What really frightens me is that JPod’s from NYC, whereas I am just a redneck from Alabama who moved here a decade ago; and yet, I’m not the one with the embarrassing yellow stain on my britches. (I’m quite aware of the real threats…I just didn’t think we’d be warned with Islamofascist stink-bombs ahead of time.)

If the gas smell had permeated Kansas City or Dallas or Seattle, people would surely have been speculating about an al Qaeda connection.

Or maybe not. You see, I live in Kansas, not far from a little town called Hutchinson which happens to sit atop a massive natural gas storage chamber. In 2001, the gas leaked out, causing random explosions and fires. It wasn’t terrorism, just a freak accident. And while the people there were certainly freaking out, I think that had more to do with the “random explosions and fires” part than the “may be terrorism” part.

Of course, this was before The Day That Changed Everything, back when small-town Kansas was dominated by elitist liberal types.

Here in Milwaukee, a little stench doesn’t phase anyone.

If it’s not the rendering plant, it’s a gentle waft from the sewage treatment plant at Jones island, or the yeast from the fruit cannery, or maybe the one remaining brewery, or just the alewives washing up on the beach.

What a bunch of wusses, who have wound themselves to such a fever pitch of panic that a smell sends them running.

They are an insult to America.

Ah, the New York Post. I used to buy that rag, because it was only 25 cents and it had the baseball box scores laid out in a logical fashion (as opposed to the Daily News).

Finally, I made myself stop buying it (long before I moved out of NYC). I just couldn’t stomach giving even a quarter to the Scumbag of Scumbags, Rupert Murdoch.

I wonder which cobag has done more damage to the United States: Murdoch or Mellon-Scaife.

I wouldn’t use the New York Post to line birdcages. I fear even letting a parrot shit on the Post would inflict its xenophobic rightist cultural backwash on the poor bird.

And the last thing you need is another right-wing parrot screaming about the terrorists.

Hi Retardo, I didn’t even check to see who wrote the post (not the nypost) before involuntary mechanisms of revulsion kicked in.

Happy New Year!

This is the kind of thing that makes me crazy, I mean absolutely insane. I live in NoVa, I SAW the plane hit the Pentagon and I was very antsy about descending planes for years afterwards and at the same time I completely realize that of all the personal connections with 9/11 I had the least traumatic kind and I know a guy who was in the section of the Pentagon that got hit and his best friend was killed instantly and he led a bunch of people to safety through the smoke, and living in a city that along with NY has had its own individualized yellow alert, I gotta say: yea, you dumbass do you notice that people in DC and NY, of all the people in the frigging country, are the least hysterical about the possibility of terrorist attacks? Do you notice that we are STILL blue states (areas)? Meanwhile, you don’t understand why we aren’t shitting our pants and we don’t understand why you actually have any fear that Podunk Indiana is in some kind of imminent danger of attack by terrorists? How do I even explain this? I despair of even explaining this. It’s LIFE is what it is. Life, which is dangerous and risky and terrorism is less risky than driving a car and less likely than pollution from New Jersey. Every once ina while it rains heavily here and it smells like fish and sewage and I don’t assume it is terrorism, I assume the sewage treatment plants and the river have been flooded, and it’s just LIFE. It’s fucking life. Stop thinking we can prevent every dangerous thing, we can’t. We can’t and we shouldn’t and life here is safer than anywhere and we shouldn’t, MUSTN’T!, complain that it’s still not 100% safe. It’s not and it never will be and it shouldn’t be because even though you think that we are nothing because of death, the fact is we are nothing without death. Sorry to go on so long but this kind of thing, along with the 9-11 deniers, just makes me lose my mind.

Aquagirl rules.

That was poetry.

Sorry to go on so long but this kind of thing, along with the 9-11 deniers, just makes me lose my mind.

9-11 conspiracy beilevers drive me batty too. I stopped reading and posting at Eschaton because there were a few too many 9-11 conspiracy nuts over there. It’s the kind of thing that makes liberals look really bad, and I fucking hate it. Get talking to one of these people and you will see some truly advanced cases of cognitive dissonance.

