From Morn To Noonan He Fell; From Noonan To Dewy Eve
We’ve been neglecting Nooners lately. That’s mostly because we’ve run out of puns like ‘High Noonan,’ ‘Noonan World Order,’ and ‘Darkness at Noonan.’ But as you can see, we just thought of another one. Let’s see what he’s getting up to lately.
Failure
June 28th, 2008 at 09:33am Mark Noonan
Well, it’s been a long time coming. You know, ever since they changed the site’s name from Blogs For Bush to Blogs For Victory, things have seemed. . .wait, no. That’s not a Mark title. Indeed, it’s a cut-and-paste error.1 Drat, let’s try this again.
The Catholic View on Torture
June 28th, 2008 at 09:33am Mark NoonanCan be read here, Torture is a Moral Issue, A Catholic Study Guide (PDF). While I have not considered the document in its entirety, nor spent any long time in contemplation of what it teaches, I’d like to put out a few observations of my own.
Sounds good! We’ve got a copy of Darius Rejali’s Torture and Democracy that we haven’t read or spent much time thinking about, what with all the basketball that’s been on in recent weeks, and we’d like to put out a few observations of our own, seeing as the physical presence of the book is irradiating the room with quantum wisdom particles.
I also spy an unread copy of Brian O’Nolan’s Myles na Gopaleen 1940-45 on the bookshelf, so this post promises to be more nippingly funny in a playfully ornate Irish style even than usual.
And while we’re on the subject, the Catholic study guide on torture is pretty good, but missing some key points. Anyone who wants to read it will see that I’m right — or better yet, just download it to your desktop like I did.
In what will surely please the critics of the Bush Adminisration, the document says we must stop using euphemisms in our discussion – no more “enhanced interrorogation” when we really mean something quite harsh. This will please the left – but only up to such time as they actually start thinking about it and realise that this means we’ll also have to stop using “pro-choice” as a euphemism to cover up “pro-abortion”.
Did you notice that that Mark is typing ‘terror’ automatically, as in ‘enhanced interrorogation?’ It’s strange, if true, that the Catholic Church is attempting to do away with all euphemisms. What will the Holy Ghost be called now? Anyway, we can all find satisfaction in the fact that terms such as ‘enhanced interrogation’ will no longer be… Oh my God, I just thought about it — we’ll have to stop using the term ‘pro-choice’…
Slipping Mark’s mind at the moment is that, unlike himself, ‘the left’ doesn’t follow the spiritual leadership of the Vatican. But experienced fans of his work — Noonanites? Noonanschanz? — have seen this line of reasoning before. Arguments against official violence and cruelty (the death penalty, military adventures, bombings of civilians, indefinite detentions, torture) always seem to be dismissed by the observation that abortion is legal in the US, whereupon the whole mess is shifted onto ‘the left’ for not supporting a ‘Culture of Life’ — indeed, for supporting a Culture of Death.
We’re dealing with a man who believes that Enlightenment notions of universal rights and the primacy of reason helped ruin the perfect Christian civilization of 12th-century Europe, but it’s been something of a subtext to our brutal, years-long mockery of Mark that we kind of like him personally, and that we suspect he’s capable of a higher moral calculus than, for instance, unnh, or muuuh. Watch the gears turning here, for instance:
This is an important thing to keep in mind, because at bottom the issue of torture is a life issue, and thus intrinsic to the whole debate on whether or not human beings have an inherent dignity which must be respected at all times, no matter what the particular human being has done.
If we have an inherent dignity then we can’t torture – but we also can’t kill the unborn or, indeed, allow such things as the degradation of pornography to continue unabated (side note: when you start getting into Catholic teaching, dear readers, you’re going to get a lot of things like this: “narrowly focused” is not something which applies to Catholic teaching…the Church isn’t universal for nothin’, ya know?).
See, by invoking Enlightenment concepts like inherent human dignity, he’s on the verge of something interesting. It’ll all end in ruin and tears soon enough (SPOILER ALERT: Ad exstirpanda), but let’s leave things on an up cadence as we finish Part I of our inquisition and look forward to Part II, the one that portends to be smarter and with more citations (not to mention even more nippingly funny in a playfully ornate Irish style). Here’s a sprightly cadence now:
Can Obama Win the White Vote?
