Hey, Walt, maybe you wouldn’t be on wingnut welfare in the CSA. Something about you, can place my finger on it…well, I just think maybe some good might have come out of the Civil War.
Something I’m sure.

He looks rather nice. Too bad about that lobotomy.

Walter E. Williams owes me $20!!

For years now I’ve wondered where the hell all of these “states’ righters” were when the SCOTUS told Florida it was voting for Bush.

see also, this story.

Like I’ve always said…Thomas Sowell, just without the complete lobotomy. Both have never met a breed of white racism they didn’t want to promote.

Well, maybe all of the reichtards will now move to Oklahoma. Sorry OK Sadlys, but I’m prepared to give up the entirety of that state if that’s where they choose to create their wingnut paradise.

Well, just because he’s talking about State’s rights doesn’t necessarily mean he’s talking about racist segregationalist policies. In fact this is really all about keeping the Mexicans out and has nothing to do with black people. How can you call that racist?

gawddamn it. I can never say I’m from Oklahoma again.

But doesn’t this make the Oklahoma legislature wingnutty, for passing the resolution 92-3?

One of the unappreciated casualties of the War of 1861, erroneously called a Civil War

It was actually the War of Northern Aggression.

It’s just an excuse for Sowell to demonstrate he’s old enough to recall the “Sagebrush Rebellion,” which still gives right wingers stiffies today.

Well, maybe all of the reichtards will now move to Oklahoma. Sorry OK Sadlys, but I’m prepared to give up the entirety of that state if that’s where they choose to create their wingnut paradise.

Gee, glad you said “sorry” before you were willing to write me off. Mary Poppins was right about that spoonful of sugar! Those of us in Oklahoma with a chronic case of red state blues are sorry, but you can cram it with walnuts, ugly.

Now we’re both sorry.

“But doesn’t this make the Oklahoma legislature wingnutty, for passing the resolution 92-3?”

Not necessarily. While the impetus for the bill was almost definitely some election year messkin scapegoating, I have zero problem with poorer states calling bullshit on unfunded federal mandates. Catch a clue about what NCLB is doing to the school systems in those states that some are so quick to abandon to dominionists and randroids.

For the greater good, GoatBoy. For the greater good.

Re cleek’s link. The posters are right. That would make a hell of a 6th Seasion for The Wire.

I’ve heard it’s quite shitty what’s going on with NCLB, a friend of mine taught in New Mexico and moved to OK for a better teaching gig.

I’ve read the text of the resolution, and it warms the bowls of my libertarian heart that someone is calling BS on the feds and that it’s peeps from my home…but damn! There’s some wingnutty people there, considering that this started because the bigots there wanted to kick the mexicans out.

LOLOL – I almost stopped at “the War of 1861, erroneously called a Civil War”, but thankfully pushed on to read Dr. Clayton Bigsby’s account of those sages in the Oklahoma House…

I find something positive in this kind of conservative retrenchment: When these idiots – this one, for instance, the economist moonlighting as a mongerer of alternate histories – have only an abortion of a protest bill in the Okie House of Reps to brag on, that’s something to celebrate.

Hey, I’ve had to deal with these pinheads my whole life. How about we ship ’em all to wherever Legalize lives, where they’re likely to be more properly marginalized?

That sounds a hell of a lot more fair.

Dude, it’s a joke. I’m up to my elbows in wingnuttery in my part of Jesus Land too.

I clicked on the link to the article, and as soon as the page loaded, it tried to redirect me to some trojan horse site.

Oh well. If you can, look for “C.S.A. — The Confederate States of America” on IFC. In the form of a San Francisco TV station broadcast of a “British Broadcasting Service” documentary, it tells the story of the history of slavery in North America after the South won the war, captured and hung Lincoln, annexed the North and expanded legal slavery.

If you’re a fan of “contrafactual historical fiction”, it’s a lot of fun.

“Dude, it’s a joke. I’m up to my elbows in wingnuttery in my part of Jesus Land too.”

After almost thirty years of this shit, it ain’t so funny.

GoatBoy, I ask this with complete respect and no implication that you are to blame for your environment: have you ever thought of moving? You seem very unhappy where you are. I grew up in the Ozarks and I ran like hell to get out of there. If living in a city isn’t your thing, there are pockets of rural liberalism in places like VT and CA.

After almost thirty years of this shit, it ain’t so funny.

