I’m sure that this was just the usual garbled Bushspeak; despite his ignorance, though, I think he’s actually right. AFAIK, we don’t have any formal alliance with Israel, so technically it’s not an ally.

There is no double standard. There are no standards whatsoever.

To quote one Sean Combs,

“It’s all about the benjamins, baby.”

Fuck Israel.

Aside from annie’s desire to fruck everyone, I think this is about proping up dildo regimes that will supply KY-Jelly on demand. Or, unless your prepared to take it up the blog, we’ll post all over your ass.

Will the people who hated on Kerry for his botched joke, but didn’t give a crap about Bush saying he never stops thinking of ways to hurt America or saying “bring ’em on” or blaming the sailors on the Lincoln for the “Mission Accomplished” banner or saying that Al Gore talks about Social Security like it’s some kind of federal program demand that Bush apologize for his slam against Isreal?

(crickets chirping, wind blowing through the leaves)

HAHAHAHAHA!

(hat tip to The Editors)

You’re grasping here, he didn’t slam Israel. And fuck Israel anyway. For Israel to be a state is against the will of God.

And Isreal does not = Jews. The nouns are not interchangealbe.

Off topic, but I’m watching the FL senate debate on dvr and I have to say,
Katherine Harris is an extraordinarily unattractive woman, in a pure, shallow, physical sense. She looks like an uglier Trent Lott.
Also, I’m not sure she knows english.

I like how Bush is explaining this like he just discovered it.
“See, now, people in the mIddle East, the controll the OIL. And we need this oil, because it makes everything work. So, the people, the Arabs, in these countries, they controll the PRICE for this oil, and that means you, have to pay more.”
No shit. Welcome to 1960.

Stay the course in Iraq or else the Jewish state here gets it.

He’s finally telling us the truth about why he invaded Iraq: It’s for the oil and to protect Israel.

Refreshing honesty for a change, even if expressed a bit incoherently.

His story would be even more honest if he just said because Karl told me to.

BUSH HAS JUST EXPLAINED WHY ALTERNATIVE ENERGY HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY SUPRESSED BY THE CONGLOMERATES FOR 50 YEARS: IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO MAKE TRILLIONS MORE ON WEAPONS AND WAR. GOP PROFITS = POLLUTION & DEATH.

If Kerry owes the Troops an apology?

Bush owes the Troops a resignation.

I knew Annieangel was a bible-thumper, but I didn’t know she was anti-semitic. Though I guess I could have inferred the latter from the former…

Botching a joke that makes troops look stupid is far, far worse, then sending them to march off to some godforsaken rock to die for nothing, owlbear. One.

Rep Boner just blamed the botched war on the generals. I am totally fucking outraged!!!!!!!!!1!

“I knew Annieangel was a bible-thumper, but I didn’t know she was anti-semitic.”

Uh, what has she said that’s anti-semitic? There are Jews who say the same exact things about Israel. The concept that Scripture forbids a Jewish state originated with Jewish groups.

Uh, what has she said that’s anti-semitic?

That was somewhat of a joke. We don’t know what the right-wing troll annieangel actually thinks. We’re not sure if her “Fuck Israel”‘s are “race-trolling” or not.

I like how Bush is explaining this like he just discovered it.

Oh yeah, I love the “People say, ‘What do you mean by that?’â€? Like it never occurred to anybody that it might happen.

Boy, it’s a good thing King Faisal didn’t think of that when he was mad about our support of Israel in the 1973 war… oh, wait.

Bush is saying that if we left the middle east the only thing that would help keep the middle eastern countries for screwing around with the oil supply would be if we agreed to abandon Israel. Personally, considering what he has done to international relations, I don’t think that would help us either. Oh and Annie, ask any Jew if Israel = Jew and what do you think they will say? Oh and please STFU about your irrelevant interpretations of your irrelevant book.

I’m with you Bigwig. My belief is that the only history our president is aware of is what he is spoon fed by his handlers. His arguments are never nuanced or consider any other point of view than his own. He doesn’t know how to lead and his advisors mostly only know how to campaign.

Ted said:
Uh, what has she said that’s anti-semitic?

That was somewhat of a joke. We don’t know what the right-wing troll annieangel actually thinks. We’re not sure if her “Fuck Israel�’s are “race-trolling� or not.

Please forgive me, for, deep down, I clearly know not what I do, but…

We do know what kind of troll annieangel is in this case. She’s not saying anything anti-semitic. She was clear on this: Judaism != Israel, Israel != Judaism. And (pleaseohpleaseohplease don’t make me say it) she’s exactly right. Nothing she’s said in this thread should be viewed as contentious. Provocative and hostile, sure. But so far she has yet to insert a foot into any mouth, hers or otherwise…

This is an unexpected, and probably unplanned revelation of truth from the administration, and I’m guessing the handlers and consultants are in a frenzy trying to figure out how to keep the Moron In Chief on point. He’s become more unhinged as time passes, and more defensive and off message. I believe he takes all the criticism extremely personally, not realizing he’s only a creation of his party’s deluded ideas.

