Everyone knows that no civilians ever die when We bomb cities! Just ask Dresden!

Dude, Hezbollah fighters often dress like civilians which means their corpses look like civilian corpses and its perfectly legit to point out that they are therefore often counted as civilian dead even though they are not.

CY is a putz but he has a point on this. Some newcasters assume anyone outside of a uniform is a civilian and it causes misleading reports.

He basically cherry-picked the numbers that supported his case. In the news estimates he cited, between 250-600 Hezbollah members were accounted for killed out of 1,000-1,200 total dead. So of course, he goes right for the highest number of of fighters and the lowest amount of civilians of all the possible accounts and then HURRRUMPHS!!! himself into proving that, once again, the MSM is on the Side of the Terrorists. It’s a tired game and he’s played it many a time.

Dear Cherry Picker,

I would dearly love the United States to wage war on Iran. I think this will be a better match up then the Iraq war. I am willing to subscribe pay-per-view as current news articles are rather tedious and boring. Bring back the glory days of the Gulf War I, that was gripping TV.

Your Couch Potato,
Prof Scrub
http://www.profscrub.com

Now that is an exemplary photoshop. It has everything. Tension, a mall, cammo, Daffy…well almost everything.

Shouldn’t that be a Subway instead of a Gap?

The sad thing is how myopic and stupid the neocons are re Iran. The current Iranian regime, while so awful it is difficult to put it into words, is doomed…provided we do not attack Iran. Attacking Iran is the only thing that will allow the mullahs to hold onto power.

If the neocons were truly concerned about our security, or about the longterm availabilty of oil, or our longterm interests in the region, they would be advocating normalized relations with Iran instead of war.

War would not only strengthen the hold on power of the mullahs, it would also drive Tehran further into the arms of China. The last thing we need in the coming years is losing more ground to China. Not for security reasons so much as for the economic reasons.

Which leads me to believe that the neocons are so interested in enriching their corporate buddies that they are willing to further erode our national security, our international influence, and our economy, all in the name of corporate cronyism. And I for one think we have had quite enough of that already.

Dagoril- yeah, but you’re discounting the fact that if America only shows enough willpower and resolve, Iran will disappear.

He should have said, “Iran appears intent on triggering a war that I think the United States should launch NOW, NOW, NOW!!!”

In the words of the immortal Master Shake: “Hurry! Before there’s still time!“

If we do not nuclearize Iran tomorrow, the Iranians, by like talking, breathing,and existing and stuff will continue to offend the delicate sensibilities of conservative bed-wetters here in the Homeland. We simply can’t have that. Nuking Iran will make Michelle Malkin, et al *feel* good again, so it’s all worth it.

The whole notion of attacking Iran is so absurd. Really. Iraq is kicking our ass, and it is like 4 times smaller than Iran.

It is extremely hard to fight and defend an Empire. Trying to has wrecked every major power in the last 3,000 or so years.

Maybe it is just the natural life cycle of a superpower. We’re just old beyond our years.

Problem in war is that once a body has been reduced to dead, mangled piece of meat, is it is awfully easy to spin that death however way you chose. Sure he was wearing civilian clothes, one might say, but he clearly had ties to and that means he was likely working for them. Or for that matter think that a terrorist was actually an innocent bystander… ’cause if a terrorist can be easily identified as a terrorist, he or she isn’t exactly doing it right.

Even granting that Confederate Yankee’s cherry picked numbers, one has to shudder at his singular ineptness at analysis. Most of the Hizb’allah fighters, (in order to be identified) would have to have been killed in the ground fighting. One wonders how many were killed by air and how many were killed by the ground invasion. Seeing as 1000 lb bombs tend not to ask if you are a terrorist before exploding, it would be a fairly safe bet to assume that the collateral damage for the former is not as rosy as Yankee would have it.

But then the AP faked those pictures of Beirut or something, so I guess my liberal fascist instincts are getting the better of me.

Dagoril, I think you don’t get it.

They don’t even think, much less care, about, “our national security, our international influence, and our economy”

It doesn’t even enter into their tiny little brains. Why, thinking about it would cause their already bizarre mentation processes to go even further amok and then their heads would EXPLODE!

Therefore we MUST attack Iran. And boy howdy, it better be soon. No later than say, October.

Time to trot out his little nugget:

i-Rack.…LOLzers

I love how one of his sources used to conclude that there weren’t as many civilians killed as reported is an article accounting for death while the fighting was still going on.

I am sure Yankster stopped counting American casualties in Iraq a few years ago when he reached a number he found suitable to declare success.

Well, it’s official: Torture is probably not all that illegal according to the AG Mukasey: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005177.php

Pretty weak effort by CY to whitewash what was very clearly a strategic blunder by the Israelis.

Doesn’t matter how many Hizballah fighters were killed.

Israel has, pound-for-pound, perhaps the most sophisticated, modernized military on the planet. Planes, tanks, smart bombs, satellite intel, heapin’ helpin’s of humint and sigint, plus all the support the wingnuts in Washington could discreetly feed them by way of imminentizing the eschaton.

