I thought it was fine. And yet…

IF OBAMA LOSES, THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM WILL BE that it was because sleazy rightwingers portrayed him as a Muslim terrorist sympathizer.

When that happens, show ’em this New Yorker cover and remind ’em that The New Yorker is not generally regarded as a right-wing publication.

and

Yeah, I get that it’s satire. But, ya know, maybe it’s, um, a little ahead of its time, given that approximately half the country would forward this picture to a relative with the note: “Even the New Yorker thinks they’re black power terrorists!” without a trace of irony.

Nice to see my two favorite Mensas up and running on this. Sheesh.

I couldn’t agree more. But what is satire in New York City in Buttfuck, Arkansas it’s “well lookie here, ma!”. (When they see it all over Fox, CNN, MSNBC. Not many New Yorker subscriptions in Buttfuck.)

I get that it’s satire. But as to whether it’s good satire, I’ll have to disagree. After all, satire is like a joke. If it has to be explained, it failed. And this picture is having to be explained all over the intertubes. So, no, not meant to be offensive. But has fail written all over it.

Oh come on! You’d have to be some sort of NASCAR fan not to “get” that this is satire. Seriously, anyone who takes this cover seriously probably already believed that stuff to begin with.

Curious that they couldn’t squeeze in a bus in there, with grammaw, Wright, etc. ad nauseum falling under the wheels.

Or a toothbrush mustache.

My concern is that the New Yorker is pretty ubiquitous these days. It’s in magazine racks at the drug store and the airport, and there are a bunch of people paying little or no attention who are going to take it in without much processing. I don’t think it’s a problem for the people who get the joke, I don’t think it’s a problem for the wingers who are meant to be the brunt of the joke; its a problem for the squishy undecideds.

I thought it was pretty damn funny, like clear-the-air funny. If anyone takes it seriously, you can laugh at them too.

“It’s a–I say–it’s a joke, son.”(Aside) “Boy’s kinda slow.”

As someone who is from Arkansas but apparently not from BFE, I agree with satire. But we live in a time when every minute detail is construed into something larger and more grotesque than it was ever meant. So what happens to this cover when the media gets a hold of it? They tell you should be outraged, and they tell you that McCain disapproves as well. What is the electorate supposed to think? If it’s so bad that the honorable McCain disapproves, then it must be bad. Instead, McCain could have said, “Well, I disapprove of the images, but I understand and believe in its satirical merit.” Then again, he probably doesn’t approve of it because it attacks his hateful and pathetic base.

Regardless, I don’t know how Obama was supposed to handle it otherwise. What if he had embraced the cover and said, “This is what my opponents think of me, and I believe that this is accurate satire”? Can you imagine the firestorm then?

It might have been nice to have included some sign in the actual cartoon itself that it was, indeed, satire. I know a lot of New Yorker types, both insiders and readers, are highly full of themselves just for being involved with such a magical publication, but, no, I don’t think it would have diminished such a brilliant, astounding, earth-shatteringly insightful piece of art to, say, include the right wingers thinking such things with, maybe, a thought bubble.

I know it’s probably an insult for me to dare think that I, a mere mortal, could comment with unapologetic intent upon a New Yorker cartoon, which among the very heights of human intellectual achievement makes the realization of the simple machines by the ancient Greeks look like unplanned rocky outcrop, but there you have it.

If it had shown Rush Limbaugh twisting in his sleep with this exact image floating above his head, I would say WIN. Bonus points for a big wet spot spreading between his legs.

As it is, I’m not really offended, but I think it is a little flat-footed, especially as the cover.

Lee said,

July 14, 2008 at 16:06

I get that it’s satire. But as to whether it’s good satire, I’ll have to disagree. After all, satire is like a joke. If it has to be explained, it failed. And this picture is having to be explained all over the intertubes. So, no, not meant to be offensive. But has fail written all over it.

Yeah, I agree here as well. It’s like that DeBord op-ed article in the WaPo the other day: its absurdity is at the point of being extreme, yet it doesn’t have the wink of the eye from the author that its a joke, nor does it have the impossible absurdity to show that it’s a joke. “If it has to be explained, it failed” is a good way of putting it. Both of these are like telling your friends a long winded joke, and when you get to the punchline, they look at you with a puzzled expression and say, “I don’t get it.”

Fats Durston said,

July 14, 2008 at 16:11

Curious that they couldn’t squeeze in a bus in there, with grammaw, Wright, etc. ad nauseum falling under the wheels.

Or a toothbrush mustache.

Maybe they should have. That would’ve made it more obvious that it was a joke.

You know what it really needs? A train going past the window with a long line of cattle cars packed withwhite people en route to the reparations camps.

Yeah, good luck with that, Brad. You read the same idiotic background chatter as I do, so you know that this simple and effective satire is too subtle for the idiots (by which I mean, the majority) on both sides.

Not that moonbats and wingnuts are reacting as they do for the same reasons. Wingnuts predictably proceed in bad faith. Moonbats, meanwhile, are either incapable or unwilling to let the *good faith* of the satirist mitigate their (misguided) objections.

This cover is Onionesque. Which of course means that to stupid people, it’s offensive.

I guess I agree with the point that as it is this cartoon is to easily misrepresented by the rightards and the fact that it’s a joke could have been more effectively communicated. I still think it’s pretty funny though.

This cover is Onionesque. Which of course means that to stupid people, it’s offensive.

True story: When The Onion started doing it’s rightwing political cartoons i nearly wrote a long steaming email. Then my brain activated.

Disclaimer: The following is an example of Monday-morning quarterbacking.

I wonder if the satire would’ve been better if they’d gone even more over the top. Let’s say they had twin pictures of Osama and Che over the mantel, hammers and sickles and stars stencilled on everything, and pictures of Obama hugging Ahmadinejad. Toss in a few white people in chains doing some gardening (barely visible outside the window) along with pictures of Wright, his grandmother, and a few other people in the garbage can, and you’d be set. I’m thinking of the sort of cluttered, chaotic picture that you’d have to inspect for quite some time before you found everything.

Further disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about art or the production of magazine covers, so the foregoing may have been impossible.

Since I’ve been pulling a Jonah Goldberg in this post (i.e., commenting on topics I know nothing about and lacing those comments with so many qualifications as to render them meaningless), let me honor the Pantload by quoting him:

“What I find interesting about the New Yorker cover is that it’s almost exactly the sort of cover you could expect to find on the front of National Review. Roman Genn could do wonders with that concept. Of course, if we ran the exact same art, the consensus from the liberal establishment could be summarized in words like ‘Swiftboating!’ and, duh, ‘racist.’ It’s a trite point, but nonetheless true that who says something often matters more than what is said — and, obviously, that satire is in the eye of the beholder.”

So, uh, Jonah…what message *would* NR have been trying to send by using such a cover?

“What I find interesting about the New Yorker cover is that it’s almost exactly the sort of cover you could expect to find on the front of National Review. Roman Genn could do wonders with that concept. Of course, if we ran the exact same art, the consensus from the liberal establishment could be summarized in words like ‘Swiftboating!’ and, duh, ‘racist.’ It’s a trite point, but nonetheless true that who says something often matters more than what is said — and, obviously, that satire is in the eye of the beholder.”

Well yes, guys, that’s because it wouldn’t be satire for you — it’d be what you really believe.

Also, Michelle should’ve had a bigger ‘fro. Angela Davis’s was way bigger back in the day.

I’m glad I’m not the only person that immediately thought “Angela Davis” when I saw that.

That cover is funny as hell. Can’t those of us that can catch a damn clue get to have our humor, too? I don’t recall Mr. Lincoln saying “of the Retards, by the Retards, for the Retards”.

It might have been nice to have included some sign in the actual cartoon itself that it was, indeed, satire

You mean besides all the obviously satirical elements?

I don’t recall Mr. Lincoln saying “of the Retards, by the Retards, for the Retards”.

That’s because he was an elitist lie-brul who grew up in that elitist hotbed of rural Illinois.