One of my best friends was giving me some of that conspiracy shit a few months ago, and I just went ballistic. I would not let it die until he admitted there was no conspiracy, no controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. He later thanked me for the experience and apologized for prattling on about remote-controlled drone planes and bombs inside the World Trade Center.

Maybe the reason we New Yorkers don’t shit our pants every time a car backfires is because we live in a world where we come into contact with unsuspected people, places and events all the time. We roll with it on a daily basis and no matter what — the 2001 attacks, the 2003 blackout, etc. — we remain unbothered.

But for someone whose life is predicated on living in a hermetically-sealed world — from the gated-community suburb to the individual car on the highway to the office with the security guard — and seeing, hearing, and interacting only with people who fit their own mold, I bet “different” and “unusual” is pretty scary.

Maybe we should change the nomenclature from “red state” to “yellow state.” Works for the constant cringing attitude they have, the cowardice with which they believe America will be overrun by gay Mexican Islamofascists, and the ever-spreading stain in their pants.

Sorry, J-Pod, but we’re not going to join you in your case of pearl-clutching, tear-jerking vapors.

Sort of off topic, but shouldn’t right wingers be the last people to postulate that some domestic incident(arabs in cars, that plane crash, etc.) are terrorist incidents? Wouldn’t terrorist acts still taking place in the U.S. poke holes in the already-thouroughly-hole-poked “fighting them here so we don’t fight them there” strategy, much less a general indictment of Bush’s failed war on terror?

Danny Devito must hate that guy.

I bet many of the red-state wingnuts have never even visited NYC because it’s NYC, after all. They might get MUGGED!!&^%%^.

How many times is my RSS reader going to make this post show up as new because Retardo keeps going back and editing it?

I was on a tour recently, and our driver was the typical tour bus driver, i.e. a redneck from Iowa (usually they’re from Tennessee, but this guy was from Iowa.) Anywhoo, the tour brought us to the Northeast for a few weeks, and this guy was miserable the whole time. He repeatedly made comments that they should “Nuke this whole goddamned part of the country.” A real patriot, this guy. I’m sure his ginormous pickup truck/small-penismobile back in Iowa is festooned with all sort of Patriotic American stickers and magnets and whatnot, and yet here is this great patriot talking about nuking New York City.

As an added bonus, he listened to wingnut radio for the entire two months and when he’d have some chill time in between drives he’d always make sure to tune the bus satellite to Comedy Central for his favorite show, that’s right, wait for it— Blue Collar Comedy. God, do I hate people like that. Southern-Baptist racist Bush-loving wingnut motherfuckers are the lowest form of slime on the planet.

Truly, Aquagirl is eloquent and well-targeted. As a member of the Reality-Based Community, she does not make the mistake of believing that the world is (should be) a bell jar wherein she may be swaddled in many soft, cottony layers of denial, superstition, and self-reinforcing prejudices that will enable her to live forever (while never actually “living” at all). For this is one of the core differences between Life and Disneyland: Life is the one that smells, and not always sweetly!

Oh, and Happy New Calendar, Retardo!

Jeff, Drew, Billy — I hear ya. I’m in the same geographical situation. Not all of us — probably not even half of us, anymore — are the pants-pissers that Pod Jr. is. But still he, the Manhattanite and scion of a Brooklyn family, obviously identitfies with the panicky part of the electorate that is convinced al-qaeda is salivating at the prospect of bombing the post office of bumfuck, utah.

More braodly, he’s disappointed that this is yet more evidence that the climate of fear neoconservatives especially like to inculcate is being shrugged off if not totally shitcanned by a weary populace that — since is it composed of human beings doing the daily things humans do — can’t be bothered with being paranoid, neurotic fuckwits.

***
Hey, Thunder, and thanks. Yeah, I’m back now.

***
Look, I know my last post was long, but geez. Not one comment at least to tell me that it sucks? Fine, I’ll never use The Exorcist as an extended metaphor again! Anyway, I was making up for lost time; all these awful people croaked during my hiatus and I was unable to give proper encomiums at the time.

On the bright side, though, I saw where several sweethearts nominated us for Koufaxes; someone even remembered ‘Wingnuts in Party Hats’ for most humorous post! Muah muah for that. Your check’s in the mail!

I haven’t edited it, digamma.

