I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Sifu Tweety make this same argument over at Das Poormensch. He’s returned to the topic several times, always thoughtfully, but definitely on the side of the “bad-idea-to-build-it-there-in-the-first-place” fence. Southern culture on the skids, though, snerk. Thanks for the crypto 90’s rock reference.

SCOTS is the loudest band i have ever heard – they were great (show with Neko Case – shes good too)

boxes of fried chicken heh

I’m trying to recall a less coherent CY post; I’m at a loss. He spoke to the Dean of an unamed southern university, and *poof* instant justification for telling NO residents to fuck off an die for being stupid enough to live on sand (as defined by the Bible of course), and besides, garble garble rubble rubble Obama = Osama yuk yuk.

And predictably, the knuckle-draggers who frequent the comment section don’t give a damn either way.

Let ’em drown, ’cause my taxes is too high as they is.

I knew it. The red states are outsourcing terrorism.

Let’s see if he can sell the idea that Atlanta shouldn’t have been rebuilt, because it was susceptible to being razed by General Sherman.

But the WaPo boards and so many other fucking places are full of wingnuts saying ‘let it sink’. I’m sure they’d say the same if the Big One hit SF. Curiously, though, they’re all for rebuilding Bumfuck, KS in tornado alley.

The wankee writes:

Instead we seem intent on enticing back the poor and the destitute with promises of rebuilding what should not be rebuilt, just to put their lives in danger once more.

Sadly, No.

No one could have anticipated that a disaster which removed much of the poor and inner city black population from a major port and tourist city with international fame for its aesthetic and lifestyle appeal would have also provided opportunities for investors hungering for said real estate.

Therefore, no one could have anticipated that Republicans were somehow less than able to restore the previous population of New Orleans to their former environs.

The Louisiana Purchase was all about New Orleans from the start, for the simple reason that if you are going to move massive amounts of agricultural products to market it works pretty damn well to float them on some water. Not as important to move corn and beans anymore from the midwest to the rest of the world, but looking ahead to the quickly approaching post-petroleum world, if the US is going to ever pay off it’s foreign debts it’s gonna need something to export. Seems to me that if the massive agricultural juggernaut that is flyover country is ever harnessed for it’s portable energy manufacturing capability you’re going to have to move the stuff (in whatever form it takes) to where people want to use it, and the same dynamic that prompted youthful America to want to buy New Orleans in the first place returns to the fore.

Is it a crappy place to put a city? You bet. Doesn’t limit the strategic importance, though.

Doesn’t limit the strategic importance, though.

Or cultural. It was in the right spot for a bunch of weird things to happen that made the world more interesting.

What credibility his argument might have, if you ignore the callous racism underneath it, is rather destroyed by his loud yellow circling of Lake Pontchartrain as if that’s where New Orleans once existed. Read a map much, Gomer?

Yup. It’s totally beyond human ingenuity to build dykes and waterways to reclaim land from the sea. That’s never been done anywhere. The bible says so.

Is he dumb or just ugly?

It’s totally beyond human ingenuity to build dykes and waterways to reclaim land from the sea

Yep. Holland and Venice are figments of my addled imagination.

Leave it to me to imagine vibrant, colorful places like that.

Seriously, you guys oughta at least vacation in mikey world…

mikey

“Is he dumb or just ugly?”

Um, is this multiple choice? Or an essay question?

If the U.S. doesn’t need New Orleans and the Gulf Coast in general, maybe they should just secede. Once farmers start howling about the cost of shipping their grain overseas thanks to the new tariffs placed upon their grain when it hits the port of New Orleans, once coffee drinkers and banana lovers nationwide start howling about the cost of coffee and bananas thanks to the new tariffs placed upon thier coffee and bananas when it hits the port of New Orleans, once SUV owners nationwide start howling about the $12/gallon cost of gasoline thanks to the new tariffs placed upon oil at Port Fouchon (where pretty much all overseas oil is unloaded onto American soil), maybe they’ll appreciate the fact that a port at the mouth of the nation’s mightiest river is not an “optional” thing, it’s as necessary today as it was when President Thomas Jefferson dispatched an emissary to purchase New Orleans from the French because of outrage over tariffs the French were placing upon Amrican commerce transshipping from barges to ocean-going vessels at the city. New Orleans is where it is not because of the perversity of its people, but because it has to be there.