I understand the concern about this being over people’s heads, but the terrorist-fist-jab is what makes it okay. For example, youtube commenters aren’t considered immune to satire, but here’s a comment thread for ED Hill’s shining moment of stupidity. It’s hard to find a comment from anyone there that doesn’t get it.

Are there some folks that aren’t going to get it? Yes. Is it naive to believe that that number is small? Yes. But most of those people aren’t going to vote anyways, and the few who are, loves them their JiSM3.

The real question is, when the average person receives this picture in an e-mail titled “Even the New Yorker thinks Hussein Obama is a terrorist flag-burner” how are they going to react to it? I have to thank E.D. Hill for the magic of the terrorist-fist-jab – it drains the credibility of anything associated with it.

There are way too many people desperately LOOKING for any excuse to feel insulted.

Its tragic really.

True story: When The Onion started doing it’s rightwing political cartoons i nearly wrote a long steaming email. Then my brain activated.

Man, those are great. Especially the surreal comparison of Mother’s and Father’s Day.

It’s kind of hard to admit to liking the Onion sometimes, but they’ve done some hilarious shit.

I don’t think this is gonna go over anyone’s head, largely because it’s too OTT for even the Sun or whatever the humorless Christer tabloid is called (the Weekly World News might run something like it, but come on) to push it in good faith. Assuming that it’s gonna fly over the Heartland’s head is malicious; he’s got more people active in the GOP machine-states (even Texas, fer fuck’s sake) than any Dem since 1964. They’re not stupid, just ignorant – and nobody could be ignorant enough to take this cover absolutely seriously.

And, incidentally, I like the hint at ‘Black Osama’, which is still my favorite epithet for the man. It’s similarly horribly OTT, although I wouldn’t be surprised if someone had used it in good faith.

Well, I thought it was pretty funny, and let’s face it, humor is the best way to deflate these rightwing windbags, in the “Sadly, No!” tradition.

But remember that amazing picture that blogger Billmon had a few years ago on his now-defunct blog, the one where he took a picture of the Nazi defendents in the Nuremburg trials and photoshopped all the Bush administration’s heads onto the bodies?

THAT would look really good on the cover of the New Yorker.

Looks like somebody read the fantabulous first post in this thread.

My only problem with the picture is that it’s not nearly black enough. Maybe p-shopping Lil Wayne in there with a big watermelon.

It needs more cowbell

Brad,

What is your beef against the right-wing?

Do you even know?

Or are you the typical liberal who has been fed hatred by musicans, actors, NPR pretend reporters and the Dan Rather crowd?

Democrats are the biggest control freaks on the planet. Except for sex and abortions, then desire to tell you every way to live. They are clever, however, and have carefully crafted a ruse in which the weak minds among us believe it is Republicans who desire to control everything.

And you believe them.

So anyway, why don’t you write out your list of wrongs that Republicans have supposedly committed. To make it easy, leave out the stuff done by both parties, such as smearing opponents (unless you are in the fog enough to never realize who Democrats created the smear machine – remember James Carville anyone?).

Afterward, I will return and shoot down your arguments one by one to demonstrate how, if actually an honest person who believes in freedom, you have been swindled by the Democratic Party and their press offices at ABC, NBC and CBS.

I’ll throw out the first pitch:

Which party was in power mostly when America went to war in the 20th Century?

Look it up.

Also, for those who have been taught to complain about Iraq, have you forgotten so soon Bill Clinton’s invasion of Serbia? Do you know why he invaded? Do you know that the UN opposed that invasion?

Do you know anything?

Um, wasn’t Obama a Muslim when at Islamic school in Indonesia? Or, were those doctored photos, and fake interviews with his former classmates I have read in foreign newspaper accounts?

I mean, I could care less, I would vote for anyone that holds the same things important that I do (like not allowing my government to spy on me without warrant, hint hint, or not being an old white man stuck on stupid like the vast majority of D.C, Pols), in fact, if they were not Christian, Jewish, or religious, it would GREATLY increase the chance I would vote for them.

So, reduce my ignorance and explain to me the satire here, please. He was, or still is a follower of Islam, and so there is no satire here, UNLESS the caption of the cartoon was “In Rush Limbaugh’s Dittohead’s Eyes….”

I think its worth noting that The New Yorker isn’t targeting an audience in rural Arkansas to sell magazines towards. Wingnuts will reach around corners to “prove” that everyone agrees with their wacky world view. So its no surprise that they’ll cling to the New Yorker as a defense in both their “Obama is a Muslim Radical Terrorist!” and “The Liberal Media is Racist!” memes without a shred of cognative dissonance recognition.

Ultimately, we’re looking at another modern Rorschach test. Crazies will point and be crazy. Everyone else will either proceed to not get the joke or get the joke and snicker if they think its funny.

Just keep in mind that this is the New Yorker and they aren’t exactly known for their amazing comical abilities, despite how hard they try.

Boy, we got some live ones here. This all sort of fits in with the “Our National Dumbness” post from a few days ago.

It’s satire, but it’s not particularly good satire.

For satire to work, it has to go well beyond what it is satiring, so as to be instantly distinguishable as satire. A lot of clever people on the Internet seem to think that merely saying the same thing as right-wing assholes is enough to qualify as satire.

Let me clarify this point: in 2004, you could have put together a similar cartoon mocking John Kerry’s service in Vietnam, which would have been equally detached from reality. And you could have given it to the Swift Boat Veterans, and they would have used it as propaganda. They would have ignored the fact that it was intended to be satire, since it would have suited their purposes very well.

And that’s the problem with this cover. Simply repeating the smears of the opposition party is not enough to distinguish itself as satire. Jonathan Swift’s famous “A Modest Proposal” succeeded because it was instantly recognizable as non-serious. If a reader has to puzzle out whether the satirist is serious or not, the satirist has failed.

I’ve seen a lot of bitching this weekend about how stupid readers are for not recognizing satire. The readers are not stupid. The readers are who they are. A good satirist has to know his audience, and make his satire recognizable as satire. Otherwise, it is without value.

He was, or still is a follower of Islam

Oh lord. Kill me now.

farang: Yes. You read the accounts wrong. So far no substantiated evidence has arisen of any active practice of Islam by Barack Obama while in Indonesia, outside the fact that Indonesia is a Muslim nation and all educational institutions will have some Islamic content and Islam-related activities.

I don’t think it works because it doesn’t make clear what it’s satirizing.

If in the right hand corner, there were someone wearing a Rush Limbaugh button (or something similar) looking at a TV showing the Obamas holding hands and the cover as now drawn was in a thought balloon coming from that person, it would be obvious that it was satirizing the right wing’s depiction of the Obamas. As it is now, it could easily be taken to be the artist’s view of the Obamas.

Imagine a cartoon labeled, “McCain appeals to the Republican base.” In it, McCain is on stage speaking to an audience that includes Klan members, Nazis, pigs in suits, etc. Would people take it to be a statement on McCain and the Republican party, or a statement on what liberals think of the Republican party? I think they’d take it to be the former, which is why the New Yorker cover doesn’t work.

Brad,
If you hadn’t been brainwashed by ABC, Dan Rather and Martin Sheen into having sex and abortions, you’d already known that.

It’s “satire,” but when you consider the mental acuity of folks of “Randal’s” ilk, “not so much.”

“– Um, wasn’t Obama a Muslim when at Islamic school in Indonesia? –”

No. He was a 2-year-old in a secular pre-school. The equivalent would be sending your kid to Montessori, and then being informed that he will forever be branded a born-again Evangelical. It’s about as overblown a controversy as you will ever hear and its rooted in exactly the same bullshit that gave us Swift Boat Veterans and “Al Gore Invented The Internet”.

Hey Brad,

Don’t you know? Everything Republicans do is good because they wear white hats! Its true! Look it up.

Also everything Democrats do is bad because they DON”T wear whites.

Look how many White Hats were worn during the 20th century and you’ll see.

Can you see anything??

You could write the words “wink,wink,” and stamp a large red “SATIRE” across the front and you would still have people believing that’s what those “racist liberals” really think.
On the other hand good liberals would continue to believe that the wingnuts are too stupid to understand, even with the explicit warnings of satire.