Right you are, GoatBoy. I’m pretty sick of the Heartland bashing shit, myself. A stereotype is a stereotype, whether it be “lazy welfare blacks too stupid to get out of New Orleans pre-Katrina” or a bunch of “dumb shit kickers”, as Iowans and others hit by floods and tornadoes were referred to a few threads down.
It’s ugly. Find another way to insult the fReichtards.

Right, no more insulting the Heartland.

Want to establish some ground rules for how we should insult the pricks, Candy? Cause I’m damned certain every other option is going to offend someone.

That’s why we call it the heart-land, because the brain isn’t here.

Leon, use your imagination. But I think generically lumping people into a group that fits your prejudices is not exactly a good idea generally, is it? We’re supposed to be the folks who don’t do that, right?

Williams, professor of economics at George Mason University:

A civil war, by the way, is a struggle where two or more parties try to take over the central government.

This would be a specific variation on civil war, which more broadly and properly defined would be a belligerent conflict between citizens of the same country. From the general to the specific, Professor Williams, or from the specific to the general. Either way is fine, but please don’t claim one is the other.

That Washington Monthly article linked to by cleek is some seriously fascinating stuff.

If it matters. Just for the electronic historians of future generations…

In truth, I think much of the hostility toward the whole “Heartland” concept is more a reaction to the right’s relentlessly pushing it as “The Real America” for so many years. I can certainly understand why they do this, since those are the only states they have a prayer of winning anymore.

But you’re correct, of course. Calling everyone from the flyover states shitkickers and idiots certainly isn’t likely to win their votes back.

Sure, let Oklahoma take all the wingnuts- they already took my basketball team, SOMETHING positive should come from that.

We are? When did I sign up for that game-plan?

I mean, shit, there’s probably a good Republican out there somewhere, sleeping under a hill or some shit. Should I not lump that poor sot in with his fascist brothers and sisters because my god, it’d be so prejudiced to do that!

In sum, fuck these fat, ugly, shit kicking, cock-worshiping Heartland Republican mongoloids and fuck their precious feelings. If they want to be treated as unique individuals, then they should stop looking and sounding like the same brain-dead shit-vomiting halfwit.

I’m very sorry if you happen to live in the same location as them! I do, I’m certain plenty of us at Sadly, No! live in close proximity to one or more (some are even in our homes as we speak). Fuck ’em anyway. May they choke on their own spunk and rot into the soil, thus serving the only useful contribution their lives may ever have.

Well, Leon, you sound just like the people you claim to despise. Good on you.

Just by the way, not a few of the folks in Des Moines – a strongly liberal city, by the way – were poor black people, and good Democrats. Are they dumb shit kickers, too? And calling people who’ve lost there homes, not to mention several lives, to natural disasters shit kickers regardless of skin color or political persuasion really doesn’t say much for you as a human being.

Obviously you’re a complete waste of my time.

“their” homes

Wow! This one is over the top even for Clownhall. Usually they like to at least make an effort to pretend they are not un-reconstructed pro-slavery folks. Is this Walter E. Williams fellow the real life version of Clayton Bigsby?

I couldn’t read anything past this statement: “One of the unappreciated casualties of the War of 1861, erroneously called a Civil War…” Then again I have a short attention span to BS.

I don’t know how Brad and Gavin read so much of this.

On the whole I think this site does a great job of walking that line between funny and ugly ridicule. Actually now that I think of it they don’t get that close to the line. But you do have the draw a distinction between oneself and the other in order to make a joke. Though there is a difference between laughing at specific individuals like we do here and laughing at an entire class of people. That makes me uncomfortable. Brad and the rest of them always hit the right note I think.

if the south had won, this guy would be picking cotton in Mississippi right now

so does he want to continue this conversation ???

Goodie for me, Candy! Yes, I sound exactly like them! Oh, when one looks into the abyss, one finds the abyss stares back out! Those who fight monsters, something about becoming a monster myself! A Beast I am, lest a Beast I do become!

And yet, I do feel sympathy for the strongly liberal city of Des Moines, jewel of the nation, great land, proud land, land of our forefathers. Location of many fine…. things, probably. And went to Gore in 2000 (still voted for Bush in ’04 though, that’s rough)! Yes, I am so ashamed for my prejudicial lumping, my own callous blindness to the great many things Iowa and its people can offer me.

Oh to rend and tear at my clothes! To chew salt and wear sackcloth! To wear the ashes of my ancestors in my hair and not eat or drink until I die of dehydration. I have gone against THE HEARTLAND.

