I would feel better represented if that time had been better spent condemning O.J. for being a dumbass.

I’ll be thirty-five next year and I’ve never seen the Dems stand up for anything.

When you give the finger to 3.5 million MoveOn members, some of them aren’t going to forget it.

Completely useless to whom? Fool or tool?

I recall Carter was objectively pro-sweater.

What are they afraid of? I just don’t get it.

i wantz 3rd party now plz

Agreed.

Here’s how this should work: No Republican laws or amendments or anything else should ever get to a vote in the House or Senate. No-fucking-thing. Kill them in committee.

If Bush wants a budget or any other damn thing, he has to sign what the Democratic majority sends him, or he has to veto it. Bush shouldn’t have the ability to have his legislation even considered by an opposition Congress. Co-equal branches of government, bitches. If the GOP wants to block it, force the evil motherfuckers to filibuster, 24×7 day after day.

That’s how this is supposed to work. Of course, it assumes that the Dems have balls, which they don’t. I’m getting pretty fucking annoyed waiting for them to grow a set and I’m getting seriously pissed that they continually talk about growing a set but never actually do it.

Ain’t gonna happen. The Dems smell victory in ’08 and they can get back on the gravy train again. FISA, the MCA, trashing our habeas rights, adequate downtime for combat troops, the Dems are selling us down the river and they think we won’t notice.

Seriously, an unpopular President who can control 40 compliant Senators can basically run the country however the fuck he wants? Whatever happened to the United States?

Yeah. At this point, I’m holding out for the ’08 election to see if they don’t fall over themselves. Depending on how that goes, we’ll see what sort of other pretty countries can be moved to. America the Idea is seriously on the verge of death.

It’s your SYSTEM, people. The US system of government is working perfectly well.

No other developed democracy has so few parties, and yet you can hear a third party described as ‘Naderism’. Sweet Jesus – it’s not naderism – it’s democracy.

For fucks sakes don’t get a third party. Get a fourth or fifth party.

It ain’t a bug… it’s a feature.

naderism may not work, but more and more i keep going back to his main premise, ie, there’s essentially no difference between the two parties.

altho that’s not exactly true: the repubbbs are never afraid of what other people will think abou their nutty ideas.

naderism may not work, but more and more i keep going back to his main premise, ie, there’s essentially no difference between the two parties.

There’s a difference- Republicans have a political philosophy, the Dems don’t. That makes the Dems less ideologically crazy than the GOP, but more prone to manipulation.

Yeah, those third party bids have never caused election results to go haywire by stealing just enough votes from the rational candidate.

I say we need to split the republican party, and not the other way around.

Big props to Obama for not voting!

America is broken.

we need to find a mechanism to hold these people accountable. Because they clearly don’t have the principles to do it themselves

America needs a third viable liberal party. the only thing that will shake the democratic party is competition. unfortunately that takes years to develop.

Republicans have transparently sold out to the religious right, and to corporate interests. Democrats pretend to have the rights of the people in mind. However, whenever there is a crunch, Democrats can’t speak for the interests of the community.

That’s about the only difference I can see.

The system is rotten to the core. The military-industrial-congressional complex, the two-party system, America’s cultural jingoism and religious fervor. We’re fucked. We’re going to implode like the Roman Empire, and its not going to be pretty. I think Bush is the first regime to show us how hollowed out the core of America has become.

Third parties can’t work, because America is a winner-take-all-system.

The best thing to do is to just take over the Democrat party, the way the wackos have taken over the Republican party. Seriously — its a lot less work.

that didn’t come out right.

third viable party that is also liberal, is what i meant to say.

The best thing to do is to just take over the Democrat party, the way the wackos have taken over the Republican party. Seriously — its a lot less work.

Nuh-uh, man.

The Dems are forever the party of Broderism- too afraid of offending the sensitive souls at the WaPo op-ed page to ever make daring, ballsy moves.

Thus, I’m going to become a left-wing Republican. They’ve shown themselves unafraid to embrace radicalism, so it shouldn’t be too hard to replace one form of radicalism with another as long as I frame the issues cleverly and…

Ah, who am I kidding? Gravel ’08, baby. I gotta be me.

Yer losing yer snark, peeps. Take it to Kos.

inkadu, it’s more or less like that in Canada too. There dominant parties are Liberal (like your Democrats) and Conservative (like your Republicans). The New Democratic Party – left-liberal, has about 16-18% of the popular vote nationally. They also lead governments in a few provinces. They serve as the conscience of the Liberal Party and have split the vote on a number of issues. If the Liberals sense the public is in agreement with the NDP they tend to bend left.

