Much as I think that Foley is merely a small symptom of a far larger overreaching problem, namely the whole political environment in the States, I am sadly inclined to agree with Brad. It would be nice if I could turn on the talking heads and see a real debate of ideas about what to do in Iraq or how to de nuke North Korea, but the ratings seem to go up if all the pundits and politicians do is have a “see who can yell loudest contest.” I do console myself with the fact that the Republicans would like to be talking about anything other than Foley, only to find that on issue after issue, in poll after poll, the voters prefer the democrats, no matter how muddled THAT message is. There is a quiet desperation growing in the Republican camp, as their “We can’t trust the Democrats” campaign keeps falling flatter and flatter, as the public at large seems to be going “And what trust you instead?”

No wonder the studios didn’t want to promote Mike Judge’s “Idiocracy”. It was too close to the truth.

When sexually harassing teenage boys is illegal, only outlaws will be able to sexually harass teenage boys.

And oh yeah, if former Congressman Foley had had the benefit of a secure, government-recognized same-sex marriage, perhaps these tragic incidents could have been averted.

The Media is going to put North Korea in the headlines and ignore Foleygate, because they want to coverup the expose of Democrat knowledge of Foleygate.

Granted, North Korea is 10x more important than Foley. And it proves the failure of the Clinton foreign policy too.

So, what would a strong leader like Nancy Pelosi do to prevent a crisis with North Korea? Appeasement?

Finally saw V for Vendetta last night — I know, I know, I’m woefully behind the times and this post will appear OT. But it did make me want to take my small band of kindred spirits and infiltrate the studios and broadcast booths of CNN, FOX, etc. in order to have just ten minutes to tell the truth, with or without the Guy Fawkes mask. Of course ten minutes wouldn’t be enough and I’d end up screaming like Peter Finch in Network . . .

I agree that the we don’t live in an ideal world. But why wait for the media to get the message? If we can create grassroots organizations like Drinking Liberally to bring liberals together, why can’t we create grassroots organizations to bring liberals and conservatives together to have these substantive discussions without the knee-jerk partisanism?

Ed, you’re right. In my experience these informal discussions can work if they’re relatively small, if they’re hosted by some neutral organization like a school, and if no political Names show up to be the shiny object that pulls focus.

Of course you’ll still have the obligatory public-meeting-trolls who show up just to piss people off and pull facts out of their hats . . .

Smiling Mortician, can you pick me up on your way to FOX?
I too love that movie. It’s very popular here in the Middle East. Wonder why that is…

Hey Gary’s back! And still under the mistaken impression that the media luvs them so Democrats. Like how Katie Couric has only had 95% conservative guest commentators ~ she’s gotta be liberal!

Foleygate? Come on Gary, it’s either Cocktoberfest or Cocktober Surprise.

Get with the program.

So Gary is saying that the Republicans would LIKE for Foley and his teenage sexual abuse to dominate the news.

I’m afraid, that they must be ice skating in Hell, because I agree with Gary! Let’s keep the lurid, incompetent, opportunistic Republican leadership covering up of a sexual predator right on the top of everyone’s mind right up until oh, say November.

Ewwww. Now I have to go shower.

If we can create grassroots organizations like Drinking Liberally to bring liberals together, why can’t we create grassroots organizations to bring liberals and conservatives together to have these substantive discussions without the knee-jerk partisanism?

Make a list of conservatives who would be into something like that (and no, apostates like Belgravia Dispatch and Balloon Juice don’t count- they’ve thrown away their VRWC membership cards long ago).

I’m afraid I agree with Gary about Korea too. As sick and dysfunctional as the Republican leadership is with Foley, thoroughly demonstrating the need to be voted out of office, North Korea is maybe a bit more important. So which incidence of embarassing incompetence will we focus on?

Yeah, the Clinton approached only worked for ten years.

Bush pre-emption policy failed in four.

Gary, go back to sixth grade civics class. Speaker of the House Pelosi would not have any power to effect foreign policy, that’s the President’s damn job. If you’re saying tha Bush is not up to the job (a sentiment I agree with) then just admit it and then we can talk about what a PRESIDENT Pelosi might do.

