Your belief is truly nebulous and may cloud the thinking of the simple, but not those who think a little deeper. You are saying that they just ‘were’. There were male and female animals, male and female birds, male and female insects, male and female fish, and male and female human beings.

Wait. So he’s saying there are no gender differences, that we should be blind to them, and therefore gay marriage is fine?

God created the banana. Then, seeing it was lonely, He created the ripe peach.

Male and female bananas?

Every time I see that video, I expect him to start deep-throating the banana…

God created the banana. Then, seeing it was lonely, He created the ripe peach.

Fuzzy or shaved? And what about her melons?

Are all his comment threads like that? The beatdown is worse than pre-Schaivo Balloon Juice.

Oh, THAT guy.

Well, he’s right. That video is my nightmare.

Rather, it is Ray’s representation of himself as a tool. of God that’s far more troubling.

Fiqst

Your belief is truly nebulous and may cloud the thinking of the simple, but not those who think a little deeper. You are saying that they just ‘were’. There were male and female animals, male and female birds, male and female insects, male and female fish, and male and female human beings.

Your belief is in a childlike fairy tale for grownups. That would be okay with me if you didn’t deceive others with your meaningless eloquence, and at the same time poison them against the truth.

Truly a masterpiece of projection. Haven’t read anything that stupid since my Christian fundamentalist freshman year roommate furiously raged about the stupidity of Darwinists who were so naive they just believed anything they read in an old book. (Actual quote)

Interesting side note: a couple of years ago I worked on a kitchen remodel project for a couple; he was a retired Hollyweird writer who was one of the producers for Growing Pains. So they had these pictures of Kirk Cameron and cast hanging around the house. Which was weird in and of itself, because if you had been associated with that piece of shit, would you want anyone to know about it? So that vibe was there already.

Then, about 3 or 4 months after the project was finished, the paper here features this guy on the front page with a headline about how he’s been busted for…kiddie porn.

So now we know that Kirk spent his tender formative years under the watchful eye and tutelage of a pedophile, which may actually explain a lot, or maybe not, but either way….ewwwww.

So now we know that Kirk spent his tender formative years under the watchful eye and tutelage of a pedophile

That sure would explain why the kids on that show were always so perfect and never got into drugs or alcohol or fighting or sex or…

Quite wily of Mr. Comfort to call his blog “Atheist Central” to trick unsuspecting atheists to visit and be converted by his banana videos.

who were so naive they just believed anything they read in an old book.

But his book is older.

All their arguments boil down to some version of “but mine says eleven.”

Ignorance doesn’t even come close to describing it.

be converted by his banana videos hammock.

Fixed for less-likely but funnier reason

You are saying that they just ‘were’.

Atheists believe male and female, call them “Adam” and “Eve” for illustrative purposes, just appeared as if by magic! Boy howdy, he’s got us there.

just appeared as if by magic

I hate it when my man parts disappear by magic. 🙁

be converted by his banana videos hammock.

If he’s God’s tool, wouldn’t you expect a bigger hammock? Still, small voice speaks volumes, apparently. Tiny, tiny volumes.

Atheists believe male and female, call them “Adam” and “Eve” for illustrative purposes, just appeared as if by magic!

Boy, it’s a good thing atheists don’t believe in hermaphrodites!

Of course, I’d be able to fuck myself. For real.

I’m trying to wrap my brains around someone calling disbelief in anything supernatural a “fairy tale.”

I hate it when my man parts disappear by magic.

You married a witch, I see.

I hate it when my man parts disappear by magic. 🙁

I can only think of naughty responses to this. So, how ’bout them Red Sox? Only April and they’re already ruining my summah.

I’m trying to wrap my brains around someone calling disbelief in anything supernatural a “fairy tale.”

It’s a Klein bottle of logic.

Y’know, there is a hint of science envy in Ray Comfort’s stuff; I detect it in other fundamentalist religious tracts as well.

I mean, science is a tool. It’s pretty freaking good. Thus far it has won on every truth claim against religions that it has come up against.

I mean, it must suck, rooting for the losing team, like being a Nationals fan. You know that whatever the scientists are doing isn’t only a truth claim; the evidence that they are right is all around you every second. There’s nothing in the Bible (or any other religious text) that comes remotely close.

It’s too bad really. And the discussion in there is pretty funny. People have this idea that everything came from a single progenitor (or pair of them). The language analogy is a good one, I’ll have to steal that.

Or as one commenter has it there: “You say it’s true because it’s SCIENCE!” Well, duh, yes. You folks haven’t offered anything better. If you can build anything more sophisticated than a stne tool with the instructions in the Bible, be my guest. I’ll wait.

There’s nothing in the Bible (or any other religious text) that comes remotely close.

Dude. Some of us believe, mmmmK? Don’t go overboard.

But there isn’t anything in the Bible that comes remotely close. Belief is a different issue.

What are you talking about? I’d like to see your scientifical atheist instruction manual for what creatures that creepeth will land you in a lake of fire if you toss ’em on your charcoal grill for supper!

But there isn’t anything in the Bible that comes remotely close. Belief is a different issue.

If the Bible was a science book, I’d agree. But it’s not, it’s an article of faith. The position that somehow it should be held to that standard is as moronic as arguing that Emily Dickinson should be used to prove the existence of black holes.

He is right about something in that video. When I open a banana, nine times out of ten it doesn’t squirt in my face.

To put yourself into the mindset of a creationist, all you have to do is pretend you never heard of (or explicitly rejected) Occam’s Razor. If you do that, then most evolutionary arguments sound like stories about how the leopard got its spots.

“Why is it this way?” “Because it improved reproductive fitness and ensured wider gene propagation in new generations.” “Yeah, but WHY?” “Because it improved reproductive fitness and ensured wider gene propagation in new generations.” “Yeah, but WHY?” “Because it improved reproductive fitness and ensured wider gene propagation in new generations.” “You scientismists are just making it up!”

It is easy for me to understand such people because that’s what my brain does when I listen to evolutionary psychologists tell me women are naturally golddiggers who should stay home and make babies while men should go out, have lots of sex with strangers and make lots of money. “Yeah, but WHY?”

I don’t know who Raoul Rheits is but he didn’t answer the question of where sexual reproduction came from.

“You are saying that they just ‘were’. There were male and female animals”

He is correctly complaining about an inadequate reply that happened in previous posts. I don’t think that evolution being a fact depends on some internet commentor being right though.

If the Bible was a science book, I’d agree. But it’s not, it’s an article of faith.

Well, correct, and as such, it’s perfectly reasonable to say in reference to science “There’s nothing in the Bible (or any other religious text) that comes remotely close.”

Well, correct, and as such, it’s perfectly reasonable to say in reference to science “There’s nothing in the Bible (or any other religious text) that comes remotely close.”

It’s hard to say, however, that science has won on every claim so far.

Because there’s a doozy of an argument to make that the existence and elegance and beauty of the scientific method speaks to intelligent design. 😉

If you can build anything more sophisticated than a stne tool with the instructions in the Bible, be my guest.

Oh yeah? Well, it gives you instructions on how to build AN ARK! Beat that!

Now, where’s my cubitstick…

If the Bible was a science book, I’d agree. But it’s not, it’s an article of faith. The position that somehow it should be held to that standard is as moronic as arguing that Emily Dickinson should be used to prove the existence of black holes.

So why are you upset that someone is saying exactly that?

noen – don’t trust Comfort’s portrayal of Rheits’ explanation. Comfort cherry picks stuff all the time. As the comment thread on that Comfort post indicates, the evolutionary origin of sexual reproduction has been explained to him many, many times. He studiously ignores rigorous explanations, probably because he doesn’t understand them, is afraid they are right, or some combo of both.

So why are you upset that someone is saying exactly that?

Because that moron is holding religion to a scientific standard.

Because that moron is holding religion to a scientific standard.

You mean Comfort, I pray.

Because that moron is holding religion to a scientific standard.

Ray Comfort? He’s a Christian and entitled to approach his religion in the way he likes.

No, Reality Checker.

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/30427.html/comment-page-1#comment-1058093

Far more important than philosophical discussion is the sensual way he holds his banana, the loving caress of it and the obvious pleasure he takes in inserting his banana between his fingers. Now that’s God’s plan!

And then to bring his banana so close to his mouth in eager anticipation. . .

Excuse me while I go and peel my banana.

One banana, two banana,
Three banana, four,
Slap this chump upside the head
And throw him out the door.

Tra la la, la la la la…

I think the bigger problem is that all these discussion separate us. We’re all grasping at straws anyway so why bother especially when we have bananas that need peeling?

No, Reality Checker.

He’s a non-Christian and entitled to approach the religion in the way he likes.

My favorite sentence from his site:

Then [the atheist], in a bazaar self-conceit, proclaims himself wise.

You can get wisdom at bazaars? If only I knew, before wasting all that time in school…

He’s a non-Christian and entitled to approach the religion in the way he likes.

Which was precisely the same respect I asked of him.

Is that a problem for you?

That previous post made next to no sense. I need some coffee. And rubber cement. Feel free to add punctuation and subjects that agree with verbs.

noen – don’t trust Comfort’s portrayal of Rheits’ explanation.

And how. Incidentally, the very next comment is pretty comprehensive in terms of answering the question posed.

“noen – don’t trust Comfort’s portrayal of Rheits’ explanation. Comfort cherry picks stuff all the time”

You might be right as I have not read the whole exchange. I don’t really plan on it either, I have better things to do with my time.

My understanding of the origin of sexual reproduction though is that it predates multicellular organisms. It supposedly arose in eukaryotic cells in… I would guess during Precambrian times. Ray is correct that hermaphroditism doesn’t explain sexual reproduction because hermaphrodites already reproduce sexually.

I think it is probably a mistake to try to simplify some subjects too much but then this Ray character does seem like a real idiot.

Is that a problem for you?

My problem is I can’t get my parts to reappear!

My problem is I can’t get my parts to reappear!

Check the upper shelf in your wife’s closet.

Because there’s a doozy of an argument to make that the existence and elegance and beauty of the scientific method speaks to intelligent design.

Yes… the scientific method was indeed intelligently designed. By people.

the trouble for biblical literalists is that the Bible makes some claims for the origina of the world and cosmology and plants and animals; most of which have been contradicted by scientific inquiry. So in order to preserve the infallibility of the holy book, you have to disprove the scientific results. Science refuses to compete on the battleground of faith, since it’s outside of the realm of science, making it necessary for religion to sally forth into the scientific realm to do battle. Thus you wind up with the pseudo-scientific claptrap attempting to disprove actual science.

which would give anybody with intellectual consistency the bends. But the primary goal of people like Comfort is to maintain the supremacy of the Bible, and so it is enough to muddle the reality.

Because there’s a doozy of an argument to make that the existence and elegance and beauty of the scientific method speaks to intelligent design. 😉

I agree. since mankind designed the scientific method.

Yes… the scientific method was indeed intelligently designed. By people.

True, but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe…which wouldn’t happen in a creation of random chance.

curse you Rusty. I would have beat you if not for the blather.

True, but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe…which wouldn’t happen in a creation of random chance.

I mean, unless you’re going to posit that the universe itself was designed by man…

but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe

That’s a pretty big assumption.

but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe

That’s a pretty big assumption.

I’m not the one making that assumption. That’s an assumption science makes.

“the trouble for biblical literalists is that the Bible makes some claims for the origina of the world and cosmology and plants and animals; most of which have been contradicted by scientific inquiry. So in order to preserve the infallibility of the holy book, you have to disprove the scientific results. ”

I’d call that blasphemy. I mean, if I believed in a god, I’m agnostic but if I did I would call that worshiping the text. So Fundamentalists and other biblical literalists are committing blasphemy.

So Fundamentalists and other biblical literalists are committing blasphemy.

Can’t say I disagree. The defense of the Bible by calling it the inspired word of God is pretty stupid.

The rules of American football apply across the universe, too; otherwise what’s being played is not American football.

I’m not the one making that assumption. That’s an assumption science makes.

When? I think that’s “universal” as in all-encompassing, not Universe with stars and vacuums, no?

The position that somehow it should be held to that standard is as moronic as arguing that Emily Dickinson should be used to prove the existence of black holes. – actor212

Emily Dickinson, no. Poe, yes.

When? I think that’s “universal” as in all-encompassing, not Universe with stars and vacuums, no?

Are you suggesting that the speed of light in the Andromeda galaxy (as an example) is less than it is here?

Wow. That’s going to change everything we understand about the universe! It’s all back to square one and clubs and bearskin rugs!

And God. 🙂

Of course it would happen in a creation of random chance. In such a creation, the fewest and simplest rules would be the best rules. Great complexity results from the combining, recombining and compounding of a few simple rules.

No decent God would have put the reproductive organs and the waste organs so close together, but evolution first developed a simple hole in the middle of an organism, which eventually grew into a digestive system with a cloaca at its excretory end. Eventually the reproductive organs and the cloaca separated, leaving mammals with the plumbing we have today (I imagine that the actual process took rather longer and went through a few more permutations, but that’s the general trend).

So to say that God created all creatures in their perfection is just plain silly, a bit of willful ignorance.

Of course, what does all this have to do with the loving caress of a naked banana?

It’s hard to say, however, that science has won on every claim so far.

It’s hard to say that religion has won on any claim so far. It might be a good idea to separate your god from religion, which is a human institution riddled with silly and obvious contradictions, superstitions, nonsense, bogus “explanations,” and a history of–well, why go into it?

If you want to (or are compelled to) believe in something transcendent, fine. But why should it remotely resemble the anthropomorphization (I may have left out a syllable) we receive from a bunch of desert nomads in the Late Bronze Age? What else were they right about, vis a vis the world?

True, but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe…which wouldn’t happen in a creation of random chance.

Because? I think you’ve got the order mixed up:

1. Existence
2. Method of interpreting such, i.e. Teh Scientific Method
3. ???
4. Profit.

Thus the fact that the rules which Science binds itself to (what’s observable) applying across the whole Universe is a feature – intelligently designed – by Rusty Shackleford.

There is also the little problem, when relying on the Bible for manufacturing and assembly instructions, of it having pi be defined as exactly three.

I’m not the one making that assumption. That’s an assumption science makes.

When? I think that’s “universal” as in all-encompassing, not Universe with stars and vacuums, no?

Or, to put it scientifically…

BTW — as a “believer” myself, I agree that the fundies are being blasphemous.

I, for one, do not believe that my ass-hair was intelligently designed by an omnipotent and omniscient Creator.

I also love their, um, love of bananas: of course bananas are “intelligently designed” — do any of these yahoos know anything about what bananas that evolved in “nature” are like?

Because? I think you’ve got the order mixed up:

1. Existence
2. Method of interpreting such, i.e. Teh Scientific Method
3. ???
4. Profit.

Nope. I’m focusing on the first point.

Are you suggesting that the speed of light in the Andromeda galaxy (as an example) is less than it is here?

Light does slow down when entering our atmosphere, as well as in water. In a vacuum, that’s a Dust Buster of a different color!

Which was precisely the same respect I asked of him.

Is that a problem for you?

It’s not about respect at all and he shouldn’t respect you for being a Christian. You don’t have to respect him either. But calling him out for a sentence you agreed with was the standard funny Christian fainting fit.

“but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe

That’s a pretty big assumption.”

Presuppositionalists will argue that the regularity of physical and cosmological laws presuppose a uniformity in Nature and that since all presuppositions are equal we might just as well presuppose that God provides the uniformity that science assumes.

But this is really just begging the question since we then have to presuppose that God is uniform. It doesn’t really solve the problem.

Of course it would happen in a creation of random chance. In such a creation, the fewest and simplest rules would be the best rules.

Except…what rules govern? In a random inifinite universe, there will always be exceptions to those rules. Nature finds a way to test itself.

And yet, we’ve never found any (note that I’m not saying they don’t exist).

But this is really just begging the question since we then have to presuppose that God is uniform

Occam’s Razor: which is simpler to believe: a random infinite universe somehow coalesces to one set of rules, or a unitary being would effect those rules?

But calling him out for a sentence you agreed with was the standard funny Christian fainting fit.

Oh really? So me giving him notice that there are believers on this blog is somehow, in your small-minded worldview, the same as Ray Comfort showing off his banana?

LOL!

Too funny, honey.

Are you suggesting that the speed of light in the Andromeda galaxy (as an example) is less than it is here?

My understanding from reading The Trouble With Physics is that there are some results from deep-space telescopes that make it look like the inverse-square law of universal gravitation gets all funky when you are not deep inside a gravity well. (Whether these results mean what Smolin claims they might is not within my capacity to judge.)

This would, if true, be a strike at the assumption of universality, since Newton’s real genius was in proposing that experiments performed on earth might predict heavenly behaviours. However, the reaction of the scientific community would be more like, “HOLY SHIT THAT IS THE COOLEST THING EVER!!!!” than any kind of attempt at suppression.

Science when we’re right is boring. It’s when strange things happen that we advance.

If I say I talk to an invisible friend who is all-powerful, watches and approves/disapproves of my behavior, and orders the universe to my bidding and/or supplication, DSM-IV has me on a diet of thorazine.

Call that invisible guy ‘God’ and I get to walk free, maybe even start my own church and have old folks send me money.

Religion is a transmissible mental illness.

No decent God would have put the reproductive organs and the waste organs so close together – notjonathan

Just scroll down to “If God were an engineer”.

Light does slow down when entering our atmosphere, as well as in water. In a vacuum, that’s a Dust Buster of a different color!

And in an atmosphere in Andromeda of precisely the same composition, science demands that light will travel at the same speed, other things being equal.