Oh, how I have sinned! I did not think of the fact that the Heartland would have a city, indeed a major metropolitan area, wherein many, if not most of the state’s population of black people would reside, where indeed, many would be poor, and almost as if by magic, good Democrats all. Where they would make the state a jewel, a precious diamond in the rough-and-tumble Heartland, land of hopes, dreams, and opportunities.

Oh, how could I be so cruel, so unusual, to suggest the Midwest is full of shit kicking Republican tools? Why, it beggars the imagination to suggest such a thing. Haven’t I looked at DES MOINES, LIBERAL BASTION?

It seems that Leon Trotsky was also a drama queen. Who knew?

Lenin, probably.

After reading about two paragraphs, this popped up for me:

“This web site at xponlinescanner.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.”

Even the internet doesn’t want me reading this shit. Far be it from me.

(To clarify, I meant on townhall, not S,N!)

Responding to a derogatory comment about his home state, Goatboy wrote:

After almost thirty years of this shit, it ain’t so funny.

I hear ya bro. Why less than a month ago, someone wrote that my home state was so fucked up that everyone should leave immediately. Pretty tiresome.

(Sorry, I couldn’t resist the snark. I don’t really care that much – I’ve seen too much of it to be sensitive.)

Pope was an optimist. We also have proof that teh stoopid comes in all colors.

Where to even start, with the sad irony of this guy.

Strange enough to be a black conservative – to have your status come from being not just a token but an active fig leaf for the teeny white shlong of de facto conservative racism…

But then to be a black conservative intellectual – a *professor* – who almost certainly was helped into the Ivy League ranks by affirmative action – well, that’s Sad Strange Irony WTF level + 1.

And then to be a black conservative professor who:

a) claimes what started in 1861 wasn’t a Civil War, really because

“A civil war, by the way, is a struggle where two or more parties try to take over the central government.”

– !!!

I mean, what was Robert E. Lee’s invasion of the North and attempt to take Washington – an overly aggressive drive to sell tupperware?

b) uses “State’s rights” arguments to in essence say the wrong side won the Civil War – because it meant that states weren’t left to dictate their own domestic policies?

What was one of those policies? Something to do with a race of people a certain professor belongs to?

Something where people were bought and sold on an unregulated free market? (You know, the magical kind of market conservatives promise will solve everyone’s problems?) Starts with an “s”…

c) eagerly argues for states to take power back from the Federal government – because all the states with their Jim Crow laws did just great for their citizens, didn’t they?

Final SSI-WTF score: 4

Growing up trying to make it in a hostile environment can do incredible things to the psyche. Stockholm syndrome just scratches the surface.

Maybe I’m being too harsh. It could be he just wishes he had his own separate public restrooms. Since actual black conservatives are rare, maybe he thinks he won’t have to share it.

I just get filled with the urge to declaim. It’s just such…bad information, you know? So senseless.

I would sign up on clownhall just to tear it apart, but they’d probably delete it. I’d write him a letter, but he’s so dug in and justified it would almost certainly be a waste of time.

It is fascinating how much cleverness people can invest in rationalizing and defending stupid, destructive things. We all can do it.

My hope is that continuing destruction of ideas like this poor cat’s, will at least innoculate the young and innocent, and help the next generation of humanity.

The fact is, I look in the mirror and I hate myself.

Get Mr. Williams a History Lesson – & a mirror.

When a part of the nation tries to secede & the government of that nation violently opposes it, it’s called … yup … a civil war. CSA versus USA or Biafra versus Nigeria, technically they’re both civil wars. Much like the LIC in Iraq right now that nobody much wants to call by its rightful name. The day Kurdistan issues its own Declaration of Independance, that semantic shell-game will go down the drain.

There’s good & bad in any place … what gets my hackles up is when “just plain folks” start to think they’re The Chosen Ones, innately superior to all degenerate outsiders, because of where their parents bore them – be it the country, the region or the town/city they call home … that mindset is just a bit too “Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer” for me.

I think in the case of the mystical “Heartland” it’s at least as much a case of the Dems writing them off, as of them blindly craving more GOP cornholing, despite the socio-economic agony of the last 8 years … IIRC, some of their candidates have had the luxury of running for office unopposed by anyone with a “D” after their name. You’ll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Try offering them a better life for their kids & see what happens. They might just pleasantly surprise you.

