I know what the liberals are asking: Why is [Spitzer] such a big deal, and Sen. David Vitter’s previous experience with call girls isn’t?

Shut up, that’s why.

And there you go. IOIFAR at work, and never has there been a clearer example of it.

For the record, does anyone have any evidence that any liberal called for Vitter’s resignation? Or were we just greatly amused by it all?

I don’t know why. I enjoy reading the insanity of Mary Grabar, or Noonan, or the hypocrisy of Medved. For some reason, I have no interest whatsoever in what Ace O’ Spades says, does or thinks. I just can’t make it happen. Same with that guy Edroso (Erdroso?) is always flogging.. the one in Minnesota… you know… whatsizname

Oh! Hey! I was frist!

yay me.

I thought liberal blogs were supposed to be intolerant of diversity of opinion, like all good liberal fascists. Get your story straight, guys.

I know what the liberals are asking: Why is [Spitzer] such a big deal, and Sen. David Vitter’s previous experience with call girls isn’t?

Shut up, that’s why.

Well, at least he recognizes that he can’t rationally defend attacking Spitzer while defending Vitter.

Just ’cause I never get tired of linking to this:

http://kscakes.com/LolCats/Detail.aspx/ace-sez-do-not-want/

By the way, just in case nobody’s seen it – Jane Hamsher raises a couple questions about this case:

http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/some-questions-about-the-spitzer-incident/

[…] o’ Spades, proudly carrying the banner for today’s conservative movement, carefully explains why we shouldn’t view his selective prudery as the most transparent kind of […]

Say what you will, I’m still waiting for the cartoon of Sen. Vitter dressed up like Baby New Year, didie and all.

Uhhh, what’s with the burning skull graphic in the original post? Did he really not have anything better to use?

As for the “Shut up, that’s why!” comment: Well, at least can sorta-kinda-but-not-quite bring himself to admit his hypocrisy, probably the best we can hope for right now.

Shut up, that’s why.

I hear the echo of Ace’s mother’s voice in that sentence.

Cob loggers? Oh… wait, now I get it.

Shorter Ace:

“Hey! These three people said different things! Hypocrites.”

But on something like this, I really think that Glenn Greenwald, Rick Ellensberg, and Thomas Ellers should synthesize their positions so their joint blog isn’t so hopelessly schizophrenic.

Remember kids, if liberal bloggers don’t all agree on a particular subject it’s either a) hypocrisy or b) typical of the aimlessness and decadence of the Left.

For righty bloggers, though, it shows their admirable devotion to dissidence.

Now, of course, were Greenwald et al to AGREE, why, then it would be further proof of the totalitarian hive-mind of the Left brooking no disagreement, while for the right it would show their noble devotion to the cause.

Oh, and by the way, never ever use bad language like those dirty fucking hippies do.

For example, it’d be VERY WRONG for me to suggest we just call him “Ace of Spooge” from now on, given his apparent obsessions.

I wonder what the right whingers will be saying when Republican names start surfacing on the client list?

BREAKING: OMG Hitlery KKKlinton has appeared at political events with Spitzer. This PROVES that she killed VInce Foster in blind rage originating from a lesbian love affair!!

regardless of Ace’s mindless hypocrisy, can I say that I am weary, so weary of seeing the painful, beaten, humiliated faces of the wives of these guys standing beside them at their press conferences?

Yes, I ‘m also looking at YOU Bill Clinton.

Just once, I’d like to see a guy standing their alone, with the wife having a press conference from her front door saying she’s changed the locks and thrown his shit on the front lawn.

I wonder what the right whingers will be saying when Republican names start surfacing on the client list?

Strangely, those names on the lists will appear to have been lost in some sort of bizarre and unfortunate and “no one could have anticipated” email / hard disk mixup.

My wife has resubscribed to the digital TV package that will allow us to watch Faux News. I’m really looking forward to seeing how they’re playing this 🙂

I’m really looking forward to seeing how they’re playing this 🙂

No doubt classily, with little fanfare and a ‘let’s wait for the facts’ approach.

Have any of these guys noticed that Spitzer’s pretty much got no defenders whatsoever? That they’ve still got their whoremongers and public sex addicts and we’re telling ours to resign?

No, of course not. That would require reading for comprehension.

The intellectual inconsistency doesn’t bother me so much since I’ve no doubt done the same myself, but it’s worth pointing out that we are, as usual, better than they are. They tolerate this shit and we do not.

Mike B.– I defend Spitzer.

