Why should I want to live forever in a universe that’s populated by these kinds of transpeople?

Because once you’ve gone trans, you’ll never go back.

WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE?! They have CONFERENCES for this babbling insane bullshit?!? Is Karl Pilkington a keynote speaker or something??

Yeah, let’s see who’s laughing when they’re all looking out from some Windows box and we hold our fingers on the power switch.

So, to sum up; their ideal future involves all of them being permanently ensconced in a digital realm, like the Sims or the Matrix; while our future involves being corporeal, dealing with life’s problems and just…turning them off when we’ve had enough ‘heh. Indeed.’ Sounds a LOT like The Marching Morons. Not that I’m against it. It sounds like an excellent solution.

Hey, wasnt I the one in a recent thread who said we should start a fund to put all of them into computers as soon as possible?

My nominees for the process? Warbloggers! Let’s grant Ace, Glenn Reynolds and Confederate Yankee their ultimate wish and upload them into a giant computer!

We don’t need to spend several hundred dollars on a computer to run that software. I think you could write a BASIC program for a Vic 20. Let’s try:

10 IF POSTER$=”MICHELLEMALKIN” THEN PRINT “INDEED.”

20 IF POSTER$=”SCRAPPLEFACE” THEN PRINT “HEH”

30 IF POSTER$=”LIBERAL” THEN PRINT “ISLAMIST”

40 GOTO 10

There. I’ve got Reynolds taken care of.

I do like that he equates belief in democracy with Marxism. That makes sense.

It’s no wonder transhumanists are mostly libertarian – they assume that they’ll be running things. Unfortunately for most of them, they couldn’t run a See-And-Say without handholding, so they’re destined for lives as automatic blenders.

‘I would love to make you a margerita! Heh! Indeed!’

Why would anyone want to be governed by a majority of stupid people, he wondered.

A very pertinent question in this America, where we’ve elected GWB twice.

LOL. That’s pretty good, Nobody. But you presume they’ve got more than one setting, which I don’t believe they’ve demonstrated. Full-bore fear is the only setting they seem to have.

An excellent idea. My nominees for the process? Warbloggers! Let’s grant Ace, Glenn Reynolds and Confederate Yankee their ultimate wish and upload them into a giant computer! They could spend eternity playing World of Warcraft while examining virtual kernings to reveal wicked MSM LIES about the Iraq war, which by then will be in its 2,354th year. Beam ‘em up, Scotty!

Hobbitses…

Interesting question “Why would anyone want to be governed by a majority of stupid people?” Would they rather be governed by a minority of stupid people?

Nobody wants to be governed by stupid people, whether it’s a majority, an oligarchy, a monarchy or a committee elected bi-weekly by an anarcho-syndicalist commune. The problem is twofold: One, these guys have a very peculiar definition of “stupid people,” which translates to “people who disagree with me about how the world ought to operate.” Two, the only answer they can come up with is to prevent stupid people (as they have defined them) from participating in government, which by logical extension would leave only the “smart” people to govern themselves and the stupid people alike. How convenient.

Libertarians are anarchists who want police protection for their slaves.

Democracy, clearly, is for Marxists. Indeed.

What grave? I, for one, plan on being cremated and having the ashes scattered into the ocean. One thousand years from now, people could very well be drinking water containing molecules that used to compose my armpits.

“WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE?! They have CONFERENCES for this babbling insane bullshit?!? Is Karl Pilkington a keynote speaker or something??”

You’ve got to admit, if he were a keynote speaker, it would be a fucking funny conference.

Why should I want to live forever in a universe that’s populated by these kinds of transpeople?

I think Sartre already wrote this book.

Wow. That is P-Stupid. Uncut stupid. DA BOMB. I especially like the part where Teh Stupid, having be transmutated into 1’s and 0’s, will be spread out like dandilion seeds through the universe. Damn. Do you think when some alien race encounters Glenn-bot it will be like that Star Trek where Kirk had the battle of wits with the robot that destroyed civilizations because they were imperfect? “You have made an error. YOU are imperfect..ERRRRR…a troop-hating Islamofacistdefeatocrat!”