But they’ve been around for decades…it takes a long time to become established.

The Greens are heading in the same direction. They’ve now got federal representation and their popularity is increasing provincially.

As Arthur Silber said a few weeks back: “The Democrats don’t object because…….the Democrats don’t object.” What we commonly chalk up to lack of balls is actually this: they’re on board with the Republicans; they agree, they’re with the program. After all, most of ’em voted for the war, right?

It’s an ugly thought to have rattling around in your head.

How about Ron Paul? I’m thinking the slogan can be “He’s bugfuck crazy, but it’s an honest crazy”.

Gravel? Sure, what the fuck do we have to lose? Other than that, who? Feingold? Kucinich? The bearded drunk guy who lives under the overpass?

UPDATE II: As I’ve said before, Gravel ‘08. He may be semi-insane, but he accurately captures my emotional state when I watch the Democrats in “action.”

Heh. Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue!

It amazes me how many times Dems are willing to try and kick the Republican football. Man, it sure would be nice to have someone with the testicular fortitude to clobber Lucy over the head with a stick.

The Repub liars & crazies were willing to spend 30 years, as well as untold millions of dollars, campaigning to take over local school boards and drain commissions. Then they trickled up, like toxic mold growing inside the walls. That’s the only way to realistically promote change in the current entrenched two-party system. Howard Dean’s got the start of a winning system in his “Fifty State Strategy” — we just have to get our saggy ol’ arses out into Teh Communertie and do the grass-roots thing. Of course it would be nice if we had the untold millions to spend as well, but if all we have are bodies, bodies will have to serve.

Admittedly it will cut into our online snarking time something awful.

Oops. Gotta snark some.

You guys are all wrong. By attacking MoveOn.Org, Democrats are going to totally win the 23% of hard-core Republican voters who still support the war.
After all, people are leaving the Republican party in droves due to their support of Iraq — they’ll be easy pick ups for Democrats, as long as Democrats continue to support the war.

Peace is war. Weakness is strength. Lameness is agility.

There’s a difference- Republicans have a political philosophy…

Sucking the cocks of the wealthiest is a philosophy?

The Dems are forever the party of Broderism…

Broder supported Nixon and wanted Clinton impeached. He is hardcore Rethuglican in a joe lieberman bi-package.

inkadu, it’s more or less like that in Canada too. There dominant parties are Liberal (like your Democrats) and Conservative (like your Republicans). The New Democratic Party – left-liberal, has about 16-18% of the popular vote nationally. They also lead governments in a few provinces. They serve as the conscience of the Liberal Party and have split the vote on a number of issues. If the Liberals sense the public is in agreement with the NDP they tend to bend left.

But they’ve been around for decades…it takes a long time to become established.

Yeah, and it also takes a parliamentary system, not a presidential one. As someone upthread said, the US system is a winner takes all system. And only the big boys get to play in a system like that.

The Greens are heading in the same direction. They’ve now got federal representation and their popularity is increasing provincially.

Bingo – they’ve got seats in parliament. Same with the Greens here in Australia. They just won their first seat in the Lower House at the last election. It means they’re in there – in the bear pit.

I can’t see how anything will change in the US while you have the current bizarre system of electoral colleges and directly elected presidents.

Yeah, and it also takes a parliamentary system, not a presidential one. As someone upthread said, the US system is a winner takes all system. And only the big boys get to play in a system like that.

The big boys who can draw 62 million votes. Come on, that’s pathetic. The US is ripe for a third party.

Jesus, the Republicans in congress actually spent time debating that “Betray-us” thing? And the Democrats actually voted with them?!? That’s what they think is important right now now?! A fucking newspaper ad?! Fuck them. Just fuck those pathetic little weasels and this fucking two party system. America really is in decline. Just fuckin’ hell. I keep thinking maybe I should move somewhere else…

Here’s the thing. I’m trying to care about this MoveOn thing, but I can’t. Bread and circus is one thing, keeping Ted Olson out of the AG seat is another.
Empty gestures aside, the Dems did ok this week, except for those who didn’t help get the bill for the troops past the Repub filibuster.

As for all the parliamentary maneuvering, isn’t the problem that we already have a third party?
Corporate Militarists control the government. Mostly they’re Republicans, but a few key Dems are with them, enough to maintain control for the moment. The real question for 08 is how many genuine Dems will ride the anti-Bush tide in, and how many races will essentially be CM v CM, especially the Presidency.

they did this on the same day the president called them, on the TV, the “Democrat” party.

after he’d promised not to. after it was pointed out how fucking juvenile this is. after it was pointed out to democrats that rush “ifuck14yearoldsafteritakecialis” limbaugh coined this term as an insult.

the dems are such losers that the leader of the opposition party calls them bitch ass pussies ON NATIONAL FUCKING TV and they choose, on that same day, to condemn their own BASE

oh.my.

i take solace in the fact that canada is close by, and not so horrible.

