Second!

I’d much rather talk about buttseks.

DA,

While I agree with some of what you say here, I have to ask what’s it gonna take before we start fighting back?

(shameless double blog whore, but it beats posting the entire pieces here, right?)

An addendum – I’m no economist but here are two gut-feeling reasons for why right now I’m for just letting the tax cuts expire and figuring it all out from there should no other deal be possible:

– I am damn well certain that the GOP is bought and paid for by the rich pricks that want more tax breaks. I’m equally convinced that the let-them-expire crowd isn’t. I’m not so sure about all of the compromisers.

– I know that the no-compromise people want to go to war with the GOP on tax reform, wealth disparity, the social safety net, stimulus and everything else. I’m not so sure about the compromise crowd — and that’s pretty crucial to me because the compromise itself hinges on their promise to fight and win the bigger war.

Needs MOAR HAWT GAY SEX.

Imma let you finish but Bernie Sanders is delivering the best comment on these tax cuts OF ALL TIME.

Is this whole post a VPR?

actor – I agree with your thoughts in those two posts. This post isn’t so much intended to fall on one side or the other on the compromise. It’s more to try to point out that those twin leftie pursuits of hippie-punching and sellout-punching are only useful insofar as they churn up new ideas (and let the best ones win!) and start being counter-productive when all we are left with is two hostile camps and everyone else in deep depression.

Is this whole post a VPR?

Um, no?

PS – anonymous above is me

Some people have been asking about what the point of Bernie Sanders’ filibuster is. Primarily it’s an attention device. If people thought that the tax cut extensions were going to just slip by without the majority of the American public noticing, well they’re probably still right. But at least some more people will know that Congress is doing their level best to keep the rich and wealthy rich and wealthy.

I’m not a Senate Rules expert on anything, but there is a possible actual reason for it too. The cloture vote for the bill is scheduled for a couple minutes from now, but if I understand things correctly, it’ll have to wait until Sanders yields the floor. And, as we all know, it needs 60 votes to pass. 60 Pro-Tax Cut Extension Senators are going to have to stay in chamber for as long as Sanders keeps them there. On Friday afternoon. Two weeks before Christmas.

Nicely done.

For their part, compromise proponents — at least the ones I’ve had exchanges with — really do believe that a battle for reforming taxes to our liking can be had with the GOP in the coming years, and won.

I would like some of what they are smoking, please.

Uhm… isn’t it kind of obvious that we are going to get tax reform: lower rates for the rich, no EITC for the poor?

TandU – yeah, well they say it’s a pipe dream that we’ll get UI bennies or stimulus or whatever passed when the GOP has the House. So it does kind of work both ways.

The cloture vote for the bill is scheduled for a couple minutes from now, but if I understand things correctly, it’ll have to wait until Sanders yields the floor.

This is exactly the process. Cloture votes, votes that close debate and move the bill to a vote, require 60 ayes.

Until 60 members can agree that Jimmy Stew– I mean, Bernie Sanders should shut up and let them proceed, the vote is suspended until he shuts up or the bill is withdrawn.

(actually, when Mr Smith was filmed, it was 75 votes needed)

This is why reconciliation was needed under Bush to pass the original tax cuts: no way they would have gotten 40 Democrats to sit on their hands about it. It’s also why Hillary felt safe in voting for the war, to advance her personal agenda, and not oppose the war. Her vote meant nothing, in actuality.

OK, I got distracted and continued another line of thought in my head that wasn’t in the post. Sorry.

It’s uber-shitty to hold those UI benefits hostage to letting tax cuts for the rich expire. Uber, uber, uber-shitty. But the last thing I want to see is the unemployed being thrown to the wolves—that’s too painful for the people who would lose. There is a really fat chance that a family would ever recover fully from a bout of homelessness after long-term unemployment. It’s just wicked to let them suffer.

I don’t care about the deficit right now, and am tired of hearing about it (and tired of hearing about the next election). Preventing catastrophe is more important than the balance sheet. There is no inflation, we can print the damned money, which is one of the benefits of a fiat currency.

I can’t find the sliver lining in Obama’s deal at all. In 13 months the UI extension goes away, but there’s nothing here to create jobs, at least not according to the way Democrats have been explaining economics. If the tax cuts create economic bounty, it’s a good reason to vote republican. If they don’t, it’s a good reason not to vote Democratic. The President himself said he’s basically signing onto an immoral deal because he’d decided to negotiate with terrorists. Fuck, that makes Carter’s sweater moment look like good politics in comparison.

Americas problems are income disparity, lack of corporate accountability, lack of direct intervention to create jobs and a balooning deficits. How does this deal do anything but set Obama up for worse “bargains” to come?

By all means, keep fighting, but recognize the guy behind you doesn’t have your back.

Hola, Tristamente, No!

¿qué hay de cena hoy?

menudo mierda

Negra Modelo

I may have gotten it wrong, a bunch of reports say that there are no votes scheduled until Monday.

Does anyone know if the Obama Tax Cut deal is in a bill yet? It’s S.3985 right? Because the cloture petition was filed Wednesday. Dammit, is there a Senate Rules d00d around?

Thanks to DA for the long article. Just going to comment on this (no doubt VS will have the same thing up by the time I’ve posted it, but what the hell),

For Obama and the compromise proponents, it means swallowing some crap today in the form of worse deficits, sharper wealth disparity and less-than-optimal stimulus while battling for major structural reform on the tax code in the years to come

Okay, I’ll accept your premise, but not the logic behind it. If ending the Bush tax cuts on the rich is so near-impossible now, then how the hell is he going to do major structural reform after January, with the House (the closest thing to a good governing body right now) in Republican hands and a couple more troublemakers in the Senate?

Even if he does win reelection in 2012, I think we can be pretty sure than he’ll never have a less unfavorable (double negative there for a reason) legislature to work with than he does now. And I think we can also take it for granted that Republican intransigence isn’t going to lessen.

I could be wrong; I’m too young to remember Clinton but evidently he got a tax increase through, so… maybe. How would Obama go about it, hypothetically?

By all means, keep fighting, but recognize the guy behind you doesn’t have your back.

That’s increasingly my take on it as well.

I may have gotten it wrong, a bunch of reports say that there are no votes scheduled until Monday.

No, you got it right, unless there’s some procedural crap on the floor.

So basically, Reid gave him a day to vent his frustration.

Hour 6 begins.

So basically, Reid gave him a day to vent his frustration.

If a bunch of Senators go home for the weekend right now, can someone move that the cloture vote be taken?

Because they all went home early.

I guess I better go put my serious pants on.

I could be wrong; I’m too young to remember Clinton but evidently he got a tax increase through, so… maybe. How would Obama go about it, hypothetically?

the 1993 Congress was the last of a forty year stretch where Democrats effectively controlled both houses of Congress (if memory serves, the GOP stole the Senate for a couple of years in there, but I’m fuzzy).

There were 57 Democrats in the Senate. So he did not have a filibuster proof majority

The Omnibus Bill passed the House 218-216 (Sanders was the deciding vote) and the final Senate vote was the famous “AL Gore breaks the deadlock” vote, 51-50.

This was also the time before the filibuster became a tool used as a first resort, which is why cloture was called. Too, I think the GOP wanted taxes raised so they could run against them

If a bunch of Senators go home for the weekend right now, can someone move that the cloture vote be taken?

Either a quorum call would occur, or they’d have to hold 60 yes votes in chamber, so no.

Live stream.

I guess I better go put my serious pants on.

I’m putting on my contemplative dickie.

The fact is, the operator says forty cents more for the next three minutes.

no doubt VS will have the same thing up by the time I’ve posted it, but what the hell

Silly, that’s only when things can be summed up in a smartassy sentence or two. I live the long, serious, substantive stuff to you.

Gary Ruppert Calling Sylvia Avery said

Sylvia’s mother said Sylvia’s marrying, so why don’t you leave her alone?

actor212 said,
December 10, 2010 at 22:03

So Clinton managed to raise taxes, but only in his first two years, e.g. before the Gingrich tsunami.

Guess that’s a blinking red light to Obama that his time’s running out.

I’m putting on my contemplative dickie.

I’ve got my ex-pensive thong on.

It hums!

So Clinton managed to raise taxes, but only in his first two years, e.g. before the Gingrich tsunami.

The Rostenkowskis and Wrights of the era didn’t help either.

Frankly, I’m impressed that Landrieu is joined in the filibuster.

By all means, keep fighting, but recognize the party behind you doesn’t have your back.

I fixed it a bit, but amen to the original sentiment.

Nope,nope,nope. What the Democratic elite in Washington doesn’t seem to get is that us “professional liberals” are catching on to the fact we were used as an ends to a means much the way Conservative Christians have been used each election by the GOP. “Vote for us then leave us alone”. Sorry, compromise with the GOP doesn’t work, will never work, because they simply won’t do it. Why should they? The Dems never seem to be serious about outing them as to what damage their obstruction does to the average citizen. The GOP knows they’ve got the Dems in Congress painted into an image corner, so why change now?
Interesting that the Dem in congress with the biggest balls is Nancy Pelosi
.
(actor,nice posts)

Thanks, snort.

Either a quorum call would occur, or they’d have to hold 60 yes votes in chamber, so no.

What if everyone except Bernie leaves? Someone has to ask for a quorom call for it to occur. If Sanders is the last Senator standing, couldn’t he unaninmously consent to whatever he wants?

From the looks of things, if someone asked for a quorum call on a point of order, the filibuster would be over. Because there sure as hell don’t look to be 51 Senators sitting in that chamber right now.

What the Democratic elite in Washington doesn’t seem to get is that us “professional liberals” are catching on to the fact we were used as an ends to a means much the way Conservative Christians have been used each election by the GOP

Yup. It took me a while, but one day I woke up and was like, “Holy fuck, I’ve been What’s the Matter with Kansassed?!” And it’s frustrating when people are dangling overturning of Roe v. Wade, or economic inequality, or the destruction of my queer friends’ rights over my head to get me to vote for Democrats when the poor and women and LGBT folks are the first people to be sacrificed in the name of “compromise.”

Concur with Snort. Great analogy between us and the social conservatives; there’s a guy on Balloon Juice who posted a lengthy paragraph about all our similarities, which I’ll reproduce here if I can find it when I get home.