The NK nuclear test is the greatest failure of this administration. All the wingnuts will be talking about how this is Clinton’s fault because he negotiated with them, but the simple fact is that Iran and NK sped up their nuclear programs and became much more brazen about them as soon as Bush’s cowboy diplomacy ramped up. The invasion of Iraq only seemed to encourage them.

But for the punchline, remember how Libya giving up some centrifuges showed the triumph of preemption?

All the wingnuts will be talking about how this is Clinton’s fault because he negotiated with them

For the sake of argument, let’s pretend that’s true. The Bush administration had… how long? to come up with a plan? Six years? Eep. Another crappy talking point down the shitter.

When I read the first paragraph, I thought you were about to say North Korea nukes won’t be a big deal because because they’re not “Islamo-fascists” and don’t have oil.

Hey Gary, what should the media really be talking about?
The massive deficit?
The ongoing unending war in Iraq?
How North Korea, a member of the Axis of Evil which Bush promised would NOT obtain the weapons of mass destruction, is now a nuclear power?
Warrantless Wiretapping?
Torture?
Bush’s plan of all slogans and nothing else for the world?
How hating the media and the democrats is MORE important that hating child molesters and their enablers?
Just wondering…
Personally, I agree with you that if there is a war in the Korean Peninsula, it will be the incoming majority leader’s fault for attacking the president rather than taking an oath of fealty.

I don’t think the Korean test will really grab attention, in large part because it’s just not a surprise. I bet people who have been semi-paying attention assumed that NK already had tested nukes.

You can’t really blame people for not being all that upset at the NK test, therefore — it’s not a sign of apathy, but of, well, Bush fatigue. What’s one more colossal fuckup, more or less?

To those who want to claim that the Clinton administration’s “Agreed Framework” somehow led to the NorKor atomic test yesterday, let me point out the painfully obvious. On January 29, 2002 our cowboy president bush described three nations as belonging to the “Axis of Evil”. Then, on March 19th, 2003, American troops invaded and subsequently occupied one of those nations. Just how can this outcome be a surprise to anyone?

mikey

NK nukes just means the administration will say “See we told you we needed to invade Iraq to avoid this happening there.” Then they’ll re-write history to say they wanted to invade NK too, but the Democrats wouldn’t let them. No matter what this says about the administration’s failures, it won’t be interpreted as such. Given our media and general population, these missile tests are probably good news for the administration.

The funny thing is, out of the 3, he invaded the country least likely to have nukes in the next century.

Look, you stupid moonbattical lefties! Don’t you find it a little coincidental that Kim Jong Il set off this nuke in October? He is OBVIOUSLY working with Nancy Pelosi and Dick Durbin to try and influence the elections!! I’ll bet George Soros gave him the money for that nuke!!

We need to investigate what the democrats knew about the NorK nuke program, and when they knew it. The democrats must be asked UNDER OATH if they knew that North Korea was trying to develop a nuclear program, and why they didn’t say anything about it until just before the elections!!

Oh, and Michael Moore is fat!!!

On January 29, 2002 our cowboy president bush described three nations as belonging to the “Axis of Evil�. Then, on March 19th, 2003, American troops invaded and subsequently occupied one of those nations. Just how can this outcome be a surprise to anyone?

See above.

The funny thing is, out of the 3, he invaded the country least likely to have nukes in the next century.

Well, yeah — those things are DANGEROUS! Much better (the “thinking” went) to start by rolling over an oil-rich country where our triumphant troops would be greated with candy & flowers. Of course, it didn’t work, but just the fact that the geniuses in the Oval Office would risk sending hundreds of thousands of American troops to Iraq kinda proved how much they believed their own bullshit about those WMDs.

Make a list of conservatives who would be into something like that (and no, apostates like Belgravia Dispatch and Balloon Juice don’t count- they’ve thrown away their VRWC membership cards long ago).
Well, that’s why it needs to be grassroots, not people who have a stake in their ideology, but people who want to talk. I don’t know who out there is like that, but I can’t imagine everyone is crazy.

now if north korea could get itself involved in a sex scandal the media might pay attention

but I can’t imagine everyone is crazy.