We may think we were born in a revolution, but it was a revolution of the upper & what middle classes there were. This is a basically conservative nation (not necessarily right wing nut job, but scared of change conservatism). And the chance of truly direct presidential elections (non-electoral college) let alone proportional representation ever coming to pass is not very good. We’re screwed. Royally.

This country is fucked.

Is it any wonder Congress’ approval rating is at, what, 11 percent? Fourteen percent? Something abysmal. Do they learn? They do not. I love the fucking Democrats, and they love fucking me.

Jeez, the only thing worse than this (utterly irrelevant) vote is that it quells the snark, here at S,N! If you can’t depend on S,N! to snark, then what can you believe in?

Look, the GOP has been punking their christianist base for years. Holding meaningless votes on a brain-dead woman, holding meaningless votes on abortion, giving Wall $treet every fuck-the-poor bill it wanted (Jesus hated the poor, and loved stockbrokers, dont’cha know?), getting caught in brothels, getting caught with other men’s wives, getting caught with gay whores, getting caught cruising in the bathroom, getting caught CHASING TEENAGE BOYS — you name a vice against the “value voters”, these guys have reveled in it, wallowed in it, screwed a pooch in it.

OK, so the Senate voted to condemn their critics. Boo hoo. Send ’em a copy of the Alien and Sedition Act, with a note that they’re a bunch of sissies compared to the Duke of Braintree (whose wife REALLY ran the place!). Mock them viciously; dance in front of their impotent expression of rage, singing “You Can’t Touch This” in your MC Hammer pants. Remark that most of them share a bathroom with Larry Craig.

Most of all, QUIT WHINING, and RESUME SNARKING. We’d be a used-up outpost of the defunct British Empire had Tom Paine not showed his polemical chops. Elmer Davies is ashamed. (And don’t even get me started on what H.L. Mencken would have said.)

Hey, Congress? You don’t like MoveOn? Guess what? MoveOn never liked you! It was “Censure and Move On” back when you couldn’t get your pin-head out of Monica’s thonged butt. You voted against MoveOn? MoveOn’s members get to vote against YOU. Feeling a little scared? Good! Keep acting like Bush’s bitch and you’ll get what you deserve, courtesy of MoveOn and the 60, no wait — 70, no wait — 73% who hate him and his butchery in Iraq.

Canada and the US have one thing in common: our most powerful political parties are all, by varying degrees, rightwing. Canada’s Liberal Party used to be centrist, but now it leans right on most issues. Before the Conservatives took office in the last election, the Liberals cut health transfer payments to the provinces and paved the way for privatized health care. (Naturally, the neoConservatives are happy as hell to carry that torch to the finish line.) Liberals also reduced employment insurance eligibility and thousands of workers no longer qualify. They still collect billions in EI premiums…they just don’t want to spend it on EI. Liberals slashed social spending when they were in power citing the needs of the economy. Now that the economy is in tip top shape and the unemployment rate is the lowest it’s ever been, has there been a return to social spending? No. The base of poor and homeless people is expanding. People who don’t have access to that wonderful economy.

If the Liberal Party is able to maintain a facade of liberalism it’s because the Conservative Party has evolved to become ultra right wing. Like the Bush republicans, our Conservative Party is comprised of Christian fundamentalists and uneducated reactionary wackjobs. Our foreign affairs minister believes man and dinosaur walked the earth together, for Christ sake). The Conservative Party of 25-30 years ago would be considered left wing by today’s standard.

Federally the New Democrats are left-leaning but provincially they’re a mixed bag. When the New Democrats ran British Columbia in the mid-90s they systematically booted people off of welfare as part of an ineffective “welfare to work” program. The training programs were all geared to minimum wage jobs that no one can live on. Many of the affected ended up homeless or flipping burgers and using food banks to survive. I give the NDP the credit for getting homelessness going in BC. Now that we have a right wing “liberal” party in power, the population of homeless has doubled (or tripled depending on which stats you believe).

A big problem in the US (and to some degree in Canada, too) is low voter turnout. In 2004 in the US it was 55%, in 2002, 47%. That’s abysmal. But if people aren’t voting it’s either because they’re complacent (which I don’t quite buy) or they have no faith in the process. If you’re poor or lower middle class very little changes. If you’re a US poor person you’ve got no health insurance, a poor education, a shit job if you’re lucky and shit wages. At the end of that you’re tired and cynical.

