Your Monday Night Homework
Read both of the following passages, and decide which one was generated by the offspring of one of the most well-known American political philosophers, and which was generated by a person with an untreated mental illness.
Passage 1:
Plaintiff [redacted for the homework], appearing pro se, filed a complaint in December 1992 alleging a bizarre conspiracy involving the defendants to enslave and oppress certain segments of our society. Plaintiff contends she is a cyborg, and that she received most of the information which forms the basis for her complaint, through “proteus”, which I read to be some silent, telepathic form of communication. See complaint, at 1, and Affidavit accompanying November 1993 Order to Show Cause, at P g. She asserts that the defendants are involved in the “Iron Mountain Plan”, which provides for the reinstitutionalization of slavery and “bloodsports” (which she identifies as death-hunting [n1] and witch-hunting), and the oppression of political dissidents, herself included. Plaintiff’s complaint alleges a number of personal indignities visited upon her by defendants: “strafing of my dormitory room by planes and helicopters, the electronic bugging of my student rooms and apartments, deliberate noise harassment, blasting of loud rock music with lyrics designed for witch-hunts (music about social pariahs) . . . students following me around to prevent me from studying, whispering campaigns and social ostrification . . .” Complaint, at 1-2. Plaintiff also makes the following allegations against the defendants. Former President Jimmy Carter was the secret head of the Ku Klux Klan; Bill Clinton is the biological son of Jimmy Carter; President Clinton and Ross Perot have made fortunes in the death-hunting industry, and are responsible for the murder of at least 10 million black women in concentration camps, their bodies sold for meat and their skin turned into leather products. The defendants are also responsible for breeding farms, which turn out 2,000 black girls a year, who are then sold for recreational murder or as human pets. Additionally, the defendants utilize weather control and earthquake technology to threaten other countries that object to the Iron Mountain plan.
Passage 2:
A person facing directly into the giant central crescent of what was originally called the Crescent of Embrace will be facing 1.8° north of Mecca. Defenders of the crescent have used the inexactness of its Mecca orientation to dismiss concern.
•Patrick White, Vice President of Families of Flight 93, argues that the giant crescent cannot be seen as a tribute to Islam because the inexactness of its Mecca orientation would be “disrespectful to Islam.”
•Both major Pittsburgh newspapers are denying that there is any such thing as the direction to Mecca.
•The internal investigation conducted by the Park Service denies that there is any such thing as almost:
…mihrab orientation either points to Mecca or it does not … [it] cannot be off by “some” degrees.
All of this willful blindness about the simple orientation of the crescent structure has been effective in keeping public inquiry from reaching a second startling fact: that the crescent design also contains a hidden exact Mecca orientation, corresponding to architect Paul Murdoch’s own description of how the crescent structure should be interpreted.
What points not quite exactly at Mecca is the physical Crescent of Embrace structure (every particle of which remains completely intact in the Bowl of Embrace redesign). Connect the most obtruding tips of the physical crescent, form the perpendicular bisector to this line (the bisector of the crescent), and it points 1.8° north of Mecca:…
At the end of the Entry Portal Walkway [in the Crescent of Embrace] (marking the thematic or “true” upper crescent tip, according to Murdoch’s own description), sits a large glass block, inscribed with LAFD Captain Stephen J. Ruda’s dedication: “A common field one day. A field of honor forever.”
This will be the 44th inscribed translucent block emplaced along the flight path, matching the number of passengers, crew, AND terrorists. 40 will be inscribed with the names of the 40 heroes (despite Tom Burnett’s demand that Tom Jr.’s name not be used). Three three more will be built into a separate section of Memorial Wall that is centered on the bisector of the giant crescent (the exact position of the star on an Islamic crescent and star flag). These three blocks will be inscribed with the 9/11 date. Thus the date goes to the Islamic star. The date goes to the terrorists.
By having the 44th glass block mark the thematic “true” upper crescent tip, and by having that thematic crescent tip create a hidden exact Mecca orientation for the giant crescent, Murdoch is able to tie his Islamic and his terrorist memorializing design features together into a perfect bin Ladenist embrace.
Answers below the fold. No peeking, and no talking to the other students. Remember, there will be no grading on a curve!
Finished? Did you check your work?
First passage: From the demonstrably ill Terri Smith Tyler, in “Teri Smith Tyler, Plaintiff, v. James Carter, William Clinton, Ross Perot, American Cyanamid et. al.”
Second passage: From Alec Rawls, the son of the eminent political philosopher John Rawls.
Extra points to anyone who caught the hidden bonus question: They’re both obviously ill. The difference is that no one is taking Ms. Tyler all that seriously, while the same cannot be said for Mr. Rawls.
Additionally, the defendants utilize weather control and earthquake technology to threaten other countries that object to the Iron Mountain plan.
Cool.
I don’t know anything else about her, but from the letter in the “bonus crazy” links, Chrysandra Walther shines as the epitome of class.
I’ll get to this after I finish my algebra and honors biology. Those classes count homework as a higher percentage of the grade than you do.
Rawls fils is still at it? Good for him. It’s rare that a man finds his true calling. Had Rawls missed his, we might be referring to him as Bush economic advisor Alec Rawls.
Oh, man…..speaking of “earthquake technology”, I’d give almost anything for an online copy of Max Boot’s editorial column where he warns us all of the impending disaster to be caused by China’s earthquake ray.
Ok, help me out here. I’m just a dumb boy with a bad attitude.
The people building the flight 93 memorial would want to secretly honor islam because….
??????
mikey
I bet he hated his dad’s famous idea: the burqa of ignorance.
The people building the flight 93 memorial would want to secretly honor islam because….
??????
mikey
Because they worship Al’Gebra, mikey.
Whom the gods would destroy, they first encourage to read Report from Iron Mountain.
That first piece sounds like someone was talking to Nancy Ann Luft. She’s one of my all-time favorite online lunatics.
Seriously, x-ray, gamma-ray lasers fired from “sputniks” that somehow travelled back in time to help Jesus perform his miracles… and also somehow today cause her illnesses. And that’s just to start!
