Why Jeff Can’t Read
Jeff Goldstein, obviously too busy pondering the glory of his penis to bother reading for context, writes the following:
So unless I’m engaging in some very fast multitasking—putting up the post, altering her comments, etc., she said what she said. And it’s there for all to see. In fact, she comments in the very thread where I reproduced it, and doesn’t mention anything about the comment being false or altered in any way.
In fact, here’s another mention of her wanting me to kiss the “spawn� for her. Still no suggestion I altered the comment.
But does that stop the folks from Sadly, No! from going to bat for her? Well, SADLY, NO!
Jeffster- please tell us how we “went to bat for her.” Perhaps you were referring to my statement here:
What Frisch did was vile. We condemn her for it. All of us.
Yeah, that sounds like a full-fledged endorsement to me!
Now, I wonder if anyone on the right-blogosphere would be so kind to condemn Jeff for saying this:
Incidentally, Tim? I touched your sister in her secret places. Lots.
Posted by: Jeff G at November 17, 2005 10:42 PM
As usual, I think the Editors has the proper take on this whole sad affair:
Additionally, I propose that the following two facts are not mutually exclusive:
1. Weblogger Jeff Goldstein is – and I speak from long experience here – a truly sad and embarrassing figure.
2. It isn’t even remotely cool to talk shit about, or make threats towards, people’s small children. This is pretty much a context-independent thing.
So say we all.
How long before he stops by to comment?
There isn’t much he can say. He’s 100% wrong and he knows it.
Just to point out, Jeff once made a “joke” out of raping Jill of Feministe in the comments section of her own blog.
I don’t have the link; but Jill, Lauren, and Amanda of Pandagon can confirm it.
I personally don’t find rape funny…
There isn’t much he can say. He’s 100% wrong and he knows it.
Since when has that ever stopped him?
Has anyone else noticed that the right-wing bloggers like Goldstein get into these fights over the weekend?
Usually on Friday the rhetoric escalates.
Is it because news is slow? Are they bored? Are their commenters bored and off work, so they have time to participate in these odd “blog fights”?
Anyways – it’s a pattern that they do not try to de-escalate the situation. Rather, these bloggers take actions that intensify the situation.
(for example – Why didn’t Jeff simply ban this woman?)
Oddly, the current instability at his site prevents any comments to that post. Every post before it is fine, but wouldn’t ya know it, you can’t comment on that one.
Who else questions that DoS attack? Or other supposed DoS attacks for that matter?
sho, gavin totally went to bat for her, even dragging up your favorite pics and moral equivalence on slaughtered iraqis.
Let me educate you on who are the real terrorists here.
btw, jillikins, i am fiercely critical of both malkin and coulter. just because i am also fiercely critical of you is no reason to ignore those data points. 😉
Now, to be fair, we don’t know if Tim’s secret-place-touched sister is a minor. And if she isn’t, and Jeff is touching her, at least he isn’t prancing about threatening to dick-slap people in circumstances in which children, or people who act like children, might be present.
I think the things that Dr. Nutjob wrote are scary and abysmal. I also think her writing style makes her sound like a 13-year-old proto-goth AOL user who is being unsuccessfully medicated for ADHD.
The fact that Jeff is a scary lunatic who routinely pens homoerotic threats does not alter that. Two wrongs do not make a right. However, two wrongs occasionally do make a shut the fuck up. Anyone with more self-respect and self-awareness than God gave Courtney Love would realize, that if they made off-putting penile assault imagery their leitmotif, that maybe if someone writes something freakish to them, it might be a good idea not to go so attention-whorish about it.
moral equivalence on slaughtered iraqis.
um, excuse me? there is no moral equivalence between the slaughter of Iraqi children and vile on-line comments.
I would expect every human being to be able to understand that. even wingnuts.
Let me educate you on who are the real terrorists here.
Is that your shitty blog? I knew not to take you seriously as soon as you used the phrase “Frisch’s supporters,” because that is a crock of bullshit. NOBODY here is supporting Frisch, you dishonest jerkoff.
Better trolls, please.
What is really important in this whole mess has so far been overlooked:
What does Ann Althouse think about cock slapping?
lol, gavin’s whole piece was supporting frisch.
since you are obviously reading impaired let me summarize. 😉
sho, frisch did, (maybe), but goldstein/the marines/jeff’s commenters/coulter/malkin did worse.
who’s the dishonest jerkoff now?
plz, while you’re watching youtubes over here on this side, watch dollard’s.
i bet Young Americans is going to KILL farenheit 911 at the BO.
you are totally going to have to deal with this eventually. 😉
ha ha, who’s the terrorist now, Gavin?
Is it…me?
[makes bashful cute face]
Five words: Freeper response to Chuy’s manager.
naw, JK this new guy is awesome. Gary never used emoticons.
In other words, IT’S THE HYPOCRISY, STUPID!!!
I think the things that Dr. Nutjob wrote are scary and abysmal. I also think her writing style makes her sound like a 13-year-old proto-goth AOL user who is being unsuccessfully medicated for ADHD.
The fact that Jeff is a scary lunatic who routinely pens homoerotic threats does not alter that. Two wrongs do not make a right. However, two wrongs occasionally do make a shut the fuck up
What Ex-Fed said.
I think both Dr. Nutjob and scary lunatic Jeff are loving the situation.
You should check out his blog. His avatar is an anime figure, which gives the blog a nice Momma’s basement/Cheeto-stained fingers ambience. Then the first link on his blogroll is to LGF, which erases any doubts about the trolls fucktardery. My guess is that “Matoko Kusanagi” is a pasty white guy who collects nunchucks and chinese stars.
Is it…me?
no, dolt!
its the DDoS tools that you deny share your simp ideologies and sympathies.
i totally understand why i haven’t visited here before– no one can read! >:-(
i hate althouse too, so disabuse yourself of the notion that i would be anything but overjoyed at the idea of her getting cockslapped.
Then the first link on his blogroll is to LGF, which erases any doubts about the trolls fucktardery.
Sorry, let me repunctuate.
“The first link on his blogroll is to LGF, which erases any doubts about the troll’s fucktardery.”
Much better.
My guess is that “Matoko Kusanagi� is a pasty white guy who collects nunchucks and chinese stars.
Don’t forget the hentai.
[i]I think both Dr. Nutjob and scary lunatic Jeff are loving the situation.[/i]
Well, exactly. And that’s why it’s just stupid to think that you are supporting Dr. Nutjob unless, in the course of condemning her, you also treat Vengeful Smegma Jeff like a Victorian maiden on a fainting couch.
Say person A is an unforgiveable dick. Say person B does an unforgiveable dickish thing of a different flavor to person A. The correct response is not to pretend that person A has stopped being a dick. The correct response is to call person B a dick and point out that person A is a dick and that you won’t be handing them nails to hammer himself onto that cross any time soon.
JK47.
actually, i am not pasty white.
Assuming he’s off by a letter (Google thinks he is), you’ve hit that creepy ambience on the head, JK. And I really hope for my mental image’s sake the troll is she, but sadly…probably not.
Nor did Gary have such problems spelling, do everything in lower case, and speak MySpace talk. Motoko is indeed a vintage troll — much better than that Dopey imposter who was over here yesterday.
but i do have hentai. 😉
JK47- that was over the line. Why not just stick to the fact that he’s going to bat form Jeffy and didn’t really read anything Gav or Brad wrote?
Laters.
Who else questions that DoS attack? Or other supposed DoS attacks for that matter
While I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that the “DoS attack” on Jeff was actually a whole bunch of internet rubberneckers crashing his server, I imagine he actually doesn’t maintain the server himself and the depiction of this as a DoS attack was made by whoever does.
JK47- that was over the line. Why not just stick to the fact that he’s going to bat form Jeffy and didn’t really read anything Gav or Brad wrote?
What fun is that? You jump in the shark tank, you might just get bitten. Dude is begging for it.
lol, that was a bite?
jk47, if you look at my argument with robert spencer (whom i also hate, btw), you can see i am a grrl and tan easily.
i you detest someone and their ideology there are better ways to deal with it than threantening their children.
i object to you all sayin’ frisch isn’t part of your crewe, and the DDoS attacks didn’t happen.
why can you just condemn both both without gavin’s attendent apologia?
I’m sorry. “going to bat” does not include stating that Dr. Frisch did a vile thing. Her posts were insulting and vile, and that was stated. The point in posting the vile and insulting things that JG and other rightwingers have posted was basically a kind of “give me a goddamn fucking break”. Their own vile comments and posts totally fly in the face of their supposed “tender sensibilities”, as well as their blase` reactions to the horrors visited upon the toddlers in Iraq on nearly a daily basis.
And again, the continued swooning JG and those on the right in support are looking more and more like they are totally digging their little piece victim hood.
I wonder what mAnn Coulter would say about it all? Oh, wait. That’s right. It’s much worse to be threatened by a disgusting troll than to lose your husband to the WORST terrorist attack to ever hit the US in the past 10 years.
why can’t….
and better beings than you have critted my spelling and caps.
😉
Frisch, who received zero support here or anyplace I saw but lots of disapprobation, has apologized and resigned, so what the heck are the protein pigeons still on about? And a little Matthew 7:3-5 love to you all, cupcakes. When your many, many well-paid and well-known haters resign in shame, we can talk again about how naughty we lefties are.
maryc, i also loathe coulter and malkin, and i have been very vocal about that.
in fact, i should be your natural ally…hmmmm….i wonder why i am not? 😉
“its the DDoS tools that you deny share your simp ideologies and sympathies.”
I think this is code for “YOU DID IT COBAGS!!11!”
“critted”?
maryc, i also loathe coulter and malkin, and i have been very vocal about that. in fact, i should be your natural ally…hmmmm….i wonder why i am not
Because maryc isn’t on myspace?
i object to you all sayin’ frisch isn’t part of your crewe, and the DDoS attacks didn’t happen.
See, you’re totally dishonest. Frisch is not part of our crewe (sic), no matter how badly your little wingnut heart wants it to be so. Not a single one of us had ever heard of this loon before you wingnuts made her blog celebrity du jour. Virtually every single post about this topic has included some variation of “What Frisch did was vile.” But there is no level of condemnation that is appropriate for you knuckle-draggers, because you NEED stories like this. You have a deep NEED to feel victimized. Even if it some blog comments by some random nobody, you will all cry as if you have been personally attacked. You are classic bullies.
Why didn’t Goldstein just ban her? Because getting your panties in a twist and crying foul like a little bitch is a lot more fun than just banning somebody.
On a personal level, I don’t like you. I don’t like anybody who calls Iron Fist a comrade. Your link to LGF says all I need to know about you.
i you detest someone and their ideology there are better ways to deal with it than threantening their children.
I agree!
And if a anonymous commenter has sexually threatened a two year-old-child, (and has seen a picture of said child) then a blogger who is well-aware of the potential threat should not post the personal information, home town information, and workplace information about the child’s mother & father all over the internet.
I wonder who might have done that? Hmmmm????
My Gawd, will it never end? It’s groundhog day. Will we still be talking about this non-issue raised by people who do nothing but MAKE SHIT UP anyway in a week?
*YAWN*
mikey
My Gawd, will it never end? It’s groundhog day. Will we still be talking about this non-issue raised by people who do nothing but MAKE SHIT UP anyway in a week?
I agree. I could go for a nice serving of P-Swank or Kaye, “Grogan” right about now.
Matoko:
You might actually be an ally if:
-you didn’t require password access to comment at your site;
-you actually read what Gavin wrote (at no point did he support Frisch)
-you actually had some evidence that anybody associated with S,N! had anything to do with DoS attacks (or that DoS attacks actually occurred, and that Dickslap didn’t just crash his own server through ineptitude).
Other than that, nice to make your acquaintance.
Marie Jon’ dubags!11@!!
Goldstein’s site is back up, so you can leave now.
I suddenly yearn for the bleeding eyes and ears of the Great Video War…
Can we just refer to this as the Great Frisch Embrolgio and move on with our little lives people?
See, Gavin, by pointing out that Jeff has made vile comments and thinly-veiled (and, OK, naked) threats against people you didn’t Stand Up for Your Boi(TM). The only response acceptable to Jeff woud be head-bobbing and choruses of “Yes, Socrates! Of Course, Socrates! How could it be otherwise, Socrates?” Anything other than total sycophantic cheerleading is an attack.
It must be so comforting to live in a zero-sum game of Black-&-White, UsVsThem: you always know what’s expected of you, no thinking necessary. Jeff and Friends think life is like an ancient Roman comedy: every person is a single-minded, self-obvious stereotype with completely predictable behavior. The braggert soldier will always boast and get caught, the young lovers will always moon over each other, the dirty old man will always make an ass of himself. Likewise, the Noble Conservative will always be refined and statesmanlike, the Angry Liberal will always be dangerously radical and borderline insane, and the Undecided Moderate will always clutch his pearls in horror and resolutely declare his support for the Noble Conservative not because he agrees with the policies, but simply because the Angry Liberal is so shrill and Unhinged.
Engaging in an actual debate with the Monochromatic Community is like giving a lecture on tesseracts in Flatland: they simply haven’t got the frame of reference to even *hear* two-thirds of what you’re saying, much less understand and consider it.
(prediction: the response to my previous comment will be some variant “But you supported Deb Whazszerface! So I don’t have to listen to you!” or “You just hate Jeff and his glorious cock!”)
The only response acceptable to Jeff woud be head-bobbing and choruses of “Yes, Socrates! Of Course, Socrates! How could it be otherwise, Socrates?�
🙂 This comment made me laugh out loud.
They don’t call it Puppetry of the Goldstein for nothing.
See, Gavin, by pointing out that Jeff has made vile comments and thinly-veiled (and, OK, naked) threats against people you didn’t Stand Up for Your Boi(TM).
