I like to call the whole thing “Avoision”.

Does Walter Williams rise above the infantile libertarian argurment that is “taxation is theft”?

Sadly, no.

I think that some of Europe’s welfare states are stumbling on their own size and will drag many people with them. I think we need to stop the trans-atlantic football match, accept that the US is superior to us in some ways and v.v. and actually make some changes now – it is easier to pinch your pennies when you have dollars to spare, and most European states need reform and effectivization. I think taxes in Europe are too high and that we have wrong values and priorities in some respects.

I also think this guy should get his head out between Ayn Rand’s legs, wipe his lips and get out of college.

Ah, so the Vatican should come out taxes. As long as they’re at it, can they come out against death?

When serving God, I think it’s best to accompany it with a crisp, dry white wine, like maybe a Pinot Grigio or Muscadet, to accent God’s rich, spicy flavor.

Some say that God’s full flavor calls for an equally bold wine, like an aggressive California Zinfandel, but I disagree.

When serving Mammon, I reccomend beer.

^come out AGAINST taxes

“should the Church support the government’s taking the property of one person and giving it to another to whom it doesn’t belong?”

great question!

did anyone see the word “tithing” in William’s essay ?

i didn’t.

@Jake

Isn’t that the foundation of all Christianity?

I thought the foundation of all Christianity was ensuring that dudes never kiss each other?

Only in public Jake. In the public bathroom stall its a whole different story.

I seem to remember Jesus being quite fond of taking the property of one person and giving it to the poor.

[…] (via) Filed under: Uncategorized — cleek @ 12:59 pm […]

should the Church support the use of the coercive powers of government to enable one person to live at the expense of another?

Libertarians are such cunts. It’s like if you sucked all of Steve Buscemi’s coolness out of Mr. Pink and left just the wormy husk bitching about having to leave a tip.

I seem to remember Jesus being quite fond of taking the property of one person and giving it to the poor.

Actually, one of the most remarkable dirty secrets of Christianity is that when Jesus (or, more likely, the itinerant gnostic preachers on whom the Jesus myth was based) said “be generous to the poor,” what he was likely really saying was “be generous to destitute itinerant preachers”–in short, “buddy, can you spare a quarter?” Robert Price’s excellent The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man devotes two chapters to the complex relationship between the wandering clergy and the normal populace in early Christian society and doctrine.

What does this have to do with global warming?

Allow me to take this analogy a step further. My wife is a stay-at-home mom; therefore, her spending of my hard-earned money to buy clothing is obviously theft. Similarly, my 4 children are apparently nothing more than juvenile delinquents that steal from me daily! Within a few years my OWN MOTHER will be stealing from me. Where will it end?

We live in a very complex society where all sorts of people fill all sorts of niches. Safety nets of various strengths are constructed for all of us should we fall. I find comfort in that. Why is it some people get their panties in a bunch because some relatively small subset of our incredibly wealthy populace choose to take advantage of that safety net? I believe it is more harmful to our society to do “banking in another country” to avoid taxation than it is to, say, collect social security benefits because you had a rough go as a steelworker.

Wow, Bubba, your household is rife with sin. Mine, too, alas: Not only do I also steal from my spouse, I had milk today! And eggs and cheese yesterday! At least my spouse consents, what about the chickens? WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHICKENS?!!

should the Church support the use of the coercive powers of government to enable one person to live at the expense of another?

Um, isn’t this what the Church did during the Dark Ages and beyond? All those bishops, cardinals, priests, and various other supernumaries, didn’t they live on the tithes (10%) collected from their flocks? call it the coercive power of salvation but it’s no less than a tax that no one could avoid paying.

Shorter Daniel Pipes:

“Don’t ban the Quran, just imprison anybody who doesn’t read it the way we want them to read it.”

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/42327.html

GMU: they publish Daniel Pipes and employ Walter Williams. That’s some institution of “higher” learning.

should the Church support the use of the coercive powers of government to enable one person to live at the expense of another?

