up an example contra to yours and then you belittle her for it?

    Awesome.

  125. pedestrian said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:46

    I wonder who the Burmese Barbara Bush is? I’ll bet they have one.

  126. D.N. Nation said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:47

    There are people who are really getting hit hard by the increase in gas prices, and any little bit would help. Get off your high horse, and get a freaking clue — Obama’s arrogance and stupidity is going to mean at least four years of McCain, because he’s telling working class americans to eat Ramen noodles.

    So he should hitch his wagon to an obviously flawed policy?

  127. JK47 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:49

    Lambert is simply pointing out how arrogant Obama supporters are in trying to make such a huge issue out of it.

    I mean, can’t Obama be decent enough to let Hillary do her pandering in peace and quiet? It’s hard to pander effectively when some guy keeps pointing out what a pathetic joke it is.

  128. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:50

    … their Iraq plans are pretty much the same? No?

    Well, that’s my point. Central to it, even. The savings to be gained if we can wean ourselves from our Iraq habit so dwarf the (much disputed) promises being bandied about in this gas tax holiday sideshow that it is actively harmful to divert attention from the important work of getting the fuck out of that insatiable devourer of taxpayer money and metronomic off-shuffler of assorted mortal coils.

    On the other hand, the appeal of what is essentially a non-existent and unredeemable gas coupon that expires before it appears in print is pretty goddam powerful. We’re all whores, as they say, all that’s left to do is haggle over price. Thirty bucks is a bit of a lowball offer for my tastes, but hey, it’s not exactly a labor market at the moment.

  129. Marc said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:52

    One can respect intellectual consistency. Folks like Lambert have descended into simple hack work; that’s what is so utterly revealing here. I listened to him when he complained about Obama “reinforcing GOP frames”, even though I roll my eyes when people say “frames” and “memes” and blah balh.

    However, now it’s just the Jets and the Sharks. Clinton good, Obama bad. An intellectually honest person might say that it actually matters whether a given policy will actually work. What tools like him don’t realize is that they’re inflicting permanent damage on their own reputations. We’ve now had a good controlled experiment on the honesty, judgment, and integrity of lefty bloggers.

    Taylor Marsh, Larry Johnson, and Lambert have simply revealed themselves to be utterly dishonest hacks. I can’t trust anything they say; they sling venom at targets that don’t warrant it. They shovel out justifications for the theme of the day, rather than providing any sort of sober analysis. My opinion of a lot of left-leaning commentators has dropped, and this is especially true on the Clinton side. I’m tired of having my intelligence repeatedly insulted. Real progressives don’t need to adopt scorched-earth tactics with allies.

  130. Jennifer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:55

    If I wanted to be snarky, I’d just observe that Bush bought his votes with a promise of a piddling $300 tax cut, while Hillary is offering $30. Either Hillary is a cheap Bush or primary votes are worth 90% less than general election votes.

  131. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 18:59

    Remember several years back, when gas was around a buck something a gallon, and quite a few Dems and progressives suggested increasing gas taxes, because it would mean that people would think about using gas less, which would save the environment while reducing our dependence on foreign oil, plus the govt. would get revenue to improve infrastructure & mass transit?

    See, this is what pisses me off about the whole Lambert post: it’s another example of instant gratification… it’s a small short term gain in exchange for a long term disaster. It all boils down to wrecking the future and shitting on the heads of our children and grandchildren over some petty pissing contest as to whether Coke or Pepsi is better.

  132. Lawnguylander said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:01

    So making an issue out of a policy is arrogant?

    Only if you assume Lunchpail Larry and Sally Housecoat will understand the policy issue at hand well enough to gauge whether they’re being pandered to. If you credit them with too much sophistication then you’re essentially accusing them of being pointy headed elitists. The more humble candidates and bloggers don’t stoop to credit their audiences that way. Take Taylor Marsh. Last week in a post titled Gas Tax Pandering, she thought Tom Friedman was right on the money with his criticisms of the gas tax proposals but she’s not going to get caught assuming regular folk can see things as clearly:

    Make no mistake, the gas tax holiday is silly as energy policy. Worse than that, it’s posturing that doesn’t accomplish anything in the long-term. But it’s a way to reach swing voters, especially people who are desperate for any kind of relief at all. It’s a feel your pain moment that Clinton has grabbed, which Obama is ignoring for the high road. That’s his problem.

    Then she complains about how Clinton’s long term energy plan is being ignored by all this hullabaloo. How her real message is being ignored. I shit you not.

  133. DAS said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:04

    I have a question regarding the gas tax holiday:

    People who know more about economics than I do (recovering econ prof, Dr. Atrios, for instance) have demonstrated that the supply/demand curves for petrol are such that currently the oil companies “pay for” the gas tax, so if you’d take the tax away, it wouldn’t affect prices at the pump that much.

    But supposing that they didn’t. Supposing the equilibrium price of gas would decrease if the tax were removed. How long would it take that to happen? Maybe I’m saying this ’cause I’m a biophysical chemistry type and not an econ type, but equilibria don’t necessarily happen instantaneously.

    In this case, if the gas tax is removed, what’s to stop the oil companies from just raising the price of gas so the consumer sees nothing of the tax rebate? Competition you say? But how long will it take for someone to think “I can still have a bigger profit while lowering my prices” and start the downward spiral for prices? It might happen quickly, it might happen very slowly.

    I’m sure real economists think about “kinetics”, but our Econ 101 level discourse rarely discusses kinetics (as opposed to equilibria) except when a GoOPer needs an excuse for why an economic problem isn’t actually his fault.

  134. JK47 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:04

    The Gas Tax kerfuffle is to me a perfect illustration of why Obama is a superior candidate. Hillary will quite plainly do or say anything and stoop to any level to win. Obama wants to win the right way, or not at all.

  135. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:06

    Well, that’s my point. Central to it, even. The savings to be gained if we can wean ourselves from our Iraq habit so dwarf the (much disputed) promises being bandied about in this gas tax holiday sideshow that it is actively harmful to divert attention from the important work of getting the fuck out of that insatiable devourer of taxpayer money and metronomic off-shuffler of assorted mortal coils.

    That’s you point?

    Getting out of Iraq would save us more money, and the gas tax is harming that effort?

    Conflation? I mean, we aren’t getting out of Iraq until at least Jan 2009. Moot.

    But if that’s your point.

  136. owlbear1 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:17

    Hmm, 3.899 – .185 = 3.714

    Sorry, but no matter how many times she claims it, I still ain’t calling it rain…

  137. Balloon Juice said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:18

    [...] and if we do not have the Gas Tax Holiday, the good folks at Corrente will be forced to survive on ramen noodles and ketchup packets. I think we will all agree that is a better choice than their current diet of paint chips and [...]

  138. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:23

    This is moment where Hill’s camp Jumps the Shark.

    Heyyyyyyy!

  139. g said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:23

    Um, skipping about 137 posts unread to say – Isn’t this all about a freaking theoretical tax rebate that ISN’T GOING TO HAPPEN THIS SUMMER ANYWAY? Seeing as how none of these guys happen to be president in 2008?

  140. Snorghagen said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:23

    If I wanted to be snarky, I’d just observe that Bush bought his votes with a promise of a piddling $300 tax cut, while Hillary is offering $30. Either Hillary is a cheap Bush or primary votes are worth 90% less than general election votes.

    I look upon it as an enormous sale in which millions of overstocked voters have been drastically marked down in price due to a soon-to-be-discontinued political system.

  141. Vast Left said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:25

    A non-Lambert Correntian responds:

    http://www.correntewire.com/beware_of_sadness

  142. Tom Hilton said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:27

    Incidentally, I love how Lambert and Armando have taken to referring to all Obama supporters as “the creative class,” as if millions of voters around the country are all a bunch of fruity Yanni-loving wimps.

    And who would be completely missing from that characterization? Oh, yeah: African-Americans. Who, y’know, overwhelmingly support Obama.

    In other words, the whole anti-’elitist’ attack on Obama is predicated on the assumption that African-Americans don’t count. What a bunch of disgusting racist fucks.

  143. PeeJ said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:29

    To atheist et. al.,

    Yes, I’m sure Richard Florida coined “Creative Class” to help sell his book. But it’s not really a euphemism. As I recall, his “creative class” isn’t economically defined at all; the usual middle/lower class distinctions aren’t appropriate in this context. The creative class high is tech workers, artists, gay men (hah!) musicians, bohemians etc. He argues that general economic development is directly correlated with the concentration of “creatives.”