People get all freaked out if you mention how fucked Israel deserves to be. OH MY GOD SHE SAID THE WORD ISRAEL AND FUCK IN THE SAME SENTENCE!!!!! ANTISEMITE!!!!

Bullshit. Israel is a STATE. Israel sucks, Israel is an EVIL state and so I say FUCK Israel.

Right up the ass.

Annie, I was going to comment how completely insane your ramblings sound on this particular subject, not to mention most others.
Then I remembered other posters have done so, with much more eloquence and humor than I could hope to muster.
But to reiterate, you’re batshit insane.

You’re whacked. 🙂

No, I’m wiggity-wiggity wack. But such a counter-punch should be commended, if not glorified in the annals (hehe) of thread commenting history, a triumph of the will. Something you’re familiar with, I’m sure.

What is wrong with you?

Call someone who can explain it all to you. I know it’s complicated, but with a little help you’ll eventually understand. Or not. Who cares, I’m feeding the troll ’cause I’m bored, and now that’s bored me more.

I donno, back in my old churchgoing days, I never got the idea that angels went around saying F*** anything, especially not Israel. You know, God supposedly = love and all.

So much for the transformational love of Jeebus, eh? People like this are just one of the many excellent reasons never to go to church: they remain unchanged in spirit except for the addition of overbearing self-righteousness.

“especially not Israel”

????????? Why is that??? Israel is a political state, and it is an evil state, a state that would love to blow the holy hell out of the Middle East.

I say we let them.

She’s not saying anything anti-semitic. She was clear on this: Judaism != Israel, Israel != Judaism.

You’re insane. That’s like saying China != Chinese people and Chinese people != China. What the fuck are you talking about?

Bullshit. Israel is a STATE. Israel sucks, Israel is an EVIL state and so I say FUCK Israel.

and

Israel is a political state, and it is an evil state, a state that would love to blow the holy hell out of the Middle East.

I say we let them.

Anyone else wanna step up and defend this rhetoric?

Nope, I’m just going to sit out here and wait for it to blow over.

Explain how criticism of Israel is anti-semetic. Gavin seems to think it is too, so why don’t you explain as well, Gavin?

Explain how criticism of Israel is anti-semetic. Gavin seems to think it is too, so why don’t you explain as well, Gavin?

Your server has problems.

This is a delicious sandwich. Should I do the dishes now or later?

Oh look, a squirrel!

Does that mean you can’t explain it, Gavin? I guess so.

That squirrel was lookin’ at me funny, so I consider it self defense.

And don’t get me started on the chipmunks…

What, lemonheads? What? You want a piece of this? Alvin, Theodore, come on — rumble!

So you can’t explain how criticism of Israel is anti-semetic, but you feel that it must be, somehow?

You should re-read your original post, Gavin.

Annie… Annie… Please calm down, you’re embarrassing me, and upsetting the chipmunks…

You all can troll as much as you want to avoid answering…..it just proves my point that you can’t expalin your own position.

Annie, honey, come back to bed. I need you to “squeeze” my “oranges”, if you know what I mean. And I know you do.

You’re insane. That’s like saying China != Chinese people and Chinese people != China. What the fuck are you talking about?

Gawd. You’re making me feel dirty taking Annie’s side, but honestly, what bloody choice have I?

It’s actually more like saying India != Hinduism and Hinduism != India. No, really. Even though this is a painfully imperfect analogy, it’s still light years beyond your “China” analogy, Ted.

Let’s try and spell this out for you:

Israel. Does. Not. Speak. For. All. Judaism.
Israel. Is. Not. Judaism.
Judaism. Is. A. Religion.
Israel. Is. A. State.
Not. All. Israelis. Are. Jewish.
Not. All. Jews. Are. Israeli.

One can criticize Judaism without making any comment upon Israel, and (despite the knee-jerk claims of American media) one can criticize Israel without making any comment upon Judaism. Is this REALLY so hard to understand? Judaism predates modern Israel by a wee bit of time, and I have no doubts what-so-ever that were Israel cease to exist tomorrow, Judaism would not wither and die. Nay, far from it.

Do recall that, in the history of Judaism, the Zionist project is relatively young. It was, what, in the 1890s that the subject of a Jewish homeland was first proposed and seriously debated. And initially, the general reaction was ambivilant and/or hostile. While its popularity did eventually grow to majority support, there were (and are) some segments of Judaism who refuse to support an explicitly Jewish state in general, or Israel in particular.

But I digress. The point was, and remains, painfully simple: Israel and Judaism are two distinct entities. Attacking both is attacking both, and attacking neither is attacking neither, but attacking one is NOT attacking the other.

Look, I realize the man is no genius, but the meaning in that quote is perfectly clear.