What retards like Ace don’t understand is that Vitter is an anti-life, anti-American, anti-freedom, gay and woman hating, abstinence-only, lying pervert hypocrite; Spitzer is a brave, honorable AG who busted a few prosties as part of his job but openly said “it’s not a big deal”–he got on the wrong side of Wall st. and Bush’s illegal wiretaps have been used to humiliate him and force him out of office. You chickenshit rightwing alcoholic wimps should stop buzzcutting your hair like a 1950s 8-year-old and grow the fuck up already.

Still, “Eliot P. Ness” is brilliant. No use defending the guy if we can’t laugh about it too.

I’ll defend the stupid fucker. Politicians should have a special dispensation from the government to visit prostitutes. Actually, given their necessarliy huge egos, their incredibly high-stress jobs, and their need for popularity & praise, visiting prostitutes is probably one of the better things they can do with their free time. Its kind of like what they always do to their willing dupes, “the public”, but it’s a more honest, clean and socially useful kind of fucking.

Robert McClelland said,

March 11, 2008 at 16:13

I wonder what the right whingers will be saying when Republican names start surfacing on the client list?

No underlying crime! No underlying crime!

Shut up, that’s why.

Spoken like a true ten year old.

‘Course, he is kind of a hypocrite for busting other johns & prostitutes.

…should read, “former AG”…

I know what the liberals are asking: Why is [Spitzer] such a big deal, and Sen. David Vitter’s previous experience with call girls isn’t?

Shut up, that’s why.

Repeated just because it states their level of discourse SOOO perfectly and, for that reason, it’s so funny. They should have this message spelled out on the side of derrigibles and trailing from banners behind bi-planes.

atheist: i disagree. doing your job prosecuting the law and being tempted to break one of those minor, stupid laws is wrong, not hypocritical. it was his JOB; Vitter is just a flaming rightwing pervert who attacked people on “moral” grounds–which he has NO f*cking right to do, ever, for any reason. spitzer never made a BIG DEAL of his prostie busts, the way Giuliani did with his anti-topless/porn attacks while screwing Judy (and his previous squeeze) on his desk at City Hall.

again: spitzer HAD to prosecute the johns/prosties; not to do so would be ILLEGAL. it doesn’t mean he’s a hypocrite if he felt the stupid need to screw around on the side. Only freelance crusading moralist perverts like Vitter should resign, NOT heroic crimefighters like Spitzer.

regardless of Ace’s mindless hypocrisy, can I say that I am weary, so weary of seeing the painful, beaten, humiliated faces of the wives of these guys standing beside them at their press conferences?

Yes, I ‘m also looking at YOU Bill Clinton.

Just once, I’d like to see a guy standing their alone, with the wife having a press conference from her front door saying she’s changed the locks and thrown his shit on the front lawn.

Oh, yes, just what I was thinking. “What? Hell no I’m not standing beside that jerk. I’m getting the best attorney his money can buy. When I’m through with him his days of $5000 call girls are over. He won’t be able to afford a $50 bj.”

I know what the liberals are asking: Why is [Spitzer] such a big deal, and Sen. David Vitter’s previous experience with call girls isn’t?

Shut up, that’s why.

Being comfortable with this level of hypocricy requires a special kind of self-hate. I recommend the following:

http://www.wikihow.com/Hug

OTB:

I see what you are saying, and that does make sense. Still, I see it differently. Prostitution is one of the stupidest ‘crimes’ ever thought up by the totally useless cobags of organized religion. Prostitution gives some assholes, who can’t get laid on their own because of whatever reason, an outlet for their tensions. It also gives some women, who don’t like regular work, a way of making a living. Win/win.

Course, he is kind of a hypocrite for busting other johns & prostitutes

Well, it was his job to do so–he didn’t make the laws, but he did swear an oath to uphold and enforce them.

Now, did he go out of his way to target prostitutes and johns? Did he make speech after speech explaining how the decay of morals and loss of family values were destroying the country? Then he’d certainly be a hypocrite, and I’d be happy to see him go.

Otherwise, my reaction is more of a rolled-eye, head-shaking “Dude! What were you THINKING?”

And yeah, how come Dems who get caught doing something–anything– must RESIGN IMMEDIATELY and every other Dem must denounce them publicly and return any money received from them? And yet GOP figures can take a conviction and keep on ticking, with no one batting an eye?

I’m sooooooo tired of the double standard bullshit.

Shut up, that’s why.

The patriarchal answer to all things. That, and “Ask your mother”.