Memo to the heartland war-blahggers: the only terrorist attack directly executed on your soil came from right-wing Christian white male Timothy McVeigh. Secular, pluralistic, democratic ways of life are the target, and it is the flair of resuming life in the face of risk and danger that poses the greatest threat to democracy’s enemies (home and abroad). Many of you vote for an abusive surrogate father who has tortured prisoners, dithered about a devastating hurricane, shredded Constitutional checks and balances, and refused any deliberation about the facts on the ground of his inane war, preferring to have the Iraq Study Group Report delivered in rolls of soft, perforated squares; some of you find comfort in doing so by praying to another abusive, surrogate father whom you have convinced yourself cares more about preventing a men from claiming spousal rights to visit his longtime partner in a hospital than the fact that his partner was actually found floating down the streets of the Ninth Ward. The closest this shining prince has come to thwarting terrorism came when his officials were let in on the work of British police zeroing on a genuine ring of plotters in London. But, of course, they ramrodded their way into the proceedings and helped to botch what would have been a much more effective sting against the plot.

Shop all you want– you’re losing one of the real fights against terror.

Hey, AL. Same to ya!

billy pilgrim: Also in Milwaukee here. And I used to live right across the street from a leather tanning company. So yeah, funny smells? Big deal. Enjoy some Dead Alewives!

But for someone whose life is predicated on living in a hermetically-sealed world — from the gated-community suburb to the individual car on the highway to the office with the security guard — and seeing, hearing, and interacting only with people who fit their own mold, I bet “different� and “unusual� is pretty scary.

What Otto Man said.

So much of the right-wing mindset is nothing more that a self-reinforcing, ass-rimming-caterpillar-daisy-chain of intentional self-isolation and fear of the unknown.

Hell, we get alarmed when we DON’T smell anything foul around here.

Seattle would have blamed the aroma on Tacoma….

we usually blame the funny colored water on Chicago…

how ya doin John. East side north of Downtown or south of downtown?

Be our guest, Poddy, light a match.
…or a courtesy flush, at the very least.

dammit alpine! you took mine!

I’ve missed you, Retardo!

Hell, we get alarmed when we DON’T smell anything foul around here.

I asked my super what he thought the smell was and he just shrugged, “Jersey, probably.”

his farts should be considered “dirty bombs”.

billy: East side north, right by the river. The place by the leather plant was Riverwest, and also right by the river.

I haven’t edited it, digamma.

Then Bloglines just sucks. My bad.

Hey, teh! I missed you, too!

Before: “These Colors Don’t Run”

Now: “If You Aren’t Scared, You Aren’t Patriotic”

I’m sure the troops take comfort in knowing the JPods back home are standing tall.

Its amazing how all three buildings, undergoing completely different stresses all fell in the exact same way.

Aquagirl said,
January 10, 2007 at 4:44

When I hear a great song it seems it’s just been waiting to be written.

Great post.

“Seattle would have blamed the aroma on Tacoma….”

Yes. Or Everett. As a matter of fact, I think both Everett and Tacoma should be fined for producing smells which could send the entire region into panic and riot. How the hell is someone supposed to react to a pulp mill these days, for Christ’s sake?

Its amazing how all three buildings, undergoing completely different stresses all fell in the exact same way.

You seriously find that amazing? No gravity where you come from?

It is amazing that all three towers collapsed completely within their footprint after two of them were struck from completely different sides, at different heights, and angles while the third wasn’t hit by anything but a fire.

There is something VERY odd about that.

I have a degree in physics (not using it, computers pay better) and I do understand gravity. I also understand the laws of conservation of momentum and Thermodynamics. I am not making any ‘conspiracy’ claims. I am saying that all three building underwent radically different stresses yet they each reacted the same way.

That is ODD!

I am saying that all three building underwent radically different stresses yet they each reacted the same way.

I can’t speak for the third building, but the two Twin Towers were did NOT undergo radically different stresses. They were both hit by an airplane somewhere above the 90th floor. They were both hit by a huge, heavy flying object loaded with gasoline. It should not be surprising that they both collapsed in the same way.