They are the ultimate proponents of enabling one person (pre-person?) to live at the expens of another. I suspect Mr. Williams supports this involuntary asset transfer.

When serving God, I think it’s best to accompany it with a crisp, dry white wine, like maybe a Pinot Grigio or Muscadet, to accent God’s rich, spicy flavor.

I got dibs on a drumstick!!

Sorry to disturb the humor but I think this might be worth checking out…

Tomorrow is here. The game is over. The crisis has passed — and the patient is dead. Whatever dream you had about what America is, it isn’t that anymore. It’s gone. And not just in some abstract sense, some metaphorical or mythological sense, but down in the nitty-gritty, in the concrete realities of institutional structures and legal frameworks, of policy and process, even down to the physical nature of the landscape and the way that people live.

The Republic you wanted — and at one time might have had the power to take back — is finished. You no longer have the power to keep it; it’s not there. It was kidnapped in December 2000, raped by the primed and ready exploiters of 9/11, whored by the war pimps of the 2003 aggression, gut-knifed by the corrupters of the 2004 vote, and raped again by its “rescuers” after the 2006 election. Beaten, abused, diseased and abandoned, it finally died. We are living in its grave.

Post-Mortem America

Ah, but when such an act is conducted publicly – that is, through legal means and by elected representatives – we call that “taxes.” Similarly, executions are not murder, incarceration is not kidnapping and elections are not coups.

Indeed.

How come is it that certain people claiming to be libertarians (pace, libertarians) get all upset about government coercion when it comes to taxes and the money thereof going to help poor people (some of whom might be non-white), yet when it comes to the ultimate acts of government coercion, e.g. incarceration, they are strangely silent.

I’m no Christian, but I don’t think “but they are criminals, so they deserve what happens to them” is an acceptable Christian doctrine. Criminals, perhaps justifiably so, are among “the least among [us]” … and hence, according to Bush’s fave philosopher, that which you do, e.g., to criminals, you also do to said philosopher.

Anyway, I dunno so much about tithing, but to the extent that the government of ancient Israel was a theocracy, it must have used the powers of government coercion to “enable one person to live at the expense of another”, after all, Jewish law mandated tithing so long as the Temple was in existence … it wasn’t a question of charity — you had to give a certain amount of your wealth to the poor. But I guess Paul found all of this “God commands you to give money to the poor” and “God commands you to let your crops lie fallow every seven years” stuff too legalistic, so the only part of the Bobble that the fundies feel should be legislated are those apparently prohibiting teh hawt gay sex — the environment be damned and we should just be charitable to the poor and see how that works.

BTW: speaking of un-Biblical things, why isn’t the religious right doing something about usury? I don’t think the Bible looked too kindly upon interest.

*sigh* these fuckheads who whine about the welfare state are irritating.

they need to be reminded that the welfare state is the price paid for the policy of land enclosures (the British countryside as we know today was largely created by this)

What right wing vulgar libertarian tossers forget is that with the process of land enclosures, the taking away of public land, the end of subsistence farming, this left an uprooted populace with little visible means of support, which required the creation of a welfare state.

I was left a interesting comment on my blog a few months ago related to this issue

As Larry Gambone said somewhere, the welfare state is the price the ruling class pays for state capitalism: it is essentially using the state to clean up after itself and to correct the instabilities it created.

Dan Sullivan, a Geoist, argued that when the state intervenes in the market to create privilege, it results in an unstable feedback mechanism that eventually leads to depression. There are only two possible courses of action at that point: 1) eliminate the privilege and the original source of feeback, by which wealth grows on itself and leads to maldistribution of purchasing power; or 2) add a new layer of Keynesian government intervention to partially correct for the government-created maldistribution of purchasing power.
Kevin Carson | Homepage | 06.11.07 – 9:33 pm | #

When serving God, I think it’s best to accompany it with a crisp, dry white wine, like maybe a Pinot Grigio or Muscadet, to accent God’s rich, spicy flavor.

I find myself much preferring a late harvest riesling or gewurztraminer when I’m serving God. I find it helps to dull the cognitive dissonance, although really, any large amount of alcohol, even a ‘hard’ liquor like bourbon, will do much the same thing.

