He could have been a good man if he had been shot every time he opened his mouth.

Dood. These criminals invaded a real country, started a war, because they were certain they understood the landscape. And now they don’t know the difference? Three fucking years later? And they are not in the dock, under prosecution? Well fuck me raw……

mikeyy

I heard Lott saying today that he doesn’t understand why so many people think threatening detainees with military attack dogs is brutal and excessive.

Makes me wonder if he was at Selma at any point.

Dumb fucking crackerheaded cracker.

Gee, I just can’t see why they couldn’t have just hugged each other and formed that Jeffersonian Democracy in two weeks.

They must be crazy or something.

Why do Sunnis kill Shiites? How do they tell the difference? They all look the same to me.�

Where Trent is coming from: Good Christians hate the people who look different. Cause they’re black, or Asian, or Hispanic. Not like Jeebus, who was born 2000 years ago in the Mideast, wearing a dark blue suit and a red tie.

Trent is his own personal kind of stupid. His nephew was a prof of mine in undergrad, in ancient greek history, and he was smart, funny, leftist, and not fond of talking about his uncle. And this was back before the Empire.

atheist: nice Flannery O’Connor ref. That and other of her stories ought to be required reading for these theofascists, not that they’d get it.

By way of following up on an earlier SN link today, I watched the atrios vid, which included the CSPAN vid of Lott ‘splaining how we wouldna hardly had none-a these here problems with the nigras had we voted in the dixiecrats way back when (cut to visual of Strom nodding off, even more out of touch than in the previous century) . . .

Christ, are these people living the ENTIRELY unexamined life?

Yup. Stupid question.

Poor Mr. Lott. He’s sitting at home shaking his head right now thinking, “It’s the damn towels on their heads. That’s it: who can tell the difference when they’ve all got towels on their heads? Sheesh.”

I don’t use this word a lot, but it fits here: fuckwad.

I worked for Trent’s brother in law and nephew. They were both just as stupid as this. With all respect to Retardo and Travis, would you southerners just do a favor to the rest of the country and secede already?

Wow, that’s depressing.

So, Trent-baby, has it occurred to you to, oh, I don’t know, ASK A FUCKING EXPERT ON MID-EAST AFFAIRS? After FOUR FUCKING YEARS?

Man, I want to get to a position where I can suck this much at my ob and not get introuble.

Sorry Brad, but he’s a racist redneck from hell.

Yeah, except the REAL annonymous, poorly-named bastard has CAPITALIZED letters. Booyah.

I like the first part of his comments, where he’s like, “REAL americans don’t CARE about the war. Neener.”

http://www.fuckthesouth.com

So then, explain why they are killing each other.

Good ol’ Trent, fully supportive of a war where he doesn’t know what the fuck is going on. And ol’ Strom isn’t around to give him any advice on these brown people.

I dunno, Annie, same reason Protestants and Catholics kill each other?

Just a guess.

“Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And EVERYBODY hates the Jews!”
-Tom Lehrer, comedy genius songwriter

I wasn’t trying to say Trent has any worth as a person, but that he’s willfully chosen to be such a douche. His nephew was, presumably still is, a decent, intelligent guy, and he grew up in close proximity to the rest of his family, if I remember the little we were able to get out of him correctly. Trent is worse than a dumb redneck because he knows what he’s really doing, and still doesn’t care.

Maybe they don’t like each other, Annie. I mean, like, totally.

Well they CAN’T really tell the difference outside of a mosque, they ask for ID cards, that’s how they tell. Some people in Iraq are carrying ID cards in two names, a Sunni and a Shi’ite.

So I guess unless they are living in the now religiously defined areas, they can’t tell each other apart unless they check the IDs.

And WOW, I didn’t know the Protestants and the Papists were killing each other because they’ve been invaded by America! *snark*

I asked about the death squads TWO DAYS ago, and you all acted as if it was the work of insurgents.

How do you feel about death squads, Annie? Sounds kinda hot to me. Mmmm.

Oh, so the Sunnis and Shi’ites are killing each other cause we invaded? Wow. That was a bonehead move. Who the fuck called that one? *snark*

Are you even trying? Come on, throw me a hard one. Try something sports related, I suck at those.

