Goddammit
Sigh:
Your mind: it’s just another piece of hardware. Make sure you download the latest patch and upgrade to the newest operating system.
That, in so many words, is the fate of humankind described by David Pescovitz, co-editor of the BoingBoing.net blog and research director with the Institute for the Future.
We’ve long used caffeine and various other drugs to alter our states of mind. But those are “really blunt instruments” compared with the future technology that advances in neuroscience will bring, Pescovitz said Tuesday as he moderated a panel discussion on the “future of mind hacks” at the O’Reilly ETech conference on emerging technology in San Diego.
“In the near future, these technologies will be available to us to help us take control of our own minds, to alter our own minds – to bring a DIY hacker mentality to your own head,” Pescovitz said.
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
And yes, I realize that a lot of this technology can be used for good, such as helping people with disabilities live easier lives. What annoys me is the narcissistic glibertarian fantasy of turning yourself into a super-kewl cyborg who gets all the hot robobabes while giving a finger to both the environment and the sad fleshbags that you’ve left behind on planet Earth.
Though come to think of it, if every glibertarian like the Ole Perfesser decided to download their brain into a robot body and blast off into space, I don’t think I’d complain all that much…
Gavin adds: There ought to be a word for people who are stuck in the late ’90s, like eHippies or iHippies, or something else that’s redolent of NetBuzz and CyberSpace but also suggestive of a fortyish Rod McKuen farting in an Esalen hot tub.
We already have this. It’s called LSD.
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
Yes. Duh.
I don’t see it that way. I like ‘mind hack’ kind of stuff because it allows you to get a greater insight to the stuff that is already going on in your brain (like figuring out how to see the black-and-white-only portions of your vision). The cyborg stuff is all bullshit — the digging deeper into the mind stuff isn’t.
Unfortunately, when you start using terms like ‘patch’ and ‘operating system’, you make yourself sound like a twit.
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
d00d, think of how many hit points you’d have.
I don’t know about becomming a full blown cyborg (where the line is drawn differs from person to person). But one thing I would love is to have embedded lasers surgically installed in my eyes. Kinda like laser eye surgery, but the other way around. Lasers rule.
Can we use the new technology to turn on conservatives’ logic circuits?
(Assuming such things exist, I mean. I am, if nothing else, always the optimist.)
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
From a certain point of view, we are, all of us, already doing exactly that.
Hey Tyler! Doesn’t Cindy McCain have that already? Every time I see her on stage I swear her eyes aren’t, you know, actual eyes.
“Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?”
Uh, no. On the other hand you and I will apparently have the place to our selves after everyone else takes off for the far fringes of the universe. Speaking of which, can I has rapture – NOW? I cannot think of anything which would spruce up the neighborhood quite so much. Also, why is everyone who writes serious predictions about “the future” such an unrealistic dweeb?
Lasers do rule. I am in complete agreement.
You’re right Brad, can you imagine what it would be like if we were all attached to some kind of giant computer network and shared our thoughts almost instantaneously with others?
The only thing missing these days is the data port to the cerebral cortex.
“We’ve long used caffeine and various other drugs to alter our states of mind. But those are “really blunt instruments” compared with the future technology that advances in neuroscience will bring, Pescovitz said Tuesday as he moderated a panel discussion on the “future of mind hacks” at the O’Reilly ETech conference on emerging technology in San Diego.”
In teh future, we will all have teh really good drugz. But you will have to buy them from big companies, not small farmers.
Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation:
http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainBriefings_transcranialMagneticStimulation
A potentially useful therapy tool and who knows what else.
As a dutiful PBS spouse, I need to plug the following:
Many stations are running CHANGE YOUR BRAIN, CHANGE YOUR LIFE with Dr. Daniel Amen during this pledge week. It’s pretty damn interesting. Hubby is actually having dinner with Dr. Amen about an hour from now. Check your local PBS affiliate for times.
[yes, I know many of you are not in the US]
From that TMS link…
without causing any major side effects.
… for suitable values of ‘major’.
Think of TMS as a whack on the side of the head, though without the whack.
The truth is, we can use this technology to force goopers to upgrade their jalopy brains into Rolls Royce brains. Instead of being evil little sputum-mounds, we can turn them into slightly less wastes of good air.
Surely this is a good thing!
While we’re at it, can we give K-Lo a body that doesn’t warp concrete when she passes? KTHXBAI.
Bad news, then:
Hey Tyler! Doesn’t Cindy McCain have that already? Every time I see her on stage I swear her eyes aren’t, you know, actual eyes.
The fact is, Cindy McCain is a femmebot.
Think of TMS as a whack on the side of the head, though without the whack.
Have you read about the induced religious feeling?
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2002/04/51699
Terrible article but neat stuff.
While we’re at it, can we give K-Lo a body that doesn’t warp concrete when she passes? KTHXBAI.
The fact is, Ms. K-Lo’s body is fine. The fact is, her gravitational lens characteristics could be very useful in the field of astronomy.
Heartland.
m I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
No. Some of us are holding out for becoming entities of pure energy.
RB, I’ve been seeing mention of that here and there over the years.
There’s just a huge lot of weird shit going on in the neurosciences these days. My mind has been boggled and reboggled. And we’re like, this close to a real scientific theory of consciousness. Computational psychology. Connectionism. I just love it.
I’m just sayin.
Have you read about the induced religious feeling?
[Quickly checks]
Thought so… that’s all about Persinger’s work. Trouble is, no-one has replicated Persinger’s experiments. He only seems to publish them in the non-peer-review journal Perceptual and Motor Skills, which more of an academic vanity press.
.
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
No, I’m with you. And generally speaking, I’m never too excited about any attempt to radically prolong the human lifespan. Like I’ve always said, who the hell wants to use a walker for 300 years?