I’d say Ms. Luft and Ms. Tyler should get together, but in the words of Dr. Egon Spengler, “I think that might be extraordinarily bad.”
“…might be extraordinarily bad..”
Yeah – imagine a Twinkie filled with online batshit the size of Manhattan…
It’s getting harder and harder to tell the lunatics from the “sane”, when it comes to politics and teh public forum. I awoke this morning to a front page article in my local rag about a newly formed chapter of 9/11 Truthers, all four or five of them. Front page. Now, I’m trying to figure out why this is front page news.
Goofy is the new Political Discourse.
Max Boot’s editorial column where he warns us all of the impending disaster to be caused by China’s earthquake ray.
This involves the entire population of China all jumping off table-tops, and thereby releasing the energy of… ummm…
[one billion, times umm say 50 kg, times 1 metre, times g, ummm…]
Quite a lot of energy, anyway.
But where the devilish cunning comes in is that they don’t jump all at the same time — but rather, at carefully timed intervals, forming a phased array, so that the tiny seismic contribution from each Chinese dude all reinforce in a particular direction. They create a seismic pulse that travels around the world and converges at the desired destination.
That’s what’s keeping Max Boot awake at night.
I can’t believe that’s Lou Rawls’ son! You’d think someone with such a soulful dad would be more cool. He needs to find a lady love or something.
I love how carefully that letter-writer refrained from using the words “you fucking moron”. You just know she was thinking them.
Ah, Louis Wain. Classy.
Having just broached a fresh cask of Pedantry, I feel obliged to defend Teri Smith Tyler (Plaintiff). Report from Iron Mountain does indeed propose that a true peace-time economy might require institutions like slavery and “blood games” to take over the functions filled by war in the present economy.
If reading a work of satire and believing it as fact is evidence of insanity, then —
Excuse me, there’s some men in white coats at the door.
remember the controversy of the Vietnam Memorial? There were many theories about what the wall meant, although the artist who designed it was very clear in her intent..
the solution was to add a flag and a statue..
I know you had a last time
and a time before that
But now you’ve got it all figured out
You’re gonna get them off your back
–Tony Carey
Eddie Goes Underground
Some tough City
Oh, jumpingjesusonapogostickwithonionsandrawfries, he’s still trying to sell this load of horsehockey that we unloaded a can of whoop-ass on him over on Tbogg’s blog a year and a half ago?
As I put it on The Debraining Machine the morning after:
The crescent is not a universally-recognized symbol of Islam, there are only 40 glass blocks, the design was chosen by competition, not by one person, and even Mr. Wingnut had to admit that the “facing with Mecca” he made so much noise over is 2 degrees off, which over the distance between Shanksville and Mecca is a deviation of around 150 miles.
When these facts were pointed out to him, repeatedly, he would quickly switch to a new “proof” for his theory – and when the “proofs” ran out, he’d fret about our ignorance and “group-think” in disagreeing with him before he went back to “proof” #1 and started the whole cycle over again. He couldn’t even explain WHAT the big deal with the orientation to Mecca was to begin with, other than something about “Muslims seizing territory from infidels”. All in all, he spent something like 10 hours (!) running around his hamster wheel of spurious logic before he decided to leave.
I see he still can’t explain either how 150 miles of difference amounts to “pointing straight at” (which is what he originally claimed) or, in fact, WHAT THE SWEET FUCK-ALL this has to do with ANYTHING, even if it DOES point to Mecca (which it doesn’t).
Oh, BTW – Leonard C. Lewin, co-inventor of the salted nut roll Iron Mountain hoax, did a sadly neglected (and seriously out-of-print) fiction book called Triage based on the ideas from the hoax. Scary shit about a lil’ conspiracy of people who take it on themselves to thin out the human herd… (thank god it’s only fiction, though. Right?)
That “salted nut roll” comment was SUPPOSED to have a strike-through over it. Frickin’ HTML.
Jillian:
I think this is it.
To be fair to Max Boot, China has likely dropped the earthquake program and moved on to voodoo. It’s only a matter of time until Operation Bad Juju is put into action.
Report from Iron Mountain
Wasn’t that a Disney movie from the 70s?
Is it wrong for me to be amused by the maniacal, baroque, ratshit crazy maunderings of uninstitutionalized schizophrenics?
Because it feels so right…
I’m going to go wash with some Dr. Bronner’s Soap.
I read Report from Iron Mountain in 1977 or so. Until I clicked the Good Doktor’s link just now I had no idea it was a hoax.
I’ll never find, as long as I live
Someone as batshit crazy as Alec Rawls
I’ll never find, no matter where I search
Someone who cares less about him than I do
“James Carter, William Clinton, Ross Perot, American Cyanamid et. al.”
Et al? Who’s left? That’s everyone.
Re: the lesions below Mr. Rawls’ WFM: hickeys or Kaposi’s sarcoma?
Trick question, right? Those are both position papers from gooper candidates.
I knew I was right…what do I win?
Owlbear1 has a point… Report from Iron Mountain would make a good Disney movie. Something in the screwball-comedy genre. Preferably starring Christopher Walken as J. K. Galbraith.
So does this mean the Gathering of Eagles doesn’t have to protect this memorial from hippies?
Oh for Chrissakes,now everything that faces East is gonna be some insideous Crypto-Islamic plan to take away our freedommmmssss glurp,gloop,gurgle,sploootch…
One of the funniest Liberal Avenger comment threads of all time resulted from their post on crazy Alec’s ideas: (http://www.haloscan.com/comments/liberalavenger/112631317630263838).
There was also a hilarious TBogg comment thread on it. Sadly, that seems to ahve gone the way of the dodo. Does the wayback machine save Haloscan threads? It was on this post.
Crescent,or semi-circle.The controversy continues….
I hate to mention it, but Iron Mountain is shaped like a crescent facing toward Mecca!!!
If I had only known that being a insane idiot pays well, my career might have taken a completely different direction.
Re: the lesions below Mr. Rawls’ WFM: hickeys or Kaposi’s sarcoma?L
Razor bumps. He’s too vain to just give up & let his neckbeard grow out.