And also concur on Pelosi. For as bad a rap as she gets, she hasn’t done a half-bad job given the circumstances.

If Sanders is the last Senator standing, couldn’t he unaninmously consent to whatever he wants?

God Almighty, don’t get my hopes up…

I think a filibuster is only in effect so long as there is a quorum, but don’t quote me on that. The sense I get is the rules are such that if quorum is not met, and then met again, the Senate has to pick up precisely where it left off and the filibuster would restart.

Because there sure as hell don’t look to be 51 Senators sitting in that chamber right now.

They’re in their offices or at the cafeteria. They’d be allowed time to be found and returned. It’s demanded in the rules.

(sigh) As an unemployed person whose ability to pay bills has suddenly been terminated I say yeah, ok, let the filthy rich keep their obscenely low tax rate for a while longer; there are other, better ways of eventually getting them to contribute more of a fair share than on my friggin’ back .

A year from now we’ll get to have a similar moment. There’s lots of ways to make this work – like pointing out ad naseum that they got theirs but what has that done for you and me?? etc etc; this whole coming year can be an extended teaching moment about fairness and honesty, actually.

Since when did Obama become our national father? There’s 536 people who govern us at that level; loading all of the responsibility on one guy smacks of rank Republicanism. I can imagine that this particular one guy is actually trying to wean us off that habit….

They’re in their offices or at the cafeteria. They’d be allowed time to be found and returned. It’s demanded in the rules.

If a quorom call fails in the US Senate then the only order of business that can be brought is adjournment. Note that the quorum call itself can’t be ended (except by adjournment) and missing Senators can return (or forcibly be returned) to the Chamber to be marked Present.

I call Shenanigans on the notion that there are a bunch of US Senators in their offices after 4PM on Friday.

Shorter Kevin Williamson

Sanders’s filibuster proves Democrats are the real racists.

And it’s frustrating when people are dangling overturning of Roe v. Wade, or economic inequality, or the destruction of my queer friends’ rights over my head to get me to vote for Democrats when the poor and women and LGBT folks are the first people to be sacrificed in the name of “compromise.”

Yes! Yes! Yes! What pisses me off the most is how Dem leadership allows it to reach the point of no return loaded with their compromises, so that when we stand up for helping of other Americans by saying “Hey wait a minute, what about….?” we are being the obstructionists.

Yes! Yes! Yes! What pisses me off the most is how Dem leadership allows it to reach the point of no return loaded with their compromises, so that when we stand up for helping of other Americans by saying “Hey wait a minute, what about….?” we are being the obstructionists.

Exactly. It starts to make me cranky.

From mark f’s link

Oh yeah: All but six Republicans in the Senate supported the Civil Rights Act, while about a third of Democrats — who held a large majority — voted against it, including the Klan recruiter who would remain the dean of Senate Democrats until his death in 2010.

Worth remembering.

Yes. Some Dixiecrats were racists. And now the vast majority of racists call themselves Republican and/or conservative. Your point is…?

I once ate a chicken sandwich. Some racists like chicken sandwiches. Therefore, I’m a racist.

vacuumslayer:

Williamson’s point is even hollower than that. If you look that vote by region, you’ll see that the only Northern Congressmen who opposed the Act were Republicans, and the few Southern Congressmen who supported it were Democrats. And as he mentions, Democrats held a large majority; it would literally be impossible for the act to pass or even come to a vote if the important Democrats had opposed it.

I once ate a chicken sandwich. Some racists like chicken sandwiches. Therefore, I’m a racist.

Your logic is unimpeachable!

If a quorom call fails in the US Senate then the only order of business that can be brought is adjournment.

Yes, but they never fail.

A quorum is always presumed, of course, even if it’s clear there aren’t 51 Senators there. Happens all the time, plus keep in mind that C-Span is bound by regulation to only broadcast the podium and/or pro-temp’s seat. There could be pockets of Senators standing around talking in the corners.

Yes. Some Dixiecrats were racists. And now the vast majority of racists call themselves Republican and/or conservative. Your point is…?

My favorite moment in any wingnut’s education is when I point out what liberals have done for America and they get all “No! No! Lincoln was a Republican!”

To which I point out….”Yea, liberal Republicans…I really miss those guys!”

A quorum is always presumed, of course, even if it’s clear there aren’t 51 Senators there.

Yes, but isn’t that just a courtesy the body grants to itself to keep normal business running smoothly? Couldn’t the majority leader force a real quorum count if he wanted to?

Couldn’t the majority leader force a real quorum count if he wanted to?

Any member can, actually. Point is, it’s called all the time, but never fails. Usually, it’s stopped by unanimous consent. It’s considered a mildly dilatory tactic, to give time to twist a few arms for votes.

Well, yes. Conservatives love to make the arguments that Democrats were such and such and Republicans were such and such, completely ignoring the fact that those parties have evolved so much over the course of history as to almost switch places on many issues.

Here’s a really handy guide on quorum.

You’ll note that quorum calls cannot be made during a filibuster (p. 5)

completely ignoring the fact that those parties have evolved so much over the course of history as to almost switch places on many issues.

Yup, like the fact that after the Civil War, much of the south, with it’s rawness over racial issues, voted Democrat was because the the party of their destructors was the Republican party.

Unity of purpose and vision for the future of America: Advantage, Repukes.
Unity of message and delivery apparatus: Huge advantage, Repukes.
Ability to manipulate the 70% (?) of the population that is functionally illiterate and too concerned with who wins Survivor rather than what his/her government is doing: Huge advantage, Repukes.

Again–things are going to have to get much worse before your average Joe “Five Pack” is going to figure out that it’s not the scary homos and mexicans that are eating his lunch. There is 100,000,000 strong army of collaborators occupying this nation.

But seriously, folks. My car smells like farts and I feel like I have bugs in my eyes.

Well, yes. Conservatives love to make the arguments that Democrats were such and such and Republicans were such and such, completely ignoring the fact that those parties have evolved so much over the course of history as to almost switch places on many issues.

Conservatives like to forget that no matter which party they like smear their armpit gravy all over, they were the Tories, the assholes who wouldn’t let go of slavery, the temperance society fuckwits, the people who blocked every suffrage and civil rights movement, etc. These are people who applaud violence against those with whom they disagree. They’re just fucking dumb, to be concise.

“Again–things are going to have to get much worse before your average Joe “Five Pack” is going to figure out that it’s not the scary homos and mexicans that are eating his lunch. There is 100,000,000 strong army of collaborators occupying this nation.

But seriously, folks. My car smells like farts and I feel like I have bugs in my eyes.”

I echo this. Except my car prolly smells like French fries and donuts.

“Conservatives like to forget that no matter which party they like smear their armpit gravy all over,”

I’m ashamed I found something this gross so funny.

Somebody really needs to get it through Obama’s head that being extra nice to the bigots doesn’t make them feel ashamed of their behavior.

Yup. It took me a while, but one day I woke up and was like, “Holy fuck, I’ve been What’s the Matter with Kansassed?!” And it’s frustrating when people are dangling overturning of Roe v. Wade, or economic inequality, or the destruction of my queer friends’ rights over my head to get me to vote for Democrats when the poor and women and LGBT folks are the first people to be sacrificed in the name of “compromise.”

Poor people are about to be sacrificed in the name of not compromising if a deal is not finalized. You can argue all you want about the long term strategic necessity of doing so but even most of the opponents of compromise in this case, like Aristophanes here, will admit that that’s what the immediate outcome will be because their principles demand it. Rich people are going to be just fine if this deal fails. Slightly less rich but still rich. Lots of poor people will be absolutely fucked. Millions of unemployed will lose their only income, people in the lowest tax bracket will have their income tax rate go from 10% to 15% which will be devastating for them, millions will lose their EITC etc. There’s also the undeniable if flawed stimulative effect of the deal that will help some number of people get jobs in the future. I wonder how many poor people are aware that there is a contingent of liberals on the internet and TV arguing that sacrificing all that is worth it for political reasons. I don’t think too many poor people would see those liberals as being at the top of their list of allies. I doubt dh up there could be convinced that they’ve got his/her best interests at heart but I’d love to see somebody try.

Dems should be pushing for a massive education package.

If this unemployment is truly ‘structural’ then we need re-training.

2% student loans, up to $100,000.

Dems should be pushing for a massive education package.

I keep pushing my massive package and keep ending up in jail. I’m not falling for that again, owlbear1. Nope.

TandU – yeah, well they say it’s a pipe dream that we’ll get UI bennies or stimulus or whatever passed when the GOP has the House. So it does kind of work both ways.

We will. Because when enough people experience the pain of the Republican agenda, they will be very, very angry. That the only thing that is going to turn this country around before it goes off the cliff.

Remember, we got a black president only because people were really, really angry and scared about what the Republicans had done. Two years later, all those people who elected him were dispirited by the total lack of fight, the total lack of advocacy, for the people in trouble compared to the enormous amount of money thrown to the richest americans (and foreigners), they stayed home. Some districts had less than a half of the democratic turnout from 2000.

Obama needs to have his feet held to the fire. Every single congressman and senator needs that. That is only going to happen when so many people are angry that a few crumbs tosssed their way doesn’t make them complacent.

I don’t care about “sticking it to the rich” for revenge or justice. It is necessary for a functioning economy for more money to be available to the people who spend it. The wealthy don’t spend it – they invest it, usually in whatever pog is the hot bubble of the moment, or on companies that offshore American jobs. The poor and the middle class are who create jobs, by demanding the goods and services they need to live, and to meet basic desires.

They have to fight now. They have drag the republicans kicking and screaming into reality. And by they, I mean we. We can not let them advance their philosophy any further. Putting a topical cream on a few of the knife wounds is not going to hold us over, especially when the compromise means the battle ttle will have to be refought during an election campaign in two years.

I keep pushing my massive package and keep ending up in jail.

Massive package pushing does take finesse and timing.

– Finally, we’re going to have to all come together again

fapfapfapfapfap-join in now y’all-fapfapfap

Holy shit, Obama walked out on Bill Clinton at a press conference!

Massive package pushing does take finesse and timing.

