What A Difference A Day Makes
Over at Neocon-mentary’s craptacular blog “Contentions,” the preposterous Jennifer Rubin is (once again) playing “Heads I win, tails you lose” with Obama, which has pretty much been the favorite parlor game of neocons this campaign season.
Yesterday: “Heads, I win“:
Not many pundits think it was smart of Barack Obama to try to lock in his position before going to Iraq. … If he wants to prove the critics wrong, he’ll ask some real questions of commanders on the ground and the Iraqi leaders. Then he’ll use that information to seriously re-examine the policy fantasyland he has constructed for himself.
Today: “Tails, you lose“:
We have been wondering how Barack Obama would get by overseas with unscripted moments, in new settings to which he is unaccustomed. I think I have it: he isn’t going to speak in public unless it is scripted. Today from Afghanistan: “I’m more interested in listening than doing a lot of talking.” … It could be percevied [sic] as having to handle topics he is ill-equipped to opine upon, with no teleprompter. … In other words he’s there to look around and take some pictures to show back home. Is he on a tourist visa?
If Obama says anything about Iraq, before he goes over there to ask questions, Obama is criticized for constructing a fantasyland for himself. Then when he goes over to asks questions and listen to the answers rather than talk, he’s “on a tourist visa.”
It goes on and on with these people.
If Obama doesn’t wear a flag pin, he’s an unpatriotic terrorist. If he does wear one, he’s an insincere political manipulator.
If he admits that his father was a Muslim, he’s the “the first Muslim President.” If he says that he’s not a Muslim but a Christian, he’s kicking a billion Muslims under the bus.
Aarghh. If I could just set the flux-capacitor to November 5, 2008, I would in a heartbeat, just to make all this stop.
It’s all they got.
We should not begrudge them their sophistry.
You think it’s going to stop?
Obama will likely have the same issues as Clinton, with a well-funded oppo research operation making up whatever they can. At long last, have they no decency? Signs point to no.
It would interesting to have people like the loon quoted above try to justify those contradictory positions on camera, though they would have to be prepared for an exploding head or three.
Not many pundits think.
I agree with the douchebag on this point.
It’s ALL Obama’s fault. Everything.
It’s ALL Obama’s fault. Everything.
Yes, it is. And that’s because he’s inexperienced at running a company (into the ground) and he’s never been (hidden in a series of laundry hampers to avoid being) in the military, like the current codpiece in chief.
I think it’s time we all acknowledge Obama’s failed presidency.
Jeezus, I don’t like to be all sexist and stuff since I’m no venus de milo but where on earth did you get that picture? Its truly frightening. Almost as frightening as her prose stylings.
aimai
Plus, I’d like to point out that Obama’s jedi mind control is so strong he neither has to listen, nor speak, since he has forced Maliki to endorse his entire 16 month pull out strategy without even going to Iraq.
My comment over there, in case it gets dissapeared:
This is truly hysterically funny. Do tell me, how many times George Bush visited Iraq before invading? But look, this is simply childish of you Jennifer. As a US Senator Obama has a duty both to get the facts, and to avoid stepping on current US policy as he does so. Whether he hears from the Generals what you seem to think he’s going to hear, that they have their widdle feelings hurt about whether the “surge” helped or hindered or not, it would be very bad form to make an controversial speech, or assessment of US foreign policy to Afghans or Iraqis. As he said, so very graciously, we have one president at a time and he isn’t going to interfere with President Bush’s current policy as a mere candidate for office.
Too bad all you have left is John “Bush’s legacy war” McCain. While JM Hanes says sadly that he can figure out what Obama will say in Denver, the rest of us have already heard everything McCain can ever say over the last eight years. We’ve seen this movie and we aren’t going to pay to sit through it again.