“Like I’ve always said, who the hell wants to use a walker for 300 years?”
What if it’s a super-cool robo-walker….with lasers?
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
Depends. Will I be able to transform into, say, a pick-up truck or a dinosaur? If I can get a dinosaur and a pick-up truck, well, then plug me in, son.
In teh future, we will all have teh really good drugz. But you will have to buy them from big companies, not small farmers.
Nah. You’ll dial up a machine. None of these guys have read Phillip K. Dick, I guess. That shit never works out well. And isn’t what you describe how things are now? I mean, I can’t get my drugs from the Wal-Mart pharmacy, but I guarantee you weed knock’s Depakote’s dick right in the dirt.
DIY Brain Hacking?
Are you fucking serious?
That’s, well, INSANE.
Dood, I fuck around with my Red Hat server and it won’t boot.
Think about the consequences of a serious registry error or kernel mod in your brain. I think, no, I’m pretty sure, you’d be dead. Or worse.
This is beyond stupid. And you know they’ll fuck around with OTHER people’s brains, not their own.
Just shut up…
mikey
“In the near future, these technologies will be available to us to help us take control of our own minds, to alter our own minds – to bring a DIY hacker mentality to your own head,” Pescovitz said.
Be fair. The guy has been invited along as lead speaker for a conference on “emerging technologies” for
bullshit artistsentrepreneurs. His job is to fluff the venture capitalists into a state of sufficient excitement that they’re more worried about missing the wave than about wasting their money. He’s not going to stand up there and say “In the near future, these technologies are a load of pants.”Think about the consequences of a serious registry error or kernel mod in your brain. I think, no, I’m pretty sure, you’d be dead. Or worse.
The fact is, you need to embrace your Borg future. The Heartland will remain behind, consuming ribs and corn.
Unfortunately, when you start using terms like ‘patch’ and ‘operating system’, you make yourself sound like a twit.
Yup. As a programmer who’s done a fair chunk of AI research I find this kind of crap cringeworthy. It’s especially bad when you consider the quality of OS software these days. No fucking way would I let software in my head.
This is just more cybercheese. I thought that shit was like, so over after the 1993 outbreak, but it seems to have found a little endemic niche.
I don’t want a mind hack, i want a colon hack, a small interdimensional portal installed at the end of my alimentary system, so I never have to poo again.
I don’t want to be an immortal robot, but if I could have a long prehensile tail I’d totally go for it. It would be so handy for carrying extra bags of groceries, swinging me from place to place, scratching my ears when my hands were occupied, swatting my enemies. Also cat’s ears that I could flatten and flick to indicate irritation, and semi-rotate to listen to interesting noises.
Or is this off-topic? In which case, back to the transhumanist debates.
😉
A simple on/off liver bypass would be nice, too, so the alcohol will stay in my bloodstream for longer, after I go to the trouble of putting it there.
Can we start calling Reynolds “Bender“? Because that would be fun.
Is there a prize for “Most expensive and round-about way of using an MRI machine and a human’s visual cortex to do the job of a Box Brownie camera”?
Memo to Jon H.
At some point in your life, your going to find that a nice, easy, early morning crap is the best part of your day.
You might even want to bring people upstairs to show it to them and regale them with the details of how well it went.
So don’t be so ready to give up on poo satisfaction. On a good day, it may be the best you have left to bring…
mikey
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
You won’t ever get old, and you won’t have to die.
SamFromUtah said,
March 6, 2008 at 3:57
Unfortunately, when you start using terms like ‘patch’ and ‘operating system’, you make yourself sound like a twit.
Yup. As a programmer who’s done a fair chunk of AI research I find this kind of crap cringeworthy. It’s especially bad when you consider the quality of OS software these days. No fucking way would I let software in my head.
This is just more cybercheese. I thought that shit was like, so over after the 1993 outbreak, but it seems to have found a little endemic niche.
Oh come on now! Just give everyone something really fine, like Windohs ME, and we’ll all be swimming in space.
And you won’t have to deal with dia-bee-tus.
At some point in your life, your going to find that a nice, easy, early morning crap is the best part of your day.
That’s assuming that you wake up in time to enjoy it.
I’m still reading Musicophilia fabulously slowly and there’s some seemingly successful brain stimulation going on in an episode or two. I don’t know if people are trying that the way electroshock therapy was tried…
I’m still reading Musicophilia fabulously slowly
Teh City Library says:
Bastards.
Isaac Asimov’s Berserk Buzzard Macaroni
Ingredients:
1 buzzard
4 pounds ageless leek
1 pinch nonconformist water, kindheartedly barbecued
5 teaspoons monstrous turkey liver, chilled
1 can
5 bunches maple syrup
Pre-heat your oven to 569 Celsius. Pick over the ingredients hamfistedly and discard excess latex. Separate buzzard mandible from nose. Shred nose. Mash the leek with the water over low heat in a wok. Stuff the resulting mixture into the buzzard. Scramble the turkey, soy sauce, and the maple syrup plaintively. Dab the latter combination on to the former. Bake for 146 minutes. Serves 6.
Ah yes… the transhumanists. People who want to benevolently find the “ultimate answers” to everything without the biological “inconveniences” such as eating, sleeping, fucking and shitting… and yet, I bet a gazillion dollars that the first thing these guys will do once they are hooked into the ultimate internet-consciousness is to get jiggy with big-titted 3D rendered hentai for all of eternity.
I have seen the fnords.
I was about to congratulate today’s fake Gary for his convincing embodiment of the thread’s topic, but then Smut Clyde made me giggle immoderately and I forgot what I was going to say.
Yes, well.
1 pinch nonconformist water, kindheartedly barbecued
I like this way more than I should.
After reading Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition I was convinced that immortality was not for me, if for no other reason than the people who are seriously concerned with attaining immortality all seem to be really creepy weird.