Well, everyone else has already shot this pathetic argument to pieces, so I’ll just shake my head in bemused pity once again at the state of right-wing “intellectuals” in this country. How the hell can anyone vote for these people?

“Propaganda is to a democracy as violence is to a dictatorship” as the old saying goes

Enough about wine. I want to know where tigrismus gets chicken milk.

You trying to tell me the chickens where you live don’t have breasts?

Enough about wine. I want to know where tigrismus gets chicken milk.

From A Night At The Opera:

Groucho: “Got any milk fed chicken?”
Waiter: “Oh, yes sir!”
Groucho: “Good, go squeeze me a glass!”

There. Marxism at its finest. Or, there’s the old joke:

Querey: “How do you milk a chicken?”
Response: “First, you get a tiny stool…”

“Yeah, you can milk anything with nipples…”

“What about me, Focker, can you milk me? I’ve got nipples. You gonna milk me?”

Every time I read/hear this, I think to myself, “Goddam, I hope your house catches on fire.” Even though I know the irony of the would be completely lost on them.

Taxes are the only way society will work. There’s not a lot of barter economy demand for opinion editorials, if you catch my drift.

I also find it amusing that Mr. Williams would be so willfully ignorant of the Church’s glorious past of taking the money from one and giving it to another who has not earned it.

HA! You can’t spell “Texas” without “Taxes”. This means nothing, but makes me giggle to myself.

…if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,…. And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant; and if you gather within your cities I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy…. And I will lay your cities waste, and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your pleasing odors.

Ah, Leviticus, filled to the brim with smitey goodness.

I’m a Book of Joshua fan myself. Puts any Hollywood film to shame in terms of its gore/page ratio.

YHWH (or Elohim),

I believe that YHWH was actually a member of the group of gods collectively called the Elohim (which then became a singular proper name as ancient Judaism stole more and more of monotheism from the Zoroastrians). So I guess you’re right either way.

I Like Pie.

The Church has supported the Welfare State since De Rerum Novarum. It’s also opposed communism since then.

Well, hell, if god’s such a weenie, I’LL smell your pleasing odors. Line up over there. Alright, who’s first.

Whatcha got?

**SNIFF**

WHOOO! I said PLEASING, fer crissakes. Get yer damn smegma outta my face.

Next!

mikey

I don’t know about this business of ‘eating the flesh of god’, but in the interests of science I’m willing to try black pudding made with the Blood of the Lamb.

Should the Roman Catholic Church support the welfare state?

Williams doesn’t have to wait for the new encyclical to know the Church’s current position on the welfare state. He could’ve just read a little Church doctrine.

Benedict XVI’s Deus Caritas Est (2006) touches on the subject obliquely:

It is true that the pursuit of justice must be a fundamental norm of the State and that the aim of a just social order is to guarantee to each person, according to the principle of subsidiarity, his share of the community’s goods. This has always been emphasized by Christian teaching on the State and by the Church’s social doctrine. Historically, the issue of the just ordering of the collectivity had taken a new dimension with the industrialization of society in the nineteenth century.

For more on subsidiarity and a more explicit discussion of the welfare state, there’s John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus (1991):

In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.

By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. One thinks of the condition of refugees, immigrants, the elderly, the sick, and all those in circumstances which call for assistance, such as drug abusers: all these people can be helped effectively only by those who offer them genuine fraternal support, in addition to the necessary care.

“black pudding made with the Blood of the Lamb.”

Sacrilicious.

This whole “government theft” business doesn’t seem to bother the libertarian types much when that wealth is being redistributed to arms manufacturers and other wartime contractors.

Seriously, are there any big name libertarian pundits that were opposed to the Iraq War? You’d think people so concerned about the $10 of their taxes spent on welfare would have something to say about the hundreds of their dollars spent on painting schools and pulling down statues, not to mention the hundreds a year they’ll be paying for the rest of their lives for the interest we owe the Chinese. Yet most of them seem quite eager to move on to Iran.