The stress of the airplanes hitting the buildings is not what caused the towers to fall. What caused the towers to fall was the heat generated, which softened the steel support beams. When the steel softened, the upper floors began to collapse, creating the “pancake” effect.

boy, that last comment, post, whatever was TEH SUCK111!!

Whatever, Plod. Keep phoning it in.

That was definitely the best part of the ‘Boy Who Cried Wolf’ story… the middle section, where the boy wonders how the townspeople can be so apathetic about the Wolfascist menace. He just doesn’t understand how they can pay so little attention to sightings of wolf spoor, or possible threads of wolf fur, or sheep that might well be concealing a wolf.
Unfortunately that part has been edited out of most modern versions.

#

Vic said,

January 10, 2007 at 8:47

Before: “These Colors Don’t Run�

Now: “If You Aren’t Scared, You Aren’t Patriotic�

I’m sure the troops take comfort in knowing the JPods back home are standing tall.

—

Easy to be brave with someone else’s life. But of course, if it might possibly have a less-than-one-percent chance of happening to YOU – you’d better be piss-your-pants scared! I mean… it COULD happen. Maybe. Possibly.

What great patriots the right are… not only telling us that we have to be brave against al-Qaeda (as long as its not us doing the work!) – while pissing in their jeans over here.

I suspect a good portion of the right left sanity a long long time ago. How they keep going I don’t know…

I really don’t think you understand how much you are oversimplifying the physics of what happened. They didn’t under go the same forces, they underwent similar events.
I think it is a problem in the generalized notion of “force” and the very specific definition of force in physics. All of the various ‘events’ that happened to all three towers were applied differently to different parts of the buildings at different directions and strengths yet the summation of all those forces (being applied differently to each tower) resulted in each building reacting the exact same way. Pretty amazing.

Ah yes, the “aroma of Tacoma” Remember it well.
One of the reasons I retired to the Philippines.

They didn’t under go the same forces, they underwent similar events.

Yes they did. They also did not fall the same way, but underwent similar events.

The south tower fell slightly to the left, while the north tower fell directly on top of itself.

The south tower fell slightly to the left

Aha! “Back and to the left.” I smell CONSPIRACY!

and tower 7?

JK47 said, I live in NoVa, I SAW the plane hit the Pentagon

Not a big fan of memorizing geographical distances, nor am I aware of how close Northern Virginia is to D.C., but wouldn’t you have had to be living in D.C., almost across the street from the Pentagon, in order to actually see the plane hit the Pentagon? Just a normal question.

A couple of non-conspiratorial facts include that steel doesn’t even come close to getting “soft” or melting at the max temperature of burning jet fuel of any amount, or even at the max temp of anything it may have ignited in this case which burns at a higher temperature than itself (unless it’s some kind of upgraded accelerant or something, not the case here because as far as we know there wasn’t anything like that stored in quantity anywhere in the Twins.)

Another fact is that gravity has laws. Items fall at a pre-determined speed. The Twins fell at a rate faster than gravity will allow unassisted.

There is no real 9/11/2001 conspiracy theory except an effort to discover the details of that real conspiracy of which the perpetrators of this horrendous mass murder are guilty. Until they are found and proven guilty, almost any theory is worth exploring for its validity or partial validity. It’s just too big to allow.

The Pentagon is not in the District.

When the trilateral commission gases us, it’s gonna be with odorless, colorless, undetectable gas. If it smells like a fart, it came from New Jersey.

i’m an idjit. so, people live within eyesite of the big p? i’m in san diego, never visited dc.

Another fact is that gravity has laws. Items fall at a pre-determined speed. The Twins fell at a rate faster than gravity will allow unassisted.

Oh, that. It was THE DEVIL squishing them with his fist.

wouldn’t be caught dead in Virginia, either

i remember when the devil pics came out. funny stuff.

Some people are more willing to believe that “HE” pictured himself in the clouds than that “WE” can collectively imagine that those 3 steel buildings melting in front of our eyes were brought down using merely modern demolition, which every single one of us has witnessed, at least on TV. Really, normal people, there is no other way that those buildings could have been brought down in just that way, other than with intense pre-positioning of explosives on every floor of all three buildings. Have none of you actually seen any of the many fact-based investigations and experts and evidence? None of it?

