More Progress in Iraq
Democracy! Whiskey! Sexy:
Fatima Ali was a 24-year-old divorcee with no high school diploma and no job. Shawket al-Rubae was a 34-year-old Shiite sheik with a pregnant wife who, he said, could not have sex with him.
Ali wanted someone to take care of her. Rubae wanted a companion.
They met one afternoon in May at the house he shares with his wife, in the room where he accepts visitors seeking his religious counsel. He had a proposal. Would Ali be his temporary wife? He would pay her 5,000 Iraqi dinars upfront — about $4 — in addition to her monthly expenses. About twice a week over the next eight months, he would summon her to a house he would rent.
The negotiations took an hour and ended with an unwritten agreement, the couple recalled. Thus began their “mutaa,” or enjoyment marriage, a temporary union believed by Shiite Muslims to be sanctioned by Islamic law.
Let’s stop being polite and culturally sensitive about this. This is basically prostitution with (slightly) better job security. The fact that it’s endorsed by a patriarchal, backward religious law don’t change it from what it is.
The Shiite practice began 1,400 years ago, in what is now Iraq and other parts of the region, as a way to provide for war widows.
Which, in a perverse way, makes sense for the time. The concept of pensions hadn’t quite caught on yet back then.
Banned by President Saddam Hussein’s Sunni-led government, it has regained popularity since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq brought the majority Shiites to power, said clerics, women’s rights activists and mutaa spouses.
“During Saddam’s time, there was no religious freedom,” said Faris al-Shareef, a sheik who lives in the mainly Shiite city of Hilla.
“Yes, during Saddam’s time we were not free to use our religion as an excuse to git us some hoooooooooez!”
Gavin adds: Dude, it says he lives in the manly Shiite city of Hilla. Don’t hate on the game of tha manly killaz from Hilla. Oh, ‘mainly.’ Never mind; sorry.
Opponents of mutaa, most of them Sunni Arabs, say it is less about religious freedom and more about economic exploitation. Thousands of men are dying in the sectarian violence that has followed the invasion, leaving behind widows who must fend for themselves. Many young men are out of work and prefer temporary over permanent wives who require long-term financial commitments. In a mutaa arrangement, the woman is entitled to payment only for the duration of the marriage.
I’m glad our lovely invasion of Iraq had a role in bringing back this charming cultural practice, aren’t you?
“It’s a cover for prostitution,” said Um Akram, a women’s rights activist in Baghdad. “Some women, because they don’t want to be prostitutes, they think that this is legal because it’s got some kind of religious cover. But it is wrong, and they’re still prostitutes from the society’s point of view.” […]
“These steps are taking the whole country backwards and are definitely hurdles to the advancement of the country,” said Hamdia Ahmed, a former member of parliament and a women’s rights activist in Baghdad. “The only solution is to separate Islam from politics.”
I hear ya, sister. We have morons like that in our country who argue that there shouldn’t be a separation of church and state. The difference is, your country’s morons seem to have a lot more automatic weapons.
Elsewhere in the Arab world, several pro-American chumps journalists are gettin’ all fussy because our invasion has become a major victory for Iran and al Qaeda. Wheeeee:
“It’s a success story for al-Qaeda, a success story for autocratic Arab regimes that made democracy look ugly in their people’s eyes. They can say to their people: ‘Look at the democracy that the Americans want to bring to you. Democracy is trouble. You may as well forget about what the Americans promise you. They promise you death,’ ” said Salameh Nematt, a Jordanian analyst and the former Washington bureau chief for the Arabic-language daily newspaper al-Hayat.
Added Magdi Khalil, an Egyptian writer and proponent of the invasion, “Everything, everything is very gloomy.”
Two nearly simultaneous bombs struck a predominantly Shiite commercial area in central Baghdad, killing at least 78 people and wounding at least 156, said Deputy Health Minister Hakim al-Zamili.
The U.S. military also reported the deaths of two Marines in a particularly bloody weekend for American forces in Iraq.
Terrific.
I think it’s time to take stock of what we’ve learned from this sad debacle. I’ve learned (or, more accurately, had my views reinforced) that:
1.) Changes within cultures and nations cannot be forced by an outside power.
2.) People resent it- boy do they ever resent it- when you try to change their culture and government using military force.
3.) Nobody likes having their country invaded. Nobody likes being occupied by a foreign power.
4.) Any native citizens who collaborate with said foreign power will be inevitably seen as stooges of the foreign power and have no legitimacy (see: Maliki, Prime Minister).
5.) Imperialism is bad.
And that’s that. I hope we’ve learned something from all this, but I doubt it. The American memory lasts about as long as a Peyton Manning commercial, so I’m sure we’ll be back to handing out no-bid contracts for the reconstruction of Iran and Syria in no time.
1.) Changes within cultures and nations cannot be forced by an outside power.
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But Altrocket, that’s where you’re wrong – the invasion HAS made a change, just in the wrong direction. About 1400 years in the wrong direction. We keep this up and we will have truly “bombed them back to the stone age”. They only have power for 2 hour a day now, right?
I’m surprised the U.S. subcontractors haven’t figured out a way to get in on the pimpin’ rights.
Fucktards. God I hate these people.
Yep this is prostitution. Seems like the bunny Ranch needs to open a subsidairy in Iraq. Truly deplorable. You know I imagine my wife would object to this, it is a shame the man’s wife has no choice but to put up with it. And the 24 year old woman has no other job prosepect than this. I mean when the guys wife can have sex with him, can he keep her on the side? Yes this is why I am a fanatic for seapration of chuch and state. I mean really what if we took up the mormon tenant of poglygamy, would we not begin the road teh thingslike this. The worst part is that their religion will agree to it and call prsotitituion a part of religious freedom, and they say honor means somehting to them. Just plan backwards. Also can a woman enter into a marriage like this if say her husband cannto have sex with her or is this for men only?
I’m surprised the U.S. subcontractors haven’t figured out a way to get in on the pimpin’ rights.
I know. It’s not like them to be behind the curve.
Richard- John Stossel would argue that you’re just making things worse by not letting the free market for hookers work its magic…
They have something similar to “mutaa” in Thailand… called “mia noi” (minor wife). Thai guys usually pick them up later in life when their wives aren’t as interested in (and enjoying) sex as much as they used to be. It’s fairly common here.
Mia Noi girls don’t think of themselves as prostitutes either… just girls with sugar daddies.
Just different cultures, et cetera.
The Shiite practice began 1,400 years ago, in what is now Iraq and other parts of the region, as a way to provide for war widows.
Bullshit. The Shi’ite practice began 1,400 years ago . . . as a way to provide a little guilt-free nooky on the side for the men in charge.
When you consider that “real” prostitutes are engaging in adultery and therefore subject to 100 lashes, it really is a step up.
As for job security, my assumption would be that the man could thrice say “I divorce you” and that would be that: it’s marriage after all. Of course, I could check a reference if I was smart.
I guess my main question is what is the allowable age for the practice? Muhammad married a six-year-old and was banging her at nine, so is this a pedophile’s bonanza?
>>I’m surprised the U.S. subcontractors haven’t figured out a way to get in on the pimpin’ rights.
>I know. It’s not like them to be behind the curve.
Bitch betta have mah money!!!
I fear Lilith there is right…
Although a side effect was that some war widows were ‘provided for’ (and don’t you just know that if a particular widow was overweight or ugly, no one provided for her) ultimately it was the men who were taking advantage of the women’s precarious situation to force them into the virtually only option left to them.
No, the widow thing is probably right. Widows in that place and era were really and totally fucked, since they had absolutely no way to make a living. While it may seem obvious to us to simply give the needy money, the concept of a “welfare state” was still in its infancy. Recall also that true marriage was also much more of a financial than a romantic arrangement in those days too, and the concept becomes a lot less scandalous.
Polygamy and child marriages were similarly intended to deal with widows and orphans.
I’m not big on casting judgements on ancient societies. Ideas about rights and freedoms aren’t as self-evident or obvious as modern liberals sometimes pretend they are. It doesn’t seem quite fair to judge people for not having a good idea quite yet.
Not that this excuses current societies. Iraq does have access to strategies for dealing with its widows and orphans other than marrying them off, temporarily or not.
Yeah, and add to all of that the fact that the understaffed, poorly equipped, barely functioning hospitals – thanks, George! – can’t cope with the number of wounded.
Rape, murder, torture, no electricity, no plumbing, no clean drinking water, no safety, endless suffering and prostitution… Fucking Brilliant.
Meanwhile, on home turf, Georgie’s wrapping up his state of the union address in which he plans to suggest ““we should treat health insurance more like home ownership.â€? [Bush] went on to say that “the current tax code encourages home ownership by allowing you to deduct the interest on your mortgage from your taxes. We can reform the tax code, so that it provides a similar incentive for you to buy health insurance.”
so that more Americans can be without health insurance. Kind of like his earlier plan to have each and every American look after their own old age security.
Meanwhile the fucker is borrowing and spending billions on a war that should never have happened.
I’m not big on casting judgements on ancient societies. Ideas about rights and freedoms aren’t as self-evident or obvious as modern liberals sometimes pretend they are.
Oh the IRONY! Iraq was a SECULAR state under Hussein. Jesus Christ…get with the program Matt. Women had rights and freedoms they do not enjoy now. I work with a woman who grew up in Iraq. Both she and her mother are highly educated. Her mother worked as a nuclear physicist in Iraq. Sure, shit went on, but it was nowhere near as oppressive as it is now.
I know such marriages happen in Iran now, but did they before the revolution?
Lesley, I don’t think he was talking about Iraq under Saddam when he mentioned ancient societies…
Oh the IRONY! Iraq was a SECULAR state under Hussein. Jesus Christ…get with the program Matt.
I believe that Matt was offering a comment on the origin on the practice and not the current back-slide.
“of the practice”
I have found again and again when I try to overlay my cultural expectations on another culture I can find things that look like what I would describe as prostitution, torture, usury, slavery – things that when described in the context of my culture are easy to dismiss as barbaric or criminal. But at this point in my life I’m a lot less ready to accept that level of simplicity. In a sense, it sounds like when a jowly white dude in a suit says that the veil oppresses women, while many women in free societies say they WANT to wear the veil. Could it be that cultural phenomena can only be understood in the context of the culture where they originated? What a concept!
Rape, murder, torture, no electricity, no plumbing, no clean drinking water, no safety, endless suffering and prostitution… Fucking Brilliant.
See, this is all the rewards of warfare when the shooting (temporarily) stops. All the horror that doesn’t make the nightly news. Refugees, lack of services, diseases, economic crises at the individual as well as the municipal level resulting in prostitution, black market activity, crime. No health care. Waterborne disease always a concern. There’s nothing new here – wars have left these same nightmares in their wake forever. Asia and Europe learned these lessons sixty years ago, Africa and the mid east continue to (not) learn, but America. Ahh, safe, stable, healty America. We don’t get the true costs of war because all it really is to us is numbers in a budget deficit.
When you look around the world at who’s starting wars and who’s trying to deter them, there’s a bit of a correlation here…
mikey
teh, you so funny!
I agree with Jil in Pattaya and I guess some others. The custom is not really anything to be upset about, its a more, a way for various resources to be better distributed. Note that it encourages some sort of semi-long-term relationship and discourages brief encounters…
There are lots to be upset about, but this ain’t it.
There are lots to be upset about, but this ain’t it.
Depends on the age of consent, I’d say.