    OTOH, Lambert and his crew do use the term as a euphemism. an epithet even. His obvious resentment is amusing to me but then I’m a high-tech, gay, creative type.

    Anyway, what I really want to say is, how many Fuckbums does $30 get? Can a person live on Fuckbums alone?

  144. stryx said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:30

    USDA keeps track of this sort of stuff.

    The most recent Cost of Food Report is for March 2008

    Of course, they don’t consider ketchup and Necco wafers to be an actual diet, so YMMV.

  145. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:30

    g said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:23

    Um, skipping about 137 posts unread to say – Isn’t this all about a freaking theoretical tax rebate that ISN’T GOING TO HAPPEN THIS SUMMER ANYWAY? Seeing as how none of these guys happen to be president in 2008?

    Since they’re all Senators, they mentioned that supposedly they’ll put a bill before Congress about it in time for summer. As was noted earlier, though, that bill would probably have to be at least proposed and drafted before Memorial Day, which is only three weeks away.

  146. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:36

    There is no effin’ way that Bush will sign a bill that will tax the oil companies. And if he does, it is only because the republicans would rather go up against Hillary than face Obammunism. (Nice one.)

  147. White Male, Jew of Liberal Fascism said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:36

    Speaking of tax rebates, somebody sent me this e-mail the other day. It’s pretty good.

    **********************************

    The U.S. government is sending each and every American taxpayer a $600 rebate.

    If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, the money will go to China .

    If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.

    If we purchase a computer it will go to India .

    If we purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala .

    If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan .

    If we purchase useless crap it will go to Taiwan .

    And none of it will help the American economy.

    The only way to keep that money here at home is to buy prostitutes, weed, beer, cigarettes, whiskey, and tattoos, since these are the only products still produced in the USA .

    Thank you for your help and please support the USA .

  148. Jay B. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:37

    Hey Vast Left,

    Since you can’t read — or maybe you don’t understand irony, I don’t know and don’t care — the Marie Antionettish sentiments here are more along the line of this proposal is absurd. I don’t care who you are $30 over a summer is shit. It’s nothing and the laughable “it’ll keep you in RAMEN!!!11!” is more contemptuous and elitist than people pointing out how fucking stupid it is. That, literally, is the “let them eat cake” kind of attitude.

    Clinton’s proposal is just as hollow as McCain’s. The difference being that her “taking on the oil barons” will only result in a gas price hike after the windfall profit tax is “enforced” — do you really not get that? Really?

    It’s the silliest thing.

    And the harvesting of dandelion leaves is done with more than a little tongue in cheek. Honest. People might do it, but it’s also a commentary on Lambert’s absurd dietary advice for the poor.

    As far as the idea that encouraging consumption with an ineffectual gas tax holiday is elitist, well, great. What’s your idea to actually reduce the burden of energy costs? Anything? Anything at all?

    Someone above deplored the intellectual dishonesty, I wholeheartedly second that. My god, people have gone insane.

  149. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:37

    heir Iraq plans are pretty much the same? No?

    Hence the word both, i.e. both are better than McCain and both should be reaming him on this. He also didn’t imply that the gas tax holiday would hurt the effort to get out of Iraq, but that it’s a meaningless drop in the bucket, so why fight about the drop and not talk about the bucket? Sure, 30$ would help some people, but nobody gets $30, they spend 630$ instead of $660. That is assuming it even gets to consumers rather than providing yet another windfall for oil companies.

  150. r€nato said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:40

    As a video production expert/web designer/photographer, I guess that makes me part of the evil ‘Creative Class’.

    Golly. If only I’d known that one day I’d become the root of all evil which ills this country, I’d have changed my career to something more honest, like digging a ditch or something.

    Ai kin haz November yet?

  151. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:43

    Hence the word both, i.e. both are better than McCain and both should be reaming him on this.

    They should? Why again?

    Sure, 30$ would help some people, but nobody gets $30, they spend 630$ instead of $660.

    Ummm….

    As far as actual legislation is concerned… here you go S.2971.

  152. Lawnguylander said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:49

    A non-Lambert Correntian responds:

    Yeah but not here where the criticism is being made but over at his/her registration required blog. Gutsy.

  153. stryx said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:50

    plus Vast et al, as has been pointed out:

    1) This whole thing is Not Gonna Happen. Therefore, pandering.

    2) Like Porrafatto said, you’ve got to spend a shitpile on gas to get the $30. HC is not imagining giving all drivers a 30 dollar bonus. Poor people w/o a car? No ducats.

    3) There’s no shortage of fools on this site who have personal experience with the poordom. I’ve yet to see one of them jump and shout over the imaginary tax relief. They know when someone is telling them to eat cake.

  154. steve evfuture said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:50

    Hillary supporters have become like wingnuts. They simply defend everything that Hillary says or does, no matter how far-fetched the premise. I suppose it worked for Republicans, so maybe I can’t make too much fun of it, but, like wingnuts, I wonder whether Clinton supporters believe what they are saying or are just doing an end justifies the means thing.

  155. owlbear1 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:51

    Because willyj, handing over a nickel to help cover $10 tab is fucking tacky.

    That’s why willyj

  156. Jennifer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:51

    Haven’t read every comment so this may have already been said…but one of the reasons this idea sucks ass is that even assuming – and it’s a big assumption – that any savings get passed on to consumers at the pump, it’s the folks who are driving the most inefficient, monster gas-guzzlers who will get the biggest benefit. It’s like a reward for being such a wasteful fucking twit that you burn through enough fuel to increase demand, thereby increasing the price for EVERYONE, including the people who are being responsible by driving more fuel-efficient cars. It’s the equivalent of the Bush tax cut for businesses which was offered only to those businesses that bought hulking behemoth gas guzzlers.

  157. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:51

    They should? Why again?

    Because everyone with expertise in this sort of subject thinks it’s stupid.

  158. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:52

    willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:43

    Ummm….

    As far as actual legislation is concerned… here you go S.2971.

    Well shit, I guess there is a bill after all. I need to pay more attention to senate.gov and house.gov.

  159. Flying Spaghetti Monster™³²®© said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:52

    Good golly.

    Back in the days when pirates sailed the seas, we didn’t have Clintonites and righteous Obama supporters fighting, now did we?

    (As FSM, I claim the right to apply the supporter adjectives and modifiers I see fit, and if you don’t like it, you can kiss my noodly appendage. Or one of them, anyways.)

  160. Tom Hilton said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:55

    Yeah but not here where the criticism is being made but over at his/her registration required blog. Gutsy.

    Still waiting for my registration there to be approved. Guess they have to check my Clintonista credentials.

  161. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:56

    Ramen.

  162. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:56

    I wonder if Hillary wore the leather coat when she cleared the shark tank?

  163. Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:57

    I’d like to meet these people who are able to do oh so much with 30 theoretical dollars. To me $30 is definitely “real money”, but in the long term W.’s $600 distraction has much more impact on my finances. 1/2 month’s rent vs. about 8 loaves of bread.

    $3.80/gal instead of $3.98 doesn’t, as far as I can tell, make anyone any less fucked when it’s time to fill up.

  164. owlbear1 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:57

    bunnymen

  165. Legalize said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:57

    “The only way to keep that money here at home is to buy prostitutes, weed, beer, cigarettes, whiskey, and tattoos, since these are the only products still produced in the USA .”

    I plan on doing my part at around 11:00 tonight.

  166. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:58

    You really can’t think of any reason the two Democratic candidates should focus their ire on the Republican candidate?

    And what’s the “um” for? Do you not understand the difference between someone giving you money and someone taking your money, just a slim fraction less than they might have taken? Also, do you think the people poor enough to really need 30$ to eat Top Ramen and not starve are spending well over 100$ a month for gas?

  167. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:02

    Because willyj, handing over a nickel to help cover $10 tab is fucking tacky.

    **shrugs**

    Because everyone with expertise in this sort of subject thinks it’s stupid.

    Well, you see, not everyone.

    Even Obama is being challenged on the facts based on his own previous support of a tax holiday in Illinois.

    While an Illinois state senator, Obama supported a state tax holiday very much like Clinton’s proposal, but without the saving mechanism of a windfall profits tax.

    Different circumstances…fine.

    But again…lots of outrage over nothing?

  168. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:03

    I love it where Lambert can’t tell the difference between a gas tax at the state level and at the federal level.