If you can’t depend on S,N! to snark, then what can you believe in?

you saw the part about Gravel ’08, right?

I’d call that some deeply ironic snark right there.

If the US had a parliamentary system like the UK or Canada, would a ‘third force’ have emerged (or 4th, 5th and 6th force if it had a PR voting system)?

For once I wish “Phil Abuster” had stuck around the gum up the works.

The reporter who asked the President that last softball question at his press conference about that awful and horrible MoveOn is the very same Bill Sammon who wrote the book, “Strategery: How George W. Bush Is Defeating Terrorists, Outwitting Democrats, and Immanentizing Gods Will”.
Well whaddaya know.

Was Obama the only senator not to say FUCK YOU to the base today?

Because it doesn’t look like I’m an Edwards supporter anymore.

I’d like to point out.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/20/open-thread-589/

This is now the SECOND time neocons have compared themselves to the terrorists. Smooth.

Time to flee this insanity.
I’m looking for a nice little bach. Not Ludwig. Herr Doktor?

oops, i meant Johann. Those dems got me flustered. Democracts and tequila.

The Repub liars & crazies were willing to spend 30 years, as well as untold millions of dollars, campaigning to take over local school boards and drain commissions. Then they trickled up, like toxic mold growing inside the walls. That’s the only way to realistically promote change in the current entrenched two-party system.

Anne:

I think about that a lot too. Here in Chicago we have most of the city council voting that we should get out of Iraq asap. It doesn’t sound like much, but I think it’s analogous to what the ‘conservative movement’ did. Really, though, we should be not only convincing our local pols, but replacing them too, to copy what the ‘conservative movement’ did.

I’m not anti-Green, I just think that changing the Dems would be my preferred strategy. Progressive Democrats of America has a pretty good take on this, I think.

But maybe if the Democrats keep voting to condemn us, the Republicans will finally really, really like them.

You guys are all wrong. By attacking MoveOn.Org, Democrats are going to totally win the 23% of hard-core Republican voters who still support the war.

Thank you, that’s what always kills me about the Dems. Why do they not realize that the people they are aiming for seriously believe that they are the spawn of Satan and Fidel Castro? Do they not talk to people outside of DC? They are hypnotized, or something.

floopmeister, you beat me to it. That electoral college thing is tres weird, and means that, along with other peculiarities of the US system, there’s bugger-all chance of minor parties getting a toehold.

And that’s got to be one of the better facets of our system down here Down Under – that there’s a smattering of minor parties that pick up a seat or two in the upper or lower house. Sometimes, that gives them a hugely disproportionate say, since they may hold the tie-breaking vote (it’s how Tasmania got a few choice goodies).

In particular, I’m extremely glad to see The Greens slowly but steadily increasing their toehold. The original Greenie in Oz, Senator Bob Brown, is an intelligent, forthright, compassionate man who’s demonstrated an honesty that’s uncommon in politics, particularly in these sad days, and it’s nice to see ordinary(ish) people in parliament, instead of the usual bloated privileged toads in expensive suits.

I’ll be thirty-five next year and I’ve never seen the Dems stand up for anything.

I’m maybe a year older than you are, and it only just now occurs to me that this is absolutely right. I’ve never seen such a thing happen either. And goddamn, that’s depressing.

after he’d promised not to. after it was pointed out how fucking juvenile this is. after it was pointed out to democrats that rush “ifuck14yearoldsafteritakecialis” limbaugh coined this term as an insult.

Actually, it goes back to Bob Dole in 1976, when he was Ford’s running mate.

If the US had a parliamentary system like the UK or Canada, would a ‘third force’ have emerged (or 4th, 5th and 6th force if it had a PR voting system)?

Quite possibly the Populists or the Socialists would have kept some presence? I’m not up on US elections as much as I’d like to be.

Hell, and on the other side, Reform might have peeled off some of the less-crazy Republicans.

The “big dog” stood up to the republican congress when they shut down the government with their temper tantrum. Pundits predicted newt and his boys would win and the american public sided with Clinton. Why can’t the dems take something from this lesson?

I think the dem’s slogan for 2008 should be, “The democrat party: We suck a little less than republicans.”

I’m tempted to say to hell with ’em and counsel Democratic voters to stay home and not vote. Let the Republicans have another four years. Of course, that wouldn’t teach the Democrats anything, it wouldn’t end the war any faster (not that the Democrats have any plans to end the war), and it’d give Republicans another four years to destroy America.