This stuff, I don’t haz them.

Massive package pushing does take finesse and timing.

This stuff, I don’t haz them.

*glancing down*

Not much of a package, either.

Not much of a package, either.

It’s not the size, it’s the degree of harrassment. You should know that, dude.

It’s not the size, it’s the degree of harrassment.

I’m, working on my felony merit badge

Holy shit, Obama walked out on Bill Clinton at a press conference!

Wow, I don’t have sound, but that looked…awkward…

I’d much rather talk about buttseks.

Oh my, I read this as “I’d much rather talk about budgets.”

Please, somebody, hold me.

It has just occured to me that if I were to lose my job, I could simply go to Mexico, become a citizen, illegally cross the border and automatically get welfare, free health care, a brand new car and probably a hand job from the nice person at the help desk at the border.

Plans. I gots em.

Poor people are about to be sacrificed in the name of not compromising if a deal is not finalized.

I wasn’t necessarily talking about this particular instance. I think we’re probably past the point of no return with regards to this compromise, so we should just go forward with it. It’s kind of how I felt about that hunk of shit we called a health care bill.

I simply think that the people who are hurt the most by the consequences that arise when Democrats are elected are also the first people whose interests are sacrificed when Democrats are making a deal. They seem to be more intent on making things run smoothly then they are on making sure that their constituents are served.

We will. Because when enough people experience the pain of the Republican agenda, they will be very, very angry. That the only thing that is going to turn this country around before it goes off the cliff.

Yeah, and maybe I’m naive, but I find it really hard to believe that Republicans would actually shut down UI. It would be politically idiotic. But I’ve been wrong before.

Please, somebody, hold me.

Oh my, I read this as “Please, somebody, hold legislation.”

Oh my, I read this as “I’d much rather talk about budgets.”

Hawt!!!

Poor people are about to be sacrificed in the name of not compromising if a deal is not finalized.

Poor people will be sacrificed no matter what. The R’s will get their tax cut, then in January they will be concerned about the deficit, and demand spending cuts. I assume they will take it straight out of UI just so we see how badly we got rolled, but either way, they will take the money from the poor. It is what they do. It is all they do.

This is a fucking nightmare.

Can someone please explain to me why the Dems weren’t like, “HEY, ERRYBODY! The Republicans want to give tax cuts to the richest of the rich people (you know, some of the same people who got us into this shit situation to begin with), but they’re refusing to extend unemployment benefits RIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS. Look at them! Douches! Call them on it!”

Am I missing something here?

Substance self-legislates.

Am I missing something here?

Yes. The Senators are themselves by and large rich. That, and they get to be Sensible People, unlike Bernie, who tilts at windmills.

“It has just occured to me that if I were to lose my job, I could simply go to Mexico, become a citizen, illegally cross the border and automatically get welfare, free health care, a brand new car and probably a hand job from the nice person at the help desk at the border.

Plans. I gots em.”

Oooooooh! Run away with me!

None of this is going to matter once the obviously fraudulent banking/finance industry implodes due to all the fraud. I cannot imagine anything resembling an upswing at least until a full-scale depression wipes out most of the fraud and whatnot.

“December 11, 2010 at 0:31

Substance self-legislates.”

Sometimes you have to when no one will legislate for you.

If you love someone, set them free. So I left, but god damn it there I was again.

Poor people will be sacrificed no matter what. The R’s will get their tax cut, then in January they will be concerned about the deficit, and demand spending cuts. I assume they will take it straight out of UI just so we see how badly we got rolled, but either way, they will take the money from the poor. It is what they do. It is all they do.

The poor will be under assault by Republicans in the future whether this bill passes or not. It’s a choice between locking in these benefits now that will last for 13 months in the case of UEI (and no, they can’t take away any UEI benefits until the 13 months is up it this passes) and 2 years in the case of the tax cuts and credits, or not locking them in. The Republicans are going to be looking at food stamps and other programs for the poor whether this bill passes or doesn’t. They’re not going to modify their tactics just because the deficit is smaller without this bill. There is no future benefit that the poor lose in trade for the benefits in this bill and it doesn’t increase their risk of attack so you’re arguing for sacrificing them now but getting no benefit for them in return.

Here’s a more detailed description of the tax credits and other benefits for the poor that will be extended by this bill. There should be more there and if liberals were really looking to hold Obama and the Democrats’ feet to the fire this is where they should have been looking so the deal could be improved for the poor. Instead the focus has been on screaming about the one issue that is an absolute deal breaker for the other side. The opportunity was there to leverage what they really wanted to get more of what we , like an extension of the Making Work Pay credit, but it’s probably been squandered now. That makes all the criticism of Obama’s negotiating skills and intelligence by the screamers pretty fucking rich.

I guess I don’t understand how digging ourselves in a $1 trillion financial hole sets the state for future reform. The only options moving forward will be slashing spending or raising taxes.

If Republicans can hold everyone hostage over not getting an extra tax cut for having over 250k AND also a super bonus estate tax cut, why would they EVER agree to raise their taxes?

We’re fucked. Two years of bush taxes will continue and solidify the banana republic level income and wealth disparities that 30 years of Republican bullshit have created; 13 months from now, the unemployed will be fucked because there’s nothing more to give up. Corporations are doing fine, using huge money piles to buy their own stock, to the benefit of the rentiers. The rich are doing fine and about to do better–per a graph at Benen’s place, a full third of the debt financed tax package goes to about 5% of the folks in this country. None of that money will create jobs, because neither the corporations nor the rich are benefitted by creating jobs. As everyone agrees, holding the unemployed (or some of them, anyway) hostage is as shitty as it gets. But I fear the deal will, not too far down the line, be much worse for them and a whole lot more people.

The notion that we’ll get something done in the next two years is a pipedream. Fucking Bachmann is getting national tv face time claiming that the package is a tax increase, and that tax decreases aren’t related to deficits. You don’t accomplish anything with bugfuck crazy partners.

and no, they can’t take away any UEI benefits until the 13 months is up if this passes

Don’t be so sure. What if R’s decide they want a 0% estate tax and tell Democrats they will prematurely revoke benefits unless they agree to vote for it? Wouldn’t that also be Democrats fault? Would they have any other choice?

Honestly, in a climate where letting temporary cuts expire as scheduled is raising taxes, how can we assume good faith?

There is no future benefit that the poor lose in trade for the benefits in this bill

Lawnguylander, I hope you’re right. I think program cuts–social welfare programs, of course–will be the target immediately; the payroll tax cut will get broadened to include the employer side, and then be the basis for more attacks on SS; 10% unemployment w/out significant benefits becomes the new normal. Would stopping the upper end tax cuts now prevent those fights? No. But somewhere the line has to be drawn, and I fear this package means the situation will be worse when it is drawn, and the chance of success will be worse.

That makes all the criticism of Obama’s negotiating skills and intelligence by the screamers pretty fucking rich.

Wait, the fact that Obama’s deal is a really bad one for the Dems is proof that Obama is actually a good negotiator?

I’d hold my nose and wave this forward if it wasn’t for the payroll tax holiday. The payroll tax holiday is completely unacceptable. Unfortunately, I suspect that’s not going to be where changes are made.

It’s amusing to read NRO, Red State, etc. and see our counterparts on the right shriek about how the RINO quislings in the Republican leadership have betrayed them. The Club for Growth said “naw, that’s not a good compromise, a better one would be one where unemployment insurance isn’t extended, the estate tax is abolished entirely, bread lines are set up with rat poison in the loaves,” &c.

I don’t think we’ve had this degree of political strife since the ’60s realignment. I wonder if the outcome is going to be similar.

Via Crooks and Liars, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/09/barney-frank-we-could-hav_n_794564.html

WASHINGTON — A senior House Democrat suggested Thursday that Congress could have reauthorized extended unemployment benefits even if President Obama hadn’t cut a deal with Republicans to attach 13 months of jobless aid to two years of tax cuts for the rich.

“It’s totally unbalanced. I think unemployment shouldn’t be considered a concession they give to us,” Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told HuffPost after Democrats symbolically rejected the tax deal. “I think we should have kept fighting them on it.”

A year from now we’ll get to have a similar moment. There’s lots of ways to make this work – like pointing out ad naseum that they got theirs but what has that done for you and me?? etc etc; this whole coming year can be an extended teaching moment about fairness and honesty, actually.

I would like to think that this would be true, but the Wingnut Wurlitzer will be grinding out a narrative that the shitty situation is all Obama’s fault, and that the country needs to go further to the right, and the fucktards will agree with them.

We will. Because when enough people experience the pain of the Republican agenda, they will be very, very angry. That the only thing that is going to turn this country around before it goes off the cliff.

Again, I really, really fear that the constant barrage of GOP talking points will have them convinced that it’s all the liberals’ fault.

Fuck, I just had a long conversation with a friend who told me that she had a conversation with an incredulous boss who didn’t believe her when she told him, “Some nights, I honestly have to ask myself if I can afford to eat pasta instead of peanut butter.” FUCK!

Thank you Bernie Sanders. That was pretty amazing.

Bernie speaks for me.

Obama and Clinton, not at all. Fuckers.
~

Obama and the Dems have lost me. I used to scoff at those who proclaimed there’s no real difference between the parties, but I am now there. There’s no real difference between the parties because the party lines isn’t where the important division is — it’s the corporatists vs the people. Obama and most of the Dems are corporatists, just as are the people on the the side of the isle.

Short of some kind of miraculous and genuine social movement, we are doomed.

That makes all the criticism of Obama’s negotiating skills and intelligence by the screamers pretty fucking rich.

How did we get here? Two years ago, Obama had enormous House and Senate majorities. He spent those two years appeasing tiny, discredited Republican minorities, and getting absolutely rolled by same.

We wouldn’t be having this debate if Obama hadn’t picked the Republicans up off the floor, dusted off their coats, and said, “oh look, you dropped these” as he handed them back their knives.
~

Again, I really, really fear that the constant barrage of GOP talking points will have them convinced that it’s all the liberals’ fault.

I fear that too, which is why we need leaders out there pushing an honest and realistic message instead of “This is the best we can do, Republicans are just too tough for us, be grateful for any scrap you get. We will fight hard for you next time.”

