You So Crazy!

Kudos to Michael Ledeen for managing to stuff ten pounds of the intellectual offal that passes for neocon thought into the five pound sausage casing the Wall Street Journal provided. Srsly: Ledeen has squeezed nearly every moronic analogy, utterly batshit conviction, shopworn trope, and demagogic twistification that neocons have had about foreign policy in the last eleventy years into this column. Pretty much the only thing missing is a claim that one or all of the many Hitlers of the Muslim world possess WMDs. But then Ledeen already used that one to great effect, didn’t he?

The first half of the essay is about the history of Western responses to Evil — how stupid liberals refused to see the awfulness that was Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin until it was almost too late. Then, Ledeen tells us, after these menaces were vanquished, much study was devoted to the traits they had in common, so that future Hitlers would be recognized and crushed, hopefully while still in embryo, before they could seriously harm their own societies much less our own. Now having the tools to recognize Evil, stupid liberals of today have no excuse in being deaf to the flagrantly Hitlerian strains of “the familiar rhetoric and actions of movements and regimes – from Hezbollah and al Qaeda to the Iranian Khomeinists and the Saudi Wahhabis – who swear to destroy us and others like us.” Ledeen, his eyes narrowing, is telling us that it’s 1938 all over again, the Muslims being the moral and military equivalent of the Axis powers (with the ideological rigor of the Soviet Union, to boot) but where appeasers of the past could perhaps plead a mitigating ignorance in dealing with Evil Regimes that were unlike any before in history, appeasers of the 2000s must have other reasons for their… umm, treason. And he’s gonna tell us about them.

One is the deep-seated belief that all people are basically the same, and all are basically good. Most human history, above all the history of the last century, points in the opposite direction. But it is unpleasant to accept the fact that many people are evil, and entire cultures… can fall prey to evil leaders and march in lockstep to their commands.

Appeasement because of a hippie, faggoty, Quakery faith in human decency. Appeasement because of a girlish aversion to necessary ruthlessness. Appeasement because of an insistence on reason, instead of the proper course of adopting the enemy’s fanaticism.

This is not merely a philosophical issue, for to accept the threat to us means – short of a policy of national suicide – acting against it. As it did in the 20th century, it means war. It means that, temporarily at least, we have to make sacrifices on many fronts: in the comforts of our lives, indeed in lives lost, in the domestic focus of our passions – careers derailed and personal freedoms subjected to unpleasant and even dangerous restrictions – and the diversion of wealth from self-satisfaction to the instruments of power. All of this is painful; even the contemplation of it hurts.

Appeasement because liberals are too squeamish to entertain — let alone take — the necessary and painful steps to destroy the enemy. Translated from the wingnutese, what Ledeen is saying is that liberals are selfish and pussified for not agreeing to shred the Constitution, send kids off to die, or accept war-instigated economic depression for the sake of a (greatly expanded) War on Terra.

Then there is anti-Semitism… There is little if any condemnation [of it] from the West, and virtually no action against it, suggesting, at a minimum, a familiar Western indifference to the fate of the Jews.

Appeasement because liberals are anti-Semites and, no doubt, huge fans of the Holocaust.

Finally, there is the nature of our political system. None of the democracies adequately prepared for war before it was unleashed on them in the 1940s. None was prepared for the terror assault of the 21st century. The nature of Western politics makes it very difficult for national leaders – even those rare men and women who see what is happening and want to act – to take timely, prudent measures before war is upon them….

Then, as now, the initiative lies with the enemies of the West. Even today, when we are engaged on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, there is little apparent recognition that we are under attack by a familiar sort of enemy, and great reluctance to act accordingly. This time, ignorance cannot be claimed as an excuse. If we are defeated, it will be because of failure of will, not lack of understanding. As, indeed, was almost the case with our near-defeat in the 1940s.

Finally, appeasement because of the goddamned democratic system we have. If only we had a system where a strong man — you might even say as steel man — could sweep aside public opinion and a slow-moving bureaucracy, ignore dissent and parliamentary obstacles in order to freely exercise his will, then we’d triumph over our freedom-hating, democracy-loathing enemies!

 

Comments: 166

 
 
 

The fact is, human decency is overeated. Kill them all and let my left nut sort it all out.

 
 

there is little apparent recognition that we are under attack by a familiar sort of enemy, and great reluctance to act accordingly
That would include introducing war taxes and a draft.

 
 

Its like a shit pretzel or a turd mobius strip.

 
 

This is not merely a philosophical issue, for to accept the threat to us means – short of a policy of national suicide – acting against it. As it did in the 20th century, it means war.

This means WAR!!! Ledeen is a Groucho Marxist, after all.

 
 

Man I wish I had the necessary Hitler-sense that Leeden (or any neocon for that matter) does. Then I could look into the eyes of various world leaders and/or insurgent groups and proclaim that they too had the potential to be Munich 1938. I think it would be super-fun at parties.

 
Principal Blackman
 

I guaran-fucking-tee you that Mark Noonan will approvingly link to this, saying that Ledeen “gets it” and has given those damn filthy liberals what-for.

 
 

So, what we need is Triumph of the Will?

 
 

Ah, ol Julius Streicher here just doubling down, waiting for another Iranian con man to ball. There has never been a safer path than doing the opposite of what Michael Leeden says.

When he goes down — and I’m now betting a [Larry] Franklin he will (SOMEONE has to get some serious jail time after this 8 year clown show) — Leeden will show all the class and intellect of his station.

 
Innocent Bystander
 

Hopefully, with a little luck, LeDeen can make this very case to the international war crimes tribunal at the Haag. Lets see if they buy this line of reasoning.

 
 

istupid liberals refused to see the awfulness that was Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin until it was almost too late.
Sure, all the members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade that fought against Hitler’s spring training in Spain were Republicans.

 
 

Hokay, buncha shit. But two things leap out. One, from Boot, it’s interesting, is it not that of all the moral, courage and patriotic shortfalls he lists america as falling victim to once again, he himself suffers from none of them? He is the hard-hearted, clear eyed visionary who can recognize the vast power of the evil arrayed against us, and can only hope that his voice, crying, as it is, in the wilderness, might eventually be heard in time. My goodness.

Second, from the Ruppert.

Overeated?

What is that, LOLRepub?

I haz overeated. Look at my burp.

mikey

 
 

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I don’t know, I agree with this part: “But it is unpleasant to accept the fact that many people are evil, and entire cultures… can fall prey to evil leaders and march in lockstep to their commands.”

Course it applies to our culture to. Although it could be they’re not really evil. Just stupid.

 
 

Oopps. It’s not max boot. It’s michael ledeen.

Ah well. You can see where one might make that mistake..

mikey

 
 

“Although it could be they’re not really evil. Just stupid.”

The past seven years illustrate baldly that this is a false dichotomy.

 
 

The nature of Western politics makes it very difficult for national leaders – even those rare men and women who see what is happening and want to act – to take timely, prudent measures before war is upon them…

Yeah. There’s no way current Western leadership could just up and start a war with someone if they felt they needed to.

 
 

Ve are nott Western!

 
 

Psst. Ledeen, yeah you. C’mere. C’mon over heah, ze got sumpin to tell ya.

Arabs is Semites too. Doan tell noone I tole u dat, k?

 
 

Why is it that the crazy-ass bastards want to keep doing things politically in America? Can’t they just move out of the country to some place where they can hump slaves and pretend they’re kings? Why didn’t the Bush clan just move to Somalia with a bunch of Blackwater guards and clear brush and chop off heads there?

 
 

They’re doing it over here so they don’t have to do it over there.

 
Shorter Michael Ledeen
 

If it wasn’t for me and Cheney, you’d all be speaking Farsi right now.

 
 

The nature of Western politics makes it very difficult for national leaders … to take timely, prudent measures before war is upon them…
Fortunately it is no obstacle to rushed and imprudent measures.

 
 

It’s like failure became sentient and wrote an article about itself.

 
 

If it wasn’t for me and Cheney, you’d all be speaking Farsi right now.
?? ????????

 
 

… and WordPress’ inability to display Farsi is the best proof of that!

 
 

Off topic, but I had to have my 14-year-old dog put down today and I can’t turn off the waterworks.

On the other hand, my spouse’s latest PET scan results came back today, and it’s all negative (i.e., good).

If there’s a joke in there somewhere, I don’t want to hear it. I’m now in the process of drinking liberally.

 
 

You know, some people insist that Leo Strauss isn’t really the intellectual father of the neocons, that it’s all about Fukiyama and his ‘yay democracy!’ rhetoric. Ledeen here proves that the mythologyness of the scarier of the two neoconservatisms has been greatly exagerated.

 
 

If only we had a system where a strong man — you might even say as steel man — could sweep aside public opinion

Nice Stalin reference there. 😉

 
 

there is little if any condemnation [of it] from the West, and virtually no action against it, suggesting, at a minimum, a familiar Western indifference to the fate of the Jews.

So, um, the way I understand this is basically “Teh EVIL MOOSLIMS want to KILL US, but we don’t do anything about it because we hate Jews”

Is that really his argument? Or are we all supposed to be Jews, and hating on ourselves, or…

 
 

As an aside, doesn’t it look like McCain’s people crudely blotted out Ahmadinejad’s teeth in this banner ad?

 
 

FGFM said,

June 10, 2008 at 2:06

As an aside, doesn’t it look like McCain’s people crudely blotted out Ahmadinejad’s teeth in this banner ad?

It sure does. I’m surprised they didn’t draw on thick glasses, bucked teeth, a swastika on the forehead, googly eyes and a balloon caption reading, “I smell”.

 
 

Speaking of banner ads, you should click on Teh Enemy’s ads every chance you get. Encourage your friends to do so as well, Start a movement.

Every penny I can make them waste is two seconds well spent.

 
 

Ledeen’s epitaph: “faster, faster!”.

 
 

PeeJ said,

June 10, 2008 at 2:16

Speaking of banner ads, you should click on Teh Enemy’s ads every chance you get. Encourage your friends to do so as well, Start a movement.

Every penny I can make them waste is two seconds well spent.

Good idea. Plus, if the banner somehow accidently wound up on a site/blog you like, you’re giving that site money for clicking. It’s a win-win!

 
 

plutocrat said,

June 10, 2008 at 2:24

Ledeen’s epitaph: “faster, faster! pussycat! kill! kill!”.

Fixed.

 
 

“As an aside, doesn’t it look like McCain’s people crudely blotted out Ahmadinejad’s teeth in this banner ad?”

Is there ANYTHING those stupid fuckers can do competently? Besides insinuating darkly about Obama’s ghetto elitism of course.

 
 

Good idea. Plus, if the banner somehow accidently wound up on a site/blog you like, you’re giving that site money for clicking. It’s a win-win!

Heh. I saw that very ad this morning at TPM. I clicked. Spoofed my IP and clicked again. Thought to myself, that’s neat – I should write a Perl script… I’m working on it.

 
 

Is this Ledeen?

If not, there’s a photoshop just waiting to happen.

 
 

Above all, we have sought answers to several basic questions: Why did the West fail to see the coming of the catastrophe? Why were there so few efforts to thwart the fascist tide, and why did virtually all Western leaders, and so many Western intellectuals, treat the fascists as if they were normal political leaders, instead of the virulent revolutionaries they really were? Why did the main designated victims – the Jews – similarly fail to recognize the magnitude of their impending doom? Why was resistance so rare?
Survey sez: Prescott Bush

 
 

Shorter Michael Ledeen said,
If it wasn’t for me and Cheney, you’d all be speaking Farsi right now.

Longer Ledeen’s refusal to learn Farsi, despite the benefit it would provide to his day-job of commenting on Iranian affairs, shows the strength of his commitment to the struggle.

 
 

I think the best way for Ledeen to get us to take his ideas seriously is to have his former P2 fascist friends in Italian intelligence badly fake some papers from a small, poor African nation wherein a guy who’s no longer prime minister acts like he’s working toward delivering hundreds of tons of low grade uranium via trucks over the African continent given that the evil recipient is in a no-fly zone — all the more unusual given that the evil recipient already possesses thousands and thousands of tons of low grade uranium and never ever lacked it.

 
dim-witted badger
 

fucking post-structural teakettle pelicans

 
 

Problem with “be prepared” is of course that for 9-11, we were prepared. Intel services both in the US and abroad warned Bush that 9-11 was on the way (“Hair on fire” – Tenet), problem was the negligence, incompetence and dereliction of duty on Bush’s part.

 
Enraged Bull limpet
 

Yo, PeeJ– I see you’ve been hanging on this thread. That camera you picked up the other day wouldn’t happen to be a 5mp Canon in a slightly undersized case, would it?

 
 

Ummmmmmm could be. Did you have some pix in it of peoples toothbrushes sticking out your ass?

 
 

we have to make sacrifices on many fronts… the diversion of wealth from self-satisfaction to the instruments of power.
Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat.

 
 

Ledeen: …it means war. It means that, temporarily at least, we have to make sacrifices on many fronts: in the comforts of our lives, indeed in lives lost, in the domestic focus of our passions – careers derailed and personal freedoms subjected to unpleasant and even dangerous restrictions

Gotta love this guy’s retro shtick (Is that blood dripping from his fangs?). Somebody must have told him that shopping is the new ‘keep the home fires burning’. And not just on Super Saver Tuesdays.

 
 

Why didn’t the Bush clan just move to Somalia with a bunch of Blackwater guards and clear brush and chop off heads there?

Well…

 
White Male, Jew of Liberal Fascism
 

we have to make sacrifices on many fronts…

Well, yes, except the sacrifice of paying, you know, “war taxes”.

Or the sacrifice of having somebody enlist that’d have the name, you know, “Ledeen”, on their uniform.

But other than that—yes!!! SACRIFICES!!!!

(Well, at least, those stupid liberals should make ’em; I’m way too busy thinking in my think tank.)

 
 

Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat.
True, but lard will make us happy.

 
 

I was outside.

But there’s a bunch of ants on the sidewalk. They seemed to have some kind of ant agenda, based on a fundamentalist ant ideology.

The started marching toward me. Lines of ’em, hundreds, maybe thousands. I felt helpless, and all around me, people seemed willing to appease them.

So I came inside to watch TV…

mikey

 
 

The most disturbing thing about Ledeen’s paranoid ramblings are that they have become an acceptable mainstream point-of-view. These are nearly the same poorly mimeographed opinions one could receive by mail from the John Birch Society thirty years ago.

For neo-cons every enemy is Hitler and every conflict is WWII. They seem to relish in pointing the finger of antisemitism at every turn. In the past 12 months, I have heard more references to Hitler, Stalin, and the Holocaust then I have in the past 40 years by politicians and pundits. It’s really pretty sickening, as diminishes the horror and carnage of those events. I’ve often wondered why someone hasn’t stood up to these people and asked them how they can sleep at night after trading on the suffering of so many for their political gain.

 
 

fucking post-structural teakettle pelicans

That would make an excellent watercolor!

 
 

Or the sacrifice of having somebody enlist that’d have the name, you know, “Ledeen”, on their uniform.

His daughter did, you know, go to Iraq. She handed out wads of money to…well, she’s not sure who she handed it out to, but they seemed deserving. Sorry she forgot to write down their names.

 
 

Smut Clyde said,

June 10, 2008 at 3:03

we have to make sacrifices on many fronts… the diversion of wealth from self-satisfaction to the instruments of power.
Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat.

I saw a Nazi propaganda poster from the latter years of the war in some book. The poster was a variation on this quote… it was something like: “Steel [or maybe it was iron] will make us strong; butter will make us fat”. The poster was supposed to be for a metal drive, and it was creepy and surreal as hell: it was a picture of a family in a kitchen eating anvils, guns, and miniture ships and planes.

 
 

MzNicky, sorry about the bad news, happy about the good.

Ledeen is right about one thing. There was a faction in the US during the late thirties, who felt Hitler was a good businessman, nothing to worry about there, and certainly nothing the US should get their Uncle Sams in a bunch about, they wanted to “isolate” us from this looming threat, in fact they were called “Isolationists” and fought a certain President who wanted to be prepared most vociferously…. what were they called again… a certain political party… on the tip of my tongue…

Oh, yeah!

Republicans.

The lack of self-awareness is so stupendous it’s a wonder he can muster the corporeality to make the keys on his computer depress.

 
 

Again with the claims about personal sacrifice… about which Leeden is an expert.

 
 

what were they called again…

Prescott Bush.

 
 

PeeJ said,

June 10, 2008 at 3:20

Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat.
True, but lard will make us happy.

Awesome!

But I see your lard, and raise.

 
 

Near defeat in the 1940’s? Uh, does he mean the US? I hope hes talking about Britain.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but is this the same Michael Ledeen, the one who was likely duped by Iranian intelligence in the lead up to the war?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/40080.html

 
 

She handed out wads of money to…well, she’s not sure who she handed it out to…

– I remember it was all stacked nicely on pallets…I signed the waybill…after that it gets kind of blurry…

 
 

Lard may make us happy, but chicken fat will make us better!

 
dim-witted badger
 

The lack of self-awareness is so stupendous it’s a wonder he can muster the corporeality to make the keys on his computer depress.

To be fair, if you were a key on his keyboard, you’d be pretty depressed, too. Come on, having to be the first to witness such dreck…

 
 

ittdgy – I’m too spifflicated already to play that game. I concede, with all the graciousness I can muster. Which aint much.

somewhat OT: I wuz jus watching teh CBS news and they had several people complaining ’bout how much gas wuz costing. Forgive me for being such a dick but my first thought was, “If y’all lost 250 lbs. you’d save a lot in gas. Twixt you and the “little” woman, 300 or 400 lbs. woudn’t be much of a stretch, ya know?”

I’m a bad person.

 
 

PeeJ.

Some of us are just big boned…

mikey

 
 

The nature of Western politics makes it very difficult for national leaders – even those rare men and women who see what is happening and want to act – to take timely, prudent measures before war is upon them….

doesn’t explain how george bush could fail to take timely and prudent measures AFTER the war is upon us

none of this explains how repuglitards could attack the wrong country, or try to continue a wasteful illegal war

it’s fucking gibberish

 
 

I saw a Nazi propaganda poster from the latter years of the war in some book.
Hurrah, the butter is finished!

 
 

[BANG BANG BANG]

Goddammit I bought this fucking Ledeen-brand Irony Meter and it does NOTHING. NOTHING!!!

FUUUUUUUCK!!!

[BANG BANG BANG]

 
 

mikey,

some of us are just fucking fat.

I could drop thirty or so pounds and my bones wouldn’t be sticking out like some camp refugee. I’m hardly the widest lad on the bus, either.

 
 

Ok, that propaganda poster is just weird.

Pretty sure that mom’s gnawing on a set of handlebars and the infant’s chowing down on an axe.

At this point, I’m left with nothing but to quote Keanu Reeves.

Whoa…

mikey

 
 

Smut Clyde said,

June 10, 2008 at 3:53

I saw a Nazi propaganda poster from the latter years of the war in some book.

Hurrah, the butter is finished!

Yeah, that was the one!

 
 

hokay lil’ limpety thang. I dinna mean to be so….snarkicontrariolicious.

And godddddddddddddamnit, I really wanted that opening: “No, I don’t”… “Now you do.” [see above]

No respect, no respect at all. I can give you your camera at say, 23 Hoyt where they have a truly great happy hour.

 
 

Whoa…

I’m with you 110%.

Is there a translation of this that could possibly make it make sense?

 
 

PS – O’Bama is an IRA plant!

 
 

mikey said,

June 10, 2008 at 3:58

Ok, that propaganda poster is just weird.

Pretty sure that mom’s gnawing on a set of handlebars and the infant’s chowing down on an axe.

The General Hindenberg throw pillow on the couch is a nice touch.

 
 

One is the deep-seated belief that all people are basically the same, and all are basically good.

I used to think that, but I started to doubt this soon after I began having close encounters with neo-cons. After a couple of years reading various Blags, I know I was naive to ever think such a thing.

Now I know some people are evil fucks and it is my duty as a God-Fearing American to kick them so hard their junk becomes lodged in their left ear. Here Ledeen, Ledeen, Ledeen…

 
 

The General Hindenberg throw pillow on the couch is a nice touch.
And now a version by Siouxsie and the Banshees!

a Nazi propaganda poster

You might want to look at the Wikipedia entry for John Heartland.
I’ve been to the 2005 exhibition of Heartfield’s work at the Tate Modern, and to his grave in Berlin. Not that I’m an admirer or anything.

 
 

justme said,

June 10, 2008 at 4:03

Is there a translation of this that could possibly make it make sense?

From a Babelfish translation and what I remember from what the book said (still can’t remember which book I saw it), the quote is something like “Iron made the Reich strong, butter and schmaltz* always made the People fat”

* Schmaltz is a type of fat made from chicken or goose used for cooking… sort of the German/Polish/Yiddish equivalent of lard.

 
 

One is the deep-seated belief that all people are basically the same, and all are basically good.

This is something the wingers are often all frothy about, and as usual, they don’t have it correct.

I think it’s fair to say that classic liberalism is about the potential of people to be good, and the role of society to not thwart that. Given such, most people can contribute to society, and treat others with care and respect.

Day-um! No wonder they find liberals so frightening.

 
 

The ‘butter is gone, hurrah’ poster is actually not official Nazi propaganda, but a satire of said propaganda by the German Communist anti-Nazi artist John Heartfield.

Originally born ‘Harzfeld’, Heartfield anglicised his name out of disgust at what his country had become under Shickleburger and his minions.

(as a staunch, KPDer, however, he must have been fairly keen on Djugashvili and his so-called mates, alas. . . )

 
 

Warning the Yankee public about the neo-Hitlers of the Mooslim Conspiracy?
Pretty rich sauce … coming as it does from a guy that once enthusiastically sucked up to Mussolini in his so-called essays. With a track-record like that, is it any wonder he’s yearning for a strong leader to unite his degenerate nation & lead it to a new era of purity & power? Sorry, ML, the Germans & Japanese already tried that – & the world barely survived their Grand Experiment.
This is the same chump who sold the media on the “fact” that the KGB had Pope John Paul II shot – yep, those fascist Gray Wolves just loved them some Commies, alright. Wasn’t he singing this same diarrhea-ballad about the Satanic Sandinistas about to conquer Central America back in the 80s, too? Their tornado of bunk has been twirling for so long now, I’m losing track of which lie-pimping think-tank twirp spat out which whopper.
Think-tanks: the REAL Weapons of Mass-Destruction.

 
 

BREAKING: I’ve analyzed the tape and it appears that after Griffey Jr. hit his 600th career homerun this evening, the slugger touched fists with Adam Dunn. Where is the MSM on this?!?!?!223eds

 
 

When he goes down — and I’m now betting a [Larry] Franklin he will (SOMEONE has to get some serious jail time after this 8 year clown show) — Leeden will show all the class and intellect of his station.

I’m thinking livecasting on the Jerry Springer show. The advertising fees will cover the costs of Ledeen’s trial, with a little left over to pay towards Rove’s eventual crucifixion.

Of course if those pansies on John Roberts’ Supreme Court allow President Obama’s prosecutors to use CIA-approved ‘frat hazing-like’ interrogation techniques, we can go pay-per-view and make back the $9,000,000,000 taxpayer dollars Simone “lost” the CPA.

Admittedly, if the usual fReichtard nepotism-devolution holds true (Lucianne to Jonah, Norman to J-Pod) Simone might actually be dumb enough to have let those crafty Ay-rabs walk away with all those pallets of bills. On the other hand, given the religious devotion those same CPAniks and their parents show to the dishonestly-earned dollar, a good look at Michael’s private bank accounts would probably give Swiss/Jersey/Cayman authorities a lead or three towards at least a few of those billions.

 
 

Or the sacrifice of having somebody enlist that’d have the name, you know, “Ledeen”, on their uniform.

His daughter did, you know, go to Iraq. She handed out wads of money to…well, she’s not sure who she handed it out to, but they seemed deserving. Sorry she forgot to write down their names.

Just to clarify, Simone Ledeen didn’t enlist and wasn’t in uniform in Iraq, she was there as a US government civil servant, hired by e-mail because she’d put her experience-less resume on the Heritage Foundation’s site source

 
Shorter Michael Ledeen
 

Even today, when we are engaged on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, there is little apparent recognition that we are under attack by a familiar sort of enemy, and great reluctance to act accordingly.

And I should know, because just 8 years ago as I was innocently wandering around the MidEast, suddenly, everything went black. When I came to, Iraq was raping me, while Iran pointed and laughed.

 
not even an mba
 

Fuck. Butter, Lard, Fat guys and their fat wives and their fat gas bills, fucking Ledeen whose head is pure fat, the fucking fat of vile hate. Fuck, I picked the wrong week to give up fat jokes. Fuck there’s even fucking schmaltz, and not the Lawrence Welk type either. Fucking rendered goose fat, the fattest of the foul, this the foulest of the fat joke fast.
Now if you’ll pardon me, I have to go scrub my mouth out with soap. Made from lye and FAT.

 
 

ten pounds … into the five pound sausage casing
This is actually a good description of my lunch.

 
 

BAGHDAD -Iraqi lawmakers say the United States is demanding 58 bases as part of a proposed “status of forces” agreement that will allow U.S. troops to remain in the country indefinitely.

….

Other conditions sought by the United States include control over Iraqi air space up to 30,000 feet and immunity from prosecution for U.S. troops and private military contractors. The agreement would run indefinitely but be subject to cancellation with two years notice from either side, lawmakers said.

Freedom, beaches.

 
 

If I have anything against religion, it’s that it apparently prevents these people from getting into the homosexual BDSM scene* they really want, and so instead inflict it on the rest of us, in the real world.

*Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

 
 

A man of steel from Georgia, of course!

 
 

..okay. All joking aside.
Did anyone else think that read like a lost chapter of Mein Kampf?
I know, I know.. Godwin’s law.

But it is unpleasant to accept the fact that many people are evil, and entire cultures

That’s one step away from Hitler’s rationalization that certain races were “degenerate”.

This time, ignorance cannot be claimed as an excuse. If we are defeated, it will be because of failure of will,

Again.. echos of the sentiment within post WWI Germany.

This is .. scary.

 
 

If the Iraqis want to really get one over on Bush, they should draw up a declaration of independence based on our own very.

King George meets George W.

-GSD

 
 

Other conditions sought by the United States include

Speaking English goddammit
Room service when we’re in town
Some of those little pastries with the… you know, the kind of… yeah that’s them
Your first-born unless you can guess the name Rumsfeldstiltskin in three…oops, blew the game on that one…

 
 

One is the deep-seated belief that all people are basically the same, and all are basically good. Most human history, above all the history of the last century eight years, points in the opposite direction.

 
 

I’d love to hear Ledeen’s opinion of GW’s grandpappy.

 
 

And if only England would have had a conservative leader to deal with Hitler. A respected man of the Conservative Party, not one of those spineless liberal appeasers who…

What? Both Neville Chamberlain and Churchill were in the top ranks of the same party, the Conservative Party? Huh? What’s your point?

As I was saying, not one of those spineless liberal appeasers who…

 
 

Its come to point where wonder if there is anything these asshats wont compare to Hitler/WWII/The holocaust, etc, etc.

 
Malfunctioning Glenn Reynolds Robot X-TREME VERSION
 

Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama. Heh. Indeed. We’re winning! Read the whole thing. Obama doesn’t back up the rhetoric. Dude, where’s my recession? Larry Johnson has more on Michelle Obama.

 
 

If only we had a system where a strong man — you might even say as steel man — could sweep aside public opinion

Nice Stalin reference there. 😉

I was thinking the Iron Chancellor, myself; but Stalin’s always a nice addition to the debate. 8)

 
 

But–but–but– Huh?

It was liberals who underestimated the threat of Fascism? Hold on there, Slick:

Wasn’t there a li’l thing called: The Spanish Civil War, where pretty much the only Americans who went to fight on the anti-fascist side were kinda–you know–left-ish?

Is this guy capable of buttoning his own fly? I’m assuming here that his keepers won’t let him wear pants with zippers.

 
"Oh Stewardess, I Speak 'Nut"
 

“It means that, temporarily at least, we have to make sacrifices on many fronts: in the comforts of our lives, indeed in lives lost, in the domestic focus of our passions – careers derailed and personal freedoms subjected to unpleasant and even dangerous restrictions – and the diversion of wealth from self-satisfaction to the instruments of power.”

Did a leading neo-con man really just call for raising taxes on the rich? On the rich?

What? No? [Phew.] OK, never mind. (He had me worried there for a minute.)

 
Incontinentia Buttocks
 

You know, some people insist that Leo Strauss isn’t really the intellectual father of the neocons, that it’s all about Fukiyama and his ‘yay democracy!’ rhetoric. Ledeen here proves that the mythologyness of the scarier of the two neoconservatisms has been greatly exagerated.

In the interests of the intellectual coherence of our side, pegleghippie, do you care to parse this comment?

I’ve never encountered the “either it’s Fukuyama or it’s Strauss” view of neoconservatism. James Burnham is probably a more important foundation than either of them. (It would be hard to see Fukuyama as the “intellectual father” of neoconservatism, given that neoconservatism began in the late 1960s, when Fukuyama was a teenager.)

Nor do I see what this Ledeen op-ed has to do with Leo Strauss.

FWIW, though his “end of history” routine is more a reflection of the ideas of Alexander Kojeve, Fukiyama is an actual Straussian; Ledeen….not so much.

 
 

I don’t know, is Mussolini the best cautionary example of the dangers of underestimating bad people? I mean, he is talking about Benito Mussolini, the guy who didn’t declare war until France had mostly been defeated, and who’s army surrendered and then immediately declared war on the Nazis about 5 minutes into the allied invasion of Sicily, right?

 
 

I mean, it’s almost as if he’s trying to lower the bar or something.

 
 

Wait…I thought “neocon” was a codeword for “Jew”?

That’s totally what Christopher Hitchens said or something.

 
 

I enjoy it when wingnuts invoke WWII, because they always get it wrong.

Briton was getting hammered, yes, but they were never really “near defeat”. Hitler never had any serious ambitions for invading the island (plans had been drawn up, but were scrapped fairly quickly), and even if the Luftwaffe had managed to finally defeat the RAF, the Royal Navy would have been more then a match for any invasion force the Germans could have put together. For that matter, British maritime technology and strategy was starting to catch up with the Germans, and before too long, U-boat attacks on convoys were growing less and less effective.

Of course, the thing that the wingnuts HATE about WWII is that it was the Soviets, and not us, who truly won the day and spearheaded victory in Europe.

“Then there is anti-Semitism… There is little if any condemnation [of it] from the West, and virtually no action against it, suggesting, at a minimum, a familiar Western indifference to the fate of the Jews.”

He’s saying we need to sell Israel a few hundred nukes and not ask any questions, right?
If he REALLY cared about Jews, he’d be in favor of moving them to a less-dangerous place. I say we carve out a few thousand square miles of Texas and give it to them.

 
 

“…Near-defeat in the 1940’s…”

Civilian deaths in WWII:

China-16.2 million
Soviet Union-11.4 million
Indonesia-4.0 million
Poland-2.1 million
United States-1,700

Doomed, we were. DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 

“Hitler also said he was doing the world a favor. Look, the world was loving Adolph until he lost the war.”

Shit. I forgot the point I was going to make. Something about – ah, fuck it.

 
 

This is a feisty triumphalist harrumphing, full of us-or-them kill-or-die arm-for-war. One of Ledeen’s screws must have loosened a few more turns. In last year’s blockbuster, Iran: God’s Holy Time Bomb he was still calling for an aggressive-but-nonviolent American campaign-for-regime-change in Iran.

 
 

Shorter Michael Ledeen: Fuck that Ann Frank chick, dudes.

 
 

What a vile little man.

You know what I hate? That Newspaper op-eds mostly use straw-men, rather then arguing against their opponents.

I mean, the big liberal arguments against… whatever the fuck Leeden’s arguing for here are

A) Military action is not likely to stop anti-semitism

and

B) Middle Eastern countries don’t actually have the resources to destroy Isreal, so, whatever they might want, they don’t pose an apocalyptic threat.

Would it be so wrong to argue against positions that people actually hold?

Also, I love that we get to resort to racism to make our case against Iran. Since most thinking people realise that no Middle Eastern country is anywhere near as scary or dangerous as Nazi Germany or the USSR, they have to artificially pump up the place.

So they’ve chosen to say, “The wogs are too primitive and uncultured to understand anything but violence. Unlike such rational white men as Hitler and Stalin, they’re willing to destroy their entire countries and themselves in order to hurt the jews. We can’t reason with them; all we can do is kill them.”

It’s real classy.

 
 

[…] Quote of the Day 10.06.08 // Life, Death & Taxes If only we had a system where a strong man — you might even say as steel man — could sweep aside… […]

 
 

Hey that moving Israel to Texas idea is GREAT! Stretch Israel out to fit snug between Mexico and Texas. Maybe throw in a few oil wells.

Think of the money we would save not having to give them aircraft.
Think of how much safer wingnuts will feel knowing Israel is there watching our border…

Win-Win!!

 
 

I was thinking the Iron Chancellor, myself; but Stalin’s always a nice addition to the debate

You probably knew this already, but Stalin literally means “man of steel” in Russian.

Good thing he changed his name. Iosef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili just doesn’t have the same zing to it.

 
 

Iosef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili just doesn’t have the same zing to it.

Too Jewish, apparently.

 
 

Look, the world was loving Adolph until he lost the war.”

Shit. I forgot the point I was going to make. Something about – ah, fuck it.

We can’t withdraw from Iraq, because that would mean that, and only that, would make the Republicans wrong.

 
 

Clearly, the way to recognize true defenders of America from the next Hitler is to list the ones who rushed as quickly as they could to back every 3rd world fascist they could find, and then, of course, do everything they say, no matter how crazy it sounds.

 
Libertarius ShadowLord
 

Off topic, but since John McLaughlin pointed out that Warren G Harding is (rumored) an octaroon, and therefore (“one drop yada yada…”) Our First Negro President. I’m taking this opportunity to proclaim that McLaughlin has exceeded the Bug-Fuck Crazy Threshold and is now eligible to join the Wall Street Journal editorial page. Look out, Ledeen! Johnny Speed on your six!!! Meanwhile, how quickly can Harding be exhumed for DNA tests ? I wanna see some republican heads explodey.

 
 

Off topic, but since John McLaughlin pointed out that Warren G Harding is (rumored) an octaroon, and therefore (”one drop yada yada…”) Our First Negro President.

CNN has also decided to dive back into the thorny question of whether Obama is really TRULY black.

It reminds me of that Chris Rock bit about Tiger Woods becoming progressively less black as he accumulated championships.

 
 

“…the diversion of wealth from self-satisfaction to the instruments of power.”

Stewardess/’Nut’–

That’s not how I read it. To me, this means taking the money I might invest in masturbation, and “diverting” it into a couple new cymbals, maybe another floor tom, a boom stand, and new drum heads all around.

Hey, who is this Ledeen character? I like his priorities!

 
 

..okay. All joking aside.
Did anyone else think that read like a lost chapter of Mein Kampf?
I know, I know.. Godwin’s law.

All joking aside. It’s one thing to shout “Nazi!” when you’re arguing with John Doesntagreewithyou. It’s another to call Michael Ledeen a fascist when he advocates for aggressive war, probably was involved in the forgery of certain documents that led to aggressive war, idolizes Mussolini, and calls for the destruction of certain “evil” cultures. He IS a fascist and being polite about it, because somebody might invoke Godwin, doesn’t change that fact. The guy is a fucking fascist.

Oh, and, Michael, when you “sacrifice” your villa in Tuscany for the sake of the Almighty Cause and start eating Spam like many Americans are doing now because they can’t afford gas and food, then I’ll take you seriously. You fucking fascist bastard traitor war criminal.

 
RepigsLuvOxycontin
 

Wingnuts’ capacity for opacity is like a bottomless, dry well containing only green scum.

On the subject of Hitler is where they always end up on.

But it is simple, irrefutable, historical fact that the Liberals wanted to fight Hitler and the conservatives wanted isolation.

The amount of hatred, anger, ignorance, and evil boiling away inside the average wingnut is not expressible in civilized company.

 
not even an mba
 

Speaking of off-topic, Ross Asshat thinks he can walk away from the Carol McCain thing with a McDLT. Here’s the story, Ross was asked as a family-values conservative kinda guy, what he thought about McCain’s adultery and dumping of his first wife for a younger, richer model. He takes three swings at it, each weaker than the last, ending with the statement that he’d rather vote for David Vitter than Obama. And while one of his commenters sums up the situation nicely, I suspect that there’s a lot more comedy waiting to be wrung out of the old coot.

 
 

Speaking of neocon scum, this is worth a laugh.

PNAC

Click. You know you want to.

 
 

bottomless, dry well

????

 
 

Really, it makes as much sense as a “bottomless, wet well”

 
 

Monty-

That is all sorts of awesome.

 
 

“he first half of the essay is about the history of Western responses to Evil — how stupid liberals refused to see the awfulness that was Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin until it was almost too late.”

Is this of a piece with Pantload’s attempt to claim that the Nazis were liberals?

Neville Chamberlain was a conservative. The opposition to U.S. involvement in World War II came almost exclusively from Republicans. That ultimate liberal, Franklin Roosevelt, spent years trying to get the Republicans to take the threat of Hitler seriously.

As usual, it was the right that provided us with our supply of weak, spineless appeasers. We see this again today, with Bush getting down on his knees for real sponsors of terrorism like the Saudis and Pakistan, while spending trillions in a gigantic show of John Wayne style cowboy belligerence in a defenseless, helpless country.

God, give us some relief from these evil people.

 
 

One is the deep-seated belief that all people are basically the same

But I though us nasty lefties were all about diversity, and celebrating people’s differences! Now we’re not? I do wish they would let me know when the talking points changed so I could keep up.

 
not even an mba
 

You guys still mashing Ledeen’s fevered excretions into a frothy lather? Look, no need to go past paragraph one. In an essay warning us not to ignore what history has to teach us he starts with

Ever since World War II, we have been driven by a passionate desire to understand how mass genocide, terror states and global war came about – and how we can prevent them in the future

.
Umm. Yeah sure, because before WWII no one cared about these things.

 
not even an mba
 

BTW, Monty, that brought a smile to me face.

 
 

Just more evidence for my thesis, that irrationality is required for conservative punditry. He’s a much better writer than Goldberg, and his historical examples are more learned. But the thinking, the bedrock ideology, and how they connect is just as divorced from reality *and* logic.

 
 

Since we still don’t have a new thread, I just wanted to say that this article (via 3quarksdaily.com) effin’ pisses me off. I copied my reply below:

This is a clever little feat of rhetorical gymnastics. Certain features that we interpret as key racial markers do, in fact, exist on a biological level. People who exhibit these features are statistically more likely to share the culture of the corresponding geographical area. Humans naturally seek out others who share their values, using physical markers.

That does not mean that race is anything other than a social construct. We can (and much more frequently do) identify members of our community by clothing and hairstyle.

The author might just as well have said that “royal purple” is not a social construct because the eye really can identify shorter wavelenths that we call “purple” and royalty did historically wear this color.

 
Quaker in a Basement
 

Appeasement because of a hippie, faggoty, Quakery faith in human decency.

Hooray!!

 
 

Howcum they’re called neocons when they’ve been committing felonies for a long time? Shouldn’t they be properly termed “same old cons?” Or something.

 
 

Yeah, those Quakers have tremendous faith in human decency. Nixon would be the stellar example here.

 
 

Yeah, those Quakers have tremendous faith in human decency. Nixon would be the stellar example here.

Hey, from what I’ve seen, Quakers are actually pretty cool, as Christians/religious folk go. They are usually at the forefront of antiwar/pacifist efforts and IIRC Pennsylvania was one of the few early colonies that had no law against sodomy.

It’s like saying Nixon (or Reagan!) discredits all Californians.

 
 

“Hey that moving Israel to Texas idea is GREAT! ”

I’m sure the good, Christian, Lone Star folk will willingly cede their land to the Israelis, unlike those selfish, savage Palestinians.

 
 

Then, Ledeen tells us, after these menaces were vanquished, much study was devoted to the traits they had in common, so that future Hitlers would be recognized and crushed, hopefully while still in embryo, before they could seriously harm their own societies much less our own.

This much is true. Here’s a book: The Authoritarians. Here’s another: Ponerology. Lolz at Team Bush alongside Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini on the cover. I doubt Ledeen would welcome either.

The first is free, very informative, very easy to read, and contains enough references to do some serious academic research. I may get around to reading the second at some point.

 
 

Hey, from what I’ve seen, Quakers are actually pretty cool, as Christians/religious folk go. They are usually at the forefront of antiwar/pacifist efforts and IIRC Pennsylvania was one of the few early colonies that had no law against sodomy.

Yes, you’re right about that. I wasn’t tryin to taint the Quakers, I was going after Ledeen. I grew up in PA and know quite a few Quakers. I like them. A lot. I’m firmly atheist, but I like their meetings (translation: Sunday services). It’s awesome to sit there in total silence with everybody else, each simply and silently searching their own spirit.

 
 

Thanks for the tip amk. I read “Authoritarians” and, like you, recommend it often. I just ordered Ponerology. Can’t wait.

 
 

But the thinking, the bedrock ideology, and how they connect is just as divorced from reality *and* logic.

Not simply divorced, but estranged.
Like, with a restraining order, even.

 
 

What Ledeen doesn’t seem to get is we like…umm……went to war against the ‘evil doers’ already and it’s made things kinda like worse??

 
 

To MzNicky:

So sorry to hear about you losing your doggy. I became a dog owner for the first time in my life when me and my BF hitched up eight years ago and I never thought in a million years that I could love a dog as much as I do (we’ve got a chocolate lab, they’re especially loyal and loving) I’ve often thought that I’m now so attached to this dog and feel so protective of her that I would give my life to defend her (which is kind of silly in a way….who would be around to feed her then??)

 
 

who would be around to feed her then??

You, for maybe a week.

 
Quaker in a Basement
 

I think Nixon belonged to a branch of conservative, evangelical Quakers. Not at all like the Pennsylvania bunch or the western, unprogrammed Quakers.

 
 

To save time, can the neocons just let me know when it’s not 1938 any more? It’s been 1938 for like six years now and it’s really screwed up my little Far Side calendar…

 
 

You, for maybe a week.

Ow. Harsh, but true.

 
 

He IS a fascist and being polite about it, because somebody might invoke Godwin, doesn’t change that fact. The guy is a fucking fascist.

Which is why his ‘B+ for effort, F for content’ review of the Opus Magnum Pantoloadus was so amusing.

 
 

Thanks WereBear and tontocal. He was a little sweetie. Second dog in four years I’ve had to put down. Well, I’ve still got the four cats, the little demons!

 
Enraged Bull Limpet
 

Ummmmmmm could be. Did you have some pix in it of peoples toothbrushes sticking out your ass?

Actually, I don’t remember the Portland drinkathon in such vivid detail. However, there are some early-stage shots of a Vietcong-style bamboo prison cell that I’m building in the backyard.

Now, about that camera…? Still clinging to a slender thread of hope here.

 
 

And RB: Now, was that remark really necessary, Mr. Smarty Pantz?

 
 

how stupid liberals refused to see the awfulness that was Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin until it was almost too late.

Hunh? Has Ledeen never heard of the phrase “pre-mature antifascist”?

Actually, at some points the GOP has come this close (puts two fingers almost together) to labeling certain Dems “pre-mature anti-terrorists” …

 
 

I have a bottle of champagne ready for the day when I do something necessary on the internet.

 
 

RB intends to perform something necessary on the internet involving a bottle of champagne. An Erica Jong tribute, I assume.

 
 

And as for the thread, Godwin’s prediction was fulfilled right at the start by Ledeen himself, when he wound the clock back to 1938. Not to mention his knowing winks in the direction of “Triumph Failure of Will”. It is as if he has a bet with a friend, about how much Nazi phraseology he can sneak into a WSJ opinion piece before the editors notice.

 
 

An Erica Jong tribute, I assume.

Francis Bacon. Champagne for my real friends and real pain for my sham friends.

 
 

[…] folks over at Sadly No! gave it a very kind review: Ledeen has squeezed nearly every moronic analogy, utterly batshit conviction, shopworn trope, and […]

 
 

Oh RB. I hope I get to be on the champagne list. Not that I’d want you to do anything Internetstubesulary necessary.

 
 

I hope I get to be on the champagne list.

You may prove valuable. How much passed-out pedant can you lift? Can you tolerate strong smells?

 
 

How much passed-out pedant can you lift?

How much do you weigh?

Can you tolerate strong smells?

As long as they’re organic.

 
 

Ledeen is a fool and shows no understanding of history. First, his reading of the origins of WW2 is simplistic, naive and ahistorical. The primary reason the West failed to confront Hitler before 1939 was the lasting aversion to war caused by WWI. Although it is impossible to understand WW2 w/o reference to the particular circumstances existing in post WWI Europe, Ledeen fails to mention any sort of context for what happened at Munich. Second, there is no comparison between the nature of the threat posed by Germany in the 1940s or the Soviet Union in the 1950s–two highly militarized Great Powers–and that posed by a middling regional power such as Iran. In treating these threats as analogous, Ledeen shows a profound lack of judgment.

 
 

[…] June 10th, 2008 § 0 comments If only we had a system where a strong man — you might even say as steel man — could sweep aside… […]

 
 

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