Yes, if you’re a single elderly woman whose husband dies of heart disease, you’re gonna end up in a nursing home.

If only the crazy ended there.

The real implication here is, why try to extend the lives of women who would otherwise succumb to heart disease? Because their husbands are only going to go ahead and die before they do, and when they have no man, clearly, their lives are over.

I think we should start collecting for the National Anal Cranial Insertion Fund to help unfortunates like Carey Roberts.

Help him get the rectal craniectomy he so desperately needs!

It’s probably bad that I misread the AHA’s site as “Gored for Women.”

what…

…the…

FUCK?!?!

There are so many things wrong with that. For one thing, even if we assume that a woman is completely dependent upon her husband, why does she immediately have to be shuffled off to a nursing home? Can’t their kids take care of her? Won’t anyone think about the CHILDREN?!?!

This can’t have been meant for publication. It must have been some sort of senility test they ran on Roberts. Which he failed.

Because their husbands are only going to go ahead and die before they do, and when they have no man, clearly, their lives are over.

He said many crazy things, but this isn’t one of them. Losing a spouse really *is* a risk factor for further medical problems. If I remember correctly, the risk is higher for widowers than for widows. And men *do* die earlier, and heart disease really *is* one of the reasons.

The questions he poses are blibbering nonsense, but that doesn’t mean that his underlying facts are wrong too.

“The real implication here is, why try to extend the lives of women who would otherwise succumb to heart disease? Because their husbands are only going to go ahead and die before they do, and when they have no man, clearly, their lives are over.”

Bingo.

He pulled that same bit 3 years ago, except it was “We should spend money preventing men’s heart disease because they’re the breadwinners, and if they die the women and children won’t have anyone to take care of them – but if the women die first, it’s ok because the men will be able to support the children.” or some such plonk.

Oh, Mr. Haversham, why do you hate women so?

Carey Roberts is below contempt.

I always felt sorry for the, “You kids get off of my lawn!” types.

So much anger. So much loneliness.

I just hope I don’t turn out like this crazy old codger.

Carey Roberts: proudly pro-suttee since, well, he forgets, but it’s been a really really long time.

Did anyone notice the part of his bio where it said he was once a professor of psychology? Wow.

Anyway. So doing *any* research on women and heart disease while men have higher rates of heart disease than women do is like buying a gun and killing men.

So NO research should be done on women and heart disease till men’s rates drop at least to the level of women’s. Sounds totally fair to me, especially since we all know women have no reason to live if their menfolk die. Let’s just concede the underlying facts.

“…but if the women die first, it’s ok because the men will be able to support the children.”

I really should go look this stuff up, but my memory is that when the woman dies first, the man doesn’t last very long afterwards. (The converse is not true, or at least not to the same degree.)

So, wait, he’s saying its better the old bags die earlier of their heart disease, and that preventing heart disease just means they have to hang around in nursing homes after their menfolk die?

Sounds like someone is Mr. Bitter.

Oh, Carey
I’m all alone
At the nursing home
My hubby’s gone
Oh, Carey

I think this old coot’s point, to use the word loosely, is that he thinks the AHA hasn’t done enough to promote heart health in men. Like all that stuff that was turned up through the Framingham studies and so forth about high cholesterol, exercise, blood pressure, etc., in the 70s and 80s and 90s, in which studies, by the way, of course only men were subjects, as it wasn’t understood clearly until oh I think the early 90s that women could even experience heart disease.

I’m too lazy to look it up, but IIRC, don’t women have a longer life expectancy than men anyway, heart disease or no?

And – on a personal note – my family is littered with ornery old bitches that never go into nursing homes, up into their 80’s and 90s.

He said many crazy things, but this isn’t one of them. Losing a spouse really *is* a risk factor for further medical problems. If I remember correctly, the risk is higher for widowers than for widows. And men *do* die earlier, and heart disease really *is* one of the reasons.

He said this:
1. Why does the Heart Association want to deprive aging women of the main source of their financial support?

and the only implication I can take away from that, given that it’s a response to this: By wearing red and making a donation, you’ll help the American Heart Association support ongoing research and education about women and heart disease.

is that by researching and educating about women and heart disease, it will only extend the lives of women who will then be deprived of their main source of financial support when their husbands preceed them in death, given that he followed that statement with this one: 2. Why does the AHA want to send more elderly women to nursing homes?