Funny thing is, I just re-read my original copy of Triage. It’s aged better than a lot of the near-future apocolyptic fiction from that period, mostly because Americans keep making the same halfwitted political decisions over & over & over again. In fact, some of the “horrifying” ideas in 1972… stuff like a big corporation deliberately releasing a product guaranteed to kill millions of people, because the potential profit was greater than the corporate interest in a lot of mostly poor and/or non-American victims… can no longer be considered as fiction. Which is the really horrifying part, of course.
And IIRC, Escape from Witch Mountain was a kid’s book, later a Disney film, about a couple of adorable little alien children trying not to be captured and subjected to extraordinary rendition. I mean, extraterrestial-type alien children, because It’s Not Right to Torture or Kill People Just Because You Suspect They Know Stuff You Don’t. Catch a good Amurkin corporation releasing suspect crapoloa like that in today’s climate, no way!
Doodle-Bean,
Wayback has it. Halfway through you almost start to feel sorry for the guy.
Four Ordinal Directions on the Compass Rose,He choose one,coincidence???
RCP said, “To be fair to Max Boot, China has likely dropped the earthquake program and moved on to voodoo. It’s only a matter of time until Operation Bad Juju is put into action.”
Operation Bad Juju 2.1 initiates with China holding much of our debt and continues with China’s purchasing shares of Bear Stearns.
I’m a little nostalgic for the simpler seismic destruction.
Thanks so much for the Wayback pointer. Without it I’d never have found the quote
“For a woman, fighting against an invader also risks death, but surrender offers much better reproductive prospects for women than for men. A woman’s reproductive capacity is part of the booty, often the primary booty, that invaders have always been after.”
Well, if she’d stop shakin’ her booty that way, maybe the invaders wouldn’t keep goin’ after it.
Off by 1.8 degrees is the same as pointing at Mecca? I’ll bet he drives his golf buddies nuts with all the mulligans he must take. The letter from Chrysandra Walther is great. Things either point to Mecca or they don’t, it’s really pretty simple. None of that even considers why it would matter if it actually did point to Mecca.
Halfway through you almost start to feel sorry for the guy.
Not really.
Wasn’t that excellent cat painting behind that chap, generated by someone locked in a rubber room with restraints? Thought the cats were coming to get him, poor chap.
Meanwhile, Rawls looks like something the cat played with for a VERY long time before leaving it on the mat in a fit of disgust. A hissy fit, at that.
WTF? They’re STILL on this? Getting desperate for talking points I guess.
I love those freaky cat pictures.
Sweet Jesus. As an occasional cartoonist/illustrator, I think this must be Crazy Alec’s most heinous crime of all:
http://www.rawls.org/Rebel-Yell_Nips+Japs.htm
I can’t believe that’s Lou Rawls’ son!
My poor coffee-covered keyboard…
I once spent a day reading a book detailing 60 supposed conspiracies throughout history. That night I had trouble going to sleep because I was wondering if the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg Group knew that I was aware of their schemes. The next morning I was back to normal (probably because I was injected with a mind control serum). What was scary to me though was the realization that my temporary feeling of paranoia caused by 300 pages of conspiracy theories is the daily and permanent mindset of people like Rawls and Tyler.
Thanks for the wayback link, ghilton!!
The cats were drawn by a guy with schizophrenia, Louis Wain. As he got worse the pictures got more and more bizarre: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nbb421/student2003/epl8/Blank%20Page%202.htm
Schizophrenia is kind of scary
Thanks for the wayback link, ghilton!!
Double hanks!
now I can revel in my wit from that night:
THIS is the bug up your ass?
They’re “claiming territory”?
*guffaw*
yes, this will be their beachead for the Great Islamofascist Invasion of America…
*snort* *guffaw*
fruitloop.
Pere,
‘That night’?!?! It went on for days as I recall. Some people kept coming back for days. IIRC, someone wrote that it was like a train wreck — she couldn’t stay away!
I’m most proud of finding the double crescent on the new 2 cent stamp for making up the postal increase which was going into effect around that time…
Ah, good times! Good times!
I’m particularly proud of these as well:
they have built the world’s largest mosque on the crash site
Yes, Alec, I’m sure it will soon be full of ullulating Islamofascists praying to their Satanic gods and cheering their success at their clever infiltration of a Sacred Holy 9/11 Jesus-Bush-America site. Just remember to take off your shoes when entering soverign Islamofascist territory, or they’ll saw your head off!
(That’s sarcasm, by the way, since you evidently have trouble telling.)
and
Obviously our only hope is if we build a giant cross in Iraq pointing toward the Pentagon. Only then will the evil psycho-Islamic radiation from the giant feminist crescent-abomination be stopped, and we will be saved from turning into feminzed terroristical girly-men Islamofascists.
It’s a shame Mr. Rawls is too busy to stop by this comment thread as well. It’d be fun to abuse him again.
Am I the only person who has noticed that for several days of the month, the moon is in the shape of a crescent that points east, in the exact direction of Mecca? This is clearly part of a crypto-Islamofascist plot involving NASA, the moon people and all those jumping cows. The world must be told the truth!
Non nato, not to take his illness lightly, but as he got worse his paintings became quite beautiful.
Now that’s scary.
As for this Rawls character, I remember the Tbogg thread. This guy is certifiable. Off to the booby hatch with him.
How many times do y’all think Ms. Walther rewrote that letter?
“…you bugfuck crazy…” [sound of backspace key pressed repeatedly] Oh no, that won’t do…
Well, i just read Alec’s comic-strip kiki linked to, and I gotta say that’s a pretty impressive lack of talent. Really, it’s almost admirable in a way.
He reminds me of Alex Constantine. Has he made any appearances on Coast to Coast AM?
speaking as a crazy person with a face mullet, i find Alec Rawls offensive. now if you will excuse me i have to go fake a plane crash to cover up an interdimensional time travel conspiracy.
Well, i just read Alec’s comic-strip kiki linked to, and I gotta say that’s a pretty impressive lack of talent. Really, it’s almost admirable in a way.