Spitzer should stick it out

Now, did he go out of his way to target prostitutes and johns? Did he make speech after speech explaining how the decay of morals and loss of family values were destroying the country? Then he’d certainly be a hypocrite, and I’d be happy to see him go.

OK, good point.

And yes, the bullshit double standard does suck.

So maybe we should defend the guy. Who else is gonna? Our pathetic excuse for a national media? Give me a fucking break.

I’d like to say that I don’t care about this case, nor have I ever really cared about any sex scandal case not involving live animals and kazoo quintets. Unless it somehow affects their performance as a government official, whatever they want with whoever they want.

That said, I’m not going to deny the schadenfreuder of watching some loud mouth, smelling-salts, moral-absolutist blow hard being caught getting, well, blown hard. I just don’t think it’s grounds for demanding resignation, as it makes no sense to me to pretend like this thing never ever happens to normal people.

Maybe we need to defend the guy. Seriously. It pisses me off but.. somebody needs to defend the guy.

I just don’t think it’s grounds for demanding resignation, as it makes no sense to me to pretend like this thing never ever happens to normal people.

Exactly.

Just once, I’d like to see a guy standing their alone, with the wife having a press conference from her front door saying she’s changed the locks and thrown his shit on the front lawn.

Well, when Rudy threw over his wife on TV, he did announce it alone. The woman in question did hold a press conference, but I think she was taken too off-guard to

Know what pisses me off the most about Spitzer? Fucker’s got three daughters. I think they’re all in their teens or thereabouts, and now they get to live with this shit. If Spitzer were a decent human being, he’d’ve looked at the whore, thought “You know, there’s a risk this could get out, and I can’t stand the thought of what would happen to my daughters if it did,” and walked away.

Hey Ace, consult your doctor if your erection last more than four hours.

For the record, does anyone have any evidence that any liberal called for Vitter’s resignation?
Absolutely none. Larry Craig’s resignation either. But I can bet some serious cash that by tomorrow night it will be an accepted-without-debate MSM/GOP fact that we were all screaming for it.

I’d like to say that I don’t care about this case, nor have I ever really cared about any sex scandal case not involving live animals and kazoo quintets.

Bingo. Mark Foley was important because it was kids. Let Vitter and Spitzer pretend they’re rock stars as long as they get the job done. And Spitzer has been getting the job done.

Wasn’t it most of the GOP that was screaming for Craig’s resignation?

The fact that Spitzer was visiting prostitutes despite having a wife and family says something about his judgment. I just don’t approve of adultery — if you’ve made the commitment, live by it. Unless you have some arrangement with your wife and everything is conducted above-board, it’s lying and sneaking around, and that’s not an appropriate mode of living for an attorney general or a governor.

Also, I think there needs to be some attention given to the money he was moving around — was it all his? If there’s a chance that taxpayer/government funds went into the coffers of the whorehouse, I think that would be a serious problem. (I don’t know if there are any such allegations, but that would make it hard to defend the guy.)

I know what the liberals are asking: Why is [Spitzer] such a big deal, and Sen. David Vitter’s previous experience with call girls isn’t?

Shut up, that’s why.

I know it’s fun to put words into the other guy’s mouth and all, but I’m having a hard time finding what he really…

…Holy shit! He *did* say it!

Naw, why should he resign? This wasn’t connected with his official duties. He shouldn’t face any more severe sentence than the people he prosecuted. Shouldn’t face any less, either.

Also, I think the larger story is

Incidentally… Greenwald claims there’s endless “hand-wringing” and “breathless moralizing” over this case “from all sides.”

I dunno. I didn’t have much time to read other blogs today but I didn’t see much of that.

Look at Atrios or Americablog. The lack of any sympathy for the man is deafening.

If he wants to claim that Atrios isn’t the bigs, um…OK.

It does show that Spitzer’s fiscal responsibility is less than one might hope for in a governor.

Shorter Ace: ner nerdily ner ner ner ner ner. I am a political commentator. Also I am rubber, and you are glue.

So people should stop having different opinions on things, because Ace finds it all terribly confusing. I appreciate the honesty there.

People, incidentally, and it’s not just women, who are prostitutes by choice don’t just “prefer it to regular work”, and that’s one of the oddest ways I’ve ever heard that put. Do you mean “regular” as in “legal”? All jobs involve selling your time and your talent. And whoring doesn’t involve selling your mind the way office jobs often do.

