So ok, Ortiz has single-handedly won more games this year than Benitez has single-handedly lost, but look at it this way. It’s only AUGUST!!

mikey

I mean, what the hell.
It’s called ‘selling your soul to the devil’ Brad. And WE do not approve.

Red Sox= why Brad is not the perfect man.

JUST KIDDING GAVIN. I LOVE YOU MORE

a Red Sox fan always stay’s through the 9th.

15 times in his career now.

15 times.

jeebus.

also, yes, Papi was clutch, but those 3 innings of relief pitching from Snyder were every bit as clutch.

I hate Benitez. However, I’m still a Manny fan. There isn’t another player on the field today that’s half as cool as Manny. Caveman had some cool style,. but he sold out to the evil empire…and look what that’s gotten him…

Damnit, I am not a transplan!

Hey, I second my man-love to Papi to no one, but it was K Snyde who won that game, and with reason. That many outs in relief without a run (a run, btw, we really needed to save)….

PS Abreu is gonna have nothin’.

Fuck you. Fuck Papi. Goddamn it. It’s not just the keg I have riding on the season series between Cleveland and Boston, but I picked up my daughter right before the 8th inning and she had to watch it, too. Fuck Ortiz. Goddamn it.

In the big trades today, the Tribe picked up M. Ramirez. I don’t think they realized it as Max, not Manny. Jesus, I hate baseball.

That doesn’t impress me. You want to impress me? Have him play a position 12 games a year, instead of taking batting practice.

Make that 162, not 12.

Oh, for one year, can we avoid having the R-sox or Bankees in the playoffs? For variety’s sake? The Blue Jays are too far off, but let’s try something different, like Tampa Bay.

At least we are getting a break from the Braves this year.

Ortiz is a definite spaghetti-pusher.

As a fan of the Cleveland Indians, let me just say that your beloved Big Papi can go smoke cocks in Hell.

I never understood that NobodySpecial,

Who would want to watch Papi play the field? Do you think Manny’s adventures in left-field make him more impressive as a player or less? How is this even a standard? Bonds for the past ten years has moved like a statue in left field and you can practically hear the hinges on his knees creak — but this makes him a better player?

Or how about a closer who has an ERA under, say, 1.00 — now, he doesn’t pitch every day and he usually has to only get 3 or 4 outs. Easy. Yet, in the history of the game, there have been very, very, very few people who are that good. Isn’t it impressive, then, that a specialist does his specialty better than anyone else?

Ozzie Smith was a great, Hall of Fame player — but he could barely hit his weight. Does this detract from the fact that he was the best defensive shortstop ever?

And anyway, Ortiz is not that bad in the field, but of course, his greatness would never come from his exploits at first anyway. So I’m not sure what your point is, unless it’s to be pig-headedly determined to suck the joy out of baseball, the true passion of the purist.

Jay- baseball fans like NobodySpecial annoy the piss out of me. They’re the sports equivalent of Dana Carvey’s Grumpy Old Man- they think everything was better in the goode ole dayes when men used to shave their nipples when a splitery piece of wood… AND THEY LOVED IT!!!!

Yes, NobodySpecial, I really want to see a crappy-assed pitcher strike out three times a game. That makes baseball so so much more PURE. Similarly, quarterbacks like Tom Brady, Joe Montana and John Elway didn’t have to play defense like Sid Luckman and Slingin’ Sammy Baugh! NOW THOSE WERE MEN!!!! And look at Brady, relying on Adam Vinatieri to kick his field goals for him! Fuck that! Back in MY DAY, George Blanda would play QB and kick his own damn field goals himself!!!! GAAAAAAAH!!!! FAAAAAAAG QUARTERBAAAAAAACKS!!!! GAAAAAAHH!!!!

Ozzie Smith was a great, Hall of Fame player — but he could barely hit his weight.

well, this was before the steroids era so he was super light. baseball-reference.com says he weighed 150 and his career batting average was .262.

Ozzie was just the frickin’ man. Even though range factor is a very imperfect measure of a player’s defense, Ozzie’s is so absurdly high that it can’t be dismissed. Look at 1984 where the RF for shortstops was 3.98 and Ozzie had a RF of bloody 5.40. He got to almost 50% more balls than the regular shortstop.

Put me down in the anti-DH camp. It’s about the strategy. Your pitcher is going along good, but his spot is due up while you’re rallying, and you really need a run. Do you pinch hit? I’m just not for speciallization. A baseball player should be a baseball player, not a hitter.The DH will never go away unfortunately, because people want to watch mutants hit ball far, and the union will never be allow it. They’ve gotta protect hitting machines like Edgar Martinez who can swing the bat like but barely walk. Fuck that! NL style play all the way! Sorry if I’m annoying the piss out of you Brad R.