“The custom is not really anything to be upset about, its a more, a way for various resources to be better distributed. Note that it encourages some sort of semi-long-term relationship and discourages brief encounters…”
And what exactly does it do to the pregnant woman?
“The concept of pensions hadn’t quite caught on yet back then.”
Actually, the Byzantine Empire had a pension system it had inherited from Rome that had been in existance for about 1000 years at the time. Welfare state too. Ignorance is not an excuse here.
R. Buddha is correct regarding my intentions. I don’t want to cast judgment on people who have been dead for a millennium. They didn’t know better, and besides, what’s the point?
However, modern Iragis do know better alternatives. I don’t think marriage should be treated like employment, in that a woman is dependent on finding one to support herself. Maybe if Iraqis still marry primarily for financial, rather than romantic, reasons, I could see my way to accepting the practice, but from what I can tell, that hasn’t really been the case.
Iraq does have access to strategies for dealing with its widows and orphans other than marrying them off, temporarily or not.
I’m curious to know what Iraq can do with widows and orphans besides sell them or kill them in the current conditions.
I’m curious to know what Iraq can do with widows and orphans besides sell them or kill them in the current conditions.
Perhaps Hezbollah can step in to fill the charitable breach.
Hmmm, as long as the women are exclusive to their “temporary” husband, the spread of STD’s would actually be greatly lowered, which isn’t quite the same as with prostitution, where STD’s have a great rate of spread because of the multiple partners.
It’s like prostitution-lite, or something.
And since I’m morally ambiguous about everything, I just can’t be too concerned about this either.
Dear Dinesh D’Souza:…
So, how ’bout that mutaa, eh? Enjoyment marriages are back in Iraq. BECAUSE OF THE PURPLE FINGERS! And your cultural affinity with …somebody, somewhere….
Jil, small world. My dad lived in Pattaya until about 3 months ago.
Ancient or no, I still see a man taking advantage of a woman’s inferior position and disadvantage to obtain what he wants, with the woman in an untenable position. I mean, it’s not as if she’s negotiating from a position of having any other choice, right? She’s not able to get officially re-married, she isn’t going to be supporting herself, it’s this or the streets, right?
Maybe in the ancient society, it was more a matter of course, but again as others mention, for a modern society to revert to this behavior is regressive.
As some have pointed out, other older societies managed the trick. Extended families cope quite nicely.
It may be part of their culture, but so is female circumcision. Doesn’t mean we have to turn a blind eye.
Another thing I learned:
6) Down-payment on a side-ho is only four freakin dollars! God bless the free market, an’ Milton Friedman, an’ John Stossel, and Commander Codpiece, an’ carbombs, an’…
Oh, and I know an Iraqi woman here in the States who does very well for herself as a prostitute. What do I win?
The only prostitutes I’ve ever encountered in my own society who enjoy their work are high priced call girls – they pick and choose their clients. Can you imagine the disgust these displaced women feel having to do this to scrape out a living/protection? Gawd.
If your wife won’t have you, you probably need more than a shower and a shave to make you appealing.
Can you imagine the disgust these displaced women feel having to do this to scrape out a living/protection? Gawd.
Yes, there’s a pretty large gap between survival prostitution and those who can pick and choose.
I wanna be a producer
Show the world just what I’ve got
I’m gonna put on shows
That’ll shock & awe ’em
Read my name in Kristol’s column!
They have prostitution in Iraq? Then we better keep bombing. Seriously, Iraq is a diversion. As the army attacks Iraq, the US gov’t erodes rights at home by suspending habeas corpus, stealing private lands, banning books like “America Deceived” from Amazon, rigging elections, conducting warrantless wiretaps and starting 2 illegal wars based on lies. Soon, another US false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier) and the US will invade Iran, (on behalf of Israel).
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov’t demands and censors the title):
America Deceived (book)
Bla bla bla. Shia-whores, Schmia-whores. Who cares?!