You just can’t win with some people. Now bring on the funny.

Ta da! Found it!

Here’s Billmon’s vision of BushCo in the Nuremberg docks which I was talking about above:

http://lipmagazine.org/ccarlsson/archives/smalltrial.jpg

It’s a classic!

Personally I’m looking forward to the cover of John McCain with a blanket over his legs in a retirement home reading Soldier of Fortune, and his wife out his window getting off her private jet and dripping with jewelry.

Wow, Randal and farang appear to be a very reasoned and serious individuals. As one of the most liberal members of this blog, I look forward to the high level of debate they will provide for all of us. Before Randal brought it up, I hadn’t really given much thought to who was president during, for instances WWII, nor his political party! Heck, at Randal’s suggestion, I had to look it up! Did you know that FDR was a Democrat?!

Jebus. The mag has an established history of precisely this kind of satire on the cover. Political fucking cartooning has an established history of precisely this kind of satire. Anyone whose political leanings are in any way affected by this cartoon is a fucking moron who voted for George Bush twice, provided they have the intellect to master such a difficult task as voting.
N btw, I’m pretty sure there was a Swift boat and Kerry cover. I’m too lazy to look it up, but goddamn people. Relax. Not every joke is thought of with you in mind.

” A good satirist has to know his audience, and make his satire recognizable as satire.”

Like to people that generally read The New Yorker?

I think that Randall wants to baptize you, Brad.

WHackwhacker,

Listen to your own comment.

You have no facts, no information, no insight, and no apparent wisdom, nor even kindness.

Rather, you level an insult against an ideological opponent who challenged the leftists on this board to actually cite any concrete reason for harboring such rabid animosity toward the right.

Now you can tell that lie to your lib (aren’t we all cool?) friends. You can tell it to your pillow. But we both know that insults have been the only reply so far, trying to be funny, hahaha, look at the dumb right-winger with no brain.

Must we operate in 2nd grade mode here?

Or are you willing to perhaps LEARN something.

I am a teacher. Be a student.

Or teach me what you know.

Enough of the insults. They are good for getting people interested in the conversation. Now as grown men and women, let’s get busy on matters of substance.

If you have none, then sit down and let another stand up.

Justify Torture for me Randal?

Thank you, Brad, for the breath of fresh air.

I think it’s a brilliant cover–wickedly funny and spot-on in its skewering of the many ridiculous rightwing smears against Obama. But then, I’m English, and we tend to enjoy seeing the ridiculous being ridiculed.

Because, really, the ridiculous deserves to be ridiculed. It’s the only way to treat the ridiculous.

I appreciate that the dumbassed contingency wouldn’t get it, but surely, by now, those folks have recruited just about everyone they possibly could; they think what they think and say what they say, regardless of such minor considerations as truth and reality. I don’t see how is mocking all that is going to increase their numbers.

Come on!

Let’s hear its making you feel SO safe?

Why so many lies to start a war Randal?

Who was saved?

What will VICTORY IN IRAQ look like Randal?

DO YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING CLUE??

Legalize,

Congratulations, you looked up one war, one president.

How about the rest?

Democrat – WWI
Democrat – WWII
Democrat – WWII, the final years
Democrat – Korea
Democrat – Gave away China to communists
Democrat – Gave away East Europe to communists
Democrat – Vietnam

Seeing a trend here?

Do you even know that Clinton invaded Serbai against UN wishes?

Do you have any idea his rationale?

Do you remember all the congressional hearings seeking proof for his claim of a need to invade Serbia? Right, there were none. Never wonder why?

So, my fine and smug liberal, do tell us what you know. Tell us how Republicans have destroyed your freedom.

Please don’t start with wiretapping until at least learning that wiretapping went on during the Carter and Clinton adminsitrations well before Bush.

Man, who died and left this guy the substitute homeroom teacher?

“I am a teacher. Be a student.

Or teach me what you know.”

I am rubber. You are glue.

ZOMG! Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat!!!11seventeen!! Did you guys know this?

owlbear1,

You have no proof that Bush lied even one time.

So we are on level ground, it should be known that I opposed the Iraq invasion, along with thinking Bush is a disaster of a liberal Republican president.

Being against him (from the start) has not blinded me to the lies of the leftist media though. They hate him because he opposes abortion and dares to talk about God, and mean it. They hate him because he doesn’t believe in a world court run by humanists know-it-alls. So even though GW is quite a liberal, that is hardly far enough for the leftists media elite.

Anyway, if lying bothers you, then begin worrying about the 8 years of Clinton, the last year of Hillary, virtually every word from Charles Schumer, Michael Moore, Pelosi, Feinstein.

It is comical farce to hear that lying bothers committed Democrats. For their entire party exists because of lying to voters about their desires for godless world socialism.

Randal, to joust with you is a waste of everyone’s time on this site. Enough said.

If a Democratic president is responsible for us being in WWII and all things Democrats do are bad, then is Randall arguing that fighting the Nazis was a bad thing?

WordPress are the real racists. But I digress.

The cover is perfect the way it is. Sure, for some people it’s reality and that can’t be helped. Putting it on the cover shows that worldview up for the cartoon it really is, so nobody could possibly take it seriously. It’s a bit of rueful gallows humor. (Note to Jonah et. al.: You only get to indulge in same if you’re standing on the gallows. Life is so unfair, isn’t it?)

The mock tableau is direct and to the point. Throwing in extra details weakens it. Putting it in side a wingnut thought balloon just telegraph’s the joke, like a rimshot before the punchline.

Legalize said,

July 14, 2008 at 17:34

ZOMG! Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat!!!11seventeen!! Did you guys know this?

Again, you bring nothing to the table aside from smart a** comments that will make your lib friends think you’re funny.

I asked for a list of supposed wrong committed by Republicans that stand out from the wrongs committed by Democrats.

Waiting…

Must we operate in 2nd grade mode here?

I am a teacher. Be a student.

Ok, teacher, I’ll be good now. Just go ahead and sit down in your big soft cushiony chair. That’s it. Easy does it.

THPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPLLLLOOooooooooo!!!

AHAHAHAHAHA YOU POOPED!! HE POOPED HIS PANTS, IT IS TOO FUNNY FOREVER!!!!

And weren’t the Vietnam and Korean conflicts battles against godless communists? Jesus, I am so confused.

Randall isn’t the best parody troll.

Would there be ANY point in giving a link to the Senate hearing on the matter?

Randal, Clinton “Invaded” Serbia to stop a brewing genocide. He dropped tinfoil on power stations and leaflets. ZERO US forces died!

I’ll give you this Randal, Both parties do many of the same bullshit things, but Republicans ALWAYS fuck up the job…

Randal,

“What is your beef against the right-wing?”

Other than starting off this administration with secret “Energy meetings” with corporate oil CEOs, dividing up Iraq in March 2001? Golly gee, what brilliant “foresight” on Cheney’s behalf……

Other than giving the top 5% income earners multi-billions in “tax cuts” (90% of which went to the top 5% income earners) and immediately throwing the balanced budget from the black (with a 150 Billion dollar surplus) into the red with another Trillion in debt loaded upon us in 7 short years?

Other than cutting the interest rates 8 times in 2001 AFTER RAISING them 8 times in 2000 (in an attempt to make the Clinton/Gore administration’s economy not look as GREAT as it was, or would you like to extol today’s economy for us?) , virtually guaranteeing a Wiemar dollar effect? Creating a housing bubble AND having NO oversight from regulating authorities, in fact, as criminal conspirators in the theft?

Other than receiving a written warning from your Security Adviser on “bin-Laden determined to attack America” then going on vacation?

Other than paying (and getting caught three times) fake reporters to propagate your propaganda?

Other than having the right-wing former Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, taking a $400,000 bribe from the ATC, a cover of Mossad?

Other than having your future UN Ambassador physically disrupt the recount in Florida in 2000?

Other than warrantless spying on Americans?

