We are so screwed.

To be fair, he’ll have lost two and only hopelessly mired us in a third.

Let’s strive for accuracy Brad.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy gets canned. I remember when he was hired (sometime last year?), I thought to myself: “Holy shit! A Pentagon official who actually thinks that military strategy is more important than kissing Bush’s ass!”

Silly liberals, “strategy” and “thinking stuff through” is irrelevant when Jebus simply tells you to bomb shit.

Susan, that is exactly what I thought.

Iran will make Afghanistan and Iraq look like a cake walk.

If only there were some kind of mechanism in the constitution to reign in such unchecked aggression, law breaking, and incompetence…

The fact is, Iran will be crushed by the Heartland.

If only there were some kind of mechanism in the constitution to reign in such unchecked aggression, law breaking, and incompetence…

What are you implying? That we misuse our oversight pwers which were intended by the founders to punish presidents who get on-job blowjobs to do actual oversight?

I guess he’ll need a new watch.

The fact is, Iran will be crushed by the Heartland.

Only if you convince the Heartland that Iran wants to gaymarry their sons and send their daughters off to communist universities.

Well there’s always the chance that by the end of his term we’ll have two wars and a military coup. I don’t think Fallon is the only top brass who’s decided that attacking Iran is a mistake that can’t be made.

Gary, you are too stupid for words.

We’re fucked. That’s it, just totally fucked. Doomed.

No, not doomed, screwed. China holds our economy in the palm of its hand. If they dumped the T-Bills our economy would not recover for quite some time.

And if I’m not mistaken, China gets a significant amount of oil from Iran.

It would be better if we were doomed, because then we wouldn’t have to suffer through the Second Depression/Third World War/Last Gasp of Modern Humanity.

The fact is, Iran is no match for the G-d fearing sons and daughters of our G-d fearing heartland.

Netvocate check, please?

I don’t think Fallon is the only top brass who’s decided that attacking Iran is a mistake that can’t be made.

I’ve thought this way myself for a while. I wonder just what the top brass would actually do if ordered to begin massive air assaults on Iran. But a coup by the military would still be a very bad thing. Whatever Bush has done and wants to do, at least he’s elected (well, more so than military brass).

The fact is, Iran will be crushed by the Heartland.

If only it was closer to the coast. Oh well, sorry.

The fact is, when the USA roomba sweeps up you liberals, it will then go and sweep up Iran, and will be emptied into the Dustbin of History.

Heartland.

10 more months…..

gbear said,

March 6, 2008 at 0:39

Well there’s always the chance that by the end of his term we’ll have two wars and a military coup. I don’t think Fallon is the only top brass who’s decided that attacking Iran is a mistake that can’t be made.

That’s what I’m wondering too. Snarky comment aside, I do realize that there are quite a few generals in the Pentagon who are grumbling at Bush’s quixotic conquest of windmills, as they were invented by Islamic Persians Mooslims. I wouldn’t be surprised if the military marches on the White House instead of following the order to attack Iran. If that happens, the ensuing panic will pretty much turn the world upside down.

But at least I’d rather have some random general in the WH than Bush.

It would be better if we were doomed, because then we wouldn’t have to suffer through the Second Depression/Third World War/Last Gasp of Modern Humanity.

Well, there’s always pandemic H5N1. An 83% fatality rate among the 25-45 cadre might even slow down the carbon emission rate increase long enough to delay the worst of global warming into the *next* century.

They don’t have to do a coup, or march on the WH. They can simply refuse the order. Indeed, they are required to refuse an illegal order. That would indeed stir things up.

Now look what you’ve got me doing, melpomenh.

Larry Johnson was theorizing a while back that the nuclear weapon transfer debacle was in fact a stand-off between Cheney and the Joint Chiefs (or one of them or something like that). I’ll see if I can find a linkie-link.

Snark aside, why wouldn’t they do it?

Oil–it’ll hit $150+/barrel, but don’t they want it high? If the public complains, tell them freedom isn’t free.