Just because they can imagine the “Why?” for “The Great Horned One” but they cannot imagine the “Why?” for anybody connected with the government of George W. (“The Wuss”), Bush the Disgrace III, they go with the ridiculous instead of the obvious?

Strange people, us Americans.

Odd, indeed.

Northern Virginia is very nice, especially Alexandria: the Gaslamp district is a bit like Old Town Alexandria. The Pentagon is in Arlington, a very high density residential and commercial area, plus the building is visible from at least one very busy highway. I was not thinking you an idiot, btw, but it did seem you were implying someone was lying without bothering to check the facts first.

I don’t mind calling myself an idjit when I’m ignorant, because I feel like one. Not lying, just as emotionally bothered as she(?) described she was at the time, which would be understandable, and we all know how emotions can color one’s interpretation of events of such magnitude. I find it SOOOOOOOOOO amazing that out of so many hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people living in the area, and SOOOO many installed security cameras in such an area, or any other modern-day American city but especially there, we have not one image, not one (the poor images released to the public tell us almost nothing) picture, not one video of a VERY low-flying massive passenger jet crossing so many miles of densely populated topography. Not one damn picture. Now that’s a lie I’m willing to say shouldn’t stand, and not one I’m willing to lay on any regular person.

Allan, go argue with this stuff. Really, it’s embarrassing to see this crap over and over again.

Whoops, bad link. Try this one.

Psst, pix of a plane smashing into the pentagon here!

oh yeah, it was AquaGirl, not JK47, who “saw” a full-sized jet passenger airliner fly into the most heavily fortified spot of land on Earth (at least in theory), unchallenged, unimpeded, unstoppable, unimagined. All of those “un-‘s” are lies. We are competent, we are able to protect the seat of our government and its Defense departments. There are anti-aircraft batteries all around the area, ALL around the area, which — could have — should have — would have — stopped anything flying toward it so slowly and directly and over such a looooonnnggg period of time as this heavy airbus did, if protecting The Pentagon were an existant goal.

Washington National Airport is very near there, why would a low-flying plane near an airport cause a commuter, at this point probably already pretty damn late for work, to pull over and grab a camera? Or a shopper? Or someone sipping coffee on their balcony? And it’s only densely populated right there, where the plane flew for a few minutes. It goes to suburbs and farmland pretty quickly to the west, and the plane wouldn’t have been flying low “for so many miles” there anyway, not until the last few moments. Seriously, the burden of proof is pretty damn high, and “I think it’s amazing that the images from the security cameras is so crappy” ain’t gonna cut it. There really is quite a lot of evidence, with which you may of course take issue but the burden of proof is still higher than your doubts and feelings.

saw those pics before, thanks. can you really see an airplane anywhere in the first pic? cuz I’ve never been able to.

thanks for the links page, been there. i’d reciprocate, but apparently reality-based thinking doesn’t fly far (pun intended) around this “embarassing” topic. I’m just a hit-and-run commenter anyway, this does not occupy my time. The current-day atrocities committed by “The Wuss” and his cabal are more than I can keep up with by themselves, without spending my time on something so many experts are still working on. As far as I’m concerned, “belief” in what happened or didn’t happen five years ago on 9/11/2001 has no seat at the table. Only the facts, as based in scientific and forensic evidence. Some of the stuff on both sides of the private investigations going on (the gov’t is done with it already) is pure self-aggrandizing shit, no doubt.

Meanwhile, back to the freeway, which is already in progress. (Stolen from Firesign Theater)

While it’s perfectly logical to assume the source of the stench was Pantload, my theory is that Atlas Pammy was vlogging and left her windows open. Thus the gaseous emission.

Honestly, the fact that there’s still an argument over this saddens me.

Another fact is that gravity has laws. Items fall at a pre-determined speed. The Twins fell at a rate faster than gravity will allow unassisted.

And how fast is that? Do you know how fast they fell?

and tower 7?

I honestly have no idea why it went down as well. Or indeed, why WTC 3, 4, 6 and a few other buildings were nearly destroyed too. I’d hazard a guess that maybe it’s because the two towers did not in fact fall in a controlled manner and brought several of the surrounding buldings with them.

We are competent, we are able to protect the seat of our government and its Defense departments.