    You’d think he could take Hillary’s dick out of his mouth long enough to hear her proposal to blunt the effects of her dumbass proposal.
    .

  169. NobodySpecial said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:04

    Y’know what?

    Fuck all ya’ll elitist fucks.

    If you don’t want my help electing the one note of sanity in this presidential cycle, you don’t have to keep pissing on where I live, what I eat, what I drink, what I do for entertainment, how often I go to the THEE AY TAH or if I wear the correct clothing to suit ya’ll.

    So why are ya’ll bitching about Marsh/Armando satirizing ‘low information’ poor ‘Heartlanders’? Ya’ll already BOUGHT the stereotypes – I guess you’re just pissed they say it out loud instead of snickering behind their hands.

  170. Flying Spaghetti Monster™³²®© said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:07

    Legalize said,

    May 6, 2008 at 19:57

    “The only way to keep that money here at home is to buy prostitutes, weed, beer, cigarettes, whiskey, and tattoos, since these are the only products still produced in the USA .”

    Hillary’s tax plan will get you 19.6 seconds with Elliot Spitzer’s lady friend.

    You might get more time with a colleague of Dave “The Shitter” Vitter, but our sources have become silent on that point.

    I think you could get 17 seconds with three diamonds, but

  171. Jay B. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:07

    I hope the Gas Tax Relief and Anti-Elitist Act of 08 is passed. I’m gonna drive cross-country twice to celebrate. Just think how much Ramen I’ll be able to buy after that!

  172. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:09

    How many federal jobs did the Illinois state gas tax cut threaten?

    Thank you.
    .

  173. Legalize said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:10

    Herr Spaghetti Monster, that quote should actually be attributed to the White Male – Jew of Liberal Fascism.*

    *Read this out loud; it sounds funny.

  174. zuzu said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:10

    More wisdom from Lambert’s commenters:

    The other thing is that, to the extent the gas tax passes on any savings to ordinary consumers, it will help even those too poor to pay income taxes or who pay very little income tax. A group helped little by middle class tax cuts.

    Yes, because those are EXACTLY the folks who will be driving those thousands of miles in their SUVs on their summer vacations.

  175. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:11

    I should have added to the “slim fraction less than they might have taken” that they’re taking far more this year than they did last; if prices don’t change, even after the windfall 18¢ it’ll still cost people 40¢ or more than last year.

  176. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:11

    Also, do you think the people poor enough to really need 30$ to eat Top Ramen and not starve are spending well over 100$ a month for gas?

    You’re getting hyperbolic for nothing.

    Lambert’s point was ‘any little bit helps’ those who are in financial troubles. Pander, no pander? Feh. When people had spent the past few days yelling $30 is chump change!!!, Lambert simply spoke up with personal experience to counter that notion.

    To some, $30 does mean something.

    But again, the point isn’t whether the legislation would work or not, is it?

    The outrage appears to be over this issue distracting us from Iraq according to D. Aristophanes?

  177. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:13

    …but they are cussed creatures that will never grow in any garden plot if they figure you intend to grow them there.

    Here’s the trick: abuse dandelions in your garden. DON’T tenderly transplant them into a loose, loamy, nicely prepared bed.

    DO plunk them into hard dirt and step on them to work ‘em in. It’ll work every time!

    The other thing to try is water in some seeds and step on ‘em a few times this year. Mowing helps too. You’ll probably have a nice bed of ‘em next year.

  178. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:13

    How many federal jobs did the Illinois state gas tax cut threaten?

    LOL

    Now a third complaint of the gas tax?

    Hard to keep up with the shifting of the meta.

  179. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:16

    I’m not “getting hyperbolic”, you really do have to spend ~$167 a month on gas for 4 months to “get” the 30$ off. And that’s assuming prices don’t change.

  180. Jay B. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:17

    Sales tax holidays = federal gas tax holiday w/windfall profit tax that will be ‘passed on to consumers’?

    And you wonder why people are getting pissed? This is an argument? Different circumstances, different tax, different impact and different reasons for implementing it. But other than that its exactly the same.

  181. His Grace said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:18

    To some, $30 does mean something.

    And perhaps we haven’t been clear: You have to do a lot of driving to get $30 in savings. Bear in mind that even with the gas tax gone, the price of gas will be higher than last year. Also note that most of us doubt that this will have a significant effect on reducing actual prices due to supply and demand curves and we also completely doubt that the wind-fall profits tax will survive either a filibuster or the veto pen of an oil executive president. In other words, while every little bit helps, we remain utterly unconvinced this will do what Senator Clinton says it will.

    Call me an elitist member of the creative class, but Americans need to be given working solutions not wishful thinking. Where has the latter gotten us this past eight years?

  182. kenga said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:19

    Now a third complaint of the gas tax?

    For myself, it’s the first and most significant.
    I’m trying to figure out how the extra $30 is going to help the 300,000 people who lose their jobs.
    It’s pretty fucking clear that the windfall profits tax is going to get vetoed by Bush. It’s not clear whether the same will happen to any bill incorporating the “gas tax holiday”, but it’s certainly possible.
    What position should I take on anyone proposing those things, if they don’t clearly state how unlikely it is to pass?

  183. Legalize said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:19

    Um, the federal jobs angle has always been one of the primary criticisms of the “Holiday” Like right at the top of the list. The fact that you are hearing so many arguments against the idea, is because it’s a bad idea for a lot of reasons, not because there is a shifting rationale. An idea can suck for more than one reason at a time.

  184. Flying Spaghetti Monster™³²®© said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:21

    To some, $30 does mean something.

    But again, the point isn’t whether the legislation would work or not, is it?

    The point is 1) it’s only 30$, 2) it’s not remotely expected to materialize even by its authors, AND 3) even if if you assume 1) and 2), it’s not going to help people who can’t afford to spend a lot of money on gas right now.

    These three things add up to one big B.S. pre-election pander, more typical of the GOP.

    And to pick at one piece of the rejoinder to this ass-hattery, Lambert-style, earns one nothing. No ramen for you.

    Maybe the obliterate Iran party can spare you some cake.

  185. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:22

    Meta nothing. We should be taxing the hell out of gas to private individuals and giving the huge cuts to public transportation. We need to re-aweken to the idea of the stick and the carrot.

    We absolutely should not be encouraging people to drive more. Even poor people. Isn’t there a pirate shortage we have to contend with?

  186. John Cole said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:23

    Christ on a crutch this is so damned stupid I can barely take it. I am a recovering Republican, so I know specious bullshit when I see it.

    Does $30.00 mean something to some people? Absolutely.

    Will they ever see a fucking penny of that $30.00? Absolutely not.

    Her bill was just introduced to the Senate Finance Committee. It will not pass even that committee, let alone the Senate. And if it did, do you think it will pass the House and then be signed by Bush, especially with the windfall provision?

    And then, even if it did pass, the consumers would not see any of the savings to begin with, ably discussed/demonstrated by EVERY GOD DAMNED ECONOMIST ON THE PLANET.

    Overall, this is like discussing the tooth fairy. Hey! That dollar you get underneath your pillow means something to the working poor. Don’t you care about the poor?

    Sure. Except there is no fucking thing as the tooth fairy.

    I really, really liked it better when I was the one spouting stupid bullshit.

  187. Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:24

    We absolutely should not be encouraging people to drive more. Even poor people.

    This would be a workable solution only if every working class individual not living in an urban center agreed to pool their lego collections and construct a system of monorails that will get them to and from work. Delivery drivers, of course, would be asked to grow wings by concentrating real hard.

  188. Jay B. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:24

    To some, $30 does mean something.

    30 bucks. Over 4 months. For people who drive a lot.

  189. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:25

    In other words, while every little bit helps, we remain utterly unconvinced this will do what Senator Clinton says it will.

    In other words, you don’t know if it will work or not?

    But someone told you it wouldn’t (experts) and Hillary is pandering for not agreeing with you and said experts?

    But then when experts told Obama his healthcare plan was unsound, those experts suddenly became shills?

    This is confusing.

  190. Gassy Ruppert said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:26

    The fact is, we true élitists prefer the New Yorker spelling….

    And $30 will buy about 5 ounces of Jamón ibérico.

  191. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:27

    Now a third complaint of the gas tax?

    No, that’s what I was referring to when I said:

    You’d think he could take Hillary’s dick out of his mouth long enough to hear her proposal to blunt the effects of her dumbass proposal.