W is saying that if we allow “extremists” (he doesn’t refer to any group in particular, of course) to gain control over oil resources, those extremists will use that control to pressure the US into withdrawing support for Israel (and other, unnamed allies).

One can and should disagree with this argument in many ways, but it doesn’t seem to be a particularly shocking argument to make, so what’s with the whole I’m-so-flabbergasted routine?

Could someone please tell me what other interpretation Gavin might be suggesting, and how he might have arrived at it?

And just to make sure I’m perfectly clear, I’m attacking Ted’s attempt to stifle the very possibility of criticizing Israel with calls of anti-semitic foul. I am not trying to step up and defend Annie’s rhetoric of the form …[Israel] would love to blow the holy hell out of the Middle East. I say we let them. Such statements are, if I may use the technical term that others have used to classify them, batshit insane.

“Fuck Israel.”

Now I for one, take this threat to gang-bang the State of Israel seriously…sick, twisted threats of mass sex are uncivilized and deserve a response that equals that threat.

So analannie, are you going to give them all the crabs?

annieangel said,

November 2, 2006 at 21:21

“Your server has problems.”

Dear, you are comedy GOLD!1!!

Could someone please tell me what other interpretation Gavin might be suggesting, and how he might have arrived at it?

I was playing dumb for effect. It’s clear what Bush meant to say, but our topic lately has been ‘misspeaking,’ a la Kerry.

Oh, OK.

It really did kinda sound like Kerry was sayin’ that people who don’t do so well in school are more likely to end up in Iraq. Which is, I think, true (at least now, what with enlistment requirements being clobbered all to hell), but you’re not allowed to say it on TV.

And I guess you were just following Digby’s gubba-gubba-what act, so I was asking the wrong person.

Hey, rupertangel, I think most of your schooling of Ted should be received as, y’know, point well taken. But there’s one nuance that your lesson missed: the term “Jew” really doesn’t refer only to a person who practices Judaism; it’s also used as a cultural/ethnic identifier. I think that’s a part of what gets people up in arms (so to speak) about the grey area and overlaps they perceive among terms that are often used interchangeably (sometimes accurately, but typically not).

I think you mean HEBREW.

No. Hebrew’s the language, and an archaic term for the people.

Assuming you were talking to me, annie, but perhaps not.

Hebrews are the people who claim decsent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It is also a language, yes.

Jews can convert, its not unheard of, but if you aren’t born a Hebrew, you ain’t ever gonna be one.

Quick Annie, post more one-line comments so the grown-ups will look in your direction again.

Explain how criticism of Israel is anti-semetic. Gavin seems to think it is too, so why don’t you explain as well, Gavin?

Simple. Conservatives, such as yourself, have been accusing liberals of anti-semetism whenever we criticize Israel. We’re (or at least I) just holding you up to the same standard.

Jews can convert, its not unheard of, but if you aren’t born a Hebrew, you ain’t ever gonna be one.

*pfft* Pleanty of people convert to Judaism. Maybe not to Ultra-Orthodox Judaism like what you’re probably thinking of, but it happens alot.

I know Jews can be converts, that is what I meant by Jews can convert, might not have been clear enough on that, but you are either born a Hebrew or you’re not. It’s not a choice. Converting to Judaism is.

I’ve never accused anyone of anti-semitism for criticizing Israel, your remark is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time.

See maybe you all have a problem seperating religion from politics, but that is your problem. I think it’s because you hate Christianity so much, because you bash Christianity and Bush in the same breath, you mix the politics with the religion, not anyone else YOU DO IT, so if another country is led by a leader of a religion which is NOT Christianity, you still see criticism of the POLITICS of the country as bashing of the religion of the leader and the majority of the people of the country.

The problem is yours and it’s a big one.

Could you try that second sentence again and make it into, like, three sentences?

Hi, guyz (abd galz)!!
Miss me? i was in the “beloved” hospital from Halloween morning thru Thursday night. Fun! And bleeding expen$ive, of course. Haven’t got the bills yet, but if it’s not a total of between $50 and 100 grand, I’ll be entirely surprised. Unless it’s more, then not so much so. I’m not going into the gory details, since they aren’t anybody’s business, but suffice to say it involved many needles and lots o’ blood and other unpleasantness, and I am so happy to be alive [/sarcasm].
What? annie? Jews? Israel? The deuce you say‽
Man, I hate it when I bungle into one of these kind of threads.
Well, I’m gonna go. Pills to pop and all….

Sorry to hear, Marq. Hope you’re doing OK. I’m currently uninsured for the first time in my life, and knocking on wood (hehe), hoping nothing happens before the circumstances change.

Well, I am “lucky*” enough to be on Medicare at the ripe old age of 43, so I’ll only be responsible for 20% of those bills at most. Sadly, I probably don’t have 20% of those bills. Stay well, folks–healthcare is for the independantly wealthy, not for you or I.

*no, really not.