Hizballah are a ragtag, sorry-assed militia largely pulled from the civilian population … armed with rifles and a bunch of spectacularly inaccurate missiles. The disparity of force is orders of magnitude. c.f David & Goliath.

Hizballah taking on the IDF is like me taking on a rhinoceros, armed only with a booger stuck to the end of my index finger.

Israeli forces were forced to pull back having failed to accomplish their goals. Hizballah is still there, arguably stronger than ever, digging in deeper, and applying the lessons-learned in preparation for the next go-round. They’ve demonstrated, yet again, that a determined guerrilla force can take a punch from an overwhelmingly superior force, roll with it, and effectively counterpunch. This is where William S. Lind would go all 4GW on our collective asses.

CY, please feel free to pretend none of this ever happened.

So we can update the saying to read, “There are lies, damned lies, and Bob Owens.”

Didn’t the IDF release a report shortly after the adventure in Lebanon detailing that, yeah, they kinda killed a lot of civilians? I don’t have time to look for it, but I remember reading it.

Lemme try Bob’s tactic out on his own piece. I think Bob Owens is claiming Ehud Olmert is Bousso’s bottom

In…Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert as…s…i…s AFP’s Ron Bousso.

HAH! I was right!

The only Figgy Fizz caps worth a damn are the twelve ounce ones. Everyone knows that.

Dagoril said:

“Which leads me to believe that the neocons are so interested in enriching their corporate buddies that they are willing to further erode our national security, our international influence, and our economy, all in the name of corporate cronyism.”

Considering that six of the twelve largest global corporations are oil companies and their combined 2006 revenues would have put them eighth (out of 180) on the 2006 GDP list (bigger than the combined GDP of Canada and Venzuela), I’d say that’s a pretty good bet.

Shorter CY: Just because every other Israeli military action kills mostly civilians, don’t be so quick to assume. In Lebanon, they may have gotten close to half!

Just to be clear, people usually try to justify this kind of military adventurism by saying, “it’s about the oil.”

My point, (in fact, my central point), is that if it were really only concerned about the oil, we would have normalized relations already. Because of the sanctions against Iran, they are not getting enough investment to even keep the oil flowing. They are already importing natural gas for their own consumption, because they can’t produce enough due to the state of the wells. Think about that. Keeping the wells pumping is expensive, and they aren’t getting enough investment to perform even routine maintenance on them.

It’s not about the oil. It’s about certain corporations getting unfettered access to the oil. And that the Republican party is more interested in further enriching these corporations at the expense of our international influence and strength of our economy, just sickens me.

And while Iran may be a threat to our energy security…it’s questionable…they are certainly no credible threat to our national security otherwise.

Wow. I am so not EVER going to the mall again.

Hey! Is that the Ron Paul blimp up there in the skylight?

Just to be clear, people usually try to justify this kind of military adventurism by saying, “it’s about the oil.”

My point, (in fact, my central point), is that if it were really only concerned about the oil, we would have normalized relations already.

Maybe. In the short term, yeah–if we just wanted oil, we’d make nice-nice with Iran and not worry too much about what Ahmadinejad wants to do. This is more or less our strategy with the Saudis.

In the long term, it’s a different matter. Iran, etc., essentially has its hands loosely resting on the US windpipe, and the US government knows that perfectly well. The long-term goal, then, is to replace anti-US thugs with pro-US thugs. This of course has never really worked out for us, but that doesn’t stop the US government from hoping.

And while Iran may be a threat to our energy security…it’s questionable…they are certainly no credible threat to our national security otherwise.

Buh-buh-buh-but, it’s FILLED with Iranians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN!

In the long term, it’s a different matter. Iran, etc., essentially has its hands loosely resting on the US windpipe

How, exactly?

The theocratic regime there is horribly unpopular. The unemployment rate there is officially around 14%…but in reality is probably between 30 and 40 percent. Ahmedinejad was elected on a platform of “stamp out the corruption”, and “fix the economy/unemployemnt”.He’s done neither. Instead they are chasing around women for displaying too much hair in public, among other things. It’s like the goopers concentrating on gay marriage while our economy goes into the toilet, and Katrina is drowning New Orleans.

Unlike here, the Iranian population is overwhelmingly under 30, and way more liberal than its government. The main thing stopping the people from overthrowing it right now is the threat from the United States. The moment we stop threatening them, the dynamic changes. The Iranians are playing us, to keep their own population in line. That they understand power dynamics better than our neocons do is obvious.

Normalized relations with Iran would postively impact most issues in the region. AND would most likely lead to the end of theocracy there.

American oil executives don’t want us to be able to buy oil from Iran, they want to be able to sell us oil from Iran. There is a key difference.

Before Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, and Hugo Chavez, our boys were drilling, pumping, shipping, and refining, graciously accepting windfall profits for the “developmental assistance” that they were offering to backward oil countries. All three nationalized production and subsequently became bloodthirsty dictators. Of course, since we already happen to be in Iraq liberating the people, the new government has been gracious enough to allow our oil companies back in.

Now that is an exemplary photoshop. It has everything. Tension, a mall, cammo, Daffy…well almost everything.

Except that I can’t help be nitpicky and wonder what a Royal Marine is doing there. What have my beloved bootnecks done to deserve this?

Of course, if a body in civvies might potentially be a terrorist. Then those terrorist bodies in civvies might just be civilians. In theory all those casualties might be 100% civilians!

Hey, my logic is no less flawed than theirs!

Lots of truths here, and that’s an important thing to remember. There are multiple variables in play, and multiple strategies on multiple levels. On the political level, a regime that needs to keep its population in fear in order to stay in power needs an external enemy to instill that fear. Dictators have known that for years. In this sense, amedinejad and bush need each other. For a while the neocons could generate the appropriate levels of fear of “teh terrorists”, but ultimately that’s too nebulous, and “teh muslims” is too broad. But with the Shia persians, you not only have an exotic, identifiable enemy to demonize, but you have one that is already somewhat feared by the Sunni Arabs. Plus, americans are still very bigoted as a culture, and there is political advantage in hating muslims.

Economically, it’s important to remember that we have reached a point where the available supplies of oil and the demand for oil have balanced. In this environment, even the smallest disruptions in supply can not only have a disparate impact on the price, but may well mean that somebody doesn’t get as much as they want. As the largest consumer of oil, it’s important to America that America dominate way those supplies are divided up. With an anti american regime in iran and venezuela, america’s economy is threatened. Since living in peace and negotiating in good faith are not american values, it’s much more important to overthrow those governments and install pro american puppets. When america dominates the oil supply, she can threaten and control other powers such as china and russia. When that control is out of american hands, the american economy is vulnerable. Same reason america works so hard to keep the overwhelming naval power in the gulf. If too much oil starts flowing in the wrong direction, those tankers aren’t going anywhere.

mikey

Most people call my style of posting links to original music blog n roll, rather than song pimping because I keep the links subject-relevant.

Today I’m having a bit of trouble identifying those points of relevance, but I stumbled across a way to the following link relevant when I saw Shorter Owens and Achy Breaky Heart as recent Sadly No thread headlines. So, I hearby offer my Shorter Buck Owens:

Four Quarters Gets Me 2 Buck Songs
words and music by Dr BLT copyright 2008
http://www.drblt.net/music/fourquarters.mp3

There are multiple variables in play, and multiple strategies on multiple levels.

It’s an MPORG!

zsa,

The War Nerd begs to differ with your takes on Hezbollah and on the IDF:

http://old.exile.ru/2006-July-28/a_hezbollah_upon_all_of_thee.html

Turns out the IDF is without peer at murdering rock-throwing Palestinian teenagers, but alot less effective when facing a well-armed, disciplined, determined foe.

And Brecher was vindicated by today’s report: the late ground offensive by the IDF led to their pwning by Hezbollah, with 33 Israeli troops killed.

Before Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, and Hugo Chavez, our boys were drilling, pumping, shipping, and refining, graciously accepting windfall profits for the “developmental assistance” that they were offering to backward oil countries. All three nationalized production and subsequently became bloodthirsty dictators.

additional to this, and another thing that really pisses off big oil, is that when countries nationalize their oil industries, or even just stop listening to the majors, they realize that the Production Sharing Agreements (PSA) they signed when they were thick and poor are basically highway robbery. Even the Iraqi’s right now are very leery of such deals, and the Kazak’s and Russian ‘shave only just started to realize ow badly they were screwed back in the day. It is an oil exec’s wet dream to have PSA’s for Iran, Iraq (and eventually Saudi and the Emirates) and anywhere else, as once it is in place, it’s like printing money. That drives a lot of the thinking wrt Iran. The reason the neocons don’t’ really want people based revolution, is that, in Iran, a 2nd revolution wouldn’t necessarily hand over the keys to the Oil Wells. Like Iraq, what they want is another bribable strongman.

That interview with CY is entertaining. I’m sure you guys have covered it but…

…What books have most influenced your thinking?

…Guadalcanal Diary by Richard Tregaskis, Journey to Ixtlan by Carlos Castaneda, The Stand by Stephen King, several books by John Gardener [sic.], the works of C.S. Lewis, Mark Twain, and Louis L’Amour, and the Bible.

Ordinarily, I’d assume that’s John Gardner, the author of, say, Grendel. However, in this case, I think it’s just as likely that he’s referring to John Gardner, the author of, oh, various James Bond novels and The Dancing Dodo.

That reading list, btw, explains a lot. I feel better for the CY. He’s not completely stupid, he’s just ignorant.

Why on Earth would anyone boast of having one’s “thinking” influenced by Stephen King’s “The Stand”?

Yeah, a follow up question along those lines would be interesting. Also, a follow up about the Castaneda might be interesting.