No we’re not. The government are idiots.

steel doesn’t even come close to getting “soft� or melting at the max temperature of burning jet fuel of any amount, or even at the max temp of anything it may have ignited in this case which burns at a higher temperature than itself

Steel only needs to be heated up to 650 C to be weakened by 50%. While that isn’t enough for the beams themselves to buckle, it’s plenty for the small angles that keep them in place to give way.

saw those pics before, thanks. can you really see an airplane anywhere in the first pic? cuz I’ve never been able to.

No?

Only the facts, as based in scientific and forensic evidence.

Like…..four planes going missing and arguing that a building that developed a large flaming hole in it that day wasn’t hit by a plane.

“Seattle would have blamed the aroma on Tacoma….”

Since the “Tacoma Aroma” is pretty much gone…how about we blame that cement plant in White Center?

“They were both hit by a huge, heavy flying object loaded with gasoline.” Hate to bitch, but jets don’t use gasoline…try jet fuel (kerosene).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

Allen, when you look at those pictures of the Pentagon, don’t forget to take into account the size of the building? Those pictures are very bad for scale. There are some shots with firetrucks parked. Look at them and compare how tiny they look parked next to the building. That hole is much larger than it appears in the straight on photographs.

Just to clarify, I am not trying to advance some “robot controled airplanes” theory here. The ‘official’ explanations for why the 3 towers collapsed leaves out a lot of information. Until 9/11, no steel frame tower had ever collapsed from burning. It was not thought possible because of Steel’s high heat resistance. With thousands of high rise towers in this country, its something we need to understand.

I didn’t even smell the stink. I didn’t smell the maple syrup that time, either.

Either I’ll be impervious to the poison gas when they hit us, or I’ll be the last to notice. Dying last can be so embarassing.

Allan:

Another fact is that gravity has laws. Items fall at a pre-determined speed. The Twins fell at a rate faster than gravity will allow unassisted.

No, items fall with an acceleration inversely proportional to the square of their distance to a body, and directly proportional to its mass. Now, you can ignore most of that for this discussion, since the acceleration is pretty steady anywhere near the Earth’s surface. The main point is that it’s an acceleration, not a speed, and there is no maximum speed inherent in the law of gravity. There is a terminal velocity that results from friction with air. For building materials and such, that’d be pretty high, especially if the surrounding air were being drawn down with them.

…anti-aircraft batteries… could have… stopped anything flying toward it so slowly and directly and over such a looooonnnggg period of time as this heavy airbus did, if protecting The Pentagon were an existant goal.

It was (allegedly, if you insist) a Boeing 757, not an Airbus. None of the aircraft involved that day were Airbuses. They were all Boeings, two 757s, two 767s.

As far as I’m concerned, your credibility on this, especially in the matters of physics, and particularly in such a non-intuitive event as this (i.e., we don’t see this kind of thing happen every day, and our brains have never been wired to understand physics in such conditions, somewhat like e.g. relativity), is fading fast.

Oh, sorry – I hadn’t realized this had become a 9/11 conspiracy thread.

Myself, I blame the Cubans.

Thank you John Owens and Karl Rove. Never thought I’d say that.

i was intending to cite it’s use as an “air bus”, a slow, large plane, rather than anything quick, highly maneuverable. Didn’t mean to say it’s model was an “AirBus” or whatever as that is a specific model as you say

Hey Bubba thanks for that link.

speed of acceleration is still speed to a layman, methinks, and though my grasp of physics doesn’t approach yours, you know what I meant, i think.

the overall duration of time each of the towers took to fall was faster than (rather than slower than, in order to account for the time it took to gather up kinetically and transform the lower, untouched, undamaged floors’ — or their supportive structures’ — stored, mostly inert energy into free-falling weight) the speed they “should” have taken without extra assistance beyond what is accepted as the entire cause of all of the collapses: the plane strikes and subsequent burning off of the jet fuel.

I’m nobody and have no credibility to lose.

There is one puzzling item re 9/11. After Andy Card told Bush that we had been attacked, he sat there for what, 7 minutes?, staring into space.
If we were indeed under a real attack, would’t the Secret Service have hustlled him out the room immediately? Very odd that.