Who wants to live forever with people like that?
Smiling Mortician,
Would you please stop being so gol-durned agreeable? Frankly, I’m pissed.
Non-conformist water, kindhearted barbeque. Stop it! Just stop it.
And another thing:
Just what IS the noble cause?
Your immoderate giggle is awaiting moderation.
We cannot have shrillness.
Well, the thing is, Brad, and Mikey: You and I haven’t been as bitterly disappointed with our fleshbags (& our fellow fleshbags) as the Glibertarians have been with theirs. Given that my personal fleshbag currently resembles K-Lo a lot more than J-Lo, and that many of my parts are already out of warranty, this makes me sad for the Glennbot cybercheerleaders. Because so many of them are still young & strong & smart enough that I believe they are capable of having a LOT more fleshbag fun than they’re getting right now.
But, yeah, the real problem with Descartes’
heresytheory is that it encourages too many people with actual real-world power to waste not only their lives, but our mutual substance, on a fantasy of Pure Reason that’s always some fifteen years in the future.Richard Corey has the right to blow his brains out because he’s not satisfied with the range of choices those brains are offering him, but I wish he wouldn’t insist on spoiling the carpet and leaving a nasty mess for others to clean up when he does so.
Your immoderate giggle is awaiting moderation.
We cannot have shrillness.
Just who made up THAT motherfucking rule, Motherfucker?
Oh, come on—did none of you click on the “narcissisitic glibertarian fantasy” link in the OP? Here’s a taste of what you’re missing:
ACE II: (mounting a plinth) Citizens! We are juiced today by the hyperpresence of the greatest robot lawgiver in our nation-state! Throw your citizenguns in the air like you just don’t care for Perfesser Glenn Harlan Reynolds!
How will this differ from the “current mind wanks” we get from M. BoingBoing and his pals?
For those of you waiting for Musicophillia, might I suggest This is Your Brain on Music, by Daniel Levetin?
I read it on the beach last summer, thereby gaining 10,000 more geek points than anyone who wants to be an immortal super stud robot.
“This is Your Brain on Music, by Daniel Levetin”
I second that emotion.
Oliver Sacks? Shitty neurologist. Terrific medical writer.
In “Gulliver’s Travels”, Gulliver meets a group of immortals called struldbrugs. He is excited because he believes they will be reservoirs of centuries of knowledge and will enlighten him. However, he finds out that although they are immortal, they still age physically and are affected by the host of problems that plague the elderly (like deafness and senility). Dying sometimes isn’t that bad of a thing in my opinion.
Dying sometimes isn’t that bad of a thing in my opinion.
Oh thank you. That means I haz a güd job.
This is Your Brain on Music
Haydn and Mozart were the mind hacks of the Liberal Arts.
Dying sometimes isn’t that bad of a thing in my opinion.
Try not to make a habit of it.
Did I mention just how much life sucks?
‘Cause if you missed that part, pay attention.
It really sucks…
mikey
Eh. The same kind of starry-eyed bullshit futurism was in play with regards to the internet (“The Guy I Almost Was”, anyone?); you can see some folks who were around back then reminisce about Mondo 2000 over at Coilhouse and get an idea of how far off they were. The internet turned out (so far) to be at once way stranger and way more mundane than they had envisioned. No doubt anything that falls out of upcoming advances in biotech and neuroscience will be the same way.
I suppose I’m taking this all far too seriously, but it is srs bsns.
don’t be so ready to give up on poo satisfaction. On a good day, it may be the best you have left to bring
mikey, you couldn’t have put it better. It was exactly what I thought when I read that comment.
Sometimes it’s my only accomplishment of the day.
And some of us are holding out for becoming entities of pure lethargy.
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
No, but if this new technology gives me the power to pick up Big Sur, move it to where I am, and leave Esalen in place, I’ll take it.
Just give me super strength and laser eyes, and I’ll be happy. And rocket boots. Okay, strength, eyes, and boots. That’s it. Oh, and freeze breath.
Can I have new knees?
Seriously, nobody for bionic arms?
As soon as you’re hooked up to a version of this contraption that you can ‘live’ with, someone will come along with version +.1 and the company will cut off your support unless you upgrade, so you’re at the whim of a bunch of geeks thinking up gimmicks that are substantial enough to let the company justify throwing out a new version that you don’t want and don’t need but can’t turn down even though you think it sucks (Can you tell I work every day with AutoCAD?).
I would rather just live my mundane body-bag life and take my chances on finding out what death brings.
OT: have you guys just seen Rob Wriggle with that huge sammich on the Daily Show? I’m sure it should be an instant Sadly,No! favourite.
That reminds me, I didn’t get a chance to poo yet today.
Scuze me. Can I borrow that paper? I might be awhile.
gbear. You bring up a good point. The power glove also brings up another.
The fact is, liberals are fags.
Must be the real gary. He likes to dump that turd after my posts.
Matt T. said,
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
Depends.
Exactly, Matt T. In addition to not wanting to use a walker for 300 years, I am also disinclined to being incontinent for that span.
Must be the real gary. He likes to dump that turd after my posts.
I’m not sure why people insist on taking this obviously fake Ruppert seriously. No real conservative troll would have the self-awareness to poke fun at himself, as in beginning each post with a self-mocking catchphrase.
fortunately someone way smarter than me wrote a book debunking glibertarian fantasy world:
http://www.future-hype.com/
I recommend every libertarian read this, and then cry themselves to sleep!
Tanith Lee covered immortality in one of her books (Tales From the Flat Earth maybe?). Not all it was cracked up to be. And it had made the Gods who had it, well, kind of dull.
I like the idea of some of the transhumanism…but as someone pointed out, you just know that the dangerous bits will be tried out on the masses without their consent; the potentially immortal won’t take any risks on their own fleshbags. Bruce Sterling talked about how risk averse people became when they started living excessively long lives in Holy Fire.