June 30th, 2008 at 01:23am Mark Noonan[…]
Right now, the only reason Obama has a shot is because President Bush and the GOP are so very unpopular – if President Bush’s approval rating were even 45% right now, this election would be in the bag for McCain; but its not, so Obama is ahead and still has to be considered the inside favorite to win in November…
And imagine how close it would be if Bush had a 50% approval rating. Or what about 55 or even 65 per cent? In fact, imagine if all of Bush’s policies had been successful, so that McCain could promise to continue every one of them. Imagine how the election would be in the bag if… If… Hmm-mm, did you ever hear of a wish sammich?
Above: The Chips – ‘Rubber Biscuit’ (2:09)
1 Not as shown, but es verdad.
Ad exstirpanda
First recipe in the Endangered Species Cookbook.
Masterful post. And I’d never heard the original Rubber Biscuit. And “an 50% approval rating” is close enough.
He’s right. Or, at any rate, he would be if anyone on the left actually was “pro-abortion” instead of “anti-women-being-pregnant-when-they-don’t-want-to-be”.
What’s a euphemism for “euphemism”?
If we have an inherent dignity then we can’t torture – but we also can’t kill the unborn or, indeed, allow such things as the degradation of pornography
Whoa there!
Freres Noonan
Freres Noonan
Dormez vous ?
Sonnez les matines
Sonnez les matines
Din Dan Don
Din Dan Don ….
……degradation of pornography……
I assume he is referring to donkey porn.
…degradation of pornography…
It was WAY better in the 12th century, much higher quality stuff.
Right now, the only reason Obama has a shot is because President Bush and the GOP are so very unpopular
oh yeah, sheesh, so very, but let’s just breeze past why because that has no relevance.
– if President Bush’s approval rating were even 45% right now, this election would be in the bag for McCain; but its not, so Obama is ahead and still has to be considered the inside favorite to win in November…
noitsnot and if McCain’s entire platform didn’t mirror the current shitpile he might have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a few votes but let’s not consider that because it’ll mean thinking about why Bush isn’t liked anymore.
So, to Noonan “the degradation of pornography” is as bad as torture and murder? That’s some interesting morality.
And “if Bush was popular people might like McCain more” is really helpful Mark. The GOP thanks you.
It’s much more fun to hate niggers then it is to admit your policies blow, Lesley.
Yes, Gundamhead; Playboy is the exact same thing as beating someone to death with a baseball bat, or cutting them repeatedly with a box cutter so that they eventually bleed to death. No distinctions.
Let’s see if this gets past the spamblocker…
Whoa whoa whoa. If anything pornography has only gotten much better recently. We now have hi definition streaming content of anything you want. How has pornography been degraded recently? Back when I was a kid you were lucky to get your hands on even a single magazine that showed some pubes.
And not only that, but pornography is the major cause to adopt new technologies. VGA computer monitors, the VCR, the DVD, the internet…all these took off because people wanted to watch higher quality porn with more privacy. The reason you don’t see as many porno theaters is because you can now rent/stream it straight to the privacy of your house. Most people did WANT to go to the theaters, but there was little other choice. Porn pushes technology and every business school class on technology will tell you the same thing. Without porn, we’d still be using the telegraph.
I’ve lived in silicon valley for a long long time and I can still remember the day (in the mid 80’s) I realized most of my hi-tech colleagues’ excitement about their new modems revolved around never having to go into a store to buy a playboy again (Even if it did take a few hours to download a single picture).
Wow. I just went way off topic. About porn.
Gee, I’m pro abortion after reading this post. But then that’s probably because I was anti-religion until I read this post. Or maybe, I just want to ask, how could anyone not like abortion especially if the catholics are against it? Anyway, some of those guys in those porn flicks should a been aborted.