You ask, “Which party was in power mostly when America went to war in the 20th Century?”

Well, for WWII, it was the Democrats that responded to Pearl Harbor, what are you trying to allege here? That we are war mongers for defending our shores from foreign counties attacking us? If by Vietnam, I recall a Star and Stripes article stating the Eisenhower administration had sent “military advisers” into “Indochina” circa 1959.

So, what’s your point here? Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, what BRAVE FELLOWS you right -wingers are to invade such POWERHOUSES.

Yes, I do recall Clinton’s BOMBING of Serbia, not invasion. We did NOT invade Serbia. I opposed that bombing action, like I opposed Clinton carrying Bush1’s NAFTA nonsense into law.

Why? Because unlike the right-wing goose steppers, we “Liberals” don’t need Rush Limbaugh telling us how to think.

Didn’t your elementary school teachers learn you anything about generalizing and being specific, Randal? Appears the answer is no.

You’re dismissed. I’m tired, and the list is endless why I abhor you republicans (and your democratic party allies).

FDR started WWII?

Do you even know that Clinton invaded Serbai against UN wishes?

Do you have any idea his rationale?

Do you remember all the congressional hearings seeking proof for his claim of a need to invade Serbia? Right, there were none. Never wonder why?

Sorry, sport, but history is written by the winners. As in, the winners who put the kibosh on ethnic cleansing and gave some measure of stability to a region that had historically had none.

That’s what the US did under Clinton. That’s what Bush & pals said we’d do in Iraq, but Sadly…

But kudos for going old school, harkening back to the age when conservatives found no fault in one’s patriotism even when they were bashing the executive branch.

“Again, you bring nothing to the table aside from smart a** comments that will make your lib friends think you’re funny.”

Uh, ya think, Poindexter. Besides what kind of adult bleeps out the word “ass”? Fuck. Tits. Shit. Fuck.

Matt T,

Fighting the Nazis should have been left to the European socialists. Furthermore, it was a strategic blunder to go in when we did rather than allowing Hitler and Stalin to tear each other apart first.

We actually got to see why FDR wanted in when, at the conclusion of the war, our precious liberal Democrats handed the murderer Stalin a bunch of states in East Europe. Fifty years those people suffered under communism until the hated Reagan dared to call them evil and compete on such a level as to make them broke.

Gee, isn’t that convenient? Enter the war as Hitler is invading the communist monster, then hand them more states than Hitler ever wanted at the war’s conclusion. I see a pattern there. A Democrat then handed China over to communists.

Kind of suspicious.

Do you think the communist paradise was worse than what Hitler would have brought?

Do people even know why Germany invaded Poland?

“FDR started WWII?”

I know. Randal taught us that. He’s a teacher!

Do you think the communist paradise was worse than what Hitler would have brought?

So you have no problem with all the dead Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and other of Hitler’s “undesireables”, then? Doesn’t matter who’s ground up so long as communists aren’t in charge, then? Gotcha.

Do people even know why Germany invaded Poland?

For the sausages?

Legalize,

Go back to your marijuana, video games and cartoons. Come talk with me in a few years if per chance you may have by that time actually picked up a couple of history books and begun learning things the NPR actors leave out of their daily feedings for the lazy lib mind.

By the way, I sympathize. My early years left me a proud, ignorant, sincere liberal until finally having my ears opened and actually becoming willing to hear what the other side had been saying.

Brainwashing really works. So does de-programming.

Fighting the Nazis should have been left to the European socialists

Why do parody trolls think that just saying real stupid shit is funny?

A Democrat then handed China over to communists.

Really? You mean some represenatives of the Red Menace went up to Harry Truman and said, “Look here, you piano-playing imperialist pig. We want China. All the bits of it.” And Truman just went “Okey dokey”, and no one asked the Chinese what they thought about all this? So you’re saying Mao Tse-Tung was in all actuality an agent of the International Democratic Conspiracy?

Oh, right, I should have recognized it — someone‘s been reading & internalizing Buchanan’s book about Churchill and WWII.

Hilarious, Randal. Have you guessed the reason why you’re getting nothing more than juvenile pointing and laughing? Let me know when you’ve actually set foot anywhere ethnic conflict has occured. Let me know your experince doing refugee intake and interviewing. Until then, kindly get fucked. 🙂

Q: How many leftists does it take to screw in a light bu–

A: That’s not funny!

I once figured out the secret meaning of all of history. It was a lot of work, because everyone who has any power and influence was trying to hide it from me, but I discovered it anyway one day when I was sitting on the shitter.

I wrote it all down on the internet but WordPress ated it. Fucking WordPress.

I was particularly taken with Michelle Obama’s natural.

“Fuck a Perm,” by The Coup:

Apply three drips, rub softly with your fingertips
And even though you flipped, don’t trip cause now you’re, hip
And now you slick it, you grease it and you lick it
and you’re lookin’ really wicked but your hair is now called good
You moisturize and texturize and relax-ize and civilize it
but yo I got a ‘fro, so a bro’s misunderstood
Kitchen in the back, give me dap I got a knapsack
Knick knack Patty’s wack, cause in her mind it’s firm
that straight is in and out is black
cause black went out with tenement shacks
but beauty is a natural fact so I say, “Fuck a perm!”

http://tinyurl.com/Fuck-a-Perm-mp3

Can one use font tags here? I saw someone with italics.

Legalize,

Again, you are operating out of ignorance and insulting smugness.

I am merely trying to help the misinformed get a clue about how they have been getting lied to by their sources of information. I am an informed person who studied the whole mess for the last 20 years.

I have written a book entitled Why Liberals Believe So Many Dumb and Dangerous Lies It is unpublished, though I would send over the first chapter to any liberal willing to read stuff other than Michael Moore’s fictional works.

At any rate, when it all comes down to it, we are left with the lead a horse to water story.

A teacher comes along… you either recognize an opportunity to learn, or stand there and think you know everything, rejecting what he has. Your choice.

Matt T, I guess you have never heard of the Nationalist army of China, and how we sided with them against the Communists. Few have. And then Truman cut off arms shipments, allowing the Soviet-supplied Chinese communists to steal that entire country.

Anyway, I need to get busy with my morning. Got a website of my own to run. Plus a friend and I are starting a business. Some of y’all will continue talking me down after I leave. That could make you feel good about what you see as your own superior position. If you wanna truly learn though, I recommend droping the media engendered antipathy toward conservatives and actually begin hearing what they have to say.

Remember the keyword though: conservatives, of which GW has no place, nor McCain.

Fighting the Nazis should have been left to the European socialists

Okay, this line tells me he’s either a parody troll or some kind of h8ter of the vdork variety. Nothing to see here.

Sometimes I actually wish some real fRighty would come along who would be worth Sadly commenters’ time. I’m coming to the conclusion – long a working hypothesis – that there simply are no smart wingnuts.

Leaving without answering any of my questions Randal?

What a surprise.

Anyway, I need to get busy with my morning. Got a website of my own to run. Plus a friend and I are starting a business.

Heh indoodily!

Randal- A hint. Your first step toward debating with liberals should not include, among other things, a friggin defense of Hitler’s invasion of Poland.

I think their lips are too small and there’s not nearly enough watermelon in the drawing. Plus, no one is dancing.

Remember the keyword though: conservatives, of which GW has no place, nor McCain.

Dude, if the rest of your book is as sloppily written as this, I’ll pass on it, thanks. Still, it makes me wonder just how big a whackadoodle you really are if Bush and McCarin aren’t “conservative” enough (if, of course, I’m drawing the right conclusion from your gibberish). I bet the thought of a black president just fills you with seething rage, doesn’t it?

Legalize said,

July 14, 2008 at 17:53

Hilarious, Randal. Have you guessed the reason why you’re getting nothing more than juvenile pointing and laughing?

No guess required. I have argued with liberals before. 99 percent of them have no knowledge whatsoever except the vague feelings of needing to hate consrvatives that have been implanted in them by Chris Matthews, Micheal Moore and a large bunch of talented liars who are permitted time on the pretend-news networks.