“GoatBoy, I ask this with complete respect and no implication that you are to blame for your environment: have you ever thought of moving? You seem very unhappy where you are.”

Don’t get it twisted. I have dozens of family members (most of whom I can even stand) right here. And I do live in a city. The one that was teased with a good NBA team for two years before winning possession of a shitty one. There’s lots of surprisingly good people here. Just not enough to make a majority.

—

“I’m very sorry if you happen to live in the same location as them! I do, I’m certain plenty of us at Sadly, No! live in close proximity to one or more (some are even in our homes as we speak). Fuck ‘em anyway. May they choke on their own spunk and rot into the soil, thus serving the only useful contribution their lives may ever have.”

But nobody’s proposing sending you all of them.

—

“I hear ya bro. Why less than a month ago, someone wrote that my home state was so fucked up that everyone should leave immediately. Pretty tiresome.”

Knowing where I am from, how could you deny me the exercise of my native religion?

Betcha those Okies are gonna wish hard as hell for a strong set of feds when they run the fuck out of water.

Actually, GoatBoy, being from Florida I *am* getting all of them. When they’re old, even more conservative, and roiling in the depths of senile dementia.

So yeah, that’s where I’m at.

I tried that link and I got redirected to some weird PC anti-virus website. I think Townhall might be trapping incoming URLs coming from Sadly No.

I’d be more freaked out about virus infection if I wasn’t using a Mac…

Rep. Charles Key, the loon who sponsored this bill, peddles an OKC bombing conspiracy book and video. He just doesn’t have a mind for practical things it seems.

GoatBoy, I’m in Norman. Come on down and we’ll have a very small Sadlyfest.

And the OKC team makes playoffs within two years. Mark it.

I just thought – if ClownHall is deliberately redirecting people from Sadly No to a site that infects computers with viruses, isn’t that at least vaguely illegal?

If the South had been allowed to secede from the Union, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today.

You know, the guy’s got a point here. If it weren’t for that meddling asshole Lincoln, Walt would be working in a field somewhere like God intended instead of annoying his betters with ignorant spew.

Oh, and the redirect thingie isn’t really a virus – it’s scumware that tells you you’re infected with malware and offers to clean your computer for a price. Use ALT+F4 to close the windows (don’t click on them) and cancel the download when prompted. I doubt it’s anything the Clownhall people are doing on purpose because they’re not that smart.

>Stockholm syndrome just scratches the surface.

Too, too true – Among black people lying beyond the attractive field of thinktank blandishments, and no matter one’s socio-economic standing (I’m solidly middle-class suburban, myself), this rare synthetic species of “black conservative” is viewed warily, when at all. But I’ve noticed during this election cycle how lily-white MSM outlets (I’m thinking of MSNBC, but also CNN to some extent) have filled the barest quotas for diversity with these conflicted, selfish, greedy shitheads. The outsized representation in major media of crazy black Repugs talking in strangled voices out of the sides of their mouths about the virtues of The Market is fucking enraging. But, then again, it’s not my opinion that matters: there is a special circus thrill, I’m sure, in seeing Condi/Colin/Justice Clarence “I’m too butt ugly to get pussy without a law degree” Thomas et al. stand up and strangle themselves on command, like Private Pyle in Kubrick’s Full Metal Jacket…

Well said, Lawn Savant.

I am, like I suspect many others are here, a straight-up honkey. I can only imagine the surrealness of being Black and then seeing a Black man or woman putting forth these positions.

It’d be like Mel Brooks saying it wasn’t really “World War Two”, because Germany was really just defending itself against Polish aggression.

Maybe David Horowitz will do that one of these days.

Even shorter Walter E. Williams: “I for one welcome my old white overlords.”

I have zero problem with poorer states calling bullshit on unfunded federal mandates. Catch a clue about what NCLB is doing to the school systems in those states

You have a point. The Real ID Act is another crappy federal idea that’s burdening the states.

Walter Williams is still a tool, though.

Totally right re: NCLB and underfunded mandates in general. It’s just that “state’s rights” has nothing at all to do with the root of the problem – conservative idiots in power.

I’d almost think that NCLB was deliberately created to fail and undermine public schooling – but it’s just got the same earmarks as every single other Bush / GOP project of the last 8 years, and maybe 40 –

Apply ideology, ignore actual experts, kickback your pals, cut taxes for the rich, ignore feedback, clap harder, blame Democrats, run out the clock, repeat.