Oh, heck. “Gary” posts two (2) amusing and relevant comments…and now reverts to type. Shame. It’s like Charly. He’s retarded…he thrives!…he goes back to being retarded.
Well, we’ll always have Paris.
The fact is, heartland, media bias, liberal haters, usa traitors to freedom, anti-God claptrap, hard work classwar, Bush is awesome and you are gonna lose.
Gary? What happened? You were doing so well, you almost amused us. Burn out already?
PeeJ, it was Fake Gary that so captivated your heart.
I’m sorry, it happens. For some reason, Gary has many admirers, and you know imitation is the best form of flattery.
immortal robots, I’m guessing, don’t develop tumours, toothaches or cellulite.
Think of hte savings.
also, no dyslexia.
Narcissistic, you bet! There was a thing in Skeptic magazine a while back, about Ray Kurzweil and his book on living forever. It seems Dr. Ray takes a couple of hundred nutritional supplements every day, in order to live long enough to enjoy the Singularity. He says you should, too!
Skeptic’s take: you shouldn’t.
Funny how the Big S is going to come along just in time to save these assholes. Too bad it didn’t come earlier, when Feynman and Sagan were still alive. I’d much rather have spent libternity with those guys.
But you know what happens when immortal robots haz da buttseks? And they gets pluved too hard?
Fick mich, du miserabler hurensohn…
Don”t get no jizm on that sofa sofa…
They would, however Lesley, develop corrosion, dents, metal fatigue, eroded joints, pixel burn-in, sudden discharge, dirty contacts, toxic emissions, viruses, worms, and would be totally incapacitated by EMP or a really energetic thunderstorm.
Actually, I don’t see how this would be any different than being a meatwad.
I’m waiting for an Orgasmatron.
…I am sooo hoping this discussion moves into Highlander territory.
They would, however Lesley, develop corrosion, dents, metal fatigue, eroded joints, pixel burn-in, sudden discharge, dirty contacts, toxic emissions, viruses, worms, and would be totally incapacitated by EMP or a really energetic thunderstorm.
there’s going to be a helluva business for mechanics.
Aren’t we all, Hysterical, aren’t we all.
I’m waiting for an Orgasmatron.
I hope you’re not living in Texas.
Is there something wrong with farting in an Esalen hot tub? I think that sounds pretty darn blissful.
I’m looking forward to magnets becoming a deadly weapon. “Look out! He’s taken Bless This Mess off the fridge!”
Yeah, and big chainsaw hands! Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!
I’m waiting for an Orgasmatron.
*sends HW portable showerhead*
They would, however Lesley, develop corrosion, dents, metal fatigue, eroded joints, pixel burn-in, sudden discharge, dirty contacts, toxic emissions, viruses, worms, and would be totally incapacitated by EMP or a really energetic thunderstorm.
Still, this would beat feeling one’s fleshbaggery – emphasis on baggery – so acutely one feels ashamed to be naked in the company of others in lit rooms. Something tells me a rusty toxic emitting robot doesn’t have this problem.
And some of us are holding out for becoming entities of pure lethargy.
Snorhagen, I am sooooo stealing that line!
Funny how FutureHype takes an argument Kurzweil doesn’t make, and says that’s why he’s wrong.
I know I don’t want software in my head – because I know these idiots can’t programs squat.
But then again, look at the successes in neuro-whatever controllers. We have artificial hands and arms that can react to thought or nerve impulses and move about like the limbs they’re replacing. There’s a wireless game controller to be retail this fall that you wear like a hat. And it’s not based upon how you move your head…
That’s something to look forward to. Even if we have to listen to libertarian fetishists who keep saying we’ll live the life of luxury without ever thinking what happens when you stop paying guys to make cars but still charge those guys to buy them…
Humans are ripped off. We really only have a few good years physically and most of those we take completely for granted. It’s also pissy that as you age you continue to feel youthful in spirit. When my mom was on her deathbed wracked with cancer and shrivelled to a fraction of her former self she told me felt all of 18 on the inside. Life is cruel, CRUEL.
TIMOTHY LEARY LIVES!
See the fnords! Yog-Sothoth is in the pentagon!
And some of us are holding out for becoming entities of pure lethargy.
Why wait?
by the time the average joe gets to be an entity of pure lethary they’re in some deplorable nursing home being abused by underpaid angry orderlies. plus the joints ache.
robotics is the way to go.
Lesley, that’s better than these Libertarian loons, who apparently feel ancient and used-up inside, while their bodies are still in pretty good shape.
In fact, wingnuts in general seem to all seem to be cranky old men inside. McCain is their gestalt, not just their candidate.
OK, people. Your antitranshumanism is duly noted. Now…
Describe your ideal future of humanity.
oops.
That would make more sense if Lesley hadn’t thrown another comment in there before mine.
Yes, it’s true. I live in a dildo-free zone.
I’m starting to experience that. It’s true that creeping decrepitude sucks, but far better to have an aging body and a youthful spirit than the other way around.
speaking of McCain, Warren Ellis sent this to his email list today
mccain has cheerfulness to his muppetry though, don’t you think? he may be a loon, but kind of a happy go lucky loon on the surface.
Criss sed:
Well, yeah. I’ve been doing it for 30+ years and have seen far too many imbeciles churning out code. So your point is well taken. Discussions of whether I’m included in the set of all imbeciles can be taken, as they say, off line.
Um, neural networks? Problem there is, nobody really knows precisely how, why they work. I could never ever sell a neural net solution to a customer because there’s no effin way to guarantee the behavior.
Computer Operating Systems are among the most complex creations in mankind’s history. NO ONE knows in a gestalt sort of way, exactly how they work. I could give you my lecture from 20 years ago why the SDI thing was a BAD BAD BAD idea. Neural networks are worse, from a predictability POV.