So the professional liberals are trained at lying. The amateur liberals (like yourself) have no training. Furthermore, you aren’t lying either. Your only issue is that you believe the liars. But you have no facts to back up your beliefs. So your entire argument is based on making fun of the opposition.

And that works in your mind because the professionals have trained you to believe that conservatives are lying anyway. So you just reject all the facts offered by conservatives as commanded, then shoot back schoolkid insults because there are no liberal facts to justify the hatred.

Where did this stupid ass idea come from that in order for satire to be effective or even to qualify as satire that it must be obvious? Some of the funniest Jon Swift posts I’ve read include some overly literal liberal throwing a fit in the comments. If anything this cover isn’t very funny to me because it’s too obvious.

Randal puts me in mind of Kevin. Long comments crammed with a smarmy, arrogant assumption of his own brilliance, reference to having “work to do” and that we DFHs wouldn’t know anything about that, and a weak grasp of history coupled with his assertion that he is a “teacher” here to educate our deluded asses. Oh, yes, there’s also the tsk tsking about bad language and manners and refusal to have a respectful debate. It’s kind of funny when you think about it.

Speaking of morning work, I actually do have a whole shitload of it. Oh, sorry, Randal, guess I should say “s***load.” Don’t choke.

D.N. Nation,

I did not defend Hitler’s invasion of Poland. I merely asked if another person understood the German reason for doing so.

“So you just reject all the facts offered by conservatives as commanded, then shoot back schoolkid insults because there are no liberal facts to justify the hatred.”

Unlike eloquent arguments based in Reason and Truth such as:

“Go back to your marijuana, video games and cartoons. Come talk with me in a few years if per chance you may have by that time actually picked up a couple of history books and begun learning things the NPR actors leave out of their daily feedings for the lazy lib mind.”

Why must you be so shrill and un-serious, Legalize?

Answer my fucking question you little coward.

Go to work, you lazy bastard!

“Again, you are operating out of ignorance and insulting smugness.”

Not really, Wandal. Try EXPERIENCE and insulting smugness. Knowing the difference between what Rush says, and what my actual experience says, tends to promote insulting smugness.

I merely asked if another person understood the German reason for doing so.

Randal brings up a very good point. Why aren’t there any good puns for lebensraum?

I did not defend Hitler’s invasion of Poland. I merely asked if another person understood the German reason for doing so.

Uh huh.

Shuffle on, my friend.

BWAHAHAHHAAHA!!!

Randal’s certainly better than Iris. Thank you for showing us some more satire Randal, you got some of us pretty good.

So, my fine and smug liberal, do tell us what you know. Tell us how Republicans have destroyed your freedom.

Well there’s was this one thing about Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism. And something about crony-ism and putting Libery U grads in charge of appointing US Attourneys and… actually, here’s a good read.

You have no proof that Bush lied even one time.

Let me pad this answer out a bit, at least until I get to sixteen words.

We actually got to see why FDR wanted in when, at the conclusion of the war, our precious liberal Democrats handed the murderer Stalin a bunch of states in East Europe. Fifty years those people suffered under communism until the hated Reagan dared to call them evil and compete on such a level as to make them broke.

Umm is this the Evil Only Exists When Dems are in the White House Theory of Modern Western Civilization? Magically Reagan’s tear down this wall speech single-handedly defeated communism everywhere except in Obama’s madrassa and the ivy league latte-sipping hellholes of Marxism? Buddy – tell us more about our lazy lib minds. Please, it truly is a riot.

Randal

Cribbing your talking points from Mallard Fillmore and pasting them at Sadly, No does not make you a debater.

Just ask George Will.

Randal brings up a very good point. Why aren’t there any good puns for lebensraum?

When I downloaded my personality into one of the Reynolds Cyber Doo-Hickey-Ma-Jiggers, I found out that some one made pirated copies and was P2P file sharing the Wangchuck lieben rom.

Okay you’re right, there are no good puns for lebensraum.

I merely asked if another person understood the German reason for doing so.

‘Cause those fucking Poles started it, wanting to unleash their massive horse calvary and infinite number of pitchforks against the expansive modern industrial state to their West.

Don’t you and your “friend” have a business to start? I’ve argued with conservatives before and 99 percent of the time they disguise their intellectual vacuity with smug, idiotic assertions that are so wrong that it would take the better part of a day simply to unpack the stupidity and correct every single assumption (like, say, “The Demmycrats lost China”) to something that approximates reality. The 1% of conservatives who I enjoy arguing with approach the subject with the same basic set of facts and we differ on the details. It’s called respecting intellectual honesty.

Even fake trolls can’t abide.

Shalom, gentlemen. The fact is, while Dimmycrats needs no introduction, I do want to state that Dimmycrats’s “compromises” are more often out of sync with democratic values than aligned with them. In the first place, I’ve known some proletariats who were impressively shrewish. However, Dimmycrats is noisome and that trumps shrewish every time. Forbearance and kindly deportment are lost upon Dimmycrats. Then again, that notion has been popular for as long as revanchism has existed. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. And this is exactly why I’m leaving the Democrat Party, because its rudeness and meanness and the fact that ninnies who hate our freedom have taken it over. Besides, everyone knows that Germany was only sticking up for the true blue Reagan Democrats of Appalachia, the real victims in your sick misogony and ubiquitous Obambiism. Liberals. Hmf.

Go back to your marijuana, video games and cartoons

Yeah, l00suxx0rz go back to your cartoons. Growed-ups like Randal are too much to be caught up in talking about cartoons, like the one this thread is about.

Candy said,

Randal puts me in mind of Kevin. Long comments

Oh, I forgot, anything longer than 2 paragraphs puts a strain on the liberal mind.

crammed with a smarmy, arrogant assumption of his own brilliance,

Plenty enough arrogance to go around here, wouldn’t ya say?

I have no assumption of my own brilliance though. Rather, I am one who has actually taken some time to study. What you hear presented are facts and opinions, quite different from merely parroting what the liberals at NPR have taught you, then offering insults when confronted about the lack of facts.

reference to having “work to do” and that we DFHs wouldn’t know anything about that,

Wrong assumption. I figure everyone works, though do add in that liberals very rarely work at studying history.

The reason I need to go is because of taking on a den of liberals on a lark this morning. There had never been any intention of hanging around because of knowing that all debates with liberals end up in character assaults instead of actual exchanges of information.

I generally only give dedicated liberals a few replies, then hopefully watch as other conservatives take over the battle. My years on the internet have taught me that virtually zero of the hard-core liberals have changed. Almost zero of them even bother to acknowledge when his (theretofore thought of as) facts are shown to be wrong.

and a weak grasp of history coupled with his assertion that he is a “teacher” here to educate our deluded asses.

My grasp of history IS weak, yet I am willing to bet it shines in comparison to your own.

Oh, yes, there’s also the tsk tsking about bad language and manners and refusal to have a respectful debate. It’s kind of funny when you think about it.

No it isn’t. I run a Christian forum and matchmaking website, and have grown used to being careful around people. Having seen no cussing here before posting, I merely exercised caution.

Now go back and review your post to me. Count the number of assumptions you made based on your condescending attutude and wrongly placed confidence in the liberal worldview.

Aside from all that, notice how few people have been willing to discuss facts. Instead, like usual, challenging a liberal results in a name-throwing contest, whereupon we all end up playing junior psychiatrists dianosing motives instead of shutting up our egos long enough to try learning.

Randal: I thought you had a book to go and get published, a business to start, and a website to run. Get busy, slacker hippy!

The Left ought to stop holding up clever, witty mirrors to the Right and hoping that the ugly reflection will turn it to stone. It doesn’t work.

Long-ass posts + Nothing of substance + Me vs. the WORLD!!!!!! mentality = New Coke Iris.

You can’t answer my question can you Randal?

The reason I need to go is because of taking on a den of liberals on a lark this morning.

And the reason why you are still here is because…interdimensional causality loop put you back here?

Randal can’t leave until he answer my question. God told me so.

