Wow

yoo_v196.jpg

Above: John “Whatsamatta” Yoo


WTF:

The Justice Department sent a legal memorandum to the Pentagon in 2003 asserting that federal laws prohibiting assault, maiming and other crimes did not apply to military interrogators who questioned al-Qaeda captives because the president’s ultimate authority as commander in chief overrode such statutes. […]

“If a government defendant were to harm an enemy combatant during an interrogation in a manner that might arguably violate a criminal prohibition, he would be doing so in order to prevent further attacks on the United States by the al Qaeda terrorist network,” Yoo wrote. “In that case, we believe that he could argue that the executive branch’s constitutional authority to protect the nation from attack justified his actions.”

Interrogators who harmed a prisoner would be protected by a “national and international version of the right to self-defense,” Yoo wrote. He also articulated a definition of illegal conduct in interrogations — that it must “shock the conscience” — that the Bush administration advocated for years.

“Whether conduct is conscience-shocking turns in part on whether it is without any justification,” Yoo wrote, explaining, for example, that it would have to be inspired by malice or sadism before it could be prosecuted.

icc-260.jpg

Above: International Criminal Court, The Hague2


In other words, torture is only torture when the torturer feels guilty about doing it afterward.

Which assures that the only people who will ever be prosecuted for torture are the whistle-blowers.

Joseph Heller had no idea how crazy this shit could get. Jesus H.

acanthuslsmall.jpg

Gavin adds: Well, not just whistle-blowers. That definition of torture also allows for the prosecution of ‘bad apples,’1 as with the Abu Ghraib affair. Naturally, their superiors would be unmaliciously managing paperwork and personnel matters as the blood and excrement spattered the cell walls.

Kinda reminds you of something, doesn’t it?


1 Species name: Malice domestica
2 Cue trombone and theramin rendition, ‘Wish Yoo Were Here

 

Comments: 251

 
 
North Chowderville
 

Cpl. Thugnuckles, your conduct has profoundly shocked two members of this panel.

But there’s five of us, so carry on.

 
 

I keep picturing John Yoo strolling through a concentration camp, writing on a clipboard, making sure the ovens are running at peak efficiency, not a care in the world.

 
 

In wingnuttia, Yoo is considered one of the GOOD lawyers, i.e. the kind who shouldn’t be rounded up, imprisoned, and killed. I saw him speak once, and it was staggering to see a “professor” make so many willful mistatements of law in order to support the proposition that the president can crush a child’s testicals if he wishes.

 
 

What. The. Fuck.

No military has EVER committed war crimes out of malicious intent. Any action, no matter how heinous can be justified on the grounds of “military necessity”. What he is saying is that torture simply does not exist, and never has existed, except perhaps in the basement of the occasional serial killer.

Does John McCain have something to say about this?

 
 

“Whether conduct is conscience-shocking turns in part on whether it is without any justification,” Yoo wrote, explaining, for example, that it would have to be inspired by malice or sadism before it could be prosecuted.

Ah yes. The This Hurts Me More Than it Hurts Yoo Doctrine.

But really, it’s all good. They attached wires to the interrogators willies to make sure they weren’t getting wood while they worked a prisoner over.

And do I need to go into the whole “Innocent until proven guilty and simply calling a guy an Al-Q operative doesn’t make him an Al-Q operative” thing?

Didn’t think so.

 
 

Ah, the Lady Macbeth school of government – “what need we fear who knows it when none can call our power to account?” But nobody could ever have anticipated that abandoning checks on executive authority could lead to the expansion and abuse of that authority!

 
 

If I get a lawyer to write me a letter saying it’s legal for me to cook meth because I would like money to travel, does this mean I can cook meth?

 
 

does this mean I can cook meth?

Let’s ask Megs McAdderall. I’ll bet she even has a few recipes.

 
 

a.d.b – Only if you’re going to travel to Brownpersonstan and beat up random citizens for purposes of “Self-Defense.”

Am I the only one who wonders if Yoo’s interest in crushing children’s testicles stems from a raging jealousy of those with larger goolies?

Didn’t think so.

I hope like Hell the kids at UCB are building a torture chamber in his office.

 
 

I hope like hell that the next administration hands him over to the Hague as the war criminal he is.

Sorry ’bout the attitude, Sadlynauts, but nothing concerning John Yoo is ever funny.

 
 

But I wouldn’t feel guilty about it at all. I’d be too busy enjoying Europe or Vancouver or….

I think Megan knows she can’t handle drugs. Or, for the sake of the people around her, I hope she understands that.
God I pity the people in the dorm room with her when she first got high.

 
 

…it was staggering to see a “professor” make so many willful mistatements of law in order to support the proposition that the president can crush a child’s testicals if he wishes.

These guys simply do not recognize the rule of law at all. I’m a little surprised that they even bother trying to justify or explain what they’re doing.

 
 

I’m tired of all this gravity sh*t why can’t our aircraft carriers fly Bush should sign something outlawing all that gravity crap when it comes to our military defending the Southland.

 
 

It contends that numerous laws and treaties forbidding torture or cruel treatment should not apply to U.S. interrogations in foreign lands because of the president’s inherent wartime powers. […]
Interrogators who harmed a prisoner would be protected by a “national and international version of the right to self-defense,”

Those laws and treaties are legally binding because they were enacted by the President together with Congress. Are we saying that the Divine Right of the President is so absolute that even he or she cannot limit it? I thought we settled this at Runnymede.

PS, I suspect that my neighbor might try to steal tools from me. Can I firebomb his house? It’s self-defense.

 
 

The fact is, John Yoo and President Bush have a higher law to answer to: God’s law. Check out the Bible and your history. God permits the righteous to use any method necessary to punish evildoers and for His glory. God blesses the USA as his instrument of freedom and goodness in the world. You wimps who want us to send terrorists on spa days aregoing to loose us this war. Typical elietists, who know nothing of reality.

 
 

My favorite part in all this is how the Bushies did not seem to consider what happens when this sort of thing gets out. Which it did.

I really hope Hayden was telling the truth when he said only three people were water-boarded. I really hope the number stays low. But there’s too much secrecy and too many skilled liars. We really are screwed aren’t we? No more hope. Its time for action.

 
 

Sorry ’bout the attitude, Sadlynauts, but nothing concerning John Yoo is ever funny.

Yeah, actually I’m having a hard time finding any snark in this.

and no, I skipped past Gary. Gary,shut the fuck up.

 
 

He also articulated a definition of illegal conduct in interrogations — that it must “shock the conscience” — that the Bush administration advocated for years.

As if that isn’t a loophole large enough to drive a truck through. By his definition, if you have no conscience, it’s impossible for you to commit torture. An argument tailor-made for Bush and Cheney.

 
 

I may be a lilly-livered nancy-boy for saying this, but my conscience was shocked simply by reading Yoo’s opinion.

There’s a spot at the Hague for people like this.

 
 

People like John Yoo make me wish I wasn’t an atheist. That way, I could at least be comforted by the ‘knowledge’ that there’d be a pre-warmed seat in hell waiting for him to come and sit in it.

 
 

John Yoo Fucker.

 
 

zsa, I believe that makes you a national threat, since you could stir up voters to elect new leaders who wouldn’t have the courage to do “what must be done” to defend our liberty.

Consider these electrodes on your genitals to be”self-defense”. No hard feelings. Wartime powers, etc.

 
 

Und dies durchgehalten zu haben, und dabei — abgesehen von menschlichen Ausnahmeschwächen — anständig geblieben zu sein, hat uns hart gemacht und ist ein niemals genanntes und niemals zu nennendes Ruhmesblatt.

 
 

“Does the idea of stripping a guy naked, beating him up and leaving him a freezing room shock your conscience?”

“No.”

“You’re hired!”

“Can I use my own rubber hose? I’ve had it for years.”

“Great, of course! Saves the tax payer money.”

Puke.

 
 

So they need a lawyer to announce they won’t follow the law?

Goes nicely with the rest of their unironic “first we kill all the lawyers” rhetoric.

 
 

My favorite part in all this is how the Bushies did not seem to consider what happens when this sort of thing gets out. Which it did.

 
 

Grasping for some kind of silver lining that might sustain my normally happy state, I think maybe, just maybe Yoo’s standing as a famous talking head and respected professor will take a hit when his uncontested status as a war criminal is general knowledge. But I’m just kidding myself.

 
 

Hell no, Bullsmith. Now they’ll give him his own show on Fox.

 
 

My favorite part in all this is how the Bushies did not seem to consider what happens when this sort of thing gets out. Which it did.

But what has actually happened to the Bushies? Nothing. Yoo still has his teaching job. Bush could give a flying fuck except for to dare you to do something while he stands there smirking. Bush truly is a sadist. He loves this shit.

 
 

I have seen no evidence that Sen. McCain is successfully unifying the Republican Party or drawing conservatives into his fold. To the contrary, he seems intent on driving them away,” said the Focus on the Family founder [James Dobson], in a statement to the Wall Street Journal.

He cited recent McCain remarks on global warming and torture.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Matthew 22:35-40

35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 
 

Oops. ignore the fumble fingered post at 16:17

 
 

IDIFTL

 
 

Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt fuck up the earth, for what has the earth ever done for you? This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it, thou shalt torture thy neighbor before he gets a chance to do bad things to you. On these two commandments hang all that is Christian in politics.

 
 

That definition of torture also allows for the prosecution of ‘bad apples,’ as with the Abu Ghraib affair.

…allowing them to sacrifice the occasional convenient low-level scapegoat as a minor sop to public opinion. Nice.

 
 

I hate Yoo, long time…

 
 

Consider these electrodes on your genitals …

You’re not even going to buy me a drink first?

… really hope Hayden was telling the truth when he said only three people were water-boarded.

Can I get a show of hands from everyone who actually believes we only waterboarded 3 people?

Yeh, that’s what I thought, too.

At some point this is all going to come out … the extraordinary renditions, the black sites hosted in lawless Eastern European gulags, the torture (outsourced and otherwise) … and we’ll look back at John Yoo’s string of corrupt little justifications as fond mementos of a simpler, happier time.

 
 

If someone were to say beat Yoo to death with a baseball bat, and then argue that it was in defense of the Republic and the principles upon which it was founded, would they get off under his theory of justice? Suppose they were a member of the military (thus getting around the monoply of violence excuse)?

 
 

It’s not the drowning that inflames me,
The torture that maims me,
Oh, no!
It’s just the nearness of Yoo…

 
 

Every law’s going to have unintended consequences. Can we make the Hellmouth the Bush administration work for us? Instead of citizen’s arrest, we could have citizen’s torture. Starting with Yoo, of course. It’s self-defense.

And if we’re going to have Biblical law, there are a lot of wing-nut that need to be fed to lions. Since the Bible also believes in tribal murder, it’s okay to get rid of people in your midst that disagree with you.

Oh Garrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy…….I just want to talk to yoooooou…..

 
 

El Cid said,
April 2, 2008 at 15:34

I’m tired of all this gravity sh*t why can’t our aircraft carriers fly Bush should sign something outlawing all that gravity crap when it comes to our military defending the Southland.

I agree. Anyone who does not believe in the law of gravity should now feel free to fly about the room.

 
 

“God blesses the USA as his instrument of freedom and goodness in the world.”

The USA? Shit, and all this time I thought it was the theremin.

 
Incontinentia Buttocks
 

A couple years ago I remember reading something about Yoo arguing for a very limited view of executive power during the Clinton years.

The guy isn’t even an honest authoritarian. He’s just a completely amoral, Republican hack.

This really is the banality of evil.

 
 

The thing that continues to make my head explode is the “it’s okay if we do it” defense. Yoo says that it’s okay if we torture because we’re doing it to our enemies and that’s protecting ourselves, it’s “self defense”.

I’m guessing doesn’t occur to the witless wonders in this administration that the “bad guys” might use this same logic on our military. “We saw them shooting at us, and we want to know where the next checkpoint will be, so we’re running a couple hundred volts through this guy, you know, in self defense.”

It’s always the assholes without military service that get careless with the Geneva Convention (anybody remember that thing?) because it’s not there asses on the line…

 
 

‘I was only giving orders…’

 
 

We’re God’s instruments of freedom goodness and puppies like David was–“God wants me to kill all his enemies.” I didn’t realize a god was so powerless he had enemies he needed to wage human war against. What happened to smiting from above?

We’re never going to get out of these wars. They are like bedtime stories to us, full of exceptionalism and self-love. Our civilization is based on a Christ-less Christianity. Our myths are all of our own infallibility. When Christians say secularists have kicked Jesus out of our lives, they are projecting and scapegoating as always.

 
 

I’m really getting sick and tired of being ashamed of my own damn country.

 
 

Yoo always hurt
The one Yoo love,
The one Yoo shouldn’t hurt at all…

 
 

the president’s ultimate authority as commander in chief

Well Geez John! Now every president is gonna want their own war…

Nice going, asshole!

 
Governor William J. Le Petomane
 

Say what you want about his legal theories, he really makes some awesome movies. Face/Off rocked.

 
 

I am glad that my hobby of crushing children’s testicles has Yoo as a proponent. If I have any problems I’m sure he’ll rush to my defense.

 
 

Yoo was in front of me in line at the Harvard sq. Pete’s not too long ago.

He neither looked nor smelled half as evil as he really should.

 
 

Surprise surprise, Yoo got all huffy when Bill Clinton expanded executive power: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/24/yoo/

What a hack.

 
 

Yoo was in front of me in line at the Harvard sq. Pete’s not too long ago.

Did he order the crushed baby nuts platter?

 
 

Do you think Yoo dreams of someday leading a Castrati Choir?

 
 

“The documents are among the Justice Department legal memoranda that undergirded some of the highly coercive interrogation techniques employed by the Bush administration, including extreme temperatures, head-slapping and a type of simulated drowning called waterboarding.”

I slap my head every time I remember or realize something. Is it too late for me to earn Big Warbucks in the Bush administration questioning myself?

 
 

“Did he order the crushed baby nuts platter?”

No just a regular non-fat, non-whip “blood of the innocents” latte, garnished with the ground bones of tortured men.

 
 

Tough day to be a journalist. You’ll have to choose whether to cover:
Yoo provides a dubious legal justification for the executive branch’s right to torture (in opposition to his views when a democrat held the office) or Obama can’t bowl and Hillary made a joke about it.

Whichever will they choose?

 
 

You don’t understand. 9/11 changed everything. We have to torture them over there so we won’t have to torture them over here. Of course, if we have to torture them over here, that’s OK too because 9/11!

Of course, in their addled minds they’re still anticipating the thousand year Reich hundred years of Republican dominance so the look on their faces when the Democrats sweep into power and they realize what they have handed them will be priceless.

Yeah. In a just world, Yoo would be one of the first into the dock at the ICC. Followed by just about everybody who worked in the OVP, Gonzales and of course the chimp-in-chief.

 
 

Another post like that and you can forget about funny.

 
 

I’m guessing doesn’t occur to the witless wonders in this administration that the “bad guys” might use this same logic on our military. “We saw them shooting at us, and we want to know where the next checkpoint will be, so we’re running a couple hundred volts through this guy, you know, in self defense.”

If furriners were to torture our soldiers it would of course shock the conscience and be proof that we must send more soldiers to subdue the blood-thirsty baby killing puppy stompers.

Of course, it helps that they don’t actually give a flaming fuck about the soldiers as actual people rather than characters in the pResident’s video game so they never lost a wink of sleep over what might happen as a result of their Torture, OK! policy.

Plus, they can always blame the lieberul media for leaking information about their super top secret plan to keep us safe.

 
 

I’m a student at UCB. Anyone know the best way to go about getting a petition to have this asshat fired? I’m pretty sure I could get a large portion of the student body behind me.

 
 

I’m a student at UCB. Anyone know the best way to go about getting a petition to have this asshat fired? I’m pretty sure I could get a large portion of the student body behind me.

Pitchforks and torches would be a nice touch.

 
 

Mr Yoo? Your application for Mr. Speer’s cell at Spandau has been accepted, for an indefinite stay.

We’ll be scheduling your intake interview at the Hague, shortly. The committee was very impressed with the implicit subtext of your writings: ‘I am the whole of the Law.” and, especially ‘Arbeit Mach Frei’.

Please be prepared to travel light. You will not expect our associated to break your door down at 3 am, stun you with flash bang grenades, slap a black sack over your head, strip you naked, hog tie you with zip ties, sedate you, and strap you down in the unheated hold of a cargo plane.

Please consider this to be the thanks of a grateful nation.

 
 


Punishable offenses committed by enemy civilians do not, until further notice, come any longer under the jurisdiction of the courts-martial….

Persons suspected of criminal action will be brought at once before an officer. This officer will decide whether they are to be shot.

With regard to offenses committed against enemy civilians by members of the Army, prosecution is not obligatory even where the deed is at the same time a military crime or offense.

—Directive by Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, May 1941

 
 

President Clinton exercised the powers of the imperial presidency to the utmost in the area in which those powers are already at their height — in our dealings with foreign nations. Unfortunately, the record of the administration has not been a happy one, in light of its costs to the Constitution and the American legal system. On a series of different international relations matters, such as war, international institutions, and treaties, President Clinton has accelerated the disturbing trends in foreign policy that undermine notions of democratic accountability and respect for the rule of law.

Professor John Yoo, discussing President Bill Clinton. Source: John C. Yoo, The Imperial President Abroad, in Roger Pilon, ed., The Rule of Law in the Wake of Clinton 159 (2000).

 
Karate Bearfighter
 

My wife is a public defender; she has lots of high school dropout clients who try to claim self defense under Yoo’s theory.

“He came to my house to fight with me. I had to beat him to death with a bat; it was self-defense.”

“I was robbing him and he said he was going to get his gun and come back and shoot me; I had to kill him in self-defense.”

Who knew she could cite scholarly memos by a high profile Berkeley law professor in their defense?

 
 

Somebody upthread said something about John Yoo getting his own show on Fox. I don’t know how to do it but maybe it would be a good idea to register the domain name “YoosGuys.comnetorgfuckwad” so that Rudeprick Moldycock will have to buy it from a lefty.

John Yoo is, to the rightards, oneathem good chinee like Michelle Melikesomelongdong (so why do I hang out with reptilicans?) Malkin. I know, I know; she’s a filipina but, hey, them sortabrowns are all the same.

 
Karate Bearfighter
 

Good luck Nutella: fucker’s got tenure.

The students at U of Mn law school tried to get the administration to reconsider a decision to rehire Yoo’s pal Delahunty as a fill-in lecturer for one semester; no dice.

 
 

Fuck Yoo and the horse Yoo rode in on.

 
 

“I’m a student at UCB. Anyone know the best way to go about getting a petition to have this asshat fired? I’m pretty sure I could get a large portion of the student body behind me.

Pitchforks and torches would be a nice touch.”

They won’t let those on campus. We’ll have to take those to his house. I have a clear conscience about it, so I’m sure the cops won’t mind.

 
 

I wouldn’t imagine that Yoo has anywhere near the kind of security that Bush and Cheney have. Someone one really needs to act on that fact.

 
 

Unfortunately, he probably won’t be able to be fired easily, if at all.

You’re going to have to go with high-profile, highly embarrassing public resistance.

Impromptu waterboarding demonstrations outside his classroom, with selected media notice.

Gonzo interviews with media covering events Yoo is attending. Works best if you come off as on his side, only Billionaires for Bush type outrageous.

Maybe sneak a torture victim into the campus and have him ask Yoo directly.

Basically, make it so hot for the campus that they have no choice but to sideline this nudnik. Don’t try and shame Yoo, he’s not capable of feeling it.

 
 

Yoo is a Professor of Law at Berkeley. I can’t believe students would actually take classes from him. They should be loudly protesting his being there or at least taking dump in front of his office door.

 
 

Dear Lord, if I ever saw Yoo walking down the street, it would take all of my effort not to kick him in the nuts.

 
 

You’re going to have to go with high-profile, highly embarrassing public resistance.

Attempted waterboarding via squirtgun. It’s possible to prosecute a squirtgunner but I would have to imagine very embarrassing in context.

 
 

Tough day to be a journalist. You’ll have to choose whether to cover:
Yoo provides a dubious legal justification for the executive branch’s right to torture (in opposition to his views when a democrat held the office) or Obama can’t bowl and Hillary made a joke about it.

Whichever will they choose?

I don’t want to be tiresomely cynical, but this isn’t exactly breaking news. José Padilla was arrested 6 years ago. My how time flies.

We’ve known for more than half a decade that the President exercises the authority to strip a man of all rights, whether granted by international treaty or by status as a US citizen. That’s what Illegal enemy Combatant means; it means “Guy we can do whatever the fuck we want to”.

Having no rights means you have no rights; this includes the right not to be tortured.

As monstrous as this is (And, good lord, this is as monstrous as it gets), it’s nothing we didn’t know already. It’s nothing we didn’t know at the time he wrote the memo.

 
 

President Clinton exercised the powers of the imperial presidency to the utmost in the area in which those powers are already at their height — in our dealings with foreign nations. Unfortunately, the record of the administration has not been a happy one, in light of its costs to the Constitution and the American legal system. On a series of different international relations matters, such as war, international institutions, and treaties, President Clinton has accelerated the disturbing trends in foreign policy that undermine notions of democratic accountability and respect for the rule of law.

Not to get all serious, but he was right – Clinton did help to accelerate the idea of the Imperial Presidency. Of course, the fact that these asshats did the exact same thing, and to a degree that put Clinton to shame, once they got a little taste of power is the story but really, this is an ongoing (and disturbing) historical trend.

 
 

We need a comely lass to lure Yoo into a compromising position, preferably one with whips, fake fur restraints, and embarrasssing photos.

Blackmail. It’s the American way.

 
 

Then there’s this delightful tit-bit from Think Progress:

The former Senator [Chafee] describes a December 2000 meeting of Republican moderates with Vice President-elect Cheney. Chafee listened as Cheney swore off the moderate course he and Bush had just finished championing in their campaign.

Hearing Cheney say “the campaign was over and that our actions in office would not be dictated by what had to be said in the campaign,” Chafee writes, was “the most demoralizing moment of my seven-year tenure in the Senate.”

 
 

NutellaonToast, a “Fuck Yoo” movement at UCB might catch on.

 
 

The fact is that it was just a few little atrocities here and there and you liberals are destroying America by thinking it’s a big deal.

 
 

Jingles – That would be okay as long as you felt Yoo threatened your safety…

 
 

As monstrous as this is (And, good lord, this is as monstrous as it gets), it’s nothing we didn’t know already. It’s nothing we didn’t know at the time he wrote the memo.

“Nothing we didn’t know” only includes those paying attention. I’m quite certain that the vast majority of America does not know anything about this and in fact, more probably know Obama’s bowling score than this national disgrace. And that fact can be laid solidly at the feet of a media obsessed with “regular guyness” and blue dresses. The memo is monstrous. The fact that it barely makes the evening news is criminal.

I will say to their credit that the Corner is doing a bang up job of highlighting this issue…chirp some woman says Firefly is sexist chirp chirp…oh nevermind.

 
 

NoT, if he has tenure you might not be able to get rid of him but you can make it very difficult for UCB to keep him.

And by difficult I mean expensive.

I imagine lots of potential donors might balk at the thought of giving to a school with something like that on the faculty.

UCB might not be able to push him but they could make him jump.

KnowhatImean?

 
 

Arky’s right. The only way to really pressure someone is to follow the money. Go to the biggest donors of the university and get them on public record regarding their stance on torture. Make it impossible financially to keep him. Constantly publicize Yoo’s statements and activities. Repetition works.

 
 

We need a comely lass to lure Yoo into a compromising position, preferably one with whips, fake fur restraints, and embarrasssing photos.

No Susan, we can’t let you do it!!

We’ll send in Cassy Fiano instead. Yoo is her idea of the ideal man.

Now, which of you strong stomached patriots will operate the camera?

 
 

This whole debate about the use of torture against terrorists is really a red herring.

We are at war with vile uncivilized savages who profess loyalty to no nation, and therefore are not considered legal combatants and are not protected under the Geneva Conventio.

So the whole debate about whether the military or CIA should use torture is really irrelevant. They are free to use any means necessary to protect the lives of Americans including the use of torture.

In fact, I found what our Soldiers did to the terrorists at Abu Garib to be quite humorous to say the least.

 
 

SHAME ON YOO!

Thanks, I had to get that out.

 
 

Yeah? Well I call dibs on Fuck Yoo.

I think UCB should be renamed Torture U for the duration but I’m a troublemaker that way.

 
 

I wouldn’t touch Yoo with a Cattle Prod – a) the prod might break and they aren’t cheap – and b) the little prick might like it

 
 

I thinke Fire You, with a logo that has the “F” ten times the size of the “ire” would be muchmore effecgtive. If you get too in your face it turns people off.

“Eff You” is the route I’ll go, if I go ahead with this.

Anyone have experience with this kind of thing? I do not but seriously want to do it.

 
 

The vile uncivilized savages.

More of the same. (WARNING-TERRIBLE)

If there were a hell, you would burn in it.

But our trolls are just fake trolls, or masochistic trolls, or silly little bagginses. They are nothing compared to the real bastards, the ones giving the orders. Our trolls are just shadows of evil, not the real thing. No matter what they envision in their mastabatory fantasies. No matter what they say, or how hard they try to grab some power by association, as if Talking Points were spells and they were little Harry Potters, really really important deep down inside, if anyone knew THE TRUTH!!

 
 

I have a philosophical question: Yes, Mr. Yoo promotes things in George W. that he hailed as civilisational destroying character flaws in clinton, but is this really hypocrisy?

His stated ideology for the government is “We can do whatever we want because we’re us, and not you.”

Is hypocrisy even possible in this context?

“Nothing we didn’t know” only includes those paying attention. I’m quite certain that the vast majority of America does not know anything about this and in fact, more probably know Obama’s bowling score than this national disgrace. And that fact can be laid solidly at the feet of a media obsessed with “regular guyness” and blue dresses. The memo is monstrous. The fact that it barely makes the evening news is criminal.

Yeah… it’s just that this has been explicit government policy for so long… Even a year ago I remember mentioning Mr. Padilla and having to explain who he was. He’s the American citizen who had not just his rights as a citizen, but his rights as a human being revoked by the President. He (And thus all of us) literally has fewer rights than my cat.

I haven’t done much to bring down this dictatorship, but it’s just so FRUSTRATING that the fact that the President has the “legal” authority to revoke any and all of your rights or my rights, and it doesn’t even register in the public consciousness.

The only thing holding the President in check is his intuitive sense of how far is too far. He knows he can’t arrest “Joe Smith” as an illegal combatant, so he’s starting with the guys who have foreign sounding names and are thus already non-American. And just one or two to start; it’s too early for whole camps full of citizens. He won’t declare himself dictator for life.

But it’s not the law and it’s not the Congress and it’s not his conscience that prevents him from doing this; it’s the fact that there’s still a chance the citizenry and military brass could revolt if pushed too far. That’s it; that’s all that protects us.

 
 

Susan, what are you trying to do make me out to be a monster.

Of course I don’t like seeing innocent children being killed which is why I oppose abortion.

However the terrorists our troops are killing are not innocent children rather the blood thirsty savages of the same ilk that hijacked our airliners and murdered 3000 innocent Americans for no reason.

The people are troops are fighting are not the innocent children you pictured.

 
 

Fuck you, liar.

Those kids didn’t kill themselves.

 
 

Woops, I made an opening so that McShit can say the kids were killed by our enemies in Iraq, those religious maniacs who were in league with Saddam, who killed religious maniacs.

Sorry. It’s still our fault. And you proudly, loudly support this death and destruction. Do it again, McShit. Support this hell on earth, this Four Horsemen of the American Way.

 
 

They were probably murdered by the terrorists. You and I both know they kill their own in the name of their evil god.

 
 

Are you kidding? Those kids are totally terrorists. Look how brown they are!

 
 

“Of course I don’t like seeing innocent children being killed which is why I oppose abortion.”

When all else fails – bring out the fetus meat!

 
 

Toast- have a local copy shop print say 500 stick-on name badges that say FUCK YOO.

Leave stacks of the stickers around campus.

Let nature take its course.

 
 

As if that was me.

 
 

Anyone have experience with this kind of thing? I do not but seriously want to do it.

I haven’t done this since before the internons and this is all off the top of my head but:
Finding a list of UCB’s major donors should be easy. From there you can create a letter – citing choice quotes from the Memo – that you’ll send to each donor. Susan had a great suggestion, which I’d apply to key members of the faculty as well. You kids today have all them fancy video recorders and stuff, use ’em. Dean Smith, what do you think of torture?

Is the school or any section of the school planning to put up a new building or make renovations? They’ll be trying to collect funds. Go after the people or corporations jostling for naming rights. “What do you think of torture? Did you know UCB Professor John Yoo said X. How do you feel about giving to a school that has John Yoo on the faculty?”

I’d also suggest you contact Amnesty International ideas/assistance.

One final word of advice: Dress neatly and be extra nice. If anyone in your group starts talking about burning shit, kick him out. More people will listen and when Bill DoReilly comes roaring out to film the DFHs burning things in the quad and he sees a bunch of people quietly picketing his head will explode and you’ll be heroes.

 
 

See? *So* predictable. So sure. So wrong.

And you can keep on doing this, forever if you want. Cheer death! Jesus loves war! Bush is right! Abortion is Murder!

See how easy it is? How free of repercussion–on you.

Your relatives are alive, free to abort their little heartland babies, which statistics prove they do with impunity.

You home is safe, as long as it’s not a Democratic city.

You can say and do whatever you want. No one can stop you. Nobody cares enough to try. God hates you! You should be murdered in your bed! You’re treasonous scum!

Ooooh, I am so brave. I am Conservative!!

 
 

You know you’re arguing with booger/rugged/chris st. fake gary saul, don’t you, Susan?

 
 

Here’s the thing:

Berkeley is a campus of pampered pretenders who wouldn’t know activism or what to do with it, even if they had it. Yoo’s been on campus for years and no one has said or done shit about it. Most of this isn’t new news. It’s just a deeper look at it. If there was any conscience left in the world, John Yoo would be legally hounded every day of his sadistic, pathetic, miserable existence. And yet he teaches — IN PUBLIC. Disgusting. Cal students are gutless.

The same bravery is found here:

Chafee writes, was “the most demoralizing moment of my seven-year tenure in the Senate.”

And yet the cocksucker dicked around for 4 more years without doing much of anything about it. Sackless.

 
 

Yeah, those parts I understand. I’m more interested in the best way to get to people. How to start a petition. How do I raise money. What do I need to do to ensure legality, etc. Logistics.

I was planning on making this a straight laced affair. The DFH are always mad, but I want to start getting those of us who shave and shower riled up as we rightly should be. That’s why I want to avoid saying “Fuck Yoo”

 
 

Arky, what you are suggesting is fascism and completely against freedom of speech.

Regardless of whether you agree with Professor Yoo or not, doesn’t he have a right to freedom of speech?

The left always accuses the right of being fascist, however I never once heard of anyone on the right trying to silence the free speech of anyone on the left.

So what if the Universities sponsors and faculty support torture, thats their right, this is America a free country. People can believe whatever they want.

Who gave you authority over what we can and cannot believe?

 
 

Matt, just how low is your IQ? Does the test ever return a negative number?

 
 

*You* aren’t saying it. You had nothing to do with those badges left lying around in the Student Union and coffe shops. You don’t have the faintest idea who did it. You keep your plausable deniablilty (nothing can be traced) and keep the high road.

What good does a petition do? That’s not sarcastic, I just don’t know. (Spocko did something like this successfully, btw.)

 
 

How to start a petition. How do I raise money. What do I need to do to ensure legality, etc.

Get a piece of paper. Have people sign their real names and supply contact information.

I really recommend theatre instead. Waterboarding demos outside the law buildings with an “Are You Man Enough” sign that’d attract frat boys.

 
 

Liberal Fascism at its finest I see. Jonah was right.

 
 

Jesus Christ. Every time Matt McHandjob posts, the needle on my Fail Detector sticks on the red.

[Thump, thump!]

 
 

Gnutella- How about pictures of torture with the caption “Yoo says Yes!”

You shouldn’t consider this an either/or opportunity. Fuck YOO stickers serve to reinforce your white-shoe appeals to the gentry who run things. ‘Cause what Board member/Department Head/Etc. wants to bring the current or future intelligencia onto campus when everywhere you look there it is.

And plus, do this on line.

 
 

Toast,

shave&shower + riled up = DFH

You might have to accept this math before you get started. You’re asking people to give up complacency. That’s kind of the entry point into DFH.

Complacency = Matt McMuttonhead.

 
 

Who says I’m only going to do one thing, Bubba?

Susan, a petition may do no good, but I’m not limiting myself to it. Just seems a good way to get started.

Can you give me more details on this Spocko thing?

 
 

How to start a petition. How do I raise money. What do I need to do to ensure legality, etc. Logistics.

What do you need money for? Start on campus. Have sign up sheet. Ask people to sign it in support of holding Yoo and Cal responsible for US torture. Call the newspaper at Cal. Call the Bay area tv stations. Call Barbara Lee. Get your friends involved.

Go in front of Boalt Hall and ask law professors — a particularly useless breed anyway — if it bothers them. And, in the unlikely event it does, ask them what the fuck they plan to do about it? Bring it up to the Grad Student Union. Bring it up to the ABA.

Call that useless asshole Ward Connerly (if he’s still a Trustee) and get him to speak in favor of Yoo — and torture. Document everything.

There are literally endless ways to get the ball rolling. It’s not that hard.

 
 

Yeah, those parts I understand. I’m more interested in the best way to get to people. How to start a petition. How do I raise money. What do I need to do to ensure legality, etc. Logistics.

Does UCB have an Amnesty International chapter? My teeny tiny college did so I’d be surprised if they didn’t. They’d have all you need to know and that would be better than takign advice from strangers on the ‘nons. (Even me.)

You might also contact this prof:

This event is open to the public and targets anybody who will be passing by on the Sproul Plaza on that last day of classes. A Tentative Program includes: an Opening Statement by Rita Maran, UCB Professor of Human Rights and UNA-USA East Bay Chapter President at 11:45 a.m.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/events/western/12102004ucberkeley.html

Good luck and keep us posted.

 
 

Who says I’m only going to do one thing, Bubba?

A pat on the back then.

I do think squirtguns aimed at Yoo are a good absurd response and public shaming effort, but that can get you kicked out of school.

 
 

Crap. S,N! Ateded my post.

Nutella, UCB should have an Amnesty International chapter (my tiny college did) and they may already be working on this. Start with them because they’ll be able to help you with anything from circulating a petition to full on protests. Working with someone in person is always better than free advice from strangers on the nons. Even when the stranger is me.

You might also contact this professor:

This event is open to the public and targets anybody who will be passing by on the Sproul Plaza on that last day of classes. A Tentative Program includes: an Opening Statement by Rita Maran, UCB Professor of Human Rights and UNA-USA East Bay Chapter President at 11:45 a.m.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 
 

Dude, the Great Gazoogle is your friend.

Petition

Spocko

 
 

Yeah, I’m going to have to be careful with what I do. I’m sure I can find some citizens who needn’t fear repercussions from the school to lend a hand. Not that I’d advocate anything like that, which I find highly reprehensible. You know, can’t control my underlings, though. Isolated incidents and all that.

 
 

Nutellon Toast, here is part of the story.

 
 

Or, for that matter, a little direct action is always, well, satisfying.

Why not ask dear john yourself?

From TPM comments:

Yoo’s faculty info from UC Berkeley, in case you’d like to drop him a line. I did.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/yooj/

According to the last entry on the page, here’s what Prof. Yoo has been teaching over at Boalt Hall in Berkeley-

International Civil Litigation
International Law
Constitutional Law
Foreign Relations Law
Civil Procedure
International Trade
Separation of Powers Law

Yep. He’t teaching Constitutional Law and Separation of Powers Law.

Yikes…

mikey

 
 

Yep. He’t teaching Constitutional Law and Separation of Powers Law.

Shortest classes Evah!

 
 

I’m currently not working on an essay about John Yoo’s policies in the context of Chinese militarism.

But if I was, it’d be called “Yoo and Hu’s Army”.

 
 

Let’s all point and laugh at UCB children.

/Mr. Garrett.

NoT: According to AI’s website UCB does have a chapter.

 
 

Jay, what you propose is even more fascist than Arky. If you guys go through with this I am going to first notify Berkely University as to your intentions and will contact the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) who will provide legal counsel for Professor Yoo free of charge. Now thats no bluff, this is something I will do, I assure you that two can play at this game.

 
 

Yeah, I’m going to have to be careful with what I do.

This is what Berkeley has been reduced to.

You don’t have to punch the guy or do anything illegal. You don’t have to be that careful. You have to be vocal — if you want to go on a charm offensive, well, that’s all good, but that’s a long slog.

Yoo disgraces your campus every day he’s been on the faculty.

 
 

Do it.

I’ll especially enjoy watching you try to contact the ACLJ.

 
Karate Bearfighter
 

#

Matt McMahon said,

April 2, 2008 at 19:39

Jay, what you propose is even more fascist than Arky. If you guys go through with this I am going to first notify Berkely University as to your intentions and will contact the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) who will provide legal counsel for Professor Yoo free of charge. Now thats no bluff, this is something I will do, I assure you that two can play at this game.

Legal counsel for what, asshat?

 
 

You know you’re arguing with booger/rugged/chris st. fake gary saul, don’t you, Susan?

Sure. But I don’t think of it as arguing, I think of it as “heaping abuse on.”

 
 

American Center for Law and Justice. Hmm.

Aren’t they those lawyers who practice trial law?

Trial lawyers?

Matt, one of the main pieces of advice you’ll get from any laywer would apply here:

Shut your piehole.

 
 

Legal counsel for him because you liberal fascsits are trying to get him fired.

 
 

Isn’t he….a lawyer?

 
 

Ooooh….You’re not bluffing! Wait, what’s the bluff in “I’m going to contact Berkeley and some phony baloney rightwing legal group”?

Contact them. What the fuck are you going to tell them? Liberals are mad that Yoo is employed by them and we consider him a war criminal? Trust me, they already know that.

The fake fake troll thing is really annoying, otherwise, I’d point out the “free speech” aspect of airing OUR beliefs and how The Right is trying to preempt our exercise of that AND our right to assembly.

Thus implodes the Constitution of Douchey McFake.

 
 

How can a private citizen be considered a war criminal? Because he worked for Bush?

Bush and Cheney aren’t war criminals either. You do realize we were attacked on 9/11? Since when is it a war crime for a nation to conduct a war of self defense on an enemy that murdered 3000 of its own citizens?

Why am I even wasting my time, I know you liberals want to see America lose the war. Why don’t you all just move to your socialist island paradise of Cuba if you hate America so much?

 
 

How can a private citizen be considered a war criminal? Because he worked for Bush?

Yes. And advocated war crimes! This makes him, by definition, a war criminal. Playing stupid is really, really annoying. But since this is a teaching moment, and you’re still on topic, you’re losing Fake Troll Points.

Trust me Douchey, Bush and Cheney won’t go traveling much after their term ends.

 
 

Sez “matt” from his chair of the public library (now with shorter hours) in Buttfuck, Alabama. Go Army, Matt, up or reup. Defend America with your own precious lily-white skin. No excuses, now. The very fate of Western Civilization is at stake.

 
 

Man, this is really going to eat into my studying time. Totally worth it, though.

Matt, STFU. Seriously, you’re retarded.

 
 

I do think squirtguns aimed at Yoo are a good absurd response and public shaming effort, but that can get you kicked out of school.

So… squirting somebody with water is enough to get you kicked out of school, but being directly responsible for the torture of numerous people is just fine?

(Also apparently fine: Teaching a class on the seperation of powers when your views on the subject are demonstrably insane.)

 
 

Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time Why am I even wasting my time?

 
 

Since when is it a war crime for a nation to conduct a war of self defense on an enemy that murdered 3000 of its own citizens?

Pop quiz, Matt: How many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Iraq?

 
 

I forgot to ask: Matt, can’t you at least be funny or interesting in your trolling? You know, at least as a special occasion in light of the somber subject matter?

 
 

Because he committed war crimes? There were private citizens convicted at Nuremberg, you know. Interestingly, none of those actual fascists were convicted for heading up petitions.

 
 

War crimes can only be commited if the enemy ARE LEGAL COMBATANTS! The enemy we are fighting are terrorists, criminals and barbarians. They pledge allegience to no flag, were no uniforms and are not under the direct control of any nation state. Therefore the geneva convention and the traditional rules of war DO NOT APPLY! AND THEREFORE NO WAR CRIMES CAN BE COMMITED BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION WHEN FIGHTING TERRORISTS!

 
 

Shorter Matt McMahon: Protesting someone who advocates and justifies war crimes, is Fascism.

 
 

Seriously, are the denizens of Trollsyvannia having a contest to select the lamest troll on the ‘nons?

If so, I cast my vote for McHandjob.

I also predict that his next move will be to claim we’re torturing him with our jeering because it hurts his feeling worse than a testicle crushing.

 
 

Hey, if “someone” killed Matt/Gary it would be okay, because he’s not a legal combatant!

And the funny part? Thanks to Yoo, even Gary can be labeled a terrorist!

 
 

The Iraqi government under Saddam Hussien was providing training, intelligence and logistics support to al-queda terrorists. And therefore was a legitimate target. I agree however that if torture was used against actual Iraqi soldiers fighting under the Iraqi flag wearing actual uniforms then yes the geneva conventions would apply. However no actual Iraqi military personeel of Hussien’s were ever tortured. Only terrorists and assorted savages were tortured and therefore the geneva convention does not apply.

 
Chlamydia Champaigne
 

The Iraqi government under Saddam Hussien was providing training, intelligence and logistics support to al-queda terrorists.

Care to provide any evidence of that, mop boy?

 
 

Al-Queda were the God people. They like God very very much.

Saddam the NO GOD!! people. He no like the God people. They big competition for power.

Can you say, “competition”?

 
 

wow, it’s like a greatest hits of republican taliking points

 
 

War crimes can only be commited if the enemy ARE LEGAL COMBATANTS!

Nope. Not even remotely on Troll Talking Points (hint: It’s The Geneva Conventions only cover “Legal Combatants” according to Troll Talking Points, although THAT’S a lie too), but wrong anyway. Shockingly wrong. Horrifically ignorantly wrong. Wrong on a cosmically clueless level. Wrong, obtuse, illiterate, foolish, dull, witless and laughably wrong. But since you are trying to argue the point here, worth responding to.

Since you’re such a crackerjack at defining “Fascism” Douchey McFake, you might remember that a whole lot o’ Nazis were tried for war crimes at the Nuremburg trials and convicted of “crimes against humanity”.

 
Chlamydia Champaigne
 

AND THEREFORE NO WAR CRIMES CAN BE COMMITED BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION WHEN FIGHTING TERRORISTS

Hey moron, what uniform did European Jews wear during WWII? What army did they fight for? I guess the Holocaust was not a war crime in your idiotic definition.

Here’s another idea. Matt, you’re a prick, who is not going to convince anyone here of anything except how fucking stupid you are. So why are you wasting your time here? Move along to some place where you are appreciated, ass rag.

 
Karate Bearfighter
 

Matt McMahon said,

April 2, 2008 at 20:02

War crimes can only be commited if the enemy ARE LEGAL COMBATANTS!

Prof. Yoo?

 
 

Yoo, as a public servant, advocated and laid the extra-legal groundwork for torture by posing the President as Supreme Being. The resulting actions of the state led to crimes against humanity, including people who were wholly unconnected to the putative war the U.S. is fighting and innocent of any and all charges. Yet they were tortured. Or bombed. Or maimed.

War Crimes.

 
 

I don’t want to kill McHandjob, I just want to crush his testicles.

Fortunately, I can’t get my hands on a set of surgeon’s clamps.

 
 

The Jews were innocent and never attacked anyone.

Al Queda murdered 3000 innocent Americans for no reason.

 
 

And America tortures and kills other, non-Al Queda people for no reason.

We’re as bad as them. You and Yoo are war criminals.

 
 

And you know you’ve got yerself a genyoowine Al-Q operaticive by the way he is browner than Don Surber and has a non-Muricuhn name. Like Jose Padilla.

QED.

 
 

Toast, try talking to these folks

Progressive Portal.org.

They’re in Berkeley. Maybe they can hook you up.

 
 

Jauy you make alot of accusations about Americans torturing non-al-queda people for no reason. Prove it. You can’t because you’ve got nothng other than the usual leftwing America hating talking points.

 
 

okay

prove that all the people in Gunatamo Bay are guilty, then

 
 
 

I’ve seen these guys in action. Worth a look for the theatrical aspect of things: http://www.sfmt.org/index.php

 
 

Don’t argue with the troll. Don’t feed the energy monster.

 
 

Some other suggestions:

— Go to the other department heads. Ideally, get students in that department to express concerns that having Yoo on campus will devalue their degree. In particular, target those departments whose fields are typically considered “anti torture” (Medicine, Philosophy, History, Theology–that kind of thing).

— Contact alumni of the UCB law school and ask them if they are aware of Yoo’s presence and views. (The ABA or the state licensing board should have a list of schools where its members got their JD; the alumni office usually publishes lists of prominent alumni, you might be able to get a copy of the alumni directory, etc.).

— Send letters to the law departments at the other UC universities.

Personally, I’d concentrate on the “do the right thing” angle: if you take the kind “Fuck Yoo” approach, it will be easy to spin that into “you only hate him because he’s conservative–you’re a liberal fascist” BS.

Jesus’s General has some good anti-torture slogans on bumper stickers already. Maybe a “What Would Yoo Do?” campaign, with scenarios taken directly from the case files, or photos of “approved” methods with the caption “Yoo would: would you?”

 
 

From Time Magazine 6/23/2006, via “Oath Betrayed” by Dr. Stephen Miles:

Of the 136 documented deaths of prisoners in detention, Miles found, medical death certificates were often not issued until months or even years after the actual deaths. One prisoner’s corpse at Camp Cropper was kept for two weeks before his family or criminal investigators were notified. The body was then left at a local hospital with a certificate attributing death to “sudden brainstem compression.” The hospital’s own autopsy found that the man had died of a massive blow to the head. Another certificate claimed a 63-year-old prisoner had died of “cardiovascular disease and a buildup of fluid around his heart.” According to Miles, no mention was made that the old man had been stripped naked, doused in cold water and kept outside in 40? cold for three days before cardiac arrest.

Other doctors just looked the other way, their military duty overruling the Hippocratic Oath. One at Abu Ghraib intervened to ask guards to stop beating one prisoner’s wounded leg and quit hanging him from an injured shoulder. He saw it happen three times. He never reported it. In Mosul, according to Miles, one medic witnessed guards beating a prisoner and burning him by dragging him over hot stones. The prisoner was taken to the hospital, treated and then returned by doctors to his torturers. An investigation into the incident was closed because the medic didn’t sign the medical record and so he couldn’t be identified. ”

You and Yoo: It’s Okey Dokey!

I’m sure you’ll need more — but that’s OK, because there’s literally endless examples. The US tortures these days. It’s not a secret. Anymore.

 
Chlamydia Champaigne
 

Prove it. You can’t because you’ve got nothng other than the usual leftwing America hating talking points.

Earlier you stated Saddam was aiding Al Queda. Can you prove that, or do you have nothing other than the usual brown-people-hating rightwing talking points?

Now, Matt? You won’t convince anyone here of anything at all, except how mentally retarded you are. So, I ask again, why are you wasting your time posting comments on this blog?

 
 

#

g said,

April 2, 2008 at 20:34

Don’t argue with the troll. Don’t feed the energy monster.

Disagree. He’s talking about Yoo, war Crimes and torture. This is what we’re talking about. Citing our evidence and evincing our anger isn’t dragging down the thread.

 
 

From Greenwald:

(1) The fact that John Yoo is a Professor of Law at Berkeley and is treated as a respectable, serious expert by our media institutions, reflects the complete destruction over the last eight years of whatever moral authority the United States possessed.

more here

 
 

NoT, a second vote for flyers with the slogan “Yoo would; would you?” You also might look into forming an official student group (but read through the university’s rules for political advocacy). In Clear Conscience is already a fine name.

 
Incontinentia Buttocks
 

As an academic, I’m very loathe to back rescinding anyone’s tenure for reasons other than the grossest professional malfeasance. In my opinion, a tenured faculty member should absolutely be allowed to advocate views that others feel encourage war crimes or violate fundamental legal and moral commitments.

But Yoo’s case is interesting precisely because he not only advocated war crimes and violating fundamental legal and moral commitments, he committed war crimes and aided and abetted the actual violation of fundamental legal and moral commitments. Especially as he is a Professor of Law, I think a case could be made that this might be grounds for revoking his tenure. Wonder what the AAUP would say?

 
 

Google “Dilawar” and “pulpified,” Matty. Even the most cursory Google will show that many prisoners were picked up driving, or chatting on a cellphone, etc- in other words, doing nothing illegal or even suspicious. It will also show that hundreds have been released on recognition that they were innocent of anything, many of them with tales of torture and abuse. To assert that only the guilty were tortured flies in the face of reason and massive evidence.

That said, Matty is a waste of chemicals, and not funny to boot. To the Greasemonkey killfile with him.

 
 

War crimes can only be commited if the enemy ARE LEGAL COMBATANTS!

umm, no. Thanks for Playing!!

I love how MM admits that Yoo sucks at law when he says that Yoo needs legal counsel to protect himself.

 
 

Oh, and you might also get in touch with the folks at Firedoglake. I don’t hang out there anymore, but the proprietors and commenters are very much into organizing and grassroots efforts, and Yoo is a high-profile target for many lefties. Even if Jane and Christy and crew can’t provide concrete help, they may be able to provide organizational help and suggestions.

 
 

In other news, Ward Connerly said something shocking two years ago.

 
 

As an academic, I’m very loathe to back rescinding anyone’s tenure for reasons other than the grossest professional malfeasance.

Well considering he wasn’t a professor but rather a participant in this horror show– as you state — doesn’t this preclude his tenure?

 
 

If enough big donors are embarrassed to be associated with UCB due to Yoo … he’ll be gone. They wouldn’t need to fuck wiht his tenure … but they’d gently show him the door.

And if he doesn’t go quietly, then the Dean of Admissions invites him on a deer hunting trip …

 
 

And we’ve killed tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for no reason.

Who’s the bigger criminal?

 
 

Disagree. He’s talking about Yoo, war Crimes and torture. This is what we’re talking about. Citing our evidence and evincing our anger isn’t dragging down the thread.

OK – except the troll isn’t a real person. He’s an automated talking point generator. I’d rather discuss it with real people.

 
 

Meaning – to clarify – the rest of you on this board. Just not the troll.

 
 

g, what makes you think I’m real?

 
 

Really. I can’t fish to save my life.

 
 

g,

What’s “to discuss” other than to register outrage, talk to our Cal friend about the finer points of protesting (good God, I went to college in the ultra-lazy late 80s and even we had riots, protests, shantytowns and arrests — it’s just weird telling someone from Berkeley not to fear the Man.) and point out yet again the moral sewer the Right wallows in?

If the discussion is Yoo is a war criminal, isn’t it apt to point out why?

 
 

I’m a man from Iowa.

 
 

Actually, the real thing to do regarding UCB is to target donors for the Law School.

The way universities work, and the UC in particular, you have to target the actual program whose budget the guy’s FTE is coming from.

Hit the School hard, and contact its major donors. Contact the development officers for the Law School.

Going to other department heads isn’t going to have much impact. what do you expect a department head to do? Department heads preside over department curricula and personnel matters. How will a department head of, say, Comparative Religion do anything in his official capacity to have an effect on Yoo’s appointment, even if he does feel sincerely about it?

Going to student groups – yes, it will generate some noise and bring attention to it.

Go to legal professional peer groups – they can decertify someone or remove his credentials; they can also affect someone’s ability to get speaking engagements, participate in professional gatherings and publications.

The other thing might be to go to members of the Faculty Board that approves tenure and step increases, and appeal to them personnally that next time Yoo is up for a step increase they turn him down. They can’t revoke tenure without cause, but they sure can stall his academic career and keep it from advancing.

 
 

I hope the custodian at Berkley swabs his ball-bag liberally around the inner lip of John Yoo’s coffee cup every morning.

-GSD

 
 

“Jauy you make alot of accusations about Americans torturing non-al-queda people for no reason. Prove it. You can’t because you’ve got nothng other than the usual leftwing America hating talking points.”

Here you go:
“One of the five Britons released from Guantanamo Bay claims US guards at the camp in Cuba tortured and abused him.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3504034.stm

“A 25-year-old Swede released last week from the US detention centre at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba said in interviews on Tuesday that he was tortured”
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1557381,00.html

“For 10 months and 10 days, Arar was in a Syrian prison, beaten and confined to a cell not much bigger than a coffin. He thanks the United States for his time in hell.”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0729-01.htm

“A German resident held by the U.S. for almost five years tells 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley that Americans tortured him in many ways – including hanging him from the ceiling for five days”
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/30/7981/

Rejecting torture, and American policies which permit and encourage torture, has nothing to do with “hating America” or being a liberal – please grow the fuck up.

 
 

Wait a minute – what happened to the fetus meat?

 
 

If the discussion is Yoo is a war criminal, isn’t it apt to point out why?

I don’t have a problem with discussing it. I just think getting in a flame war with Matt McNutcase is pointless.

 
 

The pointlessness of it is, in fact, central to my point.

 
 

I just think getting in a flame war with Matt McNutcase is pointless.

Well so is posting anything on a comment thread. But we do it because we must as liberal fascists.

 
 

The other thing might be to go to members of the Faculty Board

Maybe they can also find someone to smear BenGay in his shorts while he’s in the gym.

 
 

Matt,

Undercover US CIA operatives don’t ‘wear uniforms’ are you willing to say that they are fair game when it comes to being tortured?

-GSD

 
Governor William J. Le Petomane
 

GSD wins.

(wiping water off monitor, keyboard, front of shirt)

 
 

Dear Trolls – If you’re going to post here at least try to be amusing. Just quoting Doughboy really isn’t doing it….

 
Governor William J. Le Petomane
 

g – I agree with Jay. It’s fine to bash the trolls, real, fake or imagined. It usually either hones the discourse and helps strengthen our offline arguments (assuming any of us actually exist offline) OR it devolves into yesterday’s Gary Ruppert extravaganza. It’s really win/win either way.

 
 

Jay B, if you are using a troll to think out loud or demonstrate a nice pithy takedown for the benefit of the rest of us, more power to you – just so you know that you will never shed any light into their dark troll-ey skulls, because they are not arguing in good faith to begin with.

They are props, not sparring partners.

 
 

Just so you know that you will never shed any light into their dark troll-ey skulls, because they are not arguing in good faith to begin with

What?! I am new to this series of tubes, please enlighten me further about the strange ways and customs of this most curious place.

And yes, it is an idiot. I do not hope to change minds. Only to vent. Which is why I post anything, even if it is NOT directed at a troll. However, since it was bringing up things germane to the venting I was doing (WARNING: People in the real world may employ similar language to the robot, some may be shamed or swayed by proof to the contrary, even if said troll is not programmed for it), I thought it was OK to vent at the subsequent “points” it was puking out.

 
 

In other words, we could debate properly, or we could curse and make with the poop jokes.

And we choose the latter!

 
 

yes. the latter is the better.

 
 

The fact is, I love crushed testicles.

 
 

Sorry, didn’t mean to sound condescending. Or be all, “I make the rules around here.” Just my standard issue, mass circulation $0.02 piece.

Carry on, as you would if I didn’t say “carry on”

 
 

Stop laughing at me!

 
 

I’d like to see a proper debate on the poop joke. Perhaps “Poop: better than trolls in every way, or just funnier?”

 
Garoy Battyuppert
 

The fact is, liberals, I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

 
Rugged in Montana
 

Woo said that torture was not torture unless it involved organ failure. He’s right, you know……my organ has failed and it’s real torture. Not that you LIE-bruls care, you’re so busy losing your essence via your non-failed organs that the Islamowingers are threatening the Heartland with their massive Muslim Armada and black helecopters. I pray that our patriot President, George Willard Bush, jet pilot hero of the Battle of the Iraq War, will win this election against Hitlery and Osama and lead us to victory in the war against the swarthy ones! The USA of America is NUMBER 1!!!

 
 

Well, see, here’s the thing.

Unlike trolls, which come in only two varieties, there is an infinite spectrum of poop.

So while a troll can be described in binary terms of “parody” or “Not Parody”, poop will always require a much more nuanced description…

mikey

 
 

On another note, I LIKE alfalfa sprouts every bit as much as the next guy.

But why oh WHY do so many otherwise upstanding and respectable sandwich shops feel the need to pile them three or four inches high on what would, in a more balanced presentation, be a wonderful ham and cheese?

Alfalfa sprouts: Vastly overused, or just annoying in volume?

mikey

 
 

I’d like to see a proper debate on the poop joke. Perhaps “Poop: better than trolls in every way, or just funnier?”

Certainly cleaner and more appetizing.

 
 

shit

 
 

I make big poopie!

 
 

I watched an incredibly lonely guy drop his pants and sit on top of a fire hydrant on a snowy winter night.

(I saw this in my headlights while driving to a friends house. I SO wish I was joking about this. I hope the hydrant wasn’t frosty).

 
 

Nobody does pie like Gary, especially poo pie.

 
 

I hope the hydrant wasn’t frosty

I wonder if it is possible to get some sort of “tongue sticking to the pole” effect in that situation. *evil smile*

 
 

I didn’t hang around to find out.

 
Rugged in Montana
 

I watched an incredibly lonely guy drop his pants and sit on top of a fire hydrant on a snowy winter night.

Uhhh……….you don’t live in Montana, do you?

 
 

For Mikey (and Syd Barrett):

Gastronomy Domine

Lime and limpid green, alfalfa bean
A fight between the blue you once knew.
Floating down, the sprouts resound
Around the icy waters underground.
Ham and cheese and Gherkin, Oberon, Pastrami
And Titania, Neptune, Titan.
Stars can frighten.

 
 

Bob Suffered from organ failure. Nothing a little blue pill from Pfizer didn’t fix. Not to mention a copy of Swank on Liddy’s shriveled back,

-Bob Dole

 
 

The fact is, [monotone] you are all ugly bags of mostly water.

 
 

Mikey – Other than looking nice, I’m not sure “sprouts” add much to the flavor party.

 
 

I once made a poop joke at this very blog. It involved three hunters, the Canadian backcountry, pie crust, and a large steaming moose turd.

IIRC, it was a big hit.

When you think about it, that story served multiple purposes – it elevated the discussion re: poop, and it referenced a very nice little something to serve up to teh trolls.

Now I’m gonna go scour the cookbooks for a good pie recipe that uses fetus meat. I’m thinking maybe a variation on the famous French Canadian toutiere. (which is not an anagram of the word torture, though some could argue that point.)

 
 

Matt:

Undercover police officers – no uniforms.

Diplomats and politicians – no uniforms.

CIA agents – no uniforms.

American tourists, students, business people abroad – no uniforms.

Civilian contractors – no uniforms.

Daniel Pearl – no uniform.

European Jews – no uniforms.

See how this works, fuck-wit?

 
 

Gary, they’re called “boobies”. And no, you can’t touch one.

 
 

Oh well. Carry on Jay, I didn’t mean to be a nanny. But quarreling with trolls never brings satisfaction – especially these guys.

Bring on the poop jokes!

 
 

I’m not sure “sprouts” add much to the flavor party.

Is this turning into a flavor party? I though it was an angry party.

 
 

Sprouts are a texture party, which is okay in smaller doses than sandwich places want to get away with.

 
 

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Troll/s:

* Guy who says the Abu Ghraib footage was pure boffo.
* Said Saddam was in cahoots with an organization he had declared a criminal gang – one that had an active bounty on his head.
* Said the insurgents are BOTH religious fanatics AND “godless barbarians” with a straight face.
* Said a speck of protein the size of a pinhead is a “baby” while defending America’s “right” to frag REAL CHILDREN. Not to mention trying to pin it on the same insurgents who just called off a counter-offensive they were plainly winning – in order to spare needless civilian casualties.
* Said an American university faculty has the “right” to support a war crime (torture) citing the same freedom of speech he’ll happily abuse the courts to crush if someone here dares to go after a piece of human scabies like Yoo for his total lack of humanity. Then calls the people OPPOSED to Americans engaging in torture “fascists” as if desperate to show off his status as a raging imbecile.

Keep right on bringing your weak, numbnuts.
You can’t delete a word of it.
It’s going to come back to haunt you.
For many many years to come.

I’d fight to the death for your right to spew your mental septicemia.
It helps the rest of us to see what a complete failure you are as a human being.

You have no conscience?
Some of us still do.
That really bothers you, huh?
Deal.

 
 

If a government defendant were to harm an enemy combatant during an interrogation in a manner that might arguably violate a criminal prohibition, he would be doing so in order to prevent further attacks on the United States by the al Qaeda terrorist network,” Yoo wrote. “In that case, we believe that he could argue that the executive branch’s constitutional authority to protect the nation from attack justified his actions.”

Qualify much?

Anyone can argue anything? Argue effectively? Not so much.

 
 

Oops, I meant to reference – Gary, they’re called “boobies”.

 
 

Wow Jim, that was fucking great. All in one neat little package that I will be stealing. Ok?

 
 

I feel I should add, after the fact, that while people have the right to free speech, they don’t have the right to teach at a university.

 
 

Not that they aren’t allowed to, I mean, it’s just that the university doesn’t have to hire if they don’t want to.

 
 

Well said Jim!!

 
 

Yoo got a lot of nerve
To say Yoo are my friend
When I was tied up, beaten, raped, electrocuted, starved, and mauled by large dogs Yoo just stood there grinnin

 
 

Karma’s gotta gum this little shitbag of a man and then hand him over to something with blunt teeth for all eternity.

 
 

I have this imaginary moment where John Yoo is magically transported to the fishhook in cambodia in 1970. Where he has to try and make decisions that will keep him alive for another ten minutes, another hour, another day. Where the most evil of his calculations are not just authorized, but are necessary survival tools, except that in this model he has to execute them in real time, under fire, at night with arty falling danger close. Where he gets to be the unitary executive that can offer life and deal death, but it’s down to your rifle and your grenades and your bayonet that take those lives, and a bad decision gets you and your friends killed, hard and ugly.

Where John Yoo learns the price of suffering, the cost of pain, the value of honor, and still decides to shit on the covenant and finds himself alone in a hole on the wrong side of a collapsing perimeter looking for help or mercy and finding only the vicious expression of mans inhumanity and hatred. And finds he doesn’t have the sawdust and sand to live thru the night.

That, my friends, feels like justice to me…

mikey

 
 

I was gonna go ballistic on this evil motherfucker, but mikey, as usual, expressed my feelings best.

 
 

from mikey:“Where he gets to be the unitary executive..”etc.

Nice to dream…..

Got an email today ,from a contact that’s pretty sharp , about everything. (He also wrote to the CA Board of Regents “demanding” that they fire his (Yoo) ass, and stop giving him taxpayer $ to teach torture, badly )

“Has anybody noticed yet that under unitary executive theory, if the
Torture Memo constitutes a war crime, the person who must be prosecuted is not John Yoo, but President George W. Bush. That’s what unitary executive means: That all accountability and access is through the executive.”

-xxxxxxxxx

Ooops!

Bet Yoo forgot to mention that part to Prez. Gump.

 
 

In the spirit of Bill Hicks, I believe we have the star of the pilot for my fall ’08 reality show “Let’s Kidnap and Waterboard Warmongering Right-Wing Filth”.

But if UCB’s students can drive the fucker out of Boalt Hall first, that would be nice. Frees him up to be unsuspectingly dragged off a street, flown 8,000 miles and tied up in a shithole.

 
 

Nutellaon Toast: “Chuck Yoo”.

On stickers, on posters, on banners…

 
 

I have been laughing everytime I think of “John ‘whassamatta’ Yoo” for a good twenty four hours now. This is getting ridiculous. I have already spent a week chuckling over the photo of N.W.A. with “Spizzecial Cuzzuverage” stamped across it.

This is serious shit. I can’t keep chuckling and snickering whenever someone brings up the Bush admin’s vile, unrepentant torture policies or our country’s inability to discuss race in a mature and thoughtful manner.

Damn you.

 
 

I hear ya Lisa.

If I were to make a movie about where we are and where we may be headed, it would end with Sadlynaughts being gassed – and telling poop jokes.

 
 

Shorter Yoo: Badges?! We don’t need no stinkin’ badges!

 
 

This thread is old and gray, but I’m still going to contribute this John Yoo quote from today’s NY Times.

In an e-mail, Yoo has denied that his memo had anything to do with what happened a few months later at Abu Ghraib:
While each case of abuse is regrettable, it is not possible for a large organization charged with protecting the national security, under extraordinary pressure, to perform its mission error-free.

Contemptible turd.

 
 

We (Toast, you still there?) really do need to find someone to rub BenGay into his shorts while he’s in the gym.

 
 

Toast: this guy’s got the right idea

http://brendancalling.com/2008/04/02/shaming-and-shunning/

 
 

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