Yes, but don’t forget, Dorothy, nobody has been able to find an example of a right-winger saying “I wouldn’t care if someone Jon-Beneted your child.” See, as long as they don’t say EXACTLY that, they’re not as bad as us, because we are all such huge Deborah Frisch fans. Or something like that.
Wait, I figured it out… Sadly, No! is the rea transhumanists! Gold/stein got too close into finding out your secret, so you did a DOS attack on him through your robotic appendages!
Yes, it is all clear now… now who on the right to inform of this earth shattering news?
ugh… rea = real without the l in my last comment.
dam typos…
it is a transhuman conspiracy, you know!
You still don’t get it, do you?
Your (and others’) total & complete inability to _unequivably_ denounce Frisch and her shameful attacks is almost as despicable as her attacks. Your promotion of her as both Saint and Poor Innocent Victim is beyond the grasp of any intelligent, reasonable person, whatever their political leaning may be.
BTW, “unequivably” means “no ifs, ands or buts”. Work with the concept for awhile.
KS
“unequivably” is not a word. The word you want is “unequivocally.”
this is a really nice racket the right has going here. confederate yankee writes a post pointing out that some lefty somewhere said something very bad (and, indeed, it was very bad), which is fine. but then he goes on to say that since no lefties have since stepped up to condemn this lefty — who no one had ever heard of before, and who wrote in a place that few lefties are likely to be reading on a regular basis — they clearly are 100% behind her comments and are probably kicking themselves for not having gotten to it first, with the insinuation that some of them would probably even like to rape and murder j.g.’s son. this deliberate provocation works perfectly, as the lefties denounce frisch’s comments as sick, but also counterattack by pointing out that it’s a bit rich for right-wingers to accuse the left of condoning vile statements, which of course allows the right wing to shriek about false equivalence and minimization of an awful incident and how dare the left step up and defend such comments? the joke is, of course, that everyone knows that nobody thinks that frisch’s comments were acceptable in any way: the purpose of all these calls for condemnations is not to make sure that everyone agrees that it is wrong to advocate the murder of children, but to deal political damage to the left, but frisch’s despicable comments provide excellent cover for the right’s intentions. like i said, it’s a nice racket.
i should be your natural ally…hmmmm….i wonder why i am not?
Because you live somehere in flyover country but subscribe to every fearmongering wingnut who assures you that the Ay-rabs are going to blow up the local Cowpatty Museum any day now! But giving all your rights up to Big Daddy government is the answer! Until, of course, a Democrat majority returns at which point you’ll demand back all the rights you’ve given up (but not those big Homeland Security bucks that you’re taking away from NY!).
BTW, “unequivably� means “no ifs, ands or buts�.
Sadly, no! Unequivably doesn’t mean anything because it’s not a real word. Your neologisms embiggen us all. It really frees you when you can just make shit up, like saying that:
What Frisch did was vile. We condemn her for it.
is the same as beatification.
willie is SO right!
as long as we keep letting ourselves get dragged to the schoolyard, we know that about half the time the bullies will win, and half the time we will.
nothing that happens on blogs is comparable to starting wars on false pretences. Keep that as our response, and we keep winning 100% of the time.
Karen Schell:
Please link and quote where ANYONE has promoted Frisch as “Saint and Poor Innocent Victim.” No one has done so. Either you cannot recognize that, in which case you are unable to read, or you can see that, in which case you are a liar.
Work with the concept for a while.
2 things:
1. Matoko is an idiot – leftist my ass :
Now Jeff is one of my all time favorite bloggers.
straight from her own blog.
2. Karen Schell, please, fuck off – you are a rabid moron.
Please – go type ‘unequivably’ in dictionary.com for me. The result is this:
No entry found for UNEQUIVABLY.
That is not a real word, you fool.
Sadly No has said it, I have said it, several people in this comment thread have said it – everyone here UNEQUIVOCALLY (I know that is what you meant – you went to public school, didn’t you?) denounce Frisch and her shameful attacks.
Are you happy, or should I restate that with the word you used that doesn’t actually exist?
almost as despicable as her attacks
Why, you little moral relativist, you.
Your promotion of her as both Saint and Poor Innocent Victim is beyond the grasp of any intelligent, reasonable person, whatever their political leaning may be.
Links please, because I do believe you are a liar.
The word “vile” has been used consistently. Nobody thinks what she did was alright, everyone thinks it was beyond the pale, and the fact that you and every other protein patsy thinks you have the right to swoop in and smugly demand YET ANOTHER repudiation has gotten so old its wrinkles now have wrinkles. If that’s too equivocal for you, well, tough crappies.
Wow, apparently Matoko thinks Stephen Jay Gould was EEEEVIL. Now, that is twisted.
[…] UPDATE x2: And despite this support they have given Frisch, by blindly accepting her side of the comment-altering story against Goldstein’s IP address proof, they pretend in this post that they haven’t supported her. Gotta love it. […]
Oh, come on now. Karen Schell is the best new troll we’ve seen here all day. We should be encouraging her to enlighten us with more definitions to imaginary words, not trying to drag her down.
Honestly, if we don’t properly nurture the good trolls, who will we have to play with?
J: (places two manuscripts on the table, but picks up the top one)
Here it is, sir: the very cornerstone of English scholarship. This book,
sir, contains every word in our beloved language.
G: Hmm.
E: Every single one, sir?
J: (confidently) Every single word, sir!
E: (to Prince) Oh, well, in that case, sir, I hope you will not object if
I also offer the Doctor my most enthusiastic contrafribblarities.
J: What?
E: `Contrafribblarites’, sir? It is a common word down our way.
J: Damn! (writes in the book)
E: Oh, I’m sorry, sir. I’m anus-peptic, phrasmotic, even compunctious to have
caused you such pericombobulation.
J: What? What? WHAT?
G: What are you on about, Blackadder? This is all beginning to sound a bit
like dago talk to me.
E: I’m sorry, sir. I merely wished to congratulate the Doctor on not having
left out a single word. (J sneers) Shall I fetch the tea, Your Highness?
G: Yes, yes — and get that damned fire up here, will you?
E: Certainly, sir. I shall return interphrastically. (exits) (J writes some
more)
Unfortunately, your own words betray you. Your earlier posts are very clearly a defense of Frisch. Here’s a hint: as soon as you begin pointing to the behavior of other’s rather than condemning her behavior – you are defending her. You are attempting to create moral equivalence.
It’s the “but, clause” paradigm. Consider Ann Coulter’s recent comments. Suppose I said exactly what you said: “Of course, we all condemn Coulter’s comments, but the intellectually dishonest folks at sadlyno.com say the same things all the time …”
Your call. Is what I just wrote REALLY not a defense of Coulter? (Sure – it’s a lazy, pispoor defense. Which is just what you offered. But it’s a defense).
If you’re curious to see what an HONEST non-defense looks like, I’ll just point you at a fellow liberal blogger that seems to have a little more integrity and self-awareness than you kids. This is from bonafide nutroots loonyleft moonbat Marycott O’Connor at myleftwing.com.
I’ll let YOU decide if you can catch the difference between what you wrote and what she wrote:
“I’m a leftwing blogger. I heard about this rabid woman and her threatening comments, came here to read them and having done so, would like to speak for myself and my blog community thusly:
I reject this woman’s words and actions. She does not speak for me. This incident is utterly reprehensible and I offer you my sincere sympathy for any pain or anxiety she may have caused you.
Absolutely disgusting.
Sincerely,
Maryscott O’Connor
myleftwing.com”
Can the Patterico people really be that blindingly stupid and still operate PCs, or are they being intellectually dishonest, just like most of the right these days? Discuss.
Or: Why should anyone care about the value judgments re: sufficiency of strength of Fritsch condemnations from people who won’t denounce Goldstein, Coulter, et al *at all*? There’s no point in playing the “no I didn’t!” game with inveterate liars unburdened by any iotae of integrity.
wow this topic is teh boring. The Pontificating Patterico “updates” with more JG love. I think the last time I read something he wrote, he was defending against Retardo’s body slam of JG with “Jeff’s humor is so sophisticated.”
ps. I can’t believe more people are preferring the troll of Karen over Motoko. One attempt at a sophisticated harang that is marred by the use of a non-word DOES NOT trump an excess of emoticons, lower caps, and super-MySpacification of the comments. Plus, Matoko went with the “learn to read” card after only two posts. It takes the garden variety trolls like TallBoringDave at least ten posts to go there.
Dig that trackback, man! Here’s what’s funny to me: the thing that apparently hacks these dingbats off is that, in rightfully condemning the damn fool things this silly woman wrote* in Goldstein’s** comments section, Gavin pointed out that the offending party is a fairly loathesome excuse for a political commentator and as vile as the comments were, he sorta comes off as a big ol’ whining whiner who can dish it out but can’t take it. And what do all his supporters do? Whine that it isn’t fair to point out the Goldstein’s a whining whiner who can dish it out but can’t take it. Which just makes Goldstein look like a big whining whiner who can dish it out but can’t take it.
It’s an infinite loop of douchbaggery, is what it is.
* Jesus, this is becoming like the whole “we support the troops” or “we’re against terrorism” thing you have to do when daring to disagree with the Wingnut Overmind. It’s like they keep forgetting or something.
** Say, did this goober ever get an actual job so’s he can spring for a new pad or what?
I never heard of this woman.
I don’t agree with her statements.
Fight the power.
Sincerely,
The Commentariat of Sadly, No!
Here’s a hint: as soon as you begin pointing to the behavior of other’s rather than condemning her behavior – you are defending her. You are attempting to create moral equivalence.
Wrong. One can simultaneously discuss two things without necessarily implying they are equivalent. Try again.
“Here’s a hint: as soon as you begin pointing to the behavior of other’s rather than condemning her behavior – you are defending her.”
Hint: As soon as you display reading comprehension, you might be able to play. Try your sky-is-green-with-polka-dots illogic on an easier room. Your ideas were already ruptured utterly higher up in this thread. (Oh yeah, that reading comprehension stuff again.)
Yes, yes, blather on, ‘Professor’.
You are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Not one person supported the bitch. This isn’t some Kos-controlled lefty-blog conspiracy. Everyone said she was a stupid bitch that doesn’t represent any of us.
What the hell else are you looking for? Hari Kari? Sheesh.
actually, i am not pasty white.
My God, he looks like Robert Spencer.
And despite this support they have given Frisch, by blindly accepting her side of the comment-altering story
“Her side”? “Comment altering”? WTF? Where did this come from? Who suggested that “the story” is in doubt? Who here is arguing that Whozzerface was wrongfully accused or….
Heeeeey! Wait a minute!
Am I on Candid Camera?
Cause the only other explanation I can think of is that Jeff is so far detached from the reality that he got really lonely and is trying to trick everyone into joining him in Bizarro World.
It’s the “but, clause� paradigm. Consider Ann Coulter’s recent comments. Suppose I said exactly what you said: “Of course, we all condemn Coulter’s comments, but the intellectually dishonest folks at sadlyno.com say the same things all the time …�
Yeah. No one ever goes to the Michael Moore is fat well when talking about Coulter or anything.
Attention Right Wing Blogosphere:
You keep using the phrase “moral equivalence”. I do not think it mean what you think it means.
its the DDoS tools that you deny share your simp ideologies and sympathies.
i totally understand why i haven’t visited here before– no one can read!
Sigh. First of all “its” is the possesive form of “it”, not a contraction of “it is” which would be “it’s”. It should also be capitalized as it starts of a sentance. Secondly, tools can not share ideologies or sympathies. They are inanimate objects. Finally, “simp” is not an adjective, it is a noun.
Please refrain in the future from accusing people of not being able to read until such a day comes that you yourself learn to write.
The only response acceptable to Jeff woud be head-bobbing and choruses of “Yes, Socrates! Of Course, Socrates! How could it be otherwise, Socrates?�
🙂 This comment made me laugh out loud.
Dorothy’s comparison of the JeffCo worldview to a Roman comedy was also apt. Even more so, because one of Terence’s play’s is The Self-Tormentor. I had a mental flash of a comments thread involving names like Chremes, Clitipho and Biggus Dickus, and that made the akvavit come out my nose.
Then I suffered a Denial-of-Brain attack — for which I hold you all collectively responsible.
I know it must have been said already, but there is no need to threaten, pick on or even mention anyone else when mocking Jeff G.. The asshole is a gold mine, taking a shot at family members, young or old is just lazy and stupid. Pity for those poor souls that have to acutally listen to his spew is a more sensible. Christ there is not a day go by when the ‘ the talking pile o’ shit’ doesn’t say something worth mocking.
HEY KAREN SCHELL said,
July 10, 2006 at 22:11
“unequivably� is not a word. The word you want is “unequivocally.�
====================
DOH! Thank you for that input, anon, I sit corrected!
But it is tragic – no matter how it’s spelled 🙂 – that this blog and many others just can’t bring themselves to flat-out denounce Frisch and her psychotic threats. Especially the ones against children. And it’s quite sad how so many, including this site, are serving as apologists for her & her actions.
Instead of placing Frisch on a pedestal it would be much more helpful to everyone if everyone impressed on Frisch her need to receive serious psychiatric treatment.
Coverssely, there’s no need to demonize her due her mental issues; indeed it seems she already has enough inner “demons” to handle just as it is.
KS
Matt T: I think it’s more of a Mobius Loop of cobaggery.
Btw,
I don’t expect every leftist site out there to condemn this. I do expect that, if they are going to discuss it, they should condemn it.
Gavin says he condemned it, but it would have been more credible if he had 1) not taken her side on her accusation that Goldstein altered her comment, since he had no evidence of that, and 2) saved the comments about righty outrages for another post.
When I condemned Coulter, I just flat-out condemned her. When Maryscott O’Connor condemned Frisch, she just flat-out condemned her.