If Annie is serious, sectarian violence usually occurs because a) one group is larger and/or more entrenched than the other group, b) the other group wants a bigger piece of the pie, c) it is convenient for the larger/entrenched group to discriminate against/oppress the other group in order to keep their outsized share of the pie. Sen. Lott, of course, is well familiar with this principle, and if Strom Thurmond had been elected in ’48, we “wouldn’t have had these problems” that we’ve had when we tried to deny racial minorities a fair shake in society and they refused to accept such treatment.

As a commentor on Eschaton noted, in Northern Ireland, where they’re all pasty and have bad teeth and are drunk 24/7*, they don’t ask you if you’re a Papist or a Protty bastard. They ask what school you went to or what football team you support. The answer you give can determine whether you get a bullet in the back of the head or not.

Has Annie replaced Gary Rupert as the resident S,N! rightwing doofus?

* may contain sarcasm

Well, slaughtering one another for sectarian reasons is stupid and pointless, and historically speaking has never really led to one religion gaining “markrt share” over another (that often happens in spite of the intra-religious squabbling). And the universe, as always, doesn’t give a flaming shit whether we live or die. Then the mindset of folks like Monsieur Lott lurch dangerously close to, “Ah, fuck it! Nuke ’em all, an’ let Jeebus sort ’em out!!1!!”

I think it’s time to make a prediction about something that should crop up in the next couple o’ weeks, Karl Rove’s threatened “October Surprise.” What is it gonna be? I don’t think they’tr gonna pull Osama out of a hat-Pakistan just isn’t cooperating on that one. And they could start their little “We can bomb regime change into Iran with absolutely no unforeseen consequences!”, but I don’t quite think that’s a go presently (I think they’re saving that for the ’08 race for St. McCain–yecch). But, back in ’03, I was honestly expecting Shrubco to plant WMD evidence so that they could say, Hey, look–we were right to invade! Bwah-ha-ha-ha!!1!” I mean, it’s not like they haven’t stooped to every other nadir of wartime behavior, so why didn’t they “prove themselves right?” Then a saw a bit about the current idiot House majority leader on Hardball, yapping away about Saddam = al Qaeda and WMD, WMD, WMD. And I was like, “Why is this moron flappin’ on about all this discredited crap?” And it struck me, “Because, they are finally gonna ‘find’ the WMDs!”
Sure, sure, like everything else in this stupid war, this “discovery” will be incompetently pulled off. It needn’t be particularly convincing. It merely has to make enough voters “believe” in the Rs to let them keep their majorities in Congress, to get them over the hump of November 7th. After that, it can become incredibly obvious that it was all a sham, and there still won’t be significant bad consequences for Rethuglicans. Why? Because the low-level soldiers who plant the evidence in Iraq will be yet another in our endless supply of “bad apples!” No one could have foreseen that a “rogue” group of troops could take it upon themselves to plant evidence, and the higher-up muckity-mucks at Defense had no idea that this shameful thing was going on, but they’ll promise a full investigation.
And Rove will once again have successfully fucked the rat.

Sigh…looks like I’m going to have to spend a lot of time doing this lately.

Henry – aa is a classic, old school internet troll. Responding to her at all just encourages the trolling. She’s not interested in actual debate, just in pissing people off.

As the kids like to say nowadays on this newfangled intertubes thingie…please don’t feed the trolls.

Lott’s comments were taken out of conntext.

Or, lets see what else the Big Golden Book of Republican Talking Points suggest for situation like this.

Oh, this is good!

All politicians say stupid things, like when John Kerry said that mean thing about Dick Chaney’s daughter or when Al Gore siad he inventend the Internet.

Mister T_R, you forget the main talking points.

Clinton got a bj and Micael Moore is fat.

Marq, my comment was offered as a response to those who said the religious groups within a country make war on each other because “they hate each other.” That argument is tautological. They hate each other because they’re defending their stature in society; it isn’t visceral, it’s cold blooded.