    So, even Hillary Rodham Coulter has been talking about this angle, ever since she had to hitch yet another ride on the Republicans’ platform.
    .

  192. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:27

    It will not pass even that committee, let alone the Senate.

    So again (as been said already), it’s moot?

    So why the post, again?

    Why are you upset that Hillary is pandering?

  193. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:28

    This is confusing.

    Why does willy think Krugman is plural?
    .

  194. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:29

    I guess I open myself up to that sort of snark, Trav, but don’t we have a global warming crisis that will not care if you are rich or poor when it turns most usable land into desert, or was I missing something?

  195. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:29

    Even Krugman said it was a dumb idea.

  196. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:30

    Krugman-

    Gax Tax Follies

  197. Jay B. said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:30

    Do you even know what “moot” means dillweed?

    Hiint: it means “debatable”.

    That it is a dubious idea with no actual merit and won’t pass the committee, doesn’t mean it’s not something debatable.

  198. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:32

    Even Krugman said it was a dumb idea.

    And even after Krugman got called an “elitist” for being able to count (unlike Clinton’s over-65, no college education, menopause caucus demographics), he still thinks that the criticism of Clinton for floating a stupid idea is a sign that something is wrong with our national discourse.

    Feh. Something is wrong with Krugman’s spine. Perhaps he could find a different dominatrix to walk on it?
    .

  199. r€nato said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:33

    the Democrats couldn’t score from 3m out in a empty net, when the goal keeper has just been shot and the defence is smoking crack in the stands

    Yeah, where I live, we call that “The Phoenix Suns come playoffs time”.

  200. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:34

    Why are you upset that Hillary is pandering?

    Same reason we always get pissed off that some pampered elite is punking the rubes: we’re going to have to pay for their dumb asses while the parasites laugh.

    But usually, they’re Republicans.
    .

  201. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:34

    The outrage appears to be over this issue distracting us from Iraq according to D. Aristophanes?

    That’s right. I am not an economist and have no real opinion on whether the gas tax holiday would be effective at keeping more money in people’s pockets or not, or whether more indirect repercussions from such a policy would be to the overall good or bad. I will say that most experts I read seem to give it a ‘feh’.

    The point that’s important to me is that, look, it’s fine to have an honest policy dispute between political allies, over something like this gas tax holiday. But what blows my mind – and in this case I’m looking at the more rabid Hillary supporters – is when a difference of policy opinion over a relatively minor issue becomes blown up into some kind of ultimate test of ideological credentials, where vague shadings of general wonkish inclination are somehow rendered as the difference between good and evil.

    Because, look, we pretty much went directly from Hillary proposing her gas tax holiday to Lambert declaring that Obama wants us all to starve to death, do not pass go, do not discuss the merits of the policy arguments in dispute.

    That’s just insane. And distracting and stupid and insane and annoying and insane.

  202. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:36

    But then when experts told Obama his healthcare plan was unsound, those experts suddenly became shills?

    Perhaps you could point to one of us who said this.

  203. Lawnguylander said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:37

    But then when experts told Obama his healthcare plan was unsound, those experts suddenly became shills?

    Finally a Clinton supporter hits upon the one truly positive differentiator for her. Unfortunately he sets up a strawman in the process. I’ve never seen one post or comment here that criticized Krugman or other economists for preferring Clinton’s plan. So who are you addressing that to?

  204. D.N. Nation said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:38

    Now a third complaint of the gas tax?

    Um, it’s been one of my main ones all along. Holds true for a lot of people.

    That we can have so many complaints against the plan speaks poorly on the plan, doncha think?

    And even after Krugman got called an “elitist” for being able to count (unlike Clinton’s over-65, no college education, menopause caucus demographics), he still thinks that the criticism of Clinton for floating a stupid idea is a sign that something is wrong with our national discourse.

    I like Krugman well enough, but he’s being a friggin tool on this. Calling out the plan, but then blasting people for talking about it? Nice hedge. And honestly, after a month or so of Wright-cheesesteak-sniper fire-arugula-bitter, an actual debate on policy is a good thing. As for why we keep talking about this one issue, Paul, well…Hillary’s the one who keeps beating it into the ground.

  205. D.N. Nation said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:40

    Why are you upset that Hillary is pandering?

    I swear, it’s like HillBots are flipping through the Wingnut Argument Manual for the first time.

  206. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:42

    Grand Moff Texan: hey, I resemble etc

  207. It’s Just A Ride » Blog Archive » Why I Hate Primaries, Part Buhzillion said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:43

    [...] Jesus Christ. [...]

  208. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:43

    do not discuss the merits of the policy arguments in dispute.

    That’s just insane.

    No, that’s called “pounding the table,” because Clinton got caught trying to peddle an idea only a Republican would be stupid enough to fall for to the Democrats’ base.

    In the time of chimpanzees, she was a monkey.
    .

  209. OneMan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:43

    “a difference of policy opinion over a relatively minor issue becomes blown up into some kind of ultimate test of ideological credentials, where vague shadings of general wonkish inclination are somehow rendered as the difference between good and evil.”

    So help me out here…is this better or worse than the “flag lapel pin controversy”?

    Because it’s really getting tough to know which phony “issue” I need to watch to know just how these people are going to lose to McJowls.

  210. Flying Spaghetti Monster™³²®© said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:45

    Via the sweaty blue guy.

  211. His Grace said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:45

    In other words, you don’t know if it will work or not?

    Umm Willy, hate to break it to you, but as a general rule nobody can predict the future. All we can do is guess. And if you were paying attention, we had some very good points as to why we didn’t think it would work. You feel otherwise, fine. But I hate to break it to you, but you really haven’t dealt with our core criticisms, like having to drive lots to make the $30 back, how poor people without cars get nothing, or how Hillary doesn’t have a chance in hell in getting the windfall tax through as a bill. It’s not as if you haven’t had the opportunity.

  212. PeeJ said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:47

    But someone told you it wouldn’t (experts) and Hillary is pandering for not agreeing with you and said experts?

    Are you being obtuse deliberately or can’t you help it? Hillary is pandering because
    a. 99.99% of experts think it’s a bad idea
    b. the actual “relief” anyone will see is, at best, teensy weensy
    c. it won’t actually change prices at the pump
    d. if it does temporarily result in lower prices, it will spur demand, thus causing prices to go up and the value of the dollar to shrink even further.
    e. there’s a significant cost to our infrastructure and in jobs
    f. it doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of passing

    And it’s not pandering because…?

    But then when experts told Obama his healthcare plan was unsound, those experts suddenly became shills?

    Again, do you not actually understand the difference between “some experts” and “every fucking economist on the planet INCLUDNG her fan Krugman”? You must be putting us on. That or you’ve got Fuckbum for a brain.

  213. Fozzetti said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:50

    As usual, the Rich benefit the most from Tax Breaks.

  214. chiggins said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:50

    So this douchebag is using “Creative Class” as a pejorative? And he’s a blogger?

    No shit? Wow.

  215. zeppo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:55

    I just took my wife out for her birthday, and my daughter ordered a steak with french fries that ended up costing $30, by itself. $4 for the strawberry lemonaide.

    There goes my gas tax break. However, it’s nice to know that I singlehandedly pumped up the economy of one corner of Monroe, Washington. I feel very good about myself, actually.

  216. Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:56

    Short version:

    McCain and Clinton want to cut a tax on producers. McCain hopes you’re stupid enough to think the savings will be passed on to you. Clinton is trading one tax on oil companies with another, and hopes you’re stupid enough to believe that a non-existent savings will be passed on to you.

    And neither proposal resembles the retail tax in Illinois that Obama voted for.

    Oh, but we’re the big meanies for not being stupid enough to fall for any of this? Fuck all of y’all Republicans, especially the ones that call themselves “Democrats” for no damned good reason.
    .

  217. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:04

    Grand Moff Texan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 20:43

    No, that’s called “pounding the table,” because Clinton got caught trying to peddle an idea only a Republican would be stupid enough to fall for to the Democrats’ base.

    In the time of chimpanzees, she was a monkey.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=TJN3PGqDRNg

  218. Ghost of Malfunctioning Glenn Reynolds Robot 4.0 said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:06

    Hehhhhhhh…indeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed…boogity boogity boo!

  219. willyjsimmons said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:10

    That or you’ve got Fuckbum for a brain.