Occam’s Razor: which is simpler to believe: a random infinite universe somehow coalesces to one set of rules, or a unitary being would effect those rules?

The first. The baggage associated with the unitary being is so big I bet even He can not lift it.

Commenting via iPhone so no quoting. In re the bibble’s claims being contradicted by science, one should first that many of the claims in the bibble are contradicted by other claims in the bibble. It’s Orwellian.

Science when we’re right is boring. It’s when strange things happen that we advance.

Well, yea. Quantum mechanics suggests that there are no rules, in point of fact. And yet, they seem to exist.

This is my point. It’s not even central to it.

Wait a minute – I intelligently designed the what now?

Why will there always be exceptions? Because God put them there to trip up the non-believers?

Perhaps there are exceptions in a random infinite multiverse, or perhaps there are other universes in which different rules apply.

For myself, I prefer to believe in the Heinleinian infinite solipsistic multiverse. There anything can happen.

So to say that God created all creatures in their perfection is just plain silly, a bit of willful ignorance.

Nobody here is saying that, NotJon. Nobody here, as far as I know, even believes that.

The infinite universe is easier because of that one set of rules. Although, I’m not ruling out that unitary being. But, the problem with that unitary being is that you have maroons like Comfort using junkscience to perpetuate their paychecks.

“a unitary being would effect those rules?”

Veiled PENIS reference.

Perhaps there are exceptions in a random infinite multiverse, or perhaps there are other universes in which different rules apply.

I’m tempted to get snarky and point out about a belief in a multiverse being as ludicrous as belief in a sky fairy: you can’t see or prove the existence of either.

But since I believe in multiverses, too…

It’s possible on that scalar that this universe could only possibly exist with the exact rules it has, and that other universes exist thru random chance that have different rules and we’ll never be able to comprehend the full dynamic and variety of them.

But none of that presupposes God or NoGod.

Well, yea. Quantum mechanics suggests that there are no rules – Actor212

Quantum Mechanics is like Outback Steakhouse?

But, the problem with that unitary being is that you have maroons like Comfort using junkscience to perpetuate their paychecks.

It’s embarassing as a Christian to have to be even remotely associated with a crackpot like that. It’s a little like being an American and having to explain a President Bush.

And in an atmosphere in Andromeda of precisely the same composition, science demands that light will travel at the same speed, other things being equal.

Yes, in an equally composed atmosphere, light travels the same speed in all galaxies — I was agreeing with you.

Although, in an alternate universe up could be down and my pants could be shorts!

one should first that many of the claims in the bibble are contradicted by other claims in the bibble. It’s Orwellian.

God’s psychotic, PeeJ. That’s a far simpler explanation.

Although, in an alternate universe up could be down and my pants could be shorts!

In this universe, I’m naked under my clothes!

Well, yea. Quantum mechanics suggests that there are no rules – Actor212

Quantum Mechanics is like Outback Steakhouse?

And the winner issssss…DAS.

I LoL’d so hard I got a glare from over yonder.

Oh really? So me giving him notice that there are believers on this blog is somehow, in your small-minded worldview, the same as Ray Comfort showing off his banana?

You gave him notice by disagreeing with a sentence you agreed with. That is funny.

Quantum Mechanics is like Outback Steakhouse?

You never noticed the resemblence a supernova has to the Bloomin’ Onion?

It’s embarassing as a Christian to have to be even remotely associated with a crackpot like that. It’s a little like being an American and having to explain a President Bush.

For that you have my heartfelt condolences. 95% of my family is right wing and looooved GWB so, I feel your pain. Liberals and Christians have similarities! And, yes, some liberals are Christians and visa versa. But you know whatimma sayin.

You gave him notice by disagreeing with a sentence you agreed with.

Why are you changing the goalposts, Subby? Why do you KEEP changing the goalposts? One might get the impression that you’ve decided to try to make this a personal argument between us, when I wasn’t even talking to you to begin with.

I never said I disagreed with him. I told him there are believers on this blog and to be careful.

Actor–does that mean you’re a Deist? That God created the universe with its rules and then let it go its own way?

You can’t really have it both ways–if God designed it and then let evolution happen, well, we’d have no way of knowing the First Cause (to bring up a term from some half-century ago Western Civ course), and so we’d still be stuck with using the only real tools we have to study the universe–the tools of science.

Stephen Crane posited that God designed the ship of the universe and set it afloat but forgot the rudder.

“This is my point. It’s not even central to it.”

The Decoherence Law of quantum wingnuttia states:

The process whereby the quantum-wingnut state of any right wing pundit is rapidly correlated with that of its environment in such a way that no measurement on the pundit alone can demonstrate any interference between PENIS and Cheeto states of the system.

hoo boy, I’m gonna have to wade in here.

In order to believe Biblical accounts of how things went down, you have to first believe that the Bible is, in fact, the word of God. We have scarce information as to how this information was communicated to mankind on all but a few occasions; fewer still are the occasions where God himself wrote anything down (the 10 commandments, which would have been 20 if Moses hadn’t gotten pissed off and broke one of the tablets. For that, we owe him our gratitude. Moses, that is.)

So you’re starting out with a difficult proposition at the get-go with this notion that the Bible is truth as directly handed down from God, because who was his scribe? It seems kind of important to know the details if you’re going to accept this one source as “the Truth” over and above all othere. And was that guy perfect, and were any of the guys who came along and copied his dictations from God? Because if they weren’t, and we pretty much know that they weren’t (there’s the Michaelangelo sculpture of Moses with horns, because at that time Christians in the west believed that Moses had horns…thanks to a translation error), then we’ve got another problem.

Then, you’ve got the whole problem of all the things related in the Bible that we know didn’t happen. A worldwide flood at any time since humans have been around. Evidence of creatures who lived a long time before there were people. And so on and so forth.

I can only come away with the conclusion that the Bible is an ancient text in which people ignorant of science attempt to explain their world and how it came into being. To their credit, they pretty much got the order of creation right, but then again, think about it: it would be hard to put the story in any other order – the heavens, the earth and so forth – because before you get to animals and people, they have to have a place to exist.

That’s not to say that it’s impossible that there is a creator, just that it’s less, rather than more, likely.

I don’t know if there’s a god or not; I lean heavily towards “not likely”, but there’s the remote possibility that one exists which I’ll allow because I can’t prove otherwise – just as the believers can’t prove in the affirmative.

That having been said, I think where most people come to blows is over the insistence of the “inerrant truth” of the Bible, which people like me completely reject and the true believers say they fully embrace, which, if true, means that they believe God is ok with slavery and a lot of other really bad things which most of us these days are decidely NOT ok with – we’re in the position of being better people than God himself if the “inerrant truth” position is adopted.

And to say that the “inerrant truth” hypothesis is utter bullshit is not to reject the entirety out-of-hand. A story that on the surface and in its details might be fiction can reveal truth. Jesus had a lot of good things to say, things that really would make the world much less of a shithole if people actually followed them. The problem we’ve got is that those are the things that are glossed over in favor of a few bits cut and pasted together that would suggest that God encourages us to be greedy and hateful bastards. But strip the whole Christ story down to its basics, and it’s one of the foundations of humanism: a powerful and moving story about one of those people who come along in every generation in every society, someone who stands up and says “this is all bullshit” and for his trouble is abused and killed by the people he was trying to help. In that context, Christ really WAS a savior who came to tell his people about how they were getting shafted and what they should do about it, and he really DID die for their sins, because they were faithless people who would turn on a dime on those who were trying to help them. Kind of like teabaggers’ hatred for liberals.

Which, ironically, may explain why such a large segment of the faithful can’t bring themselves around to thinking about the Bible in this way. It’s a mirror they don’t want to hold up to their own faces.

Bottom line: believe what you like, because I don’t have proof either way, either. But shoving something in my face and screaming about its “inerrancy” is every bit as offensive and rude as for me to tell you that you believe in a sky-fairy. Claiming “inerrancy” is claiming that you KNOW, and you don’t, any more than I do, and it’s a pretty revealing statement as well, which shows that you haven’t put any thought or any examination whatsoever into what you’re claiming you KNOW is true. I have at least done that much, and it’s the reason I can’t accept your claims.

There’s a reason it’s called “faith” instead of “fact”. Would that the true believers could grasp the distinction. By the same token, it would be nice if the non-believers could concede that there are some things of value and/or some deeper revealed truths in the book the true believers regard as “holy.”

I never said I disagreed with him. I told him there are believers on this blog and to be careful.

Ah, I stand corrected. It was indeed a fainting fit and not a disagreement that “There’s nothing in the Bible (or any other religious text) that comes remotely close” to science. Okey doke! Or was that overboard?

It’s much better to be an Agnostic. That way you don’t have to come up with answers to questions and accidentally piss off your friends. You just shrug and say “I dunno’. Works fer me.

Actor–does that mean you’re a Deist? That God created the universe with its rules and then let it go its own way?

If you mean am I Spinozan, yea, that would probably be the lion’s share of it. I think He still cares about people and that there is an afterlife, but I don’t believe he sits there and tells the angels when to make flowers bloom and such.

But, the problem with that unitary being is that you have maroons like Comfort using junkscience to perpetuate their paychecks.

I have, lately, imagined that unitary being doing a hell of a lot of facepalms.

Ah, I stand corrected. It was indeed a fainting fit

I’m not sure you comprehend, still. And I used small words for your benefit.

actor, you do realize that your (unnecessary) reminder that some here believe sure looks like a reaction to your particular ox being gored. You believe, others believe, that’s great. But there are people here who think that belief is silly. And silliness is here ever mocked. Does it change your belief in any way when it is found silly by those who don’t believe? Is everyone here who finds it silly to avoid saying so? To what end?

If mikey could put up with the Creed bashing, I think you can probably manage a more measured response to ridicule that questions your taste.

Creed bashing

Creed sucks.

You can’t really have it both ways–if God designed it and then let evolution happen, well, we’d have no way of knowing the First Cause (to bring up a term from some half-century ago Western Civ course), and so we’d still be stuck with using the only real tools we have to study the universe–the tools of science.

NotJon,

It astounds me that atheists (and I’m not singling you out…I’m having almost the same argument with a highly respected physicist from UCal) always resort to science to explain that there is no God.

Yes, I consider myself to be something of a scientist myself. It is, as you point out, a tool. God told us…it’s right there in Genesis…to take dominion over the earth.

That, to me, means “Go ahead and try and find out everything you can about the world, because the more you find out, the more in awe you’ll be of your own position in the universe”.

We’re never going to find “God” because He doesn’t want to be found. We’re never going to prove or disprove His existence because it’s not science-based. It’s a question of faith.

There are lots of things in the universe that exist, yet we’ll never be able to prove scientifically, like love or truth or beauty. Yet, no one doesn’t accept those exist, at least on some level.

I prefer to believe in God, not because of indoctrination, but because His existence makes sense to me, in the parts of the universe where science breaks down.

actor, you do realize that your (unnecessary) reminder that some here believe sure looks like a reaction to your particular ox being gored.

No. SASQ

If it appears that way, then it appears that way to people who could stand a a dose of humility.

The Ho has allowed me access to the computer so I can mention these two things:

I don’t know if posting this along with the Ray Comfort banananaNANANNA vid makes it better or worse.

Also, that bit about the “tab” at the ebnd for an openner? Not such a good one either. Chimps open bananas at the other end, in complete defiance of God’s natural law.
http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/168445/detail/

I humbly submit that nobody here needs to be warned to be careful about typing pretty uncontroversial statements.

“If you mean am I Spinozan, yea, that would probably be the lion’s share of it.”

Actor212 if you are Spinozean (is there a proper spelling?) then I think you’d really like Kvond’s blog Frames/Sing. Which is now closed (I didn’t know it and am surprised) but still I think I think many would really like it. Kvond is a *very* smart dude and has written a lot on Spinoza and also on Wittgenstein.

Sorry, but this is getting boring.

Let’s do Chuck!
Chuck Chuck bo buck, bonana fana fo…

I humbly submit that nobody here needs to be warned to be careful about typing pretty uncontroversial statements.

Uncontroversial. I think that word doesn’t mean what you want it to mean.

GoatBoy – you can name names.

Noen, I’ll have to check that out when I get past Wordsense, but thanks.

FEAR THE BANANA!

God-botherers don’t exactly have an awesome track-record when it comes to reacting to new discoveries, do they? Think about it: these are the same people who giggled at germ theory, guffawed at heliocentrism, & hooted at relativity … yeah, sorry, but that’s three strikes right there. Religions have some excellent content in regards to morality or ethics, but when it comes to science they’re a bad joke at best – & only a dipshit would expect anything better of them, considering their primitive origins.

Intelligent Design theory is fine & dandy … for non-sciencey things like macrame or origami, where it’s self-evident. It’s a non-starter in biology: making huge presuppositions is a major no-no, as is cherry-picking evidence or avoiding falsifiability.

There’s also that little “utility” thing going on. Evolutionary theory has given the world everything from the Human Genome Project to gene-therapy, & it shows every indication of continuing to offer major innovations & new areas for research indefinitely; ID theory can’t give the world jack-shit except a reason to go back to sacrificing livestock on full moons & consulting soothsayers & astrologers about economics & foreign policy.

It astounds me that atheists (and I’m not singling you out…I’m having almost the same argument with a highly respected physicist from UCal) always resort to science to explain that there is no God.

It astounds me that people who seem, in all other respects, to be intelligent, ratioanal folks, don’t understand the fallacy of “using science to explain there is no god.” And that other people don’t see that it is a fallacy.

It means the statement that triggered your whatever-it-is is one with which you later professed to agree. I think that falls under a consensus definition of the term.

Well, then, if an afterlife comforts you, that’s fine. In terms of belief, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I must say, though, that you’re not likely to find many converts here. It seems that all these liberals, like the esteemed Jennifer (not a snarky comment), are too busy trying to live the way that Christ preached to spend much time worrying about the fate of their souls (although I do remember coming home from school in the rain one day [the year would be 1950 or so, just to let you know that I am much older and thus presumably wiser] and telling my mother, “I just baptized my shoes!” She replied, “Oh reallly?” And I said, “Yes, I cleansed their soles!”).

Modern capital C Christians spend too much of their time thinking about the perfidy of unbelievers and not nearly enough of it thinking about giving aid to the least of their brethren.

And now it’s past my bedtime (we in the Far East dance to a different drummer, it seems), so I’ll not engage in these follies any more tonight.

Oyasumi.

Uncontroversial. I think that word doesn’t mean what you want it to mean.

Would it mean “a statement I agree with like, say, there’s nothing in the Bible (or any other religious text) that comes remotely close to science”?

consulting soothsayers & astrologers about economics & foreign policy

Look around. I’m not sure this wouldn’t be a step up from what we’ve got.

It means the statement that triggered your whatever-it-is is one with which you later professed to agree

So because I highlighted one statement that, while not controversial in itself, was indicative of an underlying possible intent to take it to territory that *might*, in fact, be controversial, given the demeaning tenor of the rest of his post, you don’t think I had the right to give him guidance that he might want to consider the feelings of others on the blog?

Interesting.

I’m not the one making that assumption. That’s an assumption science makes.

Ignoring the issues with that assertion, the big difference between the religious and scientific means of comprehending the world is that science allows (and encourages) its assumptions and beliefs to be falsified.

Science is wrong all the time. It’s just that science overall tends to recognize this fact, figure out why, then continue. Not so much the case with religion (I’m thinking specifically Abrahamic faiths).

It astounds me that people who seem, in all other respects, to be intelligent, ratioanal folks, don’t understand the fallacy of “using science to explain there is no god.”

I’m glad you agree it’s a fallacy.

e might want to consider the feelings of others on the blog?

Feelings? You mean my hands?

Quantum mechanics suggests that there are no rules, in point of fact. And yet, they seem to exist.

Ooh, I wouldn’t say that. There are rules. It’s just (ha ha. “just”) that we can’t express them in classic Newtonian certainties of direction and momentum. Of course, I think it was Feynman who said, “Nobody understands quantum mechanics.” But the experiments confirm the hypotheses.

In other words, the second half of your statement is true–they do seem to exist, because they do exist. But “we” are still unsure as to why, given all the attendant weirdness, they are what they are, and not something else.

I think.

Ignoring the issues with that assertion, the big difference between the religious and scientific means of comprehending the world is that science allows (and encourages) its assumptions and beliefs to be falsified.

Agreed. Science explains the world its way, religion in a different way.

It troubles me, as a Christian, that anyone would bother using religion to explain the secular world, like the egregious Falwell/Robertson sects who blame tragedies on teh ghey or voodoo.

Likewise, I wouldn’t expect science to explain God to me. The tools just aren’t there.

Feelings? You mean my hands?

Not gropings, bozo…

It troubles me, as a Christian, that anyone would bother using religion to explain the secular world, like the egregious Falwell/Robertson sects who blame tragedies on teh ghey or voodoo.

Thank you. That’s my problem with Comfort and his cohorts. Why do we all have to live under the umbrella of his belief system?

It all comes down to geography and gheys.

I’m glad you agree it’s a fallacy.

We agree, that’s good. But I must also say that aside from the impossibility of proving a negative, the really amusing part of that whole “science versus god” thing is that the scientific method relies utterly on empiricism while there is absolutely no conceivable reason to posit god in the first place.

Considering that the Bible isn’t nearly as old as the stories of Egypt, it’s obvious that the Bible is wrong. All evidence of intelligent design proves without a doubt that Geb and Nut provided the sky and the firmament.

After all, my book is older. And we built the fuckin pyramids.

Also, without the bible the only evidence of God is, well, nothing.