It’s like a 10 Step Program for assholics.

Candy says,

But I think generically lumping people into a group that fits your prejudices is not exactly a good idea generally, is it? We’re supposed to be the folks who don’t do that, right?

Um, no. You are a collection of professional students and boomer retreads that embarrasses itself on a daily basis with your attempt at teh funny. Scalding hatred and prejudice is your stock in trade, and I see nothing unusual about your commentary on this topic.

Needless to say, I support Oklahomans in their attempts to deal with the tsunami of unchecked Latino immigration, and I wish them well. Neither political party is willing to deal with this immense problem and it seems to be Oklahoma is calling them on it – bravo!

“It wasn’t a civil war. There was a lot of shooting. I call that damned uncivil.”

Oh Troof, you are astounding, really. “Scalding hatred,” sure, I’ll cop to that, but “prejudice”? No, because, you see, in the English language (a means of communication among, er, normal humans, that you may not be acquainted with), “prejudice” from the Latin “pre”, before, and “judice”, judgment, means “adverse opinions formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge.” [Webster’s 9th]

Our opinions of you and your racist, bigoted, ignorant ilk are derived from all-too-solid knowledge of your racism, bigotry, and ignorance — as freely expressed, here and all over the friggin’ media, by all of you.

I tried the link and my security system (Trend Micro) warned me within 20 seconds that Clown Hall was an “undesirable” site and to get off it immediately. In this case I complied.

I have little experience w/ Oklahoma, but what I do have confirms it’s the place of self-hating minorities. I moved to Louisiana and was in the merchant marine at age 20 (grew up in Chicago). At that time, I was violently attacked 5-6 x by co-workers because I refused to refer to black people as “nigger”s. (I didn’t even try to make it a political issue; just told them I was raised not to like that word and didn’t want to use it.) The worst opponent was a Native American guy (tho’ adopted and raised by whites) who was appalled at my lack of racism.

By the way, this was a lesson in Southern cultural practice. Once I learned to fight back effectively (my 3rd fight) and hurt my opponent as badly as I got hurt, they “respected” me enough to let me do as I pleased. I wouldn’t go back to that age or time, but live & learn.

Shorter this thread:

Oh noes! People indulge in hyperbole on the Internet!

Longer Brandi:

ZOMG! They’ve caught one of our tokens giving “State’s Rights” a hand job! Quick – to the Hyperbolexcuser!

Oh, Troof…more sadlyronically, it would appear you’re still stuck at stage 1 of the 10-Step dance. Although you may have cycled through the whole thing already, perhaps multiple times.

AnotherJim,

I’d like to respond but I’m still laughing uncontrollably after visiting the URI you linked to. Oh..My..God.

If you’re referring to the Washington Monthly article that Cleek linked to above, then yes – that is a big ol’ bucket of irony, that situation, isn’t it?

People of all political persuasions can certainly agree on that…

Don’t know if it was intended irony or not, but right now on the Townhall page there is to the left of Williams’ piece a link to a FoxNews (what else) video —

News
Oklahoma Asks Feds for Drought Aid
Watch Video

Screen grab, anyone?

A black man has no rights that a white man is bound to respect:

Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, 1836-1864

Scalding hatred and prejudice is your stock in trade, and I see nothing unusual about your commentary on this topic.

Needless to say, I support Oklahomans in their attempts to deal with the tsunami of unchecked Latino immigration

Poor Twoofy. All he wants to do is preserve the purity of the white race from the brown hordes and we do hateful, bigoted things like calling him a bigot.

Another Jim,

I’m laughing at your myspace page. Just…wow. It’s a joke, right?

Pedestrian, there’s nothing bigoted about being concerned about what massive illegal immigration is doing to this country. Why pretend that it isn’t Latino? You liberals were never big on honesty but this is mendacious even for you.

“It was actually the War of Northern Aggression.”

Actually, the War of Southern Stupidity.

Well, Trolly, you have me at a disadvantage, as I don’t see a website for you.

However, if you think that’s funny, you should see our budget, thanks to the party you vote for. That’s hilarious! And the hits just keep on coming.

URI now updated to reflect an early GOP budget meeting. Warning: not work safe. Such legislation rarely is.

“A civil war, by the way, is a struggle where two or more parties try to take over the central government.”

Every war of secession is, by definition, a civil war, even if not every civil war is a war of secession. Idiot.