Randal said,

Anyway, I need to get busy with my morning. Got a website of my own to run. Plus a friend and I are starting a business.

And then…

Randal said,

BullshitbullshitBullshitbullshitBullshitbullshitBullshitbullshit and so forth and so on…

Get to work, you lazy sack of shit. How the fuck am I supposed to leech off society with my cartoons and weed and philosophy books (I don’t play video games, sorry, but this is as equal a mind-numbing waste of time) if you don’t get up off your gibbering ass and get to work…doing whatever the fuck ranting nutjobs do? What kind of business are you and your friend starting? Is your friend a rude dipstick, too? It’s a coffeehouse, isn’t it? Or an internet start-up, something like that.

Jerkoffs like, who is this one?, Randall?, always have some really really big important pile of work to do. It’s very pressing and important but they can’t resist hanging around sites where they’ve come specifically to insult people, just to see what is now going to be said about them.

I’ll get the popcorn.

“I run a Christian forum and matchmaking website” ….

Elitist!

DN, Randal’s here to keep me entertained! Let me fire up the trusty old wingnut translation device and set it to T-Randal-ator:

Plenty enough arrogance to go around here, wouldn’t ya say?

I have no assumption of my own brilliance though. Rather, I am one who has actually taken some time to study. What you hear presented are facts and opinions, quite different from merely parroting what the liberals at NPR have taught you, then offering insults when confronted about the lack of facts.

T-Randal-ator: I’m humble, but also smarter than all of you put together. Also insults are the hallmark of a weak argument. You’re all poopyheads.

I generally only give dedicated liberals a few replies, then hopefully watch as other conservatives take over the battle. My years on the internet have taught me that virtually zero of the hard-core liberals have changed. Almost zero of them even bother to acknowledge when his (theretofore thought of as) facts are shown to be wrong.

T-Randal-ator: My extensive research allows me to make one or two comments – and then I’ve blown my load. I’ve never won an argument and I explain that by telling myself that the entire world, with the sole exception of the humble Randal, is poopyheads.

PENIS

Brad is absolutely correct, people.

We should all relax, dudes, given the fact that the cover of the current issue of The New Yorker is only speaking truth to power.

After all, most American patriots know the truth about muslim terrorist-enabling Barry Hussein Obama and his America-hating Black militant wife, and it’s a breath of fresh air that even the fringe-leftists and ultra-elitists of Manhattan are grudgingly forced to acknowledge what has been plain for everyone else to see.

Thanks for keeping a level head on this most troubling issue, Brad.

Mmm-mmm-mmmmm, that’s some good baby! Pass me another drumstick, will ya?

You know, EVERY TIME some Gopper spouts off on this cover?

The funnier it fucking gets…

Randal, it’s a shame you couldn’t finish your book about Democrats being commie-lovers before the Cold War ended. That is information that Republicans might have been able to use to get themselves elected.

The funnier it fucking gets…

Terrorist Fist Jab does it. That shit was so stupid that FOX had to discipline someone for it. Considered over the top even for FOX News. Fist-jab is more blatant that a giant sticker that says “this is satire”. I’m going to go to the library and vandalize all the Swift so the new title is A Modest Fist Jab.

I found said toon just funny as fuck.
Folks taking it seriously &/or at face value are a sterling argument for minimal standards-tests (mental competency versus mental disease) for voting – at least among a few members of the weird radical fringe who believe in governance by a franchise that ISN’T perpetually kowtowing to the Lowest Common Denominator.

That cartoon did what so many long-suffering millions of victims living in a limbo of despair have been hoping to see done since the dawn of the millennium – it’s finally bringing the “Twin Solitudes” of America together … as both McCain & Obama reps have agreed to call it “tasteless & offensive” … like either team has any choice BUT to whine over a major-media artifact that isn’t in the Big Script.

Oh HO – in Soviet Amerika, politics plays YOU!

…mmm,mmm, more yummy trollburger, dead ahead.

#

Randal said,

July 14, 2008 at 17:43

Matt T,

Fighting the Nazis should have been left to the European socialists. Furthermore, it was a strategic blunder to go in when we did rather than allowing Hitler and Stalin to tear each other apart first.
…

Gee, isn’t that convenient? Enter the war as Hitler is invading the communist monster, then hand them more states than Hitler ever wanted at the war’s conclusion. I see a pattern there. A Democrat then handed China over to communists.
…

Do people even know why Germany invaded Poland?

Wow, nice job of pretending America did anything BUT allow the Germans & Russians to tear each other to ratshit, year after year after long evil sickening year, fobbing Stalin off with Lend-Lease & the occaisional dodge-ball “Big 3” meeting. You concur with the absolute ugliest shit I ever heard attributed to Truman. You rancid little defect. Can’t even BEGIN to come to terms with the simple reality that “Dirty Filthy Commie Pigs” are the main reason you, & every person you know, aren’t being required by law to pledge allegiance to Hitler’s Third Reich every morning, can you now?

Clue One: America didn’t “enter the war as Germany is fighting the communist monster” – it left the USSR to keep fighting the full fury of the Wehrmacht for YEARS before they joined the ETO conflict, dickface – & Hitler INVADED more nations than the Warsaw Pact ever had as members, to boot. Where did you get your History from, Cracker Jack Box U.? Oh, & a Democrat government poured mountains of dough into propping up a Kuomintang that was all-out kleptocracy & terrorism that would make a Jihadi puke, long after the entire world had come to loathe its toxic incompetence.

PROTIP: John Wayne was not famous for starring in documentaries.
Germany invaded Poland because Hitler got Himmler & Runstedt to set up a textbook false-flag “attack” using Nazis in Polish Army haut-couture, after he’d bullied the hell out of it, knowing the hasty & unorganized westward mobilization of their soldiers would render them easy meat for his panzers. If you’re a teacher, please stay the fuck away from children – at least until your IQ picks up the slack … lucky for you farang already pwned your helpless sad ass on your other episode of “Proud Moments In Pro-Am-Braindeath” or I’d just keep right on spanking until you had to fart through your nostrils for a week. You, Randal, are the reason condoms were invented.

It works this way as well.

Think about the absolute MONSTROUS fucking conspiracy that has to be taking place?

Ok?
This conspiracy theory you paranoids have wrought is EPIC in its fear and ignorance.

So please do continue on with, “That New Yorker Cover SURE does CONFIRM my beliefs.”

I mean holy shit!

Polish Army Couture is a decent band name.

Jim,

I just looked at a couple sentences from your post.

Without taking time at this moment to reply, I can add this much:

What a creep you are!

Waht kind of schmuck would talk to another human in that way?

I expect nothing but insults from liberals. But you have reached a new low.

Will probably come back this evening to correct your history. In the meantime, go emotionall beat your wife or whatever awful form of leisure time activity fits your depraved life.

Sheesh, you get my award for the biggest jerk liberal met in the last couple years.

Get to work, asshole. Those Christians aren’t gonna date themselves!

boo

While I’m inclined to agree its satire, I think its….not the smartest satire in the world. Yes, all the memes are there but the memes are there because people keep repeating them.

So lets satirize the repetition of ridiculous memes by repeating them ourselves!

Okay, its art. We can’t be expected to agree. I didn’t think Piss Christ was offensive, but Assrocket hanging out to “Bob for apples” was.

I would love to see this spark discussions of “Wow, aren’t all those memes that I’m getting in my e-mail stupid?” I really hope it does.

I still think I’d be happier with this as an inside comic, not a cover comic.

Get to work, asshole. Those Christians aren’t gonna date themselves!

Well, not without a dildo and a couple of wet suits . . .

I think Atrios’s post pretty much nailed the sensible perspective.

Meanwhile, the reaction from the right has been hillarious. NQ is particularly funny today.

Without taking time at this moment to reply, I can add this much:

What a creep you are!

Without telling you that your internal logic makes my head hurt, I can add this much: Your internal logic makes my head hurt.

Welcome to Date a Christian.com. Please click on the following interests so that we might match you up with other Christians with similar interests:

[x] Likes to do blow off of the ass of male prostitutes.