I’m tempted to say let’s start punking the Dems like we do the Reps. Call their hometown newspapers and tell ’em they’re holding a press conference to switch parties. Let ’em explain to their real constituents about their GOP-approving behavior.

Best two solutions: (1) make sure the Bush-worshiping Democrats all have primary opponents, and (2) vanish the beltway media.

Lesley: just an FYI – the Green party doesn’t have any MPs elected. Or maybe I misread your comment…

Another sorry example of politics as usual. Wish I had a dollar for all the “fuck yous” and “thanksRalphs” us non-Democrat lefties heard over the last year when we pointed out that this sort of crap is exactly what you’re going to get from the Dems. They go along with this shit because they agree with it, not because they’re intimidated by President 29%. They’re delighted that their base – whoever that is – thinks they’re afraid; it’s much easier to say “We’d have more balls if you gave us a bigger majority” than it is to say “Hey, fuck you, we LIKE imperialism.” Dudes can’t wait to take all those hot new unitary-executive powers out for a spin.

The Democrats have left the building, dead as Elvis, and their corpse also seated on the toilet. I have been considering registering Republican for the past few years. I would at least have a chance to vote against their biggest lunatics in the primary. As it stands, Hillary Clinton already has a lock on the Democratic nomination, so that along with the cowards in Congress have taken any wind out of my sails for getting behind the Democrats. Every four years, they put up the lamest possible candidate and try and guilt us into voting for him/her. I plugged my nose and voted for John “We’re going to fight a smarter war” Kerry, but I am done with these assholes. MoveOn is doing exactly what the Democrats should have been doing years ago. The Democrats don’t even deserve MoveOn.

InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said

Because it doesn’t look like I’m an Edwards supporter anymore.

Edwards isn’t in the Senate anymore. Clinton and Dodd voted against it, Obama didn’t vote either way. Biden was not present.

Americans: If you can’t change your voting system to something other than winner take all, you’re never going to have a viable third party. there has NEVER been a third party in the United Ststes system that lasted: It either wallowed in irrelevance until they gave up, OR they took over as the cominant party (I.e. the Republican party overtaking the Whigs).

The problem is that it takes more political effort than calling your congressman once in a blue moon and pulling a lever once every 2-4 years.

Infiltrating the Democratic party has it’s merits; it’s how the batshit insane took over the Republicans.

And Ron Paul? Are you nuts? He’s an anti-war Grover Norquist. If you believe he’s anything better than that, I have two fucking words for you; “Compassionate Conservatism”. Same smokescreen.

after it was pointed out to democrats that rush “ifuck14yearoldsafteritakecialis” limbaugh coined this term as an insult.

The “Democrat Party” thing dates back to Sen. Joe McCarthy, as I recall. Newt Gingrich is generally credited with its modern popularity.

sadly, i can see clearly now…the hoped for war horse (dem control of senate) is actually a whore house…i so pissed off at my senator diane frankenstein…aw fuggit…

We could always opt to call them the RePoo party, should we wish to sink to that level

LeftWIngFox, I think I’m the only one to bring up Ron Paul in this thread. FWIW, I did call him “bugfuck crazy”. I’m not a fan of anyone on that side of the dial, but I think Paul is one of the few who actually says what he believes and believes what he says, which I respect. There’s no “compassionate anything” smokescreen with him …

or, considering the news, the Repo party.

Ron Paul is a militia guy. I remember a few years back when he’d publish stuff in his newsletter talking about the evils of black people. That’s why I can’t stand him.

It’s like our friend Howie says over at Down With Tyranny…..

MORE and BETTER Democrats in 2008.

We haven’t flushed the moderate corporate Rahm Emanuel business shills out yet. Maybe we never will.

But either way, it’s going to take some work. Snarking at Kevin won’t get us anywhere.

How about we contact our Senators? I’ve got an earful for Kohl. Make sure they know that they haven’t won any popularity contests, and that we are not happy.

would feel better represented if that time had been better spent condemning O.J. for being a dumbass.

Hell, I’d have found them to possess more gravitas had they debated a resolution that Britney’s VMA performance sucked.

The appropriate Dem response was “go fuck yourself.” It would have been effective and made them feel good at the same time.

I’m voting for Hillary. Not because I believe in her policies, or that she’s the best candidate. I’m voting for Hillary merely because if she wins, it will make the wingnuts’ lives miserable. That’s all we’ve got to hope for anymore.