Have you noticed that most of the
womenpeople who are against abortion arewomenpeople you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place?(modified George Carlin joke)
Nicey-nice hidey-words? Double-plus-un-dysphemism? Recursive decorum?
Funny he posts about the degredation of porn on a website, simply because the internet is for porn!
Hmm, so if I favour reproductive choice for women, I can’t call it Pro-Choice?
Smells like Rabbit-Hole #5.
Man wants to rename it “pro-abortion” – but I wonder how he’ll feel about having to refer to HIS position as “anti-women’s-rights” at the same time?
Oh noez!
Girlies on the Interwebs with their naughty-bits showing!
Their abundance of pulchritude is TORTURING me!
It’s MURDER I tell yez!!!
w00t for Darius Rejali! I was lucky enough to have him as an adviser in college way back when. He’s been working on torture since before it was hip, man… Plus he’s a real prince.
It was WAY better in the 12th century, much higher quality stuff.
If I were not flying overseas tomorrow morning, I would spend the next 2 hours researching and posting links to 12th-century pornography. Ah well, I’m sure you can cope without me. Imagine lots of weird shit and Sheela-na-Gigs.
So to sum up: Catholicism currently regards torture as a really really bad thing. Fortunately Noonan is spared the effort of reconciling that dictum with his support for torturers within the Bush administration and its potential successors, because liberals have views that he dislikes.
It’s strange, if true, that the Catholic Church is attempting to do away with all euphemisms. What will the Holy Ghost be called now?
Bernard.
No doubt the Abu Ghraib pics functioned as gay porn for many in the Administration.
So Mark is right to establish this connection. That’s what he’s going for, isn’t it?
As Righteous Bubba notes, a masterful post. I’ve never even heard of myles no pleen 1940-45 but I can feel it’s wisdom percolating up the coffee pot stem over on the wood stove. As soon as I drink a cup I’m going to go lie down in the grass and do some gravitational physics. Will report.
I’ve never even heard of myles no pleen 1940-45
Where have you been for the last 63 years??!?
Thanks for the aside about actually kind of liking Mark. I do, and as right wing commenters go he’s one of the — not best, but more interesting. He is capable of the kind of moral calculus that says that he can’t rant about abortion and support the death penalty, although war is somehow ok. You’re also correct about Matt and Leo, who are high-order pissants.
I don’t know why but I comment on his blog more than just about any other, which is to say not much. But he’s interested in engaging in debate with those with whom he disagrees, which deserves points as well.
His commenters (both left and right) are largely horrible, although Jeremiah is comedy gold.
The moral calculus is overwhelming and undeniable.
I’m anti-torture, so I MUST be pro-porn!
Wait… did I get it right?
These things are so complicated. That’s why I let the toobs make my moral decisions. And the toobs are… PRO-PORN.
Yes, I’ve got it right. Whew.
“Mark Noonan” is a euphemism for “dog fellating dickhead.”
I almost wonder if he’s clever enough to degrade the discussion of torture by throwing in porn.
Mark: Hey, we gotta stop torturing people!
Everyone (except a few assholes): Great, about time.
Mark: Or at least we’ll start calling torture torture instead of using fancy words for it.
Everyone (except a few assholes): Wait, are you saying we should stop torturing people or just calling it torture when we do torture people?
Mark [raising his voice]: And if we start using the word torture you can’t say you’re pro-choice, you have to say you’re pro-baby murder.
Everyone (except a few assholes): What? Dude, shut up.
Mark: AND you have to outlaw pornography!
Everyone (except a few assholes): [Sets fire to Mark’s porn stash, throws him on the bonfire].
The End.
It has been many a year since I darkened a classroom door, but I always see statements like that, imagine them on a term paper and the visualize the WORLD’S ANGRIEST PROFESSOR.
Heh, indeed, Arky.
It should be noted that this
http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/American_Family_Association_reverses063008.html
is pretty funny.
Does every wingnut commentator preface their remarks with, “I was too lazy to read the whole thing, and suspect I’m too dumb to really grasp it, but here goes”?
Probably.
It’s how their readership thinks.