Oh, and about the “surge.” The surge was supposed to be a temporary application of a few thousand troops. How come we have 30, 000 more than we started and there are no plans to send them home? sounds like a major troop increase sold to the people as a mere surge. But hey, that’s ok, because Maliki says its working and they can all come home in sixteen months! Whaddaya know! Obama was right! Must be because there isn’t any top secret, super duper, cross your fingers and spit before you know it information to come out of Iraq. Its a war, not a surprise party. Oddly enough the facts are on the ground, and out there, for people who do their homework.
aimai
Obama’s “policy fantasyland?” You mean the one where we didn’t go to Iraq for oil, and were welcomed with flowers? Or the one where we don’t negotiate with countries like North Korea and Iran, like we’re doing now? These people are much better at irony than the New Yorker.
Please, Jennifer, please tell us how Maliki’s endorsement of Obama’s policy shows what a naif he is. Please tells us how McCain’s adoption of Obama’s Afghanistan policy shows that Obama was wrong the whole time.
Please, Jennifer, shut yer fekkin piehole awreddy.
If you think they’re screaming now, wait and see what happens should Barack Obama win the Presidency and Democrats increase their hold on Congress (possible, but no guarantee on either). They have not yet begun to scream.
And they will not be dismissed by the media. Once the news media find out that Barack Obama has not solved all the problems either created over the past 8 years or for that matter, ever, in the United States by 6 weeks in, he will be giant loser failure and they will gladly feature prominently for the next 4 years the bizarre complaints of a coalition of militia-style ‘OMG they’re coming to get my gunz’ nuts and whoever will lead the ‘Newt Gingrich II: The Contractening’ revolution.
Not this time. Read more, please. http://www.tagg-lines.com/2008/07/law-of-unintended-consequences.html
You’re the ones who nominated a hilariously under qualified candidate. Don’t blame us for pointing it out.
You’re the ones who nominated a hilariously under qualified candidate.
You mean the hilariously under-qualified candidate who seems to have found evidence of a light at the end of the tunnel to the war in Iraq? Or are you talking about the one that went to Iraq on a shopping spree?
#
American Hawk said,
July 20, 2008 at 0:09
You’re the ones who nominated a hilariously under qualified candidate. Don’t blame us for pointing it out.
You’re the ones who voted for a total failure two times, A(ss) H(ole).
Don’t blame us for point it out.
P.S. Your candidate has no legs
McCain: Where’s the rest of me???
Y’all might wanna be a tad careful celebrating a whole bunch about how Hahaha bush/cheney are suddenly negotiating with the evil Iranians and the whole appeasement thing is coming back to bite them in the ass.
It sounds to me like you guys have forgotten the attack other nations playbook. Bush and his uncle dick sure haven’t. So I’ll just point out that if you don’t have talks, talks can’t “break down” due to the belligerence and intransigence of the Iranians, you can’t explain to the Europeans and everyone at the UN that you TRIED diplomacy, but finally, when all avenues were exhausted, you reluctantly had to unleash your righteous armed forces and kill them all into submission.
I mean, you DO remember 2002, right?
mikey
mikey,
You are a real bummer.
Couldn’t you let us wallow in our Schaednfreude for just a day or two before hosing us off with reality?
Hmm. D’you suppose that’s why I don’t get invited to the good parties?
mikey
What’s gonna be interesting about this go ’round, though, is that the stuff we claimed the iraqis were doing would, if they were actually doing it, would actually violate actual agreements.
The stuff we insist the iranians stop doing and will kill them until they do (uranium fuel cycle research and enrichment through isotope separation) they are ENTIRELY and specifically allowed to do under the NPT (which, they *ahem* SIGNED, unlike our friends and allies the israelis), and are doing under monitoring by the IAEA.
So it seems to me that trying to explain why you had to kill them into stopping something they are entitled by international treaty to do is going to be a little tougher. But I have no doubt that cheney’s tough enough to weather the criticism…
mikey
Mikey brings up a good point. Another point, re: Obama, is that Maliki’s endorsement of his withdrawal plan might put him in an awkward spot. After all, McCain can now claim, rightly or wrongly, that “the surge worked”. Things have stabalized to the point where even Iraq’s leader is telling us to leave! See? The whole war was worth it after all!
That’s the spin I’m anticipating.
I’ve already seen it You er, Me, er, don’t confuse Me er You :KJFHB:LIU WEW:LKBJHFDC
I’ll start over.
Just today I saw some pinhead rightwanger who wrote “Yeah, but Obama wanted to pull out while we were still losing.” Or something like that. And I’m sure he didn’t realize the sin he committed but my point is, that’s already spinning.
mikey, why is IKEA monitoring Iran? They don’t have any good softwood forests there, do they?
Mikey, I think the fact that everyone remembers 2002 might be the only thing preventing Cheney from bombing Iran now. The entire fucking world remembers getting hosed in the runup to Iraq. Not that Cheney would let anyone get in between him and what’s good for his portfolio, but nobody is buying what he’s selling any more.
Well, Joe Lieberman is… Oh, the WaPo editorial staff probably is too…Then there’s the frothy wingnuts….
…we’re fucked.
Me. That theory only works if they had any actual “good faith” in the iraq invasion. Those of us who believe that the goal was an american military presence on the oil fields forever and ever amen are anticipating some other reason for those 150,000 troops to stay there.
If Maliki wants them gone, he may very well be “gone”. In a Diem sorta way if necessary. Of course, if they strike iran it will have the fortuitous fallout of causing heavy casualties in iraq, forcing america to dig in and stay because the political environment “on the ground” (are you as tired of the phrase as I am?) is “unstable”.
Or, they could merely decide that if Maliki wants it this way, HE can bloody well start paying the Sunnis (yeah, right), and when the funds dry up the insurgency starts up again. Or, a predator can whack al Sadr with a Hellfire, starting up the war with the Mahdi army again.
Lots of options. Easy to get in. Hard to get out. Especially if that’s not actually the goal…
mikey
I bet Trudy Rubin hates it when people confuse her with Jennifer.
I don’t know if speeding up to November 5th would bring any relief. I think an Obama presidency will be attacked in a way that will make what happened to the Clintons look like a love fest.
One thing you heard a lot of from the Clinton supporters was that she had already been tried by fire. What else could the rightwing do to her if she became president? They have a point, I guess.
On the other hand, the wingnuts got nuthin’ on Obama. If the crazy shit we’ve been seeing is the best they can do, it’s apparent that they have no better ammunition. Doesn’t mean they won’t keep trying, or that it won’t get even more hideous.
Pffft. We know you don’t want to miss the exact second the head of every fRightWinger in the new U.S.of African-America turns into a claymore mine.
I think it’s time we all acknowledge Obama’s failed presidency.
Naaah. After he wins, the neocons, the bigot panderers and all the rest will graciously accept defeat and join in support of our new commander in chief, right?
I’d say more, but Elvis Presley and the Easter Bunny are coming over for dinner, and I’ve got to get ready.
I thought that was a picture of Mick Jagger.
I thought that was a picture of Mick Jagger.
Too ugly.
mikey, if we attack Iran do you suppose there’ll be a draft in the US again?
The Iran-Iraq war supposedly killed ~1 000 000 people over 8 years. Both Saddam and the Iranian rulers viewed it as a convenient way to take care of a demographic bulge which otherwise would have been loitering around at home, unemployed and bitter.
If I could just set the flux-capacitor to November 5, 2008, I would in a heartbeat, just to make all this stop.
It will never end. It is the only game they have left. They have lost the battle of “ideas” (that’s what happens when you show up to a fight unarmed) and they know it. The American people are fed up with their bullshit and now all the rightards can do is kvetch and demean everyone else.
The conventional wisdom is trying to implement conscription is political suicide. Of course, the fourth ammendment used to be sacrosanct. So here’s what we all gotta do. We gotta scream the “conventional wisdom” from the highest treetops. A draft is political suicide. Entirely untenable. Keep saying it. Try to keep ’em believing it.
Actually, they KNOW they ain’t gonna occupy iran. They’ll have to put boots on the ground, don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. They’ll use a marine expeditionary force to take and hold the ground overlooking the straits of hormuz. They might well deploy an armored division to hold a buffer on the iran/iraq border. But they KNOW. More than they’re even saying, that it would take more force than we could deploy to roll on Tehran.
That’s the ironic thing. It’s all just cover for a strategy of “regime change”, and by attacking they are going to inflame the nationalist sentiments of a relatively homogeneous culture and cement the authority of the “mullahs” for a generation.
Satellite television, DVDs, the internet. That’s the way you do regime change. Kim il-Sung knows it. That’s why you can’t get in there. China knows it, and they know they are fighting a rearguard action against the twenty first century. Putin has it totally figured out. He’s essentially established a pact with the russian people. We’ll let you do what you want, own property, start businesses, make a living. We don’t care about controlling your day to day, and hey, if you can generate currency, we’ll support you. But here’s the other side. Don’t fuck around in politics. Don’t mess with the government, and don’t challenge our authority on economics. Period. Hey, everybody’s happy. In a way, it’s more freedom than we have here, ’cause it’s honest and on the table. Go here, don’t go there.
Ultimately, I think we’re seeing something seminal. We’re seeing the beginnings of the decline of the dominant political entity throughout history, the nation-state. Sovereignty is increasingly meaningless in a time when borders are increasingly meaningless, and nationalist movements are being replaced by ethnic and ideological movements. Wealth is power, and wealth is transnational. And we’ve certainly seen the limits of military power. Expensive and ineffectual. What MBA would want it?
mikey
They don’t need a draft, they’ll just destroy the economy and wait until people start to starve. People will sign up then.
I think it’s 2002 all over again also. And lo and behold, the pundits and papers are saying that Condoleeza Rice won and Cheney lost, which I seriously doubt. Why shouldn’t Bush and Cheney get away with it again? People still refuse to admit they deliberately lied about intelligence the first time.
they would have to be prepared for an exploding head or three.
Like a Gallagher show, you’d use tarps and give the front row plastic raincoats.
BTW, Mission accomplished:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/19/mccain-declares-we-have-succeeded-in-iraq/
You’re the ones who nominated a hilariously under qualified candidate.
Oh, I’m sorry. I was sure someone was referring to George W. Bush.
Not many pundits think…
Well, there’s the crux of yer problem, right there.
I think an Obama presidency will be attacked in a way that will make what happened to the Clintons look like a love fest.
Let’s hope he at least has the sense to keep it in his pants.
A draft! A DRAFT?!
You know what this would mean…a huge population increase for Canada. Bring it on!
In my mental movie, it’s a cross between The Boys from Brazil and The Manchurian Candidate.
Mad scientists genetically engineer a boy to grow up in an oppressive environment he can never fit into. (They also stir the flames of an anti-Darwinian movement, so no one can figure out what they’ve done.) Thus triggering deep seated rage and a strong mentality to join his oppressors.
He manages to get a complete idiot into the Presidency to destroy the political movement the idiot represents.
The big ending is when an intelligent African American becomes President.
I’m calling it The Karl Rove Story.
Just don’t know about the casting.
Obama gave a speech today to some troops stationed at a supply depot in Kuwait. He was greeted with a standing ovation, beaming faces, and repeated cheering during his remarks. The event was held in a gym where he nailed a 3-point basketball shot.
WHY DO THE TROOPS HATE THE TROOPS?
…policy fantasyland he has constructed for himself.
Project much?
Cue muttering about “Phony Soldiers.” Or perhaps fear of offending the scary brown man.
Hell, I’m sure one of the finger-sniffing bunch is working on a long opus about Obama’s ability to hypnotize the masses JUST LIKE HITLER AND THE ANTI-CHRIST!!!!
Hey! That’s MY idea!
I don’t know how “oppressive” Rove’s childhood was. But I do know for sure why he hates Democrats.
He had a Nixon sticker on his bike, and a neighborhood girl (about age 11) had a Kennedy sticker on her bike. He starts talking shit and she smacks his ass to the curb.
So the entire motive in his pathetic little life comes down to holding a forty year grudge over losing a fight to a girl.
mikey is on the right track. Recall that the PNAC motto was “Spread the chaos outwards.” The Iraq invasion was
planneda wet dream for years. War profiteering, plunder (oil), filling the pockets of the industrial military complex, that’s what it was about. And just because Dick and his PrezPuppet might be leaving their offices, the MI complex is firmly entrenched and all those people will, if not callingt the shots, at the least influencing them.Gah. Now I need to go slug down down some gin. Lots of gin.
BB, that’s an excellent anecdote. Never heard that before.
Nine years old? Wait, time out. Where’s that tard du fuq who said the young ‘uns ought to leave politicin’ to their elders?
I want him to take Karl over his knee and tan his hide.
Pulled Tough Mountain Goat with Barbecued Machines
Ingredients:
3 pinches outdated mountain goat, anonymously French
1 exemplary machine, buttered
1 crinkled light cream
3 portions duckbill eye, barbecued
4 sticks coffee
1 pound fat
Pick over the ingredients waywardly and discard excess glass. Place the mountain goat into a medium wok. Use a food processor to mix the light cream with the machine. Stuff the resulting potion into the mountain goat. Stuff – very caressingly – the duckbill eye, coffee, and the fat. Pile the latter combination on to the former. Abandon for 65 minutes. Serves 4.
There is also this, from the Rove family closet.
I don’t mean to pull you all into sammich land…but….
I’d never heard of her until lately and have to read her occasionally for occupational reasons, but if you have the fortune I had until recently and don’t have to do that: when she is in print her vanity photo has got to either be a work of photoshop mastery or the picture she uses is 30 years old and the devil beat her with the ugly stick for continously from now until until then.
Oh yeah. Mr. Karl he jes hated hated hated his faggety gay fag homo buttseks faggy dad.
Sez a lot about hium, yessirreebob.
PS – That Rubin thang she makes Steven Tyler look good.
PPS – That Rubin thang maybe IS Steven Tyler! In drag!
PPPS – on second thought, she’s got way too much meat on her to actually BE the Tyler.
Hey, Aerosmith, now.
Apropos of absolutely nothing.
ittdgy made me do it.
We have been wondering how Barack Obama would get by overseas with unscripted moments
Uh, su-u-u-re! Yeah, we know how the codpiece-in-chief always speaks, spontaneously and unscripted. Ri-i-i-ght!!!
In response to Candy at 1:19:
A conservative tried to play “Gotcha!” with me by pointing out an inconsistency on Rubin’s part. I had to admit, “Yeah, Rubin is an okay sorta-liberal writer, but she ain’t no Molly Ivins!”
He didn’t have an answer for that one!
We had a really good exchange the other day. He claimed that he didn’t respect Obama’s position on the Iraq War in 2002 because Obama didn’t have access to all the kewl secret information that Bush & Co did. I responded “Oh yeah, all that marvelous secret info like Curveball and the testimony of torture victims and the sources of Judy Miller, yeah right. Ya mean all that kewl secret info?”
That’s the ironic thing. It’s all just cover for a strategy of “regime change”, and by attacking they are going to inflame the nationalist sentiments of a relatively homogeneous culture and cement the authority of the “mullahs” for a generation.
Which we already did once before, 55 years ago. (Which I know you know, Mikey. I’m just running a highlighter over it.)
I wasn’t alive in 1953 but I do remember a few of its direct consequences: AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE!!!! and the key-shaped cake and the October Surprise. I can draw a line from 1953 to 2003, no problem. No credit to me; it’s all out there.
What really scares me is, the women in my family live for-fucking-ever. I really don’t want to be around to witness the fallout fifty years hence.
Wrong direction. Set it for November 2000. You’ll know what to do.
It’s ALL Obama’s fault. Everything.
Bubba’s glad to be off the hook – everything has been his fault for at least 15 years.
Gratuitous adding on…..
Due to this thread, I found this at Iran Chamber.com: