So… when a girl listens to my troubles, do I have to put out too? Or is this a one way thing? I don’t want to break any rules.

It’s a one-way thing, man. The only reason to listen to women EVER is to trick them into having sex with you. If you start talking about your problems, she’ll know you’re weak. THEY CAN SMELL WEAKNESS, MEN!!!! IT’S IN THEIR WICKED, BLACK BLOOD!!!!!!

I want to have that guy’s baby for sure. That cynicism and resentment is what all us women are looking for in the fathers of our future children.

I’ve never used a dating service — really! But a few of my gal pals have, and they say it is very common for the males to indicate they want only “financially secure” prospects. IOW, the guys do NOT want their nice portfolio to attract even teh hot babes who think of them as Platinum Mastercards.

Brad sez: The only reason to listen to women EVER is to trick them into having sex with you.

Um, one of my closest male friends whose shoulder has been drenched with a bucket of my tears, has teh ghey. Is he actually waiting for me to cure him?

You want a laugh, check out crap e-mail from a dude on Jezebel. It’s addictive. (Thers warned me, but did I listen???)

This one deserves a gold medal.

I have to admit though, that my favorite thing about this hypothetical, yet supposedly universal scenario is that the chick is CURRENTLY DATING the nice guy’s aloof friend. Yet she is still morally obligated to fuck him too.

I wonder what the good doc would think if her man were getting chummy with a female friend? Should he hit that?

Not saying anything about sour grapes on display, but 2007 is looking like a good vintage for whine…

Is he actually waiting for me to cure him?

Yes, Mona. Not to spill too many of the Brotherhood’s secrets, but pretending to be gay is one of our most tried-and-true strategies.

Whoa. That’s just creepier than a guy with a bad haircut, a nylon dress shirt unbuttoned halfway, a gold medallion, a half a gram of GHB and his uncle’s caddy.

The odd thing is I just don’t seem to run into these junior-league stalkers and serial killers. Can they hide their seething resentment, misogynistic anger and inflated sense of attractiveness and human value? Or do you only find them in places I don’t go, like World of Wartcraft?

Waitaminute. I just realized my nephew is one of these little shits. Ahhh, hell, now I DO have to go up there and kick his skinny white ass…

mikey

It’s taken me awhile to get the blow up and real doll market. All these guys want is a pliable body that has orgasms (not that latex can, but we won’t tell Bozo that) and a mouth babbling compliments about their dick.

Some of them really believe they can get this out of a prostitute i.e. that she’s not faking it. The level of delusion is unbelieveable.

When they rape and kill us, they’re punishing us for being three dimensional. They don’t like that.

Shorter: The only way a fella can get laid is to treat women like shit. Once you establish a relationship, he should continue treating his woman like shit or she’ll leave him.

The odd thing is I just don’t seem to run into these junior-league stalkers and serial killers. Can they hide their seething resentment, misogynistic anger and inflated sense of attractiveness and human value?

Oh come on. You never got stuck with the drunk prick at a party who wants to blather on about what cunts all women are? I know I have. Of course, they usually don’t try this if they know that I am gay. Gay guys can be cool enough, but their gender loyalty is always in question. They talk to girls, and not just for sex. Sick sick sick.

From Dr. Helen’s comments:

Back when I was a nice guy I thought it actually paid off, I married a beautiful nice girl. Then she turned out to be a cheating whore. Yep, I gave up being a nice guy after that. If women want guys to treat them like objects and to crap on them all the time, fine I can do that.

Yeah, ALL you bitches are gonna get it now! This dude is one breakup away from serial killer.

Women: Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.

Another bullshit stereotype that emanates from the mail order bride market.

This is too funny…no matter how hard I try to be a self-absorbed asshole, I keep getting jilted…

See, this is part of what makes me the enormous fag hag that I am.

Gay guys, when they like me, like me for me. They never lie to me so that I’ll have sex with them, they never try to play games with me, they never pretend to be interested in things I like out of the belief that it will make me sleep with them. When they pay me a compliment on my appearance, it’s because they like the shirt I’m wearing, not because they want me to take it off.

Here’s the thing I wish more guys understood: It’s okay to be attracted to the outside package. It doesn’t make you a sexist jerk if you think a girl is sexy, or hot, or you’re totally turned on by her big tits/small tits/blond hair/black hair/blue eyes/brown eyes/whatever – but if you aren’t ALSO attracted to the inside of the package, then just leave us alone, okay? Keep it polite, keep it professional, and don’t treat us like some sort of conquest. We can still be friends, honest.

“Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.”

Yeah, you wish buddy. God, I get such a creepy vibe from reading that.

I really only have a problem with him thinking he’s a nice guy. He needs to be honest with himself.

If you’re a hot woman with a male-friend (who isn’t gay), he wants to get in your pants.

The thing is, if he’s a nice guy, it won’t bother him if he doesn’t.

I know the assholes infect every stripe of american life- but, damn, people on the right side just take it to a whole new level, like the from the summit of Mt. Fuji level of creepy.

Women: Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.

But I thought you said that women like men who treat them poorly! Does not compute!

Man, I coulda used this info like 35 years ago. That’s one fork in the road I shoulda gone right instead of left !

Lesley said,
December 16, 2007 at 2:13

This one deserves a gold medal.

D00d would have totally got the love of his life last two months back, if only he hadn’t given up and quit like a quitting loozer with a mere 1/3 or so of his screed love letter finished.

I remember back when I thought like these douches did. But then I got out of middle school.

How do you say “virgin” in Japanese again?

It’s either “oboko”????? or “ba-jin” (?????. My Japanese isn’t advanced enough to know which one is the connotation you mean.

Damnit! My awesome Japanese text doesn’t show up here. Weaksauce.

Pretty funny (not entirely ha-ha funny, but anyways) he sees himself embittered because she fell for his ruse of being a nice guy(!). He’d like to blame his embittered self on having been dumped, but he’d need to have had a girlfriend first, and we all know the chances of that happening.

I’d click on the links and read the original, but I have to go meet my ladyfriend at the airport, and I want to feel clean for her…

What dbA said.

Also, mikey, I speak for the whole WoW-addict community when I say; “ouch.”

I used to be an asshole but I whacked off until I was kinda nice.

I remember back when I thought like these douches did. But then I got out of middle school.

Teenagers at least have the inexperience-and-youth excuse.

These fuckers are just deluded.

Wow, Lesley. That letter you linked to really is something else. I have never seen a guy so impressed with his own totally incoherent thoughts.

(Stealing from what I just posted at alicublog):

“These losers all think the world owes them a hot, sexy, loyal, subservient babe and they are angry that government and society won’t provide one. They all want someone to step in and rejigger the government/legal system/media to make them look more attractive, or to make women more desperate so they can get an “equal outcome for unequal input.” — aimai

From my personal experience (at arm’s length) with libertarian guys like this, it’s the perfect dovetailing of Marketing and Capitalism. On the one hand, they’ve been told by years of ever-more-flagrant advertising that they’re “entitled” to those hot sexy disposable InstaBabes. On the other hand, due to those larger forces that have made it almost impossible to support a family without two working parents, women have been given career opportunities far more enticing than “housewife” or “underpaid spinster schoolteacher/secretary/nurse”.

“Beta males”, as you call them, who aren’t paying attention to the subtext have been fed more promises about sexual access, while the pool of “beta females” within their immediate reach has been reduced by general female access to education, jobs, and birth control. Fifty years ago, a working-class woman probably couldn’t find a job that paid enough for her to live on her own, and she certainly couldn’t afford the college education or other technical training that would give her access to a higher-paying job. (When I was in parochial school, thirty years ago, several of my most gifted teachers were nuns who’d “found their vocation” more or less explicitly so they wouldn’t have to drop out of school.) And an unmarried woman who dared to be heterosexually active anyway was always at risk of being “caught” with the social stigma & economic destruction of an illegitimate pregnancy. But fifty years ago, a man who married an okay-looking woman from his neighborhood and then spent his productive years working at a series of not-exciting, frequently exhausting, sometimes dangerous jobs in order to raise their kids wasn’t excoriated as a “LUZER” who just didn’t have the balls to go for Donald Trump or Ken Lay or Dubya Bush levels of cut-throat buccaneering, among the prizes for which would come all those pr0n-quality hot babes.

There have always been Angry Male Losers who believed they’d somehow been cheated out of what was rightfully theirs. But the general sociopolitical trend of our recent history has produced a much larger pool of these guys (better educated, exposed to a much wider range of high-priced ‘toys’ they can’t afford) while simultaneously reducing the number of Not-White-Males that gave them an outlet for their resentments. It’s not just women that have gotten “uppity”; it used to be possible for even the meanest trailer park denizen/janitor to bless his good fortune at not having been born other than White Christian Male in the richest, most powerful nation Evar!!!1!! Now African-Americans, Hispanics, even the Indian & Chinese descendants of those pitiful orphans once used as an exemplar of why fortunate American kiddies should eat their vegetables, are competing with and often doing better than our Angry White Men. But while most of these guys are sufficiently self aware that they can’t complain in public about not being able to own their own slave, or even a few sharecropping tenants who’ll be properly servile for fear of eviction, bitching that ALL WOMEN ARE SELF-ABSORBED MONEY-GRUBBING MAN-DESTROYERS is still publicly acceptable. And, of course, the Republican party has been happy to use this particular form of dog-whistle politics to lure these poor suckers into voting againt their own self-interest in the forlorn hope that they were somehow “punishing” all those women and other not-white-xtian-men.

Because, silly as it may seem, sometimes the personal really is political.

That picture you’ve posted looks suspiciously like one of the Led Zeppelin Viking Kittens.

Anne Laurie said,
December 16, 2007 at 3:12

That was very good. Thanks for reposting.

All of What Anne Laurie Said, and my own $1/50 added:

‘And, of course, the Republican party has been happy to use this particular form of dog-whistle politics to lure these poor suckers into voting againt their own self-interest in the forlorn hope that they were somehow “punishing” all those women and other not-white-xtian-men.’

Much of the GOP appeal consists of this. Somehow, voting against their own self-interests ‘punishes’ me for being a big-city liberal, my sister for being an independent career woman, and us both for having good educations. It also ‘punishes’ our liberal college professors, our out-and-proud gay friends, successful immigrants and their children, etc. The GOP should just make it simple:

1. Vote GOP
2. ???
3. Bask in the glow of having punished liberals!

Not to depart too much from the snark, which I dearly love, but there are shy men who have a horribly frustrating time meeting women. I happen to be one. It took me years to grow up and figure things out, and I said and did many things I regret. That’s it for my defense of this moron. I never published my pity-parties. I eventually discovered that, yes, there are women who have awful taste in men, and for whatever reason I felt compelled to become involved with them. I realized that emotional connection is often starkly divorced from physical connection (sounds obvious, I know, but some of us are late bloomers. Be patient with us, unless we blog about it). This dork whines as if he is the only person who has discovered this. This is a man who is incapable of having real female friends, because he secretly wants to bone them all. Having once been this person (although never so publicly), I mix my snark with pity.

I second that – just read it over at alicublog.

Wow, anyone who can go for more than 12 hours maximum without sex just boggles my mind. Just saying.

And yes, if Skink were real, I’d fuck his brains out.

“This is a man who is incapable of having real female friends, because he secretly wants to bone them all.”

Dont think it’s a secret anymore.

Why are you a nice guy if you expect the woman to put out? If you’d rather put a cigarette out in your eye than listen to your buddies bitch about women don’t lend your shoulder to female “friends” because they have a vagina. They play themselves then whine about how cruel the world is. Yeesh.

Wow, anyone who can go for more than 12 hours maximum without sex just boggles my mind.

Izzat w/ an associate, or just promiscuous self-abuse? Inquiring minds want to know.

Jeezus. When did life get so conflated with TV and the movies?

People meet. Some repel. Some attract. Shit happens. People bond. Others don’t. Some fuck out of lonliness, some are just high. Some go down a path that leads to love. Some don’t. You don’t get to chose ahead of time. You have to play out the string and see.

It has worked this way, in one form or another, for thousands of years. Now, we have entertainment that depicts this as happening in a few minutes. Sure it does, but they can’t get you to watch for weeks, they HAVE to do it that way. It’s sad to me that the natural arc of human relations has been corrupted and sold as something that either happens in a day or will never. That’s fucking crazy.

Sure, sometimes everything just works and you meet someone and go to breakfast the next morning. That’s fun, and there’s nothing wrong with it. But more commonly, you get to know each other, and decide if moving to the next steps is what you want to do. It’s not like we don’t still understand this. It’s just sad that expectations have been artificially altered, is all..

mikey

Dear Dr. Helen,

Girls don’t seem to like me, even when I make it very clear to them how much I want them to like me. Why are all girls wrong?

Best,
Joe Propinka

Also from Mr. Ex-“NIce Guy:”

So, if you’re looking for a nice guy, here’s what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what’s right in front of you and grab ahold of it.

Why must it be called self abuse? If that’s abuse I want to be abused and frequently.

Thank you.

dBa said,

December 16, 2007 at 3:31

“This is a man who is incapable of having real female friends, because he secretly wants to bone them all.”

Dont think it’s a secret anymore.

True enough, until the next one.

“True enough, until the next one.”

I got the impression from his rant that there won’t be a next one. Apparently there’s a limit to how many times he’ll try to get laid by pretending to be a nice guy while a sobbing woman wets his shoulder.

‘Cause compassion just isn’t Teh Hawt.

Right?

mikey

oh so THAT’S why my Chinese boyfriend treats me so well…because I’m not Asian!

zython:

I THINK ???? (baajin, written in katakana) is the “you stupid virgin” one… not sure, though, and I don’t have my Kojikan raws handy to check 😉

And theese guys are just sad – yes, some women are stupid (repeatedly chosing guys who they know will mistreat them), but, y’know, the female gender needs SOME way to balance out the extreme stupidity theese guys (“they don’t reward us for being friends with having sex with us!!!!”) bring to the male gender ;-).

It’s also interesting that they are only interested in physical intimacy (while thinking that women are only interested in emotional intimacy)… and that all interaction between male and female is ideally a trade of one for the other. Which tells you quite alot about their general mindset…

Wow, Lesley. That letter you linked to really is something else. I have never seen a guy so impressed with his own totally incoherent thoughts.

Yeah, but what puzzles me is why the recipient spent two months with the dude! He must have been really crappy in the sack (judging from this paragraph alone) and he reminds me of dirty old perfessor men from my youth who tried to play the father card to get into their female students’ pants. Blecccccccccch!

First, let me say that this was the most interesting, unusual and pleasurable relationship I’ve ever had, but as it was pleasurable, the pleasure itself was a sort of poison I do not want to ingest again, nor do I even think I could, having developed something of a healthy immunity to it. It was also extremely illustrative for me. We are strange opposites, you and I. You are a rare female whose emphasis is on sensuality and I am a rare male whose emphasis is on intimacy. In many other traits we are diametrically opposed as well, judgement being an obvious example and another being directness, where you tend to be extremely subtle and and I tend to be extremely direct. This resulted in a quite unusual dynamic or power struggle, that could easily be described in terms of Jung, Hegel, Sartre or Crowley, but I will keep things simple, because at this point I earnestly want to be clearly understood, while before I both did not want to be understood and did not understand. I also should emphasize that I don’t really care what its called or how it is moralized. Sartre and Crowley agree for example that it is a paradox, but Sartre moralizes it negatively and Crowley positively. I should also be clear I am not in any way presently in love with you, though I did have very strong and irrational feelings for you at the time due to this dynamic.

“dBa said,

December 16, 2007 at 3:59

“True enough, until the next one.”

I got the impression from his rant that there won’t be a next one. Apparently there’s a limit to how many times he’ll try to get laid by pretending to be a nice guy while a sobbing woman wets his shoulder.”

You give this guy way too much credit.

Silly, Brad, Dan Riehl is allllllll over this one. Seriously.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/12/nice-guys-right.html

//Allow me to weigh in as “not a nice guy.” Get over it, losers. That nice guy crap is just the way you get in the door. Once you do that, if you aren’t hitting it by the end of the week, you move on. You might even end up in a good relationship if you’re lucky. Stop whining and get in the freaking game.//

Ladies?

Hey, I got a question for our distaff commentators. How visibile is this phenomenon? What I mean by that is, how clearly does this show through on a cat trying to pull the whole “I’m just being a nice guy so the stupid bitch will touch my penis” thing when he’s doing it? Is it obvious or do most hide it well? I ask because you never hear one of these guys say “Dude, the nice guy thing totally got me some. Works every time, brah!” It’s always some sad, pitiful bastard whining that even though he listened to the silly creatures wordy words, the selfish, ball-busting Source Of All Evil wouldn’t give up the booty, and thus, all women are teh suck. So the only thing I can imagine is that when a guy is actually thinking that “being a friend” is the same thing as a get-some-hot-monkey-lovin’ free card must just radiate it. Or these guys do, at least.

Another thought. If the only reason you’re “nice” to a girl – that is, treat her as an equal and friend and like she’s worth listening to – is to get into her pants, you are not actually a nice person and, thus, have nothing to bitch about, really, do you. If you’re a nice person and the girl whom you’ve given so much kindness to you fails to fuck you for whatever reason, it should not be an issue. In fact, you’re kind of a dick for bringing it in the first place.

Final thought. Like kmeyer above, there was a time in my life where I “nice guyed” on an unfortunately regular basis. What broke me of it in college was finding websites by guys that went on and on and on and on and on about those evil, evil women and how much they just fucking dirty goddamn you know I’m right arggg and so on and so forth.

Thought to myself, “Damn. I don’t want to be that guy.” So I decided that every time bad luck and my own dumbassishness led to some comedically heart-stomping embarrasment force on some poor female by Momma T’s red-headed boy and I felt like going “All women arrrgg”, I’d blame the Illuminati instead. ‘Cause it makes ’bout as much sense, don’t it.

Dude, I was in Cancun that week, I swear.

I lied. A further final thought. Have you ever read one of these guys and thought “Man. This guy comes off as a real catch. He really does seem like a full-on nice guy and not at all like a pitiful whiner and borderline psycho. I wonder why women aren’t keeping him from getting to work for all the nookie they toss at him, it makes no sense.”

No, you never do, do you. Never stop to think, do they?

Dood.

They’re mini burgers….

mikey

Noe haz cheezburgers?

but i kin stil has rite?????!!1!!?

I take it dinner didn’t go so well?

Lesley, some of those emails were amazing. Can’t say I’ve ever had anything like that, but then we didn’t have email when I were a lass (weren’t no electrickery, see, nor no computery thingamibobs, neither).

Have you ever read one of these guys and thought “Man. This guy comes off as a real catch. He really does seem like a full-on nice guy and not at all like a pitiful whiner and borderline psycho. I wonder why women aren’t keeping him from getting to work for all the nookie they toss at him, it makes no sense.”

Bloody oath. Well said, Matt. Makes no sense indeed.

I hate to break it to this guy, but he does somehow manage to land a Japanese babe with his winning moves, he is in for a real surprise.

Look, I’ve had my heart crushed quite a few times (some in ways that would boggle your mind). And yet I still let every woman I know use me as a sounding board.

Why? Because it’s nice to be nice. If you expect something in return..you’re not being nice. You’re trying to take advantage of someone who trusts you not to.

I’d rather have my honor than a reputation for being a double-dealing dude out for a piece of tail.

Just sayin’

Jeezus. When did life get so conflated with TV and the movies?

Sure, sometimes everything just works and you meet someone and go to breakfast the next morning. That’s fun, and there’s nothing wrong with it. But more commonly, you get to know each other, and decide if moving to the next steps is what you want to do. It’s not like we don’t still understand this. It’s just sad that expectations have been artificially altered, is all..

Right on, mikey. It is fundamental to my life-view that there is way more shit that we don’t understand than do, though we’re trying, and headed in the right direction. As you say, this stuff, this man-woman man-man woman-woman any-combo thing has been with us from the dawn of time, and being somewhat infinitely variable beings with infinitely variable lives along with infinitely variable external circumstances too much thought about it just strikes me as weird.

I consider myself somewhat of an expert in the subject. I was head over heals for my best friend’s girlfriend in GRADE school, and I was just plain and simple raised to be “nice.” And honest, and respectful. I didn’t get laid until my first love, Sr. year of H.S. WAY behind the peer curve.

OTOH, I’m on the upper end of the scale when it comes to alpha-doggitude.

I’ve been in love, truly, two or three times in my life at 48, not counting my first “real” *winkwink* girlfriend, but I’ve never been married and have no kids, even though I sure thought I would until I was at least 40.

Every woman I’ve ever been nuts about was really smart and strong, maybe because that’s how the (many) women in my family are, to go all Freud on you. However, I’m also sort of a confirmed lookist, which makes me misogynist in the hyperfeminist worldview.

I don’t worry about it so much anymore. I’ve reached that stage where I don’t pull any punches anymore; I joke the only way I could be married was if the woman was willing to be my next-door neighbor, or if there were two bi-sexual women in love with each other as well, so they could take some of the pressure off me by bonding with each other. I have a large, close family and most all of my close friends date back at least 20 years. I’ve never ever felt unloved, emotionally.

Bottom line? I’m a nice guy. But it takes a while for people, not just women, to figure that out sometimes because I’ve pretty much given up on any sense of pretense. Take it or leave it. I’m not all that good, or I’m really great, at first impressions. There isn’t much in between.

I like to be nice, because it makes me feel like a good human being. I do not like to be used or abused, and I most seriously don’t like my loyalty being violated. mikey, I’m not Hemlock when it comes to loyalty, since I haven’t killed anyone for violating it, but I’ve been pretty emotionally rough on those who’ve violated it.

Is it possible to be a nice guy and an alpha-male dickwad?

Could be…

…but in the end, what difference does it make? Relationships work or they don’t, and they come in all kinds.

And as to your question about life being conflated with TV, I have just GOT to recommend to all the very smart people out here an essay, “E Unibus Pluram,” by D.F. Wallace, ostensibly about the fiction writer’s grappling with the TV world we live in, but really the best analysis of TV’s impact on culture/life I have ever read, by light-years. An amazing piece of work.

TV dictates, trust me. Read it a few times and you’ll agree.

I was over at Amazon.com looking at phones and just found the perfect accessory to help any good conservative man land a relationship with the pure babe of his dreams. All he has to do is whip out his cell phone and when she sees this, she will know that he IS the one.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Cross-Motorola-Protective-Faceplate/dp/B000FN8DOC/ref=sr_1_64?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1197777025&sr=1-64

Look, I’ve had my heart crushed quite a few times (some in ways that would boggle your mind). And yet I still let every woman I know use me as a sounding board.

What’s implied in the “nice” guys’ beef is that women somehow don’t suffer, that our hearts don’t get broken, that we aren’t tender-hearted people who listen to and comfort others. Like zillions of women and men, I have had my heart crushed quite a few times and I’ve tended the wounds of several male friends. I don’t think of it as being used but as being a friend. That’s what friends do. Now, if someone is singing the same whine for five years I’ll gently suggest therapy.

It’s never occurred to me to buy a rifle and gun down a bunch of men in a mall or a school hall because “men ‘r evil scum who broke my heart.” Like most people who have two brain cells to scrub together I realize some men aren’t all men and some women aren’t all women and some human beings aren’t all human beings.

damn I’m glad I’m not single.

Kathleen, it isn’t so bad.

It’s just a different set of problems, in the end.

You choose and you live with your choices. *shrug*

I’ve never been one to have the girl crying on my shoulder. As the gay man who took way too long to come out, I’ve always been the one who sent the girl off crying to her friend about why can’t I get gbear interested in me. Then the girl’s whole circle of friends would be pissed at me. I’m much happier now that I’m out and all my friends are godless heathens.

My friends are my friends for a reason. They make me laugh, they call to make sure I’m still alive if they don’t hear from me for awhile, they offer to do things when I need it. kick my ass if required and they listen to my problems. In other words, they provide me with the things that are important for one’s well being. And part of that bargain is that I try to do the same for them.

Not once have I looked at someone and said to myself, “I need to be her friend so I can get in her pants”. That’s not to say there haven’t been those times when a friendship developed into more (and being fairly shy, it most often works out that way). But, I long ago learned there is more to life than getting laid.

I’m not sure if that makes me “nice guy” or not, but I hope it makes me a decent person–and a good friend.

Plus you stop chasing your dick around so much when you reach a certain age.

People will be there when I need them. I’ve chosen very carefully, and very well.

Link to the essay above:

Here.

Crap! What’s up with that?

http://www.amazon.com/Supposedly-Fun-Thing-Never-Again/dp/0316925284/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197778504&sr=1-1

Plus you stop chasing your dick around so much when you reach a certain age.

I think it’s more the case that you catch up to and then pass your dick.

LOL, gbear. Fair enough for me.

It is sort of a gradual, linear thing, isn’t it? For your teens and twenty’s, you’re almost powerless, but sooner or later you begin to exert some control. And your power, like the Force, grows.

I hope Mt. Fuji accepts returns.

I can honestly say I was never the same species as this guy, but I was in the same genus. It took me a fair amount of growing up to realize what a maladaptive attitude I had and put it past me, but I think I’ve done a good job of doing so.

This guy hasn’t learned – and I hope does, but I’m not holding my breath – that no one owes him a damn thing. Sometimes people connect, and sometimes they don’t. Apparently this guy thinks he’s the only one who’s even been disappointed by someone else not meeting his expectations (which are hard to meet if you, like, don’t tell the other person what they are).

John O – Have you read Infinite Jest? He plays that theme there, too…the whole concept of “subsidized time” with the “Year of the Depends Adult Undergarment” supplanting a mere number still slays me, disturbingly close to current reality though it may be.

Several times, Jennifer. I still pick it up and open it randomly from time to time to get a laugh and marvel.

One seriously crazy genius, Wallace is. Interestingly, I’ve found very few women fans of him, even though he’s not addressing gender issues at all throughout his work.

And yes, Infinite Jest, at its heart, is about people trying to gain control of a movie that is so powerful you die from watching it.

Of course, it’s 1200 pages with 200 pages of very funny endnotes, so it’s about a lot of other stuff, too.

I hope Mt. Fuji accepts returns.

Returns are sacrificed to Suwanose-jima.

http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/new/suwanose.html

I always recommend the book I linked to above when I suggest Wallace. It’s sort of a Wallace primer, in my mind, since several of the essays are just plain hilarious, one or two are beyond my intellectual paygrade, but most make me laugh hard and think even harder.

If you can’t deal with “A Supposedly Fun Thing I’ll Never Do Again,” I say, don’t even bother with “Infinite Jest.”

Man, doesn’t anybody know anything? You don’t get laid by being a “nice guy.” Hell no, the only surefire way to get laid is to sit off by yourself in a corner (at a party, in a club, at a coffee house, etc.), staring wistfully off into space, obviously thinking deep and meaningful thoughts. If you have a sketchbook or a notepad in front of you (or nowadays, a laptop) and you occasionally apply yourself to it as if you are creating the next major emotionally significant work of art to light up the scene… well, that’s just gravy. Believe me, this method absolutely will get you laid, guys. I’ve been using this technique for only 25 years, and I have a feeling that any day now, it’s going to pay off!

Let me put myself in these guys’ shoes. I can’t find women who are interested in me, or the ones that I do date end up leaving me. The ones who don’t leave me are shallow and unworthy of my affection.

This of couse means:

1.) I am doing something wrong.

OR

2.) Every woman raised in the west is a SCANDALOUS GOLDDIGGING BITCH!

I guess if you go into a friendship or a relationship with the idea that you are perfect, or if you have no freaking clue how interacting with people works, I could see how you would choose option 2 Otherwise it would seem evident that the likely answer is option 1.

For you non-Wallace people out there, “Eschaton” is a Wallace concept which is the name of an apocalyptic world-domination game played on a tennis court, at a tennis academy that is very much central to “Infinite Jest.” It’s way too complicated to bother with the details here.

That’s how/why I originally started reading Duncan. Had to be smart, I thought, to name his blog after anything Wallace wrote.

This “nice guy” argument is the “War of the Sexes” equivalent to the Ticking Time Bomb Torture argument.

It’s always presented as if it’s Clark Kent secretly adoring Lois Lane, except she longs for that commitment-averse Superman.

It’s a fucking myth.

I can’t speak for other people, especially people of the opposite gender from me. But in my experience, Attraction is a positive reaction, not a negative one. It’s not about picking someone out of the line-up, it’s about reacting to a connection.

When I was in the market, I was not out there assessing potential partners and judging them by certain criteria and deciding to eliminate certain individuals from the competition. For me the questions has always been – is the Spark there?

I’ve had rather more experience than is seemly, but I don’t think I’ve ever had a relationship – or even a hot moment – where a person’s income, future, family background, etc. made a difference in terms of sexual attraction.

I’m no hottie, although in my day I garnered a few compliments. But I’ve had some pretty good times with people who are neither rich, nor conventionally good-looking, nor socially prominent.

Of course, in my case – and I suspect in most other peoples’ cases – the main reason that the relationships didn’t endure was because one or the other party wasn’t ready to commit – to ANYONE.

I think in recent weeks I once posted about reading old journals – the Malibu fires made me go find things in the basement I wanted to save. My lovelorn writings are, viewed from a distance of 30 years, amazing for their ambivalence regarding romantic relationships! I surely did bring some fucked-uppedness to the table myself.

I’ve been married to the same person now for 21 years. I’m sure as hell glad we found each other.

I figured out pretty early on that I didn’t want to be the “shoulder to cry on”. Well, at least not if I was really looking for sex.

The two genders are pretty equally horrible to each other. I figured that one out pretty early on too.

Jeebus. After reading the link Lesley posted (Crap email from a dude) I can only say that I am extremely glad that email did not exist in the 70’s.

Yep, Me, just in different ways.

I don’t mean to offend anyone at Pandagon by saying that, btw.

The fact is, I would fuck Ann Althouse’s brown-eye repeatedly, felch her out with relish, and then sue her for hurting my feelings.

I’ve been using this technique for only 25 years, and I have a feeling that any day now, it’s going to pay off!

I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter, Sir. I think your technique needs wider circulation.

Okay, fuck all this touchy feely relationship crap.

What’s for dinner, mikey?

We’re having –
pork loin roasted with a spicy, sweet-and-sour glaze.
pureed celery root and potato with chopped celery root greens
braised brussel sprouts with bacon
Pinot noir.

And – yeah, I did the cooking, he did the cleaning.

Jeez, this latest Gary incarnation has a bit of a mean and nasty streak to..it. Can the management dispense us a new fake Gary from the Sadly, No! troll roll? This one is…nasty.

I ask because you never hear one of these guys say “Dude, the nice guy thing totally got me some. Works every time, brah!” It’s always some sad, pitiful bastard whining that even though he listened to the silly creatures wordy words, the selfish, ball-busting Source Of All Evil wouldn’t give up the booty, and thus, all women are teh suck. So the only thing I can imagine is that when a guy is actually thinking that “being a friend” is the same thing as a get-some-hot-monkey-lovin’ free card must just radiate it. Or these guys do, at least.