When you talk about neural nets, and AI and mind hacking, you’re opening Pandoras box. Trust me on this. Please.
Come to think of it, that’s pretty much how I feel about most of the more, um, traditional forms of immortality, too….
“ Gavin adds: There ought to be a word for people who are stuck in the late ’90s, like eHippies or iHippies, or something else that’s redolent of NetBuzz and CyberSpace…”
How about “Anacles”? Like Oracles, Anacles can see the future, but sadly, it looks very much like their own colon.
Um, neural networks? Problem there is, nobody really knows precisely how, why they work.
This’ll be the case for any kind of brain-simulating software. If someone ever manages to imprint a personality onto it I can’t see how it’d wind up as what they wanted to preserve.
I want chainsaw hands too, but why only 5 feet tall?
I would hate to immortal.
The bad hair cuts, the intrusive flashbacks, people trying to cut off your head every week. .. Not to mention Queen booming in your head constantly.
perhaps if one could have perfect health one might be inspired to live longer. The world – the human world – is very tiring the longer one lives in it. I’m hoping for a second wind when I retire and can do more of the things I want to do. Like work at elephant sanctuaries. I find when I’m around elephants I’m less pessimistic and weary. Humans wear me out.
I don’t want to be a robot, my knees are fine and I’m thinking about the bionic arm. (Could I just get a bionic middle finger with fluorescent knuckles?)
What I really want is a little head on my shoulder that tells me secrets and knows the future.
Mind you, that’s after the monkey butlers
What I really want is a little head on my shoulder that tells me secrets and knows the future.
The wish is granted. Long live Jambi.
Dang, you’re busy. Who’s started drinking?
What I really want is a little head on my shoulder that tells me secrets and knows the future.
The Great Gazoo, I hear, is out of work.
What I really want is a little head on my shoulder that tells me secrets and knows the future.
You mean like Bush does?
knowing the future would be way too stressful. you’d end up maxing out on antidepressants and muscle relaxants.
All this “upload your consciousness into a machine” crap reminds me of the time when we did a “team building” exercise at a former job of mine. The facilitator asked us all “if you could be an animal, what animal would it be”. We were supposed to jot our choice on a 3 X 5 card, and explain why we chose the one we did. Being scientists, there was much eye-rolling, but we all played along, sort of. The first couple folks said they’d be a bear or an eagle or something, and made up some smarmy reasons why. My turn came, and I had written down that I’d be a human being. The facilitator was confused, and tried to tell me that I had to choose an animal, to which I replied yes, I did. My colleagues were amused, and decided my choice of animal indicated that I was a literalist and a wise-ass.
actually future hype debunks most of kurtzweils arguments and tacks on some arguments he was blissfully ignoring. But have fun when your Apple iBrain 3000 overheats and you see the big bomb in your Apple iVision.
I’m waiting for an Orgasmatron.
HW is easy to please.
For good (entertaining and realistic) writing on the theme of AI and the transfer of human consciousness into other bodies, see Rudy Rucker.
Uh, did you know that David Pescovitz was one of the founders at boingboing?
And Michelle Malkin Michelle Malkin HATES boingboing!
Therefore, David Pescovitz is cool as shit.
And I know Pesco’s read Philip K Dick cuz he’s my pal and I’m a Total Dick-Head.
Besides:
“Some employers use random drug tests to make sure workers aren’t hooked on illegal narcotics – what if companies start testing employees to make sure they’re on drugs, Pescovitz asked.”
The internet turned out (so far) to be at once way stranger and way more mundane than they had envisioned. No doubt anything that falls out of upcoming advances in biotech and neuroscience will be the same way.
That reminds me of an interview with David Brin I heard on NPR while driving to work about a decade ago.
He was riffing on new! improved! biotech in a somewhat snarky way, saying something along the lines of “well, once we’ve got artificial eyes that can replace defective nearsighted natural ones, then we’ll have people wanting eyes that can can outperform their own perfectly fine natural eyes, and then it’s only a matter of time before someone demands that they get HBO on them.”
Right about then my windshield got sprayed with coffee.
As far as hacking my own brain, I found that returning to college in my late 30s has worked fairly well in terms of changing how my mind works. More expensive than LSD, but at least I can sleep sometimes.
what if companies start testing employees to make sure they’re on drugs, Pescovitz asked.
I can’t see much difference between these two ways that an employer might demand ownership and control of your bloodstream. Two aspects of the pharmaceutical panopticon. Was that Pescovitz’s point?
That which isn’t forbidden is mandatory, SC? Yeah, I’ve had a few bosses like that.
Oh, and back to that mundane freakiness of biotech- after a lifetime of wearing increasingly thick glasses, I had my eyes modified to achieve perfect vision a few years ago. With lasers! Paid in part with a coupon clipped from the newspaper…
I wouldn’t be too surprised if by the time I need new glasses again, I’ll be able to have a new pair of eyes grown in a vat. From a vending machine in front of the 7/11.
They will, of course, have vertical slit pupils and nictating membranes like a cat or a snake. And lasers.
I’ll tell ya, if I could choose the person to program my new self it would be the person who created this awesome graph.
http://blog.3bulls.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/rr5.png
These futurist/immortality seeking guys always forget one thing: if everyone’s immortal then it’s going to get very, very crowded here on the ol’ planet. Not to mention where the energy supply for all this grand living forever is going to come from since we’ve about used up the supply of compressed dead dinosaurs.
Hell, I was just hoping for a flying car by now. Accessorized with lasers of course.
a world populated with immortal wingnutty narcissists. kill me now!
imagine ann althouse replicated millions of times and living foreverrrrrr. animals would commit suicide.
Brain models running inside supercomputers don’t take a lot of space. Also, space.