That was incredible. The guy draws more poorly than I do, and I thought I was pretty much at the bottom end of the scale. I’ve always thought that basic decency required me to avoid subjecting the world to my horrible scribbles, but now I don’t know. There really is something impressive about being so utterly shameless.
Pere,
Thanks to the wayback machine I see you made the points I made above at Tboggs. Only you made them directly to the nutjob (not Tbogg) and better. You are rightfully proud of how you dealt with him there. One thing that this makes me think about though is the way rightards try to box us progressives into a corner. If we get upset and attack or ridicule (which is why I come to this site as well as Roy’s and Tbogg’s) we are “unhinged” or “uncivil”. If we are polite, and try to engage in civil discourse they claim we are “feminized” or “wimpy”. I don’t know if any of you have ever seen “Time Bandits” but I say we should start treating them like Robin Hood’s Merry Men deal with the poor. What we should do is, as soon as we hear some idiot speaking the Limbaughese, we should just sucker punch them in the face. Just blam! Ok, that might be extreme but it would certainly get their attention. I know, I know, I can hear the wingnuts already, “Try that with me and I’ll shoot you with my Glock or blow up your Federal Building or something.”
I’d post a longer comment, but it’s hard to type while hunched over on a small carpet. Maybe later.
Pere Ubu,
Thanks to the wayback machine I see you made the points I made above at Tboggs. Only you made them directly to the nutjob (not Tbogg) and better. You are rightfully proud of how you dealt with him there. One thing that this makes me think about though is the way rightards try to box us progressives into a corner. If we get upset and attack or ridicule (which is why I come to this site as well as Roy’s and Tbogg’s) we are “unhinged” or “uncivil”. If we are polite, and try to engage in civil discourse they claim we are “feminized” or “wimpy”. I don’t know if any of you have ever seen “Time Bandits” but I say we should start treating them like Robin Hood’s Merry Men deal with the poor. What we should do is, as soon as we hear some idiot speaking the Limbaughese; we should just sucker punch them in the face. Just blam! Ok, that might be extreme but it would certainly get their attention. I can hear the wingnuts now, “Try that with me and I’ll shoot ya, or blow up your Federal Building or something.”
This “Iron Mountain Plan” – never heard of it until now. What a fascinating trip through past conspiracy theories and satires gone wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Report_From_Iron_Mountain
Why am I not at all surprised that Dick Cheney was quoted in 1993 as follows:\
“Well, we were so sick and tired of killing black girls. We just had to put some variety back into our death-hunting industry. And they (Persians) are incredibly beautiful. The beauty of the face heightens the pleasure of the kill. I know of no higher pleasure than the gang-rape of exceedingly beautiful people.”
Oh, Dick. The more things change, the more they stay the same I see.
Dear moonbats:
I saw from the small accumulation of ad hominem vacuities on some of my posts this morning that some leftists must be visiting, but I know you much prefer to stay in your own demesnes and talk to each other, so I thought I’d be neighborly and come on over and offer to ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS any of you might have about my conspiracy theory.
Yes there really are such things as conspiracies. Any of you remember 9/11, when those 19 Arab CONSPIRATORS hijacked the airplanes. (I’m being specific because I know a lot of you think that 9/11 was a Bush administration conspiracy.)
I am wondering what you all think is non-sensical about what the sad one quoted in the body of his post. Do you not believe that the giant crescent is oriented on Mecca, or is it that you think it doesn’t matter?
Why don’t we take it step by step. Is anyone willing to check on FACT ONE (the Mecca orientation of the giant crescent) and report back on your fact checking?
Just go to Islam.com and use their ,Mecca direction calculator to get a graphic of the direction to Mecca from Somerset PA. Print it out and place it over the Crescent site plan on you computer screen to see that the Mecca direction line approximately bisects the crescent.
I was even able to get a reporter to do it, and they are even more averse to fact checking than you are. Took him two minutes.
You know, as bad as that cartoon of Rawls’ is, I’ve seen stuff that bad that actually got published. In a major newspaper, yet. Wayne Stayskal used to be the editorial cartoonist for the Tampa Tribune, for like 20 years or something.
http://www.comicspage.com/stayskal/
Seriously.
Is it irresponsible to speculate that Dick Cheney’s ultimate fantasy is to watch the gang-rape of Iranian women?
Scrolled down super fast to avoid reading the answer:
That sounds more like the Shrieking Harpy than anyone else.
Alex:
“to see that the Mecca direction line approximately bisects the crescent.”
So… You’re saying that it doesn’t line up with Mecca, then? Coz’ there’s this word “approximately” there… See, it either lines up or it doesn’t. Binary. Either/or. Yes/No, True/False, -1/0. And if it only “approximately bisects”, as you have so kindly pointed out, then, well… it doesn’t line up.
‘scuse me… Alec, not Alex. My bad.
But it still doesn’t line up.
Hi Alec! Still crazy after all this year, I see. Let the games begin!
Static:
As quoted by the sad one above, my claim is that: “a person facing directly into the giant central crescent of what was originally called the Crescent of Embrace will be facing 1.8° north of Mecca.”
The position you have stated: “it either lines up or it doesn’t. Binary. Either/or. Yes/No, True/False, -1/0.” is the position that I am quoted above describing as willfully blind.
The Memorial Project’s phony internal investigation concluded that: “mihrab orientation either points to Mecca or it does not … [it] cannot be off by ‘some’ degrees.”
Is this your position as well, there is no such thing as “almost,” that things “cannot be off by ‘some’ degrees”?
I am sure if you think about it, you will concede that things CAN be off by ‘some’ degrees. If you shoot at a target, you most certainly can hit the 9 ring, or the 5 ring. Bullets that do not hit the bullseye do not cease to exist.
So what are you saying? Are you saying that so long as the crescent is not pointed exactly at Mecca there is nothing to be concerned about? Does that mean you WOULD be concerned if the crescent DID point exactly at Mecca?
Hi Alec,
So what if it exactly lines up? That doesn’t make it a mosque nor Islamic site. That doesn’t make it holy at all. If it did, there are several problems:
– People will be wearing shoes when entering the ‘mosque’
– People will not ceremonially wash before entering the ‘mosque’
– People are likely to eat, talk and even have physical contact with each other inside the ‘mosque’ (even physical contact between – gasp – members of the opposite sex!). It is a large, open park after all.