But we got the motherfuckin pyramids.

while there is absolutely no conceivable reason to posit god in the first place

Say you’re a caveman, and it’s what we woudl call Friday night, and you’re sitting with your significant other around the campfire…what would you call that flash of light across the sky that we know now as a meteor?

I think it’s in man’s nature to believe in something bigger than himself. How else would you explain people who “hang fourteen” on the internet?

Basically you’re saying ignorance is the reason for assigning fairy tale gods to explainable concepts? Classy.

I have to update on the ick I posted upthread about the TV producer.

I haven’t been following the local news closely, so when I googled it I saw the guy was sentenced to 7-1/2 years in the federal pen, a deal he got through a plea-bargain. After reading about what they found and things he had said to the undercover guy, I’m completely disgusted and wish this had all surfaced while the work on his house was going on, so I could have brained him with a prybar or something. This guy was 67 years old; he had started molesting kids when he was 13. He had pictures and videos of himself having sex with kids. From just the few things revealed in the article, there were at least 5 kids he had raped over the years and probably many more. He talked about turning a 9-year old girl into “a total slut.”

I have to go puke now.

Also, pyramids, bitch!

Yes… the scientific method was indeed intelligently designed. By people.

True, but the fact that those rules apply across all parts of the universe

The scientific method is not the same as physical laws.

…which wouldn’t happen in a creation of random chance.

So science can’t disprove the existence of God, but universal physical laws prove his existence because otherwise the universe would be random?

And dude, warning someone not to go overboard in making a statement he already made does kind of lead people to believe you thought the statement went overboard. When you later say you don’t disagree with the original statement you can’t be surprised if people ask why the warning.

FYWP.

Ate my post. Just one more note: can’t we get back to the story of one man and his banana?

Say you’re a caveman,

Okay. You’re a caveman. Apparently.

Okay … some great comments here, as well as some toes getting stepped upon all over the place.

Seems to me most of this boils down to a rather simple problem:

The Bible is a book, written by people, that is supposed to be used as a way to shape one’s personal philosophy and beliefs. It’s not a science book, a historically accurate text, or even a political document. Yet that’s exactly what it’s become throughout the centuries, much to the detriment of millions of people.

God and science need not clash if folks would just realize that they have their beliefs, and others have theirs … and accept that science (in a perfect world) doesn’t really give a shit about any of those beliefs.

If we ever get to a point where that acceptance and realization occur on a large scale, this world would be a lot better place …

We’re never going to find “God” because He doesn’t want to be found.

Have you checked under the sofa cushions? I find a lot of stuff there.

Likewise, I wouldn’t expect science to explain God to me. The tools just aren’t there.

Yet you invoked Occams Razor to justify a logical belief in the existence of God.

Holy fuck, Jennifer. 7 1/2 years for actual multiple child rape, while a couple days ago people linked stories of people being sent to prison for longer for having pictures they didn’t take, including drawings of acts/people that weren’t even real. TWENTY YEARS one of those people got.

And was it Slapstick that had a cult of Christians who were convinced that Jesus had returned and was actively hiding, and went around playing hida-and-seek with Son ‘O God?

BONUS FUN FACT: If you record the phrase “JESUS LOVES YOU” and play it backward, it sounds just like “WE SMELL SAUSAGE”.

For serious? I was gone all morning and this is the only entertainment y’all have for me when I get back? I hate fighting! At least get some moar POOP and PENIS up in here.

At least get some moar [. . .] PENIS up in here.

Now there’s a quote out of context.

At least get some moar [. . .] PENIS up in here.

Now there’s a quote out of context.

I almost wrote: “I need some more POOP and PENIS up in here.” Which is a) very suggestive, and b) very disgusting.

I would also like to refine the picture on quantum theory and such. It is important to understand the difference between the _theory_ and _interpetations of the theory_.

I am reminded of Schroedinger who, when asked what his famous equation meant about life or the world or whatever, replied “It’s just an equation.” The quantum theories are, every one of them, falsifiable. We do not have the technology, in many cases to do the experiments but they are, in principle, provable. There are many interpretations most of them contradictory in some way. As they ALL fit the theory, there is no possibility of saying which, if any, may be correct.

Yes, we have no bananas.

All this philosophy is driving me bananas.

I wish I were Carmen Miranda with bananas in my hat.

Come, Mr. Tally man, tally me bananas.

Maybe God is in the banana.

Or as the Japanese children’s song goes:

bananan, bananan, ba-na-a-na.

In fact, in a remarkable coincidence, bananas were on sale at the supermarket today, and I got a whole cut for 98 yen. Little did I know that the invisible hand of God, moving in mysterious ways, would guide me to this thread tonight.

T&U – there’s a very large green penis over at my place. And Peniskeeper dolls too.

tigris – he plead guilty which is apparently why he got a lighter sentence, plus I don’t think they can go after someone for stuff that happened what, 7 or more years ago, unless it’s murder. They did also sentence him to lifetime supervision after release. So when he gets out at age 75 they’ll still have him on a leash. But I can’t even begin to describe how repulsed I am. They had an adopted son – really nice kid, about 17 years old at the time the work was going on. I don’t even what to think about what that kid may have gone through.

Jennifer said,
April 20, 2010 at 17:51

Uh, I’m gonna need to puke, too. That last sentence is fucking horrifying.

Watch the video with the sound off from 7 seconds onward.

You get the feeling that Ray has intimate knowledge of banana shaped objects.

Thank you, Esteev. We should concentrate on the banana.

The rules of American football apply across the universe, too; otherwise what’s being played is not American football.

Finally, a tautology that explains the Oakland Raiders! Al Davis can resign now.

Have you infidels ever considered that the English langauge is just too well adapted to communication to have “evolved”, as some secular “linguists” would have you believe? The letters are too well suited to the words, and the shape of the letters can be fit to any surface and any type of writing! There’s even different styles of letters which enhance the communication!

Now, I ask you – did these letters somehow EVOLVE? From what’s taught in today’s Godless schools, innocent young minds are being programmed to think it somehow “changed” from the earliest days, when we NEVER see one language changing into another! And how could you communicate with only a few letters? The alphabet in all its majesty MUST have been created, all at once.

In that spirit I’d like to introduce the concept of Linguocreationism, which I will be expounding on in a $69.95 set of lecture tapes with a $15 workbook that’s sold separately…

“Linguocreationism – because if it was good enough to write the Bible in, it MUST be created!”

“”The light at the end of the tunnel is not an illusion. The banana is.”

Basically you’re saying ignorance is the reason for assigning fairy tale gods to explainable concepts? Classy.

If you presume the non-existence of God, then yea. And yea, for the “classy” bit.

But I don’t make that presumption.

California has “a 10 year statute of limitations for child molestation. HOWEVER, the crime can also be prosecuted within one year of WHENEVER a victim tells the police (even past the 10 year mark).” He got off WAY too easily. I think most states have extended SOL for molestation, plus there are rules about when the limitation clock actually starts vs when the crime actually happened, because some children are so traumatized.

Maybe God is in the banana.

No, but he is in the peel. Also in the letter K. God is a Borscht Belt comic.

Linguocreationism

A pasta cookbook?

Yet you invoked Occams Razor to justify a logical belief in the existence of God.

It doesn’t hurt to play in the same sandbox as your friends sometimes.

Have you checked under the sofa cushions? I find a lot of stuff there.

I’m hoping I’ll find my glasses before I find God. But if he’s in the sofa cushions, it would explain why I never find loose change in there, the thieving bastard.

Pere’s linguistic theory proves that all roads do indeed lead to Noam.

tigris – in that case let’s hope some of his victims come forward. They only caught him because he was sending child porn over the internets – I don’t think from what I read that any of his victims were identified. So they have evidence from his uncorroborated statements and the videos and photos they found of him with kids – but don’t know who those kids are.

He was out in California up until about 3 years ago, so that’s where a lot of this would have gone on…with CA law being what it is, hopefully one or more of the kids he molested will find out about his conviction and come forward. They can always send him back to trial with additional charges.

And in an atmosphere in Andromeda of precisely the same composition, science demands that light will travel at the same speed, other things being equal.

Well, just for accuracy’s sake, not really. Science doesn’t demand anything like that. In order to study the world, science posits that, absent evidence to the contrary, it makes the most sense (and results in stuff like computers and intertrons and edible bananas) to assume such. Science, unlike religion, is willing and perfectly capable of dealing with evidence to the contrary.

Science, unlike religion, is willing and perfectly capable of dealing with evidence to the contrary.

Don’t for get liberalism.

Hey, Chuck, we got some Believers out there!

I can verify from personal experience there was no god in the 3 bottles of Rolling Rock I drank on Saturday night. Nor was there any evidence of god in the rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister. No truth or beauty either.

This seems like such a useless exercise; this arguing with or about evolution versus the bible. We certainly don’t expend ridiculous amounts of time arguing the about whether or not Shiva had a hand in the whole thing or some other god from somewhere else.

Our culture is so based on this christian thing we just can’t seem to stop chewing that old piece of gum. Frankly, the flavor wore out for me a long time ago and I deposited that old piece of rubber on the underside of a church basement potluck table somewhere in my teen years.

I don’t study science as I have other things to do and I’m confident in the ability of others to do that job and I no longer feel the need to argue or convince the superstitious that there aren’t fairies in the clouds keeping notes on their compliance and deciding their entrance into that great country club in the sky.

To hell with them all. They can believe whatever the hell they want except when they wish to impinge on my liberties, tell girls they are dirty and worthless or some other hogwash. Then I just wish to get them out of the way and back in the church basement where they belong.

Ray can peel all the damn bananas he wants, which by the way, I read somewhere were doomed to disappear because there exists a virus that may wipe them out and they have no natural defenses.

That damn science stuff again.

Weasel POOP.

And plus also,

the pineapple. More proof and such. exactly my point.

I read somewhere were doomed to disappear because there exists a virus that may wipe them out and they have no natural defenses.

It’s because of monoculture; Cavendish bananas are prevented from going to seed, so all propagation is done by suckering, which means every plant in a plantation(and apparently every plant in every plantation) is a clone, all with the exactly the same susceptibilities.

consider the feelings of others on the blog?

Way way more sympathy for the anti-fat-joke argument than for the “don’t attack my silly idea” argument.

It doesn’t hurt to play in the same sandbox as your friends sometimes.
I hate to tell you this, but that’s actually a litter box.

It doesn’t hurt to play in the same sandbox as your friends sometimes.

Sandbox is not for POOPing. Unless you’re a cat.

Lemme just flag a couple things before dropping the whole deal:
1. As pointed out by others more knowledgable in Quantum Mechanics than I, your interpretation/use of that was wrong. Although nowhere near as offensive as BS like “macroevolution has never been observed” it still is part of the whole “but Science is based on Belief” nonsense.
This is the minor point as you have already and repeatedly acknowledged something about my mother that the whole Scientific Method has something going for it – that it’s more valid than just feelings with it’s accurate predictions and general provability.
2. Much obliged for the reminder that true believers snark amongst us, but they deserve the same amount of consideration as everyone else, such as people whose mothers really are dirty whores (I’m looking at you Whale Chowder). This ain’t no Safe Space or wev teh touchy-feelies are calling it. SRSLY, Good on you for pointing out that weapons grade monkery may cause collateral damage – now move on.
3. My telling anyone that it’s time to move on is not intended as a demonstration of my own lack of self-awareness.
4. PENIS.

Damn You, djerhu!

They only caught him because he was sending child porn over the internets

They still punished him less than people who did less, which is nuts. Yeah, I hope some people come forward, too, this guy richly deserves to spend major time behind bars.

OT, but epic wingnut circular firing squad forming… almost literally.

I can verify from personal experience there was no god in the 3 bottles of Rolling Rock I drank on Saturday night. Nor was there any evidence of god in the rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister. No truth or beauty either.

That experience did not lead you to the porcelain god for prayer? Hell, ONE bottle of old 33 would do it for me.

I can verify from personal experience there was no god in the 3 bottles of Rolling Rock I drank on Saturday night. Nor was there any evidence of god in the rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister. No truth or beauty either.

Beer & liquers are the provenance of Eris, Gooddess of Chaos.

You ever wonder why they call it “getting messed up?”

This discussion of faith is tame, tame, tame in comparison with others had here at the Sadly, No!

I can verify from personal experience there was no god in the 3 bottles of Rolling Rock I drank on Saturday night. Nor was there any evidence of god in the rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister. No truth or beauty either.

Lightweight.

I think one would be wise not to deny the possibility that Shiva has a hand in – those things get EVERYWHERE.

So, about that circumcision holocaust….

Off the blogroll!

Being a rationalist and a believer at the same time is like being gay and a Republican. Eventually, the two parts of yourself reach a point where they cannot be reconciled, and you must make a choice: do I believe in magical shit or don’t I? “Intelligent design” is one of those compromises one tries to reach to fend off the inescapable incompatibility between science and superstition. “Oh, I don’t necessarily buy into the whole Biblical creationist myth, but I just have to believe that there must be something out there that created everything to be so perfect, and still watches over us with a “Grand Design” for the universe and each of us as individuals.” Sorry, but the difference between that and “…and God made bananas to fit into our hands” is one of degree.

Now, I ask you – did these letters somehow EVOLVE?

Funny you should ask! Rudyard Kipling explained How The Alphabet Was Made. (Lovely story!)

I think one would be wise not to deny the possibility that Shiva has a hand in – those things get EVERYWHERE.

Not in prison – you might cut someone with one.

I’m still waiting for the followup video on the watermelon.

I’m still waiting for the followup video on the watermelon.

You racist fuck.

And plus also,

the pineapple. More proof and such. exactly my point.

Precisely. As we learn from the instructional film Little Nicky, the pineapple is constructed so as to cause the most pain when stuffed daily up Hitler’s ass in Hell … testimony to, you got it, intelligent design.

Sadly, this also proves that God did not design the Universe — Harvey Keitel did.

Sadly, this also proves that God did not design the Universe — Harvey Keitel did.

Harvey Keitel is 4000 years old? He doesn’t look a day over 1000.

mikey likes Creed? Seriously?

mikey likes Creed? Seriously?

I believe he tried to make the case that they were not the worst ever and he was of course WRONG WRONG WRONG!

I believe he tried to make the case that they were not the worst ever…

One wonders why an intelligent, sane human being would take on such a task. Drugs?

The banana cannot have been made by God because one day I slipped on a banana peel and zipped down the hill collecting Mrs. McGrady’s washing line – including frilly underwear! – on my face, smashing through a plate-glass window two hard-working gentlemen were carrying and ended up in muck and when I drew my head up I found I was in a pig sty and the pig was nuzzling me on the lips.

science posits that, absent evidence to the contrary, it makes the most sense (and results in stuff like computers and intertrons and edible bananas) to assume such

Term of art, demand.

I believe I have to side with mikey; though it theoretically possible Creed is the worst bad ever, that cannot be stated as absolute fact until all of ever is over, because it is also theoretically possible there can be worse. Any of Scott Stapp’s subsequent bands, for example.

I can verify from personal experience there was no god in the 3 bottles of Rolling Rock I drank on Saturday night. Nor was there any evidence of god in the rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister. No truth or beauty either.

But there is, in truth no beauty!

And if ur drinking an u don’t see God, ur doin it rong.

That experience did not lead you to the porcelain god for prayer? Hell, ONE bottle of old 33 would do it for me.

My beer choice was criticized that night I beleive the conversation went something like this:
Me: Hmm, there is no truth in the bottom of this beer.
Her: That’s because it’s fucking Rolling Rock. You ride Italian motorcycles, why the hell do you drink that crap?
Me: it is because I skimp on beer that I can afford Italian motorcycles.

Lightweight.
See the bit about skimping on beer.

Sadly, this also proves that God did not design the Universe — Harvey Keitel did.

What if the Intelligent Designer were not Harvey Keitel, but Harvey Korman?

If the universe were created with Eunice Higgins standing over the Creator’s shoulder drunk and complaining loudly about Mamma, that would explain a lot.

And that’s Hedley Lamarr!

Apropos of nothing, there have been three BIG apartment fires in my area recently. Dozens of people lost everything they own, and three people died. The gist of the comments on the local newspaper blog is that God is merciful because so few people died.

though it theoretically possible Creed is the worst bad ever, that cannot be stated as absolute fact until all of ever is over

See, there go you scientists again, trying to make morality relative.

I can verify from personal experience there was no god in the 3 bottles of Rolling Rock I drank on Saturday night. Nor was there any evidence of god in the rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister.

Ur doin’ it wrong.

Don’t you know that “malt does more than Milton can / to justify God’s ways to man”

The banana cannot have been made by God because one day I slipped on a banana peel and zipped down the hill collecting Mrs. McGrady’s washing line – including frilly underwear!

And yet you think the banana was not designed by God, yet you miraculously and finally ended up in a woman’s underwear.

The gist of the comments on the local newspaper blog is that God is merciful because so few people died.

*pffffft* Do they ever think to be thankful for the souls which were released from this vale of sin and pain into blessed infinity with the Lord? No, they don’t, the selfish bastards.

3 bottles of Rolling Rock […] rum and coke or the shot of Jaegermeister. No truth or beauty either.[…]

Well duh. In vino veritas, silly. Your expectations were all wrong. It’s like expecting a Duc to be comfortable.

Substance McGravitas said,
April 20, 2010 at 19:27

I hate it when that happens.

Miltown does more than Milton can / to justify God’s ways to man

Fikkored.

yes, yes.
for I have been to Ludlow fair and left my necktie god knows where,
and then the world seemed none so bad and I myself a sterling lad
etc.

But to be fair, gum on a shoe does more to justify god’s ways than that bore Milton. So its a pretty low bar for beer.