Fine, you think the Iraq War was a swell idea, but there’s no denying that a vast amount of taxpayer money has been flat out funneled to well-connected corporations for doing shoddy work on a cost-plus basis, to say nothing of the billions that have simply fucking vanished into thin air. But ONOES some welfare queen thinks she’s gonna feed her kids? Not on my dime!

If you can’t spare 2% of your income to improve the lives of millions of your countrymen, you’re a selfish, greedy sack of shit. If, conversely, you have no trouble with a greater percentage flowing directly into the coffers of the wealthy, you’re simply a goddamn fuckwit.

Owlbear,
I like Pie, too, but his plate discipline is for shit. While his upside wasn’t anywhere near Corey Patterson’s, I was still hoping the Cubs would have more success in helping him control the strike zone so that he could turn out to have value approximating Patterson’s. Then again, when was the last quality minor league hitter the Cubs developed- Mark Grace? Holy crap, looking up their past rosters, I think Mark Grace might just be the last quality positional player the Cubs have developed!

They are the ultimate proponents of enabling one person (pre-person?) to live at the expens of another. I suspect Mr. Williams supports this involuntary asset transfer.

Actually, Williams doesn’t, but he doesn’t say it explicitly or very often in order not to upset his patrons.

Bubba, are you still righteous?

I’d like to see Doofus of Taxes R Evul Inc. live in a world without taxation. He wouldn’t be driving because there wouldn’t be any roads, at least paved ones. Hell, he’d be lucky to get a blazed trail. I suppose he could back in and out of his driveway repeatedly but then he wouldn’t have a car because taxes also fund corporations that build things like cars…. Oh dear. Shall we buy the man a horse?

Buying him a horse would be theft from us.

Could someone explain to me, by any chance, how it is that taxes are theft but killing living wages and plundering the pension fund is good business? For that matter, isn’t advertising theft, by making people spend money on stuff they don’t need?

What about the theft that created Williams’ “private property” in the first place?

“The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose.”

Now for the funny bit:
woozle-wuzzle

Unrelated: redonkulously cute kittay

Didn’t that crazy Jesus guy say something about selling your coat and giving the money to the poor?

Can’t cite chapter and verse – I’m just a pagan socialist, after all.

But I do know about the golden hemroids! (see, they had to make golden rats and golden hemroids to sacrifice to cure a plague of aformentioned rodents/lesions…)

Oh, and “cover your feet” was a euphemism for taking a dump.

Bubba, are you still righteous?

That Bubba ain’t me and is in fact more entitled to the name than I am, my appropriation of it being just a cheap joke.

I believe it is more harmful to our society to do “banking in another country” to avoid taxation than it is to, say, collect social security benefits because you had a rough go as a steelworker.

Excellent point, Bubba. One of the most annoying of the many annoying habits of these self-proclaimed Libertarians is their self-centered take on “patriotism”. Protesting an incursion into Iraq that’ll waste billions of tax dollars, not to mention thousands of American & uncounted Iraqi lives, plus America’s good standing in the global community — unpatriotic! Giving a foreign, not-necessarily America-friendly nation their banking dollars because they don’t want to carry their share of the “household expenses” — patriotic!!!1!

Walter Williams is a teenager who thinks we “need” a state-of-the-art Wii system and the biggest honkin’ HDTV system available no later than this weekend, because the Way Cool factor would make him King among Nerds. He proposes a down payment using the monthly mortgage, to be followed by pulling Granny out of that cushy nursing home & letting her die like Darwin intended, so we can sell her stuff to buy games & peripherals. But you’d better not talk about using his “private” bank account (much of it gifts from Granny & other ‘useless’ relatives), because *that* would be *theft*. As for the legality of letting Granny die — not to mention the possibility of losing the house — well, the legal issues will take months & months, during which the Way Cool toys will be entertaining us. And he’s assuming that he’ll be away at college, or something, by the time anything really annoying can happen, so who gives a damn, really?