– There is no straight line such as a straight wall or flat back to a mihrab which orients people to pray in the right direction.
So, who cares if it faces or doesn’t face Mecca? It makes no difference at all. And the orientation is no evidence whatsoever of any conspiracy except for that of the bad neurochemicals inside your skull. You know there are medications for that kind of thing, right?
Attention Alec:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking
Hi Doodle-bean:
“So what if it exactly lines up? That doesn’t make it a mosque nor Islamic site.”
Yes it does. A crescent that Muslims face into to face Mecca is called a mihrab and is the central feature around which every mosque is built.
It has to be intentional. An unintentional orientation on Mecca does not create a mosque any more than an unintentional crossing of two lines creates a Christian cross. But the crescent design includes numerous proofs of intent.
As you note, the people who chose a crescent for the crash site thinking that it would create healing with the Islamic world are not likely to get their wish. There will be conflict between Muslims over whether this is a proper mosque, given its numerous terrorist memorializing features, and those who do see it as a mosque will not be happy to see it defiled by infidels at all, never mind wearing shoes, intermingling the sexes, etcetera.
QUESTION FOR BUBBA: Can you name a single statement I have made that is factually inaccurate? YOU are the one who is engaging in “magical thinking.” You think that you can pass judgment on the accuracy of a claim without looking at the facts. I wonder if you CAN make an argument. Find me an item of reason or evidence that I have put forward that you can even quibble about in a rational way.
QUESTION FOR BUBBA:
Here’s an answer.
I read that Tbogg thread and felt bad for you. You have issues and people can help.
Hi Alec,
No, it doesn’t. No, a mihrab is rarely a crescent and a mihrab orients worshippers exactly toward Mecca. And please do not put your craziness into my words. My point was that nobody would design a ‘mosque’ which would be defiled on a daily basis unless they wanted to defile Islam. That kills your theory that there was some sort of conspiracy to honor the hijackers.
As for your prediction, that is not likely to happen. Some Muslims, just like some people, will like the Memorial and see it as a fitting tribute. Some other Muslims, just like some other people, will have various problems with it. But only the crazy people will read all this kind of meaning into a bowl shapped memorial park.
You have no hard evidence to assert any of your claims nor make any of your predictions. For example, how does a coincidence of direction prove intention? To make that claim, you are wise to have supporting data and evidence. You have neither.
As for your response to Bubba, it serves as an excellent example of arguing analogically as opposed to logically. You are comparing bullets or dart to prayers. That comparision is just nonsensical.
Muslims take the direction in which they are facing when they pray quite seriously. As the Park Service told you, being off by a couple of degrees is not acceptable. The orientation of the crescent is thus not that of a mosque, mihrab or any other Islamic object. You are delusional to think it is. There are medications for that kind of mental disorder, you know.
I don’t know if this is intentional on Alec’s part (and, you know, I kind of think not) but the mirhab in his example above – the Great Mosque in Cordoba – doesn’t point in the direction of Mecca either. Which I guess means Paul Murdoch must have been busy not orienting things to the Kaaba way back in the 6th century as well.
Doodle-bean now thinks that he is an expert on Islam, claiming that Mecca direction indicators must be exactly oriented on Mecca. This is wrong.
Any Muslim knows that a Mecca-direction indicator does NOT have to be exact, because traditional Islam follows the example of Muhammad, and every Muslim knows that Muhammad’s mosque was not exactly oriented on Mecca. It was originally built to face Jerusalem.
Only later in his career did Muhammad order his followers to change their qibla direction (their prayer direction) to face the Kaaba in Mecca. In his own mosque, Muhammad just switched the mihrab from one end of his mosque to the other, which had not been built to face Mecca. Thus when Muslims are looking for a suitable place to pray, they are allowed to face any wall that leaves them facing even very roughly towards Mecca.
Practicing Muslims are all well aware of this allowance, because they have to avail themselves of it every day.
“You have no hard evidence to assert any of your claims nor make any of your predictions.”
What an absurd comment. You are making ignorant excuses about it is not necessary to look at my information, then making ignorant claims about my information.
You people have no idea what reason and evidence are. Look at Bubba. Asked to come up with something that is innacurate in what I have said, he again waves his hands. I don’t think Bubba knows what reason and evidence are.
Any Muslim knows that a Mecca-direction indicator does NOT have to be exact, because traditional Islam follows the example of Muhammad, and every Muslim knows that Muhammad’s mosque was not exactly oriented on Mecca. It was originally built to face Jerusalem.
Only later in his career did Muhammad order his followers to change their qibla direction (their prayer direction) to face the Kaaba in Mecca. In his own mosque, Muhammad just switched the mihrab from one end of his mosque to the other, which had not been built to face Mecca. Thus when Muslims are looking for a suitable place to pray, they are allowed to face any wall that leaves them facing even very roughly towards Mecca.
It appears we are arguing with a lunatic here…
Linus,
Ya think?!?!?!?
:o)
So what are you saying? Are you saying that so long as the crescent is not pointed exactly at Mecca there is nothing to be concerned about? Does that mean you WOULD be concerned if the crescent DID point exactly at Mecca?
No, I’m saying “Isn’t that nice.”
I don’t think Bubba knows what reason and evidence are.
I dunno, Occam’s Razor is not an infallible device, but it leads one to conclude you’re a nut before one concludes that Islamofascists are acting in secret to turn a memorial into into a mosque.
Your doctor can help.
What I am saying is that a crescent oriented within 1.8 degrees of Mecca is plenty accurate enough to make for a proper mihrab. What is hard to understand about that? Does Linus have an I.Q. of 6?
Is anyone else reading who has at least a little bit of a capacity to think straight? Something besides a completely stupid evasion please.
Does Linus have an I.Q. of 6?
I dunno, Alec. Have you thought about getting professional help? The letter-writer from the Park Service essentially told you that you are harassing her and her employees and the Flight 93 families with your sick obsessions. You need help.