I miss mikey. Wish he would come around more often.

It’s hard to imagine an argument about the supremacy of Creed’s suckitude being enough to drive anyone away from this place. I’ve been engaged in several food fights here that I’m sure became a lot nastier. And you guys still can’t get rid of me.

And yet you think the banana was not designed by God, yet you miraculously and finally ended up in a woman’s underwear.

I have had previous experience in women’s underwear, but the authorities told mom to stop it because the other kids were laughing.

DA – I dunno if Colonel Mustard is on your beat, but this post is fucking tremendous… it’s got Godwin via Niemoller, Stalinist tin-foil overload and an argument that the financial meltdown of 2008 was a “manufactured crisis”.

Oh yeah, and prosecuting securities fraud now represents “the overweening encroachment of federal government”.

Or, as someone once said, “theft is theft”.

It’s like expecting a Duc to be comfortable

That is a mistake that we here at the 77south home for wayward italian motorcycles do not make.

I have had previous experience in women’s underwear

I’ve seen the photos.

But to be fair, gum on a shoe does more to justify god’s ways than that bore Milton. So its a pretty low bar for beer.

Oh my God, I just had a flashback to college and a Milton course I CHOSE to take from a sweet but very old lady.* I totally forgot about it. What the fuck was I thinking?

*She wasn’t as decrepit as my Shakespeare professor, though. He literally fell asleep in mid-sentence.

And in my defense I thought the vino veritas bit referred to all alcohol generally not just wine.

I have seen God in a pint of Guinness; the light separated from the darkness, and it was good.

And in my defense I thought the vino veritas bit referred to all alcohol generally not just wine.

Wine is the waterboarding of liberal alcoholism.

an argument that the financial meltdown of 2008 was a “manufactured crisis”

Well, yes and no.

Perfectly predictable by the laws of capitalism? yep.

Manufactured by idiots who wanted to grab as much as they could before the bubble popped? Yep.

Totally avoidable, had those involved wished to avoid it? Yep.

Gawrsh, I seem to just have negated that arguement from a Marxist viewpoint. OH I AM SUCH A BAD BOY

have seen God in a pint of Guinness; the light separated from the darkness, the black from the tan and it was good.

Diaskuesis for more poeticalness.

As tempting as it is to say “to hell with Goldman Sachs,” remember the saying about “first they came for ….”

FUCK YES THAT IS AWESOME.

Uh…

1) Couldn’t the same demo be done about oral sex?

2) Isn’t the banana we know and love the end product of lots and lots of crossbreeding, as carried out by humans?

have seen God in a pint of Guinness; the light separated from the darkness, the black from the tan and it was good.

Ohhhhhhhh black and tans…don’t remind me. How I miss them.

an argument that the financial meltdown of 2008 was a “manufactured crisis”.

Why is Colonel Mustard arguing that Goldman Sachs pushed instruments it knew would fail onto unsuspecting investors before the SEC has proven its case?

I loves the Guiness.

1) Couldn’t the same demo be done about oral sex?

This is a hazy mystery that could stand some investigation.

As tempting as it is to say “to hell with Goldman Sachs,” remember the saying about “first they came for ….”

So banking is the Jew of Obamaism?

I.E. the international bankers are the international bankers?

btw, Mr. Italian Motorcycle snob, this past weekend was the best riding day of the year (and one of the first good days at all) and I delighted in leading the Duc riding poseurs a merry chase over the Spine of the Dragon. The old fart on the cheap bike (SV1000S this year) showed ’em what for.

Why is Colonel Mustard arguing that Goldman Sachs pushed instruments it knew would fail onto unsuspecting investors before the SEC has proven its case?

Because he sees nothing wrong with it.

After all, even though corporations are persons, personal accountability only applies to us frail flesh-and-blood beings and those who fell for G-S’s line of bullshit are not victims but the real guilty party.

leading the Duc riding poseurs a merry chase over the Spine of the Dragon

Oh, that SO sounds like a drug reference.

I wonder if Comfort knows that some animals can change sex – his head would assplode.

Taking a chance by not reading all the comments first, but…

I expect they’ll find Pastor Ray one day, wearing two wetsuits, with a banana up his bum.

Now, I’ll start reading the comments, dreading the **AHEM** moment.

mikey likes Creed? Seriously?

Go after Boston. That’ll get him.

Boston is yankee redneck music.

Go after Boston. That’ll get him.

Also The Chipmunks. He cried when Alvin blew his head off. HA HA!

No decent God would have put the reproductive organs and the waste organs so close together – notjonathan

Just scroll down to “If God were an engineer”.

No doubt DoD engineers.

Creed could compete for most pretentious band ever… but worst? A half hour on any Christian radio station makes Creed seem like the Rolling Stones.

Because he sees nothing wrong with it.

You know, I often wonder if it’s the ideology that makes people monsters, or if they were just monsters to begin with and the ideology is just an extension of who they are.

Just scroll down to “If God were an engineer”.

No doubt DoD engineers.

So you’re saying that vomiting is a redundant system?

And The Rolling Stones seem like God.

To bring it full circle.

Mr. Italian Motorcycle snob

I do not disparage other makes of motorcycles. I just know which machines whisper to me when I walk by. And I relish the conversations i have with my motorcycles, which often go something like this:

Sport 1000s : psst. hey kid that throttle has a lot more twist to it.
Me: hey, you’re right.
Sport 1000s : psst. hey kid there’s a couple more gears there too.
Me: hey, you’re right.

Creed could compete for most pretentious band ever… but worst? A half hour on any Christian radio station makes Creed seem like the Rolling Stones.

I will stand by Creed remaining Creed in all circumstances, at all times. Others rise to comedy value, Creed will not.

Y’know, there is a hint of science envy in Ray Comfort’s stuff; I detect it in other fundamentalist religious tracts as well.

It’s central to all conservative brainblarting (I can’t call the process “thought”)- think of the “Half-Hour Comedy Hour” being characterized as a conservative “Daily Show”, consider Jason Mattera at CPAC and the Searchlight Teabaggers all blathering on about the respective events being a “conservative Woodstock”, and all the Teabaggers carrying on about how conservative women are smarter and hotter than liberal women… they always have to couch their beliefs in this passive/aggressive “us vs. them” rhetoric. They can only ape, they cannot create anything original.

In contention of course…

In contention of course…

Good call. I think ICP is BY FAR worse, if only for that dumb Faygo shit alone.

think of the “Half-Hour Comedy Hour” being characterized as a conservative “Daily Show”,

Thanks for reminding me, B^4!

What? FOX News wasn’t enough for them????

A half hour on any Christian radio station makes Creed seem like the Rolling Stones.

I see what the problem is here. Whatever it is that those stations are playing it sure as hell ain’t music.

PS: Have you guys seen those ICP-themed baby funeral photos floating around the internets?

Huh?

all the Teabaggers carrying on about how conservative women are smarter and hotter than liberal women

This is, like, my favorite. Not only is it a spin-off of the “ugly feminist” trope, but it also assumes that liberal women give a fuck if conservative men find them hot. Or smart, come to think of it.

Huh?

YUP. It’s the trainwreckiest of trainwrecks in the history of trainwrecks.

In contention of course…

Fuckin’ magnets!

it also assumes that liberal women give a fuck if conservative men find them hot.

A hot woman is hot, whether its Katrina Vanden Heuvel or Ainsley Earhardt. If you really feel the need to rub one out on a fantasy girl, it’s not really going to matter what her politics are.

But I’d rather have a conversation with Vanden Heuvel than sex with Earnhardt.

Heh. After the meltdown over at BlattBlart’s yesterday, my blog is being cased by Gay Patriot readers. So far no comments from them, though.

Fuckin’ magnets!

See, this is something of lasting value that you can’t get from Creed.

In other crap music news, Kylie Minogue is back.

Term of art, demand.

Simple English word meaning require or insist on; in the previous context, implies failure to understand how science works. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, if required to maintain a world view. But it’s, like, not right.

Additionally, Insane Clown Posse has had an ongoing feud with Eminem, which has provided some entertainment. This Creed cannot offer.

First off, I leave for 2 hours and this thread’s esploded!

Second: Thanks for reminding me, B^4!

“There’s wrong, and there’s right, right network, all that’s right with the world,” Grammer says

Oh noes. Grammer is going pun his way to the top of the ratings with stuff like this.

Previous Anonymous was muah. * curtsy*

This Creed cannot offer.

What?

What about their feud with Sadly, No!

OK, granted, it’s a little one-sided, in that they don’t even know about it, but that has to count for something!

First they suggested the mildest form of window-dressing restraint upon the ability of too-big-to-fail Wall Street firms to reap enormous profits from casino-like derivative instruments while burdening taxpayers with the bill for any downside resulting from the ginormous risks being taken … but I was not a too-big-to-fail Wall Street firm, etc. etc.

Wow.

This Creed cannot offer.

You know what else Creed can’t offer? Good music

the most rational deistic belief i have managed to hold in my lifetime is that god is a blind, insane child

i challenge anybody to show that this is anything but the most rational way to account for the state of the universe

but, most of the time i’m too tired to hold cosmological beliefs and revert to being an atheist. i don’t hold with this idea of having only one religious belief – havent’t you guys ever heard that ‘monocredism recapitulates oncology’??

Linguocreationism

i will gladly subscribe to this belief as well, since, being a hebrew myself, i underwent circumlocution shortly after birth

A hot woman is hot, whether its Katrina Vanden Heuvel or Ainsley Earhardt. If you really feel the need to rub one out on a fantasy girl, it’s not really going to matter what her politics are.

Oh, I don’t think they’re saying that liberal women aren’t hot because they’re liberal–they’re just saying their side has more “objectively” hot women.

And I’m trying to think of a single person I find attractive who has politics I disagree with, and I can’t.

You know, I often wonder if it’s the ideology that makes people monsters, or if they were just monsters to begin with and the ideology is just an extension of who they are.

I reamin agnostic on the question, but I will note the correlation I’ve mentioned before on sociopathy and business success.

The question is not “if you’re so smart why aren’t you rich?” so much as “if you are so bereft of morality why aren’t you rich?”.

casino-like derivative instruments

“Take care [Esteev], take chances and drive fast.”

The question is not “if you’re so smart why aren’t you rich?” so much as “if you are so bereft of morality why aren’t you rich?”.

I had a fight with a girlfriend on this very point once. She asked me why I wasn’t rich, since I was smart and attractive and charismatic, and I told her “Didn’t I buy you dinner before I screwed you? That’s how I handle my business affairs as well.”

Needless to say, we broke up that night.

Hey PeeJ…I just wanted to thank you again checking out those pics for me. I actually took a gander at them myself just now and was pleasantly surprised. They have a great drama to them…might be fun to work with!

Thanks again…

I now return you all to your thread….

In other crap music news, Kylie Minogue is back.

But look at this video! Fuckin’ videos, how do they work?

But I hear his side project is as good as its name:
Scott Stapp and the Stapp Infection!

I heard that Kylie Minogue is like a midget. Like…crazy short.

I heard that Kylie Minogue is like a midget. Like…crazy short.

Does she have a flat head?

And I’m trying to think of a single person I find attractive who has politics I disagree with, and I can’t.

C’mon, no lurve for Tom “Tiny Hooves” Delay?

I reamin agnostic on the question, but I will note the correlation I’ve mentioned before on sociopathy and business success.

Right? I find it ironic that conservatives always decry the poor for gaming the system in order to sponge off the taxpayer, but rich people are superheroes who simply because rich because of their Galtianess.

“Does she have a flat head?”

And can she balance a beer up there?

C’mon, no lurve for Tom “Tiny Hooves” Delay?

Narsty. Speaking of sociopaths…

And let’s be honest, here. Liberals are much better in bed.

Speaking of sociopaths…

Fucking covers, how do they work.

Maybe that’s why they don’t go Galt – they’re scared it won’t make a diffference, or, worse, things will be better without them.

“Does she have a flat head?”

And can she balance a beer up there?

She used to date David Tennant, who is super-tall. I wonder if he ever balanced his beer on her head?

Liberals are much better in bed.

You forget Orly Taitz.

Maybe that’s why they don’t go Galt – they’re scared it won’t make a diffference, or, worse, things will be better without them.

I think that may be part of it. It’s like, deep down in their souls, they know the only thing that makes them special or important is useless at best, and destructive at worst.

You forget Orly Taitz.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MY EYES.

You forget Orly Taitz.

BASTARD!

And let’s be honest, here. Liberals are much better in bed.

Yes, but by being liberal, I throw the curve off.

I think Orly Taitz and Lady Gaga were separated at birth.

Liberals are much better in bed.

but they spend too much time discussing tax policy during foreplay. i prefer tourette’s syndrome or nazis for hotter pillow talk

…I throw the curve…

The Metropolitans could use you.

think Orly Taitz and Lady Gaga were separated at birth.

Have you ever seen them at the same time/same place?? Blew your mind, I just did.

…I throw the curve…

The Metropolitans could use you.

No, but if I could HIT the curve…

I think Orly Taitz and Lady Gaga were separated at birth.

Do NOT besmirch the Lady in that manner!

“Have you ever seen them at the same time/same place?? Blew your mind, I just did.”

Mind.
Blown.

I think Orly Taitz and Lady Gaga were separated at birth.

It’s possible, I suppose, that there was budding, perhaps even mitosis.

Still going through the thread…

I’m still waiting for the followup video on the watermelon.

That video would be the work of another creationist.

“Do NOT besmirch the Lady in that manner!”

I don’t care for her, but hubby seems to luuuuuuv her music. Go figure.

And let’s be honest, here. Liberals are much better in bed.

I’m not better in bed. I’m pretty bad at it, or at least I sometimes worry that I am. But at least I feel guilty about it and don’t just blame gays or Darwinists or bananas for the, er, pickle I’m in.

Hey Douthat! This is how you do it:

I first learned about Neal Horsley when he sent me an email telling me he had been following my articles on secession and wondered if I could help him get in contact with the head of the Georgia Militia. I told him, sadly, no, but was curious about a link to a website he gave me for his campaign for governor. And then, there was the mule thing, which I’ll get to.

Who’s Ornery Taitz?

“’m pretty bad at it, or at least I sometimes worry that I am. But at least I feel guilty about it and don’t just blame gays or Darwinists or bananas for the, er, pickle I’m in.”

When I’m bad in bad, I blame Jesus.

er, bed.

That video would be the work of another creationist.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the whole “every farmer in Georgia’s first girlfriend was a mule” bit…oh, and how bugging another man is OK so long as you know you are sinning while you do it.

the mule thing

I’m not sure I want to “get into” that.

“Who’s Ornery Taitz?”

Lady Gaga

I’m pretty bad at it, or at least I sometimes worry that I am. But at least I feel guilty about it

Giving a shit is half the battle.

When I’m bad in bed, I blame Jesus.

So hang on…when she’s calling out “Oh God! Oh Jesus!” I’m being bad?

I owe my first wife an apology.

When I’m bad in bed I deserve a spanking.

And no, that was not a veiled scat reference.

actor, I’ve come to the conclusion that wingnuts will excuse anything, pedophilia, soliciting gay sex in restrooms, doing meth, wearing diapers, bestiality, so long as you say you’re conservative while you’re doing it. Honestly, it must be kind of freeing.

Who’s Ornery Taitz?

A floor polish AND a dessert topping, if you believe that article.

<I?When I’m bad in bed, I blame Jesus.

Well, you’ll just have to find another pool boy.

Honestly, it must be kind of freeing.

I suppose if your choices are to be shamed by your own ideology and philosophy or to be deep in denial about it by claiming there’s a higher ideal at stake which authorizes your offender behavior, it might feel liberating, but it strikes me that it’s imprisoning.

Well, you’ll just have to find another pool boy.

Surrender to the Ramon guard?

Ray Comfort on health care reform:

Behold, the Patriot’s Nightmare. Now if you study Obama’s health care package, you’ll find on the far side there are two large testicle sacks, and on the close side, a throbbing shaft of flesh. If you open your mouth to accept the package, you’ll find that your salivary glands and tongue combine to ease the package in. Obama’s package and your throat are perfectly made one for the other.

Seriously, Kirk, the whole of creation testifies to the genius of God’s creative hand.

“Well, you’ll just have to find another pool boy.
”

it’s just as well. He was getting tired of my sexual advances.

He was getting tired of my sexual advances.

He might have preferred a paycheck.

Wow, mega thread, trying to catch up, let me see if I have this right:

1) Creed is the worst band ever, for some value of “ever” — to this I submit into evidence exhibit A: Nickleback. Consider.

2) I’m supposed to care about the beliefs of people on here? WTF is that about? If I’m supposed to care, and not snark about that belief, the first thing I need to know is WTF you believe. If it’s some sort of ridiculous magic all-seeing omniscient sky fairy thing, I can’t guarantee anything. You go ahead and disparage Ninkasi, the Sumerian goddess of beer all you want, I don’t mind.

3) Not only are Italian motorcycles uncomfortable, my shiny red Triumph Thruxton shows that the Brits know a thing or two about producing a great-to-look-at bike that is a real pain in the wrists.

4) I can’t stand bananas.

5)???

6) PROFIT!

Bananas *are* pretty gross.

“He might have preferred a paycheck.
”

reminds me of that great line from Seinfeld: “Is it possible I’m not as attractive as I think I am?”

Bananas *are* pretty gross.

That’s Ray Comfort’s fault. Blame the playah, not the game.

“Linguocreationism – because if it was good enough to write the Bible in, it MUST be created!”

Reminds me of a good ol’ story… whether true or apocryphal, WTF knows?