There should be more there and if liberals were really looking to hold Obama and the Democrats’ feet to the fire this is where they should have been looking so the deal could be improved for the poor. Instead the focus has been on screaming about the one issue that is an absolute deal breaker for the other side. The opportunity was there to leverage what they really wanted to get more of what we , like an extension of the Making Work Pay credit, but it’s probably been squandered now. That makes all the criticism of Obama’s negotiating skills and intelligence by the screamers pretty fucking rich.

Oh yes, its still the fault of the people trying to prevent injustice and economic meltdown, not those committing it. If we played nice, I just know we could have got a few more scraps to tide people over while the economy continues to worsen. If the president had included members of his own party in the negotiations, just maybe they would have been ready to do that. But this didn’t happen. Instead he undercut the people who were actually fighting to improve the economy for the poor and middle class, just as they were ramping up the pressure on the republicans. Obama did not make a single national speech to pressure the republicans before capitulating. Did not travel to a single waffler’s district.

There are no provisions in this bill that will make the economy better, short term or long term. The reality is that the poorest workers will actually see their taxes raised $400 a year, because the provisions that have been added are less than what has been taken away. 13 months of UI is great, except this plan guarantees that still more people will need it over the coming year, representing an enormous loss of middle and lower class wealth, and still more will lose UI at the end of that time.

The republicans are going to use the worsening deficit caused by this surrender to call for even more cuts to the social safety net when the vote on the debt ceiling comes. Obama has not yet shown he has a spine – his greatest victory was passing a republican health care plan from the 90’s that funnels tax dollars into insurance companies, once again undercutting his own party and the American people because trying to fight a real political battle is just too hard.

How did we get here? Two years ago, Obama had enormous House and Senate majorities. He spent those two years appeasing tiny, discredited Republican minorities, and getting absolutely rolled by same.

That’s the thing- this year should have been the final mopping-up of the whipped GOP dogs, the “throw the bums out” mentality should have been aimed at Boner, Cantor et al..

We wouldn’t be having this debate if Obama hadn’t picked the Republicans up off the floor, dusted off their coats, and said, “oh look, you dropped these” as he handed them back their knives.

Yeah, if he’d delivered Bush and Cheney to the Hague in irons, it would’ve been a good start.

But somewhere the line has to be drawn, and I fear this package means the situation will be worse when it is drawn, and the chance of success will be worse.

In your previous comment you described the bugfuck craziness and dishonesty of the Republicans. You’re right and if they’re going to try to do all that stuff that you described, they’re going to do it whether this bill passes or not so I say take what we can now rather than hoping that somehow they’ll be less mean in the future based on a different set of circumstances. They won’t be.

Wait, the fact that Obama’s deal is a really bad one for the Dems is proof that Obama is actually a good negotiator?

I didn’t say anything about Obama’s negotiating skills. I’m making fun of those who were trashing his skills while focused on trying to shoot down the one must have that the other side had rather than trying to get more of what we wanted in return for giving it to them. And if it wasn’t possible to keep every Dem senator in line and get 2 Republican votes it was going to be necessary to give them their rich people’s tax cuts. I don’t know if Obama could have gotten more but based on what he did get he at least understood this. Imagine if there had been a big push by liberals in and outside Congress to get Obama and the Republicans to agree to a vote on DADT in return for supporting the deal. I think that would have had a chance of succeeding and then we could have credibly said, “stupid Obama, why didnt you get that yourself?” But people like Kos are too stupid for such an effort and the House and Senate Dems were too cowardly to even try. They’re letting Obama take the heat by himself and instead of getting called on their cowardice people are falling for it.

Okay, now back to the topic. I’ve said the Obama Tax Deal is shit. There’s no sandwich to it at all.

But look at all the goodies he managed to extract for teh Left! Middle class tax cuts and extensions for the 99ers! Bullshit. The GOP used the cowardly pansy-ass “procedural” filibuster on those before because they wanted a higher cap on the estate tax exemption BUT they had no intention of allowing those things to die. There isn’t a single elected member of either party that wants the middle class tax cuts to expire. As for the UI extensions – a lot of that money is heading for the deep South. If Teatard Prime Rand Paul has already sold out on earmarks before even being seated, what are the odds of that McConnell would turn down free money? Check out this quote from Subby’s link:

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said Wednesday that Republicans would have allowed a short reauthorization even without the tax cut deal.

Well, no d’uh.

There’s some stimulus extenders in the package – some I might point out as a result of the House Dem resolution not to bring the first package to the floor. And the payroll tax cut is well targeted – if unfortunately horribly bad for Social Security.

So pretty much – just shit.

It is much like the Health Care debate. People still sore at the loss of the Public Option, but apparently it was still a good deal because of all the new regulations placed upon the insurance industry. Well, I had a hard time believing that even for dirtbag assholes like Republican lawmakers – banning insurance recission or discrimination for pre-existing conditions was much of a concession.

Yeah, those fuckers in the GOP are evil and stupid, but the big concessions they’ve made? They would have made them anyways, They weren’t concessions. Obama threw them right into the briar patch, he did.

Also from that Huffington Post article:

“I don’t know what the end would have been but I don’t think we tried hard enough to make it clear that they were the ones obstructing,” he said. “I think we should have had that debate for a couple weeks.”

Barney is full of shit. He knows what would have happened because he knows what happened last time. The Democrats agreed to the Republicans’ condition that the extension of UEI be paid for by cuts to food stamps and they were similarly looking for cuts from other anti-poverty programs this time. After a couple of weeks of debate and what damage did that do to the Republicans? This time around his and other Democrats’ hands are clean because Obama included the UEI extension in his deal so he’s free to talk tough.

*peeks inside *

Juses! Still all serious and shit. Fine, there other places on the Intertr0nz to find POOP and buttseks I’ll have you know. All I have to do is go without DKW’s mom for a while.

And let me remind everyone for the third time – Obama is now fighting for Joe the Plumber’s tax cut. When this sorry-ass piece of shit deal goes through, some media darling is going to play that first fateful meeting of Barry and Joe and then point out that Joe won, and the Wurzelbachter will come out and be all “modest” for his interview. Rinse and repeat for every news program in the million channel universe.

All I have to do is go without DKW’s mom for a while.

Is it really worth it?
~

“*peeks inside *

Juses! Still all serious and shit.”

Hey, I’m disappointed too. But be comforted by the fact that at least *I* still have the maturity of a 12-year-old.

How did we get here? Two years ago, Obama had enormous House and Senate majorities. He spent those two years appeasing tiny, discredited Republican minorities, and getting absolutely rolled by same.

No, he spent his time appeasing blue dog senators and congressmen that constitute enormous House and Senate majorities only for the purposes of caucusing. Do you think that Lieberman, Nelson, Baucus, Landrieu, Lincoln, etc were part of a huge majority that Obama had at his disposal and could be relied upon for votes?

And that was a pretty amazing performance for Bernie Sanders today. It would have been great if he had given that same speech prior to the election or maybe even last week. Why did he wait until now?

Do not.
~

I know…I was being generous.

Hey, I’ve been wrong about stuff before so I very well could be wrong again, but I am having great difficulty in believing that no deal would have been made for the 99ers outside of this tax cut bullshit. Unemployment has been playing footsie with 10% for those 99 weeks. I think even the fucking sadistic idiots with the R’s after their names recognize how many people this is hitting. Or at least some folks on their staffs do.

I’m just not going to accept that the only way to get the these two things, both of which will massively benefit GOP lawmakers, without a fucking 5 million dollar estate tax exemption. That is ludicrous.

Much apologetics is my egrishnesses not too plus goodly rite now.

As for the UI extensions – a lot of that money is heading for the deep South. If Teatard Prime Rand Paul has already sold out on earmarks before even being seated, what are the odds of that McConnell would turn down free money?

Google “unemployment map” because your assumptions are way off. And no matter where it’s going, that money is going to the wrong kind of people. Black people and other members of the Democratic base. Are you not aware that Republicans, especially in the South, vote down legislation that would benefit their poorer citizens all the fucking time? And Republican governors in New Jersey, Ohio and Wisconsin just recently turned away evil socialist stimulus package money in the hundreds of millions for transportation projects. You’re so eager to criticize Obama that you’re willing to give the Republicans way too much credit.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said Wednesday that Republicans would have allowed a short reauthorization even without the tax cut deal.

Trolled by Chuck Grassley? Yes, they would have agreed to an extension but with the food stamps cuts or something similar and for 3 months or so instead of 13. And they still would have insisted on the rich people’s tax cuts in return for the middle class and poor people’s tax cuts.

Here’s what the crew listens to sometimes on Friday night when we’re cleaning up. It’s the classic Magic Sam -playing- Earl Hooker’s- guitar version of

All of Your Love.

To hear Obama tell it,you might of thought he was under this level of pressure:

“In 1918 things did not reach a split. At that time the “Left” Communists formed only a separate group or “faction” within our Party, and that not for long. In the same year, 1918, the most prominent representatives of “Left Communism”, for example, Comrades Radek and Bukharin, openly acknowledged their error. It had seemed to them that the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was a compromise with the imperialists, which was inexcusable on principle and harmful to the party of the revolutionary proletariat. It was indeed a compromise with the imperialists, but it was a compromise which, under the circumstances, had to be made…”

…Imagine that your car is held up by armed bandits. You hand them over your money, passport, revolver and car. In return you are rid of the pleasant company of the bandits. That is unquestionably a compromise. “Do ut des” (I “give” you money, fire-arms and a car “so that you give” me the opportunity to get away from you with a whole skin). It would, however, be difficult to find a sane man who would declare such a compromise to be “inadmissible on principle”, or who would call the compromiser an accomplice of the bandits (even though the bandits might use the car and the firearms for further robberies). Our compromise with the bandits of German imperialism was just that kind of compromise.”– Lenin

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch04.htm

No, he spent his time appeasing blue dog senators and congressmen that constitute enormous House and Senate majorities only for the purposes of caucusing.

He is one of them. The excuse that Obama would have done all these amazing things if not for those darned blue dogs collapses when you consider this fact. He is a DLC corporatist.

He chose to have financial arsonist Bob Rubin’s boys as his economic advisers.