Military–Use bombs. The military is okay with bombing. If the bombs don’t work use a nuclear one and lie about it.

Public Sentiment–they don’t care, or they think war will keep them *in* office.

International Sentiment–They hate us already, so who cares?.

Value of dollar–they think China won’t dare do anything, for fear of hurting their own economy.

Other Militaries–America is the bestest, nobody can beat our brave heroes, blah blah.

Congress–tame puppies that’ll roll over and play dead.

But at least I’d rather have some random general in the WH than Bush.

And if there were a random general in the WH, you can bet your ass he’d be more of a patriot.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/09/24/simple_error_my_ass/

Douglas said,

Only if you convince the Heartland that Iran wants to gaymarry their sons and send their daughters off to communist universities.

Do you doubt for even one second that the Reich Wing noise machine can’t float this turd? The same folks who convinced The Heartland that John Kerry was an AWOL war criminal, Valerie Plame was a cashier in the CIA cafeteria, and George W. Bush was a sentient being?

What’s Michael Brown up to these days?

In fact the real question is:

George W. Bush: Great president? Or the greatest president?

I am so happy that I got to live through a period of history that future historians will no doubt puzzle over at great length. How could the American people tolerate such an unmitigate string of failures? Can you remember a president who has stunk so much of misfortune? 9/11, Katrina, Iraq, Afghanistan, domestic spying, the US attorneys scandal, the shuttle disaster, the Minneapolis bridge, the subprime crisis, the attempt to loot social security, $100 per barrel oil. And all of it, with the possible exception of the shuttle, can be blamed directly on Bush administration policies.
This guy really is President Schleprock. All that’s missing is the personal rain cloud.

What’s Michael Brown up to these days?

Now that’s just mean.

The same folks who convinced The Heartland that John Kerry was an AWOL war criminal, Valerie Plame was a cashier in the CIA cafeteria, and George W. Bush was a sentient being?

Yea, but that was the Stupid Heartland, Gary’s heartland. Pulling the wool over their eyes is easier than giving them a sweater for christmas. I don’t believe that floating this past the pentagon will be as effortless.

He will NOT go to war in Iran. I refuse to believe it. No one could be so stupid and cruel. No one could be so completely out of touch. He will not go to war. The American people may have been stupid to elect him, but something that stupid could not have fooled so many people.

Please, oh please tell me that he will no go to war in Iran.

Oh come on. The US isn’t going to go to war with Iran. It’s about maintaining military/economic/political dominance in an area that happens to have stupendous amounts of oil. It’s more likely the administration wants a military commander that would accept a permanent military in Iraq. To sell that idea, they need someone who has an aggressive stance towards Iran. Attacking Iran would be like attacking North Korea, Iraq, Afganistan, Syria, Jordan, Somalia, Cuba, Venezuala all at the same time. Not going to happen.

Apologies to Gary who was probably getting a boner from the prospect of war.

If I believe anything, it is that Bush and Cheney are whacko enough to really really want to bomb Iran.

I wouldn’t put it past them to bomb Iran just to force the Dem presidential candidates to take a position on it. It took five years and 70% public opposition to Iraq before the Dems nutted up enough to at least give lip service to opposing that war. In the heat of an airstrike on Iran, it would take more balls than either of them has shown thus far to condemn it.

Oh, and folks, Gary Ruppert is a parody troll. Just so you know.

Well, he’s probably getting a parody boner anyway.

Man, all I wanted for this year was not another Republican elected president, no war with Iran, and no telecom amnesty – and I knew the odds were against the last. Hmm, 1 out of 3, perhaps, and we ain’t to November yet…

Oh, and folks, Gary Ruppert is a parody troll. Just so you know.

The fact is, there is a Real Gary Ruppert, and it is me. The fact is, my Heartland is going to give you a good rogering.

The fact is, Gary, that I’m going to sit on you and tickle you until you pee your pants if you don’t stop taking my name in vain!

Gary needs some McCainal sex.