Once upon a time, the West Virginia State Senate was feverishly debating a bill which would have added a minimum of one year of a foreign language to the high school curriculum.

The Senator from Goober Junction rose to speak.

“Mr. Speaker,” he said. “I rise to speak against this here motion. English was good enough for Jesus Christ, and it’s good enough for the students of West Virginia.”

reminds me of that great line from Seinfeld

All time fav:
-“Jerry, you’re a smart guy, right?”
-“No doubt about it”

Blame the playah, not the game.

RIP GURU.

I think you will find the correct phrase is ‘don’t hate the playa, hate the game’.

*Shakes head at the kids of today with their music and haircuts*

I think you will find the correct phrase is ‘don’t hate the playa, hate the game’.

I know this, but that didn’t fit the response.

If it’s some sort of ridiculous magic all-seeing omniscient sky fairy thing, I can’t guarantee anything. You go ahead and disparage Ninkasi, the Sumerian goddess of beer all you want, I don’t mind.

How about Eris, Goddess of Chaos, Lady of Luck, Mistress of Messupedness, all-around hot chick diety and who doesn’t even give a shit if you believe in her (it’d be only polite, but it’s not going to get a bug up Her nose if you don’t)?

Esteev, my fave is “no, I mentioned the BISQUE.”

Bananas *are* pretty gross.

Only in groups of 144.

UKBristolDave said,
April 20, 2010 at 21:42 (kill)

I think you will find the correct phrase is ‘don’t hate the playa, hate the game’.

Where are YOU from that you know so much about English, huh?

Then I shake my head in shame at my own reflection Actor 212

Bananas *are* pretty gross.

Only in groups of 144.

Indeed, some beauty has been ascribed to bananas, like that great Irish novel How Green Was My Banana?

Then I shake my head in shame at my own reflection Actor 212

No no! The confusion is on me. It was central to my point, in fact.

Substance

I’m from Brizzle. The normal rules of linguistics don’t apply in Brizzle. Or no?

my shiny red Triumph Thruxton

WRONG. COLOR.

vacuumslayer, yes the bisque quote is priceless. Elaine had some stellar lines. Another great Elaine quote:

[On shiksappeal being a myth] “I dunno, you have every able-bodied Israelite in the country driving pretty hard to the hoop”

I hear that arguing that something was / is central to your point will actually get you off war crime charges at The Hague.

Engineering and drinking don’t mix

Country, county same thing.

I think you will find the correct phrase is ‘don’t hate the playa, hate the game’.

Is this a knock against beach volleyball?

It’s about to get weird, folks.

oh, and how bugging another man is OK so long as…

Many years ago, some fagg0rt was traveling through the states (all of them, iirc, in a motorhome i think it was) to write about the experience and hooked up with couple of farmboys in Nebraska or somewhere equally absurd. The way they put it was “We have sex with men because we’re horny. You city fags do it because you’re sick.”

True story, t the best of my recollection.

FYWP

Beach volleyball – the single males friend during the summer Olympics

C’mon PeeJ, Nebraska is not dissimilar to prison.

I’m from Brizzle.

Man, I even looked that up to make you weren’t in Welshistan or something.

#

And no, that was not a veiled scat reference.

Agreed. It wasn’t veiled at all.

Esteev, I was always happy Elaine wasn’t token… Just hilarious.

Oh & that line is classic!

Nebraska is not dissimilar to prison.

Nebraska ain’t got bars¹

¹Veiled drunk reference

Substance

I can take pretty much any insult you can throw at me, my extend family and my country. However please never accuse me of being Welsh. It makes me curl into the fetal position and weep.

PeeJ, DUH, they were just doing research.

IT WAS PURELY SCIENTIFIC!!!!!

“C’mon PeeJ, Nebraska is not dissimilar to prison.”

Omaha’s actually not bad. Super neat and clean and a cute downtown. Lived there a couple years.

It makes me curl into the fetal position and weep.

The truth hurts?

One Welsh trader to another: “I’m not calling you a liar.

I’m merely saying that if you and I were in business together, we’d tell more lies than any two people ever before, and I’d be silent.”

Jeez, you guys get all considerate and stuff NOW, but any second N__B will show up and a new session of “interesting ways to kill zombies” will spontaneously erupt.

Oh, and Ray Comfort is stupider than a monkey. I’m glad somebody posted that video.

LOS ANGELES, April 20 (Reuters) – Cirque du Soleil will develop touring shows based on the music of Michael Jackson in the third major deal by the “Thriller” singer’s estate since his death last June, representatives said on Tuesday.

I can’t decide whether that makes me want to go to Vegas all the more, or stay here on the opposite coast with a 2000 mile comfort zone.

I can’t be Welsh 77south. I’m shite at singing and think Rugby is rubbish.

Ninkasi, the Sumerian goddess of beer

Raise your beers in praise!

Jeez, you guys get all considerate and stuff NOW, but any second N__B will show up and a new session of “interesting ways to kill zombies” will spontaneously erupt.

Actually, just the other night, I was pondering if a helicopter would be the best way to bowl for zombies…

http://www.slate.com/id/2251267/

A good “Fuck You” to Sarah Palin from a person with a brain and humility.

Sarah Palin thinks Barack Obama is a wimp. She’s been going around to Tea Party rallies, invoking the spirit of revolutionary Boston and castigating Obama for failing to exalt American power and punish our adversaries. She seems blissfully unaware that the imperial arrogance she’s preaching isn’t how the American founders behaved. It’s how the British behaved, and why they lost. Palin represents everything the original Tea Party was against.

Well, yes. Conservatives believe their country is the greatest on earth because they were born in it – ironically, that makes them exactly like their counterparts in every other country. Liberals believe their country is great because it’s actually founded on certain values and ideals that we hold ourselves to and the GOP, for all their pseudo-Founder rhetoric, would just as soon take a massive shit on.

Palin thinks American power is above apology

And Palin feels the same way about herself, which is crucial to her campaign. The most interesting clip I’ve seen her in to date was the one of her in her church at Wasilla back during the campaign. Most people focused on the African witch-hunting priest who was praying for her, and ridiculed her for still believing in that (which, you know, good point) –

But what I thought was a lot more revealing was what the man prayed for. He (and the whole congregation) bowed their heads in prayer to the Lord that he would help Sarah Palin get to the White House where she could pass good policy and spread God’s will through America, etc, etc, etc – there was a whole litany of things they were asking God to bestow upon Palin. Not once, however, did anyone pray that God would give her guidance, or wisdom, or advice.

Might sound like a really small thing, but I thought it was interesting, especially in contrast to the way the people I know pray. She’s a glorified bimbo with all the petty self-centeredness and fragile ego she ascribes to “Hollywood elites.”

Cirque du Soleil will develop touring shows based be cashing in on the music of Michael Jackson in the third major deal by the “Thriller” singer’s estate thieving and murderous family since his death last June, representativesgreedy pigs said on Tuesday.

Hey, y’all, my state of Georgia has more serious problems.
Georgia’s state legislature is holding VERY IMPORTANT hearings on Obamunist plans to inject all of us with tracking microchips.

A witness testifying on this matter in front of our esteemed legislature clarified that someone from the Department of Defense had inserted this tracking chip in her hoo-ha.

At the House hearing, state Rep. Ed Setzler (R-Kennesaw), who is shouldering the legislation in the House, spoke earnestly for better than a half hour on microchips as a literal invasion of privacy.

He was followed by a hefty woman who described herself as a resident of DeKalb County. “I’m also one of the people in Georgia who has a microchip,” the woman said. Slowly, she began to lead the assembled lawmakers down a path they didn’t want to take.

Microchips, the woman began, “infringe on issues that are fundamental to our very existence. Our rights to privacy, our rights to bodily integrity, the right to say no to foreign objects being put in our body.”

She spoke of the “right to work without being tortured by co-workers who are activating these microchips by using their cell phones and other electronic devices.”

She continued. “Microchips are like little beepers. Just imagine, if you will, having a beeper in your rectum or genital area, the most sensitive area of your body. And your beeper numbers displayed on billboards throughout the city. All done without your permission,” she said.

It was not funny, and no one laughed.

“Ma’am, did you say you have a microchip?” asked state Rep. Tom Weldon (R-Ringgold).

“Yes, I do. This microchip was put in my vaginal-rectum area,” she replied. Setzler, the sponsoring lawmaker, sat next to the witness – his head bowed.

“You’re saying this was involuntary?” Weldon continued.

The woman said she had been pushing a court case through the system for the last eight years to have the device removed.

Wendell Willard (R-Atlanta), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, picked up the questioning.

“Who implanted this in you?” he asked.

“Researchers with the federal government,” she said.

“And who in the federal government implanted it?” Willard asked.

“The Department of Defense.”

“Thank you, ma’am.”

The woman was allowed to go about her business, and the House Judiciary Committee approved passage of SB 235.

Chris, I read that earlier. A great piece. Neither Palin nor the Tea Partiers know what they are protesting. Until they do, their protests will be no more than racism and a fear of change.

She continued. “Microchips are like little beepers. Just imagine, if you will, having a beeper in your rectum or genital area, the most sensitive area of your body. And your beeper numbers displayed on billboards throughout the city. All done without your permission…”

…and after the words “For a good time, call:”

Just imagine, if you will, having a beeper in your rectum or genital area,

Sweet dreams, cons, sweet beeper bum dreams.

Just imagine, if you will, having a beeper in your rectum or genital area, the most sensitive area of your body

“Senator Vitter, why are you fidgeting during this woman’s testimony?”

If you haven’t already seen it see if you can make sense of this Sarah Palin speech.

“Senator Vitter, why are you fidgeting during this woman’s testimony?”

“The page is coming from inside my butt!”

Chris, I read that earlier. A great piece. Neither Palin nor the Tea Partiers know what they are protesting. Until they do, their protests will be no more than racism and a fear of change.

They know exactly what they’re protesting. Other races, and the prospect of change.

Substance, I refuse to go past the first “sentence”.

I don’t know if I should Buenos Aires or Bonjour, or…

..or you could Rio De Janeiro or Ciao.

If you haven’t already seen it see if you can make sense of this Sarah Palin speech.

I’m seven paragraphs in, and so far all I got out of it is that several guys named Tony asked her if she was Canadian.

The worst thing is when they insert microchips to increase the pain.

It is disappointing that no-one has linked to the evidence presented at Boing Boing, that Peeling bananas from the other end is easier.

Oh…and that somehow, she found diversity in a gathering of wealthy conservative Hamilton. Ontario Canadians.

I have to ask, is she colourblind? And I don’t mean that she’s free of racial prejudice: I mean, can she distinguish black from white?

Smut, it’s a long thread but it’s been done:

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/30427.html/comment-page-8#comment-1058191

We cannot allow a hoo-ha microchip gap!

We’re never going to find “God” because He doesn’t want to be found.
Have you checked under the sofa cushions? I find a lot of stuff there.
I looked, and there was Esteev’s magically-disappeared penis.

We cannot allow a hoo-ha microchip gap!

Even now, the Chinese army is pasting bar codes on sto signs indicating which women need these inserted.

I’m seven paragraphs in

And your brain hasn’t hemorrhaged? I’m impressed. Kudos, actor, you have an iron stomach.

I looked, and there was Esteev’s magically-disappeared

horaaaaaaaaay! I’m “saved”!

And your brain hasn’t hemorrhaged? I’m impressed. Kudos, actor, you have an iron stomach.

I have had training from Shao Lin monks in the fine art of distracting myself.

I could only get three sentences in. I think Paris Hilton is more coherent.

A witness testifying on this matter in front of our esteemed legislature clarified that someone from the Department of Defense had inserted this tracking chip in her hoo-ha.

Dude.

I’m seven paragraphs in

And your brain hasn’t hemorrhaged? I’m impressed. Kudos, actor, you have an iron stomach.

I couldn’t get past the title without retching.

Department of Defense had inserted this tracking chip in her hoo-ha.

Maybe this is part of Reagan’s Star Wars program? You know, how like in order to find extraterrestrial life, we set up this huge array of radio telescopes, maybe in order to track Russian missiles, if we chip every woman’s hoo-ha, we can pick up radio signals from Tierra del Fuego!

By those criteria I could be half Welsh. I like rugby, but I prefer the All Blacks. But in college when I was cast in G.B. Pergolesi’s ‘La Serva Padrona’ I got the part of Vespone, the mute.

And what the fuck does this even mean? “I don’t know if I should Buenos Aires or Bonjour”? What the fuck is she talking about? She’s in Canada. What the fuck?

“I don’t know if I should Buenos Aires or Bonjour”? What the fuck is she talking about? She’s in Canada.

It’s code. She caught sight of a busboy clearing a table and didn’t want to start the speech until Manuel Labore (see what I do there?) was out of earshot.

It’s code. She caught sight of a busboy clearing a table and didn’t want to start the speech until Manuel Labore (see what I do there?) was out of earshot.

Canada has Argentine busboys?

Canada has Argentine busboys?

Yes, because shut up.

They only told her she was crossing the border, not which one.

Canada has Argentine busboys?

Yes, because shut up.

And Sarah Palin is so worldly that she can distinguish an Argentine from, say, a Brazilian?

And Sarah Palin is so worldly that she can distinguish an Argentine from, say, a Brazilian?

She had it written on her palm.

“Yes, I do. This microchip was put in my vaginal-rectum area,”

Well, this policy will certainly change- President Obama has substituted a massive package for the microchip of the Bush administration.

You guys know what it’s like, competition in a place like this, with this steel capital of Canada, you having your highs and your lows, and this industrial place where people have strong work ethic and expectation for reward for work ethic, you know all about competition and hard work and then meeting the Marcanti family, too. And that was a story that they bring to this community.

Now it all makes sense.

They only told her she was crossing the border, not which one.

Imagine her relief when she realized it was Canada, and could get a follow up visit with her family doctor

Now it all makes sense.

The lady with the “vaginal-rectum area” beeper made more sense.

Search in the Palin speech for Plato and you will find the wisdom of the ages.

Search in the Palin speech for Plato and you will find the wisdom of the ages.

Oh, sweet Jesus. It hurts.

My favourite quote, coach Lou Holtz from Notre Dame, and I know there are a couple of guys here who love Notre Dame, yeah. Well Coach Holtz, he had said that God did not put us on this earth to be ordinary, he expects great things from us.

God wants us all to be above average.

He’s not going to drive parked cars, either.

No dummy, He.

The lady with the “vaginal-rectum area” beeper made more sense.

People today argued that God could not design humanity with its naughty bits so close to a sewer, but as this woman demonstrates, there’s a perfectly good reason for that design.

Evolution….HA!

“But too, my first five years of life were spent right there on the border of Canada, right next to you all, but further away.”

“But too, my first five years of life were spent right there on the border of Canada, right next to you all, but further away.”

Clearly, this is a message to Gort on the mother ship.

So god likes DP?

“Ma’am, did you say you have a microchip?” asked state Rep. Tom Weldon (R-Ringgold).

“Yes, I do. This microchip was put in my vaginal-rectum area,” she replied. Setzler, the sponsoring lawmaker, sat next to the witness – his head bowed.

Though, one might point out, that for all the crazy, the legislation was still passed. For a problem that doesn’t even exist.

I saw something yesterday about how the Teabaggers are trying to distance themselves from the citizen militias. Now we’ll see “normal” GOP trying to distance themselves from the Teabaggers.

Won’t work, guys. Lie down with slime, wake up with ooze in your hair.

“Piper, kay, I’m going out on stage. I’m debatin’ this guy, it’s going to be kind of tough.” I said, “So pray with me, honey.” And I grabbed her hands because that’s what we always do, we pray together. I said “Piper, just pray that I win.” Cause you know, why not?! Just pray that I do well, and oh man, try and keep it easy, I said “Just pray that God just speaks right through me.” And Piper said “God, speaking through you? That would be cheating.” Not that I would ever think that God would speak through me, but wanting to leave you with a little bit of inspiration and encouragement and maybe on a personal level have a conversation with you about some of the things that Todd and I have been through in the last year and a half, the last couple of years, that hopefully you can learn a couple of lessons from, because we’ve been through quite a few challenges, quite a few battles and you all too, everybody goes through battles, everybody has challenges.

a) What the fuck is she on about?

b) She totally thinks that God would speak through her, the fucking liar.

c) That last “sentence” was 94 words. 94 WORDS.

coach Lou Holtz from Notre Dame,

Jeez, appealing to St. Lou. There’s your problem right there, bud.

People today argued that God could not design humanity with its naughty bits so close to a sewer, but as this woman demonstrates, there’s a perfectly good reason for that design.

I could be a little rusty on my anatomy, but I didn’t realize that vaginas normally have rectums.

humanity with its naughty bits so close to a sewer

Oh, 42nd Street.

And Sarah Palin is so worldly that she can distinguish an Argentine from, say, a Brazilian?

In other words, is there hair there?

There’s never a boring story when it comes to the Palins. So much exciting stories that you would hear about how they would live in Canada and Alaska, back and forth.

The Palin family history – like a roller coaster combined with a rock concert plus some people moving house, minus the roller coaster and the rock concert.

The Palin family history – like a roller coaster combined with a rock concert plus some people moving house, minus the roller coaster and the rock concert.

They managed to get someone else paying for the costumes, though.

So much exciting stories that you would hear about how they would live in Canada and Alaska, back and forth.

She can’t even get this sentence, which is incredibly simple, correct. How does she not die of shame and/or stupidity?

Oh, 42nd Street.

It’s the avenue I’m taking you to!

Ah, but I’ve heard to be interested in the naughty bits your mind is already in a moral sewer.

Clearly, this is a message to Gort on the mother ship.