Stupid liberals. We are at war. We need to show them we are not afraid of them, and if we hurt them, too bad. Being sensitive and nice gets us killed. We need information that could save lives. Spare me your “moral” reservations, my children are in danger!
He could not have anticipated blogs but Brian O’Nolan anticipated and satirized our modern day shitegeist as represented in the nutosphere way back in 1934 when he published “Blather”:
And Mark’s pornography won’t degrade so quickly if he just plays those old VHS tapes every few months. Otherwise they will demagnetize so he does have a point there.
I know the Jonahic Method is all the rage these days in wingnuttia, but it takes a whopping ego to comment on what they leave unread or unseen and it’s getting tiresome. Would it kill them just once to read the whole fucking thing before making their “observations?”
But Noonan mysteriously omits any mention of the Pope’s vocal opposition to Mark’s favourite war.
(Please, O Mighty Gods of WordPress, allow this comment to pass.)
http://www.truthout.org/article/abu-ghraib-inmates-sue-contractors-claim-torture
Hagerstown, Maryland – Three Iraqis and a Jordanian filed federal lawsuits Monday alleging they were tortured by U.S. defense contractors while detained at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq in 2003 and 2004.
The lawsuits allege that those arrested and taken to the prison were subjected to forced nudity, electrical shocks, mock executions and other inhumane treatment. They seek unspecified payments high enough to compensate the detainees for their injuries, and to deter contractors from such conduct in the future.
Too bad pompom wavers like Noonan can’t be held legally liable for torture too.
It’s strange, if true, that the Catholic Church is attempting to do away with all euphemisms.
The Virgin Mary
The Mystery of the Trinity
John the Beloved of Christ
Eating the body, drinking the blood
Clerical Celibacy
Deus Ex Machina
And imagine how close it would be if Bush had a 50% approval rating. Or what about 55 or even 65 per cent? In fact, imagine if all of Bush’s policies had been successful, so that McCain could promise to continue every one of them. Imagine how the election would be in the bag if… If…
If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs…if we had some eggs.
Spare me your “moral” reservations, my children are in danger!
I hope none of your children are military aged.
Sorry, completely OT, but this WSJ editorial is gold
Yes, global warming may be destroying the earth, but I can’t prove that it isn’t, therefore it isn’t science. Where DO they find these people?
Sure, Mark. What do you have to say about this then? Here’s a little refresher:
Emphasis mine.
Yes, the Catholic Church has always deplored torture.
“I know the Jonahic Method is all the rage these days in wingnuttia, but it takes a whopping ego to comment on what they leave unread or unseen and it’s getting tiresome. Would it kill them just once to read the whole fucking thing before making their “observations?””
No. Reading stuff is the surest path to liberal fascism. Don’t even get me started on reading AND understanding stuff.
I’m lazy. What was the specific reason for Blogs for Bush switching to Blogs for Victory? By specific, I mean not the obvious one (abandon ship!) but the one they gave (um, must win the war for forever!).
And having original thoughts?
ANARCHY!
Blogs for Bush switching to Blogs for Victory
This is a much funnier statement if, instead of Blogs, you read it as Bongs for Victory.
My Amsterdam Syndrome has unfortunately gone into remission.
So, the so-called Catholic Church says torture is bad and, um, dignity and stuff, but mumble mumble abortion mumble mumble pornography harumf um huh well yes. I think that settles that.
“Pro-abortion” would fit only if pro-choice folks actually thought that women should be forced to have abortions whether they wanted them or not; you know, like “pro-lifers” who don’t give a shit what happens to the actual children(nor the adults, nor anyone save fetuses) still think women should be forced to birth them.
If I wanted to see an opinion consisting of tl;dr and torture=LULZ I’d consult the Encyclopedia Dramatica. Wotta dipshit.
Hey, in the background isn’t that Torquemada from History of the World Part 1?
Myles! I read his essay on professional book-handlers twenty five years ago and still remember it fondly to this very day.
I like how Nooners trumps all arguments by reminding us that the Catholic church is “universal.”