Sounds like Trent is saying he completely understands hating on the black folks, even if they believe the exact same things you do, just because they look different. Now there’s a sensible reason to hate somebody.

Look, it’s not hard. The Sunnis have horns and the Shi’ites have tails. Oh, and republicans have toupees.

And democrats have halos, and FOR GOD’S SAKE MAKE THIS NIGHTMARE STOP! MAKE IT STOP!!11!

Coming from someone else, this might have been a poignant comment about how our similarities are greater than our differences. But, I mean, it’s Trent Lott.

“It’s hard for Americans, all of us, including me, to understand what’s wrong with these people,� he said. “Why do they kill people of other religions because of religion?

Gee, I don’t know, hair-helmet. Let’s see – as late as the end of the eighteenth century, this kind of shit was still going on in Christendom.

Shortly after that, some farsighted individuals thought it would be swell to separate church and state to prevent exactly that sort of thing. It largely caught on in the West, and has done more in the last 200 years to increase tolerance among neighbors than Christianity did in the previous 1500, since fortune-cookie platitudes about meek people may sound nice, but really don’t have any effect on the way people live their lives.

So if you like that sort of thing, thank a secularist. Give your friendly neighborhood atheist a hug.

First, Gore never said he invented the internet. The media spun it and then spun the spun and it was Established Fact (warning: may not be an actual fact).

Second, Lott is either a rascist idiot or an idiotic rascist. Maybe both…

Third, the Sunnis and Shittes kill each other for the same reasons the Protestants and Catholics killed each other in medieval Europe (and in the recent past in North Ireland). It isn’t jsut related to share of the economy or place in the government ~ a lot of it is the religious differences. I suppose they tell each other apart by name or neighborhood. Plus while all dark-skinned people may look alike to Trent Lott, he may not be aware that all white people look alike to some dark-skinned people. A hard concept to grasp…

And lastly, fuck the stupid trolls.

Trent Lott: he’s like a racist hippie from hell.

You know, you’re really giving hippies a bad name….

gjdodger said, Marq, my comment was offered as a response to those who said the religious groups within a country make war on each other because “they hate each other.� That argument is tautological. They hate each other because they’re defending their stature in society; it isn’t visceral, it’s cold blooded.

I gotta disagree with this one. There’s rarely anything logical about hate. The truth might lie a bit closer to: They think just like Trent Lott–only they CAN tell the difference!

hey, i blame lincoln and some guy, trent lott isn’t stupid because he’s southern. i point out yet again that the north isn’t blameless in racism, stupidity, republican fascism, and evil. jesus, the cowboy-in-chief is from connecticut. thanks.

I think T_R was being sarcastic . . .

For a country that is currently detaining and torturing Afghan peasants and Saudi students for no other reason than they look like ‘terrorists’ (regardless of any proof they may or may not have), it’s typical. Ask the Hutus what a Tutsi looks like. Or vice versa. Or a Serb the defining characteristics of a Bosnian. Or a Croat. Or, for that matter, ask one of the future GOP goon squad captains what a Bush-hater looks like, as opposed to them. I’m sure they can give you an answer.

jesus, the cowboy-in-chief is from connecticut. thanks.

But, of course, because he claims Texas — and they’re stupid enough to believe him — I don’t think that proves the point you want it to. Let’s see, who else?

Newtie was born in PA, but he found more comfortable political ground in Georgia. Then Ol’ Noosey Allen, he of the Confederate envy, had to move from Cali to Richmond in order to feel comfortable with his own racism. Hell, even Santorum has to live in VA in order to represent PA.

While it’s undeniable that, yes, stupidity is everywhere, only the South embraces it as a righteous path to combat Eastern elitists.

Don’t harsh on hippies, man.

I echo liberalsouth. You ought to talk to some of the people in the rural NE sometime (relatives there). Amazingly you can’t tell the difference between them and the rural southerner by anything other than accent. And that is not to imply rural people are ignorant and racist, but they tend to share similar perspectives.

“Why do they kill people of other religions because of religion?”