I completely support the legalization of prostitution, but I still won’t defend Spitzer because I cannot bring myself to defend people who prosecute or arrest whores while using them for sex. It’s been too often my experience that they regard the illegal status of the transaction as a way to shake whores down for sex with threats of prosecution and arrest. Which is the sort of thing that makes someone an astonishing asshole.

Look at Atrios or Americablog. The lack of any sympathy for the man is deafening.

Yeah. Kinda disturbing to me. It’s like we buy into what the media is selling us.

People, incidentally, and it’s not just women, who are prostitutes by choice don’t just “prefer it to regular work”, and that’s one of the oddest ways I’ve ever heard that put. Do you mean “regular” as in “legal”? All jobs involve selling your time and your talent. And whoring doesn’t involve selling your mind the way office jobs often do.

I mean as opposed to an office job, or a service job, or an industrial job. I guess you could say prostitution is a service job, but, it does seem a bit different to me. Like, less regular hours, etc. But really I just meant as opposed to more ‘normal’ jobs.

& yes its not just women, I shouldn’t have said that.

Speaking as a small businessman in private practice, D.Sidhe has a perfectly valid point:

I’ve been selling myself for ten years, and been ass-fucked for pay several times. All perfectly legal cuz it’s not ostensibly about sex.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Isn’t it time to move a bit beyond the morality of the 1890’s?

The lack of any sympathy for the man is deafening.

Why should I have sympathy for him? There are plenty of other people deserving of sympathy who won’t be comfortable on family money for the rest of their lives.

I completely support the legalization of prostitution, but I still won’t defend Spitzer because I cannot bring myself to defend people who prosecute or arrest whores while using them for sex.

Sure that makes sense. But you could also make the argument that he had to prosecute prostitutes and johns because the law mandates it. If indeed, Spitzer shook down prostitutes &/or abused them by using his position, that would indeed be bad. However, is there evidence that Spitzer did indeed do that? I haven’t heard it.

Actually, I’ll defend the slob from stepping down from his job; as was pointed out upthread, it’s not as if it doesn’t happen every day to people all over the country.

But I’m afraid I can’t muster much sympathy for anyone who’s screwing around on his marriage partner. It’s a breach of trust that is repugnant, and my sympathy lies with the partner and family.

As Digby said, maybe it shouldn’t be a crime, but we also shouldn’t let slime like Larry Craig, John McCain, and Diapers Vitter set the standard for morality.

But I’m afraid I can’t muster much sympathy for anyone who’s screwing around on his marriage partner. It’s a breach of trust that is repugnant, and my sympathy lies with the partner and family.

Sure. I’m less interested in people’s personal feelings than in how a system uses information to punish people who are in the public eye.

But you could also make the argument that he had to prosecute prostitutes and johns because the law mandates it.

He was not forced to be a prosecutor.

So he prosecuted johns because the law mandates it, but that law shouldn’t apply to him? How’s that work?

How’s that work?

Ask the president.

He was not forced to be a prosecutor.

So he prosecuted johns because the law mandates it, but that law shouldn’t apply to him? How’s that work?

I agree that Spitzer brought it on himself & I don’t think he should escape prosecution for his illegal hypocritical actions. I do think that perhaps he should get some sympathy, rather than everyone deciding that since he has done something wrong, he should be abandonded.

I’d like to see this kind of scrutiny and media Happy Hamster Dance over how John McCain fucked around and fucked up his first wife.

he should be abandonded.

I was never, you know, helping him out and stuff, so it’s hard to see how I’m abandoning him any more than I’m abandoning Britney Spears.

For the record, does anyone have any evidence that any liberal called for Vitter’s resignation? Or were we just greatly amused by it all?

We were laughing too hard to ask.

Like I said before, I don’t think he should resign. GOP’s threatening impeachment – I don’t know what the rules for that are in NYS, but it sounds like bullshit.

He should go. That’s what politicians should do when they get caught breaking the law.

Shut up, that’s why.

Ah, Ace, you young immigrunt. Somewhere in the ether, the late Ring Lardner is not amused.

Shut up, that’s why.

I love this new wingnut trend of just admitting you’re FOS.

I was never, you know, helping him out and stuff, so it’s hard to see how I’m abandoning him any more than I’m abandoning Britney Spears.

You’re abandoning Britney?

Animal.

So he prosecuted johns because the law mandates it, but that law shouldn’t apply to him? How’s that work?

