Straight talk about gas prices
The truth is, we’re basically screwed in the short term and we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Why? Because we as a nation have:
- Invested woefully small amounts in improving our rail and public transportation infrastructure – if you’ve ever stayed in Las Vegas, you know how well this has worked out.
- Remained dependent on oil and coal instead of looking toward wind, solar and even nuclear power as good solutions where appropriate.
- Done jack-squat to improve gas-mileage standards in our cars.
- Allowed oil companies to write our national energy policies.
- Decided for some bizarre reason that invading and destabilizing a major oil-producing country in the Middle East would somehow create magical oil ponies that would last forever and ever.
All of these stupid-ass decisions mean that our demand for oil and gasoline is highly inelastic in the short term – that is, we can’t reduce our consumption when prices skyrocket because no alternatives exist and we need it to get to work. The solution, of course, will come when we develop alternative fuels and admit to ourselves that destroying a national wildlife refuge just to get less than two years’ worth of new oil is not a sound solution. In the meantime, though, we’re just going to have to deal with the pain (and as someone who has a pretty long commute every morning, I know what the hell I’m talking about).
Also, I’d be remiss if I didn’t note at this point that none of this stuff is nearly as important as Barack Obama’s bowling score.
UPDATE: As justbrent notes in the comments, the sliding value of the dollar is also obviously a huge part of why we’re paying so much more for gas now than we did at the start of the decade. Also, rising demand from China and India means that prices are highly unlikely to go down at all in the future.
So we have to get off oil as soon as possible. It’ll obviously take some time, but having semi-sane political leadership will be a plus.
UPDATE II: From the Department of Grudgingly Acknowledging Credit Where It’s Due, I think the Mustache gets it right here:
It is great to see that we finally have some national unity on energy policy. Unfortunately, the unifying idea is so ridiculous, so unworthy of the people aspiring to lead our nation, it takes your breath away. Hillary Clinton has decided to line up with John McCain in pushing to suspend the federal excise tax on gasoline, 18.4 cents a gallon, for this summer’s travel season. This is not an energy policy. This is money laundering: we borrow money from China and ship it to Saudi Arabia and take a little cut for ourselves as it goes through our gas tanks. What a way to build our country.
When the summer is over, we will have increased our debt to China, increased our transfer of wealth to Saudi Arabia and increased our contribution to global warming for our kids to inherit.
The one flaw in this piece is that he seems to imply that “both sides” of the debate have been messing up our energy policy. As Rick Perlstein would say, that’s a “Notso!” The real problem is literally that we have a political coalition of wingnuts who are opposed to doing anything but sending more tax dollars to oil companies. That’s all they support, that’s all they want to ever do. That’s why the oil companies keep writing them big campaign checks.
My ghod, man, what about the HORROR that is Miley Cyrus’ back??? How can we even THINK about $4.00/gallon gas when such a BRAZEN STRUMPET is allowed to walk the streets of Our Fair Country®???
OK, sorry, time for my meds now.
…bc…
If I could find a gas station that was as cheap as in that photo, I’d be hanging up flags and streamers too!
The minute the SC decided for Bush, I was telling anyone who’d listen to buy Exxon shares.
Did I listen?
I consider myself very very very very very very fortunate that I’m able to use transit.
And I’m somewhat optimistic that this will reintroduce us all to buses and trains. I recall hearing on the radio that transit use is at its highest point since the 1950s (pre-suburbia, really).
We’re boned in the short term, but I like to think that we Get It(TM). Back to the bus, everyone! I’ll see you there.
(Ha ha, WordPress! I CTRL A/CTRL C’d! Take that!)
Brad, if you ever decide to wander over to the Yahoo HAL board, you’ll find all kinds of
Republicansnutjobs who insist high oil prices are all Nancy Pelosi’s fault.(Not sure why you would want to do that, jus’ sayin’.)
Who’s Barack Obama?
I was under the impression that Jeremiah Wright, the New Voice of Black America, was running for president?
And I’ll vote for him, gladly, if he sticks to his promises to invade WordPress.
WordPress must be stopped!
WordPress’ rape rooms are reason enough to Iran.
In California, we’d sure be happy with gas prices like that. We’re at least a dollar more a gallon.
$4 a gallon by July 4th…
…and about half that the weekend before Election Day. Count on it.
Those are all good points, but the miss the real reason for crazy gas prices:
Our government’s trillion+ war and crazy deficit borrowing to finance it have so devalued our currency that the dollar buys less and less oil every day. The MSM, of course, is too moronic to figure this out.
“In today’s news, oil prices are up again and the dollar continues to slide. What an amazing coincidence.”
I’m paying $4 for diesel already.
We have over 3 million people in this city, huge expanses of suburbs and exurbs, and virtually no public transportation. Almost everyone here is screwed.
justbrent – yes, I forgot to mention that.
Love the retro gas pump photo!
add a dollar to those prices in the pic, and welcome to California.
Just as a comparison, where I live in the UK we are paying ~£1.10 per litre, which is equivalent to $8.25 per US Gallon.
man the one time Word Press could’ve helped me out. fucker.
Do you have public transportation?
Yes, but in the UK you have at least sensible public transportation and most cities are designed more for walking. When I lived in Bath for six months, I basically never had to drive – I walked, or took buses and trains everywhere.
justbrent: it’s not just the war & borrowing that have nuked our currency, (though that’s helped) but also the inflation-hawks’ policy of keeping our interest rates obscenely low. Borrowing lots hurts, but when your lenders have to buy even more debt to get the same return, it’s worse.
And yeah, I’m expecting that the ‘petrodollar’ trading standard will be going away within 6-12 months.
Actually, you raise interest rates in order to squash inflation, not vice-versa.
Also, am I the only one who thinks that inflation is actually much, much worse than the CPI is telling us it is?
So, according to David Brooks, Glenn Reynolds, et al, the Wright stuff is the most important thing EVAR, and by lacking the Wright issue (“What’s a Hagee?”, they say), John McCain has shown that he’s fit to lead.
Am I right? They haven’t come out and admitted it yet, but this is the storyline they’ve had all along.
So. What has McCain being the fit-to-lead guy given us w/r/t energy solutions? A pandering gas tax plan that solves exactly no (0) long-term problems.
Well done, Bobo Brooks! Well done, InstaDoofus! Thank you VERY much for your help!
In the days of dollar-a-gallon gas and 18 dollar a barrel oil there was no way to get anybody to consider the idea that building public transit infrastructure was a good idea or that their Suburbans weren’t the best way to commute alone.
“Peak oil?” “The rise of China and India?” That’s crazy talk! I can’t see past the end of this week to the inevitable resource shortages coming at me like a freight train. And why would I care? I take baths in oil! I wash my dishes in it! It’s cheaper than the bottled water I buy (and then I throw away the bottles)!
Whee! Those Democrats are such downers, talking about that icky global warming and conservation stuff! I know, let’s buy a bigger house!
Really, who could have seen this coming?
Just as a comparison, where I live in the UK we are paying ~£1.10 per litre, which is equivalent to $8.25 per US Gallon.
In my small Quebec town, it’s US$5.08 per US gallon.
where I live in the UK we are paying ~£1.10 per litre, which is equivalent to $8.25 per US Gallon.
I recognize that, and in theory, I totally support high gas prices for Americans because we need to change our ways, and because we need to internalize a lot of the costs of the gas lifestyle that haven’t been.
However, in practice, my evil plan doesn’t work without support for our communities to change our ways, and the money should be going to the general fund not oil companies.
But maybe there was no other way.
FWIW, the grasshoppers are still out there, frittering away. The other week my in-laws (who I seem to bring up here a lot) were telling me and my wife that we should move to a place where “the bus don’t go,” as that brings in the scary people.
Yeah, I’ll really regret living next door to non-whites and taking the subway when gas is $10 a gallon. OneMan is dead on; we’ve been decrying knee-jerk suburbanization for years and years, only to be mocked and feared.
We used to have streetcars and tore them down to build freeways.
Well, we’ll just build them back up again. Even Houston (!!!) is getting a plausibly comprehensive rail system.
Straight talk about gas prices?
Hey, I come to Sadly, No! for teh snark.
If I want to hear straight talk about gas prices, or about anything else that matters, I just tune in to Radio MadJack, and listen to whatever John McCain has to say.
Now, where’s some ‘Shorter (insert wingnut name here)…?’
Brad
Yes, but in the UK you have at least sensible public transportation and most cities are designed more for walking. When I lived in Bath for six months, I basically never had to drive – I walked, or took buses and trains everywhere.
True (I’d hate to have to drive around Bath.. or Reading/Newbury/Oxford), but sensible public transport does not mean cheap public transport. In many (i’m tempted to say most, but I’ll resist) cases public transport is both less convenient and more expensive than private transport. And it’s not nearly as good for the environment as we think.
I don’t disagree substantively with your post, I’m just saying that everything isn’t all roses and kittens here across the pond.
testing wp, sorry
That’s the way it was here in Atlanta; MARTA only goes up-and-down and left-and-right, and the bus system really only owns if you live nearish to the city center. And it seemed like driving would be most cost-effective indefinitely.
…until now. If I were to drive to work, that’d be around a $50 fill-up every other week. A monthly limitless pass for MARTA is $52. Made the switch last fall and haven’t looked back.
Also, rising demand from China and India means that prices are highly unlikely to go down at all in the future.
It also means that we are just one small act of incomprehensible stupidity away from demand exceeding supply and global shortages. That, my friends, will be fucking ugly, also known as fugly.
And it’s very important to remember that our imperial commander, cheney, specializes in two things. One is Fugly. The other is creating the conditions for his friends the oil companies and war profiteers to reap massive additional profits.
When entire populations are torn between rioting over food and rioting over energy, we may very well find our safe, insulated little world a little less pleasant to live in.
Well, this is what happens if you send B. Hussein Obama over to bowl the Saudis for oil!
DN Nation, that’s where I live. The rail is coming, but haven’t been built yet. We’re still planning out the inner-city lines, let alone the suburban ones.
In many (i’m tempted to say most, but I’ll resist) cases public transport is both less convenient and more expensive than private transport. And it’s not nearly as good for the environment as we think.
Per ride, buses and light rail are outrageously expensive compared to driving, assuming that you have a car already. But since I don’t, I do save money on a monthly pass over what I would pay for insurance, parking, tickets, fuel, maintenence, and the car itself combined. Also, I have to think that a zero-emission bus is significantly better for the environment than everyone driving, even if it only has 10 people on it.
I haven’t driven to work in over a year. 90% of the time when I go somewhere, I either walk or ride the bus. The vehicle mostly sits in its parking spot gathering dust. And, I like it that way.
These days, the only hardship I face is the idiot drivers who are constantly trying to run me over. But that’s a risk you take living in the big city.
I’m almost looking forward to the day that most everyone is either on public transport or riding a bike, a motorcycle or a scooter.
For long distances, bring back the trains, I say!!! At least they have a bar car…
True. It’ll take time, especially when you’ve got the usual cabal of Public-Transport-Is-Eeeeeeevil racists/opportunists/morons mucking up the political works. But as we’ve seen here in Atlanta, as gas prices go up, these folks start getting laughed off the stage. Year and a half ago or so we had a libertarian think tank come up with this awesome scheme wherein the ATL would do a Boston Big Dig times 100 and create this huge network of toll roads underground. The public response was so negative I’ve never heard from the group again after that week; even their op/ed yes-men moved onto other subjects.
Attend city council meetings. Fight for it. The tide is on your side.
Better yet, here in Puget Sound in the great state of Warshington, we just defeated a rapid transit line which included road building, thanks to a coalition of head-in-the-sand rightwingers who want to build only roads and head-up-their-ass conservationists who want to build only transit.
I wanted to gnaw my own arm off.
And DN Nation, that’s our transit system you have there in Hotlanta, hope you like it!
I’ve always been pro-train. I hate to drive and I hate cities designed around cars. People like house builder Bob “Swift-boat” Perry are the ones who get listened to around here, though. We probably wouldn’t have any trains at all if the city officials hadn’t wanted the Olympics so badly.
For those of you who can’t switch, here is a tool to find the slightly less expensive gas stations in your area.
No, I won’t mention that I gave up my car last year because I can walk or take public transit 99.9999% of the time.
Oops! I just did.
But I will definitely not brag about how my work subsidizes 28% of my monthly transit pass cost.
Oops!
Seriously, decent public transit options and zoning which allows for neighborhood shops and are all facets of good public policy. Employer subsidies of public transit costs for their employers benefit the employer since they don’t need to have as much real estate for parking lots.
I know that they won’t work everywhere, but where they will work, as D.N. says, fight for them.
At least you have affordable health care. That’s at least one rose and kitten.
Even $4/gallon gas means it’s only about a buck per Molotov cocktail.
That’s still cheap for a pretty big cocktail.
On a happier note:
My roommate’s good buddy is in the shipping business at the Port of Seattle.
He said that it has been really hard to book space on boats going to Asia/Middle East because for some reason the Armed Forces are clogging the private shipping lines with cargo.
He said it is almost as hard to get space now as when we invaded Iraq…
I take the bus at least twice a day every day all month, and by my calculations it’s substantially less than what I’d be paying in terms of gas/insurance/repairs per month if I had a car.
Per ride, buses and light rail are outrageously expensive compared to driving,…
Not when you count the true costs. What does it it cost to build and maintain the roads? Suppose the cost included a carbon tax? And the superfund dollars to clean up that refinery? That smoldering tire fire at the dump? The extra wastewater treatment facilities and the big drainage pipes because of the additional runoff due to so much road surface? The ecological damage? The high incidence of cancer and respiratory disease and birth defects in people who live near inner city highways?
And on and on.
We subsidized (make that present tense if you like) the airline industry and pretty much legislated passenger rail into non-existence. We built a reliance on the trucking industry. If we could move, say, 10% of our freight distribution from trucks to rail we’d save more energy than if everyone in the country insulated their attics to a depth of 12 feet. Say we could move 20% to rail. How much imported oil would that save? How much carbon would that keep out of the air?
Even here in Progressive Portland there are those who resent spending money on light rail and what have you. “Build more roads!” they say. I say look at Silly Seattle, our neighbors to the north – that approach hasn’t worked out so well for them, has it?
ObSnark: aw fuck it, I don’t have any just now.
In southern Ontario, we pay about 50% more than what you do.
The funny part is how freaked out everybody gets about gas prices.
If you drive an average 25 mpg vehicle an average of 1000 miles a month then a DOLLAR PER GALLON INCREASE in gas prices is less than 500 bucks a year. Granted that’s enough for Sally Struthers to rescue half a dozen starving children and hand out countless diplomas, but it’s not the end of the world.
Go ahead, wingnuts. I double dog dare you. If you want to make the Republican Party effectively unelectable for the next 50 years, ago ahead and whip up a military strike in a time like this.
ride a bike.
the end.
t4toby, that reminds me of the second aircraft carrier we’re sending to the Persian Gulf, and that Iran just dumped the dollar for the petroeuro.
I have a 70-minute commute to work each day, and I’m now paying $3.99 a gallon for regular. If I try to find a job closer to home, the pay cut will be so steep that we won’t be able to live. Then I hear that my mortgage lender is going to ramp up my ARM in May (and they won’t tell me how high they’re going).
“WHAT A COUNTRY!!!!” as Mr. Smirnov used to say.
I’m with Marsupial.
$2.99 for a US gallon works out to roughly 75 cents a litre. I paid $1.27 a litre last week here in Ontario. That’s around $5 a gallon, $6 for an Imperial gallon.
We need hydrogen-fueled cars.
And yes, more transit systems are a must across N America.
rageahol said,
ride a bike.
Oh dude, I got ya covered. Better yet, it’s a recumbent.
I want to get “DFH” tattooed on my calf but my wife won’t let me.
It’s so much fun watching the SUV-owning asswipes fill up at the gas station using their gas credit cards. Finally, the assholes who’ve insisted on having gas guzzling status symbols to drive themselves and their 1.5 kids around the city in are getting fucked in the ass by the oil companies.
Oh sure, they just had to have more storage space. My ass.
“But I will definitely not brag about how my work subsidizes 28% of my monthly transit pass cost.”
Doodle Bean reminded me that transit passes are tax deductible here. Today is tax filing day for us so I noticed the deduction while doing mine this afternoon.
At the last place I worked, you got a parking allowance or a subsidy for transit passes – 100% up to $50 a month.
The one flaw in this piece is that he seems to imply that “both sides” of the debate have been messing up our energy policy.
The mustache is correct here. Both sides of the debate (“from the right [AEI hack and/or neo-con]; from the left [Brookings Institute thoughtful moderate or DLCer]”) have been messing up energy policy. Those who are not messing up energy policy are deemed Dirty Hippies Who Are Unserious About Economics And National Security by The Gatekeepers and hence are not a side of the debate as they were pointedly un-invited because The Gatekeepers are afraid of their patchouli allergies being set off or something.
This is a drum that needs to be beaten, regularly.
I used to live in Portland and never drove. My apartment was right next to the Goose Hollow MAX station and the trains were a godsend.
Now I live in Honolulu.
This city highest transit ridership in the country of cities that only use buses. Yet, rail is extremely (and stupidly) controversial here.
In the 1990’s, the Hawaii congressional delegation lined up a sweetheart deal which would have bought Honolulu a SUBWAY (not light rail, mind you, a BART-like subway) and the city council voted it down 4-3.
Now, with the highest bus ridership in the country and density levels that approach (and surpass, in some neighborhoods) Manhattan, Honolulu is trying to get light rail STARTED. The subway line would have been running for at least 5 years by now.
This light-rail is the crappy solution nobody really likes. They’re going to put it on viaducts running through town to create a kind-of heavy rail with it, and its going to impede views and make noise that it wouldn’t do if it were underground. But even so, it is hugely necessary.
But the dumbasses here are still trying to derail the project – and the whole thing has been a cavalcade of massive stupid – especially if you’ve ever spent any time during rush hours on the H-1 freeway.
The faqt is, Brad only writes serious posts now.
haha he said “derail”…about light rail.
Get it? derail?
snork.
Another thing I find amusing (naught!) are the managers in my place of employment who continue to think teleworking is a bad idea. I save oodles of time and money that would otherwise be spent on commuting, not to mention lunches and coffees out. My health is much improved being out of a toxic germ-laden work place and I’m arguably one of the more productive members of my team. Of course, there’s another member of my team who teleworks and does about 10 minutes work a week, but he’s always been lazy and shiftless.
If I were to drive to work, that’d be around a $50 fill-up every other week. A monthly limitless pass for MARTA is $52.
I’m in a similar spot. My commute isn’t that far, but it’s from Oakland to San Francisco, which means sitting in traffic at the Bay Bridge toll plaza pissing away money by idling.
Meanwhile, BART costs me something like $50-$60 a month, nicely subsidized by Commuter Checks bought with pre-tax money.
The other thing I’ve been doing more and more is telecommuting. I think that is a truly fantastic thing–so much easier in so many different ways. I get more sleep, I work from the comfort of home, and I have no commute whatsoever. Telecommuting FTW!
Hey!
It doesn’t make me a bad person!
Well, hey… a broken clock is right twice a day.
And I agree with DAS: Friedman meant “both sides” as in GOP vs. DLC. Anyone left of slightly right of center is considered a “silly, irrelevant DFH” in this country.
OneMan,
Ya can get a neato coolo DFH sticker here. I know it’s not a tattoo, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
On the bright side, if you order tonight, you can have it by Mother’s Day!
Doodle Bean, that sticker is full of win. Thank you!
It’s gonna go right on the gigantic trunk that sits behind my seat.
My plans for the next week include taking the state test to get a motorcycle endorsement on my drivers licence, getting insurance, financing and protective wear, and then running down to Scooterville in south Minneapolis to buy a 65-70 mpg People 250. I’m hoping that the dollar and the economy don’t collapse until after I sign a purchase agreement for the scooter.
I’m still wondering, who is the marketing genius who managed to convince about half the people in the country that if you jack it up on a truck chassis, a station wagon is cool.
I mean, seriously. People are driving these big ugly pieces of shit and paying through the nose to do it. I understand perfectly well how half the people in the country fell for it, because as I’ve often observed, half of all people are below average. But I want to know who the evil genius was who came up with the idea of pitching the idea for these behemoths in the first place.
This has Cheney’s fingerprints all over it….
Lazy and shiftless, I was sure your link would have been George Bush’s bio at whitehouse.gov
Well, we’ll just build them back up again. Even Houston (!!!) is getting a plausibly comprehensive rail system.
That’s exactly what is happening here in Utah. Salt Lake City had a trolley system long ago, torn out for the glory of car-culture some decades back. Then, about ten years ago, we got light rail – which a lot of people opposed but ended up being very popular. And as of last week, Utah (!!!!) now has a commuter rail line running through the most populated part of the state, from Salt Lake City to Ogden. I guess we somehow got lucky and some DFHs snuck into the transit authority.
There needs to be a try-before-you-buy system for rail – it seems that it’s often heavily opposed until the riders get to try it, then they love it. If, of course, it’s done right.
I’m still wondering, who is the marketing genius who managed to convince about half the people in the country that if you jack it up on a truck chassis, a station wagon is cool.
Not having read Keith Bradsher’s High and Mighty: The Dangerous Rise of the SUV, I don’t know if it gets that specific, but the book does discuss the astoundingly calculated and cynical marketing strategies that made the SUV craze happen.
I consider the SUV plague to be a consequence of a general U.S. cultural belief that boneheaded aggression is somehow useful as long as it’s really expensive. But I don’t really associate it with the Bush years, exactly, since I started having to dodge dumbshits driving (especially) Nissan Pathfinders in about 1994, a few years after I started bicycle commuting. Before that, I had known people who drove SUVs, and generally had some sort of need for them like a big family. But there were only a handful of them, about as many as there are now who have a really plausible need for such a vehicle, and they weren’t given to the kind of belligerent driving that became so popular.
gbear, even though you’re going for a scooter, (sorta-super-scooter if you’re feeling testosterone challenged) you should take the MSF class (or equivalent). I’ve been riding two wheelers for thory+ years and can’t recommend the MSF training highly enough. Get a full-coverage helmet and real riding gear too.
Maybe you should look for a real bike on craigslist… you could pick up a used Suzuki SV-650 (my current ride) for less than a new People250. You can actually take trips with a real bike. I’ll admit to only getting 50-couple mpg though.
Also, “hey” to OregonGuy from St. Clair Ave. here in Goose Hollow. Were you a Fehrenbacher Hof regular?
“thirty + years..”
You realize of course WordPress, this means war.
Peej, I’m getting a decent (if not super) padded riding jacket and gloves and a full face helmet right off the bat. Almost all of the miles I drive are inner city, non-freeway and pro-winding parkways. I guess I’m not buying into the ‘scooters = not real bikes’ argument despite the gnashing of teeth from my motorcycling friends. The scooter seems to have it’s niche and I seem to fit right into it. They are a little pricey but damn they sure seem to hold their value for resale.
gbear — Good for you! Scooters rock, even if they make getting some things home a little more difficult than with a car. Once you get used to being able to see and hear traffic all around you, driving feels restrictive… And you have to love not spending a fortune on gas. When I lived in Seattle, I had a Yamaha Vino 125, and figured out that if gas was $3.00 a gallon, I spent $144.00 a year on fuel… I tried not to be too smug around my family members.
In addition to your basic riding gear, I recommend:
– Good rain pants that are actually waterproof. Mine were merely water resistant and resulted in coming to work soggy on more than one occasion. Seriously annoying.
– Some of those ‘absorbs fifty-seven times its own weight in liquid!!’ towels; I think mine were called Chef’s Towels. I found ’em at a container/storage/organization type store. They really do absorb an amazing amount of liquid and are great for drying off your gear after riding in the rain so you don’t drip all over the lobby/elevator.
– A small tool-kit, or at least a couple of screwdrivers and a small crescent wrench. I don’t know about People scooters, but I could never hand-tighten the mirrors on my Yamaha so that they didn’t vibrate loose. It’s very very unpleasant to go to change lanes only to discover that your mirror is swinging in the breeze…
– Bungee cords in at least two lengths. Great for securing things like backpacks, boxes, or bundles. Things that I took home on my scoot: a 40 lb sack of cat litter topped with a 20 lb sack of cat food; two weeks worth of groceries; my brother, his new aerobed, and new bedding; a pillow, a toaster, and a big blanket. Bungee cords are amazing.
– A Givi locking box. I don’t remember what size mine is, but I could fit an amazing amount of stuff in it. Designed so that you can take it off if you need to, a Givi box is really handy.
One last tip: if you buy eggs, make sure you transport them home in such a way that they won’t move. I only lived five minutes from the grocery store, but I left with 12 eggs and got home with 7… Ick.
Have fun!
My wife used to sling coffee at the Hof and beers and Reubens at the Inn, back in the day (like 2002-2004).
Speaking of scooters, this amazing lady – http://vespa-vagabond.blogspot.com/ – did a cross country journey on a Vespa. She’s now hand-rearing a wild-born coyote in Wyoming: http://dailycoyote.blogspot.com/
Er, driving a car feels restrictive. *Wanders off, thinking about how to get a scooter from Seattle to Alaska*
5 hours ago… WordPress ate my post.
*cries*
Condensed form:
“Energy prices will always rise, and generally speaking higher than inflation. This goes for whether your car/bus etc. is powered by petrol, electricity or wingnut gasbagging. This is pretty much due to the way our society works… an over-reliance on transportation. What is required is another look at the 90’s Sustainable Development proposals whereby travel distances are reduced and transportation networks’ efficiency are greatly improved. Unfortunately everyone threw out these sorts of proposals in favour of the myth of everlasting oil, hope of unreasonable advances in technology or misplaced faith in renewable resources.
Aside: just because a transport type emits less CO2 directly does not make it more environmentally friendly. A good example of this is the extraction and processing of nickel for hybrid-drive cars (huge environmental cost and transportation requirements, and not renewable), and there are more. They require a significant level of analysis however, something which is tough to do/have funded. New technologies delay the inevitable unless they are revolutionary on the order of the internal combustion engine (or printing press if you prefer), and an attempt to move everything to public transport is no magic bullet.
This is not to say that ‘do nothing’ is the way to go, I’m not some laissez faire libertarian. All I’m saying is that we should temper expectations with a healthy dose of skepticism, and perhaps start operating under the assumption that unit price isn’t the problem, just a symptom.”
Otherwise we’ll start subsidising gas, and that’s not a good idea.
gbear–
If I may ask, what sold you on the People?
I’ve been waffling for months on end between a 50cc (no license, can park anywhere) and a 150cc (faster, bigger/safer) and Vespa’s v. Buddy’s v. any number of others.
Decisions, decisions
Of course, a nice old airhead Beemer would be cool too.
Suicidal Zebra – Agreed. I think the biggest obstacle to any solution of our energy troubles is the (deliberately maintained) assumption that the American lifestyle won’t have to change, we’ll just pour a different liquid into our ever-larger cars or use batteries or hydrogen that come from nowhere.
Still – carpooling, public transport, and higher-efficiency vehicles are an improvement.
I know I’m lucky to be able to commute by muscle power.
Lazy and shiftless, I was sure your link would have been George Bush’s bio at whitehouse.gov
Sorry.
But that’s what I’ve been saying.
I’m Lazy and Shiftless.
Not EVIL!!
mikey
Through the snow? You know, there’s people living and commuting in places other than New York and Los Angeles. Perhaps you could be a little less snide too?
Thanks for all the good scooter and safety advice. This is going to be a fun change for me. From what I’ve learned the 250 should be engine enough for day or even weekend trips out of the city as long as I stay off the freeways. That’s already a habit with me for day trips so I’m already aware of lots of great routes. My motorcycle friends are mostly freaking because I look like I was born for a Harley: 6′, way over 200 lbs, bald with a big grey beard. It’ll be fun.
Yes, bungee cords and even better, a bungee net.
Also, check out bicycle shops for sales on rain gear. We found much better prices on rain gear that fits over our regular biker duds at a bicycle shop than we could find at a motorcycle shop. And they have sales much more often.
Good gloves are also a necessity – you needhave a cold weather, waterproof pair. (Some now have a little “wiper thingy” on one or more fingers/thumbs. Fantastic idea).
NB: We “REAL biker guys” are still going to make fun of you even though it doesn’t upset you. And no, you aint gonna get “the hand-sign” – that’s reserved for us REAL bikers.
MileHi, the Kymco bikes were a bit less pricey and have a good reputation for reliability and non-fussiness. I was looking at 125s when I decided I liked the Kymco so I may have to look more at other 250s. I don’t even have my motorcycle permit yet so I still have a lot of test riding to do. I may change my mind.
PeeJ said,
Good gloves are also a necessity – you need to have a cold weather, waterproof pair. (Some now have a little “wiper thingy” on one or more fingers/thumbs. Fantastic idea).
I’ve had two pairs of those gloves and they are so worth it. Thinsulate lining, waterproof, fit like a dream and allowed me to see in the rain.
NB: We “REAL biker guys” are still going to make fun of you even though it doesn’t upset you. And no, you aint gonna get “the hand-sign” – that’s reserved for us REAL bikers.
Funny, I almost ALWAYS got the handsign when I was riding my Vino, from people on scooters and motorcycles alike. The even funnier thing was that at first I had NO clue as to what these people were doing. I thought that they were signaling for a turn… It wasn’t ’til just before I moved that I was confident enough to return the sign, so I always just gave an obvious nod. Of course, I was in Seattle, so maybe it was just A Seattle Thing? Or was it ’cause I’m a girl?
I look like I was born for a Harley: 6?, way over 200 lbs, bald with a big grey beard.
Well what did we expect? You don’t post under gtwink, do ya?
But I can’t let this opportunity pass, epecially since I’m a sportbiker and a longtime BMW rider (that’s code for “Harleys suck and most Harley riders aren’t worth shit neither)
The fact is, the only people who ride scooters around are homosexuals and college professors who are both enemies of America.
Oh puh-lease!
You people are buying into the “2 wheels are SO dangerous” meme, compliments of the plastic helmet generation.
You gotta wear what the law requires. ‘Cause they can SEE what you’re wearing. Beyond that, you’re a grownup. Don’t do stupid shit, keep the rubber parts on the road instead of your parts, and frankly, hoo cares?
I spent decades riding Harleys in shorts and sandles and a leather vest. I’d run down to the local store barefoot. I’ve dropped two bikes a total of three times. Never a helmet. Total of ZERO broken bones. Some scars, sure, but hell. Wear protective gear if you want. But more importantly, keep your head on a swivel and don’t be stupid, and keep the right side up.
You can be smart without going crazy. I guess I’ve got 300,000 miles on 2 wheels, and I’ve only worn a helmet when the law requires. Really, the point is that all the gear in the world isn’t as important as staying aware and not being stupid. My motto was always “Get there last and have more fun”.
mikey
Oh. On a bet, one summer night, I rode a Shovelhead 1200 through downtown Sacramento in the middle of the night naked. It was pretty cool. Almost nobody noticed….
“Or was it ’cause I’m a girl?”
Well, there is a certain allure to a girl on a scooter…
But I can’t let this opportunity pass, epecially since I’m a sportbiker and a longtime BMW rider (that’s code for “Harleys suck and most Harley riders aren’t worth shit neither)
Hi PeeJ.
We’d let you hang with us. But you’d probably decide we don’t quite suck so much.
No Intimidation intended. Just hey. You gotta know the difference between fun and self-satisfaction.
Y’know?
mikey
All this two-wheeler talk is all very well, but somehow “throwing someone under the scooter” is never going to sound as dramatic as “thrown under the bus”.
millionaire,
Don’t take this as snideosity but there are people who cycle to work throughout the year in Calgary (among other Canadian cities). I’ve done my share of winter cycling – it’s a minefield of icy pavement, inconveniently located snowbanks, poor visibility and rageaholic big-footprint drivers. Plus the feeling that the whole world thinks you’re a nutbar. I won’t recommend it.
If only the Transglide 2000 had caught on.
And WordPress owns a fleet of Navigators.
Hey Mikey,
If by ‘the plastic helmet generation’ you mean ‘medical professionals’ and ‘statisticians’ and ‘risk analyts’ and ‘insurors’ and ‘police officers’, I’m with you.
Otherwise, I’m just going to say that there are real reasons why we call them ‘donorcycles’.
Don’t get me wrong. We need more organ donors!
So, I’d recommend that you sign that little card and tuck it in your wallet. And have that sticker on your license if your state provides them. That way when some idiot jackass in a car takes you out no matter how careful you’re being, some good will come of the whole thing.
I don’t have a car. I ride my bike eight miles to work and eight miles back along Sierra Highway in the Mojave Desert.
I’m feeling very lucky that I won’t have to spend my stimulus check on ten tanks of gas.
It will, instead, cover about 2% of my student loan balance.
Oh, and WordPress thinks that we should get donor organs from Chinese political prisoners.
I have the card in my wallet, Bean.
And I’ll take that deal…
mikey
The even funnier thing was that at first I had NO clue as to what these people were doing. I thought that they were signaling for a turn… It wasn’t ’til just before I moved that I was confident enough to return the sign, so I always just gave an obvious nod.
That’s great. The few times when my life has actually been in danger, I act like I’m watching a re-run on tv for the 17th time, but in a situation like that I would definately end up with my face in a ditch.
Thanks for donor card plug, Doodle Bean. Those of us in need appreciate it.
And, you don’t have to ride a bike to be an organ donor.
5 hours ago… WordPress ate my post.
*cries*
Zebra, ya need to ctrl-a then ctrl-c before you hit “Submit Comment”. And it really does help to defame WordPress.
Believe me.
For example, the word “Satan” in the Bible is a massive typo. It should read, “WordPress”.
You’re welcome, MileHi. I’m not a biker, but I’m a donor. And for a short time I was dealing with billing for organ transplants — including biker donors who were being careful.
What are you waiting for, if you don’t mind my asking?
And WordPress is so petty that its organ donor card is signed “Donald Duck”.
I used to ride bicycle in the winter here in MN when I was younger and skinnier. I wouldn’t do it unless the roads were plowed full width because the car drivers would go insane if they had trouble getting around you. I also discovered that the shortest measure of time known to man is the time between when your front wheel hits the ice and when the rest of you hits the ice. Never knew you could fall that fast.
Smut, trouble with transit in MN is that you’re usually standing around for half an hour before you even get the chance to throw someone under the bus. It’s like watching paint dry.
Mikey,
Cool.
There would be oil if the ponies didn’t drink it all.
Not at all Doodle Bean. I’m on the list for a kidney. Lucky me, I have the hardest-to-match blood type, so it could be a long wait.
My stimulus check is going into the surgery fund. Them kidney’s don’t come cheap.
Fuckin’ ponies. >:(
Good luck to you, MileHi! At least you have dialysis to look forward to!
(Sorry, WordPress forced me to make that joke)
You meet the nicest people on a Honda.
WordPress is against stem cell research.
I’m hoping to avoid that delight, DB. Nasty, nasty stuff.
I can only assume that, getting on to eight years ago, Bush and co looked at the numbers and thought, “oh well, a lot can happen in eight years, and maybe the horse will learn to sing!?”
Doodle Bean said:
[…] That way when some idiot jackass in a car takes you out no matter how careful you’re being, some good will come of the whole thing.
Which is why I never rode on the freeway but once (a very very short chunk of I-5 between Renton and Southcenter that was one of the longest, scariest moments of my life) and why I think that people who do ride cycles/scooters on freeways are certifiable. And let’s not even talk about lane-splitting. *Shudder*
pedestrian said:
That’s great. The few times when my life has actually been in danger, I act like I’m watching a re-run on tv for the 17th time, but in a situation like that I would definately end up with my face in a ditch.
Me too, hence the nod. I could take the risk of wiping my faceshield clear of rain, but holding my hand out and to the side for thirty seconds or more? Crash!
MileHi said:
Well, there is a certain allure to a girl on a scooter…
It’s actually easier to ride a scooter in a skirt than a bicycle — there’s more surface-area on the seat to help keep the fabric tucked in, and a much lower likelihood of the fabric getting sucked into/tangled with gears and/or wheels.
Nasty, nasty stuff.
If you can get a peritoneal unit, it sucks less.
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Thanks for the link Doodle Bean. One can only hope for making things easier sometimes. I’ll check it out.
Right now I’m engrossed in reading about our local GOP slug getting busted for sexual harassment. Some of you might recognize him–it’s Doug Bruce, the “driving force” behind TABOR or the Tax Payers Bill of Rghts.
Your typical Colorado Springs rethuglican–pompous, bullying, immature, self-serving, sexist, racist…
It makes me smile.
Damn, MileHi.
In all my feeling sorry for my own sorry ass, it’s sometimes important to realize that the shit I’m dealing with isn’t shit.
Y’know?
Charley Mike. If you need something (other than the obvious, you wouldn’t want my shit I reckon – it’s likely toxic) sing out.
We can do some web kinda thing.
Do you wanna meet walt disney?
Cause I can arrange that. Well, his head, at least….
mikey
the_millionaire_lebowski:
look, you chose to live in a frozen wasteland. i didnt. irregardless, you can still bike commute at least 4-8 months out of the year wherever the hell you are, unless of course you live in fucking antarctica. the entire west coast up to vancouver is mostly-snow-less, and i know people who bike commute in detroit and even fucking quebec year round. all it takes is a bit of gear, a positive attitude, and an unwillingness to be intimidated by the jackass in the car behind you.
so, in conclusion, cram it.
Re: transporting items via scooter, I have just two words to say:
Cargo Nets.
Cargo nets. Bowling balls. Giant pumpkins. Kitchen sinks…
Bungie-having brightly colored thing-a-muthas.
Bingo.
Umm, I’m into the scotch tonight.
That should serve as a disclaimer…
mikey
If someone can answer this one I will be eternally grateful:
What’s the best way to get an extra large pizza home on a scooter?
Actually Mikey, I’ve already met Mr. Mouse. Got a picture of it too–this skinny, tow-headed rag-a-muffin in his hospital gown and some old dude. Ah, memories…
Like my wise maternial unit always told me, there is always somebody, somewhere worse off than you. I don’t think we would trade each other’s burdens though. We’ve learned to deal, to cope in our own unique ways–you know?
Anyway, thanks man. It means a lot.
In the 1990’s, the Hawaii congressional delegation lined up a sweetheart deal which would have bought Honolulu a SUBWAY (not light rail, mind you, a BART-like subway) and the city council voted it down 4-3.
(errrgh!) Given the way that highway projects go in Hawaii (you don’t want me to get into this, do you?) the idea of tunneling under the urban environs of a place like Honolulu (a bad earthquake in the Waikiki area, for example, would liquify the fill that all of those tall buildings are planted in) would take 4 times as long as projected and cost 8 times more. Maybe you’re a malihini but Buckminster Fuller designed a beautiful geodesic dome for the Hilton there, back in the day, and projected that it would go up in a day (due to his highly precise production methods) which the local construction union decided wasn’t going to happen. How did it get built? A guy would start at the bottom with a single bolt, would climb the scaffolding, put the bolt in the hole and climb all the way back down for a single nut. Paid by the hour, they dragged their feet until it took months to assemble. The unfortunate culture of union corruption really backhanded the Left there and put a big nail in the coffin of revolutionary architecture.
It’s still that way today here. I live on the Big Island, where we’re widening the highway to Kona. A friend of mine who used to build highways for a living calculated that the way the road was being constructed would take 180 years to finish (and he wasn’t kidding). Were you island-side when Bonk was running for mayor? The unions had talked her into a batty idea of circling the Big Island with light rail (as it would’ve been a solid-gold financial bonanza for them). It would’ve involved the condemning of a half-mile wide swath of land, hundreds of miles long, with a final cost of what had to be about a trillion bucks! All for a minute population that is easily handled by bus. We never would’ve come close to paying for the *interest* on the loan, let alone the final cost (and it was a SERIOUS proposal that she nearly won with!).
I’m all for a sane plan for public transportation but Hawaii is a different place that needs a different approach. For example, Oahu is loaded to the gills with monster SUV’s…..for what? It’s not as though it’s an off-roaders dream there, those vehicles should be taxed enough to put them out of the reach of knuckle-heads who worry about the size of their dicks and feel that they’ll compensate with an oversized 4×4. There’s still huge acreage of former cane land that could be put back to work for ethanol production (not to mention being able to make us food self sufficient here) and the State could get behind mass buys of electric-chargeable Prius’. But *public transport* is a thorny question in a time when the tourist-based Hawaii economy is about to melt down. I haven’t seen a sane plan yet, but if one came up, where in the hell would the money come from?
It’d ultimately be more cost effective to buy a huge fleet of extended vans and set up neighborhood day car parks all over the island (very little new infrastructure needed compared to any rail solution you could name) and send them all down the carpool lanes. Any construction-based solution is trapped in union nightmares (and I’m normally a very pro-union guy), a financial quagmire and the technical challenges of building in a geologically unstable area (underground sea-level stations in a tsunami zone?). I’d love to see Hawaii build an efficient transport system but the existing rail proposals don’t realistically meet any of the criteria for success.
A good rack and the previously mentioned bungie cords, gbear. I’ve seen Vespa’s from the old country that are set-up as delivery vehicles for such things as pizza. Pretty cool, really.
Hi mikey. Old stereotypes die hard.
The ‘ho and I once rode a benefit poker run sponsored by the local harley shop. I believe we were the only ones there on sportbikes. I know we were the only ones with pride stickers on our helmets/bikes. The folks treated us very nicely and we had a good time.
As for helmets, we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree. I’d be dead or brain dead (not sure exactly what the distinction is but anyway….) if not for a helmet. Although I want to say that until last year, I’d never had a serious crash on the street; mine were all in the dirt or on a race track.
I’ve only been riding for thirty some years and prolly don’t have more than about 600 K miles tallied but my eight older siblings also ride and there’s more than one “helmets are good” story in the family.
But in all honesty, I ride for the thrill which Harley’s just don’t offer a lot of. And perhaps more importantly, the opportunities to accessorize in the Harley idiom are so limited. There’s only so much one can do with black leather after all. Bright ballistic nylon, multi-colored leather togs and shiny boots and helmets off so much more fashion-wise.
What’s the best way to get an extra large pizza home on a scooter?
Umm. Wow. I’d tie it on the tank against the bars, but scooters got no tank in front.
Gonna have to get one of those cargo racks behind the seat, preferably above a lockable storage box.
It’s pretty amazing how much crap you can attach to your self.
But it’s kind of a tweaker thing…
mikey
If someone can answer this one I will be eternally grateful:
What’s the best way to get an extra large pizza home on a scooter?
In one’s stomach.
No, don’t thank me, it’s the least I can do. I mean that.
Bright ballistic nylon, multi-colored leather togs and shiny boots and helmets off so much more fashion-wise.
Eeeee.
Yep. It’s a different world. Got different reasons.
But Peej, all of that is superficial.
You’re welcome on my 4.
I’d be delighted to ride your 4, but you’d need to slow down. My bike is for fun, style and comfort. It’s nowhere near as fast as yours…
mikey
Please forgive the extraneous apostrophe in the above comment. I blame the gin.
I always used cargo nets and ratchet straps to hold stuff to my bikes. You’ll need to trim the straps to fit, of course…
You can make any pair of gloves waterproof by putting on a pair of throwaway nylon gloves on first.
Oh, I’m always ATGATT in the best armor that I can find. I have plenty of scars already, I don’t need them from my bikes.
Rubber side down,
Peter
PeeJ:
Please see my comment above re: the Hof.
So we probably know you.
Oregon guy – I had stepped out for a minit.
Hmmmm. A Reuben and a pint of BridgePort Blue Heron or maybe Mirror Pond at the Hof. Yummmmmmm.
I suspect your better half may have tossed my sorry ass out once or twice. 😉 And that from the Hof! nyuk nyuk nyuk
Oops – I meant at the Inn. Like I sed, blame the gin.
Oh yeah…and “But I can’t let this opportunity pass, epecially since I’m a sportbiker and a longtime BMW rider (that’s code for “Harleys suck and most Harley riders aren’t worth shit neither)
We don’t sell motorcycloes. “We sell to 43-year-old accountants the ability to dress in leather, ride through small towns and have people be afraid of them.” Harley-Davidson VP John Russell”
Also beemerhead here – and what I have to say to John Russell is Thanks, fuckhead. Now the rest of us have to put up with the fallout of your noisy obnoxious straight-pipe-wearin accountants. I got enough of my own shit to deal with – I don’t need an ever-growing base of pretend bad-asses gaining me a rep.
And Mikey – my problem with not wearing a helmet is that without a lid, even a slow-speed fall can kill you *or worse.* It’s one thing to die in a full-face helmet as a schmear on the side of a canyon on a Ducati at 150mph or so…and it’s another thing to be dead or vegetized from falling over in a K-Mart parking lot cause you don’t want to wear a helmet. Of course that would never happen to you. Any more than it would ever happen to any of the nine high-mileage-high-skills-high-awareness riders I know who took a tumble in the past 10 years…
It happens. They come and get you, and something else goes wrong at the same time and you know the rest. I guess it just comes down to a matter of risk *preference.*
Oops – I meant at the Inn. Like I sed, blame the gin.
Hee hee that rhymes.
It’s hard to talk about energy policy when you’ve got Exxon’s cock in your mouth.
What’s the best way to get an extra large pizza home on a scooter?
Very carefully.
ba-doom-ba! – ching
Thanks very much. You’ve been terrific. Try the veal.
Yes, it rhymes, and that’s also attributable to the gin, most likely. But what about the accessories? Are you with us on the issue of black leather fringe versus faaaabulous riding togs? Why can’t we talk about what really matters!?!?!?!
I awk’ed all the way home, only to grep on the lawn.
God damn! I’m tossing out great stuff and don’t even realize it. All this gin makes me think I may need to yacc now.
I’m sorry, I keep getting distracted by the whole “sucking Exxon’s cock” image. I mean, it must be HUGE.
I’m not saying it can’t happen. Pay attention, youngster.
I’m saying at SOME point I get to choose my poison.
And at some point I’m gonna push back.
Last I looked, that was the very free society cheney was trying to kill.
And we were trying to support…
Wacky? Huh?
mikey
Hey, I said risk preference. Name your poison. Mine’s high speed & twisty. Plus I’m easily embarrassed & dyin in a K-Mart parking lot…well, I’d blush through the entirety of my afterlife if any.
whatevahdude-
I’d say it is pretty self-evident that the Big Island does not need rail. What is the population, 175,000, including tourists?
Oahu, something else entirely.
Point is – there is a market for rail-based transit here (The Bus’ ridership shows that) and the population here is 85% crammed between Kalaeloa and Koko Head.
Plus – the tourists!
Earthquake risk is a big fat canard. They built a tunnel for BART underneath San Francisco Bay through the San Andreas Fault. Most of our earthquake risk is on the Big Island, you know, where the seismic activity and the active volcanoes are. Ours have been dead for a long, long time now.
But, as you say, a bad earthquake (really unlikely) in Waikiki would liquefy the ground that all the big hotels sit on.
Yes. True.
And it will do the same thing if there is a tunnel underneath them. There already is a big tunnel underneath Waikiki, it is the sewer overflow that the city has been putting in since the Big Ala Wai Stink Flood of Ought Six. I don’t think that another tunnel underneath Kalakaua and Kuhio would change things much. Or at all, really.
It’d ultimately be more cost effective to buy a huge fleet of extended vans and set up neighborhood day car parks all over the island (very little new infrastructure needed compared to any rail solution you could name) and send them all down the carpool lanes.
No it wouldn’t. What carpool lanes? They stop when you get into Town. You know, where all the traffic is. If you want to build more lanes, you have to deck the H-1. And that is cost-effective how? And carbon neutral? At least an electrically-powered rail system can eventually be powered by something other than fossil fuels. As of right now, other power sources for vehicles are still in the sci-fi realm.
Any construction-based solution is trapped in union nightmares (and I’m normally a very pro-union guy)
But Boston, New York SF, and Portland have no unions with any clout whatsoever. Sorry, not a deal-breaker. In fact, I rather like the idea of creating a few thousand family-wage unionized construction jobs. That could help things out on this benighted isle of mine.
a financial quagmire
How do you figure? Probably have better ridership than any new rail system out there in North America. Once they build the airport spur, it will carry tourists too.
and the technical challenges of building in a geologically unstable area (underground sea-level stations in a tsunami zone?)
There’s a lot of smart people from Japan and of Japanese descent in Honolulu. Strangely enough, I’ve heard that much of urban Japan is:
(a) close to sea level
(b) subject to more frequent tsunamis than Hawaii
(c ) subject to more frequent and severe earthquakes than Hawaii.
I bet we could give those folks a call and ask for some advice!
Whaddaya think?
YOU DON’T BLAME THE GIN
THE GIN BLAMES YOU
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I blame WordPress.
Kudos America for your Aerostitch riding suits. I get a lot of questions about whether it’s raining but they’re leg-trapped-under-bike-in-roundabout-lowsider safe and you can be out of them and in your normal clothes, or no clothes at all, in under 30 seconds. Racing leathers are great but it got a bit sad having a cup of coffee looking like a Power Ranger.
Helmet, boots, gloves – never got out in anything you wouldn’t be happy to be chucked out of moving car in.
Not sure how to get that pesky item home on your scooter? Here’s how it’s done.
Well, living in a rural area in the UK, all I can say is man am I glad I got that SmartCar. It’s almost comparable to my husband’s Honda Deauville bike in terms of fill-up cost and mileage (i.e. around £17 to fill up and probably 250 miles/tank). No transit out here – gotta get to town and work somehow. I lucked out and bought it for a song because we know the used car dealer down the road ;).
FWIW they’re predicting fuel prices here to hit £5/gal. (yes, that’s nearly $10 a gallon) soon, so get offa my lawn!
P.S. Has anybody seen that French car that runs on compressed air? There’s a company I’d like to invest in…
Funny story – My Smartie was previously owned by Lord and Lady Mucketymuck down the road (Prince Charles was best man at their daughter’s wedding). I’m sure it was all the rage at the time to have one, and it had really low miles when I got it (it’s a 2003 model Passion). I’m just having a hard time seeing somebody like that driving it…
Workers of all countries unite !
I’d say it is pretty self-evident that the Big Island does not need rail. What is the population, 175,000, including tourists?
Umm…..thanks for taking my point?
Oahu, something else entirely.
Point is – there is a market for rail-based transit here (The Bus’ ridership shows that) and the population here is 85% crammed between Kalaeloa and Koko Head.
Plus – the tourists!
Hey brah, I’m with ya, there should be some sort of mass transit upgrade there, without question, just not the particular rail ones that have been proposed.
Earthquake risk is a big fat canard. They built a tunnel for BART underneath San Francisco Bay through the San Andreas Fault. Most of our earthquake risk is on the Big Island, you know, where the seismic activity and the active volcanoes are. Ours have been dead for a long, long time now.
You’ve been on island *how long*? The entire Hawaiian chain is extremely geologically active, more so than the San Andreas Fault (which is dangerous due to the higher population centers along it. Yes, active volcanos cause far more earthquakes but the vast majority of them are tiny. If someone’s implied to you that Oahu is earthquake “safe” due to the dormancy of its volcano, they’ve mislead you.
But, as you say, a bad earthquake (really unlikely) in Waikiki would liquefy the ground that all the big hotels sit on.
Yes. True.
And it will do the same thing if there is a tunnel underneath them. There already is a big tunnel underneath Waikiki, it is the sewer overflow that the city has been putting in since the Big Ala Wai Stink Flood of Ought Six. I don’t think that another tunnel underneath Kalakaua and Kuhio would change things much. Or at all, really.
A subway would require stations at the areas busiest points, and tunnels leading to them. You’re talking about tunneling under skyscrapers that are built on land that should never have been used for such (but given the setting, money and political corruption overruled good sense). The undermining of the foundations of these buildings *could* be (in a best case scenario) addressed with high tech fixes, but it would likely add a great deal to the already breathtaking price (google the Athens subway to get a sense of how complex, time consuming and therefore expensive this process can be). Subways, by the way, are not the same thing as sewer systems, despite the “tunnel” nature of both.
It’d ultimately be more cost effective to buy a huge fleet of extended vans and set up neighborhood day car parks all over the island (very little new infrastructure needed compared to any rail solution you could name) and send them all down the carpool lanes.
No it wouldn’t. What carpool lanes? They stop when you get into Town. You know, where all the traffic is. If you want to build more lanes, you have to deck the H-1. And that is cost-effective how? And carbon neutral? At least an electrically-powered rail system can eventually be powered by something other than fossil fuels. As of right now, other power sources for vehicles are still in the sci-fi realm.
Well now you’ve changed your complaint from the traffic on H-1 to the traffic in town, which are two different things, right? Have the highways there done away with the expensive expanding carpool lane system since my last visit? How are extended vans more cost-effective than a rail system? By virtue of the initial investment, the tiny construction needed, the operating costs and the interest on the bond would be just a fraction of that for rail, as a few examples.
Any construction-based solution is trapped in union nightmares (and I’m normally a very pro-union guy)
But Boston, New York SF, and Portland have no unions with any clout whatsoever. Sorry, not a deal-breaker. In fact, I rather like the idea of creating a few thousand family-wage unionized construction jobs. That could help things out on this benighted isle of mine.
I’m all for creating jobs too, so let them be van drivers. I’m guessing you have little or no experience with construction here, because when they estimate that this project would cost 3.7 billion and take 9 years, any kamaaina will tell you it will end up costing 15 billion and take at least 20 years. A tiny fraction of that cost would buy one hell of a fleet of vans brother, and vans would be ready to go in *months*.
a financial quagmire
How do you figure? Probably have better ridership than any new rail system out there in North America. Once they build the airport spur, it will carry tourists too.
It’s a quagmire because it could *never* begin to pay for itself, would take a huge chunk of money from the rest of the islands who would see virtually no benefit from it and it’s being considered as we’re plunging into a depression that will dwarf the “great” depression, a time when tourist travel (and money) will slow to a trickle.
and the technical challenges of building in a geologically unstable area (underground sea-level stations in a tsunami zone?)
There’s a lot of smart people from Japan and of Japanese descent in Honolulu. Strangely enough, I’ve heard that much of urban Japan is:
(a) close to sea level
(b) subject to more frequent tsunamis than Hawaii
(c ) subject to more frequent and severe earthquakes than Hawaii.
The vast majority of likely stops for an Oahu subway would be *at* sea level, which, if you look into it, very few (if any) Japanese subway stops are. Mind you, if you throw enough money at any project, you can come up with solutions, but money (as I keep trying to remind you) is in short supply and dwindling. Hawaii has unique geological conditions that make it vastly more dangerous than Japan. The southern flank of the Big Island is very steep and prone to collapse. One of these collapses left evidence of a 3000 foot high (not a misprint) tsunami on the cliffs of Molokai. Needless to say, Oahu was likely affected in a rather profound way, so I wouldn’t be too casual about brushing off the conditions here.
I “get” that you imagine this to be a green solution to Oahu’s transit problems but the reality is that it’s way too expensive for what it aims to achieve (and more mundane projects would have a far greater ecological impact). As the cost of gas skyrockets (higher here than those whining on the mainland are paying), we are going to need something akin to a mega-carpooling system, right now! Virtually every rider on a local neighborhood extended van would mean one less vehicle on the highways. That’s a much more effective way to approach the problem than to commit a huge bundle of money to a project which (if my projections about the pending economy are right) will likely never be finished or even partially operational. You’ve probably never experienced life here in an minor economic downturn, let alone a major one…..because you’d be a lot less cocky about throwing big money around if you had. When money gets tight, the tourist stop flying in, no tourists, no jobs, no jobs, no commuting to work, you see? This isn’t Portland, it’s Hawaii, a completely different animal.
Go ahead, wingnuts. I double dog dare you. If you want to make the Republican Party effectively unelectable for the next 50 years, ago ahead and whip up a military strike in a time like this.
Or, a strike on Iran could actually end up reviving the popularity of the Republican party, at least in the short term. The media would start beating the war drums again & go back to calling everyone who was against it a traitor.
Also, seems to me that much of the current criticism of the Iraq war is from people hating to lose, not finding the whole idea repugnant. A war with Iran could give those people a whole new war to look forward to, ripe with possibilities. At least until it became clear that there’d need to be a draft.
We need hydrogen-fueled cars.
No. No we don’t.
Okay – here’s a question for those who really know something about ecoomics. I keep on hearing that one of the reasons gas prices are so high is the demand from China and India. But when Clinton left office, gas was about 1.00 – 1.25 per gallon. Now, however you feel about Bill Clinton, you have to acknowledge that he was highly intelligent and very well informed about policy issues. So it follows that he knew about the increasing demand from China and India, as did the oil companies themselves, and that all of the players had factored that into their supply and policy calculations as far back as the the late 90s. So, given that everyone was well aware of the increased demand back then, why has there been such a huge jump attributed to the “surprise” of India and China ramping up their demand? It seems like bullsh*t to me.
Jersey Tomato, I don’t claim any expertise in energy economics, but I would suggest that the increased demand from China and India is an excuse. The real problem is that Saudi Arabia has decided not to open the spigots any wider, in an attempt to drive up the price of oil (which has been wildly successful, obviously).
This is the problem when you have to deal with a cartel that has such tight control over supply – sometimes, they can name their price and market forces can get fucked.
“$4 a gallon by July 4th…”
Pffft. I saw $4.09 for premium last weekend in tha A-T-L. And diesel for $4.49 at the same station.
I’m sure that folks out on the West Coast are seeing higher prices than that.
gbear, I second or third or whatever PeeJ’s recommendation on MSF classes.
At the very least, you’ll get a sense of what your scoot can do in a gotta-turn-or-stop-NOW! situation.
I’m a full-face helmet guy myself, what with the New England weather(it gets cold), and the occasional junebug or hornet between the eyes at 80.
Gloves are something I’d strongly suggest – leather or synthetic lined on the palms. It’s hard to suppress the instinct to put your hands down in a crash.
Check out http://www.jcwhitney.com for inexpensive hard luggage – a top case (aka trunk) is a beautiful thing – you can stash your helmet in it too.
More important issue is whether they CAN – there’s some doubt about that.
Growth in Chinese and Indian demand is a big factor, just from basic economic pressure.
I myself have begun wondering where the big oil companies are putting their record profits, what with global financial markets kinda sucking, and the effects that has on stocks generally.
Commodities seem to be viewed as a pretty reliable investment these days, which has led to a lot of $$ going into them, helping drive the prices up quite a bit. Win-win for Big Oil – safe place to put their profits, while helping assure that future profits will grow.
Better to squeeze the spigots and spur a little innovation, no?
My understanding is that the high prices are a combination of increased demand (and the curve is steepening in India/Asia), instability in the Middle East, Venezuela’s…um…intransigence and the sense that OPEC is actually becoming effective somehow. It’s the perfect storm!
Maybe it’ll finally wake us up.
And I haven’t ridden a scoot since the 70’s but I’ve been told that the real purpose of a full face helmet is so your loved ones can use dental records to identify you.
Great. Thanks for that cheery tidbit, OneMan.
Obviously you did not pay attention to Captain Codpiece’s press conference the other day. ANWR is where the “magical oil ponies” now live!
Hmm. I’ve been told it’s so gas station attendants can’t.
Autos trucks & buses don’t run on oil, they run on gas or diesel. The demand is rising & will continue to do so – but Big Oil isn’t so much as hinting at building any new refineries – the big expensive complexes that distill oil into things like lighter-fluid, heating-oil & GAS. So it wouldn’t matter if there was 10,000 times as much oil available, because the existing refineries only have x capacity: yes, folks, it’s a gosh-darn conspiracy … it’s called fiduciary responsibility … these companies are obliged by law to produce maximum profit for their shareholders, & the construction of many new refineries would violate that responsibility.
Places with much stronger currencies are also paying much more at the pump. Like Europe & Japan, both places that have comparatively low refining capacity & are densely populated. Supply versus demand again. Supply is fixed – demand is exploding exponentially. The foot-dragging on switching to renewables is the same old greed as ever, now with all the warmth & charm of a crystal meth habit. Until there’s a real pricetag for the uber-bastards keeping it going, this evil dog-&-pony show is here to stay … it’s making them billions.
Translation: drop ’em & reach for China, & try to think nice thoughts as the mighty PetroSchwanz invades your sphincter, because I suspect the GasRape has just begun.
I pay less for my Pass & AddFare than many pay just for insurance & parking fees – & here, it’s also a tax deduction. Buses are getting mighty crowded lately & it’s hardly a mystery why. Cars suck … been saying it since I was circa 12, & now, at last, I’m not completely alone in saying it.
Have heard nuclear already being touted as an alternative. If you think it’s clean, go to a tailings-site some time. If you think it’s safe, I’d recommend a trip to the Ukraine. If you think it’s cheap, go right ahead & build your own, just don’t ask the rest of us to foot the bill when it comes time to decommission it. Imagine the potential for drama if we start making nuke-plants in a corporate environment predicated around deregulation & making it in the fastest & cheapest way possible. Believe me, there are better ways to cut CO2 emissions – like reducing consumption. Your toilet is not afraid of the dark & neither is your basement.
WordPress talked Mylie out of her shirt.
No, wait … it’s supposed to be something BAD, right?
The demand is rising & will continue to do so – but Big Oil isn’t so much as hinting at building any new refineries – the big expensive complexes that distill oil into things like lighter-fluid, heating-oil & GAS. So it wouldn’t matter if there was 10,000 times as much oil available, because the existing refineries only have x capacity:
Actually, the existing refineries are only running at 85% capacity….we don’t need any more, that’s just a GOPer excuse for high prices (i.e., a lie). The oil companies have profits so huge now that they literally don’t know what to do with the money. I say, regulate and limit profit (and I don’t give a shit how “socialist” that may sound to a Republican greedhead).
And WordPress owns a fleet of Navigators.
Yeah, but that’s just for the tax break.
Whatevahdude-
Yeah – I’m pretty new to the islands. So?
I eat poke, drink Hinanos and have family here.
Neither one of these statements has fuck-all to do with how to get around Oahu. Honolulu is urban, very densely so. And that’s a good thing, because it isn’t a very big island.
I just looked up “Oahu earthquakes,” and it doesn’t look like Oahu is very seismically active, if at all (last Oahu quake = 1948, a 5.0). If another large chunk of the Big Island falls in (like the one you mentioned that left a high-water-mark on Molokai at the 3000′ level) – we’re all doomed, anyway. The highest occupied parts of this island are at about 1500′, maybe 2000′.
I don’t buy the “Hawaii can’t afford transit” argument. Because it can. Over the long term, investments in rail cost less while investments in buses and roads cost more. Trains last longer and their networks don’t need anything like the maintenance that roads do.
Oh, and the “zipper lanes” on the H-1 stop prior to the HI-78 interchange on the mauka side of Aloha Stadium and by the Airport on the makai side. Within Town, there are no special lanes for high-occupancy vehicles. Those 8 miles (Middle Street to Waialae Ave) are the most congested part of the H-1. From Middle Street to Kalaeloa, traffic isn’t that bad. The H-2 and the H-3 move pretty well, all things considered.
Decking the H-1 to provide more capacity for buses, share-ride vehicles or whatever will be more expensive than the LRT, and will require much more maintenance, both in terms of keeping the rolling stock up (trains last longer than buses and are far cheaper on a per-mile-driven basis) and the roadway.
I drive the H-1 every day, and I would ride The Bus if I had a workable option. I don’t. I’ve also lived in many American and European cities. Some small, some big. Many which were smaller or less dense than Honolulu with some kind of mass transit option.
Life is going to get more expensive here – yes, I know, I got it. I’m the one paying $4/gallon for my 22 mile daily commute. (I live where I live so my spouse can take the bus to Manoa – this way only one of us gets a crappy commute – I drew the short straw).
But what’s funny about locals who oppose transit here (and I argue with them all the time) is that NONE of them seem to realize just how much easier it will make their lives. I think its because to most Hawaiians, the two big mainland cities everyone knows about are LA and Las Vegas. Both are dysfunctional hell-holes. But Honolulu could be a really great city (actually – it already is… it could be even better) and Mufi seems to get this and is using Portland as a model. Which makes sense.
Portland has an urban growth boundary. Honolulu has the forest reserves, military bases and the ocean. Portland is trying to grow more dense. Honolulu already is dense. Honolulu needs to learn from Portland’s livability. Portland has about 1.4 million people. Oahu has just more than 1 million. Both places have incredible natural beauty.
LRT won’t belch diesel fumes into the air and is much quieter than the buses in Town (even elevated). LRT will also encourage development along the right-of-way and will reinforce good dense building patterns we already have in Town. (This has been shown to be the case everywhere there is LRT or subways – bus lines and BRT “bus rapid transit” do not have the positive real estate development externality).
LRT probably won’t make money (transit doesn’t anywhere, except for Hong Kong) but it will cost the taxpayers a hell of a lot less in terms of maintenance and upkeep and salaries than the DOT+H-1 maintenance+The Bus currently costs on a per-user basis. Again, this has been shown time and time again.
If people are serious about keeping “the country country” then they need to keep Town livable. That means accomodating growth and providing a way for people to move around. There just isn’t room for new car capacity here. And expanding what we have would cost more than the LRT. So to me, that’s out.
I like the idea of getting rid of Oahu’s SUV’s. We don’t need ’em here.
Slow/no-growth is an okay strategy for the Big Island. Your whole island is country. But Oahu is grown-up, and needs to act like it. And unless we want the North Shore and Ko’olina to be Waikikis and everywhere else to look like Kalihi we need to plan. Pretending nothing is going to happen is what got Honolulu to where it is now, which is a pretty precarious place. It takes 2 hours to get from Kapolei to Manoa! That is a major problem which will cost us in the long run.
I’m just glad that Mufi gets it, even if the council doesn’t.
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I can still think Tommy Friedman sucks, right?
More pies, less apologia.
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We should declare war on the oil companies!! They are all getting rich and we Americans are taking it in the shorts. This is a complete JOKE. I wish I could just run into all of them in a dark alley and beat the PISS OUT OF EACH OF THEM OVER AND OVER!!!!!!! Then they could wipe their bloody faces off with all the money they have made.
it looks like gas prices will be sky rocketing this year too! i’m just glad i have my harley and i get better gas mileage.
I can’t stress enough how important it is to be looking for alternative energy sources. That way, we won’t be dependent on other countries for oil.
I agree that many of the biggest US cities would be a lot better off if there was a better public transport system that was available to its residents. I think that would help keep the air clean and save people a lot of money on gas.
I am looking into getting a bunch of scaffolding . Does anyone have experience they could share with me on this?