Don’t overlook this gem of a comment from the “Can Obama win the white vote?” thread:
Earbama = 1/2 white
McCain = 100% white
hmmm i think ill use my “white vote” for the 100% white guy!
But like Jon Parker said, the greatest commenter is Jeremiah. That guy is truly on one, and he’s really easy to wind up, which makes for some hilarious stuff.
did you ever hear of a wish sammich?
Is that anything like a shit sammich? If so, I’d love to serve one to Marky teh Noon, made with those tasty, flaky biscuits and topped with a nice fried egg.
My immune system is now on notice!
If it keeps killing microscopic life to keep me alive, it’s gonna have the Pope after it.
I’m confused. He said…
no more “enhanced interrorogation” when we really mean something quite harsh.
Does this mean that instead of saying “We extracted a confession using enhanced interrogation” we must now say “We extracted a confession using something quite harsh”?
Isn’t that like replacing “The alter boy was subjected to enhanced physical attention” with “The alter boy was subjected to unwanted intimate contact”?
the full panalopy of US law
“The full panalopy” is presumably the female equivalent of “the full monty.” Somebody needs to tell him how to spell “Penelope.”
Noonanschanz?
Bwahaw!
What was the specific reason for Blogs for Bush switching to Blogs for Victory? By specific, I mean not the obvious one (abandon ship!) but the one they gave (um, must win the war for forever!).
The argument is that as the Bush presidency winds down, Nooners must turn his attention to future elections, specifically, helping Republicans win them (by saying really stupid shit to a handful of choir members…how this helps, one isn’t sure). So it’s a blog all about GOP victory, which is why they barely ever actually talk about GOPers.
So to sum up: Catholicism currently regards torture as a really really bad thing. Fortunately Noonan is spared the effort of reconciling that dictum with his support for torturers within the Bush administration and its potential successors, because liberals have views that he dislikes.
Precisely–and this is an ongoing pattern with him. As long as liberals hold views he doesn’t like, then he is excused from having to reconcile his own batshit-craziness (for example, his definition of “the left” as a massive, centuries-old conspiracy).
PS: I really do think he takes that whole “Culture of Life/Culture of Death” thing very seriously. Like, it’s not just a little talking point to him–he throws out “You = Culture of Death!” like it’s the ace trump card and doesn’t seem to understand why nobody takes it seriously.
Aside from abortion (I know, that’s like saying “aside from the axe in your head”) what other issue are we Culture of Death types on the Death side of?
We’re against capital punishment, stoning people, and wiping out whole species of people and polar bears.
I don’t feel very Culture of Death.
Now that I’ve got two cups of coffee under my belt I can remember how to spell altar.
I’ll go all “Culture of Death” on skeeters and cockroaches, but that’s about it.
The right wing is all Culture of Death, all the time, unless you’re a Fetus American.
Aside from abortion (I know, that’s like saying “aside from the axe in your head”) what other issue are we Culture of Death types on the Death side of?
Well, we definitely murdered Terri Schiavo. (Noonan is of the adamant belief that all she needed was a sandwich and a bottle of water; further, it is the Culture of Death that prevented the Culture of Life from giving her things, never mind the fact that she would’ve choked or drowned had somebody shoved a sandwich and poured water down her throat.)
But really, it’s simply abortion. Noonan’s not a single-issue guy, but he does tie pretty much everything to abortion somehow, if only to claim the moral high ground for being so Culture of Life-y. If you’re pro-choice, then you are an amoral islamonazi atheist.
And look how much suffering they have inflicted, simply because they aren’t bright enough to handle moral ambiguity.
Hey, in the background isn’t that Torquemada from History of the World Part 1?
I never saw it but it must be. That’s surely Mel Brooks in the middle.
(The guy second from right looks a lot like Gene Wilder. But he’s not in the credits for HotWPt1 as given on IMdB. Did they miss something?)
Deus Ex Machina
Actually, this isn’t a Catholic (or even a Christian) term. It’s from Roman theater, and the “deus” is one of them thar “pagan gods” that flew down (via the machine) to fix a hopelessly convoluted plot.