It works like this: let him be charged for a crime, and made to stand trial with full assumption of innocence until proven guilty of that crime. At THAT point, and only then, should Spitzer resign–if found guilty of a crime. Not because some child molesting republican scumbags SAY he should resign on “moral” grounds. I’d never argue that he shouldn’t face investigation and possible indictment, just that he should refuse to resign until an investigation is completed, the facts (and ALL the facts, not just the politically convenient ones) are revealed and we see just how “bad” this alleged “crime” was.

Meanwhile, let’s get Vitter and Craig on trial too, and let them be proven innocent or guilty before being forced to resign. That’s how it works. Railroading one creep while letting two off scot free is not how it works.

all this hookers are evil and you must resign crap is just another reason for the world to laugh at Americans.
admit it, we are pathetic.

“I know what the liberals are asking: Why is [Spitzer] such a big deal, and Sen. David Vitter’s previous experience with call girls isn’t?

Shut up, that’s why.”

Your momma, sucker.

It works like this: let him be charged for a crime

No, it works like this: you admit the crime at a press conference and resign. His statement was pretty careful but you can’t walk away from that. Unless you’re David Vitter.

Spitzer wouldn’t be doing a favor for anyone but the Republican party if he tried to hang in there. He’s supposed to run NYS while fighting this? How do you think that would work out why would we want to find out? To spite the Aces of the world? If you’re going to be guided by anti-wingnut impulses at least try to figure out where they’ll take you. I don’t see any benefit from standing by Spitzer when we can just say beat it, we’ll do just fine without ya. He’s an authoritarian dick and David Patterson is a good dude so this is a trade up in my book. I’m sure Ralph Bruno hopes this drags on forever but there are a lot of Democrats in NYS smiling in private over this for lots of reasons.

To all the Goppers demanding apologies for Spitzer…

Fuck off.

Dems ACTUALLY hold their elected officials to certain standards and Spitzer is gone.

We’ve have seen Gopper ‘accountability’ for 30 years so any whining you do about Spitzer just confirms what kind of lying fucks you really are…

On a personal note, while I’ve never been a cheater and would be devastated if it happened to me, I did once have an office fling when I was a wild young singleton, with a hot co-worker who used to service me in my cubicle, with co-workers sitting less than 10′ away. Bad judgment? Sure, but it was also so ridiculously, smoking, heart-poundingly sexy-hot that it damn near killed me from excitement. The thrill of the forbidden is incredibly powerful, and doesn’t make someone unfit for office imo. It certainly helped my work considerably…or at least my attendance.

If Spitzer had never made that stupid announcement and just gone into GOP denial mode, he might have gotten through this. But he’s finished now, regardless.

If Spitzer had never made that stupid announcement and just gone into GOP denial mode, he might have gotten through this.

Which is the worst thing that could have happened here so I guess I do have to give him some credit for not taking us down that road.

Ace seems to be in a kind of euphoria. It’s like he’s serially ejaculating all over himself with a bunch of updates showing Spitzer at a Clinton campaign event (“OMFG THIS IS NO PHOTOSHOP!!!1”), crappy rushjob wingnut photoshoppings, and tenuously related youtube clips. Then there’s that seemingly-pointless burning skull thing, which I can only conclude is a self-portrait since this story broke.

I’m growing fond of the burning skull.

And it does represent Ace at the thought of the skill of a $5500 hooker.

And it does represent Ace at the thought of the skill of a $5500 hooker.

For 5 grand it aint the skill you are paying for.

guess for me the issue is that he put butts in jail before for doing exactly the same thing. Is it different that right now he’s not a prosecuter, but a governator, so he’s one step removed from total hypocrisy? I dunno.

My question would be – how long has he been doing it? Do you suppose a guy spends his whole career around this kind of criminal establishment, and only waits until he changes jobs to partake? If the guy was paying for hookers while he was DA – that would be the final blow.

And – I hate to say it – but they probably ought to start looking.

If the guy was paying for hookers while he was DA – that would be the final blow.

It would indeed, at least from hookers.

a bunch of updates showing Spitzer at a Clinton campaign event

OMG!! How unusual is it that a NY Governor would appear at a campaign event for a candidate who is a NY Senator?????

If the guy was paying for hookers while he was DA – that would be the final blow.

Certainly. The DA should at least get a discount.

Maybe that’s Ace’s attempt at Red Meat’s Floating Glow-Skull of Mystery.

I’m as pissed as anyone else about this, but I can’t defend the guy. I can’t twist the logic around here, a la the right, in defending the fact the guy broke the law. And it’s not even a stupid law. Human trafficking, anyone? Maybe the $9,000 an hour girl he was with wasn’t snatched out of some village in the Ukraine, but come on, he’s actively supporting a system that literally cannot exist without some pretty disgusting human rights violations. Oh, and killings, too.