Or maybe not. They’re wingnuts, after all. Logic and reason? Bwahahahah!

“Too much pork for just one fork.”
“Would you eat that snack cracker in your special outfit, just for me?”

I love SCOTS.

Treasonous Northerner, not so much.

It was in the right spot for a bunch of weird things to happen that made the world more interesting.

Vibrant communities generally sprout in places with at least some external risk: storms, flooding, earthquakes, the big fuck-off volcano that makes the soil really fertile. Show me a place that’s free from all hint of the elements asserting themselves, and I’ll show you somewhere that’s really fucking dull.

New Orleans is where it is not because of the perversity of its people…that’s just a nice bonus.

I personally love it when wingers invoke global warming to support their biblically-based theories.

One thing’s clear…CY’s head is made out of cement.

HBO has been repeating Spike Lee’s documentary, which features a visit to the Netherlands and thier vaunted dikes. It takes a lot of money, though, almost as much as we spend in Iraq in a month. New Orleans is a national treasure and is worth every cent.

Well, I thought it was just the micromandible, but the more he opines, the more I think he is, indeed, the Frank Burns of the intertubes.

I forgot to add: those comments over there contain a lot of veiled racism regarding “those people”.

Developers ravaging LA wetlands that used to serve as vital watershed? Yawnsville.

The Federal government gutting the budget that maintains the pumps and levees? Snoozer!

My tax dollars going to rebuild NO after the single largest disaster in US history, one which was largely the result of the previous two issues? HOWLS of outrage! Welfare state! Lazy poor people! Waaaaaaaah!

What? Why are you talking about the bridge collapse tragedy that
killed a bunch of hard-working commuters? How can that have anything to do with the black welfare cheats and evil gays in Sin City?

What is this “crumbling infrastructure” and “incompetant government” of which you speak? Your talk of “consequences” frightens and confuses us! Warren Terra will save us from your pitiful attempts to make us think! 9-11! 9-11!

FYI the HBO special is great – highly recommend it to those who can see it – i dont have TV but I stayed up until 3am in hotel one night on a business trip just to watch it

goosebumps, tears, anger, laughter, etc

Obscure comics quote:

“He looks like Freddy K’ueger.”

Ugluks Flea and Badtux hit the nail on the head here–it’s as though CY and the rest of the “let it sink” crowd think that New Orleans was established as a major city through some sort of misguided New Deal program, completely contrary to the market forces of nature. Uh, no, morons it’s the goddamn Mississippi River and the Gulf of Mexico.

Besides which, what’s the reason he wants everyone to leave, exactly? Is it coastline erosion or the threat of future storms?

If it’s coastline erosion, that’s not a new invention. People have been living in large numbers on coasts forever–adjustments are made. Even with global-warming driven sea level rise, we’re talking about something that happens on a decadal time scale, if that quickly. Mass evacuations seem sort of a weird way to handle that.

If it’s the threat of future storms, he should be reminded that Katrina wouldn’t have been particularly catastrophic if the levees had been properly maintained. And does he understand this would also mean advocating a mass exodus from basically the entire coastal Southeast, particularly Florida? For what, to avoid what usually amounts to a few dozen deaths each year?

I admit that at one point, I wondered if rebuilding New Orleans might be a mistake, given its sinking (and not in the name of abandoning residents). But to say that we should not rebuild it opens so many issues:

How does not having New Orleans affect the U.S. economy, not mention Louisiana’s? We saw the impact on gas prices after Katrina. Imagine a major port disappearing from our economic infrastructure.

How does the U.S. pay for the relocation of all the residents and the businesses? (I’m sure for our conservative friends, the answer is “we don’t.”)

New Orleans isn’t the only city that is lower than the sea level and threatened by a rising Gulf. For one, there are the nearby smaller towns, which you have to add to your relocation costs and whose losses also affect Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama.

Also, consider the fact that an overwhelming majorityHouston, which is below sea level, sinking, and facing a rising Gulf?

And if you want to talk about inevitable geological disasters, consider California and earthquakes.

The point is that this ‘cut and run’ idea merits very little consideration, especially when you consider the ramifications of such thinking. We had better figure out how New Orleans survives, or we’ll be talking about abandoning a lot of our coastal infrastructure.

ah, somehow that post was botched because I forgot a closing anchor element.