Hey, in the background isn’t that Torquemada from History of the World Part 1?
Yes, yes it is. Torquemada and the rapping monks…ah…good times…
Actually, this isn’t a Catholic (or even a Christian) term. It’s from Roman theater, and the “deus” is one of them thar “pagan gods” that flew down (via the machine) to fix a hopelessly convoluted plot.
Yeah, I know. I was just seeing if anyone was paying attention. The best (and least-Greek) production of Antigone that I have ever seen cut out the ending and left the cast to live out normal lives in the hell of their own making. Every time that I catch myself hoping that the tragedy that has been the Bush Administration will have a Deus ex Obama denouement, I have to remind myself that history isn’t very Aristotelian.
[peers around the room, hoping for vodka]
Shorter Nooner:
Womb boogers let me sleep at night with the hectoliters of blood I have on my hands.
“It was WAY better in the 12th century, much higher quality stuff.”
For that matter, so was torture.
I could have sworn you used that before, but it was actually the original line (and about the Divine Miss M, pictured with fire shooting out her butt or something).
I’d like to know what he has to say AFTER reading AND thinking about the Church’s opinion on torture. Or maybe I would rather watch “The Fairly Odd Parents” with my kid.
As for ProChoice = For Abortion, the answer is “sometimes”. ProChoice also means PRO Sex education, PRO condom distribution, Pro inexpensive birth control pills or injection, Pro inexpensive quality Child Care, Pro Higher Minimum Wage, Pro Women getting Equal Pay for Equal Work. and so on and on.
(The guy second from right looks a lot like Gene Wilder. But he’s not in the credits for HotWPt1 as given on IMdB. Did they miss something?)
Gene Wilder’s not in History of the World Part 1– he and Mel had very much gone their separate ways by that point.
“Auto-da-Fé, what’s an Auto-da-Fé?”
“It’s what you oughtn’t to do but you do anyway!”
The fact is, if you support abortion, you cannot be against torture.
Gary, you wouldn’t know a fact if one bit you in the ass.
Gavin: thanks for the Milton quote!
For that matter, so was torture.
Yeah, waterboarding is pretty weak sauce compared to being torn to bits with red-hot pliers while stretched on a rack. And yet it still manages to be morally repugnant!
I think the same kinds of people were condemning porn and condoning torture in the 12th century as today, too.
I think the same kinds of people were condemning porn and condoning torture in the 12th century as today, too.
Let’s see.
Hosni Mubarak.
Bandar bin Sultan.
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad.
James Dobson.
John Bolton.
John Yoo.
What part of this fucking criminal travesty are you missing?
mikey
‘K, waitaminute, that was really poorly worded.
Point was, there’s not a whit of difference between the twelfth century thugs that flayed people alive, the people who flew those planes into those buildings and the fuckwads like Dobson. They want EXACTLY the same things, and it’s IMPOSSIBLE to not see that.
They want the same society, the same thing for women, the same justice system, the same legal structures, and yet they continue to call for the the death of the other.
Man, this is some weird shit, eh?
mikey
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,”Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of God or baptist church of teh Lord?” He said, “Baptist church of God!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of God, or are you reformed baptist church of God?” He said,”Reformed Baptist church of God!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of God, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of God, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of God, reformation of 1915!” I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.
Jon Parker writes
“I don’t know why but I comment on his blog more than just about any other, which is to say not much. But he’s interested in engaging in debate with those with whom he disagrees, which deserves points as well.”
I also post on B4V and don’t think Mark is a bad guy. However, he suffers from the same fault as Leo and Matt in that he cannot fathom his views are not absolute truths. This makes any debate pointless because he has long since reached a conclusion.
You are right to say Jeremiah is comedy gold. He can’t be real. If he isn’t whoever is behind him deserves an award. I like it when he talks about how he will make homosexuality a capital crime. His big plan for finding out who is gay is to give everyone a questionnaire asking “Are you gay?”
(SPOILER ALERT: Ad exstirpanda)
He’s going to piss off Amanda Marcotte?