Upload them into a supercomputer? You could upload them into a flashlight. Or maybe a digital watch, which could then be wrong lots more than twice a day — far beyond the number of times indicated by sheer chance, in fact.

Come on, play nice. I used to correspond with the cryogenics-institute crowd, and they weren’t bad people, just misguided. They were geeks and weirdos at heart, and I felt that we should stick together. Of course, that was 30 years ago, and my correspondents could be in liquid-nitrogen limbo by now.

Ah, Marvin Minsky. He’s spent the last 4 or 5 decades predicting the arrival of artificial intelligence within 15 years (come to think of it, a Minsky Unit would be the ideal term to describe that period of time). In most areas of science, 5 decades of making consistently wrong predictions would detract from your credibility, but the rules are different in AI. Anyway, 50 years ago Minsky invented confocal microscopy, so I am happy to make allowances for him.

Seriously: learning how to love deeply and ethically requires embracing love while acknowledging our finitude and mortality. This is how one becomes fully human.

I guess there’s really no disagreement from the tranny side; after all, they don’t want to be human. (I think “post-human” is far too kind for them, though, since they’ve hardly plumbed the depths of human experience and found it wanting. I think they want to circumvent humanity. Maybe someone can come up with a better name for the apostles of the singularity. Nihilistic selfish infantile monsters is all I can think of, and that’s not too catchy.)

The fact is, that I will dance on your graves, liberals. I will be an immortal child of mind while you eat each other to survive.

You see, as a computer, they can code in that third leg they’ve always been dreaming about.

I always find the persistence of the Minsky/Kurzweil “AI’s just around the corner!” crowd amusing. According to these people, A.I. has been perpetually “around the corner” for the last 50 years, and we still lack so much as an efficient cognitive-linguistic model for understanding human speech.

I don’t have any qualms with A.I. research in general. I only think a technology oriented angle for the research is a better fit. That is, we shouldn’t be aiming to emulate natural intelligence, we should keep our eye on more narrow focuses and specific applications.

Ok, first of all, this is EXACTLY why it pisses me off that I didn’t go to college. I want to work in a field where I can casually refer to shit like “confocal microscopy”. Or “dodecahedral topology”. Or “interstitial crystallographic defects”. That would be cool [/buttheadvoice]

Second, as usual, the good Doktor has a very good idea. As it has become widely accepted that one Friedman Unit (FU) is six months, I am captivated by the concept of naming other units of time in a corresponding fashion. I’ll accept the Minsky Unit. But here’s the problem. I’m trying to figure out what would constitute the Mikey Unit (MU). Four months between dates? 24 hours between bowel movements? 20 minutes between scotches? If I can’t have a “unit” of my own – er – you know what I mean – then I don’t wanna play…

mikey

I have an old 486DX PC in the closet that should be able to accommodate the minds of the wingnuts. 8 megs of RAM and 256 megs of disk space is all they’re collectively gonna need.

The concept of libertarians spreading out digitally into the universe is hilarious.

More likely they will encounter another digital intelligence, and be bounced out of existence by the alien version of an Norton Utilities.

How will disembodied computer programs dance on my grave? Not that I haven’t already beaten them to it, because I went out and did a jig after I bought my plot a couple of years back.

The fact is, that I will dance on your graves, liberals.
Ah, but what dance? That makes all the difference. I can, for instance, cope with the prospect of Gary performing a sprightly gavotte on my grave, while a computer-incarnated Glenn Gould plays Bach’s 2nd French Suite. But I beg, on bended knee, no break-dancing.

Ever since reading about confocal microscopy [mumble mumble Scientific American mumble], I live for these rare opportunities to lead the conversation in the right direction and then casually drop the phrase — giving the impression that I know what I’m talking about.

Warbloggers! Let’s grant Ace, Glenn Reynolds and Confederate Yankee their ultimate wish and upload them into a giant computer!

…and then place a BIG magnet right next to it.

Thanks for using my Cyberglenn picture! that made my day!

Maybe this is really about a future where they can play their MMORPGs for real–where you can kill a billion uploaded people literally by pushing a button. Stupid people, of course.

Yeah, let’s see who’s laughing when they’re all looking out from some Windows box and we hold our fingers on the power switch.

