Compare & Contrast

Who can explain the difference between this quote:

“You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake… This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies.”

Osama bin Laden, “Letter to America”

And this one:

“I am not buying into the innocent civilians meme. If by ignorance, complicity, neglect or helplessness the Lebanese wouldn’t throw Hezbollah out and establish a strong government, then they must pay the price for the sins of Hizbollah.”

Atlas Pam, “The Innocent Civilian Meme,” via Iron Fist LGF Watch

I think they’re equally evil, but bin Laden’s rant is slightly more coherent.


Comments: 48


Pam wins on points, but bin Laden missed the fact that we don’t choose the government anymore – the Supremes and Diebold do that for us.


I love how she thinks arguing against killing innocent civilians is a “meme.” That’s about the craziest thing ever.


Pammy has nicer juggs, though…


Bin Laden’s a lot more articulate, and seems slightly less crazy. Also, Bin Laden, as far as I can tell, is perfectly consistent in his application of this argument. I don’t believe that Pam/Atlas is.


So our favorite Supergirl is actively pro-Al Qaeda?


Also, Bin Laden, as far as I can tell, is perfectly consistent in his application of this argument. I don’t believe that Pam/Atlas is.

Yeah, that’s pretty much right. Bin Laden’s argument is certainly sick and twisted, but it at least stays true to its own warped logic.


If you keep in mind that the boundaries of Lebanon were delineated by the French in such a manner (ie evenly split between Christian, Sunni, and Ismaili) that it would be impossible to for there to be a strong central government, Atlas has a much weaker argument than bin Laden.

Were all Athenians equally to blame for what happened to Lesbos?

Perhaps not, but that did not keep the rest of the Hellenic world world from backing the Spartans when it was clear that Athens had gotten too big for its britches. (Apologies for getting all VDHish).


So our favorite Supergirl is actively pro-Al Qaeda?

No. She just thinks it’s OK to kill innocent civilians as long as they’re brown. That’s what it really boils down to.


Keeping in mind that Osama’s rant wasn’t delivered in english. While I suspect it was indeed more coherent, this isn’t really an indication.

That said, no one who understands what it is to be an American should find the above words tumbling from their mouths or fingertips.


So I guess Superbimbo thinks the Iraqis deserved Saddam, right? And that they should pay the price for the sins of Saddam?


On thing I wonder–since there’s about 25,000 American citizens in Lebanon, and the bushites have just rushed an enormous load of bombs to Israel to use on Lebanon, is it going to bother any Americans when our own citizens start getting killed by our own bombs?

Notorious P.A.T.

“is it going to bother any Americans when our own citizens start getting killed by our own bombs?”

Hm, how about We’re fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here? Does that still work?


Hmmmmm….probably Glenn Greenwald and a sock puppet they are so eerily alike. Surprised Ace et al haven’t picked up on it. Heh!


John Aravosis said the same thing recently, and challenged anyone to refute his logic. Just about every comment did so, and he promptly ignored them. The moral of the story is, citizens who don’t have fancy mobile phones and orchids can’t be innocent and deserve to die.

Can’t we all just agree that we *don’t* want people bombing the shit out of each other? I don’t see what’s so controversial about that.


But Fiver, we want The Bad Guys(tm) to bomb the shit out of each other while The Good Guys(tm)–i.e., us and whomever we have taken a fancy to at the moment–can shake our heads in fake sympathy while silently giggling with glee.


I hate to defend either of them, but the bombing of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War was condemned by all enlightened opinion as a war crime . . . and was followed during WWII by area bombing of civilians by all sides.


That’s a good point, Dorothy. Maybe if all those silly brown people keep bombing each other, they’ll all die and we can take their oil! Whee!


I’ve realized that I have the wrong attitude about Pam. I’ve come to recognize that she’s my favorite person on the Internet (in small quantities). From now on, I want you people to stop saying bad things about her.


By Pam’s logic, there is no such thing as terrorism or a terrorist. If all civilians are equally complicit, then everyone is a legitimate target for everyone else, including her and her four lovely daughters.

I think this even trumps what Drindl said. So what if the Iraqi people were held fast under Saddam’s iron heel? They could resist. They could rise up. Their supposed powerlessness was just a wussy kind of complicity.

(Pam, in nasal Jerry Lewis “LAY-dee!” voice): Hell-oo? It’s cawled making a revolution! WE did it! Pick up a gun and fight awready!)

So there we have it. Via Atlas, everyone is a soldier in an army, in a continual and pan-global state of war in which everyone is fair game. Perfect.


Hmmm. I wonder if Pammy’s mom and dad and sisters and brothers and aunties and uncles lived in Beirut if she’d be so aggressively for bombing the Lebanese citizens who are responsible for Hizbollah’s presence because they didn’t chase the Hizbollah guerillas out of the country with a sharpened stick…



Oh dear oh dear. John’s comment at 16:43 is undoubtedly going to force all of Lefty Blogistan to bitterly denounce not only John, but Sadly, No! (his enablers, of course) and by extension, every person to the left of Ronald Reagan. Way to go John! /sarcasm


And so it came to pass that Pam of the Atlas sayeth, Let me go unto the land of Israel, where I might enlighten the Israelites on how best to smite the Hizbollites.

2 In a hectoring, grating tone.

3 But the Israelites, no slouches in the art of smiting, smiled not upon Pam, saying, Go back even unto America, for we hath enough on our hands without Yankee lunatics lecturing us on the need for more slings and arrows.

4 And so Pam stayed in the land of America, and waxed wroth…


I shudder to think that, somewhere, here in Manhattan, she’s vlogging.


I’m going to go out on a limb here and say Osama is worse, but has a better boob job.


Well, Osama wasn’t, we assume, drunk at the time he said it. So Pam can be forgiven for her incoherence.



So I guess Superbimbo thinks the Iraqis deserved Saddam, right? And that they should pay the price for the sins of Saddam?

I hate to say it, but I’ve seen exactly that argument used, more than once. Yes, there are people who claim that the Iraqis deserved the invasion, and all that came with it, for not rising up and overthrowing Saddam.

It’s scary what cognitive dissonance (or just plain “not thinking”) can do to a person.


Does Pam think the civilians in Lebanon can control Hezbollah through catty blog posts and crappy youtube videos?

Because I don’t see her contributing anything more substantial than that to the direction of her own government, I guess that means Bin Laden has a right to target her.


So I guess Superbimbo thinks the Iraqis deserved Saddam, right? And that they should pay the price for the sins of Saddam?

I just like, on every occasion where I can remotely wedge it in, to tell the story of my idiot neighbor who in the runup to the invasion felt that the Iraqi people didn’t deserve our liberating them because of what they did to the towers.

This is the kind of stupidity you can’t even chart. Fortunately for Karl Rove, people this dumb are too stupid to breed, so there weren’t a lot of them.

I note that as of this week, idiot neighbor now has a “In Case of Rapture this vehicle will be unmanned” license plate holder. You know, if you honestly believe that, you have no business driving, and particularly not a Ford Excursion. Stick to fucking skateboards. You’re less likely to kill people when you’re swept up in the cosmic clothing-optional tornado to Oz.

And, you know, God? If you’re planning on taking her? Leave the muu-muu on. Nobody needs to see that in zero gravity. Especially not from below.


D. Sidhe, hahaha. I’d actually like a list of all the Rapturists, so that when they disappear, I can go to their houses and steal any guitars, amps, keyboards, drum kits, mics and recording equipment laying around. That shit’s expensive.


May their reasonably identifical heads collide and explode into purple puddles of loonshit.


er “identical” 🙂


Tragically, Henry, I think you’d have to make do with the leatherbound Collectors Edition of the complete Left Behind series and her In Case Of Rapture bwa-haa-haa videotape she’s made for her godless neice and that ethnic man she’s living in sin with.

I believe she also has a pile of old TV Guides, with the letters she actually wrote hilighted.


Didn’t Dershowitz just make this exact same argument?


That’s why they’re denying Dishwitz the Technorati scores. Great way to show him who is company is. I was hoping SN would cover this.

‘Course, can you really be an innocent civilian if you’re not turning in at least a few neighbors? Didn’t think so.


I’m going to just say this now. This bimbo had NO intention of ever going to Isreal and her announcemnet about the PR dude from the ‘Isreali State Dept’ was her out.

none of it ever happened, just sayin’


Just in case anyone gives a damn, here’s the post I keft on Pammies “There are no Innocents” pysyco threda:

“How many synomyms can one summon to express the words “foul”, “hateful”, “psychotic”, or “murderous”. Do humanity a favor, Ms. Oshry, crawl under a rock until you find your humanity.Your blanket condemnation of innocents being slaughtered as ‘just as guilty’ as the murderous thugs of Hammas makes you indistinguishable from the enemy you despise. I hope that the Isrealis, that simply want to live their lives day to day, finally wake up and throw out the right wing thugs in their government. These ‘hate pimps'(aka Neocons), endanger their lives more than any ‘homicide bomber’. Ironically, These thugs need islamic militants to justify their existence or they might actually have to find real jobs. Both sides of the extremist coin need each other or they face extinction. The Netanyahoos and Sharons would find themselves having to make an honest living, if they didn’t have the stick to put into the snake hole of muslim extremist idiots that are their counterparts. Until the people living in this region, be they muslim, jew, or christian, finally deal with these parasites and force them to get honest work, this kind of crap will never end. I hope that someday you realise that killing will never solve anything in this matter. It’s been going on for 5k plus years. What makes you think a little more murder will solve the problem?”

I know it’s a waste of time with a kill ’em all type, like Boob Grabber Pam, but what the hey.


At least one suspects that Osama wouldn’t have spelled “Hezbollah” (“Hizbollah?” it’s *so* confusing!) differently twice in one paragraph. Maybe he has the right attitude about being a Drunky McSluttington.
P.S., D. Sidhe r/e teh Rapture… Eeeeewwww!!1!


Marq: Yeah? Yeah?? At least you’re not expected* to find things that look like that attractive. The very thought is enough to turn me straight.

*for a given value of “expected”.


If only that damned Arabic wasn’t so hard to translate into the Holy Tongue of American. I notice Gary Ruppert thinks it’s spelled Hizb’allah, they’re saying Hezbollah or Hizbollah.

Personally, we should just all try writing like حزب الله and say fuck all to the consequences.


Actually, Pam raises some interesting questions. Being technically a “civilian”
doesn’t necessarily make anyone (except children) innocent. If you voted for and
supported Hamas, then you voted in support of the genocide of the Jews, exactly as if you had voted for and supported the actions of Adolf Hitler.



Voting for Hamas would tend to make someone…um…not living in Lebanon.

Can we please at least try to to pretend there’s a difference between one group of Arabs and another? You know, so people don’t start to think we’re anti-Semitic*…or stupid…or something…

(*Arabic belongs to the Semitic language group–ironic, isn’t it?)


How soon before Osama becomes a Pajamas Media contributor?



Using your logic:

Wonder how many people in the WTC voted Bush?

Just curious.


So Ho-sayer’ thinks he deserves to be killed, having voted for Bosh? I’ll take that deal. Just do it yourself somewhere out of earshot, Ho.


Please forgive the Jose Chung scripting errors, we are currently working on a fix.


My new meme:

conservative = terrorist


The people who voted for Hamas have nothing to do with Lebanon, they would be Palestinians, those are a different bunch of people, Jose. If you look at a map of the Middle East you’ll see lots of countries there.


Drindl said,

July 22, 2006 at 17:46

“On thing I wonder–since there’s about 25,000 American citizens in Lebanon, and the bushites have just rushed an enormous load of bombs to Israel to use on Lebanon, is it going to bother any Americans when our own citizens start getting killed by our own bombs? ”

It’s already going around the righ-blogosphere that these people were stupid, and deserved what they might get. Of course, right before that, I don’t recall seeing any comments to the effect that Americans should stay the h*ll out of Cedar Revolution-Land.

It’s just like Katrina; there is a large number of ‘Americans’ who will stab other Americans in the back, the moment that the good of the GOP (or of Likkud) demands it.


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