Funny, I don’t remember a special post after the Angels totally bitchslapped Schilling the other night. Although, in Schilling’s defense, it’s difficult to pitch with ESPN’s collective mouth wrapped around your cock.

chris p,

Yes, ozzie’s .660 OPS was really the reason he made the HOF. I was using ‘hyperbole’ to describe the Wizard’s offensive prowess, such as it was and to prove the point I was trying to make — there are many ways to be valuable to your team and Oz was, overall, a drag on his team’s offense.

Yet, he is inarguably a Hall of Famer. Ortiz would be as ‘valuable’ in the field as Ozzie was at the plate.

Come on Gus: people want to watch mutants hit ball far. This is your anti-DH rant?

As I recall, Barry, McGwire and Sosa’s assault on the record books took place in the NL. And they ‘played’ the field. I also understand that they helped fill their respective ballparks.

And the beauty of the NL ‘strategy’ is about one degree more involved than the AL’s. It’s hardly chess. I’d go so far to argue that the AL’s recent dominance has less to do with the DH than it does to the way the NL plays. Small ball gives up too many outs, which, if you believe Bill James, is a bad way to play baseball. Outs are precious. In CERTAIN situations, it makes sense, but not in all or even most.

So those botched hit and runs, sacrifice bunts, the caught stealing, the double switches and pinch hitting? All the ‘strategies’ that NL boosters find so compelling are actually strategically inferior to drawing walks, working the counts and hitting the crap out of the ball.

It might be less entertaining intellectually — but it’s a lot more successful strategy.

Okay, the mutant thing was a bit glib. Yes, less entertaining intellectually. It’s a matter of one’s personal taste. I’d rather watch a rally cobbled together with base hits and stolen bases. With some exceptions (see Kirk Gibson’s 1988 homer or Pudge’s at Fenway in ’75), I don’t find the home run to be an exciting play. I’m not one of those people into that whole Elysian Fields shit who finds reliance and pitching, defense, etc. to be “more pure.” I just find it more fun to watch a taut 2-1 game than a 10-9 bashfest. That’s my opinion, nothing more. I’m sure I’m in a distinct minority.
And I know that way of playing is a less successful strategy, but I’m not talking about success, I’m talking about aesthetics, man! Of course, I am a Twins fan, so I don’t have much choice.

Funny, I don’t remember a special post after the Angels totally bitchslapped Schilling the other night

Yeah, I came here to see some venting or whatever and it was

*crickets*

on that subject.

it’s difficult to pitch with ESPN’s collective mouth wrapped around your cock

See: the Red Sux and the Skankees in general. I wonder if ESPN has ever thought “Wow, people west of Pennsylvania might not actually care about those two teams all that much, maybe we shouldn’t tongue bathe them every night”. Riiiiggghhhttt, like that’s going to happen.

Jay- baseball fans like NobodySpecial annoy the piss out of me. They’re the sports equivalent of Dana Carvey’s Grumpy Old Man- they think everything was better in the goode ole dayes when men used to shave their nipples when a splitery piece of wood… AND THEY LOVED IT!!!!

Hasn’t much to do with ‘purism’. Has entirely to do with playing the game. And playing the game includes fielding. The best hitters in the history of baseball had to do it. The most powerful hitters in the history of baseball had to do it.

Of course, there’s another argument to be made there – is he REALLY all that clutch? Sadly, Maybe Not! Maybe it’s just a rationalization made to cover the fact that if the Yankees didn’t exist…..the Red Sox would be them.

NS,

I played too, and I still don’t see how sticking Ortiz at first base makes him a better or more complete player — or worse one even. He’s better than Mo Vaughn, but not as good as Keith Hernandez. How is the game better served with him in the field? I mean, pinch hitters and pinch runners don’t always play the field either, but they have value and are legitimate baseball players.

And yes, clutch is a matter for the stats — and a matter of ‘who you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?’

Ortiz has had more game ending hits (rather than hits in clutch situations, as the article cited) of anyone over a four-year period since 1969. This year alone, he’s ended 3 games on home runs, something only Bonds has done. Sure, the numbers don’t lie. But they don’t show the whole truth either.

We could argue this until the Cubs win the World Series, but I suspect neither side will change the other’s mind. Big Papi is a great player, and I’d love to have him back in a Twins uniform. However I would say that someone like, say Roberto Clemente was a more complete player than someone like Papi or Reggie Jackson or Harmon Killebrew. If I could choose between a hitting machine like Teddy Ballgame and an all-around superstar like Willie Mays, I’m taking Mays. Arguably an inferior hitter, but better fielder and base runner.
But I’m glad to see, Jay B. that we agree on stats. One of the fascinations of baseball is the ridiculous array of stats, but the game’s still gotta be played.

And yes, Otto Man, my man-crush just got stronger.

Truly, this is a love that will echo through the ages.