Believe me, I had some high hopes about this guys as prez one day. But one look at his wife’s face during the newser, and with a little reflection on the impact on his family and politics in general, and I can’t give the guy anything. I’m out.

And it’s too fucking bad he’s not a Republican, and it fucking sucks that Vitter and every other lying sack of conservative shit gets a routine pass on this crap. So the fuck what? Spitzer fucked up, and while he’s not Bush, and he didn’t invade another country and lie and splash a huge bucket of blood on himself, he still fucked up.

He’s a fuck up. So he SHOULD resign.

My spooky crystal mystery skull challenges his floating skull of mystery. Winner gets a date with Carmine, bowling ball skull.

And lo, the Doughy Pantload weighs in.

If one of my married friends was repeatedly visiting hookers, I might say for the sake of social peace that it’s none of my business, but I would still think much less of him. And, if he became more and more brazen — and hence more and more humiliating for the man’s wife and family — the more likely it would become that I would feel compelled to say something.

He forgot to add, “I’m looking at you Derbyshire.”

I’m really annoyed at the “only sex scandals matter” standard, too. Bush flat out admits he ignored (i.e., “violated”) the FISA law in ordering wiretaps, and no one calls for his resignation. There’s significant evidence that the administration lied to Congress and the American people in the run-up to the Iraq war: yawnsville! Standard email practices in this White House clearly violate the Presidential Records Act–who cares? Bush tells former aides to just ignore congressional subpoenas and then directs his AG to just ignore Congressional contempt citation for said aides–wow, that’s just too complicated for our little brains to handle!

Hey, here’s an idea:
The House should include retroactive immunity for Spitzer to the FISA “let everyone off the hook because the president promised it was legal even though we have no idea what they were doing, what laws were violated, or who was hurt by it” revisions. I mean, gosh, that issue is just sooooooo complex and difficult that no one can possible explain it to us, so who would even notice if one more person is granted immunity from prosecution in ongoing investigations and court cases?

If we don’t give Spitzer retroactive immunity, the terrorists win.

If we don’t give Spitzer retroactive immunity, the terrorists win.

Funny.

Of course, if Spitzer doesn’t get immunity, we finally have someone with standing to bring suit…

I swear to God, I thoughtol’ Ace was making some sort of insulting reference to Greenwald’s sexuality with the term “coblogger.”

Then I realized he was maybe just needing a little hyphen-help there.

thoughtol ‘ – thought ol’

Still, I see it differently. Prostitution is one of the stupidest ‘crimes’ ever thought up by the totally useless cobags of organized religion. Prostitution gives some assholes, who can’t get laid on their own because of whatever reason, an outlet for their tensions. It also gives some women, who don’t like regular work, a way of making a living. Win/win.

You have got to be, without a doubt, one of the biggest assholes I have read today. I’m sure there are bigger assholes in the world than you, I just haven’t run into any lately.

It isn’t just religious folks against prostitution. It’s people who don’t like being treated like a Burger King sandwich over which some dipshit with too much B.O. and no social skills can “have it his way.” There’s a reason some people get left out of the gene pool when paying for it isn’t an option: they don’t belong there.

Ya know? I miss the “your an idiot” graphic; it was… poetic.

It isn’t just religious folks against prostitution. It’s people who don’t like being treated like a Burger King sandwich over which some dipshit with too much B.O. and no social skills can “have it his way.” There’s a reason some people get left out of the gene pool when paying for it isn’t an option: they don’t belong there.

I have no idea what you’re getting at here. Are you blaming whores for sexism? Or prostitution in general? Because believe me, it’s an effect, not a cause. Do you also blame injured patients for malpractice?

You’re apparently also, based on your talk about who should be breeding and who shouldn’t be, opposed to surrogacy, sperm banks, and any of the methods that allow infertile people to have children, as well as contraceptives. And you seem to believe that prostitutes will have a client’s baby.

Now, I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that probably none of that is true, it’s just a meanspirited reading of your words turned into something you may view as a personal attack by a stranger. Which, congratulations, is what you did to atheist.

It may surprise you to learn that some men, and many women, including me, have at times assessed the job situation rationally and concluded that all jobs involve selling your time and talent to someone, and that sex is a talent we may have to sell. Not all prostitutes are forced into it, and some people with legal jobs *are* forced into them, and something needs to be done for all of those people regardless of the legal status of their job.