You are a child Linus, saying “nyah nyah” with your hands over your ears.
The proper course of action depends on what the facts are. You want to assume things about the facts instead of looking at them.
At least Doodle-bean is making some kind of argument, repeating the position of Patrick White quoted in the post: that the Mecca orientation of the giant crescent cannot logically be seen as a tribute to Islam because the inexactness of it would be an insult to Islam.
Actually, it wouldn’t be an insult to Islam, but at least the thought is logical, even if it is based on an errant understanding of Islam. It is something we can proceed from.
“Is anyone else reading who has at least a little bit of a capacity to think straight? ”
Well, yes, thank you; I believe I qualify. You’re a loon. Your fantasy is not even wrong. However, I think you might be able to save yourself. I suggest that you catalog all of the public spaces and structures in the U.S. that orient within 1.8 degrees of Mecca, and show that they are all mosques, and then dance feverishly about yelling “See, see, toldja, toldja.” Oh, and shut up until you’re done.
a proper mihrab
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_line
Ahh, but the mirhab that’s… that’s where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with… geometric logic… that the mirhab DID exist,
Rawls:
Who (& more importantly how) is behind this vast conspiracy? I mean, what’s the point, how did they get to the designer, etc.? Is Bin Laden going to be sitting in his cave chuckling over the “good one” he sneaked over on the Americans? Or is some imam somewhere going to announce this “fact,” that it’s a “secret mosque,” which would probably result in the whole thing being torn down or re-oriented, or something? Seriously, what, why, & how? Not that any one w/ a lick of sense believes that it really is some sort of “secret mosque,” but you only seem interested in proving that it points (sort of) to Mecca, & is vaguely crescent-shaped. Some background, please, or further explanation of this vast conspiracy.
R. Bubba: Don’t be mocking my one-time close personal acquaintance Alex Constantine. He’s on our side in the war against fascism. As opposed to the imaginary war against imaginary Islamo-fascists A. Rawls is engaged in.
And it all started with the strawberries.
So Les is okay with a giant Mecca oriented crescent on the Flight 93 crash site on the assumption that it is coincidental.
Does that really make it okay? The fact that it is a geometric match for the central feature of a mosque means that it can reasonably be interpretted as the central feature of a mosque, whether that is the intention or not.
Of all the shapes to use as a memorial for “the flight that fought back,” does it really make sense to use the symbol shape that the 9/11 terrorists claimed as their own, even if it is not intended to memorialize the terrorists? Why have something that can reasonably be interpretted as a memorial to the terrorists all all?
Symbolism is what a memoiral design is all about. It is not like there is really any excuse for using a symbol shape that is claimed by the terrorists. But Les has his eyes squeezed tight shut, grasping for any excuse (it could be coincidence!) to turn a blind eye to what is obviously inappropriate, regardless of whether it is coincidence or not. And he calls ME a loon.
Of course is absurd to think that there is anything coincidental about any of this. Architect Paul Murdoch did not lay out the memorial on the precise geometry of an Islamic crescent and star flag by accident. His job is symbolism, and he is very very good at it.
Does that really make it okay?
Yes if the families like it. Argument over.
Don’t be mocking my one-time close personal acquaintance Alex Constantine.
Well…
16. Have you been subjected to “Mind Control?”
Never. I am a victim of electromagnetic harassment. Head pains. Sleep deprivation. Not mind control. I was told years ago that this was not the point. “Punishment” is the point.
Alec, here is a clue. From the Park Service’s remarkably patient letter to you:
In reviewing the situation, Park Superintendent Hanley and Regional Director Bomar wrote you a number of letters explaining the design process as well as sharing with you information about the continued support that the families of Flight 93 have had for the selected design. The families were given the opportunity to review your report, but even after reviewing your information they still support the selected design. All of this was explained to you in written correspondence but you continued to make telephone contact with a number of the families which angered and frustrated many of them.
The shorter, less dignified meaning of the above passage is: fuck off, you fucking nut, you are inflicting your craziness on people who are just trying to do a job, as well as causing pain to people who have already suffered enough.
Do you have an I.Q. above 6, Alec?
Bouffant:
What would motivate someone to sneak a terrorist memorial mosque into our design competition? That’s pretty easy. We hosted an open competition in time of war. Of course the enemy would enter this, and try to win a hero to their heroes instead of ours.
Bin Laden will not just chuckle about it (if he is still alive). He will celebrate. It will be a great victory for al Qaeda, to have their heroes memorialized in the world’s largest mosque.
The harder question to answer is why so many Americans struggle mightily to not let themselves understand the first thing about Murdoch’s scheme, even when things like the Mecca orientation of the giant crescent are laid out for them in trivially easy to verify form.
The answer to this harder question is YOU. You all are doing the exact same thing the Memorial Project did. They simply refused to comprehend what they did not want to comprehend. You all are experts at this. Your cognitive goal is to find excuses for what Murdoch has done. Any rationale you can come up with for why you shouldn’t take my warning seriously is embraced, no matter how nonsensical.
You pretend to yourselves that Murdoch could have planted a giant crescent and star flag on the crash site by coincidence, as if that would somehow make it okay. You don’t need to know anything at all about Islam to confidently assert that the inexact Mecca orientation of the crescent would be an insult to Islam.
So you tell me Bouffant, what accounts for this determination to make up excuses for any and every Islamic and terrorist memorializing feature that Paul Murdoch emplaces? It is no mystery why the enemy would enter our design competition. The only mystery is why a full half of our population will embrace any excuse to look the other way.
The real conspiracy here is for you all to answer. It is YOUR mindset of willful blindness. I don’t do that. Other people I know don’t do that. YOU do that. Any insight you can offer into this peculiar phenomenon would be most appreciated.
Oh, here we go again. Hi, fruitloop.
So Les is okay with a giant Mecca oriented crescent on the Flight 93 crash site on the assumption that it is coincidental.
I am, still, a year and a half from the original conversation, waiting for some indication from you A) how 150 miles off from Mecca is “pointing directly at” and B) what the (as I put it) SWEET FUCK-ALL this has to do with ANYTHING.