My personal experience? The genuinely Nice Guys with damp shoulders eventually get snapped up pair off with a woman who appreciates him (or possibly a man who appreciates him). And then they’re too nice, or too satisfied, to spend much time hanging around bragging about their success, because as the evening winds down they start looking at their watch under the table rather than getting into drunken ‘oh, the troubles I’ve seen and the bitches I’ve failed to lay’ competitions.

Part of it (again, I can speak only from my experience) is that Nice Guys have female friends, real friends, not just female acquaintances they’re hoping to bone or that they’ve gotten tired of boning. Women want their friends to be happy, and quite often even the most politically correct & avant-guarde women assume that pairing up for sexual purposes makes people happy. So, when an unbonded Nice Guy lets it be known to his female friends that he’s looking, we start paging through our mental rolodexes thinking about possibilities. (Hell, I threw several of my closest friends at the Nice Guy who eventually became my Spousal Unit before he convinced me that he liked me best.) The exact etiquette may have changed some in the last 25 years, but I suspect the general rule still applies.

Plus you stop chasing your dick around so much when you reach a certain age.

I think it’s more the case that you catch up to and then pass your dick.

It’s SO much easier being a woman. The aerobic workout sounds good though.

Asian women don’t go for maladjusted losers any more than American women do. Go figure.
I don’t want to be too insensitive here, but isn’t this why we have, you know, prostitutes? Although if he’s looking for something long-term, he might be better off looking into a mail-order bride.

He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he’d have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.

Umm, in my early twenties, I was a punk rawker who lived in a squat/punkhouse, didn’t have a job, my hygiene was probably suspect, and while I probably scored high on assholery, I got around like the plague. He just sucks.

The fact is, I would fuck Ann Althouse’s brown-eye repeatedly, felch her out with relish, and then sue her for hurting my feelings.

Um, Gary, when you said ‘relish’, did you mean with delight? Or with the hot dog condiment?

But, AL, aren’t you reinforcing the point by admitting that you tried to pawn off your spousal unit before he convinced you that he liked you best?

Why did you pawn him off until he “earned” your vote?

What was it before that kept you from moving on him first?

Too nice a guy?

I have to wonder if our latest fake Gary isn’t an unusually bright Althouse commenter (or some other trollish denizen of a similar site) who’s trying to stir up a hornet’s nest between S,N! and Althouse again. Because he seems rather, uhm, single-minded (not that our Garys aren’t always), and rather vicious with the language, precisely the kind of stuff that might give Mz. Althouse teh vapors.

Remember that guy who posted the homemade Althouse porn? Y’know, could be somthin’ goin’ on here, but then again it’s midnight here in upstate New York and we’re going to have a shitload of snow on the ground in the morning. I could be just babbling….

ALWAYS use a condiment.

It’s probably a bad sign when ya get a boner when a girl’s crying on your shoulder… but it’s probably just because I’m so damn lonely.

I haven’t been in that situation too often — I guess chicks pick off that creepy vibe I give off.

Aw, fuck, if I wanted a girlfriend, I’d probably shower, like, daily or something. That’s why I have my SN.

And photoshopped pictures of Ann Althouse… mmm….

Wait…

This resulted in a quite unusual dynamic or power struggle, that could easily be described in terms of Jung, Hegel, Sartre or Crowley, but I will keep things simple, because at this point I earnestly want to be clearly understood, while before I both did not want to be understood and did not understand

I’m not a philosophy buff, but is he talking about Aleister Crowley, the creepy turn-of-the-century occultist?? Who takes him seriously? It’s like saying, Jung, Hegel, Sartre or Krusty the Clown.

None of these half-wits is, or has ever been a “nice guy”. They use that “nice guy” shtick because they are too wimpy to express the true assholery of their souls without fear of getting the crap beaten out of them. And when their pathetic attempt at pretending to be “nice” fails to result in female adoration they have no choice but to revert to their true selves, now even more filled with angry spite. They are now safe to do so because they are big, tough wingnut bloggers now and none can stay their keystrokes,

Losers. You will NEVER get laid without paying for it.

Yo, Mamoset!

Strong words!

One of the nice things about being middle-aged is that women around my age are just as tired of bullshit as I am. I’ve never, nor ever will, paid for sex, and I can get it when I need it because women of my age now know a nice guy when they see one.

So there. You’re oversimplifying. Which isn’t hard to do in the wild, weird world of sexuality, so I don’t mean anything personally.

My lovelorn writings are, viewed from a distance of 30 years, amazing for their ambivalence regarding romantic relationships! I surely did bring some fucked-uppedness to the table myself.

yeah, amazing how the perspetive of 20 or 30 years does this. I tryo to but it to the bac of my mind, most of the time, but I sure did ring a lot of fucked-up-ness to the table back in the day. Sometime you do wish you ould go back and aplogise, but that was he 21 year old me, compared to the near 40 year old me

Women: Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.

Oh please. Aside from the fact that the summitt of mt Fuji is cold, nasty and overpriced (well the miso soup, anyway), the thinking behind that comment is all fucked up. I don’t even know where to start, but I would love to see this twat trying this shit with a Japanese women, fcked up wouldn’t even bein to descibe it.

It’s starting to sound a little like we need some sort of dating service for the SadlyNauts (Sadly, Match? Lonely, No?). Just think of the time we could save by only meeting people with a healthy appetite for SN snark. We’d have to have some sort of secret handshake, though, ’cause no way am I getting stuck with any of the Pie-Eating Hellspawn.

[…] it's like those hip musicians with their complicated shoes! « Losers of the world, unite! […]

It’s starting to sound a little like we need some sort of dating service for the SadlyNauts (Sadly, Match? Lonely, No?)

Kinda like Hanidate, only with social skills and high school diplomas.

STH – Awesome . R U HOT??

Here’s a “Nice Guys” link, with a healthy dose of STFU:

The truth of the matter is that there are genuinely caring, compassionate, decent, fun guys out there who have NO TROUBLE meeting people, getting dates, and having relationships.

Unfortunately, many of the guys who DO have trouble, insist on laying blame and asserting that women don’t want them because they are too “Nice”. These people who call themselves “Nice Guys” can’t see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem. Whether it is targetting women who are troubled to begin with, or acting in a manipulative, patronizing or obsequious fashion, these guys sabotage themselves and blame others for their misfortunes.