Meanwhile, the illegal status of prostitution itself causes serious problems for an awful lot of people who are not, in fact, doing anything that harms society. As long as it is illegal, many women every year will be beaten by the men who control their marketable time and talent, will submit to rape in exchange for not being arrested or prosecuted or otherwise abused, will have the majority of the money they earn taken from them, will be forced into drug habits, and will have no way of getting out if they decide they want a new job. Some of them will also be killed, and no one’s going to try very hard at all to bring justice for them, since we’re already concentrating so much of our resources bringing justice *against* them.

Legalization will absolutely solve many of those problems, at which point those women (and again, men, but you seem primarily concerned about the women) will be treated *less* like slabs of meat and more like businesspersons with a marketable skill.

I don’t know if that will make non-prostitutes less likely to be treated as slabs of meat, too, but it probably can’t hurt, going on your theory which seems to be that the existence of women who are treated like slabs of meat means all women are treated that way.

I would say atheist is far from the biggest asshole I know. I would say, in fact, that he or she is more concerned about society’s most vulnerable people than a good many people I know, and far more aware of practical measures to help them. Which ranks way higher on the non-asshole scale than blaming the victims of sexism for sexism.

I’m sorry to see people defending the guy, after what I wrote. I can see circling the wagons around McGreevey, who, although quite the dipshit in his own right, was hiding his entire identity from the world to protect his family and his career. Those are lies that weren’t central to his career, but were central to his LIFE, and eventually they collapsed in on him. He was a pretty bad governor, but I’d have stood by him. (The same would be true of Craig, had he actually grown a pair and admitted what we all know he did.)

But what Spitzer did was both criminal and hypocritical. I don’t support prostitution laws, but neither would I frequent prostitutes even if I had the money and/or the inclination: it’s the law. Not just “the law” in the sense that the sodomy law was, either; there’s a legitimate public policy argument for it. He didn’t have to deny his entire being to avoid that temptation. He vigorously enforced the damn thing himself, when it was lesser men and women in the dock.

No, I’ve got no sympathy for him whatsoever. He was supposed to be, above all, a scrupulously honest and ethical man. We admired him. You cannot come down from that and still have a part to play in public life.

He has shamed his party and his state, and he needs to disappear for a few years. I’ll welcome him back when the wounds have healed and he wants to be chancellor of a law school or something. But he needs to resign, NOW, and everyone suggesting that he not do so is seriously misguided.

And in political terms: we’ve got a terrific Lt. Gov. who would immediately erase all memory of this scandal if he assumed control, leaving the hapless GOP to try and put Jeanine Pirro or someone up as sacrificial lamb in three years. Is Spitzer worth losing that?

If atheist is “one of the biggest assholes I have read today”, Dana needs to get out more.

Further up the thread, JohnnyRingo believes that prostitution is linked ineluctably to people-trafficking, and is “a system that literally cannot exist without some pretty disgusting human rights violations”.
Now my impression is that countries that decriminalise prostitution (e.g. New Zealand) find it a lot easier to fight people-trafficking and impose workplace standards.

“Shut up, that’s why.”

Repeated just because it states their level of discourse SOOO perfectly and, for that reason, it’s so funny. They should have this message spelled out on the side of derrigibles and trailing from banners behind bi-planes.

Forget the machinery — Ace and his fellow cobaggers, er cobloggers, should have their favorite rhetorical device tattooed across their abdomens, so they can just lift their shirts whenever they need a “quality comeback”. Given the size of Ace’s abdomen, the inker will be able to use a very elaborate, even multi-colored, font and still have the words remain readable from across the room.

As for Spitzer’s “poor wife”… unlike Mrs. Vitter, I don’t remember Mrs. Spitzer bragging on camera about “Bobbiting” her spouse if she ever caught him using the little head outside of their church&state-sanctioned relationship. Personally, as a married lady myself, I’d love to see one of the Wronged Partners stand up and say on camera, “I don’t give a shite what he was spending his ‘fun money’ on, and if I did, it would still be none of you vultures’ damned business. Go spend some time finding out why the NSA was wiretapping Democratic politicians “on spec”, and maybe then I’ll let you claim to be journalists, you lazy panty-sniffers. Because Elliot could have boffed every sex worker in the continental United States, and still have screwed a lot fewer Americans than Dubya Bush and his fellow criminals.”

I know that long lists of republicans that have had sex with people they should not have are supposed to make me laugh, and part of me does, but mostly I cry.