Wouldn’t being in a Windows box be punishment enough?

Four months between dates?

You’re doing a lot better than me, then. [sob, choke]

Would you give up your immortality to ensure the success of a posthuman world?

Why yes. I’ve got it in the storage room and if it’ll help, it’s yours. For a fee.

Hmm. Looks kinda dinged up. How about those fireplace tools. Whaddaya want for those?

mikey

I’m trying to figure out what would constitute the Mikey Unit (MU).

As I understand it, the So-&-So time-unit is defined as So-&-So’s default period of procrastination. If, for instance, you are in the habit of promising your boss or clients (as the case may be) that “the job will be finished next week, honest!”, then the MU becomes 7 days.
Apparently the Bimler Unit is actually negative. “I finished it last week; it’s in the mail!”

So, anyone supporting democracy is a Marxist? Awesome! 🙂

MODERAN.

GET THESE GUYS WHILE YOU CAN!! I HAVE COME FROM THE FUTURE AND THE WARS BETWEEN GLENNBOT, ORGANIC MACHINE(FORMERLY CONFEDERATE YANKEE), THEIR COHORTS AND THE LAST REMAINING HUMANS ARE HORRIFIC!! PLEASE DO SOMETHING– MEANWHILE, I’LL DOING LINDA HAMILTON….

Not that I haven’t already beaten them to it, because I went out and did a jig after I bought my plot a couple of years back.

I f I ever get a plot, I’m doing that. Great idea, sir.

I would think that a Mikey unit is the length of time between one Glenlivet and the next. (I kid because I love…)

And I have to say that as the only real tranny that posts here, as far as I know, I feel more and more normal every time I read about these “transhumanists”. They have no f*cking idea what they’re talking about in the least. we are deeply social animals and making comparatively minor changes, like coming out gay or changing one’s gender, has huge psychological consequences. I predict that the moment a mind really is successfully uploaded (if it ever happens) it will promptly go insane.

I’d also like to put a plug in for one of my favorite SF writers Peter Watts. In his latest book “Blindsight” the central characters’ mother makes the leap to silicon life. Unfortunately, some real aliens show up, humanity shits it’s collective pants and pulls the plug.

“…the philosophy of progress was exactly the philosophy to suit a society eager to enjoy the material prosperity derived from technical progress. When we are assured that tomorrow, in the natural order of events, will be better than today, we can enjoy ourselves in peace. Progress, paradoxically, can be used to justify conservatism. A draft drawn on confidence in the future, it allows the master to have a clear conscience. The slave and those whose present life is miserable and who can find no consolation in the heavens, are assured that at least the future belongs to them. The future is the only kind of property that the masters willingly concede to the slaves”… (Camus, The Rebel).

Perfecting artificial intelligence?We haven’t even perfected organic intelligence fercrisesakes.

Oh,but having a hobby is important,and can be fun.

Wow … the most pathetic thing about Minsky’s comment is that his work on AI is predicated on the idea that our minds are made up of a multitude of simple, mindless entities which combine into a Society of the Mind (he’s refered to it as Parliament of the Mind too).

Smart Minsky: “What magical trick makes us intelligent? The trick is that there is no trick. The power of intelligence stems from our vast diversity, not from any single, perfect principle.” (Society of the Mind)

Contrasted with …

Stupid Minsky: … Minsky explained that he thought that democracy was not such a good idea. Why would anyone want to be governed by a majority of stupid people, he wondered.

Sometimes intelligence, like talent, fades away.

“The future is the only kind of property that the masters willingly concede to the slaves”
That takes me back a few years, to the time when the phrase “owning the problem” entered the lexicon of Corporate-speak bureaubabble. No matter how poor a group might be, they always had the consolation of being allowed to own a problem.

“I have an old 486DX PC in the closet that should be able to accommodate the minds of the wingnuts. 8 megs of RAM and 256 megs of disk space is all they’re collectively gonna need.”

Hey, 640KB ought to be enough for anybody!

WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE?! They have CONFERENCES for this babbling insane bullshit?!? Is Karl Pilkington a keynote speaker or something??

Sure! Every year at the end of August, they have a conference in Vegas–usually in the same hotel and during the same weekend as the Survivors of Alien Abduction Support Group. Think Liberace with no talent and atrocious taste in foil-trimmed Spandex jumpsuits.

According to Arthur C Clarke, in the book version of 2001: A Space Odyssey, Marvin Minsky is the man whose brilliant insights led to the development of the HAL9000 computer.

Imagine Mr. Reynolds pleading with Dr. Bimler to sit down, take a stress pill, and think things over . . .

I’m afraid. I’m afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I’m a… fraid.

The Computer is your friend. Always trust the computer.

The only sure prediction about people of the future is that they’ll probably be as amazing and as fucked up in their own way as we are (and have been).

Perfect computers my ass. We can’t even dream up *gods* better than us and those don’t require any maintenance at all (though I guess they sometimes get hungry (or horny)).

Libertarians are anarchists who want police protection for their slaves.

Oooh! That’s a good one, right up there with Bob Black’s definition of a Libertarian as “a conservative who smokes pot”. I like.

Jeez, I thought that those on the left would be a little more future-oriented.

Yeah, y’know what? Yank me, Chucko.

I READ your damn Libertarian SF and the great majority of it sucks pig meat. “Future oriented” my red baboon ASS. What you guys do is take a standard neo-conservative American culture, smear it out into multiple solar systems then layer on a generous helping of KEWL TECHNOLOGY to hide the attitude that humans of the Technocratic Solar Empire of 3500 AD are no different than your Extropian buddies. Warbloggers with nanotech, OOH, gimme some more ‘o THAT, not.

SF is supposedly a “literature of the imagination”, but SO MANY writing it these days seem to have their imagination on a Libertarian leash. So much of it seems to be no better than Tom Clancy militarowanking with FTL drives and plasma rifles. (And is it just me, or do conservative SF writers seem to have a serious problem with creating real characters and believable dialogue?)

Give me some speculation on different societies, economies, languages, sexual relations, a future with NO WAR! Maybe even, like in Iain M. Banks’ “The Culture” series, a decent livable command economy. Give me more REAL “literature of the imagination” like MacLeod and Banks and LeGuin and Alstair Reynolds and John C. Wright write (wright write right?) and we’ll talk. Otherwise you can take your John Ringos and Jerry Pournelles and insert them into your little black hole.

I just realized – we weren’t talking there about science fiction but about “real-life” Extropians waitin’ for their Nerd Rapture.

Same thing, pretty much. What gets written as fiction is pretty much what gets discussed about at their conferences, and the one feeds into the other. Back in the Fifties you had people in SF stories calculating spaceship navigation routes with slide rules ’cause the writer couldn’t anticipate computers smaller than an entire wing of a building.

The blind spots they have in real life get mirrored in their fiction, and it’s no suprise that these guys have a big ol’ blind spot for any economy, political system, or set of sexual realtions that doesn’t fit their preconcieved notions of How Things Are.

Point is, I don’t expect to see a discussion of, say, how AI systems might enable a working command economy (like in Banks’ Culture stories) at these conferences any time soon.

Just as the extinction of larger animals followed in the wake of human migration, the rise of AI will probably lead to the fall of humanity. Moore’s law is playing out with a depressing inevitability in the hardware department – software engineering hasn’t kept up as much though.

I highly recommend Hans Moravec’s book “Robot”. It’s a fascinating and freewheeling account of his and others robotics research, a history of computing platforms (including the brains of various animals including man), and an inventory of where we are and where we are possibly going with AI. Hans is something of an optimist, but even his vision is rather dismal.

Vivoleum!

Today’s Soylent Green.

“If we are the only intelligence in the universe, then we are obligated to ensure that the universe remains meaningful,” said Minsky.

How’s that for the ultimate in human hubris? The only way the universe has meaning is if there are humans infesting it’s every nook, cranny, and armpit. Try this one on Bucko, “meaning” is a concept created by humans; it means nothing when discussing universes. These guys see “meaning” as what occurs when their sainted intellects are involved, otherwise it is teh stoopid.

Riiiiiight.

Ahh yes,Vivoleum,a great product.Really handy for those dystopian power outages,smells a little funky though.