I dunno Trent. Think there might be some Americans that could help you understand that? You know, surviving Native Americans whose culture and religion didn’t quite mesh with the Manifest Destiny crowd that came over from Europe (and bred halfwits like you).

Naw. I have yet to see an example of ethnic or racial intolerance that could not be explained as a function of economics. If you say, “They just hate each other, man,” that sounds a whole lot like the Republican argument that the Muslim terrorists “hate us for our freedoms.”

While we’re at it, check out the other shit Trent-o-matic said, quoted in the same CNN article:

“No, none of that,” Lott told reporters after the session when asked if the Iraq war was discussed. “You’re the only ones who obsess on that. We don’t and the real people out in the real world don’t for the most part.”

Yeah, that war that’s supposedly the central front in fighting terror, and continues to pile up bodies on all sides – it’s not so important after all.. Get over it, willya?

And if you’re an Iraqi shopkeeper, or a USian soldier, and you’re (reasonably) obsessed with not getting killed this morning – you’re not a real person, and the hell you live in isn’t the real world.

Jillian, I’m headed for South America on October 6th, leaving from Miami. Perhaps you would like to meet me at the airport with your passport.

You ought to talk to some of the people in the rural NE sometime (relatives there). Amazingly you can’t tell the difference between them and the rural southerner by anything other than accent.

True. But there’s a difference, and it’s a HUGE one. The Northern Rednecks generally aren’t the ones who run the politicial machines, have the political power and represent the state(s) in question. Idiots, racists and cretins are everywhere — but they’re popular in the South.

Personally, I think the whole schism would end right quick if you just gave everybody in that country two or three shrooms. But I doubt Trent would agree.

That’s ok. I’ll take Trents shrooms…

mikey

The problem is that when the government in Iraq was created, it was created by giving the different religions representation in government based on their numbers.

DUH. That and Shi’ites are nutbars.

I hear Ireland is lovely this time of year…

If your grandfather was an Irish citizen (but not your father ??) who immigrated to the US, you can get an Irish passport.

Run, don’t walk, to your nearest Irish consulate.

Does anyone remember Bosnia? Or Kosovo?

If you have mixed religio-ethnic groups with long-standing historical enmity, and then you remove an authoritarian state that was providing the foundation for civil order, you will wind up with lots of civil disorder that invariably takes the form of ethnic conflict. The reason for this is that in times of civil disorder people become tribal. It is a natural defense mechanism for people. Once people “go tribal”, the violence feeds on itself until the tribes wind up in separate geographic regions (i.e., you get ethnic cleansing).

Despite what appears to be the predominant belief in America, this behavior is basic human nature and has nothing to do with the color of people’s skin or the religion they worship. And it really doesn’t matter whether they all look alike to us or not.

The chaos was a predictable result of our toppling of Saddam. Though it gets tiresome repeating this over and over, invading Iraq was a colossally stupid idea (unless you are looking for chaos, death, and destruction, always a possibility with the neocons), AND the invasion was carried out with a truly stunning lack of competence. The resultant clusterfuck is really without precedent in America. It may well be our undoing (which “undoing” arguably happened when the “torture and concentration camp bill” was passed yesterday).

True. But there’s a difference, and it’s a HUGE one. The Northern Rednecks generally aren’t the ones who run the politicial machines, have the political power and represent the state(s) in question. Idiots, racists and cretins are everywhere — but they’re popular in the South.

Actually, Jay, I agree with King Spirula. I think that you are overestimating the supposed ‘powerlessness’ of racists in the North.

The fault line of the Civil War will never really disappear, but it is not the biggest dividing line of today.

Does anyone remember Bosnia? Or Kosovo?