Tragically, one of the irritants of living in a prosperous democracy is that we can’t insist WW and all his tough-talking Libertarian allies spend a few months doing actual work so they can finally understand why “I got mine, Jack, bugger you” is not the highest form of social utility. Despite Karl Rove’s paternal nuturance, six months or a year “doing construction work, roofing tar in the Arizona heat” would expand your average Libertarian’s social horizons no end.

There is a continuum of Righteousness.

Any given Bubba will fall somewhere on this continuum, based solely upon his, er, Righteousnessosity. Yeah.

Now our friend Righteous Bubba occupies the most Righteous end of the continuum of Righteousness-ness, while another Bubba will likely not even lay claim to Righteousness as a defining condition.

I submit that the Righteousness of any given Bubba is self evident…

mikey

I actually know someone who is younger than I am (I am 23) and his parents are helping him purchase a house. A FUCKING HOUSE.

And he has absolutely no humility whatsoever.

I don’t talk to him much.

Wow.. It’s like the church believes in that whole “give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” thing that Jesus said.

Stupid church… They keep listening to what Jesus said.

Ok.. except for the molesting kids thing. That they came up with on their own.

Mammaries! I like! Thanks for the Mammaries…

Oh you said Mammon.

Forgot my picture.

Mammon, dammit.

He is ignoring that property is theft.

And Jesus was pretty clear on the subject (Luke 14:33):

33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

So, wait, you’re saying that all bubbas possess some measure of righteousness, whether explicitly stated or not? Surely there are some bubbas who are not, in fact, righteous? Also, not all of the righteous are bubbas.

I propose that the bubba variable and the righteous variable are in fact two separate variables ranging from 0 to 1.

So, if you were to graph it out, with righteousness as x and bubbaness as y, Righteous Bubba would be placed near the upper right corner, while Bubba would be placed somewhat to the left. Classic Dead Milkmen album Beelzebubba is actually high in righteousness but low in bubba, and would therefore be placed near the lower right. Hubba Bubba gum is entirely lacking in bubba and only slightly righteous, so it lands somewhere toward the lower left.

So, where do you fall on the Jrod Scale of Righteous Bubbatude? For me, I put righteousness at about .25 (would be higher if not for all the crack) and bubbaness around .4, putting me somewhere around the left-middle of the chart.

Of course, if someone smarter than me could work some trigonometry into this, we’d be set.

Also someone smarter than me should remind me not to begin every other paragraph with so. Or any paragraphs, for that matter.

So.

So, if you were to graph it out, with righteousness as x and bubbaness as y, Righteous Bubba would be placed near the upper right corner,

No no no. As explained above, I am a virtual name-stealer. Even now some more righteous Bubba slouches towards Bethlehem to be born.

It’s been my experience that the wah wah tax crybabies are always the ones who yell the loudest if the cops aren’t at the door five minutes after they’re called, or if the streets are full of chuck holes. Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.

Makes me wish that these libertarian types would fall through into another dimension where socieity is exactly the way they think they want it. I bet 98% wouldn’t make it a week before they were crying for mommy. That would be a good Twightlight Zone episode.

What about the other two percent? (you didn’t ask, but I hate -ahem – loose threads.) The other two percent would thrive, being natural born killers.

The other two percent would thrive, being natural born killers.

Um…

Nope.

See, they’d be doin fine, kickin ass and takin names and workin out on the indigs n shit, but then they would decide the MARKET would take care of all their ammunition needs, and they’d get a drop of ammo, and it would be ten thousand rounds of 5.56 that came from the lowest bidder – who won the contract by leaving out the primers!

Annihilated without survivors, they never even understood their shortcomings…

mikey

So, to recap, Jesus hates taxes and whatever advantages you’ve gained from society don’t constitute a debt to repaid to the commonweal.

Charmingly Pauline, that.

Jrod:
As Mrs. Bubba says, “My Bubba is not so much righteous as he is Bubbalicious!”

Although I sincerely appreciate being placed on the left side of your graph. I reckon there are few Bubbas to the left of me in most things graphworthy.