I don’t see the flaw in my interpretation. Your point about losing a spouse being a risk factor is a quite valid one, as are those about men dying earlier and why they die earlier…but I think those are the points he used to support this idea that somehow the AHA doing a campaign on women and heart disease really was a waste of time.

Not to be dense here, but those numbers he quotes seem to be missing some info. It doesn’t give any solid statistics of age at death by heart disease. Is it possible that when women do die of heart disease it is (on average) at a younger age (though less frequently) than men?

Obviously the AHA has a multi-level effort going on here, addressing men, women, young and old. (Which Roberts seems to be blissfully clueless of.)

MzNicky: Yeah, that’s what I took away from it (not that I wanted to take anything away from it, but…) We already know what men can do to reduce their risk of heart disease. The problem is that many men don’t do it. For women, my impression is that we’re not as far along in our understanding of the risk factors, and we’re *certainly* not as far along in keeping women informed of how to reduce risk.

But the Framingham study does include women, fyi. Not every researcher included women in their analyses, but they were part of the study from the beginning.

Trilateral Chairman: Heart-attack symptoms can present differently in women than in men. That’s one of the things the AHA wants to educate people about, including emergency-room workers, who until pretty recently often tended to dismiss women’s symptoms as indigestion, etc., and sent them home, instead of treating their condition.

I always understood women had been excluded from the Framingham studies, but I am perhaps mistaken. It’s happened before.

Jennifer: I don’t see the flaw in my interpretation. Your point about losing a spouse being a risk factor is a quite valid one, as are those about men dying earlier and why they die earlier…but I think those are the points he used to support this idea that somehow the AHA doing a campaign on women and heart disease really was a waste of time.

Hmm, I actually don’t think we’re disagreeing much. I agree that the questions are preposterous in any number of ways (life is too short to spend time counting ’em all). I suppose (1) could also be taken to be a question about why the AHA isn’t helping *men* (which of course it is), but (2) is pretty much indefensible on any grounds.

Yes, if you’re a single elderly woman whose husband dies of heart disease, you’re gonna end up in a nursing home.

Makes perfect fucking sense to me. Clearly these women are nothing without their men.

Here’s the site for the Framingham study. I’m poking around the bibliography now. Most of the studies from the 50s and 60s don’t have abstracts, but many of the ones from the 70s, 80s, and 90s do include women.

I’m cracking up thinking about his readers (if he has any) actually calling up the poor people at the American Heart Association and cryptically yelling at them about imprisoning old ladies in nursing homes and denying them income. There is absolutely zero chance that the poor folks answering the phone at the AHA will have any idea what these loons are trying to complain about.

That seminar in logic taught by Jonah Goldberg is finally bearing fruit.

Ladies, when was the last time you visited a nursing home? Did you wonder why nearly all the residents were women? The reason is simple — men meet their maker 5 years sooner than the fairer sex.

Which is why you can find Carey down at the senior center dances every Saturday night cruisin’ for ASS.

Is Carey Roberts actually a fake persona invented by Ian Roberts of UCB as part of an ongoing prank?
Ifso, who’s Besser writing as over at Renew? That guy kills me.

2 mintues of looking and already 2 good reasons why this is also a benefit for men.

1)Women have more influence over the diets of their family than men So if women are better educated about heart disease there will be a better chance for the family having a heart healthy diet and reducing the risk for all family members.

2)Men’s social isolation linked to higher heart disease risk So men who do not lose their spouse to heart disease will maintain a better social relationship and live longer?

So the question remains, why does Roberts want there to be more lonely old men in the nursing homes?

So the question remains, why does Roberts want there to be more lonely old men in the nursing homes?

Well, wouldn’t heart health programs for men use money that could theoretically go towards prosecuting child molesters?

The REAL question is, why does Carey Roberts favor letting perverts who rape and kill toddlers roam free?

When I read stories like this, I remember that classic line of Charlton Heston:

Soylent Green is PEOPLE!

And that explains everything you need to know about shitheads like this.

Which is why you can find Carey down at the senior center dances every Saturday night cruisin’ for ASS.

Heh. My grandfather moved into an assisted-living place about a year after my grandmother died, and his floor contained something like four men and 25 women. I think he received more romantic propositions in that year than I’ve received in my entire life. He was so befuddled by the experience that he’d avoid going to lunch in the cafeteria for fear that someone *else* would proposition him. Strange situation.

Also… I realize there’s lots of logical problems in this, but elderly men tend not to be members of the workforce, meaning they and their wives are living off savings and/or pensions, neither of which vanish when the man dies. (Maybe/probably some pensions do, which is shitty.) In any case, if a widow ends up in a nursing home doesn’t that mean her spouse either wrote her out of her will, or was a shitty provider to begin with and didn’t save enough to keep his wife cared for? Nevermind the absence of mention of the role adult children play in this process, or the fact that some nursing homes are actually pleasant places, provided you can afford them, Carey should be blaming the dead deadbeat husbands, right?

*out of his will, obviously

The answer’s quite simple: at age 65, everyone should be rounded up and killed. This would cut the Social Security deficit to zero, and allow tax cuts for the working and middle classes. It would also assist the economy and unemployed, since job openings that were held by people who hadn’t saved enough for retirement and had to work past 65 would now be vacant.

My grandfather moved into an assisted-living place about a year after my grandmother died, and his floor contained something like four men and 25 women.

You know, that would be really hot if the nursing home was for retired Swedish Bikini Team members under 55, but somehow, I’m thinking not.

I would think Carey would be in favor of a lot of single elderly women.

In any case, if a widow ends up in a nursing home doesn’t that mean her spouse either wrote her out of her will, or was a shitty provider to begin with and didn’t save enough to keep his wife cared for?

Not necessarily. Nursing homes can be private, meaning the family is paying for the care of the person who can no longer function in their own home. My dad was in one for four years before he died last year, as he developed deep dementia, and my 78 year old mom could no longer prevent him from wandering the streets in his underwear.

His union pension paid for most of it, the rest made up by Social Security. My mom is looking into assisted living facilities, which would be paid for by her survivor’s benefits and Social Security, however, she’s giving the children her money, in the hopes she can get Medicaid to help kick in.

This last bit may be a valid reason for this ridiculous outburst, but it is an overreaction, to be sure.

It was meant as a rhetorical question, as I thought what followed made clear, actor212.

Where’s the fun in that, Brad? Sheesh, you liberal fascists!

Or not rhetorical, farcical, I guess. I’m a bit blazed, pardon my semi-coherency.

I think I remember reading about a means by which elderly women who after the death of their husbands could be taken care of. Something about funeral pyres and throwing something onto the fire.

I’m not totally sure, the article was in Hindi.

I didn’t think Carey Roberts’ crypt was wired for broadband.

Patkin: neener!

The REAL question is, why does Carey Roberts favor letting perverts who rape and kill toddlers roam free?

Jake H.: Indeed! I think you’ve got right to the nub of it. Well done, and central to everyone’s point.

In other words: Lesbians get the last laugh.

Before 1920, the reason women’s lifespans were about the same as men’s was that they so often died in childbirth. In other words, women often didn’t live long enough to die of heart disease. Pre-menopause, women have lower rates of heart disease than men; after menopause, things even out. More women die of heart disease than of breast cancer. The Am. Heart Assoc. efforts are to educate the public and health professionals that heart disease is not just a men’s problem. They’re not ignoring men’s health at all, but trying to change some ingrained ideas. Sorry for no snarky humor, just facts.

If that isn’t the god-damnedest thing I’ve ever read. I mean, the man is just a mean son of a bitch. No alternative explanation is as elegant or parsimonious.

Actor: careful, the nursing homes can reach back something like 5 years to take back any cash gifts your parents have given you.

In this dude’s world there’s only so much to go around,so anything given to women means that somehow men go without. Nevermind that women are HUMAN BEINGS and maybe some of that study would also apply to men,seeing as how we’re like the same species and shit.

Jesus,what a bitter and hateful old shit.

~~~she’s giving the children her money, in the hopes she can get Medicaid to help kick in ~~~

————————————————————-

She should be very careful about this:

“States can “look back” to find transfers of assets for 36 months prior to the date the individual is institutionalized or, if later, the date he or she applies for Medicaid. For certain trusts, this look-back period extends to 60 months.

If a transfer of assets for less than fair market value is found, the State must withhold payment for nursing facility care (and certain other long-term care services) for a period of time referred to as the penalty period.”

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/10_TransferofAssets.asp

…single elderly women are four times more likely to end up in a nursing home.

Um… four times more likely than whom? Married elderly women? Single young women? Single elderly men? THIS IS A MEANINGLESS “STATISTIC.”

Carry on.

Obviously the AHA has a multi-level effort going on here, addressing men, women, young and old. (Which Roberts seems to be blissfully clueless of.)

That’s it! The Republican Party’s campaign slogan for 2008!

Mitt Romney: Blissfully Clueless

John McCain: Blissfully Clueless

Mike Huckabee: Blissfully Clueless

Just fit the motto to the most appropriate candidate, and the Repug voters will flock to those voting booths.

(After seeing the Mitt Romney music video where he “sings” Who let the dogs out, I think he’s a shoe-in. Admittedly, they all have their moments.)

Soylent Red is made out of Republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we should start collecting for the National Anal Cranial Insertion Fund to help unfortunates like Carey Roberts.

OK, but what color do we wear on their special day?

Brown’s not my color, man.

How many time can my head explode?

It so burns this woman’s britches that someone’s trying to good for people who haven’t proved they’ve deserved it in some wingnut-blessed form – that she finds a way to make this *bad*?

And then!

It’s bad enough that she’s just automatically assuming women can’t pay their own bills…but then, she takes the further leap off the edge of the previously conceivable, by saying longer lives are bad because living longer is harder than living shorter?

Woo.

It’s a “retirement community”!!

Jim, Carey’s a sad, shriveled up old man, not a woman. Hell, he probably doesn’t even know any women. Maybe that explains his crotchetiness, 80+ years of blue balls? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

It’s true that women tend to outlive men (it’s a conspiracy!) but what has this got to do with nursing homes? Nothing, since both men and women, and couples are housed by nursing homes. To the best of my knowledge, nursing homes will take anyone as long as they can pay and meet the criteria for residency, which doesn’t include having to be female.

Her middle name wouldn’t be Dotty, would it?

oh, my mistake. I’d assumed “Carey” was female.

His middle name wouldn’t be Dotty, would it?

In my family, both sides, the men outlive the women. We like ’em young!

Btw, Carey suggests the AHA favours women. A simple search on “men” on the AHA site reveals dozens of research articles about male heart health.

I visualize Carey’s elderly mom in a nursing home right now, sucking up ALL his money — or a percentage, say, 10%, that prevents him from buying that new Hummer he’s got his heart set on — and running constant guilt trips on him to boot. At least, that would explain his resentment at the idea that elderly women should be allowed to survive when all he has to look forward to is dropping dead of a heart attack five years before all the women his own age.

Tehanu, if Carey’s mom is still alive she must be one old codger. Have you seen Carey? He looks to be about 90.

You guys need to start doing a regular Two-Minute RenewAmerica post on this site, ferchrissakes… just to keep us peons up to speed with Alan Keyes and his Posse of Dingbats. It’s like Townhall.com refracted through the Weekly World News, then clobbered on the head with a pick handle.

Hmmm… wonder if Keyes tried to recruit Ed Anger for RenewAmerica’s Chucklehead Guild after the WWN shut down their presses?

(Roberts) was a professor of psychology-

Who knew Clown College offers a psych major?

Btw, Carey suggests the AHA favours women. A simple search on “men” on the AHA site reveals dozens of research articles about male heart health.

Lesley, in WingerWurld(TM) acknowledging the existence of any species besides Homo Heterosexualis Caucasoid is favoritism.

Remember, The White Male is the Bitch of Liberal Pimpsterism.

It’s a “retirement community”!!
Nice one, legalize.

Shorter Roberts: Old people (not me) should just die already.

Single women, elderly or not, have husbands to lose to heart disease in the first place?

Yes, elderly single people are more likely to go into a nursing home at some point.

Why is this so strange? How many elderly widowers ended up in nursing homes? I’ bet about the same number.

Sure, my step-grandmother (widowed) and my spouse’s nana (great grandmother, widowed) ended up in nursing homes before they died…

…twenty and forty years after being widowed, respectively.

But so did my other two grandfathers (although one is now deceased and the other has recovered and is living with family).

Nursing homes are, you know, where there’s more care available. Not everyone has someone home all day, or extensive medical training to take care of someone in need of special care.

Oy. That’s why we have nursing homes, and you know, money. So we can trade for things we don’t have. Like specialized care for people in need!