He chose to have an Interior Department that employees would describe as a a third Bush term.

His chief of staff was busy recruiting those blue dogs back in 2006, while shafting liberal candidates who had a chance.

When HCR passed with a very unpopular public mandate, but no (very popular) public option, it wasn’t because of the mean Blue Dog Senators. It was because Obama dealt it away secretly, early in the process, in exchange for insurance company support. Of course, he got rolled on that deal, too. Obama can’t blame the likes of Blanche Lincoln when she can only get past her primary with his help.

Defend Obama’s national security policies, if you like? I find them repulsive. He’s taken ownership of Bush’s failures.

Ditto for Bush’s Justice Department.

And then we have the Bowles-Simpson Commission. They’ve put cutting Social Security on the table, and this crap deal Obama is pushing with its payroll tax holiday is going help light that fire. Explain why cutting Social Security is 1) a good thing, and 2) going to help the Democratic Party?

I voted for the guy in the primary, and the general. I think I even donated $50 to his campaign. But he’s not only compromised on every damn thing I believe in, he’s fucked the party to hell.

I will not vote for Obama again.
~

Google “unemployment map” because your assumptions are way off.

Uh, well sure California got hit hard, but the entirty of the Southeast 9% plus. Yeah, flyover heartland is doing okay – hooray for the Dakotas – but that’s it.

But you do have a point about people acting against their own interests in order to deprive some hated group of any little thing. And you also have a point about getting trolled by Grassley. Man, I should change my name to Baucus.

On the balance though, I still think getting the UI extension was possible though.

I guess now is not the best time to link to that vibrator I want…

But, seriously, this thread is giving me that hopeless feeling i sometimes get. I wish we had a brighter, more engaged electorate. *sigh*

Oh yes, its still the fault of the people trying to prevent injustice and economic meltdown, not those committing it. If we played nice, I just know we could have got a few more scraps to tide people over while the economy continues to worsen. If the president had included members of his own party in the negotiations, just maybe they would have been ready to do that. But this didn’t happen. Instead he undercut the people who were actually fighting to improve the economy for the poor and middle class, just as they were ramping up the pressure on the republicans. Obama did not make a single national speech to pressure the republicans before capitulating. Did not travel to a single waffler’s district.

Obama spent months prior to the election traveling the country arguing that the upper income tax cuts should expire while the middle and lower income tax cuts should be extended. 60% of the public agreed. But the congressional Democrats decided not to hold a vote because there were some Senators like Barbara Boxer and Patty Murray who were afraind that a vote would hurt their re-election chances. Just because you’re not aware of these things doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. And yeah, sure, they were this close to a deal of their own before mean old Obama stepped in and stopped them. Just like they were this close on DADT, DREAM and the 9/11 bill. You’ve got way too much faith in these people.

There are no provisions in this bill that will make the economy better, short term or long term. The reality is that the poorest workers will actually see their taxes raised $400 a year, because the provisions that have been added are less than what has been taken away. 13 months of UI is great, except this plan guarantees that still more people will need it over the coming year, representing an enormous loss of middle and lower class wealth, and still more will lose UI at the end of that time.

What effect do you think removing hundreds of billions of dollars from the economy over the next few years would have on employment. Nearly every dollar of UEI, the tax cuts and tax credits for the poor will be spent. So will a decent portion of the middle class tax cuts and the payroll tax holiday. What happens if that money is not out there? As for the $400, you’re talking about the Making Work Pay credit I assume. It is a shame that it’s not part of the deal and maybe Pelosi and progressive caucus could still get it reinstated as a condition of supporting the deal. But it’s dwarfed by the EITC, the CTC which come to thousands for millions of the same people and a tax rate of 10% suddenly going up to 15%. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Well I went to put my serious pants on but got distracted by all those oysters to shuck, and listening to Bernie. 8 1/2 hours! You’d think someone would step up to the plate and give him a little support. Sheldon Whitehouse I’m looking at you. Or whatever his name is that took Biden’s seat.

On the good side the fried oysters were the best ever. Appalachicola, mmmm.

What is wrong with you liberals as of late? First national healthcare and now amnesty for the children of illegal aliens. What, you guys didn’t get enough of an ass kicking during the mid-term elections? Apparently the Democrats are looking for no less than political obscurity it seems, what with their pushing of the so-called “Dream Act” on an unwilling American citizenry.

You libs go on ahead and keep trying to shove this leftwing, multicultural bullshit down our throats. In so doing you are cutting your own throats. Prepare for another massacre come 2012.

There’s nothing worse than someone handing you a shit sandwich and calling you sanctimonious (Obama) while he forces you to eat it.

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

December 11, 2010 at 3:01 (kill)

I’m not going to comment on everything in there because some of it I agree with you on and some I’m just not sure.

He is one of them. The excuse that Obama would have done all these amazing things if not for those darned blue dogs collapses when you consider this fact. He is a DLC corporatist.

I don’t accept your premise in the first place. I think he has had some accomplishments that were fairly amazing. You’ve got a job with health insurance, right? Millions of other don’t but have a chance to now or in the not so distant future and if you were in the same boat you’d probably feel very differently. I’m self employed and was able to buy a pre-existing condition plan for ~$500 when I could not get any insurance before. Once the exchanges are in place it will get much cheaper for me. Many elements of the stimulus act were also very progressive such as the green energy investments and the expanded tax credits for the working poor whose numbers have been growing. The last of those has been just about ignored by liberal pundits on TV and blogs but those are the kinds of credits Republicans have been trying to kill for years and Obama expanded them.

When HCR passed with a very unpopular public mandate, but no (very popular) public option, it wasn’t because of the mean Blue Dog Senators. It was because Obama dealt it away secretly, early in the process, in exchange for insurance company support. Of course, he got rolled on that deal, too. Obama can’t blame the likes of Blanche Lincoln when she can only get past her primary with his help.

You’re talking about the quote from Tom Daschle who wasn’t involved in the negotiations? I know of that story but I don’t buy that Obama bargained away something he had no power to bargain away. You’d have to buy into a conspiracy theory that has Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and a host of other Democratic congress people pretending to push for the public option and suffering politically for their failure to get it and for the long drawn out process. What makes more sense is him agreeing not to push too far from his end in return for their support and since I think the public option was not that big of a deal compared to passing the rest of the bill I just don’t care that much if it’s true.

And then we have the Bowles-Simpson Commission. They’ve put cutting Social Security on the table, and this crap deal Obama is pushing with its payroll tax holiday is going help light that fire. Explain why cutting Social Security is 1) a good thing, and 2) going to help the Democratic Party?

I don’t think they are going to cut Social Security because of 2) so I’m less worried about cuts than its future solvency.

We “need” to “come together” again?

No, we don’t. It’s a little late for “coming together”. The failure of this compromise might actually be more important that 13 months of checks for .5 percent of us.

I’m concerned about the unemployed, but maybe we have to suck it up and help them ourselves. Hell, I’ll take an unemployed family in at my house.

Oh wait: I’ve already got one.

It might be time to actually think about what’s happening over in Europe as a possibility. Disruption might be the best medicine for this sick system. Standing over the dying patient and discussing long-term treatment is getting us nowhere.

vacuumslayer said,

I guess now is not the best time to link to that vibrator I want…

If you don’t put it on Santa’s list, he won’t know to bring it to ya.
~

So, I’m building an off-the-grid compound in a remote area that’s likely to still be livable when climate change becomes more severe. Y’all are welcome to come. It’s hard work, but it’s honest. And a good place to hole up to escape the zombie hordes.

It’s hard work, but it’s honest. And a good place to hole up to escape the zombie hordes.

Expect an aggrieved ZRM to accuse you of breatherism.
~

Expect an aggrieved ZRM to accuse you of breatherism.

He can come, too, as long as he promises not to be all bitey and shit.

Also, The Suburbs is an AWESOME album to listen to while reading this conversation. Makes me all warm and fuzzy and hopeful and shit.

ITTDGY, about that link to the Interior dept. story, the powers that be see the writing on the wall regarding peak oil, so it doesn’t matter who is in office they will try to get every last drop they can before the shit hits the fan.

T&U – The Suburbs? I remember seeing them back in the day in Duluth a few times. Hell of a band.

“¿qué hay de cena hoy?

Negra Modelo”

Babel Fish say:

“what has today of dinner?
slight excrement chicken with poop
Me cago flan in it Black Model”

Glad I missed dinner, does anyone have anything left to drink?

You’re so eager to criticize Obama that you’re willing to give the Republicans way too much credit.

Lawnguylander – I agree with a lot of what you have to say but I think you are actually giving Republicans too little credit. Hear me out.

We’ve all been witness to what giant pricks Repubs are, it’s true. But let’s say the compromise fails (it’s probably not gonna, but let’s say it does). Boehner is going to need to get SOME SHIT done with his great big new teabagger mandate. I’m well aware that the GOP doesn’t have the same urgency as Democrats to ‘get things done’, just fundamentally. But they also can’t afford to be seen getting NOTHING done now that they run the House.

And one of those things could be tax cuts, if the compromise fails. If not that, then something else. And then WE will be the ones in the position to hold stuff hostage. And to try to get good deals on stuff like UI extensions and the EITC.

As somebody over at Balloon Juice said the other day, these guys aren’t Jedi – they’re politicians. And I think we also just kind of lazily like to assume that they’re completely irrational and just want total chaos or something. But they want real stuff too — quite obviously, given what they’ve been willing to do to get the rich people tax cuts. And what they’ve been willing to swallow in exchange.

Look, they fucked up our agenda – not totally – but still fucked it up pretty bad over the last two years, and all they had was:

1. The arcane rules of the Senate
2. The ability to march in lockstop
3. The Blue Dogs
4. A media that treats their bullshit with undue respect

That turned out to be not a terribly bad line of defense, but it pales in comparison to what we’ll have for the next two years:

1. A majority in the Senate
2. The arcane rules of the Senate
3. The veto pen
4. A media that at least gives us some facetime on a regular basis
5. Their own crazy teatard faction undermining them in unpredictable ways

I’m not trying to dispute your argument that killing the compromise won’t have major negative outcomes for poor and working people. I am saying, though, that I see a lot more wiggle room than you seem to see for using the hefty amount of leverage we will still retain come January to work out other compromises, maybe even way better ones.