Tell us Retardo’s new name, Dammit!!!
RE: knaverupe:
I’m becoming partial to “Feces Ragout,” myself.
Being a good contrarian Nietzschean who doesn’t believe in anything such as absolute morality I have to agree with those who caution against bringing the weight of our own cultural mores into making full and final judgments about this.
For one, this isn’t really enough info. Do these short term wives have discretion in their choice? It could be that Iraqi women have used this tradition to prevent ending up in a permanent arranged marriage. Maybe, occasionally, this has even allowed two people who were actually in love to actually freely express it in an otherwise repressive society. It doesn’t sound like this women are hit over the head with clubs and dragged back to their caves. They have some say in it.
And, yes, I realize that some say doesn’t necessarily mean equal say.I’m not saying yay for this practice, or that I’m in favor of it. I’m saying I know nothing about it, and most everyone here knows shite all as well. Some of the responses here reek of cultural superiority to me. It may be a full fledged form of abuse and exploitation of women, or it may be something less clear cut. Knee jerk responses do no one credit.
This film is worth watching. For the main two women filmed, the temporary marriages seem as drab and unpleasant as prostitution arrangements elsewhere, but at least they can’t be arrested for it.
Oh please, this is hardly news. It happens all the time in Muslimity. Also, Muslims men can have four legal wives. Where have you been???
I mean there are Muslim playboys with “stables” of temporary wives from all over the world. They pay big bucks for white girls.
Of course it is prostitution from your point of view, cuz like women hate sex, right??? For unmarried women and men in Saudi, this is what they do if they want to have sex.
Sexist pigs, all of you!
Hemlock Echo: Yes… there are lots of Westerners living here in Pattaya, Thailand.
It’s a bunch of Christian men living in a Buddhist town and emulating the Muslim practice of “mutaa”. Heheh.
That post is not by Gavin M! It was posted by a piece of rancid banana cream pie. I demand that you take it down now! Stop, in the name of all Gavins everywhere. This country has come to a pretty pass when insane pieces of pie can post using the name of a respected political commentator!
Righteous Bubba and Ginger Yellow:
Look, I am not going to convince you, nor Lesley. I am simply saying that the cultural practice is not something that needs to be criticized, when we have too many other things to focus on.
In a functioning society, both of your concerns could be dealt with. But there is no functioning society.
Its a practice that is widely adopted in many cultures, and, in my mind, makes sense in an uncertain and dangerous world. Plus we have no cause to complain, with our divorce rates. That mote and all.
So let’s agree to disagree. She may be a complete victim; she may be a willing and eager participant. She may be willing, but only for the economic benefit, or she may enjoy other aspects of the relationship, and so on. We don’t really know. If they all survive, maybe the relationship will continue.
I do believe I have read of places where this contractual arrangement was used simply to facilitate straight-out, per-time prostitution. In that situation I would argue that legalizing it and providing properly for the women, like in say Germany, would make more sense.
But in Iraq now, this is the least of anyone’s concerns.
Righteous Bubba and Ginger Yellow:
Look, I am not going to convince you
I didn’t think I’d tipped my hand in any particular direction, really, so my apologies if I seem like I’m screaming for vengeance in any particular direction. Whatever a woman wants to do with her body is okay by me.
This particular manifestation of prostitution makes me queasy given the atmosphere of a drastic curtailment in the rights of women and the poverty as well, but there are a lot of things to be queasy about in Iraq. That film I mentioned above was awfully depressing. But people gotta eat. Food is the first thing, morals follow.
How many fucking times can one write “particular”? At least with Tourette’s your language is colourful.
Bubba:
No worries. I didn’t have time to review the conversation carefully to ascertain particular positions. 😉
“Food is the first thing, morals follow.”
Got that right, and not just food. Its got to be lonely out there, with the weapons, carnage, perhaps no electricity most nights…
Yes. Of course. It’s really all about fucking “America Deceived (book).” Yep.