Umm, Sun?
And guys, Glenn Raynolds doesn’t have monopoly on the idea.
I’m hoping for a second wind when I retire and can do more of the things I want to do. Like work at elephant sanctuaries. I find when I’m around elephants I’m less pessimistic and weary.
Lesley, would it make you happier if you believed you could be reincarnated as an elephant? I choose to believe in reincarnation, and to assume that some of my aberrant childhood memories indicate that I have lived other lives as a lioness. I am therefore striving to live the best human life I can manage, in hopes that my next incarnation will once again be among the Felidea. “Rationally” this is just crazy talk, but it’s no crazier than the stuff I learned during twelve years of parochial school, and a lot less crazy than quite a few other *respectable* religious theories. And probably less crazy than assuming that my consciousness will be downloadable into a machine within my predicted actuarial lifespan…
Dan Someone said:
OK, people. Your antitranshumanism is duly noted. Now…
Describe your ideal future of humanity.
Easy. Non-existence. Everything else will be much better once we’re gone.
well… you kids are clearly having a good time with this one, so it’s probably a real dumb idea to get into it, but this stuff ain’t all bad.
for the past couple years i’ve been involved in a documentary about these very topics: the singularity, trans-humanism, general AI etc. and i would be remiss if i didn’t correct at least one serous misconception.
i’ve met a lot of the people working (or just plain pontificating) on the topic and while it is true that most of them are super-hard-core-pudgy-glasses-wearing-short-pants-sporting-hyper-nerds it would be unfair to characterize them all as wingnuts or libertarians.
given their devotion to science most of them actually self-identify (or subtly reveal) themselves as liberals. seriously – just because glenn reynolds likes an idea doesn’t mean he and his idiot bretheren own it. he likes nikon digital SLRs too (and taking seriously crappy photos with them) and any decent photog will tell you that they’re pretty sweet.
also, y’all are pushing this pretty far into black and white style discussion. this is a shame since i think this is normally the wingnut milieu.
this is not about shitting versus not-shitting, real bacon versus digital, sex with hookers versus on-demand porn. we already exist in a variety of virtual worlds; this is one of them. is it so bogus to suggest that the virtual worlds of tomorrow will be better than the ones of today?
how does the internet of today compare with that of just ten years ago? if second life is such a drag (and it is) why do so many people participate in it? is virtual sex with the better than the non-existant sex you have with them now?
will any of this replace the real world – i doubt it and so do most of these people.
i’ve gotten to a point where even if i disagree with some of kurzweil’s predictions and timing (god-like powers of matter transmutation etc. within 30 years or so) i completely buy into his central premise: technological improvement in terms of power and cost grow exponentially.
you give ’em more and cheaper power and they can do cooler shit with it. yeah science churns out some serious (and often dangerous) crap and we’ve all be victims of shoddy programming but how much would you really send back today? 50 years from now when they serve up some new and crazy shit will you reject it?
i doubt it. for all the bitching people (myself included) do about microsoft products, i don’t see a lot of people swapping out word for a new typewriter.
most of this stuff creeps up on you and worms its way into your life so seamlessly you never realize it. i’m old enough to remember a time before cellphones. then i remember a time when only douchebags had cellphones. now i live in a time where only frustratingly difficult people to get a hold still hold out.
new, faster, smaller, better, cheaper tech is coming. these dudes (and some of them are indeed cool enough to be called dudes) are mostly just trying to speculate how, what and when this shit will come about.
hM
p.s. and yes for the record, i too would love to have a prehensile tail AND lasers in my eyes AND skin that changes colors at will.
p.p.s. oh, and if you can’t leave the house without a pair of glasses, or a cell-phone or even a crappy digital watch, guess what? you too are a cyborg.
Inspired by this post, the Frau Doktorin Penny has been drawing up detailed architectural plans of what she would like my bionic body to look like and function. We are talking about renovation blueprints here… large sections of the existing Clyde corpus are crossed out and labelled “Make good”.
Thanks for nothing.
Whenever you talk about the future and how great it is, you always have to quote Cap’n Kirk, who probably lived the future better than any of us will:
how does the internet of today compare with that of just ten years ago? if second life is such a drag (and it is) why do so many people participate in it? is virtual sex with the better than the non-existant sex you have with them now?
Ahh, now you’ve hit the nail on the head! These future folks are like the comic book guy, virgins. “everyone will be required to mate once every 7 years. for some this will be much much less than normal, for others much much more.”
Lesley, would it make you happier if you believed you could be reincarnated as an elephant? I choose to believe in reincarnation, and to assume that some of my aberrant childhood memories indicate that I have lived other lives as a lioness. I am therefore striving to live the best human life I can manage, in hopes that my next incarnation will once again be among the Felidea. “Rationally” this is just crazy talk, but it’s no crazier than the stuff I learned during twelve years of parochial school, and a lot less crazy than quite a few other *respectable* religious theories. And probably less crazy than assuming that my consciousness will be downloadable into a machine within my predicted actuarial lifespan…
Anne Laurie, if reincarnation exists and if I am ever deemed deserving enough to return as an elephant, it would have to be in a world – or a part of the world – free of unconscious scary humans. When they’re not snaring, poisoning and spearing you for your tusks or to prove their manhood, they’re robbing you of your habitat and stealing your babies to put in their zoos, circuses and showbiz acts. And when you rebel because you’ve had enough they write headlines like “elephants on the rampage in ____” or “elephants caught swimming in Indian ocean” – as if, by swimming, which you love to do and are very good at, you’ve done something illicit. Lately humans are horrified that elephants have the need to eat and drink. Heavens, an elephant is a right criminal for needing 300 lbs of produce a day and 50 gallons of water. What created such a greedy monster? The earth simply can’t sustain such a creature. And heaven forbid you should reproduce after the holocaust of a massive unregulated ivory trade. Oh sure, two decades ago there were hundreds of thousands of elephants roaming Africa and nobody said boo about it, and today there are a incomparable handful. But there are many more humans and these can’t have elephants migrating around the continent without passports and visas as if they own the place. Elephants need corridors, fences, rules. They need to earn their keep. Have too many babies and they’ll
murdercull your whole family. (Now that humans realize because of research that elephants are highly intelligent and socially complex – valuing family and friends above everything – they slaughter whole families because it’s more compassionate to put everyone down and not leave a handful alive to endure the trauma and the suffering that comes with losing family members. (I’m not kidding. South Africa is planning to do just that in the next little while.) Never say humans don’t care! More often, though, they kill off all the adults, sell the ivory, and leave the babies alive, because babies can be sold to zoos that market their animal exhibits as conservation efforts. And the elephants in those exhibits soon develop arthritis and foot rot and other ailments they don’t develop in the wild because standing around in little dirt yards being spectacles is very bad for their health (not to mention sanity). I personally know one elephant who died at the age of 35 from very painful footrot. She had one good year here, but rescuing her was extremely difficult and painful but so worth it.Ack.. I’ll stop now 🙂
Anyhow, if I’m lucky I’ll get to support a few elephants here and here, and be part of a support network to save elephants from shitty captive situations before I pass on from this world.