Yep. I’ve been making this exact argument since ’02. The part you leave out is the darkly amusing history. All of these “hot zones” were created when an empire collapsed and the British arbitrarily drew the borders. The various tribes had long before figured out who lived where and lived (mostly) in peace. Then, in the Balkans, in the Middle East, in Africa, Asia, the Pacific, everywhere, the lovely parting gift the Brits left was to make these incompatible groups countrymen. These mad, arbitrary “nations” only hold together under the dictatorial tyranical rule of a “strongman” like Hussein or Milosevich or Suharto. It’s part of the underlying horror in bush’s spreading of democracy. When you let people go directly from the battlefield to the ballot box, you don’t get a democracy, you get a civil war. It’s a lesson we’ll have to be willing to learn at some point…

mikey

trust Trent Lott to go to the heart of the matter like that.

atheist —

Then point out a Northern state with as reactionary senators and state houses as Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Texas and Tennessee, to name a few — and that’s not including places like Kentucky (which doesn’t admit it was part of the Union), North Carolina and Virginia which have Reps way, way, way to the right of almost any Northeast republican.

Indiana, I suppose, but you have to at least come up with examples to make that point, don’t you?

The problem is that when the government in Iraq was created, it was created by giving the different religions representation in government based on their numbers.

[I know, I know, don’t feed the trolls… but I can translate them, can’t I?]

The problem is that when the government in Iraq was created, it was created by allowing 15 million Iraqis to vote — including people who had religious beliefs, do you believe it? — and not prohibiting them from voting for anybody they damn well felt like, including religious parties. What we should have done was told them who was going to be in charge, put that person in charge and let that person tell everyone how to do things. Someone to “dictate” policies and laws, if you will. (I don’t know what we would call such a person. Anybody have any ideas?)

Jay,

As an Indiana native, you nailed it, though there are some very progressive areas throughout the state. In all fainess, the senators there have been pretty moderate in my lifetime, but the statehouse has always been reactionary.

though there are some very progressive areas throughout the state

Yes, and we should not lose sight of the reality that red states have plenty of progressives fighting the good (often losing) battle — at the same time that blue states have plenty of reactionary wingers fighting to retain power where they can. For example, my state is pretty reliably blue as long as you’re within a hundred miles of the Pacific (and I’m forever grateful that most of us live close to the sea) — but go inland and you’ll find some scary damn pockets where they elect to congress people like Doc Hastings . . .

So it’s crucial to encourage, not alienate, the red-state lefties — if we want to change the balance of power in this country, we need to pull a few more states through the purple and into the blue (god I hope that doesn’t make me a spaghetti-puller . . . or — wait — is spaghetti-pushing the bad one?)

laughing – it took me awhile but I think that pushing the spaghetti is better than pulling it according to Coach Dave.
Evan Bayh’s dad was the last fairly progressive elected official from Indiana I can think of, ironically losing his senate seat to an idiot named Dan Quayle, who’s family owns the state’s largest newspaper among other things.

Ah, Dan Quayle. How sad is it that I yearn for the days of Danny the Q and his anatomically correct dolls from . . . uh . . . whatever the name of that South American country is?

Uh

Potatoe!

Ah, Dan Quayle. How sad is it that I yearn for the days of Danny the Q and his anatomically correct dolls from . . . uh . . . whatever the name of that South American country is?

Potatoe!

The one where the natives all speak Latin?

I think we need to start an Amazon wish list for Senator Lott.

I know that I’m going out on a limb, assuming he can read and all, but perhaps he has a staffer who can read out loud to him. I’d start with a random half dozen books by Albert Hourani, as long as it included this one.

Incidentally, who here wants to bet that Lott is the kind of guy who calls Iranians “Arabs”?

I think it’s brilliant, this smear campaign against racists by associating them with Trent Lott.

What we should have done was told them who was going to be in charge, put that person in charge and let that person tell everyone how to do things. Someone to “dictate� policies and laws, if you will. (I don’t know what we would call such a person. Anybody have any ideas?)

Oh, that’s easy. Had everything gone according to the neocons’ wildly unrealistic dreams, such a person would be called “Ahmed Chalabi.” Thus endeth another edition of Atrios’ Easy Answers to Easy Questionsâ„¢.

Incidentally, who here wants to bet that Lott is the kind of guy who calls Iranians “Arabs�?

Nah, he calls them “terrists” or “peoples of terrist descent”.

Me sarcastic?

I’m a tipical Republican. I dont even know wat that meanns.

Lott isn’t insane, he’s just using an updated version of the same Southern Strategy he has used his whole career.