[x] Enjoys soliciting sex in airport bathrooms.

[ ] Love thy neighbor

[ ] Treats others as you would have them treat you.

[x] Sex with underage male pages.

Randal is comedy gold. Remember all that shinola he was peddling about two paragraphs is too much for lazy lib minds, only the teacher is humble enough to do his research, etc.
Jim,
I just looked at a couple sentences from your post.
Without taking time at this moment to reply, I can add this much:
What a creep you are!

Nice one Randy. Oh you’re not done? How much hypocrisy can you squeeze into one comment?
Waht kind of schmuck would talk to another human in that way?
I expect nothing but insults from liberals. But you have reached a new low.
Will probably come back this evening to correct your history. In the meantime, go emotionall beat your wife or whatever awful form of leisure time activity fits your depraved life.
Sheesh, you get my award for the biggest jerk liberal met in the last couple years.
WHAMMO! You truly are a teacher.

Based on what you’ve actually posted here Jim called you arancid little defect.
Based on not even reading what he wrote, you accused him of beating his wife.
Awesome Randal, totally awesome. Stay classy you ignorant self-absorbed schmuck.

Randall-

I can’t speak for Hitler’s personal reasons for invading Poland, besides the fact that it was a large country with a lot of people who could fight, and that he had been appeased with Czechoslovakia and had a “why the fuck not” attitude about the whole shebang.

As for giving away half of Europe, the Marshall Plan allowed for the stark contrast of democracy and capitalism against totalitarianism and communism. Without the Marshall Plan, we would have lost western Europe, too. What was done in Europe was one of the best successes in U.S. diplomatic history.

I’d rather not put my reputation as a historian on the line, even though I study it and work in a museum that focuses solely on military history, because no matter what I say, you’ll call me an idiot and lacking a basis of knowledge. I will say that your understanding of history lacks depth that shows that you’ve either never studied it, or that you filter what you have studied into a muddled mess of partisan crap.

Have you tried reading some of the better, more neutral books on the war? I realize that you think the neutrality in some of these books is really a liberal conspiracy (but sometimes the facts of the case support such a conclusion). However, if you were to invest, I’d suggest reading up on U.S. and world diplomatic history since World War I to see the hoops our leaders had to jump through just to manage the mess-ups and few successes we’ve had. Notice I said diplomatic history. If you invest in military history, you’re likely to get 700 pages worth of “USA! USA!”

Oh, and as for your comments about this:

Democrat – WWI
Democrat – WWII
Democrat – WWII, the final years
Democrat – Korea
Democrat – Gave away China to communists
Democrat – Gave away East Europe to communists
Democrat – Vietnam

…I’ve got say, at least for the first two wars, those presidents didn’t want to get involved. Woodrow Wilson fought hard, very hard, to keep us out of the war, and would have rather been a peacekeeper than a warrior. It took unrestricted marine warfare from the Germans and Theodore Roosevelt, a republican, to goad Wilson into it. As for FDR, if Pearl Harbor isn’t a reason, I don’t know what is. The U.S. came out of that one smelling (mostly) like a rose (take a look at economic trends from 1950-on), so I can’t say that it was a strategic blunder to enter when we did, conduct the war as we did, or move on from the war as we did.

I’m not even going to touch your argument about Bush lying or not lying, because if you don’t know the instances in which he did lie pathologically, unapologetically, and unsympathetically, then the best conclusion is that you really can’t read at all and you didn’t actually get to this part of my comment.

J— said @ 17:57:

A: That’s not funny!

LOLlercoaster!!!

The fact is, Randal, get the fuck out of here. This is my territory and I’ll not have you incorrectly trolling my peeps.

Hm, this troll is stale, can we have a fresh one please?

Randal said @ 17:47

By the way, I sympathize. My early years left me a proud, ignorant, sincere liberal until finally having my ears opened and actually becoming willing to hear what the other side had been saying.

Chappaquiddick!

Randal said @ 18:35

I generally only give dedicated liberals a few replies, then hopefully watch as other conservatives take over the battle. My years on the internet have taught me that virtually zero of the hard-core liberals have changed. Almost zero of them even bother to acknowledge when his (theretofore thought of as) facts are shown to be wrong.

Internet Traditions!

Randal said @ 19:36

blablabla

Why oh why must dirty hippies be so rude?!

Booooring.

Gee, isn’t that convenient? Enter the war as Hitler is invading the communist monster, then hand them more states than Hitler ever wanted at the war’s conclusion. I see a pattern there. A Democrat then handed China over to communists.

Kind of suspicious.

Don’t forget the handing over of North Korea to Soviet management!

And that Dems forced Nixon to withdraw from Vietnam! All in order to get the Khmer Rouge in power! All part of the plan!

And Nicaragua! And Afghanistan! Jimmy Carter’s human rights initiative was merely a cover to make sure those places fell to the Reds! If Rambo hadn’t liberated Afghanistan in the late 80s, think how horrible it would’ve been for those people!

And most devious of all! The Dems’ underwriting of sanctions against South Africa, which allowed that regime to continue to survive by tightening up, which meant that its racist policies stayed in force longer, which meant more world sympathy for Mozambique and Angola’s communist movements! How twisted can you get?!

And I almost forgot Johnson’s criminal understaffing of Zanzibar with CIA agents! How the hell are two guys gonna stop a Red Revolution?! Exactly. It was what Johnson wanted. And did Jimmy Carter summon troops to invade Tanzania when the Red Chinese built the TanZam rail?! You know the answer!

Will probably come back this evening to correct your history.

Uh-huh. We’ll be here.

What kind of schmuck would talk to another human in that way?

The kind who barges into a blog solely to stir shit and insult others?

And who taunts someone they don’t know about “beating his wife”? Weird mix of projection/denial there, pal.

Yay for SadlyNo, I came here hoping to find someone to defend the cover.

Here’s a website and book I just learned about: killedcartoons.com

http://www.killedcartoons.com/about_the_book.php

“America’s “free press” isn’t as free as you think. That’s especially true for editorial cartoonists and illustrators. As members of a profession enshrined in the Constitution, visual journalists feel they have a responsibility to tell the truth as they see it. But in this age of fearful editors, government censorship, and media consolidation. controversial editorial art is frequently killed before publication.

And the situation has only gotten worse since 9-11.

Now, however, cartoonists—and the reading public—will get a second chance. In KILLED CARTOONS: CASUALTIES FROM THE WAR ON FREE EXPRESSION (W.W. NORTON), which features nearly 100 cartoons and illustrations, editor David Wallis gives you the chance to see what major magazines and newspapers tried to suppress. The collection, heralded by cartoonist Gahan Wilson of the New Yorker as “amazing in its range,” includes spiked art about everything from the Iraq War to teen fashion trends. Works by renowned contemporary artists such as Garry Trudeau , Steve Brodner, Edward Sorel, Doug Marlette, Ted Rall, Paul Conrad, Matt Davies and Anita Kunz are displayed alongside unearthed gems by legends like David Low, Herblock and Norman Rockwell. “

Uh oh! I smell a troll-fight – someone get the hose & the broomsticks, quick!

Creep? Schmuck? Depraved? Dude, you just advocated intentionally letting tens (or hundreds) of millions of people slaughter each other – presumably while the US sold them a bunch of fancy heat to do it with. Even if I was Prince Saud himself, I’d have to do me some serious 2-at-a-time wife-slappin’ with sap-gloves on, to be on a par with the sort of mental sewage you’ve left here. I see no point in respecting someone not only dangerously clueless but PROUD of being such – yo, “teacher” – as you’ve now learned to your chagrin, I don’t humor asshats. Get over yourself. Oh, that wasn’t “a new low” – that was a taste of payback for every time you saw another pretty bomb-burst in Baghdad on your TeeVee during Shock-&-Awe Wargasm-Day, then went “YEEEE-HAW!” like some dork at an NFL game, while someone’s kids or Mom & Dad got turned into pink spray. For every time you’ve ever stuck up for the pathological turdling in the Oval Office. For every time you’ve sneered at any ethical model that wasn’t a neocon deriviative hybrid of “Atlas Shrugged” & “Mein Kampf” – as interpreted by Walt Disney. For every poor dupe even denser than you are that you’ve ever suckered into buying (or playing along with) your warped version of reality. Hope you liked it, because I brought plenty.
Good luck “correcting” my history & thank you for yet another non-reply to yet another slapdown.