Here are a couple of lion vids to warm your heart, lioness.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xr1pWzoLvT8
john,
you say it like it’s a bad thing. everybody wants to get laid – what’s wrong with creating new ways to do so?
it will never compare to the real thing but it doesn’t have to – it just needs to be good enough to make do.
i think most of the online sex world owes it’s existence to the fact that people will take what they can get.
maybe i’m just a glass half-full type. i suppose they are too.
still, the issue is less about how lame or how awesome a particular futurist idea is -either way – if it makes money, someone will eventually implement it. the real issue for them is more about what’s plausible, likely and/or inevitable.
i mean this is the fun stuff – some have postulated massive economic upheaval, eventual war and death on a scale exceeding that of past world wars.
it’s fun to think about – it’s scary to think about.
hM
p.s. there is a missing bit about insert your favorite actor, historical figure or comic book hero in that second sentence. the sad truth is that many (not all!) of these folk do indeed resemble the comic book guy.*
* that could have been me if it hadn’t been for a particularly lucky mirror placement that caused me to cut off my pony tail in college. that’s scary to think about.
Not to mention who the hell will fix this crap when it breaks down? No matter how many supercalifapilistic redundancies you build in, you’ll eventually need someone outside the system to stand by in case of an emergency. You’ll also need someone who doesn’t get in on the fun otherwise being a set of electrons whizzing through the ether wouldn’t be as much fun. Yea verily, only the Cool Kids shall experience the delights of copulating with a goat-headed girl with ta-tas the size of Kansas. That’ll show ’em!
In fact, you’ll need some sort of slaves that are somehow just smart enough to work their way around the complexities of your mainframe, but not smart enough to piss on your mother board and walk away. Good luck with that.
I don’t know about you, but if I were a member of the FleshSack FixIt Race, I’d wait until the FreeRoaming ElectroRace was all downloaded in their VirtuoWorld and use their discarded carcasses – sorry, Fleshy Cocoons – to fertilize my nice big farm.
Because physical machinery can’t be controlled from the inside? We already do a whole lot not with our own hands, but relying on various tools, and those are going to get better.
That’s a load of hackery worthy of townhall. Are you aiming for McCullough’s spot?
Yep. And when the tools break, we’ll make more tools. And when the machines for making tools break … well, by that time we will have come up with something where we don’t need the machines! And victory will be ours in Iraq!
I thought hacking was good and will allow us to twiddle our own knobs 4evar. But since you brought up ClownHall, I must say that the similarities between the Rise of the Machine folks and the BushLeague Squad are striking. Or are you telling me this technology 1. Won’t require massive exploitation of resources for a somehow “better” tomorrow. 2. Won’t require a cheap labor force to create it. 3. Will be freely available (emphasis on free) to anyone who wants a home in the Matrix?
Why would they, when they can be repaired by same tools they make?
Because scientific research and and developement of complex machinery top the list of recipients of natural resources and cheap uneducated labor.
Are you against all scientific progress, just because rich people always get to use it’s fruits before everyone else?
Oh, and I brought up Clownhall because of that dude who was going on about “virtual orgazmic rape simulator” Mass Effect.
Was I the only person in the entire world who saw that episode of the new Doctor Who where all the ordinary people got made into Cybermen and then went all completely batshit at the end and thought, “I could handle that; that wouldn’t actually be as bad as all that”? (Certainly not as bad as a grease-and-lactose-laden bag of salt-and-vinegar chips on my fucked-up digestion.)
On the other hand, I have been in a state of uneasy armed detente with my body for the last decade or so, and it’s only going to get worse from here on out. Stick my brain in a jar? Sure, once I hit sixty or so (assuming I live that long, that is), I’ll be begging someone to do it.
Sorry folks, but any time you have a collection of humans, you are going to have competition for power; cyborg, meatsack, or FreeRoaming ElectroRace are/will not be immune. That right there guarantees unfair distribution of resources, and someone/something being exploited for those on the top of the heap.
Same as it ever was.
I hate to be the one to bring the proto-Matrix party of the Instistupid of the Futzers to a screeching, clattering head crash, but you’re sorta gonna have to deal with me first if you ever hope to become the visionary Bill Gates of meatware.
Am I the only person out there who doesn’t want to spend eternity as an immortal robot?
Bite my shiny metal ass!
Gavin how about Chippies?
Much love and mad props to my Sadly, No peeps (that’s how they talked in the late nineties, where I am stuck), but BoingBoing is more fun to read than SN, and I am pretty much completely in the brain-uploading, shiny metal ass camp.