Bristol barada nicto. Bristol barada nicto…

Oh, 42nd Street.

Whacking off at The Disney Store is just not the same.

God wants us all to be above average.

So the lost Garden of Eden is……Lake Woebegone?

EX-FUCKING SQUEEZE ME?

From MSN.com:

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court struck down a federal law Tuesday aimed at banning videos that show graphic violence against animals, saying it violates the right to free speech.

The justices, voting 8-1, threw out the criminal conviction of Robert Stevens of Pittsville, Va., who was sentenced to three years in prison for videos he made about pit bull fights.

OH GOBBS FORBID WE SHOULD RESTRICT PEOPLE’S FREE SPEECH THAT WAY. LORDY LORDY LORDY

Hey, why not make snuff films legal while you’re at it, you fucking assclowns? Humans are animals, after all.

JESUS. With the story linked to the other day from BoingBoing, this country has its priorities SO FUCKED.

OH GOBBS FORBID WE SHOULD RESTRICT PEOPLE’S FREE SPEECH THAT WAY. LORDY LORDY LORDY

The concern was that the language was overly broad and that hunting videos would become illegal.

No, really.

The language does need work, but it bummed me out big time. I’m not going anywhere near /b/ for a while.

The lady with the “vaginal-rectum area” beeper made more sense.

How’s that pussy/chippy workin’ out for ya?

Having four kids, our oldest son, Track, who grew up obsessed with hockey. He too, like all of us hockey moms, he just thought he was going to be the next Wayne Gretzky.

Wait, did she just call Track a hockey mom or did she say she thought she was going to be the next Wayne Gretzky or …

You know what else fits in my hand? And curves toward your mouth?

The concern was that the language was overly broad and that hunting videos would become illegal.

I

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court struck down a federal law Tuesday aimed at banning videos that show graphic violence against animals, saying it violates the right to free speech.

To be fair, a broad application of such a law could possible yank videos such as this from the ether.

Uh… possibly… not even drunk, can’t excuse the grammatical error.

Yeah, I’m not a huge fan of the decision, and I actually do buy that videos depicting animal cruelty fall under the category of “obscenity.” But the law was pretty broad, and I can’t fault them for the decision.

That’s okay. They can come back and construct something more specific.

To be fair, a broad application of such a law could possible yank videos such as this from the ether.

I’m not clicking on that link until someone assures me it’s something cute.

Oh, hey, FYWP.

I saw the bit about hunting videos – maybe, but why does “pass the legislation and fix it later” not apply in this case? Why do we once again prove that sex is nasty and violence is perfectly okay in America? Show some nipple at the Superbowl, pay a massive fine; make a dog torture video, WHEEE it’s clear and legal! we. are. so. fucked. up.

yeah, smut, a-fucking-hem. phhtphptphhptpttt

But now I see that I muked ther first link, which was to a picture of a feral banana. Which looks absolutely nothing like Ray Comfort’s banana*.

NOT a VPR. Really, we’re talking about Ray Comfort for gawd’s sake. .

Show some nipple at the Superbowl, pay a massive fine; make a dog torture video, WHEEE it’s clear and legal! we. are. so. fucked. up.

Can’t disagree with you there.

So, he [Track] decides on September 11 that he’s going to enlist in the United States army as an infantry man. He’s barely 18 years old and that just kind of rocked my world. And it all of a sudden, shifted in me that perspective on what was going on in the world and how important peace is and we don’t want to send our sons and our daughters to war unless there is a good purpose to this. So Track enlisted in the army and he was to deploy to Iraq in a year, in a war zone, the next September 11.

But, you’re saying, the invasion of Iraq began in 2003. How could Track have deployed to Iraq on Sept. 11, 2002? Well, what Sarah doesn’t say is that Track enlisted on Sept. 11, 2007 — she wants us to think it was THE Sept. 11, but no.

Which puts her big shift of perspective on “what was going on in the world and how important peace is” a full SIX years after the event that caused millions of Americans (many likely almost as stupid as her) to become aware that there was in fact a world beyond our shores.

OH SHIT – the very next sentence, she totally cuckolds ‘the First Dude’!!!!!

And then, around that same time Todd and I found out, well I found out, I don’t know how much he has to do with it. I found out that I was pregnant.

Lie down with slime, wake up with ooze in your hair.

STOP READING MY DIARY!!!

The concern was that the language was overly broad and that hunting videos would become illegal.

Does anyonme even do that anymore? What with Netflix online and such as, I haven’t hunted for a video in ages.

Geez Louise, I just read about the microchip bit. I thought y’all were blue skying that one.

From Georgia. Well, that part isn’t much of a surprise. From legislation to the paranormal, it’s all anal probing with these people.

From Georgia. Well, that part isn’t much of a surprise. From legislation to the paranormal, it’s all anal probing with these people.

I disagree, as evidenced by an above-linked page, an occasional watermelon gets it as well.

I don’t know if I should Buenos Aires or Bonjour, …

Ho. Lee. Fuck. Ing. Shit. .That is one very funny broad.

I laughed, but honestly, the most fucked up thing about that whole microchip story is that they let an obviously crazy person testify in front of a bunch of people. I wonder how her family feels?

First they came for the parody videos

Feral Banana would be a totally awesome band name.

I wonder how her family feels?

Given the locale, probably ecstatic. “Looky here, Margo done got on the telebission”

First they came for the parody videos

I was wondering if that would happen.

the most fucked up thing about that whole microchip story is that they let an obviously crazy person testify in front of a bunch of people.

I can’t disagree, but if that weren’t allowed, how would we have ever outlawd the air loom?

This is all your fault for letting the ignorant and the unwashed have a vote.

RESTORE THE TIMOCRACY!

I can’t disagree, but if that weren’t allowed, how would we have ever outlawd the air loom?

That is so much cooler than a vadge beeper.

And somebody made it!

The Louisiana Purchase was an illegal transfer of dominion by a usurper to a un-timocratic regime of revolutionaries. If you act now, you too can have a place in the aristocracy when we restore the Ancient and Honorable House of Bourbon to its rightful place in dominion of the Americas.

The Aristocratic Class Is The Only Valid Revolutionary Class!

And somebody made it!

Neat! Though I don’t envy them the collecting of the various ingredients. That gaz from the anus of the horse is disgusting to procure, or so I hear.

“pass the legislation and fix it later”
What could possibly go wrong?

PeeJ said,

April 20, 2010 at 21:52

my shiny red Triumph Thruxton

WRONG. COLOR.

Sorry. It’s got a white stripe down the tank and rear cowl, does that help?

But, if dog fighting is illegal, then wouldn’t showing a video of it be – hmm. Well, aren’t there any restrictions to filming and showing crimes? Eh. I give up.

I’VE GOT THE VIDEOTAPE! I’VE GOT THE VIDEOTAPE!

Hoo-ha microchip lady in her live presence before the Georgia House Judiciary sub-committee, in the middle of a table full of legislators who had no idea what the fuck was going on.

I’VE GOT THE MOTHA FUCKIN’ VIDEOTAPE!

Originating web page here, archive 4/13/10.

Watch sponsoring red Ed Seltzky, sitting beside her, suddenly clam up and stare red-faced into his own lap.

WMV. Use a media player or download (563MB) and skip to about 43 minutes in.

Only a proper aristocratic cavalry can deal decisively with the Dangerous and Excitable Mob of Teabag Rabble. Join the Bourbon Restoration before we are all overwhelmed by Orthographically Challenged Baboons demanding Reactionary Jacobinism!

Oh, great. Vagina-rectum microchip lady is followed by an elderly “Bible Scholar” lady who complains that she “has heard” that the chip moves around in you and causes cancer, and also it’s the thing mentioned in the book of Revelations of the last days.

I can’t disagree, but if that weren’t allowed, how would we have ever outlawd the air loom?

Leave it up to “Government” to go after the little guy… I guess the deros were too big to fail.

why does “pass the legislation and fix it later” not apply in this case?

It does. In this case, the legislation was passed, and it’s fucked up, and somebody got convicted because of it. The Supreme Court said “No, you can’t convict somebody under a fucked-up statute like this, go fix it.”

How can Educated Gentlemen and Ladies like yourselves contemplate life under the Rule of Mob Teabaggers??? Never again to know the difference between ‘its’ and ‘it’s’! A world where Maroon can be a person and Moron a colour! A universe propogating social philosophies without definition or halt – Socialism, Socilesm, Soshalisem, Sosalasm! A Degraded Landscape of Apostrophes gone Ape!!!

Oh, great. Vagina-rectum microchip lady is followed by an elderly “Bible Scholar” lady who complains that she “has heard” that the chip moves around in you and causes cancer, and also it’s the thing mentioned in the book of Revelations of the last days.

And I’m guessing no wiseass decided to run a wall stud finder over her privates to find if she did have a microchip up in her?

Not a lot of time to post, but on some of the upthread comments about God vs. science….

1. If the reason you believe in God is because you can’t think of any other explanation for some of the beautiful, elegant, whatever aspects of the world — that’s great. That’s belief, faith, whatever. In fact, actor212’s caveman-watching-a-meteor example is a perfect example, and a lot of religious beliefs and superstitions come out of that feeling of “I can’t explain this, so there must be something at work that is bigger than I can comprehend.” In today’s controversy-happy United States, that’s the main “evidence” for so-called “intelligent design” (aka creationism): Science can’t explain X, therefore God did it. This is occasionally referred to as the “god of the gaps” argument.

Which, again, fine, but consider this: rationality, empiricism, the scientific method, experimentation, observation,etc. — these things have closed a lot of those gaps, and continue to close more of them. Does each gap closed diminish God in some way? Is God today so much smaller than in the days when thunder, earthquakes, planetary motions, stars, the circulatory system, etc., etc., couldn’t be explained?

2. If it turns out that the speed of light (in vacuum, for consistency) is somehow significantly different in the Andromeda Galaxy from its speed here, it will not cause the sudden collapse of science. It will, instead, spark a new series of experiments (thought and otherwise), hypotheses, testing, theories, and so on. That’s how science works.

3. The scientific view of the universe isn’t just “oh, this was random, and came together just so purely by chance.” the view is more like “there are fundamental rules about how things work in the universe, and we are finding and refining them all along.”

4. As I believe Dawkins has said, an atheist just believes in one less god than a Christian does.

Sorry for the disjointed and abrupt post.

an elderly “Bible Scholar” lady who complains that she “has heard” that the chip moves around in you and causes cancer

There’s a thing in Revalations about those who take the Mark getting sores and suchlike; I’m guessing that’s her (or someone’s) interpretation of the passage.

As I believe Dawkins has said, an atheist just believes in one less god than a Christian does.

And can be just as smug and intolerant about the point as the original.

And I’m guessing no wiseass decided to run a wall stud finder over her privates to find if she did have a microchip up in her?

Well, considering that all the heads in the room were thick as wood, it might be beeping a lot.

Dan, for a real larf and a harf, check out the video SMcG posted at 20:47.

Vagina-rectum microchip lady

She must be suffering from SUIT.

Kylie Minogue is a serious matter.

As I believe Dawkins has said, an atheist just believes in one less god than a Christian does.

And can be just as smug and intolerant about the point as the original.

Fundie atheists? They give the rest of us a bad name. Don’t be such assholes. Geez.

Does each gap closed diminish God in some way?

Not really, no.

On the other hand, every person who tries painting whatever faith I have as a belief in a wish-granting genie, treats faith of any denomination as a mental illness or abuse, and so on does diminish the number of people on Sadly, No I end up taking seriously.

Which is bad in a different manner.

Fundie atheists? They give the rest of us a bad name.

Indeed. Though I’m an agnostic, I cringe in sympathy with thoughtful atheists about the smug ones just as I do wrt the thoughtful Christians et al about the godbags.

My brother is a fundie atheist. Very smart guy, but all too aware of it. I don’t know how he managed to escape Objectivism.

I’ve always thought that Dawkins quote was pretty clever, and not asshole-ish at all.

I’ve always thought that Dawkins quote was pretty clever, and not asshole-ish at all.

Well, aside from the obvious math problem that if you believe in one less God than a Christian, you believe in at least two.

if you believe in one less God than a Christian, you believe in at least two.

Heh. Or two and zero at the same time.

treats faith of any denomination as a mental illness or abuse

Here I hope you mean “every denomination”. What my mom does, for instance, is harmless as these things go, especially when given the fact that people tend to be religious regardless of how many atheist arguments are pushed in their faces – BY ME! Some denominations are indeed abusive though.

Indeed. Though I’m an agnostic, I cringe in sympathy with thoughtful atheists about the smug ones just as I do wrt the thoughtful Christians et al about the godbags.

Yeah, and I think we have the same problem that Christians do–the thoughtful ones are quieter and less controversial, so they get less attention.

I just don’t see why people need to be a dicks about something that has been part of human existence pretty much since we started being human, especially if it brings a little comfort and purpose into people’s lives in this fucked up world.

Myself, I like the Dawkins quote.

Here I hope you mean “every denomination”.

Public school education makes me look the fool occasionally.

The rest is all me though.

T&U – me neither. But I think it involves a sentiment much like that “somebody on the Internet is WRONG!” principle. And titanic butthurt.

I’ve always thought that Dawkins quote was pretty clever, and not asshole-ish at all.

I don’t think that quote is asshole-ish, either. But Dawkins is still an asshole in general.

And Christopher Hitchens? That’s really who you want as a spokesperson for atheists, guys? Really?

If there were a Supreme Being, I think it would be pretty insulted at being invoked as the answer to any god-damned question that some lazy or confused humans hadn’t managed to work out yet.

Deity-minded human: ‘Well, we’re having a little problem explaining mass — it must be evidence of God.’

God: ‘Oh, Jeebus friggin’ cripes, grow a pair! Just because you can’t figure something out yet is not evidence of Me!’

if christians practised the religion that jesus preached, there would be a revolution in world affairs

I just don’t see why people need to be a dicks about something that has been part of human existence pretty much since we started being human, especially if it brings a little comfort and purpose into people’s lives in this fucked up world.

In my cynical moments, I believe your question contains its own answer.

I like the term “apatheism”- there are a lot more interesting things to cogitate about than the existence or non-existence of a deity or deities.

Kylie Minogue is a serious matter.

Apparently she doesn’t know where the heck she’s going as she circles the block at least five times. Hey Kylie, why don’t you check your purse for ID or something that has your address on it.

That said, awesome video.

I’m a non-theist. I don’t believe there’s any reason to believe in the existence of a Supreme Being or Universal Deity, but I don’t have any evidence to prove that there isn’t one.

Hey Kylie, why don’t you check your purse for ID or something that has your address on it.

Better yet, something with my address on it.

But Dawkins is still an asshole in general.

I don’t think he is. He actually seems like a sweet and considerate guy and would be fine company. He’s kind of impatient with silly arguments, but I’m impatient with conservatives.

The God Delusion is worth watching.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9002284641446868316#

T&U – me neither. But I think it involves a sentiment much like that “somebody on the Internet is WRONG!” principle. And titanic butthurt.

Yeah. And there is an argument to be made that religion has been used to justify a LOT of fucked up shit. But we don’t know if that fucked up shit wouldn’t have happened in some form without religion. And we can’t really weigh the fucked up shit against the comfort and other good shit that religion has provided to people.

I think there’s also something to be said about privilege, here. Atheists are often white, educated men, and this is one of the few areas in which they might experience some oppression. It’s natural in those circumstances to be pissed off at the people you see causing that oppression, and paint them all with the same brush. But, you know, get the fuck over it.

Better yet, something with my address on it.

It’s weird – I think that was my favourite Kylie Minogue video EVAR, and it’s also the one in which she’s the most dressed.

Atheists are often white, educated men, and this is one of the few areas in which they might experience some oppression.

I would posit that “out” atheists are often white, educated men… they tend to be more insulated from “bad shit at the hands of others” than most demographic groups.

I like the term “apatheism”- there are a lot more interesting things to cogitate about than the existence or non-existence of a deity or deities.

I’m too lazy to add the extra syllable. It’s a nice-sounding word though: outside typing on the internet I’m neither theist nor atheist. Oh, and pope jokes, which are better these days.

I don’t think he is. He actually seems like a sweet and considerate guy and would be fine company. He’s kind of impatient with silly arguments, but I’m impatient with conservatives.

Maybe “asshole” is the wrong word. “Purposely provocative” seems a better term.

In my cynical moments, I believe your question contains its own answer.

Yeah, I think you can separate the “asshole” part from the “believer” part. Pat Robertson would find some other reason to act like a judgmental douchebag, and authoritarian-types would still want to control people’s lives if religion didn’t exist.

In short: people suck because they suck.

Personally, I kind of just wish Dawkins stuck to his original work in memetics.

I’d like to point out that the oppression derived from religious movements and organizations in this country (of a particular variety, admittedly, but that doesn’t make it any less real or less religious) falls most heavily upon women and poor communities, and not educated white men.

I mean, objectively speaking, involving such serious matters as access to medical care, access to state funding and aid for social programs, education, backing for science programs, and economic and civil rights people with non-heterosexual orientations or gender identification.

What is really odd to me is that this seems to be the one thing that’s off limits. I don’t get it, we have poop, penis, and zombies (veiled Jesus reference), but mocking somebody’s religion is just too much? I recognize that we’re not 4chan here, but this is seriously off limits?

Whatevs. I think religion is silly nonsense, in the way that most of you probably think the new-agers and Yogic Flyers and such are silly.

Sorry, I’ll just have to deal with not being taken seriously. I’ll live, and when I’m done living, my mystic energy will join back with the Great Sky Badger(tm), if I was good enough for her of course.