LA Confidential Pantload said,

Another sorry example of politics as usual. Wish I had a dollar for all the “fuck yous” and “thanksRalphs” us non-Democrat lefties heard over the last year when we pointed out that this sort of crap is exactly what you’re going to get from the Dems.

Ayuh. Ralph-blaming aids and abets the “sensible liberals” of the DLC, who aid and abet the GOP.military/industrial complex. *All* the real lefties I know voted Nader in 00. Every bloody one of them. Recall that the early signs of our current fascist backslide were present during the Clinton (“the best Republican president ever”) years and before. And remember how everyone used to hate Albright over the sanctions in Iraq being “worth” the deaths of untold thousands of innocents? Killing Iraqis is a bipartisan sport.

One should not let the in-your-face atrociousness of the modern GOP and rose-tinted 90s nostalgia hide just how much and how hard and for how long the Democrats have sucked moose ass. I’ll admit that I too had some irrational exuberance after November, and that they’re still not as bad as GOPers, but I say fuck the fucking Democratic Party and the lame-ass donkey they rode the fuck in on.

Has it occurred to anyone this is not a big deal?

Look… A lot of Democrats are from states where they hold rather slim majorities (especially mountain states and anyone we have in the south). During the next election (whether we like it or not), if they vote against this resolution the right-wing add machine will beat them wiht that vote like Oscar DeLahoya beats a defective wig.

Right now, thanks to our Constitutional system, there is really fuck all that the Democrats can do without Filibuster proof majorities in both houses. So folks who think that having a slim Democratic majority while President Cukoo-bananas is in office is going to get us out of Iraq need to realize that this ain’t Mr. Smith goes to Washington. If the Republicans hang together (and if there is ONE thing REpublicans can actually do it is hang together there is little or nothing that can be done).

From a strategic sense the Dems know that if things keep going the way they are the Republicans are going to get shellacked Ronald-Reagan-hairdye-style in the next election. So why risk fucking that up by givng the Right wing obvious “Willie horton” shit to hang their hat on?

As for giving us the finger… Who cares, who are we going to vote for, a third party? I think the Nader debacle illustrated plenty clearly that while both parties may be bad, there is a pretty huge diffrence when push comes to shove.

Sure we are ot winning the votes… But around election time we can roll out the “Republicans voted againts allowing troops to come home for much needed rest. Republicans. Why do they hate america?”

We lost a tactical battle, but look long term, we are winning strategically.

if she wins, it will make the wingnuts’ lives miserable

Nominations for the piss-off-a-wingnut ticket:

Ted Kennedy
George Soros
Scott Beauchamp
Jimmy Carter!

Obama totally gave the base the finger, as did one of my senators, Maria Cantwell. neither could even be bothered to show up.

It is one thing to vote one way or another. Then you are standing up for something, ‘the base’ be damned. It is another to weasel your way out by just not showing up. Don’t we pay them to vote?

And I think it really is time to have a real third party. If the people left of the Dems (what is that, like 30-40% f the country) came together, we’d own this motherfucker.

Throughout history, The Man has kept everyone else down by teaching them to believe that change is too difficult, or too much work. It takes courage and action to effect change. If you are weighing the ‘work-to-results’ equation, maybe you had better examine the veracity of your beliefs.

Hows about the Sadly, No! party? Might as well…

BTW- over-educated:

WE have the filibuster-proof majority. They just, for what ever reason, haven’t forced the Repubs to actually filibuster. The threat alone has sent the Dems scattering, leaving small pools of urine where they once stood.

Obama totally gave the base the finger, as did one of my senators, Maria Cantwell. neither could even be bothered to show up.

I don’t mind not showing up for bullshit votes. Is his ass was itchy and he therefore missed a vote in which no law whatsoever was made, that’s okay by me.

t4toby

I think we need 60 votes to break the filibuster, we only have 51 democratic senators.

over_edumacated, where to begin?

there is really fuck all that the Democrats can do without Filibuster proof majorities in both houses

When was the last time we actually saw a filibuster? Why aren’t the GOP forced to stand up and actually fight for the Bush agenda? Why are the Dems afraid of a fight? Let them filibuster and make it clear that a Republican minority is obstructing legislation. Send a bill to Bush and he vetoes it? Send it right back to him unchanged. Keep sending it to him. See how the fuckers govern without a budget.

For Chrissakes, why did the Moveon thing ever even come to a vote? The house and senate leadership should block everything that comes from a Republican. Elections have consequences.

So why risk fucking that up …

Because people are dying every day over these issues? Because things like the FISA bill are fundamental violations of core American rights and principles? Because it’s wrong?