It’s an opportunity to show that certain things transcend partisanship — like the principle of how one should not make comments about the two-year-old children of one’s political opponents being shot.
Gavin flubbed that opportunity.
I see Brad said he condemned her, and that was the end of it. He then went on about all the horrible things Jeff has said and how’s he’s much worse of a person than Deb. I don’t see how saying some things that are of obviously bad taste are equivalent to threatening someone’s family.
Here’s a hint: as soon as you begin pointing to the behavior of other’s rather than condemning her behavior – you are defending her. You are attempting to create moral equivalence.
Ding-ding-ding-ding! We have a winner! I was wondering if any trolls would actually come out and state the “But in our world, you can only be WITH US or WITH THEM! And anything you say that is not COMPLETELY AGAINST THEM is automatically COMPLETELY AGAINST US!” And damned if one didn’t do just that!
Yes, Socrates. Of course, Socrates–wait. I forgot where I was for a moment:
“Sadly, Socrates, no.”
(Here’s a bit of trivia that is amusing me to no end: Socrates’s last words were reportedly, “I owe a cock to Aesculepius.” I wonder if he planned to slap the god of healing in the face with it….)
Kathleen said,
July 10, 2006 at 22:38
wow this topic is teh boring.
Yes. Although I love Ex-Fed’s reference to my all time-favorite Black Adder show.
Suppose I said exactly what you said: “Of course, we all condemn Coulter’s comments, but the intellectually dishonest folks at sadlyno.com say the same things all the time …�
if both of these things were *true* it would make some difference. As it is, it comes off as rather weak, because a) you don’t condemn Coulter and b) sadlyno doesn’t do the same thing.
How about you say something like this:
“Jeff Goldstein posts vile crap all the time, and i abhor it, just like i abhor Fritsch”
is that still a defense of Goldstein?
But it is tragic … that this blog and many others just can’t bring themselves to flat-out denounce Frisch and her psychotic threats.
You mean, engage in character assassination. Destroy her reputation. Denounce her, exile her… perhaps have her offed? What would be the proper denoucnement for you cobags?
And it’s quite sad how so many, including this site, are serving as apologists for her & her actions.
It’s sad that so many people on the Internet can’t read. NOBODY IS APOLOGIZING FOR HER. She was stupid for saying the things you people say every single fucking day. She’s stupid, you’re stupid. We’re just pointing out that her level of stupidity is the same as your level.
Instead of placing Frisch on a pedestal it would be much more helpful to everyone if everyone impressed on Frisch her need to receive serious psychiatric treatment.
Engage in character assasination. Create the impression of someone with mental problems. Destroy her reputation. Say what you mean, fuckers. If you’re going to be cobags, be proud cobags.
Sincerely,
The Commentariat of Sadly, No!
But it is tragic – no matter how it’s spelled – that this blog and many others just can’t bring themselves to flat-out denounce Frisch and her psychotic threats. Especially the ones against children. And it’s quite sad how so many, including this site, are serving as apologists for her & her actions.
Instead of placing Frisch on a pedestal it would be much more helpful to everyone if everyone impressed on Frisch her need to receive serious psychiatric treatment.
1. What in the fuck is equivocal about “vile?”
2. How is “vile” not a flat out denouncement?
3. How is saying what she did was “vile” serving as an apologist for Frisch and her actions?
4. How is calling what she did “vile” putting her on a pedestal.
5. How is it my business to tell someone I don’t know and had never heard of up until the wingosphere started screaching about this over the weekend to seek psychiatric help?
Coverssely, there’s no need to demonize her due her mental issues; indeed it seems she already has enough inner “demons� to handle just as it is.
Coverssely is a perfectly cromulent word I guess. The rest of this manages to make less sense than the made up word.
Last night, a murder occurred somewhere in the United States. Since all conservatives on the Internet have not condemned said murder, then it follows ipso facto ad nauseum that all conservatives approve of murder. Therefore, they should all stop talking about anything important forever, because they are dumb. And like murder.
My logic is unequivably indefeatable.
Now can we get back to more important business, like horrible YouTube postings?
Did you hear that, SadlyNomads? You’re just not condemning Frisch HARD enough!
Roy Edroso nailed it with this title: “More Helpful Advice From Your Mortal Enemies.”
Er, let’s try that link again.
Now can we get back to more important business, like horrible YouTube postings?
I know it’s not the same as when the S,N! boys do it, but I found some horrible YouTube videos. If you’re dying for that sort of thing.
[/blogwhore]
Jesus, is this bullshit still going?
Quit poking the right-wingers with sticks guys, they may look cute and funny but they can be quite vicious if annoyed.
Karen Schell says:
this blog and many others just can’t bring themselves to flat-out denounce Frisch and her psychotic threats
here are a list of quotes from this thread:
“What Frisch did was vile. We condemn her for it. All of us.”
“I think the things that Dr. Nutjob wrote are scary and abysmal”
“Her [Frisch’s] posts were insulting and vile”
“some lefty somewhere [ie: frisch] said something very bad (and, indeed, it was very bad”
“everyone here UNEQUIVOCALLY … denounce Frisch and her shameful attacks.”
“Nobody thinks what she did was alright, everyone thinks it was beyond the pale”
to be fair, the last 2 are responses to Karen’s demand for an unequivical response, but at least more than one was forthcoming.
Ok now it’s your turn! Show me the quotes where people “Put her on a pedestal”! I double-dog dare you!
Look, this is just classic political rope-a-dope, done by both sides. It’s an attempt to dictate the terms of the conversation, and it’s transparent.
Bad, wrong things are done to bad, wrong people. Pointing out that victims are bad and wrong does not excuse what is done to them. It prevents the entire message from being misleading. It prevents a vile person from transforming themselves into an innocent victim.
Frisch claims that in the wake of the publication of her statements, she received emailed death threats. Death threats are unacceptable and should be condemned. Somehow, though, I doubt the Frischmongers in this thread would raise such a hue and cry if they encountered a post that both condemned the death threats to Fisch and noted that they came in response to deranged posts by her. That’s just DIFFERENT, you see.
What the fuck’s a Frischmonger?
The people that brought this person to the attention of anyone in the left wing?
The people who’re still talking about how reprehensible she is and that the left wing should have her committed in order for the deep emotional distress a person Goldstein could’ve banned at any time caused?
Oh, wait, I know. The people in the left wing who’re saying she’s a tool, and the right wing is full of tools exactly like her. Frischmongers.
So, who’s the fucking dope we’re roping here?
Patterico,
Then you better suit up boy, because it’ll probably be a full-time job being the sin eater for the rightwing jihad. I mean, sure, threatening to rape someone’s sister is all larfs and giggles to some, but I’m sure you think that’s digusting and worthy of condemnation. Right? Condemn Goldstein, NOW! Your reputation rests on it.
Or how about a flat-out condemnation for our friend Michelle Malkin? I mean internment is wrong isn’t it? Isn’t it at least worth a trial?
How about giving a shout out to your friends and comrades who have, for the past six years, accused liberals and journalists of committing treason. Treason, of course, is punishable by death. The logic implicit in accusing someone of treason is that you think they should die for their unspeakable crimes of being opposed to the Iraq War and the Bush Presidency. Are you properly condemning them for such hateful rhetoric? If no, why not? We all know they’re fake charges, said exclusively for hysterical purposes and not to serve any real point other than to demonize. I’m sure you’ve shown the proper distain for such dishonest tactics.
A FrontPage guy gives orders to ‘track’ the photographer and her kids for taking a picture of the Rumsfeld birdhouse? I’m confident you were on the front page of condemming him for his insane ranting. I mean, you did, didn’t you?
I’ll tell you what champ, why don’t you just patrol the comment boards for LGF and tell them how you are all in favor of clean and honest debate and, dammit, your intellectual consistency won’t let you rest until each and every one of their racist or homocidal posts have been properly condemned! It’s the very, very least you can do. Having the deep and abiding scruples you so obviously do.
I don’t think you caught the point of that. Frischmonger is my term for people who say that, because they’ve decides to make her an issue, everyone must be all-pity-party-for-Jeff, all the time, or else they support toddler abuse.
And rope-a-dope is my term for this process — taking nutty comments or behavior by some fringe nutcase, then demanding that the party/group/etc. that with which the nutcase is ostensibly affiliated spend all its time apologizing for her. (Which, of course, associates said nutcase more firmly in everyone’s mind with that party/group — which is exactly what is intended with the tactic).
Instead of placing Frisch on a pedestal
You are completely full of shit. Completely, utterly, comprehensively and totally full of shit. In a day full of total bullshit, this little phrase takes the cake. Take your strawman tactics elsewhere, you twit.
It’s an opportunity to show that certain things transcend partisanship — like the principle of how one should not make comments about the two-year-old children of one’s political opponents being shot.
Gavin flubbed that opportunity.
Hang on a fucking second.
What did Confederate Yankee say about this Frisch incident?
So he uses this as an excuse, not to “transcend partisanship,” but instead to take a shot at the entire political Left, to suggest that they in some way are fine with these tactics. And then when some of them respond by telling him to fuck off, his response is basically “Ha, by resorting to partisan attacks, you’ve proven my point that the Left sucks!”
Let’s recall that Goldstein’s earlier post regarding Frisch’s crazy comments was entitled
and included such partisanship-transcending arguments as
So it’s fair game, apparently, to use Frisch’s loony behavior as an excuse to bludgeon the entire Left. But should any members of the aforementioned Left do more than “unequivably” condemn Frisch, then shame on them for failing to transcend partisanship!
Look, if you want to argue that the likes of Ward Churchill and Deborah Frisch are ugly people who say ugly things, you wouldn’t have a hard time getting a general consensus on the point. But of course, that wouldn’t prove much of anything, since the argument is so easy; it would be like achieving bipartisan agreement on Jeffrey Dahmer. So instead, you have to pick a partisan fight by making them out to “embody” something larger, like the loony Left, the intolerant Left, the toddler-threatening Left, whatever.
If making people like Churchill and Frisch into liberal boogeypeople is the best you can do for an argument against liberalism, then so be it. But get off your high horse and stop kidding everyone that we’ve sinned by failing to “transcend partisanship,” when the entire incident is about scoring a partisan point in the first place.
“threatening to rape someone’s sister is all larfs and giggles to some”
Threatening to rape someone’s sister? Who did that?
If making people like Churchill and Frisch into liberal boogeypeople is the best you can do for an argument against liberalism, then so be it. But get off your high horse and stop kidding everyone that we’ve sinned by failing to “transcend partisanship,� when the entire incident is about scoring a partisan point in the first place.
Testify, brother. Goldstein and his minions are obviously exploiting this, which is pretty sick if you think about it yet not surprising in the least bit.
I’m simply saying it would have been classier to simply condemn Frisch and leave the partisanship for another post. Instead, Gavin’s point about Frisch was to make a partisan point. And you do the same, Steve, by saying “you have to pick a partisan fight” and buttressing your accusation directed at *me* with examples of what other people have said.
I do think that her comments are an example of the fringe left. But I also think there is a fringe right capable of being just as nasty. I don’t see it on a regular basis, but my theory is that each side more clearly sees the fringe elements of the other side, because you don’t get attacked by the fringe elements of your own side.
Patterico – so where is your post condemning the Righties for attempting to use the Frisch comments to make yet another slander against Lefty blogs, and lefties in general.
or are you just the hypocrite I think you are?
Read Steve’s comment. Then read it again.
Steve,
You just compared Dr. Frisch to Jeffrey Dahmer. Why would you put her on a pedestal like that?
On Protein Wisdom’s front page there is a link to a picture from a newspaper of the professor, her partner and a young child.
I think posting this picture, in this environment, is unwise. I especially think that the young child’s face should not be shown in association with this mess.
Patterico:
Perhaps Jeff would listen to you? Obviously the parties involved are so deep into this fight they need to be calmed down by others.
Patty is only here to score what he thinks are easy points without actually determining the merit of the conversation nor is he capable of staying on target.
The point, Patterico is that condemning Frisch is about as pointless as condemning some Russian 4th grader that said Bush looked like a monkey. Frisch is an unknown entity that did something stupid, so who is going to apologize for the other million posters around the internet today?
Wait, a blogger said NASCAR people are idiots, quick, lets condemn it before CY finds out!
Unequivably is a perfectly cromulent word.
Wow, the multitude of trolls here lately has provided me much needed comic relief. Thanks losers!!! I’m mainly talking to you Karen Schell and Matoko Jimbo. Keep the laughs coming!
Is anyone on the right going to condemn the appalling statements I read every day inan internet politics chat room that you guys must know about, since everyone in the blogosphere is omnivalent or something like that?
Every day I see wingnuts call for the murder of 1 billion Muslims.
Where is the outrage? Why are you silent?
Patt, did you seriously just ask this?
Threatening to rape someone’s sister? Who did that?
I refer you to the top of this very post. Unless your goal by asking something so asinine was to simply argue over semantics, in which case: fuck you.
Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Jeff Goldstein or his son.
Patterico you stupid stupid fuckwit.
Jeff Goldstien and his commenters have said things as bad or worse than this idiot dispicable Frisch woman, yet you excused Goldstein’s and his commenters’ threats as good humor and intelligent repartee. Hell, you practically endorsed them!
So your moral high ground is actually a ditch and from that position whatever you’ve tried to spit at us has landed back in your fucking face (whether you’re sentient enough to see it, however, is another can of worms).
dgbellak,
At the top of a post I see an assertion with no link that Goldstein made a joke about raping someone called Jill at Feministe.
I ask again: who threatened to rape someone’s sister? It’s not semantics to ask whether an accusation is actually true.
Patterico–
That’s just it. People like Malkin and Coulter (and cock-slapper JeffG) are not considered to be fringe characters, unles fringe characters get invited onto national news shows regularly.
Patrol your own side and then come back and tell us all about it. A quick visit to Little Green Footballs ought to suffice.
Until then, spare us the hypocritical “advice”.
Holy can we get back to the annoying videos, Batman.
Brad, what happened to all those smart commenters you were talking about?
BTW, Patterico:
If you need a link to find Feministe, you’re worse off than I thought. Try Google.
I ask again: who threatened to rape someone’s sister?
Actually, it is factually inaccurate to say that Goldstein threatened to rape someone’s sister. He did make a vile, gutter-schoolyard comment about having touched someone’s sister in her private places. It is not clear if the sister in question was a child or an adult, but it was pretty crass nonetheless.
Just like Frisch didn’t threaten anyone– she made a vile statement about not giving a shit if someone killed Goldstein’s kid– disgusting and childish, but not a threat.
I’m simply saying it would have been classier to simply condemn Frisch and leave the partisanship for another post. Instead, Gavin’s point about Frisch was to make a partisan point. And you do the same, Steve, by saying “you have to pick a partisan fight� and buttressing your accusation directed at *me* with examples of what other people have said.
Mine was really an ethical point and not a partisan one. That’s a distinction that’s easy to lose these days, because there’s such a shortage of universal language markers in play with which to measure people’s actions and intentions.
This is a bigger subject, really.
DocAmazing,
Did I say I needed a link to find Feministe? No. Instead, I said I found no link to substantiate the charge that Goldstein threatened to rape someone’s sister. So I’m asking again. People keep pointing me to places that aren’t helpful (“Look at the top of the thread!” or “Use Google!”). How about a link?
I’m simply saying it would have been classier to simply condemn Frisch and leave the partisanship for another post. Instead, Gavin’s point about Frisch was to make a partisan point. And you do the same, Steve, by saying “you have to pick a partisan fight� and buttressing your accusation directed at *me* with examples of what other people have said.
Well of course I do the same. That’s because my entire point was that it’s silly to feel an obligation to “rise above partisanship” when you are currently the subject of partisan attacks. If Goldstein and friends hadn’t tried to tie this woman to the entire political Left, then yeah, it would have been perfectly reasonable to expect the lefty blogs to avoid partisanship in addressing it. But that’s not how it went down, which is unsurprising, because the whole thing would just be another “crazy troll on someone’s blog” incident if not for the partisanship angle. And even if you, Patterico, have not been guilty of partisan attacks, that doesn’t really alter the equation because the lefty blogs who addressed this in a partisan fashion weren’t responding to you. They were responding to righties who chose to make this a partisan issue.
What you’ve set up for liberals is a Hobson’s choice where they can either ignore the nasty partisan attacks aimed their way and simply condemn the crazy person as they’ve been commanded to, which will surely score them points on the giant Classiness Scoreboard in the sky, or else they can remain silent and, guess what, receive even more partisan attacks because their silence surely must mean they approve of the gross behavior. Let’s keep in mind, that’s why Confederate Yankee and his buddies tried to make this into a partisan issue. Not because people on the Left were cheering Frisch on. It was because they had the “audacity” to say nothing about it!
See, the thing is, you’d have to be nuts to think there is any kind of actual partisan divide regarding whether this behavior is acceptable or not. It’s like when there’s a news story about some Iraqi schoolchildren getting killed and I have to read a comment like “oh, the lefties must be smiling at all the bad news!” It’s sick, and no, I’m not going to “rise above partisanship” to ignore the disgusting insult and clarify that no, I am not in fact in favor of Iraqi schoolchildren getting killed.
I’m simply saying it would have been classier to simply condemn Frisch and leave the partisanship for another post.
Gavin, we’d all be so much better off if you’d listen to Paterico, the class police, and try to class up your snark a little. Let’s see, who can we use as an example of a blogger with class? Well, how about Jeff Goldstein? Yeah, that’s the ticket. And Yoshida! Swanky-Blogger classy global. Yeah, that’s what you should do. You should carefully study these classy denizens of right blogistan to improve the, er, yeah, QUALITY of Sadly, No. Before you know it, you’ll be classily outing anonymous commenters, politely and gently slapping people with your cock and elegantly putting your digits in the dog.
That’s it, I’m going to turn this box off and go swimming. Then I’m going to come back and have a couple of scotches. Then, and only then, will I open my browser and, with great trepidation, check to see if there is a new topic at my favorite, albeit classless, lefty blog…
mikey
“Actually, it is factually inaccurate to say that Goldstein threatened to rape someone’s sister. He did make a vile, gutter-schoolyard comment about having touched someone’s sister in her private places. It is not clear if the sister in question was a child or an adult, but it was pretty crass nonetheless.”
Now, that’s what I thought!
Jeff makes crass comments all the time. Place them in context, and a lot of them come across as funny to me as well. Your mileage may vary.
But I have never heard of him threatening someone’s child.
And make no mistake: in context, they are threats. If I say that it wouldn’t bother me at all if someone were to shoot your son, and I couple that with taunting inquiries about the age and gender of your son, and note that I know what state you live in — all in the context of a nasty disagreement — that comes across to me as pretty damn threatening.
If someone says “It sure would be a shame if someone shot you” it matters whether the person is someone who is mad at you, versus your wife reading a story about someone else’s husband being shot. It’s tone. It’s context. And these were threats to someone else’s child.
You show me Jeff did that, I’ll condemn it.
No. Instead, I said I found no link to substantiate the charge that Goldstein threatened to rape someone’s sister
I find no link to substantiate your charge that someone charged Goldstein with threatening to rape someone’s sister. It’s not semantics to ask whether someone actually made such an accusation.
Jeff makes crass comments all the time. Place them in context, and a lot of them come across as funny to me as well. –Patterico
How ’bout the sister-fondling comment? Was that funny to you? Maybe the context made it hilarious.
But I have never heard of him threatening someone’s child.
See, now here’s where the disconnect happens. Frisch DID NOT threaten anyone’s child. She was being a mean, cold bitch, and a childish one at that, but to threaten someone is to say “I am going to do something to you.” Saying “I wouldn’t care if something happened to you” is not the same thing.
This hair-splitting is really fucking stupid. We know what we’re talking about here. This is a trumped-up, bullshit non-story, and I’m done with it. Some people are just really fucking dense and will never get it. If Goldstein was really concerned with the safety of his kid, he wouldn’t have publicized this story in this way, I fucking guarantee you that. This was a golden opportunity for Dickslap to make himself a victim, and he’s milking it to the hilt. Maybe if he didn’t talk about slapping his cock in people’s faces and molesting people’s sisters this kind of shit wouldn’t happen to him. Y’know, karma and all.
This hair-splitting is really fucking stupid. We know what we’re talking about here. This is a trumped-up, bullshit non-story, and I’m done with it. Some people are just really fucking dense and will never get it. If Goldstein was really concerned with the safety of his kid, he wouldn’t have publicized this story in this way, I fucking guarantee you that. This was a golden opportunity for Dickslap to make himself a victim, and he’s milking it to the hilt. Maybe if he didn’t talk about slapping his cock in people’s faces and molesting people’s sisters this kind of shit wouldn’t happen to him. Y’know, karma and all.
Exactly. Contrast with Thers who shut his blog down immediately when Goldstein outted him and his commenters left that remark about “cock-sucking lips” about his one-year-old. But of course to Patterico, that was humorous.
Double standard bullshit.
JK47,
Context. Do you have a child? If I said: “It sure would be a shame if your child got shot. Or strangled. Actually, it wouldn’t bother me a bit if someone strangled your child. By the way, your child is a girl? And she’s five? And she goes to Wayside Elementary? Is this a picture of her? How interesting! Her neck looks so easy to snap! I sure hope nobody else does that!”
See, vile comments like that would not be a threat — literally. But in context, they would be.
Context is very important.
Yeah, but more to the point – does Jeff Goldstein cockslap his own child? Shouldn’t that be grounds from taking the kid away?
Disturbing if true.
“Contrast with Thers who shut his blog down immediately when Goldstein outted him and his commenters left that remark about “cock-sucking lipsâ€? about his one-year-old. But of course to Patterico, that was humorous.”
A lie. I try to ignore this guy, but others should know that that statement is a dirty lie. I never said or impled that was humorous in any way. I’m told most of Goldstein’s commenters were equally appalled.
Liar.
Context is very important.
Translation of the Patterico Code: If Jeff Goldstein or his commenters say it, “context” renders it benign (and humorous, and genius wordcraft from the preeminent litterateur of the blogosphere); if a Lefty says it, “context” inevitably renders it malicious.
gavin, see what i mean about people not being able read here?
i said, “my fight with roobart sbunsar”. how could that pic of roobart be me?
ha ha, you WISH you could attract trolls of my caliber! i’ve trolled jihaadwatch and althouse, as well as dKos and feministe. 😉
frankly, you aren’t worthy.
but i still would like to know what you think of this youtube.
you can’t ignore it forever.
Translate this, anonymous asshole: you are a liar.
What I find interesting is that if a lefty blog were to make the entirely-reasonable point made by Patterico above, to wit, that a nasty Internet flame is not necessarily a “threat” even if you mention someone’s family member, they would be smeared far and wide as members of the “Toddler-Threatening Left.”
What does Jeff himself say? Does he feel threatened?
What is wrong with Jeff Goldstein? Why does he refuse to unequivably condemn the threats against Jeff Goldstein? Why must he try to minimize the threatening nature of the Toddler-Threatening Left?
Look, you can make as much or as little of this kind of thing as you want. Remember when Jeff used to make funny posts about his anti-anxiety medication, and various Lefty sites made cracks about him being “off his meds” and so forth? To them, they probably thought it was a harmless gibe, the sort of thing that happens every day in the blogosphere (and Goldstein, in fact, simply responded in kind). But to the more overwrought righties out there, this was a case of “mocking the mentally ill.” Come on. (Of course, I realize that by bringing up Josh Trevino, I’m picking the low-hanging fruit.)
Reasonable people get that this is all bullshit, that this Frisch person is just some random crank who went way over the line in a flame war with Goldstein, and that’s it, really. But what are we to think, when literally dozens of righty blogs all jump to pick up the meme that Deborah Frisch is typical of the Left, or that the Left all must support her because they haven’t blogged about her? (???) Is it really that unfair to roll our eyes and pen a partisan rejoinder?
A lie. I try to ignore this guy, but others should know that that statement is a dirty lie. I never said or impled that was humorous in any way. I’m told most of Goldstein’s commenters were equally appalled.
Liar.
More accurately, you studiously avoided mention of it, an absolute moral equivalent, this whole time. Because, you know, it totally blows up your bullshit Goldstein=good, Frisch=Bad formula.
Who said this?
“One of the main findings of psychology is that perception is extremely context dependent.”
That would be Frisch.
http://debfrisch.com/archives/2005/04/jane_bond.html
I’m told most of Goldstein’s commenters were equally appalled.
“I’m told.” Heh.
gavin, see what i mean about people not being able read here?
He knew it wasn’t you, dear. He was making what is sometimes referred to as a joke. Gavin is known to make those from time to time.
“What does Jeff himself say? Does he feel threatened?”
How about his wife? You think she’s aware of this?
More accurately, you are a liar.
You don’t just get to throw out some goddamn lie and act like you didn’t by saying “More accurately” and saying some other goddamn thing.
Translate this, anonymous asshole: you are a liar.
Oooh. Just a little pinprick!
How’s this: You wholly excused Jeff Goldstein’s and PW commenters’ violent and sexually threatening posts as humorous.
That makes someone a liar, but it’s not me.
So… STFU. Or condemn Goldstein as strongly as you ahve condemned Frisch. ASAP.
Steve:
“Of course, I realize that by bringing up Josh Trevino, I’m picking the low-hanging fruit.)”
And now you start with the gay-bashing. That’s so typical of the toddler-killing Left.
“‘I’m told. Heh.”
I don’t know anything about this Thersites thing. Every time I’ve looked into it, I see some post that is long on assertion and short on links. PW commenters have told me that some asshole PW commenter made a comment on Thersites’ blog that appalled them. They asked for the IP address to verify that it was a PW commenter and ban him. But it wasn’t provided and the blog was deleted. The evidence is gone. I am asking people on my own site for links with proof to what happened.
“What does Jeff himself say? Does he feel threatened?�
How about his wife? You think she’s aware of this?
Good question. I myself have often wondered if she knows what he gets up to all day long on the Internets. I mean, there she is, working her ass off to put food on her family, while Goldstein spends entire days at home, in front the computer, threatening to cock-slap total strangers, talking about fondling people’s sisters, “outing” the personal information of the wives of other bloggers who challenged him on literary theory, etc, etc.
Frankly, I would hope for the sake of Goldstein’s marriage, that she’s NOT aware of any of this horseshit.
Context. Do you have a child? If I said: “It sure would be a shame if your child got shot. Or strangled. Actually, it wouldn’t bother me a bit if someone strangled your child. By the way, your child is a girl? And she’s five? And she goes to Wayside Elementary? Is this a picture of her? How interesting! Her neck looks so easy to snap! I sure hope nobody else does that!�
That’s not what she said, though. You’re exagerrating and misrepresenting it. What she DID say was NOT a threat. Goldstein himself did not perceive it as a threat. You know how I know this? BECAUSE HE FUCKING SAID SO. He perceived it as an opportunity, and tried to make the most of it.
Call the civility police. Patterico is tossing f-bombs around.
I’m appalled—maybe even threatened, in this context.
Well then the next test will be to see how willfully gullible you are. These commenters were the same (and I do have links, jackass, in the post you linked to against which you defended Goldstein) who threatened to beat Kossacks with axe handles and threatened to gangbang liberal commenters and one, a Vercingetorix, even threatened to snuff a liberal if Goldstein would supply him gas money.
Now with that in mind, let’s see how quick you are to say that such wonderful people as Goldstein and his commenters are incapable of saying something that nasty about Thers’s kid. Given your hackulent display so far, I’m not betting the farm that you suddenly discover moral consistency, but then you may surprise me.
“‘I’m told. Heh.�
I don’t know anything about this Thersites thing. Every time I’ve looked into it, I see some post that is long on assertion and short on links. PW commenters have told me that some asshole PW commenter made a comment on Thersites’ blog that appalled them.
May I infer that you haven’t bothered to read the thread on Goldstein’s own site?
On second thought, don’t bother – he deletes and alters comments like crazy. I’m told.
They asked for the IP address to verify that it was a PW commenter and ban him. But it wasn’t provided and the blog was deleted.
The comments on Thers’s original site were Blogger. Blogger does not provide IP addresses. So stop spreading that crap around already, please.
It IS a shame that Thers took that blog down (though I don’t blame him under the circumstances) considering that it contained some of Goldstein’s most stellar performances, around the time of the first Eschacon get-together. Lots of ball-licking jokes and cracks about people’s weight. I’m sure you would have found hysterically funny, in context.
This is my last comment to you, Retardo (I can’t believe I just typed that): I just caught you in a blatant lie. Just now.
It was vile, too: a statement that I found “humorous” a comment about oral sex with a one-year-old.
It was, in fact, libelous. I’m not going to sue you, but I *could*. It was a flat-out falsehood.
I’m sure many of the folks here will back you up. After all, you share their politics and I don’t. You share their hatred of Jeff Goldstein and I don’t.
So you can make a completely libelous and outrageous comment about me — and just watch the folks line up to denounce . . . me.
You represent everything that is wrong with the blogosphere.
You represent everything that is wrong with the blogosphere. – Patterico to Retardo
LMAO! I’m sorry, but that’s just hilarious. In this context.
So much anger. Don’t you get to work that out in prelims and stuff?
Please tread carefully here Pattycake because actionable statements go both ways.
I linked and discussed the Thers situation in the original Goldstien post. IN REPLY to that post, you defended Goldstein generally on grounds of humor context genius wingnut literature etcetc ad nauseum. You DEFENDED him with NO caveats.
You may not realize what you did with that (but maybe when you do, it’ll explain my vehemence), but I suggest you begin to. Because it makes my statement/characterization very defensible.
I think everyone is missing the real question:
Is Ann Bartow offended?
“It was, in fact, libelous. I’m not going to sue you, but I *could*. It was a flat-out falsehood.”
No No,
DO!
please????
pretty pretty please?
just this once?
I think i have NY Law Firm’s number around here somewhere.
You tell me. Would you tell your wife? I wouldn’t.
What if my wife found out that Goldstein wanted to come to my house and slap his cock across my face? Would she feel threatened? I have no clue. She might not know that Goldstein is Master Of Teh Ironies, after all.
My point was not to try and minimize Frisch’s comments by arguing that they weren’t a “real” threat. I feel that’s a virtually irrelevant debate in this context. Instead, I was responding to your argument that when Jeff himself says offensive things, they aren’t “threats,” they’re just cutting edge wit, or something of the sort.
You like Jeff, I guess, so when someone says something nasty to him, your first thought is, how does he feel about this? How does his wife feel? But when Jeff tells “Tim” that he “touched his sister in her secret places,” it’s just rapier wit to you. When Jeff says he will arrange a meet-up with Kevin from Catch, and beat him like a bitch and slap his cock across Kevin’s face, he’s just engaging in a little bit of Internet repartee. But how did Kevin’s wife feel about that? Do you find it relevant? I’m guessing not.
Patterico,
I really don’t think it’s a good idea for Jeff to post a link to a picture of this woman, her partner & a young child on his front page.
Maybe you could talk to him? This story is getting people rather inflamed & thechild is clearly pictured.
Of course what she wrote was vile. But there’s a kid in that picture – it should be taken down. At the very minimum cover up the kid’s face!
—————-
About Thersites – what else do you need to know? I was involved in that “debate” from the begging.
As I understand what happened, blogger wouldn’t give the IP address without a supeona. Thers tried to calm that situation down, asking me and other commenters to stop commenting about it. I made two last posts on PW about the sexual threat and then stopped posting on Jeff’s site. And I apologized to Thers for inflaming the situation.
Quite frankly, the sexual insult had occured a week before the public outing of Thers & his wife.
At the point of that insult, I and other bloggers were no longer posting about the lit debate on PW, because things had become ridiculous and creepy. Thers and his family got threats about their children, which were turned over to the authorities.
Jeff decided to repost the personal information on the front page of his website because he was angry with commenters posting on his site from Eschaton. He claimed that Thers was making them post nasty things on his site, and in response he decided to post the personal information of Thers & his wife over and over again. This was after he had agreed to take down that information.
Jeff continued to post the personal information of Thers & his wife & their place of work any time a third party commenter wrote something about the situation. He front paged it several times.
In the context of the threats to the kids – this reposting of the information was alarming to me and others. I was worried that if I posted about the situation that Jeff would repost the private info.
In fact, after this site posted a long satire of Jeff, he again reposted the private information about Thers and Mary in retaliation.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he reposted the information in response to me. Thus – I never know if I should not speak about the situation for fear of causing a problem.
Any more questions?
This is my last comment to you, Retardo (I can’t believe I just typed that): I just caught you in a blatant lie. Just now.
It was vile, too: a statement that I found “humorous� a comment about oral sex with a one-year-old.
It was, in fact, libelous. I’m not going to sue you, but I *could*. It was a flat-out falsehood.
Weak. Now you’re getting desperate.
Oh no, not lawsuits again.
You have to wear a tie for those and show up places on time. I hate that whole aesthetic.
You have to wear a suit for those and show up places on time. I hate that whole aesthetic.
I love it! I get to ditch the flip-flops and bellbottoms and “CCCP” teeshirt for bourgeois clothes and feel like I’m finally part of society. Bring it on!
The comments on Thers’s original site were Blogger. Blogger does not provide IP addresses. So stop spreading that crap around already, please.
It IS a shame that Thers took that blog down (though I don’t blame him under the circumstances) considering that it contained some of Goldstein’s most stellar performances, around the time of the first Eschacon get-together.
And Thers did go to Blogger. He was disappointed in their lack of helpfulness with the situation.
Steve,
I think comments about children are different.
My impression is that Jeff’s cock-slapping comments are not meant entirely seriously; hence, the use of that imagery rather than simple threats to punch someone in the face, which sound more serious.
I’ll allow that he has talked about meeting up with people to beat them up, and those aren’t my favorite moments of his, but they always (correct me if I’m wrong) appear to be an invitation to mutual combat — “Meet me by the flagpole at 3 p.m.” — that sort of thing. I wouldn’t do it, but I don’t see it as a serious threat to engage in unwanted violence.
And the fact that you guys all seem to take threats of cock-slapping so seriously, I have to admit, does kind of crack me up. It just strikes me as so obviously ludicrous. Yet you all treat these comments so seriously.
I truly believe that dragging a two-year-old into it crosses a serious line. One that I don’t believe Jeff has crossed.
Show me the context of the taunt about touching a guy’s sister in secret places. Was the sister a minor? I’m guessing not. Strikes me as being one of those “I screwed your mom last night” type of comments. Silly and crass, sure. I’d love to see the context to see what he was responding to. But I’m guessing it had nothing to do with a minor.
Violence against, and sexual molestation of, small children just isn’t a laughing matter (nor is it a laughing matter to falsely claim that someone believes it is).
I’ve got a bunch of suits from my old job that I hopefully will never have to wear again, Retardo – I’d be more than happy to send a few your way.
I’ve got an adorable little red silk skirted number with the most darling bow and lace accents on the sleeves. They’re three-quarter length sleeves, too – a very fetching length.
I’ll even send you the red suede pumps to go with it if you like.
Of course, when I was feeling particularly saucy at work, I’d wear Cuban stockings with it. But I don’t know how well that would go over with the judge…they might think that is a little over the top.
And you’re on your own for the accessories.
So, basically what you’re saying, Pat, is that you get to decide when and where things become serious. And just you, because we’re obviously taking life too seriously to make distinctions as highly detailed as “talking about children in any context bad unless the right people say it, talking about molesting possible minor/adult siblings of commentators okay so long as the right people say it”.
In other words, you’re a fucking hypocrite, and are happy about it.
geoduck2,
Help me understand about the picture. It was in a newspaper. But you think, what, that Jeff’s commenters will now seek to harm the child because she is pictured? If there were a real concern there, I would try to intervene, but I’m not sure I understand the concern at this point.
Are there any links to actual evidence on this Thersites thing? If he front-paged it a bunch of times, surely you can provide me a link or two? I’ve tried to understand it before, but I have never seen a narrative that lays it out clearly with links that I can use to substantiate what is being said — especially something posted by someone who seems level-headed. You seem relatively level-headed to me.
Retardo Montalban said,
I love it! I get to ditch the flip-flops and bellbottoms and “CCCP� teeshirt for bourgeois clothes and feel like I’m finally part of society. Bring it on!
Am I right to speculate that you are not often accepted for jury duty?
Patt,
You mean, even though you, Jeff and the whole righty bunch didn’t get together and denounce the cocksucking-one-year-old comments repeatedly and en masse, it is nonetheless wrong to assume you approve of such comments or find them humorous?
Good. That means the assertion that lefty blogs support or defend Frisch in any way is a “goddamn lie”. I am so glad you are starting to listen to reason.
I’m not jumping the gun here, am I?
My impression is that Jeff’s cock-slapping comments are not meant entirely seriously;
I don’t think anyone actually takes them entirely seriously. I myself find them humorous, though not for the same reasons I think you do.
It’s even more humorous to watch, say, Tacitus getting up on his high horse to denounce the “vile ones” who make fun of Goldstein’s Klonopin use, whilst Goldstein is scurrying around the blogosphere wildly issuing cock-slapping threats.
Is threatening to show someone “where Jimmy Hoffa was buried” a “meet me at the flagpole” bit of bravado?
Is threatening to beat people with axe handles a duke-it-out bit of braggadocio?
Is asking Jesse Pandagon for his address so that Goldstein can knock on his door and beat the crap out of him a pure funny?
Goldstein, or a commenter form his site, said that Thers’ kid had “cocksucking lips”.
Now you can condemn Goldstein with the same stick you just used on Frisch or you can continue to be a laughingstock. Up to you. At least we’re consistent.
Was the sister a minor? I’m guessing not.
Of course you’re guessing not, because Dickslap is obviously your hero. Okay, what if it turns out the sister WAS a minor? Will you quit licking Goldstein’s arse then?
Violence against, and sexual molestation of, small children just isn’t a laughing matter (nor is it a laughing matter to falsely claim that someone believes it is).
Hey you wrote the Goldstein defense. Don’t blame me for taking you at your word.
Fof God’s sake, will no one think of the CHILDREN?
Patterico, you crack me up.
Ditch the pretese of even-handedness. It just ain’t workin’ for ya. Unless you’re really trying to bring the laffs.
Wow, Karen Schell got pwned here today. It was brutal. I don’t think she’ll be back.
“Oh no, not lawsuits again.
“You have to wear a tie for those and show up places on time. I hate that whole aesthetic.”
Gavin,
I said in plain English I’m not suing the guy, so don’t pretend I said the opposite. But the guy should be careful. One of these days he may run into someone who does resort to the courts in these types of situations.
For someone to claim I find a threat of oral sex on a one-year-old humorous is potentially actionable. If he’s that careless about his accusations, sooner or later he’ll pick a litigious target.
Funny how, when he makes such a vile accusation, everyone here does line up to defend him, just as I predicted. I’m sure there’s some rationalization for that, other than: hey, the right-winger is on *our* site, so we can gang up on him!
Steve,
I think comments about children are different.
All right. Point conceded. They are different. However, lest we forget, I wasn’t trying to defend Frisch’s comments in any way, shape or form.
My point above was that Goldstein’s friends derive great joy from applying a different standard to his own rhetoric as they apply to his adversaries. When someone makes a joke about his anxiety meds, they’re mocking a mental illness, oh no! But Goldstein can make comments at a similar level of maturity (like cock-slapping) and everyone suddenly gets that it’s all in good fun.
Every outrageous comment by Ann Coulter is just a joke, don’t you humor-impaired liberals get it? Every outrageous comment by Michael Moore is deadly serious, and it shows the moral depravity of the Left. And so on.
If folks on the Left are reluctant to condemn Frisch, whoever she is, for stepping over the line (I doubt they’re actually reluctant, I think they viewed it as an utter non-event), maybe it’s because they know that for every legitimate outrage, there will be a hundred faux outrages. No one likes to be an enabler.
Funny how, when he makes such a vile accusation, everyone here does line up to defend him, just as I predicted. I’m sure there’s some rationalization for that, other than: hey, the right-winger is on *our* site, so we can gang up on him!
Keep hanging onto that thin reed, amigo. It’s all you have left. Poor Patterico, he’s a victim too, what do you know. Whiny ass titty baby.
I’m advised, Patterico and Retardo, that this dispute can only end one way.
Bad video duel.
Patterico, you are challenged. (see previous posts for context.)
‘Tardo, do you still have that…cache of lovelies?
Patterico,
Help me understand about the picture. It was in a newspaper. But you think, what, that Jeff’s commenters will now seek to harm the child because she is pictured? If there were a real concern there, I would try to intervene, but I’m not sure I understand the concern at this point.
I think almost everybody who’s reading this car wreck is not dangerous. But this has been linked all over the internet, there’s a lot of anger here, and it only takes one nutso to create a tragedy.
I think most of the time people comment on that blog in a rhetorical style that is mostly just fun for the people involved. However, Jeff’s child was insulted and that kind of behavior does cause a lot of anger. It’s been linked all over the web.
I would be a lot more comfortable if somebody got that kid out of that picture. At least put a dark spot over her face, or something.
Are there any links to actual evidence on this Thersites thing? If he front-paged it a bunch of times, surely you can provide me a link or two? I’ve tried to understand it before, but I have never seen a narrative that lays it out clearly with links that I can use to substantiate what is being said — especially something posted by someone who seems level-headed. You seem relatively level-headed to me.
You mean on Protein Wisdom – the posts in which Jeff front paged the information? I’ll go look for the links and send them to your e-mail.
(Will you promise not to post any information that reveals the name or workplace or home town of Thers or his wife? I am trying not to cause more problems for them.)
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that LA County Deputy District Attorneys are not trained in California’s anti-SLAPP statute. It would be fun if he did sue you; he’d wind up paying for a shitload of 80s videos for you guys.
Yeah, I got a rationalization for you. Fuck your fucking passive-aggressive threats, sucko. Either fire off your legal eagles or shut the fuck up.
dgbellak,
Again, I’m told plenty of PW commenters did in fact condemn it. I certainly condemn any comment about oral sex being perpetrated on a one-year-old. That’s disgusting. But you folks seem to be acting like Jeff said that. As I understand it, it was some commenter on the site of a guy named thersites, and the commenter wasn’t Jeff. Am I right?
JK47,
“Okay, what if it turns out the sister WAS a minor?”
If the commenter told Jeff that his sister was a minor, and Jeff then talked about molesting her, I’ll be very surprised, and yes, I’ll condemn it. Somehow, I don’t think the facts will bear that out.
kc,
“I don’t think anyone actually takes them entirely seriously. I myself find them humorous, though not for the same reasons I think you do.”
It really sounds like a lot of you do. It’s like you don’t quite get the joke. The guy makes all these threats, but they’re so clearly not intended to be real threats, and the hint is that he talks about cock-slapping you. I just think it’s funny.
Oh spare me. You’d lose and you know it.
Again, real slow so even you can understand it:
I wrote about the Thers issue in a post that YOU linked to in which you proceeded to defend Goldstein from my charges on the grounds that his schtick is humorous.
So either you are falsifying your previous position or
You did not read the post you attacked.
Either way, you’re an idiot.
You mean, even though you, Jeff and the whole righty bunch didn’t get together and denounce the cocksucking-one-year-old comments repeatedly and en masse, it is nonetheless wrong to assume you approve of such comments or find them humorous?
Oh, they did better than not denouncing the comments. They suggested that Thers posted the threats himself, as a sympathy ploy!
I think, using the standards we have carefully and rigorously developed throughout the course of this comment thread, the onus was quite clearly on Goldstein to say that, while he had no way of knowing whether the threat came from one of his commentors, that sort of statement was way out of line and he unequivably condemns it.
From his failure to do so, we should conclude… what, exactly, I’m not sure. We haven’t reached a bipartisan consensus on that point yet.
I’m going to post some Patrick Swayze, gentlemen, as a warning shot.
My impression is that Jeff’s cock-slapping comments are not meant entirely seriously;
Well that dovetails nicely with the fact that nobody takes Jeffie-Boy seriously anyway…
The guy makes all these threats, but they’re so clearly not intended to be real threats, and the hint is that he talks about cock-slapping you. I just think it’s funny.
Patterico, I’d really like to respectfully and politely suggest that you might want to give this position some thought. Seriously, and sincerely.
Maybe it has something to do with the time I spent doing volunteer work on domestic violence hotlines, but I just can’t see anything even the slightest bit funny in it. And it seems like a lot of other people can’t, either.
It might be really helpful for you to reflect on why some people seem so creeped out by that particular JG oeuvre. Just a thought.
JK47,
“Whiny ass titty baby.”
OK, another commenter with whom it’s pointless to debate. I’m starting to figure out who’s who here.
Ex-Fed:
“I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that LA County Deputy District Attorneys are not trained in California’s anti-SLAPP statute. It would be fun if he did sue you; he’d wind up paying for a shitload of 80s videos for you guys.”
Dude, you’re having trouble reading plain English. I said I’m not suing the guy. I don’t run off to court over stupid crap like that. My point is, there are people who do. And I think they’d have a shot.
Ex-Fed, if I asserted that you find oral sex against a one-year-old humorous, do you not think that would be actionable? Can you explain why not? Especially if (as you point out) you were a Deputy D.A. (One who, by the way, is on vacation today.)
Steve,
“My point above was that Goldstein’s friends derive great joy from applying a different standard to his own rhetoric as they apply to his adversaries. When someone makes a joke about his anxiety meds, they’re mocking a mental illness, oh no! But Goldstein can make comments at a similar level of maturity (like cock-slapping) and everyone suddenly gets that it’s all in good fun.
“Every outrageous comment by Ann Coulter is just a joke, don’t you humor-impaired liberals get it? Every outrageous comment by Michael Moore is deadly serious, and it shows the moral depravity of the Left. And so on.”
I think you have a good point, as I’ve said. Early on, I fell into the easy trap of generalizing wacky lefty statements to the left. Then some lefty commenters called me on it, and I reflected on it. Now, I generalize them to the “fringe left” and try to explain that I recognize the existence of a fringe right.
And I see the face of the fringe right at times — as I did when I unequivocally condemned Ann Coulter’s violent “jokes” about the NYT, Justice Stevens, Bill Clinton, etc.
It really sounds like a lot of you do. It’s like you don’t quite get the joke.
I think, when you find yourself earnestly defending a bunch of cock-slapping comments, the joke’s on you. 😉
The guy makes all these threats, but they’re so clearly not intended to be real threats, and the hint is that he talks about cock-slapping you. I just think it’s funny.
It IS funny, though like I said, I don’t think we think it’s funny for the same reasons.
(For the record, I think Frisch was wrong, wrong, wrong, to say anything about Goldstein’s child. Leave the kids out of it. It seems like everyone here, including the blog hosts, feels the same way. )
Patt,
But you folks seem to be acting like Jeff said that.
And the whole right blogosphere is acting like we collectively said something about his 2-year-old. Why, it’s FUCKING INSANE, isn’t it?
I know you must be able to display 6 kinds of hypocrisy in a single breath in order to defend Goldstein, it’s just nerve-wracking to see it in action.
Steve,
“Oh, they did better than not denouncing the comments. They suggested that Thers posted the threats himself, as a sympathy ploy!”
Well, Steve, I don’t know. I just didn’t follow this stuff that closely. And nobody ever gives me the story in a clear fashion with links so I can understand it. At least, not anyone I trust to tell the story fairly.
Jillian,
“Patterico, I’d really like to respectfully and politely suggest that you might want to give this position some thought. Seriously, and sincerely.
“Maybe it has something to do with the time I spent doing volunteer work on domestic violence hotlines, but I just can’t see anything even the slightest bit funny in it. And it seems like a lot of other people can’t, either.”
Jillian, I take domestic violence very seriously. But I don’t see Jeff’s cock-slapping jokes as having anything to do with that.
Maybe you should talk to the commenters here who claim that nobody takes those comments seriously. Because apparently you do. Honestly, and I appreciate the politeness, really — there’s some of you who are being polite here and I appreciate that — but I really think they’re just jokes. Some of my own commenters think they’re stupid jokes. Most of the ones I’ve read, I happen to think are funny. But I like South Park and Beavis and Butthead too.
Ex-Fed, if I asserted that you find oral sex against a one-year-old humorous, do you not think that would be actionable?
I don’t recall anyone saying you found “oral sex against a one-year-old humorous.” Rather, if I understand correctly, Retardo is accurately pointing out that you have, in the past, defended JG’s rough sexual commentary, the cock-slapping threats and whatnot, as being humorous. Heck, you’re doing it right now.
Gavin,
“I’m advised, Patterico and Retardo, that this dispute can only end one way.
“Bad video duel.”
Heh. I don’t have a collection. I’d have to steal all mine from you.
geoduck2,
“(Will you promise not to post any information that reveals the name or workplace or home town of Thers or his wife? I am trying not to cause more problems for them.)”
Of course.
kc:
Here is the quote I objected to:
“Exactly. Contrast with Thers who shut his blog down immediately when Goldstein outted him and his commenters left that remark about “cock-sucking lipsâ€? about his one-year-old. But of course to Patterico, that was humorous.”
No, it wasn’t. I found it disgusting. And it was a lie to say I found it humorous.
Patt: I believe the problem in arguing that the statements that you find oral sex perpetrated upon a one-year old as funny are libel is that you would have to find someone who would reasonably believe that you do in fact find oral sex perpetrated on a one-year old as humorous.
This is why Falwell lost that libel case against Hustler. It wasn’t that Falwell never fucked a chicken or engaged in intercourse with his mother. But that the common reader wouldn’t reasonably believe it to be true.
kc and Ex-Fed,
See what I mean?
Patterico, I guess what I’m trying to say is that those sorts of comments have the potential to be funny IF they’re sooooooo over the top that no one could ever take them seriously. I’m thinking here about, say, some of the ridiculous stuff Monty Python would do about Adolf Hitler – the Python boys could say silly things about “Adolf Hilter” and the “National Bocialist party” without anyone getting worked up about it (*despite* the problem Britain was having with racists in the BNP at the time) because it was clearly over the top.
JG’s comments, alas, really aren’t over the top. Comments like his get used as real threats every day. It comes across as creepy and unbalanced. I’ve known far too many guys who think that sort of conduct is acceptable to ever think references to it can be funny. It really is almost as bad as joking about child rape – JG is joking about sexualized violence (if his comments are jokes), and that’s just not funny.
Call me a humorless feminist if you must – although I warn you that my stock response to that particular line is “Of course feminists have a sense of humor – most of us are still heterosexual!”. But threats which involve sexual acts with a degrading connotation just aren’t funny…not to anyone who’s ever dealt with a woman who’s had to live with those sorts of threats in her own house.
“Exactly. Contrast with Thers who shut his blog down immediately when Goldstein outted him and his commenters left that remark about “cock-sucking lips� about his one-year-old. But of course to Patterico, that was humorous.�
No, it wasn’t. I found it disgusting. And it was a lie to say I found it humorous.
Once again, you’re full of it.
The post that I wrote, that you defended on grounds of humor, referenced and quoted the Thers episode among a litany of other evidence of Goldstein’s depravity.
YOUR POST WAS WRITTEN AS A BLANKET DEFENSE OF GOLDSTEIN IN REFERENCE TO MY POST; which, in turn, entails perfectly what I said before.
So evidently you either did think it was humorous and are revising yourself, or you did not read through the post you defended Goldstein against.
Either way, you suck.
Did I just get used as an example when explaining libel to a fucking attorney?
Oooooh, I do not enjoy being used like that.
“Patt: I believe the problem in arguing that the statements that you find oral sex perpetrated upon a one-year old as funny are libel is that you would have to find someone who would reasonably believe that you do in fact find oral sex perpetrated on a one-year old as humorous.
“This is why Falwell lost that libel case against Hustler. It wasn’t that Falwell never fucked a chicken or engaged in intercourse with his mother. But that the common reader wouldn’t reasonably believe it to be true.”
No, he was seriously claiming that I found it humorous, and implying that I had said something to substantiate that accusation. That’s different from the Falwell case, which was satire. This wasn’t satire.
The guy should be more careful. Like I said, quite clearly, I’m not going to sue him. That’s not my style. I prefer to argue and provide facts. But there are people out there who will sue. And that was a libelous statement.
oooh! oooh!
*waves hand genki style*
pick my youtube, plz, gavin!
c’mon, you gonna hafta address this eventually–when do think Young Americans will hit the theaters? September 2006?
shouldn’t you have the this-is-just-propaganda speech ready?
OK, another commenter with whom it’s pointless to debate. I’m starting to figure out who’s who here.
This isn’t a debate. You say things, we make fun of them. That’s how it works. That’s really what Sadly, No is all about– laughing at dumb things said by shitheads, and you’ve kept us very busy today. We laugh so as not to cry, really, because there are so many of you. If you want debate, go elsewhere. This is Snarkfest ’06. Don’t be fodder.
This guy is a weird mix– self-righteous priggishness mixed with a love for cockslapping humor, all wrapped in a veneer of “I’m the real victim.” Persistent, though. You have to admire that.
Jillian,
“But threats which involve sexual acts with a degrading connotation just aren’t funny…not to anyone who’s ever dealt with a woman who’s had to live with those sorts of threats in her own house.”
But I think his threats are generally directed towards men, right?
Patkin,
You can see, can’t you, that this isn’t satire. The guy is still trying to make his case, even though I defended *Goldstein* and the disgusting comment in question wasn’t written by *Goldstein.* It’s quite a serious accusation, not satire.
It was not a libelous statement and you are a liar each time you state such as fact.
I’ve made the argument and you can’t rebut it; your BS accusations of libel are even more silly than Richard Perle’s. You’d even lose this suit in Britain.
[…] Let’s begin the fun: […]
I’m sorry I missed this discussion. I was out making my usual rounds of denouncing and condemning, although I’m thinking about cutting back on the condemning in order to really focus my energy on the denouncing. And on special occasions, I’m always good for a deploring or two.
Patterico, can you refute what Developmentally Challenged Montalban said — that he made a post that included that incident, that you responded to the post in general by saying Jeff is funny without elaboration about the one-year-old?
If you can’t, then you don’t have the ghost of a case. Of course, some moron attorney would file one for you. Or you could do it yourself. But that’s what the anti-SLAPP law is for — to bitchslap you down when you bring bogus libel claims and make you pay the defense’s attorney fees.
The whole “well, I wouldn’t sue, but someone might, so you guys should be careful” is silly and without substance. There’s nothing that any competent or honest attorney would sue for.
Why no, I can’t see. it’s all very humorous to me, so it must be satire. Haha, quite hilarious.
After all, isn’t that your defense for cock-slapping Jeff? That since you find it funny, it’s a joke, and therefore can’t be held as say, assault, threatening a person with injury or battery?
Well, Steve, I don’t know. I just didn’t follow this stuff that closely. And nobody ever gives me the story in a clear fashion with links so I can understand it. At least, not anyone I trust to tell the story fairly.
That’s fine, although I’m disappointed that you won’t take the word of myself, an anonymous guy on the Internet, for it. “Steve” is a pretty solid, trustworthy name, don’t you think?
Hotlinks to Jeff’s site seem to be nonfunctional today, but I think Majikthise had a fairly good summary of the whole flapdoodle. The Internet being what it is, perhaps someone will post it.
Imagine, for the sake of argument, that some of your more animated commentors (everybody has them) had followed you to this thread, instead of hanging you out to dry, the ingrates, and in the midst of a typical shit-slinging contest someone made a really nasty anonymous comment about Brad. No one knows who said it, mind you, but from the context it’s pretty apparent it’s one of your supporters in the argument.
You don’t own your commentors, assuming it was even one of your regular commentors as opposed to a supporter from somewhere else, but if it was a disgusting comment worthy of universal condemnation, I expect you would, in fact, condemn it, and say you hope no one from your blog would say such a nasty thing. Instead, Jeff sort of flew off the handle, focusing on the fact that Thers was on Blogger and couldn’t provide the IP address to speculate that hey, it might have been one of Thers’ own commentors who said it, or maybe Thers himself.
At some point, someone posted Thers’ personal information as a comment, and when Jeff was (apparently) away from the computer for a while a lot of Thers’ supporters started freaking out about the fact that he hadn’t deleted it. When Jeff came back, he did in fact delete the offending post, but Thers’ commentors (or maybe it was mostly the rabble from Eschaton at this point) wouldn’t leave it alone. So ultimately, Jeff completely flipped and posted Thers’ and his wife’s personal information himself, here there and everywhere.
Thers himself, mind you, had long since begged off by this point. So the irony of the whole thing is that Jeff took great offense at people trying to blame him for the sins of his ostensible commentors, so what does he do? He posts Thers’ personal information to punish him for the sins of his own ostensible commentors.
Seriously, at this point in the story, I’m ready to declare R.I.P. Blogosphere and call it a day. You?
All I can say is this.
One day, Mr Fatty put a congressman’s personal office phone number up on the big screen, so his fans could get through to him at work. Shameful, but taxpayer funded.
then, one other day very soon afterwards, Mister Rigteous sent out Mr. Fatty’s home address to his entire e-mail list. So his fans could focus on his family. Shameful, and dangerous.
see the difference?
Mr Fatty, is Michael Moore, of course. (Man, is HE FAT or what?)
Mr Righteous? James Dobson,
And on it goes. Frisch makes nasty comments, but did she give out Dickslap’s address?
On the other hand, giving out addresses seems to be all the rage among right-wing bloggers and commentors: STACLU, Malkin, Dickslap…
…and a guy from the DA’s office can’t quite see what the problem with that is.
Scary.
Ex-Fed,
“Patterico, can you refute what Developmentally Challenged Montalban said — that he made a post that included that incident, that you responded to the post in general by saying Jeff is funny without elaboration about the one-year-old?
“If you can’t, then you don’t have the ghost of a case. Of course, some moron attorney would file one for you. Or you could do it yourself. But that’s what the anti-SLAPP law is for — to bitchslap you down when you bring bogus libel claims and make you pay the defense’s attorney fees.”
Well, again, I wouldn’t sue. Not my style.
But: there was some several-thousand-word post about Goldstein. It did not allege that *Jeff Goldstein* made a comment about the one-year-old child. It also quoted, out of context, a bunch of Goldstein’s comments to hostile critics. I defended those comments as funny. I did not comment on SOME OTHER PERSON’S comment about a baby, or defend that person who made that comment in any way. There is no possible way to stretch my defense of *Goldstein* into a conclusion that I found “humorous” SOME OTHER PERSON’S comment about a baby.
It’s quite simply a lie. And the argument in support of it is transparently bogus. Surely you can see that.
Patterico,
I can’t find your e-mail address. You can e-mail me at HistoryGeeketteABD@gmail.com, or please tell me where to find the address.
(Yes, I am technologically incompetent.)
I was looking back at the site – and I can see why nobody can follow it. It’s a lot of information spread over at least 3 weeks.
My advice is to start with a post on May 30th, ’06 titled “Oh, my!” There are 12 pages of comments. That is the post right after the one in which a commenter outed Thers.
At first Jeff graciously erased the information. But then this happened on page 4 of the coments:
NTodd and this tena thing (who, despite numerous mentions of the fact still can’t seem to grasp that it was not me who posted Thersites’ info—and this despite her claims she holds a degree in law, which generally presumes on the part of the holder at least some ability to pay attention to important details before opening one’s stupid yap) are responding to my civility by keeping this drama ongoing.
It’s almost as if they are daring me to say fuck it, and just let the info fly!
Thersites should be alerted of this at once. Because his little attack dogs are starting to take up too much of my time. And I have better things to do, like, I dunno, teach a couple of ad hoc comp classes at Front Range Community College, if the mood strikes.
Posted by Jeff Goldstein | permalink
on 05/30 at 02:23 PM
And then this happened soon afterwards: Jeff was annoyed with posters like NTodd and tena who were upset about the private info. being posted late at night by another commenter. And people were still angry about the comment made by an annoymous commenter about the toddler. People on Eschaton were blamming PW commenters & that made Jeff quite mad. (That insult had been done about a week before & I’ll look for that stuff too.) I should probably mention that a lot of people met the child when she was just a baby, and personally know her – so when the insult happened, a lot of people had a visceral and very angry response.
Thers was not posting on PW at all at this point. He e-mailed Jeff asking him to remove the private information. NY Mary, to my knowledge, has never posted on PW. So this response is mostly to people from Eschaton who were posting on PW that morning.
Okay, that’s it. I’ve had it.
Until [full name I’ve redacted ] and [wife’s name] of [place of employment] in [home town] prove that one of my commenters made this comment about their kid—or else explain to their own commenters that coming over here and trying to tar my site with this offense is very bad form and will no longer be tolerated— [name] and [name] of [employment place] in [home town] can kiss my ass. [redacted info]
Tena—you are, without doubt, one of the stupidest people I have ever encountered in any forum. And you shouldn’t take that lightly, because I’ve spent several weeks now having to do battle on the finer points of interpretive theory with a bunch of [redacted] posing as [redacted].
All of you who are visiting from [name]’s may now assert your outrage. Because at least NOW it will be partially justified.
But if I’m going to take shit for something that I had no part of, I may as well reinterpret “private� to bracket out things that are readily available on a simple Google search and that information which has been posted freely by those who are now claiming to have been wronged.
I am tired of the moronic answers from [redacted] and his insipid claque who should have just admitted long ago that they were out of their depth. [name & place of employment0 for instance, still can’t differentiate between the procedure for making meaning and the procedure for interpreting. And I weary of repeating myself for his “delectation.�
Instead, we get things like this, from one of his faux intellectual sycophants: “”I can’t follow one fucking thing the Paste Eater says in this damn debate. I’m going to assume that is because he is so damn stupid he is incomprehensible.â€?
Well, tena, others have followed along just fine, and I’m certain that my language has been clear and concise, and all of my words and perspectives clearly delineated. So if you’re not following it at this point, I’m fairly certain that the problem may be with you. Unlikely as that may seem to someone with your obviously over-inflated sense of self.
And yet, you claim to be able to follow the incoherent, inconsistent, dithering ramblings of [name &place of employment]?
Maybe I’ve been going at this all wrong. Maybe it should be me sucking down the daiquiries.
Now. Fuck off, the lot of you.
Posted by Jeff Goldstein | permalink
on [redacted]
Let me know what else you’re interested in.
I expect you would, in fact, condemn it, and say you hope no one from your blog would say such a nasty thing. Instead, Jeff sort of flew off the handle, focusing on the fact that Thers was on Blogger and couldn’t provide the IP address to speculate that hey, it might have been one of Thers’ own commentors who said it, or maybe Thers himself.
This is what is really wierd about the whole thing. The insult happened a week before. By Memorial Day weekend that aspect of the situation had calmed down. Thers asked everyone to chill about it on his blog.
But a week later, when some anonymous commenter outed Thers on his blog, that morning people on Atrios got very upset about the outing. (Jeff had kind of been fanning the flames at that point about the lit debate, but people who had been debating with him (like me) were turned off by the child insult stuff.)
By that time everybody was upset and people started talking about the threatening insult again. Only the anger was magnified because Thers and his wife (wtf did she have to do with the whole thing anyways?) had been outed & they got threats & then Thers went to blogger & took down his blog.
[…] But I failed at one point. I blew a gasket when one of the principals there told an outright lie about me: that I found “humorous” a comment about oral sex with a one-year-old. I couldn’t let that stand, and that’s how you get drawn in. […]
Patterico:
Here is the quote I objected to:
“Exactly. Contrast with Thers who shut his blog down immediately when Goldstein outted him and his commenters left that remark about “cock-sucking lips� about his one-year-old. But of course to Patterico, that was humorous.�
No, it wasn’t. I found it disgusting.
OK, I see.
I also see that Retardo takes issue with your characterization of of the thing. And I don’t feel like re-reading the whole thing right this minute.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I still don’t think you have much of a defamation case. Context, y’know. Plus, can you imagine being deposed by Retardo’s defense attorney about your views on the relative humorousness of cyber-threats to cock-slap other bloggers? So it’s good that you’ve decided not to sue.
“I also see that Retardo takes issue with your characterization of of the thing. And I don’t feel like re-reading the whole thing right this minute.”
Heh. The comment’s right up there, and I copied and pasted it, but all of a sudden it’s too hard to scroll up to see your pal Retardo is a lying sack. Now we’re oh so weary of the conversation.
Such dedication to truth. How about just admitting he lied?
[…] Brad R. from the Council of Defiant Elders scooped up all the nuts and reminded them of three important facts. “First,” explained Brad “remember that this wolf was a lone wolf. It acted alone and without our knowledge. Second, many of us, once we received word of her attack, condemned it, despite what you wanted to hear. And finally, remember that Screech has bared his own teeth in a manner suggestive of sexual assault to others in the past. Is this really a reasonable battle you fight today?” […]
Does the anti-SLAPP statute preclude the cock-slapping?
When, oh God, when will this be over?
BTW, Retardo Montalban is the BEST. NAME. EVER.
Heh. The comment’s right up there, and I copied and pasted it, but all of a sudden it’s too hard to scroll up to see your pal Retardo is a lying sack. Now we’re oh so weary of the conversation.
Such dedication to truth. How about just admitting he lied?
Bejus. This will teach me to try to be civil to the likes of you. Look, you drama queen, I’ll admit he was inaccurate.
Now how about admitting that your pal Jeff is a cock-obsessed comment-trolling pervert. And admit that you defended him, after one of his drooling followers made a vile comment about another blogger’s daughter, and after Goldstein became unhinged in response to criticism and posted identifying information about the other blogger and about his wife.
And admit that YOU lied about the incident with Thersites.
And finally, admit that you’re a god-damned hypocrite.
Thanx.
For the Record:
I believe Patterico when he says that he did not approve or think it was funny that an anonymous commenter sexually threatened a two year old child.
Cross-posted from Inside Higher Education:
I was one of two other left-wing “trolls” in the comment threads at Protein Wisdom when Frisch, calling herself “southwestpaw”, began posting. The other is someone who calls himself “actus”. I enjoy engaging in conversation and debate with people with whom I disagree. I never post ad hominem attacks and I keep my language clean. It was clear from the instant Frisch appeared that she was going to run into trouble. Her posts were gross and offensive, and it was monumentally stupid to link to her own blog and use her real university email address.
That said, it was also clear that she was no threat. None of her comments were, in fact, “threats”, technically speaking; more importantly, her entire tone of voice was that of a pissed-off leftist who feels that murderous right-wing language has granted her a license to respond in kind, or worse. Protein Wisdom, the site, revels in its obscenity and in graphic sexual insults towards leftists, and Frisch clearly thought it fair to do the same to rightists. She was tone-deaf and reckless.
Here, however, is the thing. Prior to Frisch’s appearance, Goldstein had a long run-in with another troll, calling himself Lo Ping Wong. After an extensive exchange of mutual insults (many of the posters at PW are simply disgusting), Wong eventually said he hoped Goldstein’s kid turned out to be a “faggot”, using the term ironically (Wong is himself bisexual). Goldstein and fellow-PW’ers went nuclear in response, demanding apologies (which Wong provided), searching out Wong’s online autobiography and real name, and so on. They designated “bringing the kid into this” as a line in the sand, which would allow them to respond in any way they liked, including real-world retaliation, on the theory that mentioning Goldstein’s child constituted a possible real-world threat.
Frisch was aware of this, and, in her obnoxious you-dare-me-to-okay-fine-I-will fashion, she went ahead and insulted Goldstein’s child. The response was predictable, and Goldstein and PW’ers took clear pleasure in demolishing her and damaging her career.
I no longer post at PW; I’m afraid of what could happen to me on that site. Goldstein and his fellow commenters cannot be trusted to draw a distinction between online speech and real-world actions. Goldstein has the IP numbers of anyone who posts on his site, and he has repeatedly shown a willingness to hunt down more information about posters in an attempt to retaliate against them. If he doesn’t do it, he may share the info with a broader right-wing community, which will. My advice is to stay clear of that site, and any sites like it. Deb Frisch behaved incredibly stupidly, but there are no guarantees that what happened to her couldn’t happen to you.
BTW, “unequivably� means “no ifs, ands or buts�. Work with the concept for awhile
Um, Karen, I want to be your friend, so I’m begging you here, if you’ve ever used this word in conversation, just, um, don’t anymore. Spelling may not count but mispronounciation/making up words that are kind of like actual words sort of makes you look like a moron.
Well, Steve, I don’t know. I just didn’t follow this stuff that closely. And nobody ever gives me the story in a clear fashion with links so I can understand it. At least, not anyone I trust to tell the story fairly.
Patterico, follow the Bas-o-Matic links here. He’s my friend, but it’s all backed up with links. And read my remarks too.
I very sincerely tried hard to keep my kid out of this shit. Can we please from now on leave my kid out of this shit?
And Patterico, if you get a chance, ask Jeff why the fuck he thought it was so goddamn important to post my wife’s personal information like it was some sort of fucking trophy. The excuses there are flimsy and sad.
I called Jeff mean names. REALLY mean names. Eh. You are on record as saying you find it funny when he calls us on this side really mean names. So far, I have no beef.
But he also posted my name and place of employment, AND my wife’s. MY WIFE’S. Whose crime against him was to take her husband’s side in a few comments posts at his site. (And for the record, the justification JG has offered for all this is that we were “pretending to be university professors.” This is a lie. The Google caches are open. Anyone who wants to find where I or she made this claim, feel free to look.)
How about Frisch and Pasty just fuck already and get it over with? They’re made for each other. I’m sure that Mrs G will appreciate it.
Or, as Samuel Butler put it: ‘It was very good of God to let Carlyle and Mrs Carlyle marry one another and so make only two people miserable instead of four.’
Well, well, well. If it isn’t the esteemed ahem.
Did you ever bother to read anything further about the several centuries of absorption of Muslim principalities on the Malay peninsula into Thai hegemony, and about Thai efforts to pressure Muslims to assimilate going back at least to the early 20th century, as well as armed Muslim separatism starting in the ’60s (when Al-Qaeda wasn’t yet a gleam in any jihadi’s eye)?
Try googling “Muslim Thailand” and see what comes up on top. From globalsecurity.org. Oh – also, you have to actually read it to absorb the information contained. And then you can go down the list.
Gah. 229 comments, and counting. And an unpleasant percentage of them by flying monkey numbah 0ne hisself, Patterico. Bleargh! Good thing I didn’t waste my time readin’ ’em *all*.
So, by Jeff’s logic, if I say, “Stalin was almost as bad as Hitler” I’ve “gone to bat” for Hitler.
Not quite sure why such a stupid post requires 220-odd comments.
brooksfoe,
yes, I understand.
Was there any actual death threat in the postings? All of them that I read had Frisch telling Jeffy how she didn’t care whether he lived or died. Not nice but not a threat.
“And Patterico, if you get a chance, ask Jeff why the fuck he thought it was so goddamn important to post my wife’s personal information like it was some sort of fucking trophy. ”
Did you ask that of NTodd, Thirsty? And did you ask Mary why she posted your personal information at Live Journal? News flash: If your info is on the interweb, it ain’t private.
Lying crybaby.
“Was there any actual death threat in the postings?”
Ask geoduck2. Clearly there were expicit threats to rape and kill the child. Unless she’s a hypocrite…
If your info is on the interweb, it ain’t private.
but Pablo – All marriage records are already on the web. Anybody could find out the full name of anybody else’s spouse in three minutes.
[…] The Pattycake (”I’ll sue! — er, I could sue!”) distraction was great fun, but why bother with such a moron when I can go to the fount of wingnet stupidity and read the following: Lot’s of “advanced searchesâ€? today. Looks like “Retardo Montalbanâ€? at SN! is going to be putting together another of his “Adlerianâ€? analyses of me. […]
There’s also a question of intent involved. Why exactly does one post someone else’s home or work phone number, employer’s name, or home address…if not to facilitate and encourage harassment?
There are some people who believe that there should be no such thing as a private sphere, and that everything is fair game for political battle. Such people are called totalitarians.
News flash: If your info is on the interweb, it ain’t private.
Quite. How’s the search for willing sex-play partners going, Pabst Blue Ribbon?
Quite. How’s the search for willing sex-play partners going, Pabst Blue Ribbon?
eeeekkk!
(really, what else is there to say – except for …)
eeeekkkk!
Brilliant rationalization, by the way. “If I can find your info, then it wasn’t private to begin with!”
Patterico1: “And I see the face of the fringe right at times — as I did when I unequivocally condemned Ann Coulter’s violent “jokesâ€? about the NYT, Justice Stevens, Bill Clinton, etc.”
Patterico2: “I am biting down on my rage right now. I’ll resist the temptation to say Ann Coulter was right about where Timothy McVeigh should have gone with his truck bomb. I’ll say only this: it’s becoming increasingly clear to me that the people at the New York Times are not just biased media folks whose antics can be laughed off. They are actually dangerous.” 6/22/06
And when commenter CraigC wrote in response: “Here’s the little missive I sent:
You disgusting, despicable, self-absorbed little pricks. I wouldn’t piss on any of you if you were on fire. I hope that when the 7th-century animals pull off the next attack that’s successful because of the effective, legal programs you assholes have exposed and rendered useless, the NYT building is the first place hit. Ann Coulter was right, McVeigh should have parked his truck in front of the Times building.
PIGS. FUCKING TREASONOUS PIGS.”
Patterico replied with: “I understand the emotion, believe me. I didn’t quite go the “Ann Coulter was rightâ€? route, but (as I said in the post) I understand the temptation. I, like you, am totally enraged.
I want to see an independent prosecutor looking into both the NYT and LAT stories.”
Unequivocal condemnation indeed.
Man, I just have to add that Patterico is a complete dumbass.
Why do these idiots have to throw around big sounding words like ‘libel’ and ‘treason’?
I think it might be because they have no defense for their asinine positions.
I *could* sue you? What a fucking MORAN.
Wow, nice detective work ‘m.croche’. What a freaking hypocrite.
Patterico, in my opinion you orally service goats…now please sue me you retarded asshat.
Jeff makes crass comments all the time. Place them in context, and a lot of them come across as funny to me as well. Your mileage may vary.
But I have never heard of him threatening someone’s child.
….
You show me Jeff did that, I’ll condemn it.
Hey, joking about sexual assault of someone who *might* be adult- that’s just damn funny! But sexual assault of someone *known* to be a child- that’s over the line.
Unless Jeff actually did it, in which case Im sure you’ll magically find the context makes it teh funny joke & write it off.
Was the sister a minor? I’m guessing not.
Welcome to wingnut-moral-relativism-land, where all of your potential moral issues are solved by guessing that they don’t exist. Is Patty concerned that his hero might have done something he professes to find abhorrent? Not at all! Instead, he’ll just guess that it didn’t happen and fuggetaboutit.
Are these the actions of someone who is horrified by flamewar sexual references? Sadly, no…
If the commenter told Jeff that his sister was a minor, and Jeff then talked about molesting her, I’ll be very surprised, and yes, I’ll condemn it. Somehow, I don’t think the facts will bear that out.
But not so concerned that you’ll lift a fucking finger to find out. And *please* don’t post asking someone else to look into this for you. If you gave half a rat’s ass about this issue that you’re so up in arms about, you’d fucking do it yourself. Twat.
Violence against, and sexual molestation of, small children just isn’t a laughing matter
But sexual assault against adults, your mileage may vary (an ugly sentiment that you offered up earlier). Sometimes, it’s just absurd and teh funny!
(I mean, for fucks sake, not including adults here is positively fucking sick. It’s like saying “raping white women, that’s over the line”, not understanding the necessary corrolary implied by adding the adjective).
Funny how, when [Retardo] makes such a vile accusation, everyone here does line up to defend him, just as I predicted.
Wow, you are teh psychic. You show up complaining about certain comments being out of bounds & folks not stepping up to denounce them, and when your offered an example of your own failure to denounce you swing and miss. Yes, most folks will gather round and giggle at your sorry ass- your predicting it ahead of time is truly sad. It’s like you *want* to be posterized- which explains what you’re doing here.
And leave your talk of lawsuits behind. Pretending that you’re trying to do Gavin a fucking *favor* because other folks might sue is twice as sad. There is nothing even potentially resembling a winnable lawsuit here. Hell, you probably know that, you just plain ran out of ground to defend & had to try to save face somehow- playing the noble victim. Trebly sad.
It really sounds like a lot of you do [believe Jeff’s threats of violence]. It’s like you don’t quite get the joke.
Oh, I get the sad, passive aggressive, wannabe-macho-man jokes. I think they’re indicative of a pathetic human being, and pretty much not funny- but I do get that he doesn’t have a tenth of the balls required to actually *do* any of this stuff.
What I don’t get is how someone who can type complete sentences, such as yourself, can compile such a whopping double-standard. People you like say crude, rude, threatening things = humor. People you don’t like etc = unacceptable discourse. WIth the imanginary line drawn in afterwards- Sexual assault of adults = teh funny. Graphic descriptions of beating adults to death = teh, teh funny! Threats against children = Ouch, my panties! In a wad!
In parting, I hope that your childen, should you have any, get anally raped…. when they turn 18! Now, that’s funny, huh?
(To reiterate: your position that the sexual assault of adults is funny is deranged, sick, sad, fucked-up, and morally retarded. That you take this position for the sole purpose of defending a blog-buddy is demonstrative of your complete lack of moral fiber. You worthless shitbag.)
Did you ask that of NTodd, Thirsty? And did you ask Mary why she posted your personal information at Live Journal? News flash: If your info is on the interweb, it ain’t private.
Just in the interest of complete honesty: I do not have a Live Journal page, and never have had one.
News flash: If your info is on the interweb, it ain’t private.
Pablo ain’t the brightest.
This is just too silly. Marital records in US cities are on the internet. (For example, google the “city name” in which you were married plus the phrase “marriage records.”)
So does this mean that the full name of the spouse is now public information which we should post all over the internet?
ayi, yi, yi.
Since we are talking about the context of posts making a difference, here’s one from Ms. Frisch from July 4 (several days before she made the “threats”) that puts her later posts into a better context.
DC: I’ve had enough fireworks for one 4th of July.
DF: Roger that, Dan. I’m not sure why I’m back, but here I am. I’m trolled out (well, as trolled out as a troll can ever be)and yet my email is STILL down (going on 24 hours – a very long time) and so the only way to satisfy this urge to verbally joust and spar is here, with you allegedly wise proteins.
I’ll tell you this much – if any of y’all start in again with inappropriate, disgusting, personal sexual comments, I’m outta here. Ciao. Adios. Kapish?
You wouldn’t tolerate it if some nasty troll started making jokes about Jeff’s children (saw the tyke reference in the post that started it all) being run over, kidnapped, etc. It’s over the line to make even vaguely threatening references to people’s real lives. So don’t do it anymore. Jeff, if you want me to perform as Professor Moonbat here at your zoo, you need to tell your pals there are rules. I’m going to take my tinfoil hat and kazoo somewhere else if you allow people to continue to try to diss me by referring to my body parts.
But if y’all can refrain from disgusting, inappropriate, quasi-sociopathic physical references, you can enjoy the benefits that accrue to metaphorical virtual zoos (e.g., blogs) with their VERY OWN MOONBATS.
Think about it.
That context makes it pretty clear that there was no threat and that Deb was trying to make a poitn about the baehavior of others at the site, but reading comprehension is not a strong suit of PW’s readers so it went completely over their head.
Should she have made the comments she did? No, and she agrees and has apologized.
Was she in any way threatening Jeff’s tyke? Not a chance.
And apparently spelling is not my strong suit 🙂
Patterico,
I rarely post here, and when I do I usually get an email from Gavin. I’m just going to go straight into attacks here b/c you annoy me and you’re not very funny. You are confirming my already-low opinion of the LA District Attorney’s Office. The fact that you’re even mentioning libel is just . . . well. You’re seem to be one of those criminal attorneys who’s used to getting the law handed to him by in digestible chunks at continuing education seminars. (Do you even have a Lexis pass? If you do, I’m sure it’s wasted).
OK, on to boring legal analysis – what Cooley apparently doesn’t bother teaching his DA’s. Here’s Retardo:
How’s this: You wholly excused Jeff Goldstein’s and PW commenters’ violent and sexually threatening posts as humorous..
So what’s the “fact” there that’s libelous? Retardo says that you “excused” the posts “as humorous.” He did not say you thought they were humorous. Check out the difference, one statement accusing Joe of thinking a statement funny, the other not (see if you can guess which is which):
Joe excused his daughter by explaining that she thought she was being funny by calling the old lady a brown-dress wearer (true crack-up joke by my dauther).
Joe thinks calling people {insert racist epithet] is hiiiiiilarity.
If I ever commit a crime, will you be my prosecutor? Also, please note that everything I’ve posted here is my opinion, and not meant to be taken as fact. You idiot.
[…] UPDATE: I couldn’t write anything on politics this evening. I wrote a couple of posts over on GFAFC and after that I tried to write something about Deb Frisch and Jeff Goldstein. What’s the use? We know those two deserve each other. They’re a perfect match. One made sick comments on the other’s blog, and the other has a reputation of habitually threatening to turkeyslap (an NC-17 term I’m using to describe Goldstein’s narcissistic fixation of his own phallus –read here, here, and here for more details) whomever disagrees with him. […]
[…] As we learned from the Goldstein Debacle, kids are 100% off limits. For example, despite being confronted with Jeff’s comments suggestive of female sexual assault in my Goldstein story, commenter Angie said: So yes, Jeff may have said some really nasty things and will continue to do so, but they were always directed at adults, he never crossed the line and directed them at someone’s child. […]