The problem with Adm. William Fallon is that he “belongs to what we call the reality-based community, people who believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality … That’s not the way the world really works anymore,”

Me said, I wouldn’t put it past them to bomb Iran just to force the Dem presidential candidates to take a position on it.

I read Seymour Hersh’s article about US clandestine activities in Iran a couple years ago. It was pretty scary, but it was limited to nuclear enrichment sites. Still pretty scary considering the last thing that you’d want to bomb is something that is itself ‘nuclear.’ Most countries outside the US thinks Iran has a right to persue nuclear technology for energy purposes, so long as there’s oversight, etc. The US has its own standards and tends to do a lot of posturing (e.g., China should respect human rights, even while we’re torturing people), and I think part of the reason is that we have the arsenal to back it up. I guess I really don’t have conclusive evidence that the US won’t bomb Iran. I’m relying on my gut feeling and on bit of a historical perspective. I mean…Iran is a pretty big country. The people are civilized, intelligent and most are sympathetic to the concerns and values of the majority of Americans. …I’m not getting my point across very well.

Oh, and folks, Gary Ruppert is a parody troll. Just so you know.

Damn! My suspicions were correct. Now I feel like fool.

gbear said,

If I believe anything, it is that Bush and Cheney are whacko enough to really really want to bomb Iran.

Cheney and Kristol and company see this last 10 months as their last chance to bomb Iran, and they’re desperate enough to pull anything to get ‘er done.

And you’ve still got Fred Hiatt and the WaPo and whoever it is at the NYT who decides that hiring Kristol is a good idea pushing their bloodthirsty cause from the ol’ liberal-biased media.

Hey, let’s get Hillary’s opinion. She’s got experience.

Now I feel like fool.

The fact is, I pity the fool.

Who goes there?
It is me, Gary, son of Esther Ruppert, from the land of heart. King of the wingnuts, defeater of teh Liberal, Sovereign of all internets!
Pull the other one!
I am, and this is my trusty servant Cheeto. We have ridden the length and breadth of the land in search of knights who will join me in my court at the south suburban Cracker Barrel. I must speak with your lord and master.
What? Ridden on a horse?
Yes!
You’re using coconuts!
What?

On second thought, I’m not going to read the above post. ‘Tis a silly post.

Hokay. Let’s see.

The order will bypass many parts of the system and go direct to the carrier air groups. The Alpha Strike packages will be rearming from their first sorties (air defense supression) when the strike is announced. The Generals and admirals will have only the choice of getting onboard with our brave aviators in harms way or retiring in silence. Don’t kid yourself. They can do it.

Bush and Cheney have absolutely NO reason NOT to attack Iran. They do, however, have compelling reasons to do so. They have hyped iran and NorKor as the great threats. Negotiating with NorKor is rapidly leaving them with egg on their face. They are not concerned about re election, and if McCain is going to run on more wars, more times, he’d have a way to work air strikes. And honestly, if it’s an air campaign? What’s the response? Likely attacks against American military forces in Iraq. And how do you respond? Why, with additional troops and permanant bases. How is this not working in the administration’s favor?

Third, the party wants to make it a “national security election”. Ok. You better take some fucking casualties and dramatic damage to reinforce the threat, or it’s all just tired rhetoric. You desperately need to poke a hornets nest somewhere…

mikey

That’s the problem with setting off Oh Noes!! alarms constantly–you have to keep uping the ante. Every time Bush wants something he threatens to let us all die; it’s becoming white noise.

Bush will have lost three major wars.

And we’ll have lost our self-respect, our Constitution, and our country.

He still wins. The smirking fuckwit.

The fact is, Iran will be crushed by the Heartland.

Well, the fucking heartland better go sign up to do it then.

The sad, serious truth is the only thing the US can do that doesn’t improve Iran’s regional position is angle for bilateral talks.

Iran wins every military confrontation, every round of UN sanctions, every single thing the US does with arbitrary force in the region.

There’s only two possibilities. Either GW Bush is an Iranian mole, or he’s just about as dense as depleted uranium.