What I read between the lines is that you’d rather be President than be right. For a lot of us, we’d rather be right than be President .. we want to fight the good fight because it’s the right thing to do. The side benefit is that people usually tend to vote for the candidates who display conviction. Particularly in the house, people want a fighter. It’s kind of like hiring a lawyer … do you want the nice, accommodating guy, or do you want the tough street fighter guy who stands up for what he believes?

while both parties may be bad, there is a pretty huge diffrence when push comes to shove.

Thing is, my friend, push has already come to shove, and the Dems failed it. This was the big chance to show that “huge difference”, and we now see there’s really no difference at all. You may have noticed that the Dems control both houses. They set the legislative agenda. Why isn’t there a rollback of the habeas provisions of the MCA on Bush’s desk right now? Who cares if he vetoes it? Take a stand for what’s right, not for what may benefit your party in the next election. Why did that FISA abomination ever come to a vote? How could something so egregiously un-American ever pass?

The only conclusion I can come to is that the Dems are willing to trade principles for power. Why should I vote for Bush-lite?

I’m with zsa. i voted for Nader because he seemed to be closer to my ‘values’ than the rich guy or the really rich guy. I may have been wrong, but I voted my conscience.

Over-educated- True, we need sixty votes to break the filibuster. They need sixty votes to force the vote. So let them filibuster until the cows come home and then some. The vote does not proceed, the Republicans look bad. That’s how you play ball.

And Bubba- Are you saying that the codifying of the erosion of the First amendment is merely a symbolic vote? I’m calling slippery slope here.

And Bubba- Are you saying that the codifying of the erosion of the First amendment is merely a symbolic vote? I’m calling slippery slope here.

If it has no force in law it’s a tut-tut and while it’s appalling that people voted for it it’s meaningless in any practical sense. I don’t believe it’s codifying the erosion of the first amendment at all.

I voted for Nader in 2000, but I was in CA at the time, and it was clear Gore was going to win the state.

Both my parents voted for Nader in Florida, however, so this is largely their fault.

zsa – Fair enough. I guess I am operating from a state of fear and risk aversion.

Bubba-

Terri Shiavo- Frivolous.

Censuring the political opponents (of the least popular president evar!!1!)- The recognizable first steps of totalitarian control of the media.

Oh, sure, they didn’t vote to imprison all who are reponsible, but you can’t get to the top of the stair in one step. It takes many small steps to accomplish what others previous thought impossible.

William Rivers Pitt is a MUST READ!!! today. Go read him. Seriously.

And because I make mistakes in my comments means that the instant preview is in league with Osama bin Laden and Satan.

Censuring the political opponents (of the least popular president evar!!1!)- The recognizable first steps of totalitarian control of the media.

Obvious steps have been taken well before this. Watch the Bill Moyers stuff on the run-up to the latest Iraq debacle. A vote cranking about an ad is far less troubling than influencing editorial copy which, you know, actually happens.

t4toby: That link was as good as a Jimmy Dean. 10Q.

I emailed my one senator who bothered to show up and vote no (Patty Murray – hey t4toby, I’m a Washingtonian too!) to thank her, something I’ve never done before.

And something that I’m incredibly disappointed that I’m doing now. When I get thrilled that one of my senators can recognize the trivial during wartime, I also am forced to realize that a mess of ’em can’t … and that we’re in wartime at all … and I wonder if it’s too early to start drinking …

MCH-

I’m not sure I know what you mean.
Is Jimmy Dean good, or bad. Because it brings to mind little breakfast sandwiches.

And I’m not sure which those are…

West Side!

Vin- I e-mailed and called Cantwell and let ’em have it (in a semi-polite way, of course).

T4: Sorry for my sad attempt at humor. Jimmy Dean breakfast sausages come in patties and *links*, etc., blah blah. Me so clever and all that.

Those preassembled sandwich thingies tend to be awful.

It occurs to me that now would be an awesome time to have a vote on whether or not to condemn Ted Stevens for taking a bribe.

Or maybe a vote condemning sex in public bathrooms.

Or a vote condemning adults wearing diapers for non-medical purposes.

Condemn Jonah Goldberg for being a bloated sack of protoplasm!

God, if Al Franken gets into the senate I hope he follows up every bullshit measure with one that’s actually funny.

The Dem who deserves most of the blame is Harry Reid who let this ridiculous piece of Rethug propaganda onto the Senate floor in the first place.

Crooks and Liars has the Jon Stewart from last night.

Pretty funny, comparing the Dems to the Lawyer from the Simpsons.