Also, consider the fact that the majority of the U.S. population lives on the coast.

Should we also consider abandoning Houston, which is below sea level, sinking, and facing a rising Gulf?

REAL shorter Confederate Yankee:

Don’t give my tax money to niggers.

Actually, this is the foundation for most of wingnuttia. The man is called “Confederate” Yankee, after all.

Geez, when did Detlef Schrempf lose a bunch of weight and go crazy?

The point is that this ‘cut and run’ idea merits very little consideration, especially when you consider the ramifications of such thinking.

This is very true, since the whole East is vulnerable to hurricanes, the Midwest to tornadoes, the whole Pacific Northwest from immense, cataclysmic volcano activity… not to mention other places with lesser disasters, killer heat waves, unremitting winters, vicious insects, and invading diseases. Whee! Shall we even mention ICBMs?

And if you want to talk about inevitable geological disasters, consider California and earthquakes.

Cut-n-run thinking about that, however, lead to the creation of perhaps my favorite Righteous Pigs track, “Dormant Catastrophe.”

Freeways bend like rubber bands
Buildings crumble, turn to sand
From the ocean, tidal waves
Millions killed, thousands saved
Thought about it for a hundred years
Thought about it and drank some beers
California was real close
But now Las Vegas is the coast

Dormant catastrophe
People to dumb to see
Every fucken day
California floats away…

Detlef Schrempf

Good call, however Detlef had actual talent.

Geez, when did Wallace Shawn lose a bunch of age and go crazy?

Will CY ask Halliburton to refund the no-bid contract money they received for Naval station reconstruction on the Gulf Coast, as well?

Yeah, and if Miami gets wiped out next hurricane season, why should we worry? Just a bunch of Cubans. South Florida and its 3 million inhabitants. yawn.
Or if global warming sends Manhattan underwater, it’s their fault for building on a low-lying island. How about those cities in the Midwest? tornado alley — all their fault for building in such a place — what were they thinking? Anywhere in the desert regions of the country — New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, SoCal, water shortages — hey, if they can’t afford desalination, eff them.
Or earthquakes and — of course all of California. Tsunamis, same thing. Mount Ranier or Mount Hood blowing up and destroying Seattle or Portland.
Have I missed any place and potential natural disasters?
Shorter CY: Frag em all.

hmm. ass of spades has filtered my email address so that I can’t leave comments on his piece of shit blog. It was really hard to change the address to another that I own, so that I could post this:

man, I’m pretty used to the abject stupidity, sexism and jingoism that passes for intelligent debate around here, but damn, what a bunch of heartless dicks you are.

“I don’t care too much about NO personally”. Of course you don’t, you pampered, basement-dwelling piece of dirt. Nothing affects you, much like the Iraq war, as long as you aren’t personally involved.

Geez. Amazing how people at ass of spades keep sinking to new depths.

keep it up! it’s only a matter of time till you call for the torture and deaths of everyone not you.

sheesh.

Yes!!! Detlef!!! Thank you so much, it was driving me crazy trying to figure out who he reminded me of. Do Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp have blogs too? Now those are guys who need platforms.

At least Detlef had the commitment to rock the mullet–I call sellout on CY’s ‘do.

Returning to the let-it-sink argument–what it ultimately amounts to is that they don’t believe government (or humanity) should respond to disasters in any way, period, because it creates “perverse incentives.” It’s brain-dead, utterly nuance-free econ101-ism carried to its greatest extreme.

Show me a place that’s free from all hint of the elements asserting themselves, and I’ll show you somewhere that’s really fucking dull.

South Dakota.

Good lord, the idiot just posted in his own comments that what he really meant was that the good people of New Orleans should just move to higher ground.

Because obviously, there’s a lot of higher ground around there. And moving a 300 year old city of city 350,000 people would be easy compared to buildinga few levees correctly.

I think this one needs a revisit, Gavin.

Every time you post this picture of the dude with the hearth-brush toupee, it reminds me of the Hans-my-Hedgehog episode from The Storyteller.

“New Orleans was wearing a short skirt and deserved what it got,” as Dan Perkins put it.

Show me a place that’s free from all hint of the elements asserting themselves, and I’ll show you somewhere that’s really fucking dull.

Canberra. City in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, full of fardling government weevils, and about as exciting as a filing cabinet.