    Ow.

    is when a difference of policy opinion over a relatively minor issue becomes blown up into some kind of ultimate test of ideological credentials, where vague shadings of general wonkish inclination are somehow rendered as the difference between good and evil.

    Who called who ‘evil’ in this instance? Not getting where you’re coming from with this? Who did lambert imply was evil over the gas tax? Did lambert imply that Obama was evil ?

    Don’t think he did?

    As far as a ultimate test of ideological credentials both sides have played that game. Haven’t they?

    Lambert’s first post about the issue is skeptical of the plan itself citing Krugman

    The set of economists I have absolute trust in has exactly one member: Paul Krugman. And he doesn’t see any real problem with Hillary helping working folks out with a few bucks.

    Who’s making a huge deal out of it?

    Because, look, we pretty much went directly from Hillary proposing her gas tax holiday to Lambert declaring that Obama wants us all to starve to death, do not pass go, do not discuss the merits of the policy arguments in dispute.

    Then you missed the posts in between where the issue of policy was in fact discussed.

    Discuss the policy (of which he have not seen) all you want. Have at it. Knock yourselves out.

    quoting the original post:

    If the great distinction between Clinton and Obama is the latter’s unwillingness to let us all have a few extra syrup sandwiches this summer … well, really.

    No. It’s not. I think you know that.

    So I ask again, who is making a big deal out of it?

  220. comsympinko said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:14

    Ramen Noodle Delight–

    4 packets Vegetarian Ramen Noodles (10 for $1.00, $0.40)
    4 bone-in chicken thighs ($1.69/lb as quarters, $1.00)
    4 chicken drumsticks ($1.69/lb as quarters, $1.00)
    1 large yellow onion, diced ($0.66/lb, $0.22)
    1 large celery stalk, diced including greens ($1.49/bunch, $0.25)
    1 large carrot, peeled and diced ($1.19/lb, $0.40)
    1 bunch scallions, diced ($0.66/bunch, $0.66)
    2 tbsp vegetable oil (negligible)
    2 tsp ground black pepper (negligible)
    Water (negligible)

    Total Cost: $3.72 (All prices from my local Shop Rite)

    Separate chicken quarters into thighs and drumsticks; skin. Fry yellow onion and chicken skin in veg. oil until brown. Remove chicken skin, Add celery and carrot, fry 1 minute. Add water per directions on Ramen packets plus three cups, bring to boil. Add Ramen noodles, seasoning packets, chicken thighs, chicken drumsticks and black pepper. Cook at least two hours, four or more is best. Serve with diced green onion garnish. Serves 6-8

    This actually works. Use the vegetarian Ramen to avoid all the hideous additives, the holy trinity gives it bulk, the chicken gives it fat and protein and the pepper and green onion give it some excellent flavor.

    Cooking good, cheap food isn’t easy but it can be done. Soups and stews are your best bet.

  221. mikey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:17

    Here. Enjoy a little Beach Boys and relax.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we weren’t stupid
    Then we wouldn’t have to play this game
    And wouldn’t it be nice to discuss the issues
    Trivialities are just so lame

    You know its gonna cause us so much pain
    If we end up with president John McCain

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the press would cover
    The important issues of the day
    And the candidates could actually discover
    The world is really not what they portray

    Happy times would be a real conversation
    Where politicians cared about our Nation
    Wouldn’t it be nice

    Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray it might come true
    Then we wouldn’t be headed for hell in a canoe
    We could be married
    And then wed be happy

    Wouldn’t it be nice

    You know it seems the more we talk about it
    It only makes it worse to live without it
    But lets talk about it
    Wouldn’t it be nice

    mikey

  222. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:21

    If I am elected I will obliterate this gas tax holiday.

  223. nezua said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:23

    I’m not exactly sure when Lambert lost his mind. It was actually even before Edwards dropped out. But I think that was the point where he seriously started going off the rails. At least I can say it’s when I began to find the whole vibe there very intense and strange. (Then again I’m one of those reviled “creative types” so who cares about my perception of Corrente.) I’m one of five people who doesn’t even post there anymore, and who once did regularly (I had been invited to do so). A couple have formally left. Not everyone states their reasons, but it’s pretty evident.

    It’s not even that the site is virulently anti-Obama and anyone who supports Obama, it’s that they are not even consistent. On one hand the general consensus over there is that any opposition to Clinton must be misogyny, and yet when they read someone claim that anti-Obama sentiment is racist (not a claim I make), they drop so much sour sarcasm you’d think they all snarked their pants at once.

    This is only one of the contradictions. There is many. It’s clear that reason isn’t in charge, just hostility. It’s a one-trick show. And the saddest part is that they don’t mind at all using all the Right-Wing framing and insults against liberals and those on the left that once they would have detested. Traded everything away to simply hammer against Obama every day. Traded class, logic, amiability, integrity, and style. Now there’s nothing but anger, sarcasm and delusion. But it’s good to see who flocks there. Useful.

    Mostly I can’t believe he turns that nasty, unfunny “snark” (and dude, it’s not “shrill,” it’s just sulky and pathetic) on anyone who isn’t in their boat. The whole lockstep thing is creepy. And insulting people now for being creative? Insulting graphic artists? I mean….really? What the hell.

    I think some people use politics to stir up their own hate or hostility or other such negativity sometimes and just lose sight of what they are doing. Either that or I never knew them over there in the first place.

  224. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:23

    Enjoy a little Beach Boys and relax.

    Typical Liberal Fascist telling me what I should do…

  225. Dan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:25

    Some reaction to Hillary being pilloried is the same as the Bush dead-enders. Their hero comes up with a stupid plan. It is called stupid. Then they say “do you have a better plan? let’s hear it!”
    We don’t have to come up with a better plan, we just don’t want you to institute the STUPID ONE!

  226. mikey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:25

    Graphic artists regularly piss me off.

    What?

    mikey

  227. R. Porrofatto said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:27

    The outrage appears to be over this issue distracting us from Iraq…?

    I’m not outraged, but I am a bit appalled. Because this insane, piddling crap is distracting us from a whole bunch of things besides Iraq:

    - The gas tax holiday is not Hillary Clinton’s stupid idea, it’s John McCain’s stupid idea. It’s Gooper smoke & mirrors bullshit from the get-go.

    - Which of the three candidates is proposing to raise taxes on Wall Street parasites, and which will close the loophole whereby hedge funders only pay 15% federal tax on billions in income? Want to help the poor buy food, want to build schools, roads, etc.? That’s a start.

    - How much is the Federal minimum wage now? Which of the three candidates supports raising it to $9.50 in 2011? How much should it really be if it kept pace with inflation?

    - Which of the three candidates is scored by the Children’s Defense Fund Action Council as the worst in the U.S. Senate for children?

    Et fucking cetera, ad nauseum.

    Given the shit we are facing, and the political fight in November, hacking about $30 in vapor savings on $675 worth of gasoline is more than a distraction, it’s criminal.

  228. Marita said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:27

    All I’m gonna say is “You are what you eat!”

    i can has be cheezburger?

    What, was there some other conversation going on here?

  229. zeppo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:27

    A little Beach Boys goes a long, long way…. I now have Little Old Lady from Pasadena running through my head, and I can’t get rid of it.

    Thanks SO very much.

  230. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:28

    I used to enjoy the gas tax holidays in my youth, but it all seems so crass and commercial now.

  231. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:28

    Graphic artists regularly piss me off.

    I get choked at the vague ones.

  232. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:31

    I used to enjoy the gas tax holidays in my youth, but it all seems so crass and commercial now.

    You have to admit that the lighting of the candles at the local gas station did not work out that well.

  233. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:32

    I used to enjoy the gas tax holidays in my youth, but it all seems so crass and commercial now.

    Win.

  234. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:34

    It took 230 comments for someone to say something funny.

    I think we are taking this all a little too seriously.

  235. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:36

    Do not dis the Smut at comment one.

  236. D.N. Nation said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:37

    Shorter willyjsimmons:

    The fault of a bogus policy lies not in the person who proposed it, but in people protesting the proposal.

    All aboard the Hugh Hewitt Ad Hoc Express!

  237. Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:37

    I think S,N! needs more humorous (I guess) footnotes and annotations to truly be taken seriously.

  238. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:38

    but cost me about 650 cents less than that at a roadside near Concord.

    I dunno about the roadsides in Concord, but highway roadsides (and train tracks in many places) can sometimes be sprayed with nasty stuff. Go a little further in.