Where’s the Department of Kill Whitey?

I find the drawing accurate in terms of the nonsense used to smear the Obamas, but worry about the memes planted with those who do not deconstruct the image any further.

“I don’t care a straw for your newspaper articles, my constituents don’t know how to read, but they can’t help seeing them damned pictures.” ~ Boss Tweed

I’d say that cover works as satire as well as Maureen Dowd’s columns about Gore. Which is to say, it doesn’t. It just memorializes obnoxious lies in a vivid visual image. Sure it makes the wingnuts look ridiculous to those of us who already think they’re ridiculous. But it doesn’t do Obama any favors to bind him visually, yet again, to poisonous conspiracy theories.

But I might change my mind and find it funny if the New Yorker follows up with a cover memorializing all the lefty lies about McCain. They can depict him having his diaper changed by a male nurse and a doctor shooting him up with powerful anti-psychotics. Cindy is passed out on a sofa surrounded by bottles of Vicodin, but a black woman dressed in a sexy nightgown is waiting for him to be readied for love.

A large portion of this country is quite punch-drunk after the beating they’ve taken from the Bush Administration, the GOP and their complicit corporate media. I’m not going to blame them or put them down if they don’t get the subtlety of this irresponsible New Yorker cover.

When Rove and company have worked overtime for the past decade to turn everything on its head, it doesn’t make sense for the New Yorker to show the world upside-down even if it is trying to be satirical.

Maybe, just maybe, this is not the time to be snarky about this. Tell you what, let’s wait until we’re out of immediate danger of another Republican administration and then you elites can be just as smarty-pants as you want.

When I see the New Yorker with a cover that shows John McCain getting cornholed by George Bush, well then I might take it back. Until then, please Mr Elite New Yorker Man: knock it the fuck off. Our lives are at stake here.

I’m back from my busy business and website. BTW, if any of you want to visit, the site is http://www.republicans_in_diapers.com

It is a compendium of pictures of some of my favorite republicans dressed in alternative costumes. It will certainly be a challenge for you godless liberals to look at Larry Craig naked and feel all diverse, like you make us republicans do when you force us to actually get within 100 feet of a negro.

To make the pictures, I even used a legal copy of Photoshop – legal in Shanghai, anyway! (copyright laws are for democrats)

“… elites … smarty-pants … Mr Elite New Yorker Man … our lives are at stake …”

Never Forget!!!!!

Yo Pope, who the fuck is going to let this cover influence their opinion?

The title of this image is… “The Politics of Fear.” That’s _inside_ the cover of the magazine. Here’s the table of contents.

As cover art, it simply fails in its apparent satire. It’s simply not funny, and I defy any of its defenders to explain where the humor is. There’s no nudge-nudge, wink-wink message. It may feel good to buck the trend and claim you see some humor there, but give it up. There IS no humor in it.

Um, the joke is, “If you believed everything you heard about the Obamas, this is how you’d picture their home life.”

There’s a burning flag in the fireplace and a huge portrait of Osama bin Laden, and that’s not enough to create a “nudge-nudge, wink-wink message”?

Thanks for finally making me delurk…

Comedy is all about timing. If this cover appeared, say, after Obama won in November, it would have accurately reflect the collective pants-shitting of the Right. “OMG, angry Negroes are in charge!”

I’m no yokel. In fact, most of my friends would say my humor can be tasteless and over-the-top at times. But this cover is just a piss-poor attempt at satire. I agree – if you gotta explain the joke, it ain’t funny.

if you gotta explain the joke, it ain’t funny.

If dullards totally miss the joke, it’s even funnier.

That depends on who ya gotta explain the joke to.

Anyone here old enough to remember when Reagan was on the campaign train in 1980, he told a “joke” to reporters about an Italian, a Pole, and the Mafia at a cockfight? When that crap hit the fan, his aides tried to explain that it was Reagan’s attempt at pointing out how jokes like that were bad. The media at the time let it slide, just like his tales about Vietnam vets not eligible for the GI Bill, trees causing more CO2 pollution then factories, etc. And look how well that all turned out.

IMHO it’s very New Yorker to have as a key part of the joke the notion that if you don’t get the joke, it’s your problem. “Why is this funny?” is, like, the baseline reaction to any cartoon that’s ever appeared in the New Yorker. There’s a whole Seinfeld episode about that.

Take the famous image of what the world looks like to New Yorkers. Is the joke that the rest of the world doesn’t matter? Or that _to myopic New Yorkers_, the rest of the world doesn’t matter? Or something else? You kind of have to talk it out.

And they don’t put a little picture of a hipster in the corner and make the whole cover a thought bubble to spell it out.

Many of us “get” the joke; we just don’t think it was told well.

Maybe they should have depicted the Obamas in a more “American Gothic” style, with the OTT, faux Right-wing imagery. Of course, that’s why I’m not an illustrator for the New Yorker.

(But if I ever am, I declare that idea MINE! ALL MINE! BWAAAHAAHAA!)

Fighting the Nazis should have been left to the European socialists

Yeah! those Nationalist Socialists in Nazi Germany were really screwing the pooch!

I think it’s told in such a way as to make the question of whether it’s told well… part of the joke. It invites you to laugh at anyone who would take it seriously until being told it was satirical, and it invites you to laugh at anyone who believes these things about the Obamas, and it presumes that its audience can get the joke without being told precisely how it works. So it’s smug, but that’s the New Yorker for you.

but is rather a bloody awesome satire of right-wing assholism:

I’m with you on this, Brad. Dunno why Atrios isn’t getting it.

I think it’s awesome satire, but I still find the magazine to be quite meh.

[…] far as the controversial New Yorker cover is concerned, I tend to think that while it is an attempt at satire, it’s a rather poor attempt, for reasons that have already been spelled out by people […]

There’s a burning flag in the fireplace and a huge portrait of Osama bin Laden, and that’s not enough to create a “nudge-nudge, wink-wink message”?

If only.

Not that moonbats and wingnuts are reacting as they do for the same reasons.

OK, now that’s offensive. Moonbats are leftists. The only people I’ve seen a) paying any attention to this trivia and b) failing to get the joke are dembots, Kossacks and other right-wing idiots.

Retract, sir!

Big picture time: The observers who need it spelled out are also being satirized in that cover. Putting a Rush Limbaugh thought balloon would have made it easy. It’s not easy, it’s not instantly and gratifyingly digestible, it’s not supposed to be. Some difficult thought and attention might need to be expended!

I’d be surprised if the artist didn’t anticipate the firestorm resulting from the ambiguity of the cover, that’s part of what he’s mocking — the knee-jerk, opinioned, incurious and non-receptive American character with its 2 second attention span that treats all stimuli as disposable.

This is what art fucks with.

I’m with Bob Somerby on this one: this was just counter-productive.
Read him: http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071508.shtml

“flawedplan said,

July 15, 2008 at 19:08

…Putting a Rush Limbaugh thought balloon would have made it easy. It’s not easy, it’s not instantly and gratifyingly digestible, it’s not supposed to be. Some difficult thought and attention might need to be expended”

Dude (or Dudette?),

Anything “not instantly and gratifyingly digestible” it’s unAmerican. What are you? A terrorist or something?

The Really Real Randal said,

July 14, 2008 at 23:22

I’m back from my busy business and website. BTW, if any of you want to visit, the site is http://www.republicans_in_diapers.com

Okay, now THAT’s educational!
The Judge Scalia shot was very tasteful – & artistic, too – who knew he was such a Picasso of diarrhea?

[…] of the New Yorker, issued a statement saying that the illustration is actually intended to be satire, a decadent form of humor invented by the Romans shortly before their civilization was overrun by […]

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