One more note from this Bubba on this topic of these Ayn Rand types: I sincerely wish those that consider themselves John Galts would pack up and move themselves to some mystical mountain kingdom as in Atlas Shrugs. If I were to pop my head into that “Utopia” in, say, year 3, I doubt I’d find much of what Ms. Rand described; instead, I would predict the denizens would be long gone, removed from God’s Green Earth by cannibalism.

There are some places in the world that have no functional government. Strangely, libertarians have no urge to move to said hellholes and instead pretend the fruits of taxation they are accustomed to are a demonstration of capitalist grandeur.

A world of libertarianism would become The Lord of the Flies in short order.

Despite Karl Rove’s paternal nuturance, six months or a year “doing construction work, roofing tar in the Arizona heat” would expand your average Libertarian’s social horizons no end.
Sadly, no! It would just lead to another rant & whine about how people should shine their shoes, wash their hair & get a better job. Or how they shouldn’t have dropped out of school, so they could work hours of uncompensated overtime to get promoted. At best it would result in their begging for student loans so they could take Econ 101 over & over, until every one else got it right.

[E]lections are not coups
Travis: What Utopia do you know of you’re not sharing w/ us?

[…] more a humorous (and thorough) analysis, see Sadly, No! This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 5th, 2007 at 8:42 am by jcasey and is filed under […]

There are some places in the world that have no functional government. Strangely, libertarians have no urge to move to said hellholes and instead pretend the fruits of taxation they are accustomed to are a demonstration of capitalist grandeur.

It’s because they’re patriots, RB: they want to bring the perfect joy of a libertarian utopia here.

Okay, this is totally off topic, but it’s rare that you see Cheetos used as an assault weapon.

Snack attack leads to arrest.

Dang it, my linkie didn’t work. Let’s try that again.

Snack attack
leads to arrest.

Oh my Bob. I had hoped it was somewhere in the South. But Teh Iowahz? Oh noes! I has teh shame.

Cheeto dust and meth. A deadly combination.

A bag of Cheetos. So it was something like the old Police Squad! bit where the criminal hits Leslie Nielsen in the face with the wig. (You have to skip to almost the end of the clip- about 10:00).

Thanks for that, tb! (I guess you could say she “wigged” out.)

I thought the Cheetos story was interesting journalistically, since instead of Man Bites Cheetos, it’s Cheetos Bites Man!

(Okay, I’ll stop now.)

In Iowa, Cheetos bite you!

Also, there was a great short comic strip (by Evan Dorkin) that explores what happens in a book after the ending. Atlas Shrugged had the memorable “I don’t know how to make lunch. I only know how to pay people to invent stuff”.

“I am Andrew Ryan, and I’m here to ask you a question.
“Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
“No, says the man in Washington, it belongs to the poor.
“No, says the man in the Vatican, it belongs to God.
“No, says the man in Moscow, it belongs to everyone.”

>“No, says the man in Washington, it belongs to the poor Pentagon and corporate welfare.

Fixed.

Back to the top – Offshore banking is not a legitimate avoidance tool. Americans are taxed on their worldwide income. The only way taking your accounts offshore is going to save taxes is if it’s combined with concealing income.

Mr. Blue:

But Fontaine’s got the Adam, so I guess that makes him the guv’nor…

Righteous Bubba notes that not everyone everywhere pays taxes. In fact, there are several classes of people who haven’t, historically: Kings, high priests, highwaymen, barbarians, and the destitute. I wonder which of these the libertarians aspire to join.

No I don’t.

I AM CONAN! HEAR ME WHINGE!

When serving God, I think it’s best to accompany it with a crisp, dry white wine, like maybe a Pinot Grigio or Muscadet, to accent God’s rich, spicy flavor.

Taken communion lately? 🙂

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

A red wine is more traditional, being blood and all . . .

He is ignoring that property is theft.

I don’t think Christ was so clear but Proudhon was and wrote reams about why it was and you still wind up with libertarians consciously stealing from him and refusing to believe he wasn’t one of them.