The plans are already being made.

Damn, t4toby. Just when I thought I had seen most of the truly appalling stuff, you bring fresh dread into my day.

800 camps, huh? Dude knows all about them? Why doesn’t he tell us where they actually ARE, then? I mean, this administration is scary ’cause it’s batshit insane, cares little for the rule of law or American values and has indicated a willingness to operate on an authoritarian basis. But some of this stuff is just nightmare fever dreams of paranoid loonies and black helicopter types:

The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from
the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby. The majority of
the camps can house a population of 20,000 prisoners. Currently, the
largest of these facilities is just outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. The
Alaskan facility is a massive mental health facility and can hold
approximately 2 million people.

A “facility” that can hold over TWICE the population of San Jose, CA? What kind of facility would that be? For that matter, the entire population of Greater Fairbanks is only 51,000. When these people can give me the address of these camps or find them on Google Earth I’ll be a little more concerned…

mikey

Damn. I thought this thread was gonna be about Gary Ruppert Rupert Murdoch trying to buy teh WSJ. And I had all my “best” Aussie stereotypes all dusted off.
Well, g’day to you, sir!

9 out of 10 Thomas Sowells agree!

A “facility� that can hold over TWICE the population of San Jose, CA? What kind of facility would that be? For that matter, the entire population of Greater Fairbanks is only 51,000.

I dunno, mikey. Mebbe it involves a shrinking ray, or a couplo o’ TARDISes or sumpthin’. Disturbing if true!1!

“When these people can give me the address of these camps or find them on Google Earth I’ll be a little more concerned…”

Duh, they’re invisible, and use P.O. boxes. Not a complex concept, mikey.

They miiiiight wanna update their site to something more advanced then, “Mid 90’s high school class project” visuals.

Maybe I am a raving moonbat, but if you had read through the entire link, it lists all of the ‘known’ facilities.

All it would take is an executive order to instate martial law.

Judge for yourself.

The sad thing is how many people probably look at this essay and say, it’s long, it’s by a Harvard prof, and it namechecks Aristotle. Must be Wise and True, instead of a big heaping pile of bullshit that’s been piled on top of a corpse to mask the stink of death.
The phrase “checks and balances” is glaring in its absence from this drivel.
And Locke’s opinions are not legally binding.
the fuck

Oh, sure. I’ve been well aware that that kind of stuff was but an executive order away since, at least, the Reagan administration. And, it’s spooky, spooky stuff. But there’s no *way* that someone plopped any kind of facility down near Fairbanks capable of holding 2 million people without someone noticing. Just sayin’.

And t4toby, it summarizes many executive orders, without quotes or links. There’s a style of writing I’m going to call paranoiese which that link is a good example of.
To paraphrase mikey, the burden of proof for claims such as these is highly elevated. There’s a lot of take one man’s interpretations/word for what’s in certain documents in there. And I won’t.
Which isn’t to say that I haven’t heard rumors like these before. There was some sort of feasibility study contract that surfaced last year, but I’m not ready to believe they’re gonna get me. If anything, it gives em way too much credit.

I’m sorry, but we’ve got a whole lot of indisputable stuff in front of us right now. It’s not like we need to go looking under various beds for the monsters. They really did eliminate habeous corpus right out there in the light of day, complete with open debate and press reporting.

Sure, they could declare martial law and start rounding us up. But the military would balk in most cases. There would be a chaotic week and the leadership would be killed or detained and Nancy Pelosi would be interim president. A lot of people would get hurt/killed, but it’s really not something I believe Americans would allow. And like I say, there are a bunch of things we KNOW about that are terrifying in their own right…

mikey

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

2 million? Highly dubious. But does that mean there isn’t at least a grain of truth in it? I’m not sure.

So I present this information for what it is. I think it relates to the idea of a Unitary Executive and the need for energy (nice double entandre).

And I will now accept, forever more, the relegation of my credibility on this site to the moonbat dustbin.

The Lady Harvey doth protest too much.

But I still love celery.

The sad thing is how many people probably look at this essay and say, it’s long, it’s by a Harvard prof, and it namechecks Aristotle. Must be Wise and True

This is what really pisses me off about the current “intellectual” leadership of the conservative movement (currently run by neocons). They pray on the blood thirst of the racists, the naivete of middle-class boomers, the ignorance of apolitical assholes and the gullibility of insecure dweebs. It goes on and on. It’s all a pose. So many seemingly “nice” people can be talked into supporting tyranny and they won’t acknowledge it or even recognize it. It must be something about their class and wealth that fools people.

but it’s really not something I believe Americans would allow

I hear ya. But then again, I would have predicted several years ago that nullifying the bulk of the bill of rights would be something Americans wouldn’t allow . . .

Many of the executive orders cited in that screed — at least the first dozen or so, which is all I checked — have been revoked by later EOs. Many of them were revoked by the EO setting up FEMA, but the text of that one doesn’t say anything about the gummint seizing anything. I am beginning to think those people are not exactly operating at the top of their game.

a different brad:

And Locke’s opinions are not legally binding.

Mansfield (my emphasis):

Locke adds other related powers to the subordinate power of executing the laws: the federative power dealing with foreign affairs, which he presents as conceptually distinct from the power of executing laws but naturally allied; the veto, a legislative function; the power to convoke the legislature and to correct its representation should it become corrupt; and above all, the prerogative, defined as “the power of doing public good without a rule.” Without a rule! Even more: “sometimes too against the direct letter of the law.”

To find these last, highlighted phrases in Article II of the U.S. Constitution, be sure to put on your Super Unitary Executive Hidden Text Discernment Goggles.

Harvey Mansfield is a senile, demented fuckwit. I pity his students at Harvard, or I would if I thought any students ever came into actual contact with him. I’m sure his TAs do all his ‘teaching.’

Glenn Greenwald was also very good on this today.

There is only one response to this nonsense, and it’s not hard, and when most people, even politically uninformed people hear it, they understand and agree with it.

No one, not even the President, is above the law.

Keep repeating it. Because the majority of the citizens in this country agree.

Harvard and our friend “The Commander” have a long history, going back to bail-out-my-shitty-oil-company-with-your-endowment days.

good times. i guess those pricks at harvard knew something in 1990 when they saved the career of a coke-addict 3 time oil well dry loser.

Dr. mansfield, any thoughts?

I couldn’t get past the second paragraph without retching.
I think a better “shorter” would have to be;
Law
Hu!
What is it good for?
Absolutely Nuthin!

or

It’s good to be the king.

The Founding Fathers were moral relativists.
There is a hidden amendment in the Constitution that says:
Any provision of this document may abridged by a Republican administration provided, Harvey Mansfield Professor of Government at Harvard University, agrees.

Y’all are just reading the Constitution exoterically.

A proper (to the reading of Prof. Dr. Mansfield) understanding of classical natural right will reveal that…

Every dangerous external or internal enemy is inventive to the extent that he is capable of transforming what, on the basis of previous experience, could reasonably be regarded as a normal situation into an extreme situation. Natural right must be mutable in order to cope with the inventiveness of wickedness. What cannot be decided in advance by universal rules, what can be decided in the critical moment by the most competent and most conscientious statesmen on the spot, can be made visible as just, in retrospect, to all.

And, as is usually the case with such texts, don’t forget the footnote:

As for the other principles of right which Aristotle recognized, it must suffice here to note that, according to him, a man who is not capable of being a member of civil society is not necessarily a defective human being; on the contrary, he may be a superior human being.

When I was at Harvard I audited a course with Mansfield, George Will (?) and Michael Sandel. Sandel was by far the most impressive, and at one point he deadpanned “George is an interesting conservative to argue with because sometimes he can actually be so reasonable.” Mansfield, [Gomer] surprise, surprise [/Gomer], was effeminate, snide, and not nearly as impressive with his Aristophanes and De Tocqueville references as he thought himself to be (he basically depends on you not having read them– when you have they turn out to be textual aluminum tubes for uranium).

But some of this stuff is just nightmare fever dreams of paranoid loonies and black helicopter types

I think that list, or at least parts of it, are from the paranoia classic Behold a Pale Horse, which is a fairly entertaining read in its craziness.

Harvey “Manliness” Mansfield is effeminate and snide? Huh. I always pictured him John Wayning it up around campus, at least until evening comes, and with it a couple of Scotches, and then the inevitable drunken lipsynching to Bonnie Tyler’s “I Need a Hero.”

You know, this blog is not going to be able to call itself a fringe left site if it can’t even accept a good conspiracy theory.

What would the LGF crowd do then?

Stephen Colbert sits down with Harvey “Manly Man of Manliness” Mansfield.

You want quality conspiracy theory? Check out 4/29 Truth.

Lots of rich, creamy madness over there at 429truth, but this may be the bestest bit of rightwing paranoia:

“G-A-Y� is spelled “429″ on a standard American telephone. The attacks occurred only 8.5 miles from the notorious Castro Street homosexual district. COINCIDENCE?

Well, I for one certainly think not!!

mikey

Now that’s a good conspiracy theory! It’s so complex I don’t even know what happened.

Sure, they could declare martial law and start rounding us up. But the military would balk in most cases.

(cough) Blackwater (cough)

I would like to claim my ahead-of-the-curve merit badge now.

From 4/29Truth:

The aptly named “Protein Wisdom� has speculated that the collapse was the result of a missile strike.

“Who is responsible for this terrible tragedy?� we must ask who stood to gain the most. George Soros? The California Department of Transportation? The Jews?

Who, indeed…

i had no idea that San Francisco was nuked! And to think I was worried about a couple of hundred detention centers!

That’s a pretty crazy example, Mikey, but I don’t think that’s even the craziest. My favorite is this one:

The name “Macarthur Maze� has 13 letters. Element 13 is Aluminum, an ingredient in Thermite. Aluminum oxide was discovered all over the scene, indicating a massive thermal event involving large amounts of aluminum. Unlike hydrocarbon fire, aluminothermic reactions can fuse steel or destroy it entirely. The police refuse to question Custom Alloy, a pro-aluminum corporation based within easy artillery range of the overpass.

What the motherfuck is this guy talking about?

He’s kidding.

not nearly as impressive with his Aristophanes and De Tocqueville references as he thought himself to be (he basically depends on you not having read them

Now that’s a coincidence. (Or is it?) When I discuss things with wingnuts, they don’t seem to want to talk to me after they found out I’ve actually read things like “Common Sense,” The Constitution, the christian bible, The Federalist Papers, Eichmann in Jerusalem, or DeTocqueville’s Democracy In America. (I love where DeTocqueville talks about the 1830s American attitude toward the separation of church and state. Those people had real piety, not like “fundamentalist” assholes today, and they were all gung ho for church/state separation.)

Aristophanes I haven’t found nearly as useful in arguing with wingnuts. Maybe I should find some wingnuts who wear their pseudo-intellects on their sleeves?

I particularly liked “[the law] is inferior to the living intelligence of a wise man on the spot”. Mr Mansfield has a far broader definition of “wise” than I do, obviously.

he police refuse to question Custom Alloy, a pro-aluminum corporation based

I’ve never trusted pro-aluminum companies. If the company isn’t pro-nickel or at least pro-chromium, they ain’t shit…

mikey

Sure, they could declare martial law and start rounding us up. But the military would balk in most cases.

(cough) Blackwater (cough)

Nope, that’s a non-starter. Pretty much everybody in uniform has served in iraq at this point. I can guarantee you that most of them don’t really like the overpaid, above the law mercenaries. If the PSCs started doing the roundups, the uniformed military will be even MORE likely to come out of barracks and put an end to it.

You never know for sure how the military is going to react to a coup, but with the oath being to protect and defend the constitution, I am certain that there are a whole bunch of Majors, Cap’ns and Lite Colonels that will at least refuse to deploy and at best roll out in support of the opposition. And if they get to lay waste to a bunch of civilian wannabe or usedtobe acting in the role of thugs and brownshirts on the way, it’s just not going to be a problem…

mikey

The image that comes to mind is the end of Night of the Living Dead when they load up that nuclear artillery shell and let those zombie fucks have it…except with aluminum?

It is indeed true that under normal circumstances, as envisaged by the founding fathers, the rule of law, separation of powers, etc. are sacred principles, not to be toyed with lightly. But the current times, especially after last year’s elections are hardly normal. For our system of government to work correctly, all the branches of government should share a common purpose in advancing the welfare of our nation. After the fall election, President Bush and the Congressional Republicans extended their hand in bipartisan friendship. And what was the response? After some hypocritical posturing, the Democrat leadership spat in the President’s face. But more importantly they went hellbent on a spree to sabotage our entire system of government, with reckless abandon, ignoring the damage that they are inflicting. Most notable, of course, has been the unfathomable irresponsibility of defunding our troops in the middle of war. But this is only the latest outrage. The list could go on for many pages, but let me mention only a few. Removing the best UN ambassador we ever had. Endless “investigations” based on the flimsiest pretexts, with the intention of bringing executive departments to a grinding halt. Persecution of able and honorable administration officials out of sheer vindictiveness. Conspiring with foreign interests to drive our representatives out of international organizations. I could go on and on, but my heart would burst with outrage.
So if one of the branches of government willfully acts against our national interests, the normal constitutional processes can’t work as intended. So what is the President to do? Lie down and play dead and hope that they will eventually come to their senses? I would hope not! There have been other democracies which faced similar challenges in the past and were blessed with capable leaders who did what they needed to in order to straighten things out. India under Indira Gandhi and Chile under Augusto Pinochet come to mind. After weathering the storms, these countries have come back as bigger and better democracies than ever.

nabalzbbfr said,

May 3, 2007 at 2:03

Keep it concise. There isn’t much point in attempting to deal with everything that’s wrong in that one.

It’s nice of Pammie aka teh shrieking harpy to stop by.

So when’s the next vlog, nabalzbbfr?

Removing the best UN ambassador we ever had.

Who would that be? The only one I remember is John Bolton. And I’m always a little suspicious of anyone who says that everyone who doesn’t agree with him is a traitor.

But I do have to agree with the part where you compare George W. Bush and Pinochet. Both were put into power by corrupt Republicans in place of the guy who was elected, both were completely contemptuous of democracy.

Very perceptive.

Why do these people WANT to live in an authoritarian police state? Do they think they’re going to get a ministry or something? They get to torture the nuns? Why can’t they realize that THEY are going to miss their freedoms as much as I am?

mikey

nabalzbbfr is right. What Bush needs to do is bomb the Capitol the way Pinochet bombed La Moneda. He should also turn RFK Stadium into a center for mass torture and execution. These would be initial yet important steps necessary to straighten things out. Then he should set up a military junta with him as head and rule for 18 years. Because that’s how real democrats save democracy from itself.

nabalzbbfr,

That was the spot-on best wingnut exegesis I’ve ever read. You have definitely taken the title from Gary Ruppert. I have never seen so many right-wing cliches strung together and polished up in fine William F. Buckley style.

My hat is off to you, sir or madam.

nabalzbbfr said, “I could go on and on, but my heart would burst with outrage.”

As someone else replied earlier today on Salon to the VERY SAME POST: Please, do go on.

nabalzbbfr is so outraged at consitutional republicanism that he had to cross-post his comment. It’s just that important!

Really, authoritarians always seem to think they will be the ones in charge of the camps. The rulers just leap-frog over the idiots who put them in power and oppress them just like they do everyone else.

What the hell’s going on? Suddenly it’s the last act of Akira and all the Republicans in the world are Tetsuo, mutating beyond all recognition and exploding goo everywhere.

Wow, nabalzbbfr does indeed put Gary Ruppert to shame. Some highlights from around the internets.

On Waxman’s hearings on the Tillman story.

How petty and small-minded! Embellishment of heroic war stories in order to inspire people is an ancient literary tradition going back to Homer’s day, if not earlier. One is not supposed to take them literally. Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman represent photogenic archetypes of our brave fighting men and women. While the stories told about them may not be literally true, they portray a larger “big picture� truth, which is entirely valid. Reasonable people understand this.

On Mission Accomplished.

This is just sour grapes. The US military, under the leadership of President Bush, did win a stunningly quick and virtually bloodless victory in Iraq in spring of 2003. President Bush was entitled to his moment of glory and to honor the valor and skill of our brave fighting men and women, which he did most eloquently. To keep carping about this years later, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, is in very poor taste to say the least. More importantly it denigrates our troops and encourages our enemies. If the Democrats think these cheap theatrics are a winning political strategy, then they are plain nuts. Can you say boomerang?

On Bush’s little perceived recent successes.

While the conventional liberal wisdom has been that this past week was very bad for the Administration, as is usual with liberals, they are completely off the mark.

Here are some important things they have entirely missed.

1) There has been a dramatic improvement of the Iraq situation – the surge has succeeded beyond the wildest hopes of the Administration. See Kagan’s oped in today’s Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp…7030901839.html

In addition Iran’s meddling has been thwarted and they seem to be beginning to accede to US demands with respect to their nuclear program.

2) There are very promising new peace initiatives in the Middle East – watch for dramatic developments soon.

3) Robert Gates is proving to be a bold and decisive Defense Secretary and military morale has rebounded to its highest levels since 2001.

3) AG Gonzales has gotten a second wind. His purge of US Attorneys has rejuvenated the Justice Department. Contrary to what you read here and in the liberal press, the IG report on comparatively minor shortcomings in the FBI show that the internal controls of the Justice Department are effective.

4) President Bush’s trip to Latin America is a rousing diplomatic success. Chavez’s attempt to spoil this have backfired spectacularly.

5) Congressional Democrats are in total disarray. Developments in Iraq and the Middle East will make it much much worse. Watch for Steny Hoyer to stage a coup against Pelosi. (He has never forgiven her for trying to dump him from the leadership team and replace him with Murtha.) Also watch for Joe Lieberman to flip the Senate back to the Republicans.

By this time next year things will look very bleak for Democrats. President Bush will have a free hand in appointing his chosen successor to continue his enlightened policies, and have his choice overwhelmingly endorsed by the electorate. And he will go down in history as a great statesman and world leader.

And on a whole bunch of stuff.

nabalzbbfr’s 16 letters to the editor of Salon.

Today’s pattern appears to be typical: The same comment gets posted at various sites with entries on a certain theme. Sadly, nabalzbbr engages in little or no discussion with the other commenters.

After the fall election, President Bush and the Congressional Republicans extended their hand in bipartisan friendship.

Oh, dear! My tummy hurts from laughing!

My personal favorite is the “rousing diplomatic success” of Bush’s pathetic South American distraction.

If I might be permitted a BWAHAHAHAHA!

Actually, that selection makes me feel good. If netvocate employees are being told to ratchet down the rhetoric re: Iran then the world just got a whole lot safer.
Not that I’m getting my hopes up.

Why do these people WANT to live in an authoritarian police state? Do they think they’re going to get a ministry or something? They get to torture the nuns? Why can’t they realize that THEY are going to miss their freedoms as much as I am?

mikey

Mikey, I think the idea of a very strong, absolute ruler satisfies a need in their psyche.

If you have not already, you might want to check out Sara Robinson’s series on the psychology of Authoritarianism. It’s kinda long, but it really gets into exacty why these people want an Authoritarian Police State. On a psychological level. I highly recommend it to everyone and anyone.

Part A, “Cracks in the Wall” One, Two, Three, and you can get the links to part B, “Tunnels and Bridges”, by looking at the left side of the blog, it’s listed there, along with a lot of other stuff.

Nabalzbbfr said: “After the fall election, President Bush and the Congressional Republicans extended their hand in bipartisan friendship.”

This is actually sort of true. After the ’06 elections, the Bush-Cheney White House did for the first time extend their hand in friendship to the Congressional Republicans (whom they had been used to treating with the same contempt Louis XVI showed to the Estates- General of La France).

Shorter nabalzbbfr: The Statue of Liberty ist kaput!

I call it the Socratic method.
Ask me a question!