Sorry about the typos folks. Seems that my keyboard is rather sticky.
Long story…..

owlbear1: Until 9/11, no steel frame tower had ever collapsed from burning. It was not thought possible because of Steel’s high heat resistance. With thousands of high rise towers in this country, its something we need to understand.

Steel has shit for heat resistance, as M. Sphinx has pointed out upthread. That’s why you see protective coatings applied during construction (they look like spray-on concrete cottage cheese). The theory for the WTC collapse is that the impact of the jet (one-half-em-vee-squared, baby) created enough force to knock off the coating from the steel beams, exposing them to burning kerosene and weakening them. Once the first floor fell through, it was all over.

NOVA had a story on this last year, and from where I sit — with my smarty-pants engineering degree — it was pretty compelling. Not nearly as interesting as remote control drones, Jew-free office zones, and carefully placed demolition charges, but interesting in a “oh, that’s how the physical world works” kind of way.

Morans.

allan: I’m nobody and have no credibility to lose.

Sadly, No. Try: I’m ignorant and have no credibility to offer.

“A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.
============================
That certainly answers a lot of my questions.
Again Bubba, thanks for the link.

Allen you really ought to take a look at it as well.

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

Hey Gory? Fuck You.

Hmm, yes. Fuck me. Okie dokie.

In terms of high-rise fires, WTC was a complete anomaly. Fire shielding adds HOURS of protection against fires, plenty of time to allow firefighters to respond. No shielding, and you lose that response time. There’s never been a high-rise fire similar to WTC, and, insh’Allah, there won’t ever be again.

Sorry about the fuck you, but why the insults in your comment?

Cuz I’m a dick, ok? Jeez, do I have to be nice here too?

Besides, I love the “morans” meme; it makes me happy happy happy.

Again Bubba, thanks for the link.

No problem, and I like it, but I took it from some other SN commenter who deserves the credit. Here it is. Thank you Woodrowfan.

I’m nobody and have no credibility to lose.

No shit. What say we grow the fuck up. If you can’t conceive of how this happened unaided by the shadowy minions maybe it’s because your knowledge is lacking and you need to GET SOME MORE GOD DAMNED INFORMATION!!!

hur hur hur

Excuse me. I get sick of this magical-thinking let’s-wank-a-bit-and-pretend-it’s-real bullshit.

In other news, the (DC) metro stank this evening. I immediately suspected Al Qaeda of attacking us with rotten fish that it had gotten at the Port of Miami through some contacts it had with this guy in Jersey.

Um, Allan, you who throws out allegations and innuendo without even the most basic facts, I never said I was at home when the plane hit. I was driving north on 395 from my home (then in the Fairlington area) into DC. Take a look at the map, I was just coming up to Fort Myer on my left and the Pentagon was almost dead ahead. http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=pentagon&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.527387,59.238281&ie=UTF8&t=h&om=1&z=15&ll=38.865108,-77.061067&spn=0.015605,0.028925. Right before there, you come up a hill, so I didn’t see the plane till I crested the hill. I didn’t take a picture bcs I didn’t have a camera and I was concentrating on not hyperventilating and going “Holy fucking shit” while trying not to crash my car on a major highway. Multitasking like we do here.

i hereby withdraw all perceived “innuendos” and “allegations” I never intended, as i am clearly the stupidest mutherfucker ever to walk the planet. did i leave anything out? oh yeah, i am ignorant and have no credibility to offer. never said i had or was shit though. nice bunch of folks here. no you don’t have to be polite at all. thanks for the lesson in not commenting. i knew i didn’t have shit to say, just questions to ask, so why did i come here? fuckin’ idjit, like i said.

allan said,
The Twins fell at a rate faster than gravity will allow unassisted.

Well what were you suggesting? That the WTC had huge magnets installed in the basement, to be turned on at the crucial moment and accelerate the top floors downwards? Or were you thinking of giant downward-facing rockets installed on the top floors? Even in one of those weird scenarios with the demolition charges, once they explode, gravity is what brings the top of a building pancaking down on the lower floors.

OK, the Sadly,Nocracy are Mean Kids, but your post does kind of call out for a impolite response.

Please stop using that terrible picture. Really, I’m serious, it’s just not right. How would you like to look like that?