Hmmmph. Anne Laurie does not care about us.

I have been promising to do a review of Solomon’s wives , but there are over five hundred pages before you get to the chamber maids .

Anyone who disagrees with me is a hypocrite. Except myself, I’m allowed to disagree with myself because “shut up.”

Makes sense.

It may surprise you to learn that some men, and many women, including me, have at times assessed the job situation rationally and concluded that all jobs involve selling your time and talent to someone, and that sex is a talent we may have to sell. Not all prostitutes are forced into it, and some people with legal jobs *are* forced into them, and something needs to be done for all of those people regardless of the legal status of their job.

Meanwhile, the illegal status of prostitution itself causes serious problems for an awful lot of people who are not, in fact, doing anything that harms society… Legalization will absolutely solve many of those problems, at which point those women (and again, men, but you seem primarily concerned about the women) will be treated *less* like slabs of meat and more like businesspersons with a marketable skill.

I don’t know if that will make non-prostitutes less likely to be treated as slabs of meat, too, but it probably can’t hurt, going on your theory which seems to be that the existence of women who are treated like slabs of meat means all women are treated that way.

Brava, D. Sidhe!

The “think of Teh Women” anti-legalization folk parallel the Total Temperance People. There are a lot of alcoholics in my family tree, and they have done some very bad, reprehensible, un-life-affirming, even highly illegal stuff while chemically altered. As a result, I choose not to drink alcohol. This doesn’t mean I think everyone should choose not to drink alcohol, or that people with alcohol-abusive family histories should be forced to abstain, or that alcohol consumption should be made illegal to protect Teh Children and other innocents from drunk drivers & mean-drunk parents. Because even though it’s possible to live a long & fulfilling life without beverage alcohol, “drinking” is something that a great many adults enjoy, and it’s been experientally demonstrated that criminalizing alcohol consumption doesn’t work. In fact, Prohibition very clearly demonstrated that making alcohol illegal gave organized crime a new and permanent niche in American society without much reducing the number of American alcoholics.

It’s also very obvious that criminalizing sex work only punishes the sex workers (and occasionally their customers). You can live a long & fulfilling life with having sex with another human, but again, most people prefer not to do so. And some of those people prefer to rent their partners on a per-job basis. I’ve been fortunate never to have to consider trading my sexual talents for money, but I’ve certainly had jobs (white-collar, indoor, “clean” jobs) where my bosses considered me the human equivalent of a Burger King sandwich. Some of these bosses, I’m fairly certain, would cheerfully spend a lot more than they paid me to “access” a sex-for-hire worker from a really High-Status organization like the Emperors’ Club… because, as my granny would say, “People will pay more for their pleasures than they will for their obligations.”

Frankly, things haven’t really changed that much since George Bernard Shaw wrote “Mrs. Warren’s Profession.” And it’s kind of sad we’re still hearing the same tired arguments more than a century later.

(P.S. to SWIH: Of *course* I care, sweeties, but I don’t think Mr. Spitzer would have bothered to fly in any ‘special assistants’ when your local pulchritude level is so high…)

Now my impression is that countries that decriminalise prostitution (e.g. New Zealand) find it a lot easier to fight people-trafficking and impose workplace standards. Can’t agree more, although, as long as the law is changed in the prostitutes favour, rather than the john’s favour.

As for the wife ‘standing by’ her husband, that always shocked me. As my own wife pointed out last night, if that had been me, I would be conducting a press conference from an intensive care ward of the nearest hospital, after she finished with me.

billy pilgrim said: [March 11, 2008 at 16:19]

regardless of Ace’s mindless hypocrisy, can I say that I am weary, so weary of seeing the painful, beaten, humiliated faces of the wives of these guys standing beside them at their press conferences?

Just once, I’d like to see a guy standing their alone, with the wife having a press conference from her front door saying she’s changed the locks and thrown his shit on the front lawn.

Me too. Laws against prostitution are stupid, as so well pointed out by Anne Laurie and D. Sidhe and OTB above … but a prosecutor and a governor is supposed to enforce the law as it is, and if it should be changed, to work to change it — not to take the attitude that it shouldn’t apply to him. And the reality is that Spitzer’s wife and family are now humiliated and embarrassed, and so are the Democrats — which is why he should resign and get the hell out of the way before his stupidity has even worse effects on the election than it has already.

Thanks for explaining what I was trying to say much better, D. Sidhe, Smut Clyde & Anne Laurie