  239. Dan said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:39

    Hey, t4toby, what about, way early in the thread, my Guam comment? My… Guamment.

  240. zeppo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:40

    I second the motion for more humorous footnotes and annotations!

  241. Specialist G said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:40

    I don’t see how anyone can question the sincerity of McHillary’s concern for the working class. Remember what an oasis of workers’ rights Wal-Mart was during her six year tenure on their board of directors? Besides she gave a speech from the bed of a pick-up truck she’s never driven, just like Freddy T! I swear, it’s like Joe Hill went to Wesseley…

  242. His Grace said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:40

    You have to admit that the lighting of the candles at the local gas station did not work out that well.

    RB is this what you are thinking of?

  243. PeeJ said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:43

    I now have Little Old Lady from Pasadena running through my head, and I can’t get rid of it.

    You can lure her out by placing gas tax holiday coupons near your ears.

  244. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:44

    Okay, you’re right. I should have said something to the effect of, “230 comments and only a few funny ones. We are taking this all a little too seriously.”

    I stand corrected. I would never purposefully belittle my fellow Nosians.

  245. spencer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:45

    In this case, if the gas tax is removed, what’s to stop the oil companies from just raising the price of gas so the consumer sees nothing of the tax rebate? Competition you say? But how long will it take for someone to think “I can still have a bigger profit while lowering my prices” and start the downward spiral for prices? It might happen quickly, it might happen very slowly.

    Or not at all – because for what you suggest to actually happen, the supply of gas needs to be less fixed. That’s because, in order to compensate for lowering prices, a seller must be able to sell more (“we make it up in volume!”). But if supplies are fixed (which they more or less are, thanks to OPEC), then that’s not possible. Lowering prices will only lower profits. If you only have so much gas to sell and can’t get more, why sell a gallon of gas for $3.40 if you can sell it for $3.60?

  246. comsympinko said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:47

    Smokey Pork Shoulder Surprise–

    1 lb fresh pork shoulder, boneless, quartered ($2.29/lb, $2.29)
    1 lb smoked pork shoulder, boneless quartered ($1.69 lb, $1.69)
    1 large Eastern potato, diced ($1.50/lb, $0.50)
    1 large red tomato, diced ($0.75 each)
    1 large red onion, diced ($0.66/lb, $0.22)
    1 tbsp dried oregano (negligible)
    1 tsp dried red pepper (negligible)
    1 tbsp black pepper (negligible)
    2 tbsp vegetable oil (negligible)
    1 cup water
    Total Cost: $5.47

    Brown onion in veg oil until brown. Add potato, tomato, oregano, red pepper, black pepper and water, bring to a boil. Add fresh and smoked pork shoulder quarters, reduce to simmer and cook covered for 2 hrs, stirring occasionally.
    The pork will fall apart, giving a nice, rich stew. Add 1 cup water and let cook another hour if still very chunky. Serves 6-8.

    Eliminate potato and serve as hot open faced sandwich on white bread ($0.99/loaf) or potato bread ($1.39/loaf). Makes 10-12 sandwiches.

  247. OneMadClown said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:49

    All of this talk about imaginary gas tax holidays and political infighting misses the most important question of all…

    Mikey, what’s for dinner?

  248. Blue Buddha said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:49

    His Grace said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:40

    RB is this what you are thinking of?

    Maybe they can do “gas dance” to appease the gods so that they can rain down gasoline from heaven.

  249. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:50

    Barbecued Dying Addax with Masculine fresh Spinaches

    Ingredients:
    4 cups talented addax, inadequately chilled
    7 gallons ordinary spinach, wimpishly broiled
    5 gallons sun-dried orange, braised
    7 jiggers cockroach toe, pulled
    1 pinch flour
    1 pinch brown sugar

    Pick over the ingredients and discard excess concrete. Place the addax into a large bowl. Use a food processor to combine the orange with the spinach. Stuff the resulting concoction into the addax. Barbecue – very abjectly – the cockroach toe, flour, and the brown sugar. Encrust the latter combination on to the former. Abandon for 5 hours. Serves 7.

  250. OneMadClown said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:52

    And kudos to comsympinko for the cheap eats recipes, which sound pretty tasty.

  251. OneMadClown said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:54

    Do you have any idea what mediocre addax is going for these days, let alone talented??
    Elitist.

  252. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:55

    Just this morning I was listening to “I Hate the Beach Boys” by The Bobs.

    Interesting coincidence… or is it?

  253. zeppo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:55

    I was wondering what you were going to do with the rest of the addax, given you are only using four cups. What a waste of addax, talented at that.

  254. Doodle Bean said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:55

    SHIT! Another unclosed tag. Sorry.

  255. Sadly, No! » The stupid bullshit needs to stop said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:56

    [...] you equate eating a block of cheese with some sort of bachelor paradise. « Ramengate Comes To A Boil [...]

  256. Doctorb Science said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:58

    Comsympinko, if you’re frying onions and chicken parts and all that, you’re cooking. If you’re cooking, you have no need for damn Ramen because you could cook some regular noodles, which are cheaper.

    … hm, maybe not cheaper, but you won’t get a full day’s RDA of saturated fat at least.

    Anyway, Ramen cup-o-noodles bullshit is not food for eating regularly. Jesus.

  257. robert green said,

    May 6, 2008 at 21:59

    i will reference every comment i’ve ever made here (and will note that they only get agreement from others)

    either hilary or obama is infinity x 7 better than mccain.
    either hilary or obama is infinity x 7 better than mccain.
    x infinity.

    so, douchebags, i will submit to you the following: that hilary’s campaign is going after obama using republican talking points, which i don’t like, and obama has made it clear he will not go after republicans for being the scum that they are, which i don’t like, and yet…

    either hilary or obama is infinity x 7 better than mccain.

    so, (professor from futurama voice) GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!!! this piddly bullshit is not going to change the salient fact of either of our candidates betterness (have i mentioned x 7 infinity etc.?) than shitheel asswagon notalent corrupt hundredmillionaire warloving antichoice alzheimer’s suffering fucktard john mccain.

    so all of you shut…the…fuck…up.

  258. Travis said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:01

    Hey remember when Obama threatened Iran with genocide? Good times.

  259. Jennifer said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:01

    This whole thing is so monumentally stupid it makes my head hurt.

    There are a lot of ways I could save $10 a month without costing 300,000 people their jobs. Here are just a few:

    - use 3 gallons less gasoline per month (drive 15 miles less per week). Easily done by not driving one day on the weekend, combining trips, etc.
    - carry lunch to work 1.5 times per month.
    - leave the AC off until it really gets hot (this will save more than $30 in one month).
    - cook “from scratch” (I already do this on just about everything, but for example: 1 lb deli turkey = $7 + per pound; 1 lb turkey cooked at home = $2.50 per lb. or less).
    - give up my 6 – 8 cigarettes per day, which are unhealthy anyway (savings of $40 per month).

    Granted I’m not as poor as a lot of folks out there, but the point is, I’ve just identified at least $70 I could save per month, with relatively little or no pain (other than the cigarettes – that would be hard). And the oil companies would never be able to get their grubby mitts on any of it.

    We got to where we are with politicians always telling people what they want to hear and making stupid policies to keep the rubes fat and happy. Perhaps in the long run that’s not a really great idea.

  260. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:02

    What a waste of addax, talented at that.

    There is no sadder sight than a wasted addax.

  261. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:04

    I got an addax wasted once.

    Let me tell you, that isn’t a mistake I’ll make twice.

  262. zeppo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:04

    Maybe the Beach Boys when they are all in their 60′s. That’s a pretty sad sight, too.

  263. mikey said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:06

    Mikey, what’s for dinner?

    Well, Plan A was Tillapia tacos with slaw and a mango pico.

    But I’m just finishing stuffing down a fallafal the size of my head.

    So that may turn out to be a non-starter.

    If so, Plan B is to do pound out a chicken breast, cut it into a couple little patties, bread ‘em spicy and crispy, cook ‘em fast in a little butter and put ‘em on sliced biscquits. Just have to do some shredded lettuce and a garlic/mustard aioli and that’ all she wrote. I’ve got some jalapeno corn bread I made over the weekend in the freezer for a snack.

    mikey

  264. comsympinko said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:09

    Rip Roaring Ragout–

    3 28 oz. cans crushed tomatoes (10 for $10.00, $3.00)
    1 6 oz. can tomato paste w/Italian seasonings ($0.67)
    2 large yellow onions, chopped ($0.66/lb, $0.44)
    2 large celery stalks, diced including greens ($1.49/bunch, $0.50)
    2 large carrots, peeled and diced ($1.19/lb, $0.80)
    2 zucchini, sliced into thin medallions ($0.50 per, $1.00)
    2 large cloves of garlic, crushed ($3.19/lb, $0.30)
    2 tbsp salt
    1 tbsp dried red pepper
    1 tbsp dried oregano
    1 tbsp dried rosemary
    2 tbsp vegetable oil

    Total Cost: $6.71

    Brown onion and garlic in vegetable oil. Add celery and carrot, fry 1 minute. Add tomatoes, tomato paste, zucchini, salt, red pepper, oregano and rosemary. Bring to slow simmer and cook one hour. Serve as stew (serves 4-6) or as dressing for spaghetti ($0.99/lb, covers 2 lbs. spaghetti, serves 10-12)

    Isn’t it odd that cooking with fresh vegetables is considerably more expensive than cooking with meat, especially if you don’t serve it with pasta?

  265. Brando said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:10

    There’s nothing elitist about calling a pandering, dumb fuck idea a pandering, dumb fuck idea.

    I am for Obama, but I will gladly vote for Clinton over McCain if she gets the nod. But it’s this kind of Bush-level gimmickry that bothers me. What the fuck do they expect the poor to do? Take that $30 and shout free at last, free at last!. It’s $30 dollars maximum. Even in my poorest days (making under $20g a year), when $30 did mean something, it didn’t mean that much. It’s a short-sided idea that makes her look like a pandering hack and obscures some of the good ideas she does have.

  266. zeppo said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:12

    $30 buys you several rounds of beer and shots down at the local pub.

  267. PeeJ said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:17

    Juneau AL is running on diesel, due to a surfeit of avalanches messing up their hydroelectric transmission lines. Prices expected to quintuple. What do they do? They cut usage by 1/3. At least. In one week’s time.

    We could easily lower gas prices by a good bit more than $0.18 per gallon. All it takes is for most people to cut their usage by, say 10%. Or a heck of a lot of people cutting 20% out of their personal demand. Then there’s the ecological benefits, less strain oin the poor dollar…..

    Oh fuck there I go getting myself depressed again.

  268. Burmese Barbara Bush said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:19

    At least they had the sensation of clean water for the first time in their yellow-skinned lives.

  269. David Coverdale's Pinched Anus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:22

    Lite Metal is about good times and great memories.

  270. Lawnguylander said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:22

    so all of you shut…the…fuck…up.

    You don’t want to read comments from people arguing over the merits of their candidate during the primary season or the shittiness of the other candidate? Boo fucking hoo for you. Go do something else.

  271. kenga said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:30

    Oh fuck there I go getting myself depressed again.

    Didn’t Whitesnake do a song by that name?

  272. stryx said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:32

    PeeJ said,
    May 6, 2008 at 22:17

    Juneau AL is running on diesel, due to a surfeit of avalanches

    PeeJ, I’m assuming you mean Juneau AK not Juneau ALabama.

    ‘Cause this Global Climate Change business is way worse than I imagined if I’m wrong….

  273. Gerald Curl said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:43

    I remember walking into a London Tesco 10 years ago and seeing that the Heinz baked beans were on sale for 14 pence per can. Thought I had died and gone to heaven.

  274. tigrismus said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:50

    Everyone else thought you’d just died. A week ago.

  275. Smut Clyde said,

    May 6, 2008 at 22:52

    In this case, if the gas tax is removed, what’s to stop the oil companies from just raising the price of gas so the consumer sees nothing of the tax rebate? Competition you say? But how long will it take for someone to think “I can still have a bigger profit while lowering my prices”

    My understanding is that each oil company cannot increase profit by lowering prices and selling more, because it has access to only a limited amount of raw material (contracts and all). The price is demand-driven. The Clinton proposal implicitly accepts that removing the tax on petrol will not reduce pump prices but simply provide a windfall profit for the oil companies, which will then be taken back off them via a different tax.
    Strikes me that there is a good argument for increasing petrol tax… no impact on pump prices, less profit for the companies, more tax revenue that could be used to lower taxes elsewhere or improve public transport.

    That’s my policy proposal for the Mikey Party.
    Proposal #2 is that if you must have a tax holiday, it should instead be called a tax fiesta, so as to cause fear and trembling in the hearts of the Hispanophobics.

  276. t4toby said,

    May 6, 2008 at 23:05

    That’s what I’m saying, Smutty. We need to raise that shit, not lower it.

    Although Travis pointed out that this might have a negative impact on the Children of the Heartlands’ lego sets.

  277. Brandi said,

    May 6, 2008 at 23:13

    A little Beach Boys goes a long, long way…. I now have Little Old Lady from Pasadena running through my head, and I can’t get rid of it.

    That’s Jan and Dean, actually. And believe me, this will drive it out of your head (but at what cost?)

    Also, as frustrated as we are with Clinton, just keep this in mind:

    “Republican presidential candidate John McCain, seeking to shore up conservative support, vowed to model his Supreme Court appointees after George W. Bush’s and accused his Democratic opponents of favoring ‘activist’ judges.”

  278. Crissa said,

    May 6, 2008 at 23:59

    Holy crap, you cannot buy hot lunch for your child for a month for $30 unless you’ve gotten the reduced price lunches…

    Stupid.

    …But yeah, I harvest dandelions regularly to feed our lizard. We only eat store-bought ones, though, as getting enough broad leaves is tough. We grow edible flowers on our porch, we quit growing fruit like tomatoes because half of ‘em would get stolen.

  279. Jrod said,

    May 7, 2008 at 0:29

    Who called who ‘evil’ in this instance? Not getting where you’re coming from with this? Who did lambert imply was evil over the gas tax? Did lambert imply that Obama was evil ?

    No you fuckwit, Lambert merely implied that Obama was an uncaring elitist who has no trouble with poor people starving, which is apparent because he refuses to support a tax-break for fucking oil companies.

    When I think back to the times in my life when I survived on ramen and dollar-store food, I’m not thinking back on any time I was spending over $600 a month on gas. Yes, in those times an extra $30 would have been a godsend, but this stupid god damned gas-tax holiday will not be giving such poor people a fucking cent, you dick-brained imbeciles!!!!!

  280. Dem on Dem Crime « Beware The Man said,

    May 7, 2008 at 1:13

    [...] These are. God bless S,N! [...]

  281. Henry Holland said,

    May 7, 2008 at 4:22

    The Dems are like a god-damn council meeting

    No, they’re like Dennis from this scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

    ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
    WOMAN: No one live there.
    ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
    WOMAN: We don’t have a lord.
    ARTHUR: What?
    DENNIS: I told you. We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
    ARTHUR: Yes.
    DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting.
    ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
    DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,–
    ARTHUR: Be quiet!
    DENNIS: –but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more–
    ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
    WOMAN: Order, eh — who does he think he is?
    ARTHUR: I am your king!
    WOMAN: Well, I didn’t vote for you.

  282. noen said,

    May 7, 2008 at 6:59

    I haven’t read through all the comments but as I understand it the gas tax holiday will not lower the price of gas one iota. Therefore the entire bruhaha is moot. So sayeth me, so sayeth we all.

  283. noen said,

    May 7, 2008 at 7:03

    Oh.. I see that Smut Clyde (among others) is on top of it. sorry.

  284. Mike, in teh H.....Shoulderland said,

    May 7, 2008 at 7:28

    Honestly and in real life, I admit to a stash of foraged sumac (Rhus typhina) in

    That’s actually pretty good stuff. Somewhere between pomegranate & cranberry, + lemonade .

    For all you city kids , put 2 or 3 fruit in 2qts of water, and soak for a couple days (refrigerated) . Then strain, and sweeten to taste (or not) .

    Garlic Mustard? . Hate that stuff , as a weed . Never ate it . Probably be good with fiddleheads. (Ostrich Fern) . If ya can’t beat it, eat it . ;) Thanks D Aristophanes.

  285. RobW said,

    May 7, 2008 at 8:02

    Proposal #2 is that if you must have a tax holiday, it should instead be called a tax fiesta, so as to cause fear and trembling in the hearts of the Hispanophobics.

    Also, a tax fiesta must somehow involve fish tacos and tequila. This is not negotiable.