The Dem who deserves most of the blame is Harry Reid who let this ridiculous piece of Rethug propaganda onto the Senate floor in the first place.

Yup. He can keep his people from looking like bigger idiots if he tries.

I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired. I think I need a break from politics for a little while. I’ll be back eventually…

Crooks and Liars has the Jon Stewart from last night.

the interview with bill clinton sandwiched between clips of the current George Bush was a truly depressing few moments. oh how low the US has sunk.

RiBub, I’m gonna email my Senator Feingold today and suggest those very things….

If nothing else, Russ gets a laugh and after fighting the good fight for a s long as he has, he’s gotta need one once in a while…

Thanks!!

Feinstein lost my vote when she voted for the war to start with. She’s nothing but another right-wing mole who needs to be forced out of the Democratic Party. So I’m enraged but not at all surprised that she voted for the Cornyn nonsense.

The last two weeks have really clarified a lot of things for me. The closest analogy to our system today is the USSR in the mid-80s, just before it collapsed. We have a single, totalitarian political party which has a death grip on the reins of power. (No surprise that they would denounce insurgent upstarts who dare to doubt their carefully planned patriotic displays). The public is disgusted, cynical and knows it’s all a sham. (I live in Calif. and could be wrong about this; I’ve been out of Midwest, Kansas-like places too long to know if there are still slack-jawed white people there stupid enough to believe they actually have any influence over the gov’t.)

Like the Russians in Afghanistan, our military is tied down in a pointless, lost war in the Middle East, slowly being bled dry. Our economy is collapsing from within (the housing bubble & nat’l. debt crises.)

Minor flaws in this scenario. We still have bread, and our circuses are much more varied and entertaining. Our populace may be stupider and more apathetic, especially the youth (I gather that only a small elite would’ve been exempted from Afghan svc. then– it’s only a small minority forced to serve in Emperor Codpiece’s historic conquests . . .)

So, what’s next. Military coup? (It’s now official: the military is a superior institution to voters and Congress itself, sacrosanct and unassailable. On the way to Popeish infallibility prob.)

Revolution from the ground up seems unlikely. Even progressives denounce a 2nd party (never mind a 3rd, since we only have one) as “Naderism”. Yes, that deadly Goldstein (did I botch the name) really posed a threat to Eurasia in 1984, didn’t he. It’s the same as deviant Trotskyism, “two legs bad” etc. Our legislature can enact 2 min. of official Hate against MoveOn, & everyone will feel better. (Well, everyone in the elite, plus the 26%ers, anyhow.)

The Demos won’t get another dime of my $, ever, unless they make a 180 degree turn. I thought moveon was pretty namby-pamby til recently, but am sending them $ love.

Anyway: I think financial collapse & some kind of feudal-corporate oligarchy like Gorbachev and that fat drunk Yeltsin created is the most likely future for the once powerful & glorious U.S. We’ll get more of the kind of gov’t we apparently deserve.

God, if Al Franken gets into the senate I hope he follows up every bullshit measure with one that’s actually funny.

Any Minnesotans hanging out? What’s the scuttlebutt on Al, anyway? Does he have a decent chance? As one of Vin and toby’s state-mates, I’d happily trade Cantwell for Franken if y’all don’t want him in MN.

I’m an ex-Minnesotan and I haven’t seen the polls on it, but MN is a great liberal state (mid-west progressivism is a largely ignored/misunderstood phenomenon), Coleman is largely seen as a Bush stooge, and Minnesota is the state that elected Jesse “The Body” Ventura.

Personally, I think Al has a lock on it unless some they find grainy 80’s video of him snorting coke off a hooker’s ass. Probably have to be a dead hooker, as well.

Not that I’m the sort of person to take joy in saying “I told you so”, but……

Well, you know. I really did tell y’all that the Democratic party sucks . That it would be of no help in this situation. That if they were any more vertebrally challenged, the entire theory of evolution would have to be rewritten to account for how Homo democratica is not a member of the phylum Chordata.

Until the Democratic party starts actually DOING WHAT THEY WERE SENT TO WASHINGTON TO DO, we have – as Mark above pointed out – one party rule in this country.

Mmmmm……………taste that democracy!

Gore is the president in exile, and has been behaving accordingly. It’s time to reel him in. Like Mandela.

[…] So, yeah, I’m about as pissed off as Brad. The country has gone nuts. Seriously, 22 Democrats, fuck the heck (and thank goodness our Senators […]

“This anal penetration was brought to you by the Democratic Party, enjoy!”

You guys are still standing with that look on your faces, like your mom just gave you a prostate check…