I suppose you’ll trot out the “seizing territory” BS next. So it is a mosque, even if it isn’t. SO???
I like pie.
Have you ever noticed that the crust-end of a slice of pie is sorta crescent-shaped? Of course you have. Now the issue is that if you orient your pie-slice in a certain way, it faces Mecca, and when you bow your head to fork a piece of pie into your mouth, you are actually dishonoring the memory of anyone who was ever killed due to the actions of one or more Muslims. What are you going to do about it? Stop eating pie? Not me. If that makes me an Islamofascist, then so be it.
The harder question to answer is why so many Americans struggle mightily to not let themselves understand the first thing about Murdoch’s scheme, even when things like the Mecca orientation of the giant crescent are laid out for them in trivially easy to verify form.
And the pyramids on the Giza plain are laid out exactly like Orion’s Belt which means the builders were methane-breating squid from Betelgeuse.
And if you fold American money the proper way it reveals the secret infiltration of al-Qaeda into the U.S. Mint! And they knew about 9/11 when they designed the new $20 back in 1998!
And John Wilkes Booth ran from a theater and was caught in a warehouse, and Lee Harvey Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. JUST COINCIDENCE???
fruitloop.
Have you ever thought about the fact that Pac-Man, the inexplicably popular video game character, is CRESCENT-SHAPED?
Are you saying that so long as the crescent is not pointed exactly at Mecca there is nothing to be concerned about? Does that mean you WOULD be concerned if the crescent DID point exactly at Mecca?
It doesn’t, therefore it does! Me Bizarro, me not build building pointing to Mecca therefore it a mosque!
aw, crap, I guess he got tired of our “group-think” and took his toys and went home.
Not to mention that Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, and Kennedy had a scretary named Lincoln!
Bruce is probably behind this.Bastard!
“You pretend to yourselves that Murdoch could have planted a giant crescent and star flag on the crash site by coincidence, as if that would somehow make it okay. You don’t need to know anything at all about Islam to confidently assert that the inexact Mecca orientation of the crescent would be an insult to Islam.” Sounds more like Turkey is claiming this territory,I guess you could say nominally Islamic,although Attaturk might have something to say about that.
Linus is now hiding behind the skirts of the families, misusing them the same way Memorial Project has. The families have been endlessly lied to. The letter Linus quotes from contains two blatant lies that the Project told the families just about the Mecca orientation of the crescent.
First it denies that there is any such thing as “almost”: “mihrab orientation either points to Mecca or it does not … [it] cannot be off by ‘some’ degrees.” Anybody out there actually believe that an orientation cannot be off by “some” degrees?
Second, it claims that the orientation of the crescent cannot be analyzed because the site plan is not geo-referenced. The site plan is actually drawn on a topo map—the epitome of a geo-referenced map—with true north marked at the top and the coordinates of the crash site known.
The project has done the same on every piece of information. They just flat lie to the families, then use the families as cover. So congratulations Linus, for picking right up on a truly scumbag debating strategy.
The families are NOT united in wanting the crescent design to go forward. Tom Burnett Sr. has protested vehemently ever since he was on the jury that chose the design, pointing out that it contains not just a giant Islamic shaped crescent, but also the giant minaret like Tower of Voices (which turns out to be a year-round accurate Islamic prayer-time sundial).
The Project has consistently lied about the jury process, claiming that the jurors were unanimous in backing the Crescent of Embrace design. In fact, the vote was 9-6 on a jury that had 8 design professionals and 7 family members. We don’t even know if a majority of the families on the jury voted for the crescent design.
Mr. Burnett is now calling for a Congressional investigation. He is refusing to allow Tom Jr.’s name to be used, and he is pleading with the American people to take his and my warnings seriously.
The question for the commentators on this blog is whether you have the moral capacity to answer that call. Is anyone here capable of doing anything but making excuses NOT to take Tom’s and my warnings seriously?
It seems to me that you are incorrigibly fixated on partisan bigotry and no longer even have the CAPACITY to evaluate reason and evidence, as Mr. Burnett is calling for. I don’t think that your are constitutionally capable of taking ANYTHING seriously. But please, do prove me wrong.
Don’t worry Mr. Ubu. Aah’ll be baaack.
Hi Alec,
A few points before I go to bed:
Doodle-bean now thinks that he is an expert on Islam…
I do? And I’m male?! Huh, imagine that!! All that is to say that no, you cannot read minds. That’s just more of your magical thinking.
Of course the enemy would enter this, and try to win a hero to their heroes instead of ours.
What does this even mean? Did you mean to write, “win a memorial to their heroes”? If so, how could a ‘mosque’ which would be defiled be a memorial to their heroes?
In addition, do you really regard Paul Murdoch Associates to be “the enemy”? How about the Park Service? How about the survivors of the people on Flight 93? Are they also “the enemy”? Am I “the enemy”? How about the other people on this thread? Is everybody who doesn’t agree with you “the enemy”?
Bin Laden will not just chuckle about it (if he is still alive). He will celebrate. It will be a great victory for al Qaeda, to have their heroes memorialized in the world’s largest mosque.
No, since that ‘mosque’ would be defiled with the first visitors entering it. This memorial is not a fitting one to al Qaeda heroes. So, your idea is simply wrong.
Any rationale you can come up with for why you shouldn’t take my warning seriously is embraced, no matter how nonsensical.
No, not any. Just the sensible ones. Such as the fact that your theories are so crazy they don’t even have an internal logic which allows them to hold together. And, of course, the evidence from all around us about the true risks we face.
I’m going to leave you with a quotation from the Tbogg thread of almost two years ago:
I agree with Sarah. And will add that there is help out there for you.
Any rationale you can come up with for why you shouldn’t take my warning seriously is embraced, no matter how nonsensical.
Ah, he’s “warning” us now? But he still can’t articulate WHAT he’s “warning” us about, other than some yammerings about mihrabs and mosques and how AWFUL this would be if it pointed at Mecca and how we should be outraged, just like him, at something-or-other.