It’s strange, if true, that the Catholic Church is attempting to do away with all euphemisms. What will the Holy Ghost be called now?
Bill Bailey – “You get somebody to explain the Trinity to you, they’ll say “Well God, he’s God, and Jesus is God as well, and the Holy Spirit is…(mumbles indistinctly)”. “What?” “He’s the fecund spirit of the Lord who impregnates Mary, then gets a bit up himself and is reduced to light clerical duties?” Let’s examine that in joke form: three male divine natures go into a cosmic essence, giving and receiving love, but not in a gay bishop way, to which the whole of Islam goes “Wha?”; Hinduism: “Nah!”; or Buddhism: “Ssh!”.”
I like how Obama’s housing failure is that landlords don’t maintain their properties if their tenants don’t have market power, and haven’t for … Well, ever.
Awesome.
You can put someone through a lot of pain without leaving a mark, dumbass. Let me just get my bag of oranges and show you.
‘the left’ doesn’t follow the spiritual leadership of the Vatican
Right, I forgot that left-wing Catholics don’t exist.
*vanishes*
To be fair, he did say “of the Vatican”, and The Vatican is currently headed by a guy who’s been dead-set against liberation theology and the ordination of women since at least the 1980s.
Oops, that was me.
Right, I forgot that left-wing Catholics don’t exist.
Actually, according to Nooners, they don’t exist. For if you are left wing, then according to his calculations, you cannot be a real Catholic even if you might call yourself one.
This goes back to his overarching conspiracy theory, which is that “the left” is a gigantic conspiracy to completely utterly remove God from society. Ergo, “the left” cannot be Christian, and “the left” certainly cannot be Catholic. If nothing else, folks on the left are pro-choice, and that is not in accordance with the Vatican’s teachings. Of course, neither are Mark Noonan’s support of the Iraq war or his embrace of creationism/rejection of evolution.
Doctorb: He might be a tool–and I might think he’s a tool–but he’s still, as they say, the freakin’ pope. He’s still the head of the Roman Catholic Church, whether or not we agree with him, and he still qualifies as (one of our) “spiritual leaders.”
Principal Blackman: So there are no pro-life left-wingers? I was unaware that this was the litmus test for being a liberal. Forget social justice, forget poverty, forget peace–the bottom line is how you feel about fertilized eggs, eh?
Also, the comment I quoted was Gavin’s, not Mark Noonan’s. And in any case, I’m willing to bet Noonan *does* think left-wing Catholics exist–we’re just “bad Catholics” who dare to look at the whole of Catholic social teaching instead of focusing exclusively on the rights of zygotes. And judging by your assumptions here, it seems you feel the same way.
So there are no pro-life left-wingers?
Of course there are. I didn’t mean to imply that I think there aren’t.
I’m willing to bet Noonan *does* think left-wing Catholics exist–we’re just “bad Catholics” who dare to look at the whole of Catholic social teaching instead of focusing exclusively on the rights of zygotes. And judging by your assumptions here, it seems you feel the same way.
I don’t feel the same way at all. Frankly, my agnostic ass doesn’t really care about these “good vs. bad Catholic” squabbles, which are something for Catholics to hash out amongst themselves, except insofar as they get used as political or social weapons. But I think that if anybody in this equation is a “bad Catholic,” it’d be Mark Noonan because he’s 100 percent invested in the dogma without bothering to look at what’s behind it, and also because he’s fixated on one issue–zygotes–to the exclusion of the other stuff you mentioned (poverty, social justice, etc.). He strictly adheres to the letter of the law without caring about the spirit of it.
But Noonan has repeatedly said that left-wing Catholics are not true Catholics because they don’t adhere to the dogma like he would like them to. It’s not that you’re “bad Catholics” to him; when you cut right to the chase, you aren’t Catholic at all in his estimation. His belief is that being Catholic requires you to believe a certain list of things, and if you don’t believe them, then you aren’t Catholic–either you’re all in or you’re all out, no half-stepping. Naturally, his list of necessary beliefs overlaps almost completely with hardcore conservatism.