Yeah, I know. We know the answer to that one, don’t we…

mikey

Iran is a threat to American national security and also a threat to our ally Israel. They must be prevented from getting nuclear weapons at all costs. I personally do not think an invasion is a good idea do to the fact that our ground forces are stretched too thin. However what I do think is a good idea is that American and Israeli warplanes should take out Iran’s nuclear reactors just like Israel did to Iraq in 1981. And the American and Israeli intelligence services should actively and covertly assist the Iranian resistance with the hope they will overthrow the fascist regime of the ayatollahs and establish a western style democracy.

they will overthrow the fascist regime of the ayatollahs and establish a western style democracy.

So, you gonna enlist, Rogered?

Why would middle easterners want a western style democracy instead of a middle eastern style of democracy?

How is Iran a threat to the US?

Why would we go to war for Isreal?

How will Iran react to being bombed?

How will they find and reach the underground facilities?

How will Iranians react to Americans trying to overthrow their government?

How will the middle east react to Isreal trying to threaten a middle eastern government?

Will Iran sell its oil to China instead of us?

Will it close the Straits of Hormuz?

Do we have any intelligence agents that speak Farsi and know the country well enought to overthrow the government?

How will we pay for a war?

“And the American and Israeli intelligence services should actively and covertly assist the Iranian resistance with the hope they will overthrow the fascist regime of the ayatollahs and establish a western style democracy.”

1. The best way to assisst the Iranian “resistance” would be NOT playing in the hand of the ruling hardliners there… by, for example, saber rattling, BOMBING their country, threatening to invade, appearing to interfere in internal affairs etc.
2. The iranian regime is about as “fascist” as the soviets. Not every dictatorial regime is fascist, FFS.

“They must be prevented from getting nuclear weapons at all costs.”

Does this include saying “We’re sorry, the Iraq war was a big mistake. The United States will publicly swear NOT to attack Iran without due cause (attack by Iran on itself our allies or nuclear WEAPON research, as determined by (some international organisation)) and respect Iranian Internal affairs”?

ooooh, a threat! Those weenies in Montana are apparently a-shakin in their skivvies.

Iran is a threat like a pencil is a flamethrower. Nobody, at least nobody with any grounding in reality, has postulated any believable scenarios where they actually, you know, threaten us, except for BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA MOOOOSLIM THEY WON’T DO WHAT WE SAY!!! WAAAWAAAHHH WAHHHHH!!!!

The reality? They don’t give two SHITS about us as a country; other than just wanting to be left the fuck alone; they react with predictable anger when morons like Rumsfeld and Cheney insist on trying to force American control down their throats.

Another possible option would be for American and Israeli intelligence officers working closely with the Iranian resistance to assasinate Ahmadenijad and the members of the religious leadership of Iran with the intention of replacing them with moderate pro-western leaders.

Iran is a great threat to us and to our ally Israel especially. Ahmadenijad has said publically the “Israel is a camp for the completion of genocide.” With a nuclear weapon(s) he just might make that a reality.

Iran also has at its desposale Hezbollah which is a shi’ite terrorist group that was formed by and is under the control of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. Our intelligence agencies have said that Hezbollah is a greater threat than Al-Queda.

With Iran developing nukes, whats to prevent them from distributing them to Hezbollah with orders to detonate them in an Israeli or American city?

Iran is a threat and needs to be stopped, you on the left need to take your proverbial heads out of the sand and wake up!

“Another possible option would be for American and Israeli intelligence officers working closely with the Iranian resistance to assasinate Ahmadenijad and the members of the religious leadership of Iran with the intention of replacing them with moderate pro-western leaders.”

Yay, religious war. Now, on what side shall the Legion of Dynamic Discord engage…
Oh, and we should totally use our Anti-Castro strategy against them – they’re bound to die of old age some day.

“Our intelligence agencies have said that Hezbollah is a greater threat than Al-Queda.”

We outed those who didn’t concur.

“With Iran developing nukes, whats to prevent them from distributing them to Hezbollah with orders to detonate them in an Israeli or American city?”

Port Security. Uh, sorry, we don’t have that anymore…

In other news, leaders of various latin american countries today had a press conference during which they expressed concern regarding the US nuclear weapons.
“The United States trains, equips and finances various terror organisations, like the contras, in our nations. With the US having nuclear weapons, what’s going to prevent them from giving those to their terrorists allies with orders to blow up on our cities?”, one spokesman said.
The only statement we could get from the Pentagon was a “Are you a commie or what!”

Again, nobody ever specifies HOW Iran poses a threat to us.

Are they going to invade? With their several thousand soldiers?

Are they going to put sand in our shorts? Buy up all our baseball teams?

Pee in our oil?

Go throughout he country, giving us really wicked wedgies one by one?

Throw rocks? Install a low yield nuke in a model airplane which runs out of glow fuel halfway across the Strait of Hormuz?

Make Brett Favre retire and the entire population of wisconsin commit suicide?

….hey, wait, That’s happening!!! the diabolical bastards!!!

Rugged in Montana said,

March 6, 2008 at 7:18

Unfunny parody troll said, blah blah blah.

Can we haz bannit, plz?

I did specify how Iran is a threat. They are developing nuclear weapons which they could use to arm Hezbollah(which is a part of the Revolutionary Guard) or other terrorist groups which could detonate them in American and Israeli cities.

While Iran’s conventional military is no threat to America, it certainly is a threat to our ally Israel who has to constantly be on the look out for an Iranian/Syrian invasion.

hee.

You’re a chicken, and you’re using that to justify your mindless bloodlust. sack up, willya?

As Douglas points out upthread, America is the only one out there actively brandishing nuclear weapons, and we actually have the means to deliver them.

Hezbollah would have to strap them to a goat, which wouldn’t quite be able to make it to Chicago, if you see what I mean.

And the people of Israel want to negotiate with their neighbors, for the most part. Why aren’t we letting them do so?

Rugged…I just had a beer, so I’m not going to be as coherent as you’d like me to be. Let me make some remarks relating to the nuclear issue and the issue of Hizbollah.

Any country that possesses nuclear material is a threat not only to world, but to itself. As you probably know, the US has a fair number of nuclear weapons. If it seriously considered Iran an imminent threat, there would be no hesitation in launching some kind of attack, and there would be no doubt that the US could destroy Iran. Now, putting aside that it is apparently inconceivable the US could ever launch a nuclear attack, we might want to ask whether, at present, there is any evidence that Iran possesses sufficient military strength, or expresses any intention or desire, to attack the US. The answer, depending on where you get your information, and what you ‘call’ information, will vary. From where I get my info, there is absolutely nothing that could justify a US attack on Iran and nothing that leads me to believe the Iranian government intends to attack us.

Your perception of Hizbollah is certainly consistent with US and Israeli PR. It might surprise you to know that Israeli soldiers commonly refer to members of Hizbollah as ‘freedom fighters.’…I know…it might seem unimaginable, but sometimes blanket statements and labels doesn’t exhaust the particularities involved in complex situations, and ‘complex’ doesn’t do justice to what’s going on in the Middle East. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that we shouldn’t be concerned or that we shouldn’t condemn violent groups and their acts, but understanding the source of their anger might show you a path towards a solution that might not necessitate brutality. Who knows, your investigation, should you decide to pursue one, might in the end show me to be the mind-numbing-liberal-nut-sack-sucker that you might think I am.

commonly refer to members of Hizbollah as ‘freedom fighters.’

sorry. That’s an overstatement. ‘Sometimes,’ I should say.

Hey, RIM,

Ever heard of Courage to Refuse?

I met an Israeli soldier at a party once who dismissed them as a bunch of leftists.

Because, you know, the best way to argue your point is to call the people who disgree with you leftists and dismiss them.

I didn’t find it very convincing. I must be a leftist.

You know, for such a rugged manly man, that RIM shore is askeered a lot, ain’t he? Don’t tell him that the Pakistanis have already had Teh Bomb for some time now. And especially don’t let him know how close that country is to rebellion. Or that Al Queda Classic(tm) is enjoying a resurgence there. He might just disappear up his own asshole in fright.

On second thought, go ahead and tell him.

Well there’s always the chance that by the end of his term we’ll have two wars and a military coup.

You know, that Esquire article was a real eye-opener in many things, but one thing that leapt out was the observation that while Rice and the State Department are intensely focusing on screwing up, er, making peace in Palestine, practically to the exclusion of other concerns, the only US official who’s continuously persuing high level diplomacy throughout the region and presenting a consistent vision of relations with heads of state from Egypt to Pakistan and all points in between is CENTCOM.

I mean, one doesn’t get to be an admiral without being a diplomat and a politician and the military does, should, and always has an important role in international diplomacy, but shouldn’t that be a subordinate role to that played by, oh I dunno, the diplomats? Shouldn’t that be supplemental to the State Dept efforts, rather than supplanting State’s lack of effort?

And I thought, well that’s just great. After years of whining about mission creep in the military, it turns out that the military is the only agency in the US gov’t with any competence and credibility left to perform the fucking State Dept’s job. When the military is the last functioning part of government, how far are we from a military government?

It’s more likely the administration wants a military commander that would accept a permanent military in Iraq.

Yeah, this leapt out too. Though the article pays a lot more attention to Fallon’s public criticism of an Iran war, I hadn’t known that he also opposed the Surge(tm) and was pushing for immediate drawdown of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. I’m starting to actually respect the guy, even if he is a gawdammed officer…

I remember when his appointment to CENTCOM by Gates was seen as evidence of an impending Iran attack. It made no sense to put a Navy aviator in total command of two land wars being fought by the Army… but it made perfect sense if you’re planning massive carrier-based air strikes. Remember, Gates had carried baggage for neocons before, and had only just replaced Rumsfeld. It turns out, per Esquire, that Gates has been central to opposing Cheney’s newest adventure and put Fallon there specifically to countermand the toadying Gen. Petreus. Pretty slick.

What’s Michael Brown up to these days?

Disaster preparedness consultation in the private sector. I shit you not.

Bush will have lost three major wars.

We did NOT lose Iraq! That was a tie! /Otto

(at trolls)

With all the stuff that the Patriot act has enabled, the wingnuts still think that the FBI/CIA/NSA/whichever govt service is in charge of those things won’t be able to detect a group of people trying to import and detonate nuclear weapons in American cities? How deluded and paranoid do you have to be?

On the idea that you could assassinate a head of state and replace them with a pro-western politician – that worked really well in Iraq, didn’t it?

You can’t take out their reactors, they’ve buried them too deeply and spread them around.

You may think Israel is your ally, recent research has shown that they are quite happy to take all the aid and then just do what the hell they want regardless of how it will affect the US.

(to Mikey)

I thought it was interesting reading the reports on the North Korean situation. Apparently the North Koreans didn’t have any nuclear weapons programs before they were identified as part of the axis of evil. Because Bush and Co included them in that group, they decided that if they were going to be accused of having nukes they might as well have them anyway, and the ‘earthquake’ that was reported a few years ago was the culmination of the work that they had done on producing them. Effectively, Bush made it much easier for them to develop and test nuclear weapons. There’s probably a slightly better way of putting all this, but the words aren’t coming to mind at the moment.

There’s probably a slightly better way of putting all this, but the words aren’t coming to mind at the moment.

Bush broadcast to the world that N.Korea was a terrorist enemy. Anticipating an attack, the N.Koreans decided that they would need a way to deter the US?

Bush broadcast to the world that N.Korea was a terrorist enemy. Anticipating an attack, the N.Koreans decided that they would need a way to deter the US?

If you accuse a group of nations to be the “axis of evil” and having weapons of mass destruction, and then proceed to invade one of them, the rest will figure out they’ll be next and look for a way to deter you – like getting weapions of mass destruction.Mission Self-fullfilling prophecy accomplished!

The Taliban Government and Saddam Hussein agree with you that we have lost both wars.