But I also get that what I am proposing is highly risky for Americans we care a lot about. You are proposing a way-less-than-optimal but sure thing solution to problems like UI – and I respect that.

T&U – The Suburbs? I remember seeing them back in the day in Duluth a few times. Hell of a band.

They were! But I was actually talking about the new(ish) Arcade Fire album.

It’s an excellent album. I do not care if this shoots my indie cred to shit.

Holy shit, Obama walked out on Bill Clinton at a press conference!

‹ LOL PWNT ›

Bernie Sanders 2012: Party? We Don’t Need No Steenkin’ PARTY!

the powers that be see the writing on the wall regarding peak oil

Yeah, having “60-100 years of oil left” is quite a misleading meme: you don’t have to think it through too hard to know that shit gets much too real for comfort a looooooong time before oil reserves could ever truly dry out.

I’m going to take a wild shot in the dark & say that Peak Vital Industrial Minerals is probably going to bite us a new one well before oil does.

Jim: Exactly. it’s not that we are running out of oil, we are running out of cheap oil.

Face the facts libs, the Democrats are finished. They just cut their own throats with the pushing of this latest amnesty bill.

It’s over for the left. Obama will soon be a lame duck President, and shall go down in history as a one term loser and maligned as the anti-American usurper that he is.

http://www.theoildrum.com/

Look, they fucked up our agenda – not totally – but still fucked it up pretty bad over the last two years, and all they had was:

1. The arcane rules of the Senate
2. The ability to march in lockstop
3. The Blue Dogs
4. A media that treats their bullshit with undue respect

5. Serious metric fucktons of money & juice

It’s an excellent album. I do not care if this shoots my indie cred to shit.

There are bands I can’t stand & I have no problems with saying they make incredible, excellent albums.
MUSIC: NOT A SPORTS LEAGUE.

jim – yeah, that too

Kevin Dyson comes to mind. When it’s over, it’s over:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/07/05/gal_mcnair-5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/galleries/steve_mcnairs_life_in_photos/steve_mcnairs_life_in_photos.html&usg=__841lB7n9_mZueI_i9nJMpo4ge5c=&h=347&w=575&sz=62&hl=en&start=96&sig2=ju8oGCVy-LmlyQ5wSLNs0w&zoom=1&tbnid=X74b-GCln0K6oM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=190&ei=z_8CTbGtM9WUnQfjmaDlDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkevin%2Bdyson,%2Btennessee%2Btitans,%2Bsuper%2Bbowl%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1199%26bih%3D560%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C2368&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=585&oei=wP8CTdnOIZKinQfqlfTnDQ&esq=7&page=6&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:96&tx=129&ty=33&biw=1199&bih=560

Or, even better (in memory of the late, great Dandy Don):
“Turn out the lights, the party’s over.”

Warning: ON TOPIC

Driftglass & Blue Gal make a valid point: when Obama deals with Somali hostage-takers he uses using hollowpoints to negotiate, but if with Republicans he uses the “Permanent Xmas” approach. That sort of optics-schizophrenia is systematically eroding Democratic Party support.

if with from as for to or I CAN HAZ EDIT BUTTON PLZ ?

On the good side the fried oysters were the best ever. Appalachicola, mmmm.

When I see BP corporate exec’s eating Appalachicola oysters, then I’ll try some. Until then, it’s PEI for me.

Of course, I tend to think that cooking oysters is the moral equivalent of ordering well done prime rib.

Actually, now that I think about it, what I meant to say was:

Please God someone tell me Appalachicola oysters are ok to eat before I go broke.

Jim: Exactly. it’s not that we are running out of oil, we are running out of cheap oil.

This was actually an area of expertise of mine for a while. I was a technical writer for a company that did training programs for oil companies until I quit to start my own gig.

Let’s just say there is a shit-ton of heavy crude in the ground in Canada.

But you’re not going to like what it costs to get it out of the ground.

Protip: Invest in Suncor.

There are bands I can’t stand & I have no problems with saying they make incredible, excellent albums.
MUSIC: NOT A SPORTS LEAGUE.

I’ve always liked them, but they were indie darlings who went famous. Which makes the indie rockers all pissy.

Let’s just say there is a shit-ton of heavy crude in the ground in Canada.

But you’re not going to like what it costs to get it out of the ground.

Oil sands?

Yeah, we’re fucked, kiddos. Best to get off the grid and growing as much of your own food as possible now. Oh, and befriend your local farmer!

And by “off the grid,” I mean off the electricity grid, not, you know, crazy survivalist off the grid.

So, I’m building an off-the-grid compound in a remote area that’s likely to still be livable when climate change becomes more severe. Y’all are welcome to come. It’s hard work, but it’s honest. And a good place to hole up to escape the zombie hordes.

So aroused right now.

Oil sands?

Yup.

Speaking of survivalism, I’m seriously thinking: if I ever have an income again, I want to buy one of those $20k farms in Maine with a house and a dozen acres. Almost no taxes, almost no services. But the way things are going, it’s not going to be an issue of services — it’s going to be an issue of canning enough food in the summer to get through the winter.

I mean, seeing as we’re having one of those especially fun threads, and all.

The excuse that Obama would have done all these amazing things if not for those darned blue dogs collapses when you consider this fact. He is a DLC corporatist.

Bingo. All all stages he has towed the neoliberal line – make business successful and they will take care of workers. Why they think that after two decades of abject failure is beyond me.

Well, I guess it’s not. Things did get better with Clinton, and if the new wealth was disproportionate, at least there was some new wealth for the non-wealthy. Higher taxes were balancing the budgets (almost), and the programs to help people change jobs worked fairly well (though too many jobs were shipped overseas).

These aren’t the 90’s though, and Bush II did a lot more damage than Bush I. There are no jobs to retrain people for. There is no new wealth, just corporations sucking the last of the wealth from the lower classes. Whereas Clintons wars were short and defined, Obama has continued and accelerated his wars, sucking a ton of money away from projects that would improve american lives. And then there were Bush II’s tax cuts for the wealthy, which turned off a huge and necessary money pump.

Obama’s health care package will get compromised away before most of the provisions even become active. The republicans know he will back down as long as they “take hostages”, and the people who will suffer will be the ones who don’t vote anyway. That was the most amazingly chickenshit aspect of the whole fiasco; even after giving the insurance companies free hand jobs, he still couldn’t put it into motion in his first term.

it’s going to be an issue of canning enough food in the summer to get through the winter.

And land mines. Can a lot of food and your gonna need land mines.

Also, what’s the shelf life of ammunition? Cause I’m thinking I might be able to do a brisk business selling it to the lazy fucks who forgot to stock up on canned goods.

Look: Obama is not on our side. He’s shown that. The only real achievements — I mean in which something measurable has improved, not including the ones that are called something good, but don’t help — that he’s championed are the minimum mechanisms necessary to keep the middle class from imploding faster than the system can handle.

For example, Obama’s added a few very modest safety valves onto the health care system, but only as much as necessary to avert a revolution. And that’s what’s happening again, now. He’s brokered a deal (with Republicans only, not his own people) with barely enough window-dressing on it to keep the general public from flipping out, and the whole deal was struck on completely Republican terms.

What Obama didn’t expect was this mutiny from the Hill. I don’t think the Dems are just posturing. They know what Obama’s going to do when the time comes for renewing the fight: he’ll capitulate immediately. Why? Because he’s a manager, not a leader. He wants to get everybody sorted out, make sure the seat belts are fastened and the tray tables are securely stowed in the up and locked position. He’s not really interested in being the pilot.

So the dems are making a real show of strength, all of a sudden. And tragically, it’s in-fighting between the Democratic Executive and Legislative branches. The Republicans must just be standing there saying, “holy shit, I cannot believe our luck.” I mean really. They must just go home and shake their heads and laugh.

Dildo Milbank doesn’t agree with my assessment.
Shorter: “I’m fucking psyched Obammy just took a giant, corn-studded shit on those oppressive liberals that have been shoving things down our throats all these years.”

So aroused right now.

Heh. Normally when I talk about making beef jerky, composting toilets, and why chainsaws make terrible weapons against zombies, people back away…

Also, what’s the shelf life of ammunition?

If it’s stored properly, pretty much indefinitely

Oh, and STOCK UP ON CHOCOLATE.

Also, dude, I ordered your book. There better be no chainsaws in it.

You realize you’re currently the 4,000th best selling book on Amazon?

And that’s not faint praise, either. When I sell used books on Amazon, a sales ranking of 4,000 usually means its flying off the shelves.

TU, no chainsaws. The best tool (in real life) for felling zombies is a four-pound splitting maul. Chainsaws are heavy, the blades tend to scrape more than they penetrate, and if they do penetrate, skin tends to make the chain bind up, and then the saw jumps out of your hands. In addition, the broad guide bar will tend to twist when the zombie it’s stuck in falls down, which also pulls it out of your hands.

I studied this stuff. I talked to the experts.

…And thanks for supporting the arts, TU.

Lurker, the book is going into a new printing, so mission accomplished — it stayed out of the remainder bins.

it stayed out of the remainder bins

Your selling yourself short here.

OMG!

I just read the David Brooks column about cluster liberals and network liberals. It is dumb, Dumb, DUMB, even for Brooks.

WHY HASN’T SADLY, NO RIDICULED THIS YET!

Canned goods will go bad on the shelf many, many years before ammunition will turn good. So, stock up heavily on the freshly boxed bads.

All of this is dumb and not funny.

What the fuck have you all sanctimonious douchebags done for the world lately? Besides make stupid repetitive “jokes” and talk about your tits?

Oh well, I guess you have your purity. It doesn’t help anybody else, not like actually doing shit in the world, but at least you get to feel good about hating your government once again. That’s way more precious than shit that actually helps people but involves real-world compromise.

Hey, I’m sure the unemployed all appreciate your snark and let-them-eat-gluten-free-cake self-righteousness, so why not get back to that? You all suck at the sincere shit. Precious snark. So much tastier than the food they could buy with actual unemployment benefits and shit like that. Who cares what happens to the poor, just as long as Exhibitionistic & Fatuous, douchebag212 et al. get to feel good about themselves?