Imagine harder. I can.

I can certainly imagine that everyone’s crazy. It’s pretty easy to do. My experience, however, tells me that it’s really just a percentage (for the sake of argument, let’s say, oh, 33% of Americans are nuts). Another percentage, say somewhere between 49 and 51%, is actually thinking fairly rationally about observable facts with which they have at least a passing familiarity — although they don’t always speak their thoughts aloud, which can be a problem.

It’s the other 16-18% that we may have some hope of reaching through conversation. I run into the people in this group fairly often, actually. They’re not nuts; they’re just uninformed and either exhausted or lazy, and so they tend to go where the wind blows. Since most of the wind of late has come from the blustery administration and its co-conspirators in the media, that’s the story they’ve been buying. At least some of them are willing to look at reality and think about its implications. The problem, of course, is that it takes a fair amount of energy to encourage them to participate in conversation, and a fair amount of patience to present the facts they need in order to be convinced.

So maybe if we all tried out Ed’s suggestion on a small scale, we could shift those percentages just enough . . .

but I can’t imagine everyone is crazy.

Imagine harder. I can.

I don’t need to imagine it. One of my neighbors is a wingnut who believes that the Clenis wrecked the economy, running up a huge deficit and nearly bankrupting the Fortune 500 by giving all of our tax dollars to lazy welfare queens, and only Dubya’s infinite wisdom, compassionate conservatism and savvy have repaired the heinous damage of the 90s, thus giving us this Republican paradise of peace, prosperity and small government.

You don’t want to know what this prat ‘thinks’ about foreign policy. You really don’t.

I hear you, Gentlewoman. I know those guys too, and the best thing you can do is walk away. But I still say there’s hope for the apathetic ignorant — they’re a different animal.

I’ll stick with what’s fast becoming my standby metaphor for Foley & the GOP. It’s like getting Al Capone on tax evasion charges.

I don’t know where this stupidity comes from, but I do know that it has spread to every facet of our lives.

How could you possible say something like this? We know exactly where this shit comes from. It comes from Bill O. Every news outlet takes their queues from him, didn’t you get the memo?

Now in an ideal world, I would love to eschew all talk of Mark Foley in favor of substantial policy issues.

Oh, give me a break. You would not. The Mark Foley scandal is a news maelstrom of transcendent perfection. It is 24-karat man-bites-dog. There is a certain irreduceable perfection to some news stories; they will ALWAYS be news, they will always be fodder for discussion, and there is nothing evil or wrong about this. Clinton shouldn’t have been impeached over Monica, but it is very hard to argue, in the contemporary day and age, that it shouldn’t have been a story at all. (Unless perhaps on dog-bites-man grounds. Political official has extramarital affair – not exactly shocking. Republican congressman has cybersex with teen boy during floor vote, though — come on!!! You’re seriously going to argue this shouldn’t be a major news story?)

Michael Kinsley recently wrote an op-ed diagnosing the ills that have humbled the LA Times. He recounts, among other things, a story: a vagrant had broken into the house of an elderly former movie star, cut off the man’s head, and then committed a string of other outrageous and bizarre acts. The story, however, did not run on Page 1. Kinsley is right to think of this as pointlessly suicidal for any news organization.

I’ve got it! We float the accusation that Kim Jong Il murdered Jon Benet Ramsey with one of his nuclear weapons. The press will be all over it!

Dude, when does American Idol start again? Is it before or after merkin football season?

gentlewoman, you just described my fil. do you live in enumclaw?

Enumclaw . . . my second-favorite name after Puyallup. Well, and Humptulips — but that goes without saying.

Queets

The North Korean nuke test should get all the press it deserves – A 30 second bit on the evening news stating that they declared that they tested a nuke, but that the experts who monitored the test with seismic equipment are divided as to whether it had a tremendously low yield or failed to detonate completely. (Estimates of the force of the blast range from 1000 tons of TNT to 10k tons, based on who’s massaging the data. The Hiroshima bomb was 12.5 ktons.)