Oh, and I don’t think it’s glibertarian or libertarian or political at all. It’s a science fiction thing. You’re not supposed to understand.
Sorry folks, but any time you have a collection of humans, you are going to have competition for power; cyborg, meatsack, or FreeRoaming ElectroRace are/will not be immune. That right there guarantees unfair distribution of resources, and someone/something being exploited for those on the top of the heap.
A couple of notes. First off, you’re talking about collections of trans- or metahumans, not necessarily all humans. I’m not suggesting there will be a flip of a switch and human nature becomes irrelevant, but physical changes will inevitably bring other changes.
Secondly, what if there’s more than one heap? If I’m in an Immortal Android Body, why the hell should I care about the Matrixulator war over processor time? If I can put myself on a slow boat to Rigel or M31, what power does anybody else have over me?
As Douglas Adams told us: “Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist, but that’s just peanuts to space.” There’s lots of of room, resources and time for humanity (including its trans, meta and post varieties). Maybe we get to that point, maybe we don’t, but one thing is for sure: Humanity isn’t going to stay the way it is forever. The choices seem to be cake or death. Which do you choose?
Well, since we (and only we) be God’s Chosen, cake for us and death for everyone else!
As everyone else seems to be bringing up Dr Who, I suppose this is as good a time as any to mention Galaxy Express 999, a bizarre 1978 science-fantasy series (imagine Peckinpah directing The Secret Railroad.) In the future, the world’s rich do, in fact, convert themselves into cyborgs, and proceed to remake the world into a kind of cybernetic Brazil, where the teeming ranks of improverised “normal” humnans get treated as cattle or worse.
More of the series here.
The point of whole process is precisely to get rid of some unfortunate kinks that evolution left in during our transformation from our primate ancestors.
And you’re all missing that seminal work of the 1980s, the Transformers episode “Autobot Spike,” where their human friend transferred his brain into a body made of Autobot spare parts. He was nearly driven insane. Our moral is that if Cybertronian technology can’t pull it off, we’re at least 9000 years away.
If nature’s lottery has given you all you need for a happy, healthy, productive life, great. But the only way to keep ordinary (healthy) people from having these brain enhancing medicines is to also ban it from the people who \’need\’ it, and I just can\’t see doing that.
Sure, people don\’t \’need\’ those meds in that they won\’t die without them, but if the difference can be disability or a job, that seems like a need to me.
When some people through the luck of the genetic draw live to be a healthy 100, independent and at home until they\’re 99, and other people live to 75, the last 5 in a nursing home, yes, I do want to have better tools.
The medicines that\’ll help prevent those 5 years of fading frailty will, if taken by healthy people, might make them live a bit longer. So, what, do we tell people that \”Hey, we expect you\’re only going to make it to 85, so no help for you after 80, and nevermind that some people naturally make it to 100.\”
I watched my partner\’s father fade from Alzheimer\’s. Seeing the same right now with my brother in law\’s grandma, and then 20 years from now it\’ll be his father and uncles, and later him. Knowning how the brain works and being able to hack it seems useful. If a healthy person gets a better memory because there’s anti-Alzheimer’s medicine that helps them keep their memory: I’ll vote for memory.
ADD and ADHD, depression, narcolepsy, bipolar disorder, anxiety… the more science learns about these, the more science can design meds that are specific to narrow biochemical pathways. (Sure, some of these are helped by therapy, but therapy only works on some types of brain disorders)
For example, recently they\’ve figured out how to make an anti-anxiety medicine that isn’t addictive by redesigning it to not work on certain receptors. For people with debilitating anxiety, this is going to be great, because right now doctors are afraid to prescribe anti-anxiety meds long-term for fear of addiction.
And that design work may also help in making pain meds that the DEA isn”t going to throw doctors in jail for prescribing. Far, far too many people live in pain because of fears of addiction. Far too many people live on disability because the only pain meds that work also make them sleepy.
The fact IS.
In fact, you’ll need some sort of slaves that are somehow just smart enough to work their way around the complexities of your mainframe, but not smart enough to piss on your mother board and walk away. Good luck with that.
Ah, yes, the Servant Problem. You’d think those scienteriffic types would come up with some kinda kool word to exemplify the bitter reality that there will never be a Master Race that doesn’t rely upon some kind of… i dunno… robot worker to empty the drainpans and polish the contacts?
Because if we can just kick the drudgework far enough downstream, it’ll all be good, right?
I swear, half of humanity’s problems are related to the fact that we still believe if you drop your crap out of the treetop, it’s been disappeared forever.
The fact is NOT; everything is permitted.
I swear, half of humanity’s problems are related to the fact that half of us still believe if you drop your crap out of the treetop, mum will make it disappear.
Fixed.
Well I dunno from any of that, but I’m tellin you one thing.
If I live in the treetop, I AM dropping my crap out, because DUH, I don’t want to LIVE with it. The flies, the smell?
Nope. Don’t think so. Oh, I know, if I go down out of the treetop, I’ll step in crap, but let me remind you, that is NOT where I live…
mikey
Jeezus. When did “progressives” get so freaking close-minded?
Why don’t you kids get back to something you understand – like whining about Nader?
Since every time this topic comes up, duh.
Jeezus. When did “progressives” get so freaking close-minded?
anyone who lives in your air-quotes exists only in your head.
Actually it had more to do with never knowing what political terms to use when talking to Americans, given your confusion about the differences between leftist, liberals, libertarians, fascists, etc.
I guess if I’d dumped the quotes I woulda got told the term didn’t apply to the local wildlife.
Carry on!
But what if somebody invented a way so that you could fly, say by making tissues and organs out of an “aerogel”-like substance?
Hmmm? Would you do it?
FLYING!!!