Sure, all this self-righteous circle-jerking requires completely forgetting what the years 2002-2007 were like, what huge fucking pussies Democrats in Congress have been since at least the 1970’s, completely ignoring what a Clinton 2.0 or McCain presidency quite obviously would’ve been like, blowing up a tax non-increase for the rich as the greatest sin ever committed against mankind, etc etc. But whatever. Facts are for people who don’t have ideology, right?

You sad fucks just want your hating the government card back. Well, enjoy it, Sadlybaggers. Way more important that you have your indie cred than some kids don’t starve to death.

Shorter Physical Educator Nick SABAN:

“Any price is worth paying for an incremental improvement in government benefits for the poor, even if the price makes a lot more poor people. Any people who won’t recognize this are sanctimonious douchebag poseurs who really just hate people.”

Did I get all of that, Nick? Or was that you GBCW post?

Wait, so is Physical Educator Nick SABAN the same guy as Urban Meyer the Cool Coach? The ding-dong-dilly loony libs guy? But now he’s breaking the fourth wall or something?

Physical Educator Nick SABAN understands how things work!
Physical Educator Nick SABAN talks tough to the Hollywood Liberals on SN! who he knows for sure have never had a financial worry in their lives and certainly don’t have one now!
Physical Educator Nick SABAN understands that getting your nads rubbed off with sandpaper is better than getting your nads rubbed off with sandpaper and vinegar poured on it! So drop those panties weaklings!
Physical Educator Nick SABAN actually thinks David Brooks has some damn sensible things to say! And that Jonah Goldberg! Liberal Fascism – what a wag!
Physical Educator Nick SABAN likes to look in the mirror and imagine all the sensible commentators nodding in agreement to his speech, impressed by his youthful brio and willingness to take action as a man must if he is to be a man!

There you go PENS – purity trolling: any fuckwit can do it. I certainly don’t have to know a thing about who you are and I certainly don’t need to understand what you are saying.
So just stop it.

I once ate a chicken sandwich. Some racists like chicken sandwiches. Therefore, I’m a racist.

Haha! ‘Cause racism is just a bunch of pretend milarky, amirite? I know this, cause the guys on Redstate and Rush Limbaugh’s website told me so! You should go talk to them, they have lots of snarky, glib non sequiturs you could use on the subject, just like what you did there, but even more betterer!

So ridiculous! LOL!

So, what’s left out of Hitchen’s VF piece? Hitchens, I’d say. He’s got his panties in a clump over the tea party. Goodness, it turns out that they aren’t all that bright and, hey, really, they might be dangerous.

Heckofajob, Hitchens! Who could have known that spending ten years supporting zombies would lead to Zombieland?

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/01/hitchens-201101

@Physical Educator NIck SABAN

Know what? Fuck all these WATB more-sensitive-than-thous. Nicely put. Kudos and such. Want a fucking real world, true liberal position, kiddies? That’s it, right there. the rest of this stuff is shallow, self-impressed posturing.

There you go PENS – purity trolling: any fuckwit can do it.

Ahhhh irony. Nice to know that it’s premature obit on 9/11 was thankfully premature. Well, at least for the unintended, self-unaware brand.

Faith in humanity restored

So the dems are making a real show of strength, all of a sudden.

Dear lord, you must be joking.

Please tell me where all this principled spine was earlier this week when Reid gave them the chance to vote for the exact fucking thing you’re asking for and it only got 53 votes? All this crap now is just a lame attempt to push responsibility for whatever happens off onto Obama’s plate, so they can hide under the cloak of plausible deniability when it come time to hold their hands out to thir coporate sponsors. Nothing more.

I mean,do you really imagine Mary Landrieu gives a rats ass about tax rates on the middle class? Or, is it possible, just maybe, perhaps, that her real intent is to distance herself from the party and president she pretends to support in order to get conserva-dem support?

AHAHAAHAUAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH”2″#¤#44

I don’t even care.

You so-called american “lefties” are sucking so hard at the tit-of-no-return that all you’re swallowing is the blood from your infected gums.
What’s that? Actually, doing boring shit like going door to door?
Fuck you, I’m tweetin’ this shit and comin’ up with a slogan!
My fat ass ain’t THAT *sniffff* “working class”.

Well, at least for the unintended, self-unaware brand.

Sir, you may accuse me of many things, but to aver that what I wrote was unintentional irony, that I was complete unaware of the self-mockery, and that accusation from one who is doing a school-child’s imitation of Hitchens’ control of language, calls for some redress.

Respectfully, I ask you to lube up a chainsaw, insert the same into your rectum, then yank that zip-cord.

Cockhead.

Perhaps the President should abandon 11-dimension chess and take up a new game. I would l-o-v-e to have Barack Obama sitting in on a poker game. He folds even the strongest hands. And you can bluff him til the cows come home.

So, I’m building an off-the-grid compound in a remote area that’s likely to still be livable when climate change becomes more severe.

The Unabomber’s spread is up for sale. Cabin included.

“I just read the David Brooks column about cluster liberals and network liberals. It is dumb, Dumb, DUMB, even for Brooks.”

Link? I’m always up for some Bobo.

“The Unabomber’s spread is up for sale. Cabin included.”

No deal unless you throw in the manifestos.

Props to Ifthethunderdontgetya. [Dec 11 at 2:01, 2:07, and 3:01] Amen, brother.

I became eligible to vote in 1968. I walked away from the Democrats in 1994, when the DLC and Clintonian triangulation seized control.

I always vote, in every election, for every position or ballot question, but I refuse to waste my vote on Democrats or Republicans. I select from other possibilities on the ballot. If there are none–or none that I agree with–I write in the name of someone I admire and respect. (I usually write-in friends and neighbors for local offices.)

In 2008, I wrote in Independent Bernie Sanders for President. Felt good walking out of the polling place. Feels even better today.

No deal unless you throw in the manifestos.

I’ve read it. Sophomoric pseudo-sociology.

And another Amen for brother JonFen:

“Obama and the Dems have lost me. I used to scoff at those who proclaimed there’s no real difference between the parties, but I am now there. There’s no real difference between the parties because the party lines isn’t where the important division is — it’s the corporatists vs the people. Obama and most of the Dems are corporatists.”

There ARE differences between the Two Parties. I mean, Plague and Leprosy are two quite different diseases. Plague is accompanied by excruciating pain; death comes quickly. Leprosy is a disfiguring and lingering disease, but just as fatal in the end.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for an evil.

Nice try N__B. The cabin’s in the Newseum. It’s really just some sort of storage shack that’s left on the property.

How, exactly, does one distinguish between his storage shack and his cabin? The shack is bigger?

Very late to this thread, but…who was it who punted on holding the tax vote before the mid-terms, when it might have energized voters? I seem to recall the President urging Congress to tackle the tax issue then. They chose not to do it, and in forfeiting addressing it, also handed away a HUGE campaign advantage. They could have brought it up for a vote multiple times and forced the Republicans to vote against middle-class tax cuts over, and over, and over again. These votes against the majority of voters could have in turn have been used to devastating effect in the campaigns, and voila, we might not have ended up with a Republican majority in the House, and perhaps a few less new Republican senators.

Now they’re whining because the deal that the President has made is not to their liking. When apparently it wasn’t to their liking to push a deal of their own when they had the chance.

Does this mean I’m an Obot or believe the President is the Messiah? No. I remain deeply disappointed with his repeated failures to play tough and engage in hardball. But…this one isn’t his fault; it’s the fault of the people in Congress who, given ample opportunity to deal with it, chose to do nothing because for some stupid reason, they believed it would help their re-election prospects. They were reminded that it wouldn’t, and chose to punt anyway. And then the elections rolled around and what they were told would happen happened. After the elections, they lost the advantages they held before the elections, and now want to whine about the President having to clean up the mess they elected to leave for him to mop up.

Yes, it’s a shit sandwich. But what thinking person thought it would be anything else, once the opportunity to get a sandwich with no shit on it was forfeited by the Democrats in Congress? By failing to hold a vote on the issue when they had the chance, Dems in congress essentially voted in favor of whatever shit sandwich they would be served later on down the line. And now that they’re being served, they want to bitch and moan about how it’s not what they would have liked.

Obama has done a lot of things I don’t like, but on this one, put the blame where it belongs.

This thread has been interesting–though depressing–to read. I’ve learned a good deal about the spectrum of political views held by some of the frequent posters at SN.

Now I’m heading back to my Guerilla Voter hideout in the hills….

Jennifer – don’t know if this helps, but I addressed your complaint in the first part of the original post. What you say is exactly true. It’s just that we are where we are now, and while we shouldn’t ever forget the history, it’s time to figure out the best way forward from here.

Haha! ‘Cause racism is just a bunch of pretend milarky, amirite?

Uriel – T&U’s point was exactly the opposite of that. Either your reading comprehension is shit poor or your intentionally being an ass.

How to move forward?

The proposed deal will (a) not create jobs, (b) will give the Rs entree to mess with Social Security, and (c) will worsen the deficit in the short term, thereby giving the assholes more ammo to destroy every program the feds still run and (least important) (d) will worsen the debt in the long term and constrain any future programs. My position: fuck the deal. Introduce a bill for extending UI only.

Won’t happen, of course, since it would require the Ds to be vertebrates.

Gruntled dislurker:

The oysters are safe (and delicious!) to eat though they cost 28% more this year because of the demand from NOLA (thanks BP!) due to closed LA beds. I think they’re still reasonable cause I don’t mind shucking them 50 or 60 at a time. To get through a sack we generally have them four or five different ways over the course of a week and naturally dozens get eaten raw. I don’t think my flounder with oyster stuffing & Bearnaise sauce, garlic oysters and tasso cream sauce on fresh pasta or, last night’s, fried oysters w/remoulade really have much to do with overdone beef.

Back O/T, it was easy to shuck last night listening to Bernie go on and on.

D. A – oh, I agree completely. Like I said (and apparently you said before me), the opportunity for a shit-free sandwich has passed. At this point, the choice is to accept a steaming load on the plate or a steaming load with a couple of slices of bread tossed in. I’m just having a hard time understanding why the shit sandwich now being served up is seen by some as being the President’s fault, rather than the fault of those who refused to work for getting a shit-free menu approved before the elections.