Off Topic: Psycheout of Blogs4Brownback was just qouted on Countdown as a representative of right-wing blogs reacting to the “Dumbledore is gay” thing. Har har!! Something like: “gays shouldn’t be allowed to live on G-d’s green earth.”
Off Topic: Psycheout of Blogs4Brownback was just qouted on Countdown as a representative of right-wing blogs reacting to the “Dumbledore is gay” thing. Har har!! Something like: “gays shouldn’t be allowed to live on G-d’s green earth.”
You are what you pretend to be.
Back to A. Rawls: Even the link you provided states that the memorial is “roughly” where the star would be. And that’s your own material. So the line almost points to Mecca & the memorial is “roughly” where the star would be. Wouldn’t Paul Murdoch want to shape the memorial like a star to really put one over on us? I mean, if you had some proof that Murdoch were a Muslim sleeper agent, & that the selection of this design had somehow been rigged, I’d still think you were being silly, but your only point seems to be that in your mind this is a mosque, albeit a very conceptual one (like, no one would even notice unless they were in an airplane, nor would anyone have noticed if no one had made a representation of it from above).
A great victory? Is this a war of graffiti or something? I’m sure OBL & his fundie pals are hoping/trying to do something a little more concrete than sneak a pseudo-mosque into This Great Nation of Ours™.
And now that I’ve wisely read the rest of the thread before further typing, I thank Doodle-Bean, for finishing the rest of my rebuttal to Mr. “Cut & Run.” (Are you a lady person, D-B? I looked @ your site once, at least, & made no assumptions other than the usual sexist ones that most of the fart-knockers [& fart-jokers] here are male, other than the obviously lady people.) Saved me the carpal tunnel, & said all I would have, & a bit more, plus the psychiatric social worker’s opinion. Go Doodle-Bean!!
I suggest Alec Rawls investigate this instead.
Righteous B.:
Thanks for the link to the interview w/ Constantine. Haven’t talked to him in about 10 yrs. (had a disagreement about O. J. Simpson; I pretty much figured it was as it appeared, O. J. killed his ex & her friend Ron, Alex thought it was the Florida cocaine mafia or whatever) & had just about forgotten that when I first knew him he was indeed just another struggling would-be writer here in
HellHollywood, but he sure did go off the deep end, pretty much as he described. Used to hang out @ his pad a couple of times a wk., more or less, & never suffered from microwave whatnot, but he was pretty convinced of it, though he did not sport a tin or lead foil hat.And he’s not nearly as wacky as Rawls there. Talk about monodelusional!
Don’t you think Psycheout is a little amusing? If nothing else, when B4B is quoted on national tee vee w/ crap like that it makes the wing-dings look as stupid as they truly are for a while.
Hi Doodle bug:
Again you are putting forward excuses that depend on facts about what is and is not allowed in Islam. You think you can assume that any mosque that was placed here could not be a proper mosque because it would be defiled by infidel visitors. Not so.
Take a look at Muslim aggression around the world. It often centers on driving infidels out of mosque sites. Making mosque claims and then trying to enforce them is a well established mode of Muslim conquest, practiced all over the globe today.
This is a plague in India, where decades of recurring Muslim violence have flared up around mosque claims. Similarly for the Palestinians. Freeing the Dome of the Rock from infidel control is one of the rallying points for the Hamas/Hezbollah jihad against Israel. You are just being willfully blind again, grasping at any straw of an excuse not to look at the facts.
As for the actual requirements of a proper mosque (instead of your ignorant presumptions about what makes a proper mosque), Paul Murdoch is both an expert in mosque design, and a genius. HE knows that what matters is the facts of how he executes his design (what you refuse to look at).
Thus for instance, Murdoch is consistent in placing the features that memorialize the terrorists in the parts of the Memorial that symbolize the Islamic heavens: the crescent and star structure that was completely naked in the original Crescent of Embrace design. (Every particle of the Crescent of Embrace remains completely intact in the Bowl of Embrace redesign, only disguised by some surrounding trees.)
In contrast, the parts of the memorial that symbolize the 40 infidels are consistently placed outside of the symbolic Islamic heavens, which in Islam signifies damnation. Thus Murdoch is able to include the 40 infidels in the design WITHOUT defiling it. They are depicted as cast into hell, representing the victory of the 9/11 terrorists.
This is the reason, for instance, why there are only 38 Memorial Groves instead of the advertised 40. The groves are part of the giant crescent and hence are part of the symbolic Islamic heavens. They CANNOT be a memorial to the 40 heroes, but have to be a memorial to Muslim heroes. Who could that be? See if you can figure it out.
Murdoch included two proofs that the answer (if you can come up with it) is the correct one.
Don’t you think Psycheout is a little amusing?
I’m not sure what to think about that sort of stuff sometimes, especially when the honestly delusional like Rawls are there to hop on a nutty bandwagon. Funny shouldn’t have to be obvious enough for dopes, but… I guess what I’m saying is that I haven’t found it funny enough, and there’s no accounting for taste.
Well, there you have it. I, for one, have no taste for accounting.
I think I’m also in a mood of some sort. I just want to walk Rawls to the hospital.
I confess, I’m more worried by the satanic symbolism contained within the very street-map of Washington DC. This was the work of those scheming Freemasons. And the Illuminati. It well be involve periodic human sacrifice at carefully-chosen map locations, to reconsecrate the cabalistic city-scaled sigil, but I can’t be arsed looking up the details.
To tell the truth, Mr Rawls comes across as a national treasure. You should be honouring him, not trying to talk him out of his theories. He could be the central character of a post-modernist novel, if it weren’t for the fact that Borges got there first and wrote Death and the Compass in 1942.
Alec, are you still at Stanford? Because I’m pretty sure that Cowell has mental health resources available. This isn’t funny anymore–you need help. Please, see about getting some.
Bubba,
Thanks for the link! It has a Renaissance painting on the cover, so the book must be valid!
M. Bouffant asks:
“The Bloc is not qualified to rule in an era beyond the Bronze Age.” (Gary Alexander, “Graffiti”, Isaac ASIMOV’S Science Fiction Magazine v.5#4, April 13, 1981)
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