Erk!

That’s some fine reasoning they’ve got goin’ on over at the poorly named Talk Left.

Jeralyn is still very worth reading over there, btw, but BTD is a non-stop Obama trasher who adopts wingnut talking points to tear him down.

You know, I always bite, think the S,N! crew are exaggerating for comic effect, and then click through.

Sadly, no.

The argument actually goes:
1) Ben Smith of Politico doesn’t think Clinton can pull out the popular vote.
2) Bill Clinton says the convention choice will be easier if Obama leads in both the popular vote and the delegate count.
3) I, Big Tent Democrat, agree that Clinton probably can’t catch Obama in the popular vote.
4) ZOMG, Obama can haz contempt?!?11!

Will I loose credits if I don’t go there? I’m fatigued.

Eh. Isn’t Big Tent Democrat the latest incarnation of Armando? Mr. Crossed Swords himself?

How can anyone take anything he writes seriously?

christ. lose. I can’t spell either.

The bunker mentality of some of the Clinton supporters is alarming. Really an us-against-them vibe. I wish there was some way to overcome that.

Check out those comments. And we’re supposed to be the cultists? Some of these Clintonistas seem like they’re ready to salt the earth of the contested states just to spite Obama.

Robert – we don’t need to exaggerate, since we attack contradictory reasoning that’s spaced out over long pieces. By shortening it, it highlights the contradiction for all to see. That’s the trick of writing a good “shorter.”

The bunker mentality of some of the Clinton supporters is alarming. Really an us-against-them vibe. I wish there was some way to overcome that.

Honestly, I’d be perfectly happy to vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination. I think she’s smart as hell and would make a fine preznit.

But Jesus, the way her supporters are adopting wingnut talking points is disgusting.

He forgot to close the </clutchespearls> tag after It is quite unseemly imo.

That’s the trick of writing a good “shorter.”

Well thanks a lot for ruining the magic for us.

Cue the Hillary-or-no one folks coming over to tell you how much a cultist you are and how St. Obama isn’t gonna magically fix everything like you think he is and that he isn’t a perfect example of a human being like you think he is. I swear, the only people I see pushing the “Obama as Messiah” meme are Clinton supporters being douchebags.

The bottom line is, regardless of who wins the Dem nomination, McCain will be President.

http://www.surveyusa.com

No, no, Armando claims to be a “tepid Obama supporter.” With tepid supporters like him, who needs wingnuts? The whole “civility” lie they tell themselves over there is pretty hilarious, considering Armando was notorious at Kos for unleashing a stream of profanity at anyone who dared question his wisdom.

Finally, contra Bradrocket, Jeralyn Merritt isn’t worth reading either in her election posts. She’s completely in the Hillary tank. In one of his speeches, Obama was talking about the cynical tendency to exploit differences between “immigrants, gays and other people who aren’t like us”. Jeralyn took this as an opportunity to comment “Obama just said immigrants and gays aren’t like us.” When somebody replied by posting the quote in context, she said “See, he said it.”

That place is like LGF for Hillary fans.

Jeralyn is still very worth reading over there

Is she, though? I’ve mostly forsworn the site, but last I saw she was willfully misquoting and cherry-picking Obama speeches to insist that he thinks gays and immigrants aren’t normal, and saying that she will not vote for Obama in the general unless he agrees to seat the MI delegation as is (elected though they were without BHO’s name on the ballot).

I too will unquestioningly vote for HRC in the general, BTW.

Jeralyn took this as an opportunity to comment “Obama just said immigrants and gays aren’t like us.” When somebody replied by posting the quote in context, she said “See, he said it.”

Ha. I’m pwnd, I see. But pwnd by someone quoting me at TL (I’m the somebody)!

Obama won’t win because red states won’t vote for him, and he’ll win blue states by less now then he would have a week ago?

Thanks, saul. Always a fine use of bandwidth, you are.

We’re all somebody, oudemia! Sorry for forgetting your pseud.

Oh, and poll sites that only have McCain ads are surely 100% accurate and not bullshit push polls.

Would you expect any less from Saul?

Where’s my, “Shalom, gentlemen?” Huh?

Yahweh would not be pleased.

,,,and saying that she will not vote for Obama in the general unless he agrees to seat the MI delegation as is (elected though they were without BHO’s name on the ballot).

Taylor Marsh’s advice to her echo chamber is to make sure and show up in November and vote for the “down ticket” candidates. Meaning the other races. When asked to clarify, she or one of her administrators will simply repeat the statement. Damn that’s weaselly. I guess I’ll give Jeralyn a little credit for at least taking a stand. Even if it’s a dumb one.

Wait my liberal friends, I have even more good news. On February the 12th in Maryland’s first Congressional District, the RINO Wayne Gilchrest was defeated by a true champion of Conservatism Andy Harris. In order to get a better understanding of the principles and values Conservatives hold dear check out Andy’s website.

http://www.andyharris08.org

Good old Armando. He’s the definition of a cob logger.

What I find fairly insane about TalkLeft is the sentiment among most of their commenters that somehow not counting the delegates in FL & MI is some huge subversion of democracy, and that darn Obama and his affirmative action presidency is going to win the nomination unfairly. They never, ever mention that FL & MI were warned by the DNC that they’d lose their delegates by moving up their primaries. They never, ever put the blame where it squarely belongs: on the shoulders of party leaders in those states. Hell, most of the commenters over there don’t even think there should be a revote! They think the results, as they stand, are the ones that should count. You see it at MyDD too, where they have the little sidebar graphs of the “2008 Nomination Delegate Counter”. One says “(incl. FL & MI)”. I should try a similar approach for my Quicken DBs — have one that says “(incl. $10 million won in imaginary lottery).

You’d think they’d be sick to their stomachs that the Old Perfesser is approvingly linking to TL at least once a week, but I guess they’re doing so much linking to the right wing sites themselves that their blog ecology has shifted and they don’t really notice that they’ve become part of the Wurlitzer.

I hate to talk smack about a site I used to read every day, but BTD has ruined TalkLeft. Still trying to figure out where the hell Jeralyn lost her mind.

The bunker mentality of some of the Clinton supporters is alarming. Really an us-against-them vibe. I wish there was some way to overcome that.

Bunker busters. But first … we paint smiley faces on them.

I kid. I think the fanatics for both candidates will snap out of it once the general begins. To be nice and kind and completely unlike my normal self I think that after seven years of knowing the “other guy” was a complete and utter bastards, they’ve forgotten that the “other guy” can be just the other guy.

Of course, some of those maniacs are just plain assholes. I’d almost forgotten we had assholes.

Thanks saul, the moderate voters in the 12th district will be happy to hand a wingnut his hat in November. Just one more greasy spot under the dem steamroller in 2008.

I am Gary Ruppert.

I used to love the TL–back when it was like your local corner bar (complete with its resident troll). Ever since its been overrun with the disenfranchised KOS posters, it is unbearable. It is not much fun over there these days unless you like pointless arguements.

Oh, and Jeralyn called Iowa flat and boring.

#

Josh E. said,

March 21, 2008 at 22:03

We’re all somebody, oudemia! Sorry for forgetting your pseud.

Wait, wait, wait. I read all about this earlier. If we’re all somebody, then no one is.

Since neither Obama nor Clinton will have the necessary number of delegates to capture the nomination without Super Delegate support, the popular vote contest, though unofficial, becomes significant.

According to Mark Penn, only – and I do mean only – if it favors her.

Huh. Would ya look at that.

You want some sick “destroy the party for Hillary” bullshit, check this out:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

@ Brad: I get the “Shorter”. It’s just that I always click through thinking it can’t be as bad as advertised–and then it is, and I can’t decide whether it’s hilarious or pitiful that wingnut arguments really are the way our caricatures depict them.

FWIW, according to DemConWatch, including MI and FL delegates as currently pledged, AND all the Superdelegates who have endorsed, Clinton is still actually one delegate behind Obama.

Armando? I had managed to put his very existence out of my mind. I am now flooded with unpleasant memories of his abusive and delusional self-importance. What a raging asshole he is!

Talk Left – The Politics of Crime

Sorta says it all right there. They’d be perfectly happy to see Clinton steal the nomination from the rightful winner. Now that’d be a crime against democracy.

I don’t know why those people don’t realize that if Hillary gets the nomination through underhanded tactics, all hell’s gonna break loose on the convention floor before a national audience. The party will tear in two, and there’ll be no way Clinton can build a winning coalition from what’ll be left over.

I’ll be there to protest it as part of Plan Jericho.

Armando’s always been an idiot. Recall his introducing of Mike Krempasky and Tacky-Trevino to DailyKos, and his vouching for them that they were “honest conservatives.”

And Jeralyn still has good things to say about Glenn Reynolds’s punditry — always has.

Of *course* TL-ers are die-hard Clinton supporters. Of *course* they think everyone to their perceived left is a threat.

I actually read over there that Obama would lose worse in the GE than Mondale. To quote Max von Sydow in Hannah and Her Sisters, can you imagine the level of a mind that thinks Obama would lose like Mondale (and, more importantly, that Hillary would win)?

Talk Left has turned into a more literate version of hillaryis44.org. Jeralyn’s posts on crime and justice are still mostly worth reading, but everything else has just turned into noise

I find those ‘striking’ Kos posters to be in somewhat of a fog. Haven’t they been paying attention? Didn’t they read Crashing the Gate? What part of the 50 state plan instead of the 51% plan did they not catch? Didn’t they pick up that Markos really dislikes the DLC?

Honestly, I’d be perfectly happy to vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination. I think she would make a fine preznit.

I don’t. I think if she is elected, in the summer of 2010 or so a group of neocons, Iranian exiles, and oil company execs will tell her that we need to invade Iran because they have nuclear weapons ready to use against us at 45 minutes’ notice and she’ll say “sounds good to me!” I think electing Hillary will just mean a continuation of trash politics, like the Jeremiah Wright nonsense. I think she is owned by health insurance corporations. And I think if she were smart, she wouldn’t be paying that slimeball Mark Penn millions of dollars to drive her campaign off a cliff.

I don’t. I think if she is elected, in the summer of 2010 or so a group of neocons, Iranian exiles, and oil company execs will tell her that we need to invade Iran because they have nuclear weapons ready to use against us at 45 minutes’ notice and she’ll say “sounds good to me!”

On the other hand, McCain *already has said that*.

So, if not Obama…

… do you want someone who it’ll take another year and a half to decide to invade Iran based on our worst-case scenario of Beltway politics, or someone who is already set on it by January 24th, 2009 and is in fact running on that platform?

yeah, i think the rest of the sentence “i think hillary will be a fine preznit” was going to be “compared to john 100 years of war mclame.”

i too mourn the decent of talkleft into hillary uber alles land. jeralyn has always been a good supporter of skippy, and it tears me up i can’t legitimately support her positions, or at least her tone.

it came to a head for me when the supposed obama “plagiarism” happened. both jeralyn and armando were talking real smack, saing obama was finished.

i would have happily given them their opinion that it was a bad thing for obama to have done (tho i don’t think i was) or that it was going to hurt him (which it didn’t), i was aghast at the intensity of schedenfreude pouring out of their site.

i miss the old talkleft that prided itself on objectivity in all things.

as for taylor marsh, who also supported skippy from the beginning, all i can say it instaputz calls her norma desmond. and it works for me.

Sez one non-self aware Hillary supporter in the comments

I stopped going to Orangetown a month ago (5.00 / 2) (#126)
by pluege on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:57:35 AM EST
The Great Orange Satan’s (per Atrios) roost is a lost cause – they’ve made it all personal. So much so that they’ve created mental barriers to all contrary notions and the still many unknowns that could result in a Clinton nomination. But they are so invested in Obamamania and ‘my way or the highwayism’ over there that they are likely to work against Clinton in the general election (as they do now in their demonizing of Clinton) if she wins – they certainly won’t be supporting her in any meaningful way.

The denizens of Orangeville have demonstrated infatuation with themselves and their hardened notions of Obama as the only legitimate democratic nominee, rather than the ONLY truly important result of keeping a republican out of the White House.

It’s sad to see that kind of projection from a non right winger.

Shorter Huffington Post: Hillary Clinton Eats Babies.

Can’t you do better than that, Marco? No link, nothing, to back up your shorter?

Shorter Marco: Hillary Clinton is the Jew of Liberal Fascism.

Shorter Daily Kos: Merlin is to Wizardry as Hillary is to Grand Wizardry.

Shorter Marco: Wah.

Shorter Patkin: Irrational Anti-Clinton Ass-hattery cannot be found on the interwebs.

Ok, so that’s actually Patkin Longer but…

Yeah, still gonna go with “wah.” Pretty much encapsulates your whole complaint in a short, succinct word.

Christ, you’re supporting CLINTON. Shouldn’t you have fucking thicker skin? Isn’t that the whole reason to support Clinton, “she’s dealt with this shit before!” But no, treating Clinton for who she is, a center-right moderate Democrat, gets the tears welling up.

We’re all somebody, oudemia!

“I Am–Somebody!”

Oops, wrong Black Messiah.

“Be somebody, or be somebody’s fool!”

Wait, that’s the wrong Black Messiah too.