This section is devoted to the guys who suffer from that self-professed “Nice Guy” affliction. Here is the place to find out why YOUR behavior isn’t as “Nice” as you think it is…

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

And my personal life actually isn’t as smelly as I’ve portrayed it. It’s just easier to say it’s smelly to explain it. I have many friends, some of whom are doctors.

Ted Bundy=Nice Guy!

Jeez, can you guys please be a little clearer?

Just tell me how long I need to listen attentively before I’m allowed to whip it out!

Oh yeah? Well, did your jerk boyfriend have a cock like this? Go on. I’m a nice guy. You can touch it. What? What? You heartless bitch!

3:15 AM. I have approximately 17 more tabs open on the “Nice Guy” phenomenon. I am totally addicted. Must …. go… to… bed…

…because when the nice guys figure out how much Asian women LOVE US, you will be a long-forgotten memory.

Japan is littered with the wrecks of men who can’t land shite at home. Little do they realize, that once AGAIN, they’s being used – and used badly.

See how being rejected in Two languages feels…

Women: Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.

Oh, really? Some of the Cantonese and Japanese women I know have described Western men as being way too hairy and animal-like. Not so much a gift, really.

And “Asian men treat Asian women like furniture”? Who the fuck does this knobhead think he is? And just how much does he know about “Asia”? I mean, hell yes, they’re all just slanty-eyed furriners who gabble on in their heathen lingo and love them some Murkin men. Pig’s fat arse, matey-boy.

Hope you enjoy dating that two-timing, lying piece of human waste you call a boyfirend, because when the nice guys figure out how much Asian women LOVE US, you will be a long-forgotten memory.

And when the Japanese girl you’ve conned with your Nice Guy schtick realises that you’re actually not an heir to the Walton fortune like you said, you too will be a long-forgotten memory. Probably with an extremely amusing brush-off experience that will sting like a bugger.

A friend who’s lived in 3 Asian countries sums up her experience thusly: Hong Kong Chinese men are too damn busy to be clingy, Koreans are hung like horses (“they grow ’em big up north”, apparently) and tend to be dominant, while Japanese men are smaller in tackle but, like Avis, they try harder. I’m not sure what any of that says about Kong Kong, Korean, and Japanese women, but I’d suspect that Mr Nasal Whine Guy couldn’t get a leg over in any country but Cow Country.

Japan is littered with the wrecks of men who can’t land shite at home. Little do they realize, that once AGAIN, they’s being used – and used badly.

I don’t think it’s always a case of being used. Sometimes it’s more a case of Japanese girls partly having been fed a line (by the media) about how western men are nicer, and even more them not understanding the cultural cues these ‘Nice Guys’ give off–cues most western woman realize mean, “This guy is a crypro-misogynistic user! Avoid! Avoid! Avoid!”

Well, things work the other way, too. Many a western male has been unpleasantly surprised by how his sweet Asian cutie changes after marriage; something that wouldn’t suprise him at all if he’d bothered to acquaint himself with her culture.

One seriously crazy genius, Wallace is. Interestingly, I’ve found very few women fans of him, even though he’s not addressing gender issues at all throughout his work.

Oh, me me! IJ might be my favorite book ever. It’s the only thing I’ve ever read that created such an enduring sense of sadness that it was over once I’d finished it. Now if only I could think of some way to convince other people to read it…

I suspect when these guys talk about “asian women” they’re referring to women who advertise for husbands in more affluent countries. I imagine it’s a little more difficult to be more independent than your husband would prefer if you’re completely financially dependent on him and a few thousand miles from your support system. It’s that relationship they’re pashing for and not necessarily the race of the woman involved.

If you expect something in return..you’re not being nice. You’re trying to take advantage of someone who trusts you not to.

I’d rather have my honor than a reputation for being a double-dealing dude out for a piece of tail.

Astonishing that Dr. Helen didn’t make that point. Perhaps it’s outside her area of professional expertise.

Astonishing that Dr. Helen didn’t make that point. Perhaps it’s outside her area of professional expertise.

What, do you expect her to tick off her readership base of PO’d losers? She knows she’s found a good niche market in the blogosphere as the one woman out there with the GUTS to tell it like it is: ALL WOMEN ARE TEH EEEEEVIL!!!111!

Women: Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.

Aw, so cute. Like a little boy threatening to run away. “I’m gonna do it, I mean it! I don’t have a passport or money or even a suitcase, but you better be nice to me ‘r I’m gonna runaway to Japan and marry a Hot Subservient Babe an’ you’ll be sorry!” Maybe that’s why these putzes are so insistent that we stay in Iraq.

They’re thinking that once someone calls Mission Accomplished 2.0, Iraqi women will look around their busted ass country and want a way out, any way out, even if it’s 80 lbs overweight and has whole cheetos stuck in its braces.

How do you say “virgin” in Japanese again?

*looking it up*

“You got gum, Joe?”

I thought these right-wing types were all into the mystical powers of the free market? It’s simple supply and demand, as in guys who are only nice for pussy are a dime a dozen(and yes, it IS obvious), so scarce “prime cuts” don’t need to settle for chopped liver.

Women: Take note! Asian men treat Asian women like furniture, and Asian women look at American men like we’re gifts from summit of Mt. Fuji.

Well, I realize it’s asking a lot for these guys to have some sense of knowledge and understanding of other cultures. But he seems to be conflating all of Asia as one, and – in particular, to use his example of Japan – Asian cultures are extremely varied.

He also seems to be stuck in a timewarp. Perhaps he just got done watching an old rerun of “The World of Suzie Wong” or perhaps he thinking of Japanese war brides brought to the US from occupied Japan, or he’s just listened too much to his “Miss Saigon” original cast album.

The idea that young Japanese women in 2007 are pining for nice staid flabby Midwestern white guys is hysterical. Has he ever walked down St. Mark’s in the East Village? Has he heard of harajuku?

This guy’s acquaintance with Asian women is probably limited to ordering orange chicken at Panda Express.

also she might forget herself and start asking people to examine their motivations back home at the minimansion, and her lonely boy readers would have one more data point for the bitchez break up their marriages theory.

Mikey said:

“Jeezus. When did life get so conflated with TV and the movies?

People meet. Some repel. Some attract. Shit happens. People bond. Others don’t. Some fuck out of lonliness, some are just high. Some go down a path that leads to love. Some don’t. You don’t get to chose ahead of time. You have to play out the string and see.