Please tell me where all this principled spine was earlier this week when Reid gave them the chance to vote for the exact fucking thing you’re asking for and it only got 53 votes?

Is this a joke? The fact that the Dems mustered a solid Congressional majority for the tax plan they want means they are clueless purity troll WATB who are selling the poor down the river for unicorns and rainbows?

Look, I know the stupid Senate rules are always part of the equation and this is all a giant fuck-up of epic proportions at this point. But c’mon, man. Can we please be angry at the fucking Republicans first and foremost? And at the goddamn progress-killing cloture rules?

Can we please be angry at the fucking Republicans first and foremost?

For, among other things, using the last four years to convert the idiotic filibuster rules into a media-approved requirement of 60 votes for EVERYTHING.

Jennifer – I dunno. Maybe it’s because after the eight years of Decider-Darth Cheney unitary executive we still have an outsized notion of what presidents are actually supposed to do. And to be fair, Obama took on the highest profile Dem job so he’s going to take the biggest knocks when the Dem agenda comes up short. Or maybe that’s not to be fair, but it is a reality.

D. Aristophanes said,

[LOGORRHEA ADVISORY] December 11, 2010 at 5:29 (kill)

That is by far the most optimistic assessment of the way a Republican House will operate that I’ve seen on a blog. I think such a lack of cynicism would get you banned at many places. I hope you’re right but I’m skeptical that that’s the way it will go down. I’ll bookmark it and admit I was wrong to say this deal should be passed if you’re right.

As for job creation, I’d like to see someone who says this deal won’t create any explain how taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of the economy is going to have a positive or neutral effect on employment. Tax cuts aren’t the best way to create jobs but the CBO projected that it would create a few million (based on a somewhat different set of tax extensions like extending them permanently but not including the good things like the EITC and not including UEI extension either). What kind of alternative stimulus is going to emerge from the new Congress if the tax cuts die and the money goes back into the budget? Where are the votes going to come from to spend that money on job creation?

And, iftehthundra and DKW, sorry for getting all heated with youse last night. You’ve always made me laugh despite your Tom rating and Notorious PAB crushing on ways so I hope you’re not too mad at me.

Look, I know the stupid Senate rules are always part of the equation and this is all a giant fuck-up of epic proportions at this point. But c’mon, man. Can we please be angry at the fucking Republicans first and foremost? And at the goddamn progress-killing cloture rules?

This is all true and would also get you banned many places. The reason to be pissed at the Democrats in Congress is that they’re not directing their criticism at the Republicans the way you say we all should be. They’re pretending that they were this close to a deal on taxes and UEI if only Obama hadn’t gotten in their way. It’s not their fault for the most part but what they’re saying now is nonsense and suckers are falling for it. Maybe that will turn out to be politically advantageous for all since Obama is going to get re-elected anyway and they can look good to liberal voters. But it’s still slimy.

Lawnguylander – Ultimately results are what matter and the Congressional Dems fucked up by not getting a result. But Jesus – they did pass a good tax bill in the House and had a friggin’ 53-vote majority to pass it in the Senate, where it died due to the assholes exploiting the … stupid? fuck it, EVIL cloture rule.

Them’s the breaks, etc. But now we have to listen to all the smarties say that the ‘optics’ or whatever are going to play out where if the compromise fails, Dems will be blamed for raising middle class taxes. This … this makes me really fucking angry. That we live in a world where the precise opposite of the truth is always assumed to inevitably become the operative political reality just … well, it DOES make me want to draw a big giant line in the sand. Because fuck that. It’s got to end. It won’t end if we keep playing that crazy game.

But that’s my emotional stance. My reasonable side is really starting to lean towards take the goddamn compromise.

Another way of looking at it. If the compromise fails and most Americans get the unvarnished message that Democrats passed a tax cut for the middle class and Republicans killed it, that would be one thing.

But that won’t be the message. Instead the actual facts will become so loaded and twisted in the media that a significant number of voters will come away thinking that the Republicans wanted to cut taxes on the middle class and the Democrats killed it.

How can we continue to pretend we can do anything in this environment?

Hey spengler – what did you think of The Walking Dead?

Exhibitionistic & Fatuous

Wait, did you just call me fat?

Hey, oooh, also, did you know that you can help people *and* make jokes? Multitasking! I does it!

yes D. you are right–with a failed media you can’t do things based on rational policy prescriptions.

but you CAN use the shittiness of the media to your benefit if you are smart. unfortunately, our side isn’t smart. they either don’t understand the active hostility of the media to rationality and thoughtfulness, or they believe the happy horseshit that because some mid level reporters and editors are liberal the media is liberal.

until we either change the game (and that’s what i work on pretty much full time–raising money to create CNN2: The Reckoning, This Time it’s Personal, ELECTRIC BOOGALOO based mostly on what i learned from mediawhoresonline) or deal with the game as it is actually played, we are fucked.

robert green – hey, I’m looking for work meself at the moment. Need any help on your CNN2 project?

Lawnguylander,

No sweat. I’ve probably done more than my share of yelling too. Like last night with your mom.

Wait, so is Physical Educator Nick SABAN the same guy as Urban Meyer the Cool Coach?

God, I hope not. I love Coach Urban Meyers. He perfectly skirts the line of real wing nut and parody wingnut. I’ve held out hope hes just a guy having fun.

No sweat.

Given the night’s hijinx with his mom, shouldn’t that more accurately be ‘sweat’?

D.–yes i do. and the whole crew here is exactly whom i am looking for, along with those with a bit more…juice. the project is ongoing and requires a billion dollars to launch, so mostly i’m fundraising from the liberal guys with the money to do such things here in LALA land.

i’ve already been reaching out and will continue to do so as i have means to make it happen.

[K]eep in mind that C-Span is bound by regulation to only broadcast the podium and/or pro-temp’s seat. There could be pockets of Senators standing around talking in the corners.

Interestingly (well, interesting in the context of C-Span 2), they have eight cameras in the US Senate chamber. I can’t really think of any shots other than the two you mentioned though and, maybe, a throw-away shot used during votes. C-Span isn’t really living up to its potential, but it does live up to the lame-ass slogan “Created by Cable. Offered as a Public Service.” much of the time.

Tl;dr The New Yorker piece, “The Empty Chamber” from earlier this year, linked above.

robert green – will there be space on your network for a middle-aged, slightly overweight, not-terribly-photogenic woman who curses a lot? I think I can help you out with that.

A little late, but,

There’s no real difference between the parties because the party lines isn’t where the important division is — it’s the corporatists vs the people.

Well, right now, it’s the people against the people, with the corporatists in the background laughing and collecting $$$. Just like in the Gilded Age, they created a “majority” and set it at the throats of the other half. That “majority” may or may not know they’re being manipulated, but those that do don’t care and the rest probably wouldn’t either; they’re getting what they want out of politics, which is to screw the rest of us, and if the price for that is getting their share of shit sandwiches from the corporatists, then so be it. Identity politics has always made people go mad like this.

That’s why I don’t quite warm up to the “corporatists vs people” narrative. If it was that simple, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The problem is that a significant part of “the people” hates the rest of the people enough to declare political all-out war on them. Because of it, we, the people, can’t get our shit together long enough to handle the corporatists. We’ll go on eating their shit sandwich for as long as that’s true.

Uriel – T&U’s point was exactly the opposite of that. Either your reading comprehension is shit poor or your intentionally being an ass.</blockquote?

You're right- i didn't connect T&U's comment to mark f's comment, and missed the context. I apologize, I was out of line there. I've just seen too many people on the supposed left side of the isle suddenly buying into right-wing retorts regarding racism in order to diminish valid objections to obviously out of line framing of criticisms of the President.

I feel like lately, a lot of people I previously respected sound like they would be one of those people in the background of Harriet Christians ranting going "right on!" It's depressing, and I apparently let my irritation with that meme get out of hand in this case.

Again, my bad, I apologize.

Damnit! fucking block quotes. How do they work?

that accusation from one who is doing a school-child’s imitation of Hitchens’ control of language, calls for some redress.

I gotta give you- that’s not bad. Not bad at all. Kuddo’s and such.

Look, I know the stupid Senate rules are always part of the equation and this is all a giant fuck-up of epic proportions at this point. But c’mon, man. Can we please be angry at the fucking Republicans first and foremost? And at the goddamn progress-killing cloture rules?

But that’s the thing- I do blame the Republicans. I have consistently blamed the republicans. and, barring some gestalt shifting event, I have no doubt I will continue to blame the Republicans for some good time to come.

However, given that, I’m not willing to excuse democrats who prefer to demure to republicans in order to come back later and bitch about the outcome of that tactic. Especially when they do so at the expense of a Democratic president that has been hammering away at this issue since the primaries.

The problem in question is that the original poster is willing to happily hang the blame for the position were in on Obama’s neck, even though he’s the only one of the parties involved that has a consistent track record of at least expending some capital pushing on this topic.

Again, do I have to remind you that one of the supposed heroes of this poster’s piece is fucking Mary Landreau?

Are you trying to be reasonable? In the Blogosphere? The place on the cyber-map marked Here Be Trolls, Spoofs and Kowardly Keyboard Kommandoes and those weird assed things that sit their and shriek all the time. Where the worst fate one faces for being a complete and total twat is maybe getting banned from a comments section.

God speed, sir. God speed.
(Oh, he’s so brave! [Blows nose.])

Their = THERE. Damn.

I blame Obama. Or Hillary. Wait, who am I supposed to hate today?

So, I’m building an off-the-grid compound in a remote area that’s likely to still be livable when climate change becomes more severe. Y’all are welcome to come. It’s hard work, but it’s honest. And a good place to hole up to escape the zombie hordes.

Totally late to the thread, but I’m only in if T&U wears a low-cut chainmail gown, and Larkspur rides on my shoulders so we can terrorize the lower levels under the ‘nym Master Blaster Spinster Bastard.

What the fuck have you all sanctimonious douchebags done for the world lately? Besides make stupid repetitive “jokes” and talk about your tits?

On a comedy blog?

P E NI S? Really?