Oh, no, it had bushfires. Does that mean it’s disqualified? Rats.

New Orleans is built upon an even more unstable soil, silt, that is constantly compacting and sinking. What’s more, that sinking, unstable soil is in a bowl below sea-level surrounded by the Mississippi River, the Gulf of Mexico, and Lake Pontchartrain, bodies of water that are eating away the coastline at a rate of 25 square miles or more each year.

He is of course correct. I guess I just missed the part where we had a public discussion on what to do about it rather than leave thousands hanging on to empty promises and failed governmental services.

Ugluks Flea said:
Seems to me that if the massive agricultural juggernaut that is flyover country is ever harnessed for it’s portable energy manufacturing capability you’re going to have to move the stuff (in whatever form it takes) to where people want to use it, and the same dynamic that prompted youthful America to want to buy New Orleans in the first place returns to the fore.

Unfortunately in 30 to 40 years you won’t be able to grow wheat in the continental US. Sorry folks but there is a reason the Bush family bought land in Paraguay and it has little to do with oil. The mother of all fold catastrophes has our name on it and is headed our way. You might as well throw rocks at an aircraft carrier for all the good current ideas about trying to effect global climate change will do.

It is very likely that we are already past the tipping point.

It is somewhat up for grabs whether or not the human species will even survive.

Well, yeah, sure, noen, but on the downslope there’ll be anarchy and chaos, looting and hiwaymen, pirates and theives, rapists and sadists, guns and bombs and an “eat the weak and kill the powerful” mindset that just might be a laugh a minute…

What? Just sayin…

mikey

You forgot zombies, there’s gotta be zombies in there somewhere.

Canberra. City in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, full of fardling government weevils, and about as exciting as a filing cabinet.
Once upon a time I spent 9 weeks there on a training course. If Cronenberg filmed High Rise, it would feel like Canberra.
Good beers at The Wig & Pen, however.

Vibrant communities generally sprout in places with at least some external risk: storms, flooding, earthquakes, the big fuck-off volcano that makes the soil really fertile. Show me a place that’s free from all hint of the elements asserting themselves, and I’ll show you somewhere that’s really fucking dull.

Calgary, Alberta
Aberdeen, Scotland
Perth, Australia
Singapore

Calgary, Alberta

It’s pretty goddamned dull there, but the elements do indeed assert themselves.

New York City, London, Paris, Rome, and Moscow all have quiet natural surroundings, hence their longevities as vibrant cities. You simply cannot have an “eternal city” near too many natural hazards. (Try to ask the citizens of Pompeii.)

New Orleans throbbed for the same reason New York does: it’s a riverport, the gateway to the far inland unknown. It attracts and retains the ultimate in risk-takers: captains, explorers, traders, adventurers. This culture long outlasts its origins, because humans are almost mindlessly conservative about the cultures we practice. (Look at all of the effort we waste on preventing gay marriage, an innovation that harms no one and has many benefits.) The levees which protected New Orleans were maintained by a patchwork of governments, and each entity did a less-than-perfect job all by itself; in concert, it became a “somebody else’s problem” chorus. As a major port city, the federal government should maintain all of the levees, to Dutch standards. Anything else just presages another failure.

“New York City, London, Paris” talk about Pop Muzik.

A thread that includes Southern Culture (great song apropos of CY: “White Trash”) AND Detlef Schrempf (aka the German Herr Doktor J of the 80s)? This is some great cultural minutiae cross-referencing going on here – like Dennis Miller when he was still funny, before 9/11 got him all a-scairt and willing to bend over to whatever Daddy figure will keep his little spoiled snotnoses safe.

I cranked up the SCOTS on Yahoo music – gotta love a band that produces songs like “Banana Puddin’ ” or “Dirt Track Date”

Legalize said,

August 30, 2007 at 17:39

I’m trying to recall a less coherent CY post; I’m at a loss. He spoke to the Dean of an unamed southern university, and *poof* instant justification for telling NO residents to fuck off an die for being stupid enough to live on sand (as defined by the Bible of course), and besides, garble garble rubble rubble Obama = Osama yuk yuk.

You say Osama
And I say Obama
You say Yo-Yo Ma
And I say “Yo’ mama!”
Obama, Osama,
Yo-Yo Ma, yo’ mama,
Let’s call the whole thing off!

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