Maybe “asshole” is the wrong word. “Purposely provocative” seems a better term.

If he weren’t “purposefully provocative”, he wouldn’t be a household name.

It’s weird – I think that was my favourite Kylie Minogue video EVAR

Michel Gondry is a genius so buy this. This video is so good I weep when I see it.

I think that movements often occupy individuals who personally and brazenly defy convention and who embody an ‘if you don’t like it screw you’ attitude, while others are more movement, coalition-building, and persuasive types.

Dawkins strikes me as the former (Hitchens is just an ass ever since Clinton), while any number of people constantly work to refuse to be required to adopt behaviors and standards of someone’s religion or belief in the non-empirical and supernatural imposed upon them, such as the lawsuits which had the Supreme Court destroy the notion that ‘Intelligent Design’ could be constructed as a ‘scientific’ alternative to be taught in classrooms.

I think you need both.

If no atheists were purposefully provocative, how many of us would still be closeted? I’m not saying that Dawkins or Hitchens are the civil rights heroes of atheism – but I’m not saying they aren’t either.

It’s a nice-sounding word though: outside typing on the internet I’m neither theist nor atheist.

The best part of it being that it can actually unify theist or atheist. I mean, I believe in a spiritual nature to existence, but I don’t need to make a huge production out of it. It’s just there for me, in case I need it at some point.

The rest of the time, fuck, I can barely even remember what day a major holiday is on, let alone what I’m supposed to be doing that day.

This video is so good I weep when I see it.

You never struck me as the lugubrious sort.

Atheists are often white, educated men, and this is one of the few areas in which they might experience some oppression.

I would posit that “out” atheists are often white, educated men… they tend to be more insulated from “bad shit at the hands of others” than most demographic groups.

I agree. Which makes sense, given the way our society works. It’s easier to be “out” as an atheist if you really don’t have anything else “non-normative” working against you. And while attitudes toward non-believers drive me fucking nuts, I’m much more directly affected by my status as a woman and a couple of other non-normative qualities I possess.

Honestly, I’m not really “out” as an atheist at all, and I will confess that I’ve lied about my religion in situations where I felt uncomfortable revealing I’m an atheist.

Meanwhile, one set of hard-right conservatives are now undertaking a campaign to call Senator Lindsey Graham a fag.

William Gheen, head of the conservative, anti-“amnesty,” anti-illegal immigration group Americans for Legal Immigration PAC (ALIPAC), spoke at a Greenville, S.C. Tea Party rally this weekend and called for Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) to “come out of that log cabin closet.”

According to Gheen, being gay is “a secret that Lindsey Graham has.”

Gheen told the crowd: “I hope this secret isn’t being used as leverage over Senator Graham, so today I think Senator Graham, you need to come forward and tell people about your alternative lifestyle and your homosexuality.”

“Barney Frank is more honest and brave than you,” Gheen continued, referring to the openly-gay Massachusetts congressman.

ALIPAC has posted the video titled “US Senator Graham is Gay” on YouTube, where various news outlets have covered it.

I’m sure Barney Fag Frank is sooooo pleased to have earned the admiration of these fag-haters principled conservatives.

Personally, I kind of just wish Dawkins stuck to his original work in memetics.

Yeah, but he hasn’t come up with anything really noteworthy since the Rickroll.

You never struck me as the lugubrious sort.

What makes me a simpering fool is usually happy or energetic stuff that’s done really well. Gondry, I think, is such a wizard at planning high-speed transitions inside an overall artistic plan that that’s my response. Mind you I giggle all the way through Todd Solondz films.

Oh FYWP, I was revealing MY SOUL.

ALIPAC has posted the video titled “US Senator Graham is Gay” on YouTube, where various news outlets have covered it.

How precisely does this differ from all the other videos on YouTube proclaiming someone gay? What next, X-Box Live records of someone calling Janet Napalianto a “kill-stealing lesfag camper”?

I’d like to point out that the oppression derived from religious movements and organizations in this country (of a particular variety, admittedly, but that doesn’t make it any less real or less religious) falls most heavily upon women and poor communities, and not educated white men.

True, true, true!

I’m not saying, though, that white, educated, atheist men are more oppressed by religion than anyone else. I’m just saying that since this may be the only oppression they’ve experienced, they might react to it differently than someone who has experienced other forms of oppression. This is not dismissing that their concerns are valid, but I think it does explain fundie atheists to some extent.

If no atheists were purposefully provocative, how many of us would still be closeted? I’m not saying that Dawkins or Hitchens are the civil rights heroes of atheism – but I’m not saying they aren’t either.

Maybe I’m just too nice.

Honestly, I’m not really “out” as an atheist at all, and I will confess that I’ve lied about my religion in situations where I felt uncomfortable revealing I’m an atheist.

My favorite response is to say, “I wasn’t raised in the church.”

If the matter is pressed further, I’ll say, “I don’t know if there’s a God or not but it seems less likely to me rather than more likely.”

Of course, with God botherers, I’ll just give them this look and say (when asked if I know about Jesus or the like): “Let’s just say….that he and I have a PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING.” Said personal understanding being “Jesus, you seemed like a pretty enlightened guy and it sucks the way you died, but no way did your mom get pregnant by god.”

And then there was the time after the Jehovah’s Witnesses stopped by and wanted to tell me all about the good news, and I said, “great! I’d love to show you all my fine AMWAY PRODUCTS.” They decided not to stick around after all. Perhaps because Amway is more of a cult than JWs.

And then there was the time after the Jehovah’s Witnesses stopped by and wanted to tell me all about the good news

I’m still sad that I got rid of my first Jehovah’s Witness so quickly by telling them I was Jewish. I didn’t even get a pamphlet or nothing! The media has been lying to my ass in suggesting they were terribly difficult to get rid of.

This video is so good I weep when I see it.

She wears socks to bed? That escalator pyramid thing has six sides but there are seven dancers. And the fuckin’ magnets – how do they work?

I’m a simple Dragon-King with simple tastes and weird complex stuff like that is over my head. More like this thing that everyone’s probably already seen.

And the fuckin’ magnets – how do they work?

Really? You’re going to bring that up?

This video is so good I weep when I see it.

It didn’t make me cry but I will agree that it’s pretty goddam cool.

I’m just saying that since this may be the only oppression they’ve experienced, they might react to it differently than someone who has experienced other forms of oppression.

Must depend on the place. I was forced to church and Sunday school and such, and Jack Chick comics scared the hell out of me when I was little, but so did that movie where the guy shrinks and battles a spider. It was plain as day that few people were taking the church seriously as anything other than a community get-together (which is of course not a bad thing in itself particularly if you have to listen to stuff about being nice).

And then there was the time after the Jehovah’s Witnesses stopped by and wanted to tell me all about the good news, and I said, “great! I’d love to show you all my fine AMWAY PRODUCTS.” They decided not to stick around after all. Perhaps because Amway is more of a cult than JWs.

I haven’t been aggressively approached by a JW in years and years, but they do hand out pamplets downtown sometimes. Once I just took one without paying attention to what it was, and then realized it was a little magazine about the evils of abortion the FUCKING DAY AFTER George Tiller was murdered.

If no atheists were purposefully provocative, how many of us would still be closeted? I’m not saying that Dawkins or Hitchens are the civil rights heroes of atheism – but I’m not saying they aren’t either.

A lot of people naturally assume that, if one is not an outspoken atheist, one is a tacit believer. I think Dickdawk and Pee Zed go a long way to disabuse fundies of this notion.

I mean, I believe in a spiritual nature to existence, but I don’t need to make a huge production out of it. It’s just there for me, in case I need it at some point.

Yeah, you may need to employ your chi to go to town on some mutha’s ass!

And DKW, that OK Go vid is like the kewlest evar.

…but how do fuckin’ magnets work?

What the article didn’t mention is that the woman is so hefty her “beeper” was a VCR.

Or that her body is so full of foreign stuff, her blood is fluoridated.

I’ve actually had a quite a bit of fun with the JWs over the years – I love their pamphlets, showing all the white women in the ME of Jesus’ time with their blow-dried Farrah Fawcett hairdos (and the old ladies with blue rinses and curler-set hairstyles). Usually I just tell them “oh, great, I already have the little red book!” When they ask what I thought of it, I answer truthfully that I really enjoy it. Because, man, those illustrations are funny as hell.

…but how do fuckin’ magnets work?

It’s a fuckin’ MIRACLE.

I love their pamphlets

JW pamphlets are AWESOME. I may still have one that shows heaven as a log cabin on a mountainside with overflowing cornucopias and PANDAS.

I never got any Jack Chick-style fire-and-brimstone either as a kid.

I didn’t even see one of his tracts until I found the Interwhatsit and had been properly inoculated in the ironic appreciation club that looks at those things and laughs at how fucked up what he’s saying is. Less existential horror that my soul was doomed, more comedy at how ridiculous the story of Dark Dungeons is.

I’m still sad that I got rid of my first Jehovah’s Witness so quickly by telling them I was Jewish.

I once said to two elderly female JW’s, “Usually the agency sends the same two strippers, but you’ll do.”

If you really want to genuinely freak them out, just tell them that you are an apostate.

Less existential horror that my soul was doomed, more comedy at how ridiculous the story of Dark Dungeons is.

NO, NOT BLACK LEAF!!!

Two Chick references in one day… awesome!

Must depend on the place. I was forced to church and Sunday school and such, and Jack Chick comics scared the hell out of me when I was little, but so did that movie where the guy shrinks and battles a spider. It was plain as day that few people were taking the church seriously as anything other than a community get-together (which is of course not a bad thing in itself particularly if you have to listen to stuff about being nice).

Well, I also mean on a wider scale besides just the churchy one, you know? I mean, in many, many parts of this country it’s assumed that you are believer, even if you don’t go to church. It’s not terribly uncommon for people to ask me about my religion in casual conversation, even if I hardly know them.

Some people honestly believe that atheists are monsters. Surveys show that most people don’t give a shit who marries into their family, as long as they’re not atheist. They’re responding to that more, I think, than any experiences they may have had in church.

OMG that reminds me that I once got this weird comic book from these weird people who were in some kind of Jesus Cult in the Ozarks. It was strange. I wish I’d kept it. It was much higher quality than either the Chick tracts or the Jehovah’s Witnesses publications, though.

Archie Christian Comics still made me wanna hump Betty.

T&U – that was probably Tony Alamo’s cult. Google that crazy shit – he stole his dead wife’s body and put it on disply for like a year and then hid it in a secret location, telling his followers that she was going to be resurrected.

Some people honestly believe that atheists are monsters.

Well, yeah. Because how could anyone ever possibly be a good person or do the right thing if they weren’t scared of going to hell and being bribed with a promise of going to heaven?

there are a lot more interesting things to cogitate about than the existence or non-existence of a deity or deities.

Yeah, like how the hell DKW’s mom got stuck between the cushions of my couch. Man, I’d been looking for her everywhere.

Also:

I’m fine with atheists drinking a nice steaming cup of STFU but I have to admit I get really tired of the shoving-down-the-throat from the Jeebus people. I mean really, you want to believe that stuff knock yourself out but just please leave me out of it. kthxbye

Wait, they’re saying Lindsey Graham is gay? Just because he has a girl’s name? Because having a girl’s name doesn’t make a man gay.

Now, Graham’s super-obvious gayface, that might make it convincing. Dude makes Ted Haggart look like Charles Bronson. Not sure why Charles Bronson is the example of not having gayface, but he is.

T&U – that was probably Tony Alamo’s cult.

Oh, yeah, he’s a fucking nutter. But I don’t think it was…they were like, a cross between Mennonites and hippies.

Because how could anyone ever possibly be a good person or do the right thing if they weren’t scared of going to hell and being bribed with a promise of going to heaven?

SKY CAKE!

That’s really who you want as a spokesperson for atheists, guys? Really?

I don’t recall there being a vote.

I will confess that I’ve lied about my religion in situations where I felt uncomfortable revealing I’m an atheist.

My mom used to cry about me going to hell when I was in high school, so I didn’t tell her when my faith blew away like a dandelion puff.

She wears socks to bed?

Cold feet can keep one awake. Or so a friend tells me. The weirder thing to me is she wakes up with socks still on. That never happens to my friend.

That never happens to my friend.

Clearly a moral failing of some type.

Anyone else grossed out by the obvious incest necessary to the belief that we are all descendants of Adam and Eve? As a young child, I found the uniform failure of adults to see elephants in living rooms more frightening than the promise of hell fire.

I’m thankful not to have been confronted with an adult using a banana as “evidence” to support the creation story as a child. That’s just creepy. If you want to impress me, use dog shit as evidence for a supreme creator.

Clearly a moral failing of some type.

Since atheists are monsters, I guess the tentacles are only sockable for a limited time.

I guess the tentacles are only sockable for a limited time.

Ooh, I see a marketing ploy:

“Athiests! Tired of getting cold feet at night? Try Tentacle Tubesocks! They’ll stay on through the worst existentialist nightmares!”

I’m still trying to figure out why God was so pissed off at Cain for giving him offerings of the scraps from his permanent agriculture while he loved Abel for giving him offerings of the scraps from his livestock raising.

This is from waaaay up there, but:

The way they put it was “We have sex with men because we’re horny. You city fags do it because you’re sick.”

This sounds very like something Gore Vidal used to say (OK, write. It’s not like I knew him). If I remember it correctly, it wasn’t so much that the city boys were sick as that they insisted on giving it a label (I do this because I’m Gay), whereas the country boys did it because they felt like it.

Vidal was big on Kinsey. He thought just about everybody was bisexual to one extent or another, and he thought it was wrong to speak of gay people and straight people as non intersecting sets. This anecdote was by way of illustrating that point.

Anyone else grossed out by the obvious incest necessary

There were angels and giants around to fuck. No doubt a demon or two.

According to Gheen, being gay is “a secret that Lindsey Graham has.”
Gheen told the crowd: “I hope this secret isn’t being used as leverage over Senator Graham, so today I think Senator Graham, you need to come forward and tell people about your alternative lifestyle and your homosexuality.”

Why so defensive, Senator? It’s not like “fag” is a slur or anything.

Anyone else grossed out by the obvious incest necessary to the belief that we are all descendants of Adam and Eve?

Enh. Considering that evidence that like 60% of Europe is descended from one woman from Bulgaria back in the 13th century, we’re already pretty fucked up.

I have heard (from people I believe) that there is evidence that the entire human race is descended from essentially the population of a small hamlet. (They call it a population bottleneck, or something.)

Why the fundamentalists have never jumped on this as “proof” of the story of Noah is a mystery I have never solved.

Reprise:

Mitochondrial Eve
Found it hard to believe
That she’d meet the Y-chromosome Adam.
She was right it turned out
For there can be no doubt
That her great × n granddaughter had him.

Lurker, yes it is called “The Great Bottleneck” when the human race was down to only a few thousand people in a certain section of Africa about 50 thousand years ago.

“Why the fundamentalists have never jumped on this as “proof” of the story of Noah?” My guess is that they would have to concede that we are all descended from niggers.

Also,
50,000 does not = 6,000
The theory has nothing to do with a world wide flood but most likely the opposite: Localized long term lack of rain.
And so on . . .

Fundie atheists

Many of us prefer anti-theist.

That’s really who you want as a spokesperson for atheists, guys? Really?

No, but he’s an attention hog so unfortunately he gets all the press while Sam Harris is like, Sam Who?

Also, Dawkins was not the originator of the one-less-god aphorism. It is usually attributed to Stephen Roberts. The original goes like this:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

I’m still trying to figure out why God was so pissed off at Cain for giving him offerings of the scraps from his permanent agriculture while he loved Abel for giving him offerings of the scraps from his livestock raising.

This is an easy one, because the people whose myth this is were pastoral herders, not farmers. There’s no way they weren’t going to make themselves the heroes of their own myth.

This is an easy one, because the people whose myth this is were pastoral herders, not farmers. There’s no way they weren’t going to make themselves the heroes of their own myth.

Okay, yeah, if you want to go all ‘reasonable’ and shit, but I mean in the lunatic context of teh Bibble.

They don’t really explain it, any more than Jacob (then renamed “Israel”) wrestling some dude at a river who later ‘touched’ his thigh and paralyzed him makes it forbidden from them on for Jews to eat any meat from an animal which may have touched the sciatic nerve.

“Why the fundamentalists have never jumped on this as “proof” of the story of Noah?” My guess is that they would have to concede that we are all descended from niggers.

We’re all part eggplant.

Jeez, you guys get all considerate and stuff NOW, but any second N__B will show up and a new session of “interesting ways to kill zombies” will spontaneously erupt.

You’re safe, ZRM. My telepathic death ray is on the fritz. Cell-phoners on the train from Hartford this evening couldn’t understand why I was staring at them while furrowing my brow.

50,000 does not = 6,000

Now you tell me.

To Lurking Canadian from Unlurking ‘burgher:
They call it a population bottleneck, or something.

See here:
the volcanic winter and instant Ice Age would have reduced populations levels low enough for founder effects, genetic drift and local adaptations to produce rapid changes in the surviving populations, causing the peoples of the world to look so different today. In other words, Toba may have caused Modern Races to differentiate abruptly only 70,000 years ago, rather than gradually over one million years.

Which,(as you can plainly see, eh?), is why Hamlet, the little villager, said Toba or not Toba, that is the question; whether ’tis better to have evolved over a million years, or to have come from some stinkin’ little town in the middle of nowhere.

50,000 does not = 6,000

Now you tell me.

Made a goof on your tax return again?

Cell-phoners on the train from Hartford this evening couldn’t understand why I was staring at them while furrowing my brow.

I think actor knows the feeling from his last time at Olive Garden.

I’m thankful not to have been confronted with an adult using a banana as “evidence” to support the creation story as a child.

Wasn’t it in Sadly No that a picture was posted of what actual wild bananas looked like before humans started altering their genetics and affecting their…uh…evolution? As I recall, they had huge seeds, were rounder and had less of the sweet, fleshy stuff we love. So this “God designed the banana to fit in our hand because he loves us” claptrap is even sillier.

Uh-oh! One of the characters on Glee just implied Ann Coulter wasn’t a good role model for teenage girls.

Cue Butt Hurtywood!

Completely OT, maybe I should start watching soccer.

There’s like 90 minutes of running around and the game can end with ZERO kisses.

I have heard (from people I believe) that there is evidence that the entire human race is descended from essentially the population of a small hamlet. (They call it a population bottleneck, or something.)

I believe you’re referring to the genetic variation among all humans, which states that something like 95% of all genetic variation in the human species would preserved if there was a global catastrophe, and only the highland tribes of Papua New Guinea survived.

Needless to say, this causes great consternation among those theologians who happen to be: American, white, fat and stoopid. Oh yes, and racist. Also.

Peej, you should. Footballers are hot.

There’s like 90 minutes of running around and the game can end with ZERO kisses.</i.

I have heard that the lack of anything happening except for running around is at the root of hooligan behavior. People pay a lot of money to watch a "football" game and nothing happens. No one scores. Then the refs further antagonize everyone by arbitrarily extending the game. Then, at the last, they decide who to make the winner via penalty kicks. No wonder people get violent.

Needless to say, this causes great consternation among those theologians who happen to be: American, white, fat and stoopid. Oh yes, and racist. Also.

Thanks for the list of quotes. But I’m mystified why it left out the following one

“The true Negro does not want integration… He realizes his potential is far better among his own race… It will destroy our race eventually… In one northern city, a pastor friend of mine tells me that a couple of opposite race live next door to his church as man and wife… It boils down to whether we are going to take God’s Word as final.”

Wasn’t it in Sadly No that a picture was posted of what actual wild bananas looked like before humans started altering their genetics and affecting their…uh…evolution?

Yes.

One of my favorite things to do is to calmly point out to people that it’s virtually impossible for them to have no black ancestors within even the past 1500 years. That’s somewhere within the past 50 – 100 generations. There were 300 million people on the planet then and some 7 billion now; with all the migrations over the past 5 or 6 centuries there are probably very few of us, in extremely isolated populations, who don’t share at least one common ancestor somewhere in the very recent (historically speaking) past.

There’s like 90 minutes of running around and the game can end with ZERO kisses.

…but the acting is heroic

ckc (not kc) said,
There’s like 90 minutes of running around and the game can end with ZERO kisses.

…but the acting is heroic

I’ll say!

Footballers are hot.

Somehow, foot-balling seems even less sanitary than tea-bagging.

Got here late, but WTF. Thought the JW’s would piss off when I put the mezzuzah up, but it didn’t stop them. When I came to the door with the pet tarantula on top of my head (bad-ass yarmulke!), they never came back. Also, after riding Commandos for years, the Monster is pretty comfy- better brakes, though, but I’m pretty rugged that way. I gave up on god along time ago- too irrational. Quit the booze and dope long before going atheist, too. That shit didn’t work, either.

There’s no fucken way I’m reading 500 comments, so forgive me if I duplicate (I am aware of all internet traditions), but if this banana story is true, why does my cock not have gripping ridges?

Also, I guess 10,000 years of selective cultivation doesn’t count for much. The original banana was a tiny little thing, not very sweet. They have been bred into their current form.

OK, I’ll stop. You fuckers probably said all this so instead of feeling clever and superior with the vast stach of knolege in my brane I just feel like a latecomer to an awesome party at which the keg has just run dry.

Happy 420 day.

On the whole religion-good/religion-bad thing: no offense to Patton Oswald, but the rise of organized religion also “just happens to be” coterminous with a bunch of the most nakedly evil empires ever – Babylon, Sumeria, & who knows what other vanished cabals of badass mass-murdering motherfuckers, each with a handy-dandy clergy to sanctify the bloodbaths & keep the rabble in line. The sort of atrocities that made the Nazis infamous used to be business-as-usual, for a very long time – & over & over again, it was a bloody theocracy that was making the nasty shit go down. For that matter, take a good look at the Hebrews in the OT – sweet mother-of-pearl, it’s all-genocide all the time with those guys … & not really much of any hint of social progress.

Yahweh says your favorite band sucks – & so does that crazy “printing-press” idea you’ve been tinkering with. Want to take power away from the priests, just because they screw up everything they touch? Looks like there’s gonna be a big barbecue this Sunday, & you’re the guest of honor.

The Dark Ages weren’t exactly a minor blip in history – that’s several fuckin’ centuries’ worth of relative full-bore inertia where we could’ve been figuring important stuff out – a little societal handicap that looks to be pwning us quite nicely right about now. Too bad we don’t actually have another 600 or so years to make up for the time we pissed away putting folks like Galileo under arrest while fervently kissing the taint of Mother Church. Fuck the flying cars, right now I’d settle for cheap clean power-plants for the earthbound ones – oops, seems a whole bunch of popes had other ideas, like inquisitions & indulgences! POBODY’S NERFECT! Give stegosaurus our regards, kids!

Then there’s the wacky branch of fundamentalism that not only loves them some Tribulation & some sweet juicy flame-broiled Armageddon, but earnestly believes in making it happen ASAP so that Jesus can moonwalk down a rainbow & start handing out Bud Light & blowjob-coupons. If they get their way – & you know they just don’t EVER give up trying – I’m pretty sure this whole “religion good-versus-bad” debate is gonna look mighty fucking stupid, to put it very very mildly … if anyone can take time out from their busy schedule of foraging for roadkill to engage in such airy-fairy arcana, that is.

I’d respect religion a lot more if it was able to return the favor.

I believe you’re referring to the genetic variation among all humans, which states that something like 95% of all genetic variation in the human species would preserved if there was a global catastrophe, and only the highland tribes of Papua New Guinea survived.

Say…

There’s no fucken way I’m reading 500 comments, so forgive me if I duplicate (I am aware of all internet traditions), but if this banana story is true, why does my cock not have gripping ridges?

Design flaw. Blame God.

I’d respect religion a lot more if it was able to return the favor.

So, your summary is Mesopotamia back when everyone in the universe was three hairs away from a chimpanzee to begin with, the Dark Ages which took place in Europe and everyone else in the world seemed to do just fucking fine at societal progress (or else we wouldn’t have, y’know, math), and the current lot of Christian fundamentalists who are stupid.

Way to hold a grudge there, jim.

God? I have no need of that hypothesis.

T&U – that was probably Tony Alamo’s cult.

Oh, yeah, he’s a fucking nutter. But I don’t think it was…they were like, a cross between Mennonites and hippies.

I was thinking you meant The Covenant, The Sword And The Arm Of The Lord, which I had forgotten about until NPR mentioned that in with the Oklahoma City bombing anniversary coverage (in a strictly “first modern nutso militia to go national media-wise” sense) .

But nothing hippie and Mennonite about those whack-a-loons, so I’m at a loss as to you’re thinking about.

The amount of time between slipping on the peel and landing on the
pavement is precisely 1 bananosecond.

My favorite sentence from his site:

You can get wisdom at bazaars? If only I knew, before wasting all that time in school…

No, you get conceits at a bazaar, but only at the self-service kiosk.

It’s a little like being an American and having to explain a President Bush Carrot Top.

Fykst.

I guess for me, it comes down to this: religious belief would add nothing to my life.*

I don’t feel the need to understand a “purpose” to human life in the universe. I am perfectly content to consider it a happy accident, or the lucky convergence of natural processes.

I don’t feel the need to explain the inexplicable by reference to supernatural forces. Nor do I feel that knowing a rational explanation for something, such as a rainbow, detracts from its beauty or majesty. I am perfectly capable of appreciating something on an aesthetic and emotional level, even if I know the natural processes that cause it.

I don’t feel the need for an externally-imposed “purpose” or “meaning” to my own life. I feel perfectly capable of determining my own purpose and meaning.

I don’t feel the need for an externally-imposed set of moral precepts to make me a “good” person. Religious faith is neither necessary nor (as we can see by looking at history) sufficient to render a person morally good. (On the other hand, the Golden Rule may be both, and while I realize that many of the world’s religions have incorporated the Golden Rule, it does not require a religious framework.)

I don’t feel the need to worry about what happens after I’m dead. I am content to make my way in the world on the assumption that my life is what I get. What I choose to make of it is up to me.

All that said, this is an approach that works for me. I don’t imagine it works for everyone, and while I admit to a certain degree of argumentative smugness about it (it’s my nature), I don’t generally begrudge anyone their religious faith, as long as they don’t try to convert me or convince me that they’re right.

* Religious communities are occasionally a different story. I belong to a religious community and I derive a great deal of benefit from many (non-religious) features of that community.

I belong to a religious community and I derive a great deal of benefit

Interesting. What community? Not specifically, but what sect?

My family belongs to a synagogue. I like a lot of the people in it; I enjoy the cultural heritage and history and the disputatious nature of Judaism in general. Plus, of course, the monthly checks from International Jewish Conspiracy Worldwide Ltd. It would be totally awesome if not for all that God stuff.

Wow, leave for a day and see what happens.

actor212, let me put it this way: the Bible makes several claims as to how the physical world works. For instance, it says the Earth was created in six days. It says that the diameter of a circle multiplied by exactly three will get you a circumference. It says that Joshua stopped the sun in its tracks. Other holy books — the Vedas, Chinese mythology — make similar types of claims.

All of these fail when we look at the world around us. One of the things sciece does really well is explain the physical world. And while having a God create the universe sounds simple, it actually is a much more complicated hypothesis because then you have to account for the seeming arbitrariness of the “rules” governing physics. Like the fine structure constant, or the speed of light. Thus far, there are no nontrivial claims about the physical universe the Bible makes that has proven correct. (That is, we know animals breed already, that the sun comes up, stuff like that).

Assuming the whole universe is governed by the same rules is simple, and it works. Thus far there isn’t a whole lot of evidence that it isn’t the case. (The issues brought up earlier with what happens with gravity are a little different, and haven’t got much to do with gravity itself but with the large-scale structure of space-time — there’s some evidence that as the universe expands past a certain point space time stretches enough that even atoms fall apart).

The other problem is that if you take the position that God did it you really can’t explain anything at all. The God hypothesis simply hasn’t gotten us any closer to understanding any physical mechanism.

Now, this has nothing to do, by the way, with stuff like ethics. That’s a completely non-science field, and it is so for a reason. Comfort isn’t willing to acknowledge that– he’s seeking validation of his religion (an area ultimately unaddressable by science) via science itself. That won’t work. Because the Bible (in his case) lost already.

Carl Sagan had a way of looking at that I will steal: he mentions someone saying they have a dragon in the garage. “It’s an invisible dragon,” he says. “OK, maybe we can throw some paint on it or something and see its shape.” “No, it’s an invisible, intangible dragon.” “Well, can we put in some sound recording equipment? Maybe we will hear it.” “It’s silent as well.”

Now, Occam’s razor: which hypothesis is simpler: that there is no dragon, or that there is an invisible, intangible, inaudible dragon? When you say that God is the simpler hypothesis, you’re positing the dragon. And you are no closer to understanding any physical phenomenon than you were before, because you can’t measure any effects of such a dragon.

Science doesn’t take a position on belief. No matter your religion, if you jump off a building odds are you will fall at 9.8 m/s/s and go splat. What you believe doesn’t matter. Gravity doesn’t care. One of the key truth claims religions of all stripes make is that the rules are different for believers; i.e. if you have faith you will be rewarded. There is no evidence whatsoever for that.

People say all the time “The Universe works consistently, it must have been designed.” But why? There’s no requirement for that. There are plenty of physical forces that create patterns, why not on a large scale? Hurricanes, Galaxies snail shells and proto-planetary discs all have similar shapes, but that’s a function of physical laws, not necessarily because some higher power thought spirals look nice. Some of that is because for any universe to function at all the laws in it have to be consistent across large-scale areas. That is, if you took all the possible universes, the ones with life in them have to have certain characteristics for things like chemistry to work. There might be plenty of universes where that isn’t so.

Comfort demonstrates he doesn’t understand biology, doesn’t understand science, and refuses to learn. That’s just tragic.

actor212, let me put it this way: the Bible makes several claims as to how the physical world works

So do poets. When you put Lord Tennyson to the same rigorous scrutiny, please DO let me know.

Nobody, as far as I know, considers Lord Tennyson’s poetry an explanation for natural phenomena. That’s a false analogy.

Here’s another thought: The “God of the gaps” — the one about whom we say “God did it” when we can’t explain a phenomenon or observation — does get smaller as we learn things about the universe. This occasionally leads people to posit a God who set physical laws in place, “wound the watch” and then sat back to let it go. Again, the more we explain about physical laws, the more distant such a God becomes, to the point (IMO) where the concept of such a God is meaningless — He/She/It is too abstracted, too hands-off to have any effect on the world (or at least, on my world).

Now, there may be a different reason, beyond “God of the gaps” for your belief. But as far as explaining what happens in the world/universe, and how it happens, it seems to me that God isn’t necessary. We don’t know everything about it — and we may never know it all — but it is at least conceivably knowable without reference to supernatural origins.

Nobody, as far as I know, considers Lord Tennyson’s poetry an explanation for natural phenomena. That’s a false analogy.

Not anymore false than setting the Bible up as a strawman work of science. It “explains” the origin of the planet in a mythological and wholly unscientific manner. Therefore, to claim somehow that science is a legitimate tool to debunk it is silly.

Since I never made any such claim, it insults my intelligence and demeans the arguer as well. Yes, many people take the Bible at literal truth and face value.

So what? It’s a small number at any rate compared to the number of people who take the Bible as a work of beauty and poetry that contains a certain amount of societal and personal truth.

If atheism, which is a FAR SMALLER minority of people than the percentage of literalists, I should point out, wants to convince people that religion is wrongful, then it needs to stop insulting the very people it proposes to make its proof to.

If atheism, which is a FAR SMALLER minority of people than the percentage of literalists, I should point out, wants to convince people that religion is wrongful, then it needs to stop insulting the very people it proposes to make its proof to.

You don’t do this for conservatives, no reason why people should to it for you.

Also if an argument for the Bible is “don’t take this literally” then the case has been made against religions that use it. That’s not to discount the spiritual impulse, which IMO is present in most humans and especially in me when I want my team to win, but it goes towards the general trend that whatever the spiritual impulses might be, particular manifestations of it are almost always easy to dispose of with very little effort.

Not anymore false than setting the Bible up as a strawman work of science. It “explains” the origin of the planet in a mythological and wholly unscientific manner. Therefore, to claim somehow that science is a legitimate tool to debunk it is silly.

Except that the Bible does make claims about observable phenomena, for centuries, believers relied on it as the purveyor of fact and truth about how the world came to exist and how it works. And there are still some believers today who think they can understand everything about how the world works by looking to the Bible. Science is indeed a legitimate tool to debunk that particular religious world-view.

I would note that your referring to the Bible’s origin story as “mythological” would probably get you in trouble with certain believers in Tennessee.

I also note that you say such Biblical literalists are a “small number … compared to the number of people who take the Bible as a work of beauty and poetry that contains a certain amount of societal and personal truth.” I’m not sure where you get your figures, but the most recent poll I was able to find — a Gallup poll from 2007 — showed almost 1/3 of Americans believing that the Bible is literally true. On a worldwide basis, 100 million people is surely a minority (though we don’t have any figures for non-Americans), but that’s still a scarily high number of people in this country, influencing school curricula, textbooks, and political debates. On the basis of a belief — which you appear to agree is mistaken — in the literal truth and absolute accuracy of the Bible.

As for your last point, I don’t think most atheists want to convince people that religion is “wrongful.” Undoubtedly there are some atheists — often high-profile ones — who do want that, but most atheists that I know of are more concerned with such problems as the entanglement of religion with government (a problem that seems to be growing these days). Also, in a country whose government is theoretically supposed to be devoid of religious favoritism — and whose founding document specifically says that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust” in the federal government — it is appalling that a candidate for any significant office cannot be elected if he or she does not profess religious faith (and only certain approved faiths, at that).

And then there’s the problem that when someone like Ray Comfort makes a pseudo-scientific argument for believing the Bible is literally true, and someone points out that a belief in the literal truth of the Bible is incompatible with nearly everything we know about the world from observation using the scientific method, someone else — despite being aware of how stupid Ray Comfort’s “argument” is — jumps up and says “Hey, some of us believe in God, so watch it.” As if pointing out the scientific uselessness of religion is somehow an attack on religion and all religious people. You don’t have to be an atheist to take issue with that — just a rational person.

actor212- let me put it another way.

“The sun is as beautiful as beaten gold.” — I have no problem with that. It’s your opinion.

“The sun is made of beaten gold.” — Truth claim. I can test it.

“Paul McCartney is the greatest pop songwriter ever.” — Again. some would disagree. Whatevs.

“Paul McCartney’s songs cure cancer.” — truth claim. Testable.

“Light moves at 300,000 km/sec” — testable. True.

“Light moves via the aether as a wave.” — testable. Not true.

I think the Bible is great literature. But pi doesn’t equal three. I think Greek mythology is great literature. But Zeus doesn’t throw thunderbolts from Olympus during storms.

Comfort -not you, by the way — Ray Comfort doesn’t get that part.

Leave the bible aloooooone!