  286. Mary Grabar said,

    May 7, 2008 at 8:20

    I’ll tell you where I could afford to shop for a month’s worth of food with $30 and that’s the Food Bank where groceries don’t cost but the bus getting to and fro would cost at least $30 (and that’s only if you could fake-stretch your bus tickets and/or appeal to the better nature of the bus driver to let you ride for free for the last two weeks of the month.

    Clearly, these idiots do not shop for groceries.

  287. Lesley said,

    May 7, 2008 at 8:20

    must.remember.to.change.my.nick.back

  288. Pinko Punko said,

    May 7, 2008 at 8:54

    Oh great, I thought that really WAS Mary Grabar.

    I say we just let tigrismus take on the entirety of Corrente. If this post was considered an “attack” what happens when t. loads up the Rolo gun and the hammer-time pants?

    Trouble.

  289. Pinko Punko said,

    May 7, 2008 at 9:23

    I’d like to take a moment to understand something, in my super serious voice. I’d like to understand this.

    I quote Mr. L:

    Who are they attacking personally? Moi? My heart’s going pit-a-pat, because they’re double our size and we can always use the hits.

    It comes with the territory—within reason, that stops with Malkin-esque maneuvers and DOS attacks—and it’s part of calling bullshit.

    I just don’t think the post is a good job of calling bullshit, that’s all. Wrong on the points made, general “Fuck the poor” attitude — add them to the list of people the OFB has thrown overboard — and writing that’s a lot less excellent than I expect from S/N (“Ramen-gate”? Where’s the scandal?) And the deterioration reminds me of, well, posting a doctored video of what turned out to be copyrighted material without either checking provenance or getting a transcript. And what would be the common factor there? (And if there’s an equivalent example on the Hillary side, leaving aside the raw partisans like Johnson or Marsh, I’d like to have one.)

    The reason I can’t understand the above, is because I CAN understand the point about a particular 30 dollars meaning something to some people, but the 30 dollars we were talking about was a specific non-existent 30 dollars, and the getting of the non-existent 30 dollars relates to spending 600 something dollars minimum. So moving beyond the non-existent 30 dollars, what is the point?

    OK, so then the reminding and the insult. The entire original post was an insult predicated on the notion that- I can’t even unpack it. We’ve been thrown in with the execrable Emuvosis at the end there. John Idiot Emu says something, gets denounced by everyone, everyone and now he’s the poster child.

    Never mind.

    OK, one more thought. Of course “OFB- Obama Fan Boys” and lo, are they annoying, but when your entire raison d’etre is propped up with a gigantic apparition based solely on your own projection, you just might start to come across as deranged.

    This election is just showing us the people we’ve all been in bed with the entire time. I sure as hell hope the arguments that have been made prior to this gigantic reality check we’re all dealing with haven’t been this hollow, or this pathetic, because there is simply nothing different between the crazies on either side, save progressive policies. We can’t argue that we’re better or smarter that is for sure. LESS EVIL, EQUALLY DERANGED, OBLIVIOUS, GIGANTIC PERSONAL BLINDSPOTS DIME A DOZEN.

    Donezoes. DONE.

  290. Doodle Bean said,

    May 7, 2008 at 9:33

    …what happens when t. loads up the Rolo gun and the hammer-time pants?

    T. does look fly in those hammertime pants, so I’d probably say, “Ooh la la!”

  291. Smut Clyde said,

    May 7, 2008 at 9:50

    We cn hz piktures?

    a tax fiesta must somehow involve fish tacos and tequila
    And sombreros thrown in the air.

  292. Alex said,

    May 7, 2008 at 11:04

    Why stop at thirty bucks? Why not SEND EVERYONE A BARREL OF OIL? And a pony (for when you’ve used it all). You could call it “Crude for Clinton”.

    Christ, this is depressing. Especially the expert-hatin’, which is just so…Republican.

    If you want a serious policy proposal, in France a lot of jobs come with public transport season tickets as a perk; this happens for a good reason, which is that it’s tax-deductible for both sides (i.e. the salary you take as tickets doesn’t count towards income tax, and the employer can treat it as a cost of doing business rather than payroll).

  293. spencer said,

    May 7, 2008 at 14:15

    Some reaction to Hillary being pilloried is the same as the Bush dead-enders. Their hero comes up with a stupid plan. It is called stupid. Then they say “do you have a better plan? let’s hear it!”

    The answer to these people (applies equally to Bush supporters and Hillary fans – and, in theory, to Obama fans as well) is to simply say that doing nothing will have preferable results to what they are proposing.

    Sometimes this will get them to think for a minute. Sometimes not. But it’s the best response I’ve found so far.

  294. 4jkb4ia said,

    May 7, 2008 at 16:28

    I could probably get two decent Shabbos meals out of $30 if I tried really, really hard to save money. I could get two chickens and some rice. Preparing the vegetables would probably mean going to the farmer’s market.

  295. 4jkb4ia said,

    May 7, 2008 at 16:31

    Yes, on the Lower East Side people probably used much less than $30 even accounting for inflation.

  296. 4jkb4ia said,

    May 7, 2008 at 16:43

    Cooking with fresh vegetables is considerably more expensive than cooking with meat

    I know! Even keeping kosher! I think it is an artificial subsidy for meat.

  297. 4jkb4ia said,

    May 7, 2008 at 16:51

    OK, Lambert, pointing out that not every populist program designed to help the poor actually helps the poor is not a “Fuck the poor” attitude, no matter how disingenuously it has been used by right-wingers in the past. Now I will go back to ignoring you.

  298. 4jkb4ia said,

    May 7, 2008 at 16:55

    Under the best of circumstances, this helps the rural poor more than the urban poor, because the rural poor need cars to get almost anywhere. You may remember all the people in New Orleans who couldn’t evacuate because THEY DIDN’T HAVE CARS. OK, now.

  299. ahem said,

    May 7, 2008 at 23:23

    Late to this:

    Obama’s used his support of the state tax holiday to explain his opposition to the federal holiday. It didn’t work when Illinois did it.

    The $30 is the estimate for the entire ‘summer driving season’ holiday, from Memorial to Labor Day. That’s assuming a $600 spend on gas for the entire season.

    And yes, there’s a problem when people treat food as a discretionary budget item.

  300. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    May 8, 2008 at 2:45

    there’s a problem when people treat food as a discretionary budget item.

    I’m not sure if that’s what you meant, ahem, but I’m posting it anyways.
    ~

  301. Doctorb Science said,

    May 8, 2008 at 4:42

    That needs a better title, like “Katherine Harris (right) holds possum (left)”.

  302. Fast Eddie said,

    May 8, 2008 at 6:13

    You were lucky to have stairs! I had to get up at 10?clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, regurgitate six fluid ounces of generic pork and beans for resale to the dollar store, strangle myself with the extension cord and salvage loose parts from the broken hot plate to boil in subsidized ethanol to prepare a weak cup of tea that Barack Obama would throw in my face each evening before ritually mutilating my genitals with a razor-sharp Kusha knife while ululating wildly to savage songs celebrating the enslavement of American heartlanders!

    OK, I know I’m late on this, but this is very nearly the funniest goddamn sentence I have ever read. Well played.

  303. Sadly, No! » Maybe Lambert & Crew Can Answer Me This … said,

    May 8, 2008 at 6:29

    [...] think I pissed off Lambert and the Corrente crowd over the Ramengate post. I’m pretty sure I made my new pal Shystee uncomfortable. For that I apologize – it’s [...]

  304. Daily Links said,

    May 8, 2008 at 20:32

    [...] Sadly, No! » Ramengate Comes To A Boil (tags: hillaryclinton barackobama classwarfare) Share This Close [...]

  305. Sadly, No! » Terrific said,

    May 22, 2008 at 3:24

    [...] stuff. I, for one, am looking forward to living off an all-ramen diet, with the occasional package of Soylent Green for [...]

  306. The Art of the Possible » Blog Archive » Who Will Rid Us Of This Turbulent Bernie Mac? said,

    July 14, 2008 at 20:52

    [...] You laugh your fucking ass off, that’s what you do. And stop asking questions. And go back to subsisting on uncooked Ramen (minimizes the gas/electric bills + chewing raw noodle is a terrific way strengthen your tooth [...]

  307. Schedule said,

    October 30, 2010 at 1:00

    You you could make changes to the page title Sadly, No! » Ramengate Comes To A Boil to more catching for your content you write. I loved the blog post even sononetheless.

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