It has worked this way, in one form or another, for thousands of years. Now, we have entertainment that depicts this as happening in a few minutes. Sure it does, but they can’t get you to watch for weeks, they HAVE to do it that way. It’s sad to me that the natural arc of human relations has been corrupted and sold as something that either happens in a day or will never. That’s fucking crazy.

Sure, sometimes everything just works and you meet someone and go to breakfast the next morning. That’s fun, and there’s nothing wrong with it. But more commonly, you get to know each other, and decide if moving to the next steps is what you want to do. It’s not like we don’t still understand this. It’s just sad that expectations have been artificially altered, is all..

mikey”

I just had to post that again. Because it is so damned wise and accurate. I hear so much complaining about how growing old sucks, but in those 3 paragraphs you have the beauty of what the passage of time gets you if you are paying attention. Thanks Mikey, I couldn’t have said it better.

This guy’s acquaintance with Asian women is probably limited to ordering orange chicken at Panda Express.

Or whatever “anime” cartoon show is popular right now. Three dimensional women might reject your sorry ass but Sailor Moon’s luv is 4evah.

Or whatever “anime” cartoon show is popular right now. Three dimensional women might reject your sorry ass but Sailor Moon’s luv is 4evah.

What’s funny about that is that is of the several distinct demographical genres of manga/anime, the one that’s received by far the least english-language distribution is the one for adult women. If thee guys saw some of that they’d know what Japanese women want to see from “nice guys”: them having sex with each other.

If thee guys saw some of that they’d know what Japanese women want to see from “nice guys”: them having sex with each other.

As a gay man, I can tell you that just like straight guys like lesbians, straight women seem to dig the idea of ghey sex. I think this is hilarious because I imagine large segments of the straight male population, despite having no qualms about lesbian fantasies, would be horrified to learn that their girlfriends might get off to a little, ahem, manly action.

I used to be an asshole but I whacked off until I was kinda nice.
How long does this treatment take to get results?
I’m asking for a friend, you understand.

I’ve been out of the market for close to 20 years now, so don’t think I can contribute much, but I found it interesting what a 20-year old girl told me recently (I met her while traveling). She was really thoughtful and held the strong view that videogames are an epidemic that completely destroys the abilities of today’s young dudes to relate and communicate with today’s young girls. She had invented a nice term for this, “vidiots”, and claimed that 80% of her generation’s males are “vidiots”…

Krassen, the Japanese actually have video games intended to teach “vidiots” how to interact with women sufficiently to get into their panteees. Remember ‘Larry the Lounge Lizard’? — like that, only waaay more explicit. The games are popular enough that satiric anime (cf Excel Saga, Genshiken) actually use them in Mad-magazine-style parodies. Obviously there is a hot market for some genius American developer to rip off re-design these Dating Sims for the current generation of American gamers…

(PS: I’m sure she was a lovely young lady but I know you didn’t give her your credit-card number anyway {/snark})

Plenty of hidden costs dealing with that guy.

Pretending to listen costs one fucking. Holding the door open probably costs a blow job under the table. Go shopping and coming over for a movie costs a lifetime of blind devotion. High priced services.

After seeing a picture of the Jeenyus Perfesser Dockter I can see why she pushes sexual favors as her currency of first choice.

videogames are an epidemic that completely destroys the abilities of today’s young dudes to relate and communicate

Your informant is confusing case and effect. Today’s young dudes have no ability to relate or communicate (same as it ever was). So they retreat to videogames, where there is at least an illusion of control, because interactions can be reduced to a set of rules.
No jokes about joysticks.

>Anne Laurie: (PS: I’m sure she was a lovely young lady but I know you didn’t give her your credit-card number anyway {/snark})

What kind of sick twisted mind would suggest something of that sort? (cash only)

Smut Clyde, that is a very valid point I haven’t thought of. Back in my days one HAD to somehow learn to talk to girls…

John O,

Hey, unless you are a wingnut blogger, nothing I wrote is directed anywhere near you. Yeah… I’m sick of whiny little creeps denouncing an entire gender because they can’t get laid (particularly when they are chickenhawks, to boot) and perhaps I let the venom flow, but it is only directed towards a very small subgroup of assholes in “nice guy’s clothing.”

I ask because you never hear one of these guys say “Dude, the nice guy thing totally got me some. Works every time, brah!” It’s always some sad, pitiful bastard whining that even though he listened to the silly creatures wordy words, the selfish, ball-busting Source Of All Evil wouldn’t give up the booty, and thus, all women are teh suck. So the only thing I can imagine is that when a guy is actually thinking that “being a friend” is the same thing as a get-some-hot-monkey-lovin’ free card must just radiate it. Or these guys do, at least.

Dude, the nice guy thing totally got me some. Lots of some.

Of course, too many of them came after I found the woman who totally rocks my world, and has for over 20 years, so usually I end up having to say no, explain that I really like my female friend, but that I am just a friend, and that she needs to find a nice guy who is single for her relationship desires, though I will always be her friend. Because while I still have many female friends, some of whom are not friends of my wife, I am married to the most amazing, wonderful, beautiful and kind woman in the world. And there is no hot-monkey-lovin’ on earth that could possibly be worth having to face my wife the next day.

But yeah, being a generically nice guy who was actually interested in what the women I met had to say, including that the men they were dating were unsatisfactory more than once turned into a romantic relationship. But mostly it turns out that the women who I like are women I like, whether or not they’re currently in pathetic relationships with terrible men. So I’m happy to listen to them complain if they’re in a bad situation because that’s what friends do.

Then I make them dinner and buy them ice cream and we laugh or cry about it, whichever seems appropriate.

But if I were the sort of cad who really wanted the hot-monkey-lovin’ more than I wanted the relationship I have with my wife? Yeah. Dude, works every time. Of course, if you were that kind of cad, you probably wouldn’t be around enough perceptive women for it to work. It can’t be effective if it’s a trick. But it can be romantic if it’s real.

(And I know that’s not a pretty comment. But it’s certainly my experience.)

[…] to the author, dovetailed quite nicely with all of the discussion going on at Pandagon and Sadly, No! in regards to the latest recrudesence of Nice Guy-ism. As “empowering” as Internet […]

In a better world, neediness would be attractive.

gmanedit:

You win the internets for today!!

Shorter this smelly idiot:

CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT