I Got Your Greatest Generation

My buddy’s third cousin recently died in Granada, Spain. Read the obit … you will be amazed at the life of Richard Mischke. My friend only met him a few times. He was soft-spoken about his accomplishments, which included flying combat missions in three wars.

Just an incredible life. He was on another adventure when he departed it.

 

Comments: 159

 
 
Oregon Beer Snob
 

Wait, am I supposed to go for the mangoes, really?

 
Oregon Beer Snob
 

Wait, am I supposed to go for the mangoes, really?

Yep, I was.

Amazing life, I hope I go out at (or after) 88 on an adventure too

 
 

It’s a pity that Granada was misprinted as ‘Grenada’ in the obituary.

 
 

It’s guys like Richard Mischke who remind me of how little I’ve accomplished in life. May flights of angels sing him to his rest.

 
Big Bad Bald Bastard
 

But… but the Teabaggers are the true heroes!

 
 

It’s guys like Richard Mischke who remind me of how little I’ve accomplished in life.

Thanks.

I didn’t want to be the first pathetic wastrel to say this.

 
 

There’s still time, everybody. My own bucket list includes beating Deity on Civ IV!

 
 

Geg Harflunt – I know. I hate it when they do that.

 
 

I’ll probably get crucified for saying this, but it’s kind of a shame that our generation has the messes in Afghanistan and Iraq, instead of something like WWII. Not only was that war a little more morally clear, but it seemed to launch a lot of people’s deeper interest in the world, and in travel. I don’t see that happening as much with the current conflict. If anything, it seems to be making people more insular and xenophobic. I hope in six decades or so to be proved wrong.

 
 

Don’t worry, D. There is still time for you to bomb other countries in pointless wars.

 
 

I hope in six decades or so to be proved wrong.

I’m hoping in six decades or so to be gone.

 
 

it seemed to launch a lot of people’s deeper interest in the world, and in travel

Launched a bunch of people into xenophobic racism, too. I know, my parents were of that generation and their veteran friends were deeply prejudiced, particularly against our brown-skinned former enemies.

Funny about that…

I get the sense that this fella would have been exceptional whenever he lived.

 
 

D. Aristophanes

That’s an incredibly inspirational story. You must be very proud fella.

 
 

It is a very inspirational life – and death.

Personally, when I die, I hope I go peacefully, in my sleep, like Grandpa.

Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat of his car.

 
 

DAMN.

He makes Hemingway look like a girly-man.

 
 

The hallways still echo with the sound of his balls clanking together.

 
 

Wow.

There’s one thing though …. He built a dream home on one of San Antonio’s highest peaks makes me laugh. Have you been to San Antionio? “Peaks” is not the word I would choose to describe them little hills.

 
 

Excuse me, but anyone who was a fighter pilot in Viet Nam is a war criminal, not a hero.

 
 

I believe purvert ames got lost…. he belongs on the “Raping Deaf Boys” thread, not this one — fair enough, easy mistake!

 
 

fighter pilot in Viet Nam

Not too much fighter duty in Viet Nam.

Nonetheless, he was a grunt, doing what his superiors told him to do. He did his duty, as did a bunch of other grunts. Some of them supported the war, some didn’t, but they weren’t (most of them) out to commit war crimes, they were just trying to do their job and get home.

It’s pretty damned easy to sit back here and judge.

 
 

Excuse me again, but their was a lot of fighter pilot duty in Viet Nam escorting B 57s on their numerous carpet bombing raids. Stop trying to rehabilitate a heinous crime.

 
 

Escorting isn’t exactly the same as doing he bombing yourself. Also, I don’t think carpet bombing the forest is actually a war crime if it’s enemy territory.

 
 

Actually, those would be “…B-52’s on their numerous carpet bombing raids.” So, FAIL again, but anyways, let’s talk about things we don’t know. And if we’re going to judge carpet bombers, let’s not forget all the indiscriminate carpet bombing the USAAF performed in Europe, during WW2.

 
 

Well, I guess if you’re bombing Laos and Cambodia and not telling anyone, it’s not a war crime, especially if it’s “enemy territory”.

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

Well, I guess if you’re bombing Laos and Cambodia…

This person wasn’t bombing Laos and Cambodia.

 
 

Wow,

Now this is one of those “speaking ill of the dead” things. For great criminals, like Ronald Reagan, sure spout away. For Mr. Mischke…not so much.

 
 

I wasn’t referring to Laos and Cambodia I was referring to Rolling Thunder. Of course those raids were illegal.

 
 

There was so much fighter pilot duty in Nam that all of four pilots made ace status, including two WSOs. But never mind that.

I grew up in a navy town, with a NAS. The fathers of some of my friends were lost over Viet Nam. Pretty tough to call it “war crimes” when they shoot back. You want to call Nixon or Kissinger war criminals? Have at it. The guys doing the dirty work? Not so much…

 
 

Now this is one of those “speaking ill of the dead” things.

Yeah, but good manners are never a deterrent to someone eager to display their self-righteousness.

 
 

Well, there were people living in these forests, most of them innocent civilians – and bombers didn’t just target isolated forests.

What I find curious (though not unique) is the way purvis calls him a war criminal for his actions in Vietnam, but doesn’t blame him for what he did in the Korean War or World War Two. What the hell do you think our pilots did during those wars? Mass bombing, the murder of civilians, the destruction of entire cities, those were trademarks of our campaigns in Korea, Japan and Europe as well. You can argue that those wars needed to be fought and Vietnam didn’t, but that’s a very small comfort to the civilians who died under our bombs.

One of the reasons I’m a Democrat and not a Republican is that I acknowledge there’s more to the world than black and white. I thought Republicans were fucking stupid when they were prancing around calling every single insurgent in the Middle East a “terrorist” and a “radical” who “hates our freedoms;” dismissing every pilot who served in Vietnam as a “war criminal” smells of that same mentality to me.

 
 

Can’t snark this. No fair.

 
 

Okay, I’ll give you the Korean War but we were actually attacked in WWII. I don’t recall southest Asia attacking us.

 
 

Bombing open cities isn’t legal just because you’re doing it for revenge. There is no ‘he started it’ clause in the UN charter.

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

I thought Republicans were fucking stupid when they were prancing around calling every single insurgent in the Middle East a “terrorist” and a “radical” who “hates our freedoms;” dismissing every pilot who served in Vietnam as a “war criminal” smells of that same mentality to me.

Agreed. I find it exasperating that the Right insists on labeling, say, bin Laden’s driver a war criminal and terrorist. While the driver is no saint, he’s, well, a *driver*, and a guy who is probably just trying to earn a living in a country where “a living” means the difference between life and death. Capture him, sure; interrogate him, sure; but to put him in the same category as bin Laden, KSM, the (first) shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, etc., is preposterous.

This man does not even rise to the level of bin Laden’s driver. He flew a plane in a war that we now consider to have been a great wrong. He was a combat pilot, shooting people who were willing and able to shoot back at him. He didn’t blow away children, he didn’t napalm villages, he wasn’t there at My Lai.

There are probably tens of thousands of people at VA hospitals or VFW posts who have similar stories about Vietnam. One could call them out as war criminals if one so desired, but I would not be surprised if they (and their families) lumped you in with the sort of people who spat on returning veterans back in the 60s and 70s.

 
 

Am I the only one picking up on this?:

“He was such a wonderful individual, so complex, and had so many different avenues,” his niece said. A lifelong bachelor, “He was always dashing.”

“A lifelong bachelor”? With “so many differnt avenues”?

Sounds like a closeted gay man, fearless about facing any danger except admitting who he was. What a shame that he would never have had the chance to become such an accomplished aviator if his orientation had become known.

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

On to another (and more interesting) topic. Conrad Black, the felon and former news magnate who is responsible for inflicting Mark Steyn on the world, recently critiqued an article on American exceptionalism. Jonah Goldberg responded with his habitual idiocies, and now Black has critiqued the critique of his critique of the original article. The details aren’t all that important, really; what’s important is that Black is ridiculing Jonah into oblivion:

Not quite so easily accommodated are the reflections of Jonah Goldberg. I clearly struck a raw nerve in my reference to the Revolutionary War as, in part, “a rather grubby contest about taxes,” when Britain asked the colonists to pay a representative share of the costs of ejecting France from Canada in the Seven Years’ War. He raises this hoary point four times in a short piece, like a hyperactive cuckoo clock. In his wrath, he even accuses Rich Lowry of letting me “off the hook,” claps his cyber-hand to his furrowed forehead, and exclaims “Oh please,” like Truman Capote arguing with Kenneth Tynan….

 
 

OMG! This just came over the TV machine:

Officials said the man, identified by ABC News as Mohammed al Modadi, was subdued by plain clothes air marshals on United Airlines flight 663 after officials suspected he was attempting to “light his shoes on fire” and detonate explosives.

Half an hour before United Airlines Flight 663 was due to land in Denver carrying 157 passengers and six crew, a plain clothes air marshal smelled smoke and confronted the man, who had spent an extended period of time in the lavatory.

Bomb-sniffing dogs however found no traces of explosives aboard the aircraft, and security officials did not confirm that an attempted act of terrorism had taken place. Amid conflicting reports, CNN said explosives had not been found in his shoes.

Turns out he was sneaking a fag in the toilet. Also turns out he’s a Qatari diplomat, so has full immunity.

 
 

Thanks for that Conrad Black paragraph. I had a similar reaction a week or two ago when reading God knows which conservative pundit going on about how America was founded in adversity and that was something those Eurotrash and whatnot just didn’t understand –

Look. I’m not excusing taxation without representation (I’m from DC, man), but if you were living in 1775 and that was the worst thing that had ever happened to you, you were one spoiled son of a bitch. There were people in France literally starving in the streets at the time of their revolution; they lived under an absolutist regime that made King George III look like Oliver Wendell Holmes; and they had to fight their revolution with the whole of Europe arraigned against them (unlike the Americans, there was no friendly European power to bail them out at Yorktown). And the rest of the continent was as bad as France or worse, its people having to fight tooth and nail during the next two centuries for the basic right to vote.

That’s what’s known as adversity, my friend. In comparison, calling the American revolution “a rather grubby contest about taxes” doesn’t seem completely off the mark.

 
 

I will always applaud Ted Rall for slapping ‘the greatest generation’ in a cartoon back in the 90s. But there’s no way to be snarky or say anything disrespectful about this amazing gentleman.

 
 

what’s important is that Black is ridiculing Jonah into oblivion

Heh:

Mr. Goldberg knows perfectly well […]

And Mr. Goldberg must also know […]

Twist that knife!

 
 

Speaking of senseless destruction, I admire Virginia’s attempt to bring to light and celebrate the stupidity that was the American Civil War — a Treasonous Failure to keep the Southern US as a Slave-Based Economy.

It takes a big man to admit that his most reverent heroes were slave-owning traitors.

 
 

I’ve never read that speech before, that’s awesome.

“Sure,if black people were equal then slavery would be wrong but they’re not because I said so. Shut up because I said so! Fine call me crazy you know who else they called crazy,Galileo. You’re the real crazy one!”

Wait, this type of reasoning seems familiar…

 
 

There is still time for you to bomb other countries in pointless wars.

Been there, done that.

 
 

purvis, dont be such an asshole. Where has debating the legal semantics of war got us…….

As for the Conrad Black bitchslap of Johan, absolutly magic. Conrad is a complete wanker, but when it comes down to history, he’s pretty on the ball. Pity it didn’t rub off on his home boy, Steyn.

 
 

my parents were of that generation and their veteran friends were deeply prejudiced, particularly against our brown-skinned former enemies.

Um, yeah, but it’s somewhat hard to get after them too much. My dad was on Guadalcanal for months then in New Zealand to get over the dysentery, malaria etc. and he got better just in time to go to Iwo Jima, so, yeah he was prejudiced but also postjudiced.
Poor Jonah, if he wasn’t around, he would have to be invented.

 
 

The Imperial Japanese Army was, to put it mildly, a pretty nasty bunch.

Most guys who faced them in combat came back with a rather intense dislike for the Japanese.

Some of the things they did to the Koreans would have made Heinrich Himmler blush.

 
 

I was going to snark at Mr. purvis last night, then decided against it – to find out you guys have done an admirable job in my absence.

Raises for everyone!

(Oh, and BTW: people spitting on returning veterans? Never happened, at least not that anyone can actually document.)

 
 

Good lord, Alexander Stephens is a hardcore Republican.

All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.

“Liberals are the real insane and fanatic people, because they don’t come to the same conclusion as me. Now, that just ain’t right, folks.” Pick any topic – global warming, universal health care, whether or not Sarah Palin said thanks but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere, “I’m not you are!” is the cornerstone of Republicans attempting to debate (always an interesting sight, kinda like a dog walking on its hind legs).

Thousands of people who begin to understand these truths are not yet completely out of the shell; they do not see them in their length and breadth. We hear much of the civilization and Christianization of the barbarous tribes of Africa. In my judgment, those ends will never be attained, but by first teaching them the lesson taught to Adam, that “in the sweat of his brow he should eat his bread,” and teaching them to work, and feed, and clothe themselves.

And, of course, the pompous lectures to darkies about the value of hard and honest work – this from the same people who reap the benefits of their work for no particular reason other than an accident of birth.

We have intelligence, and virtue, and patriotism. All that is required is to cultivate and perpetuate these. Intelligence will not do without virtue. France was a nation of philosophers. These philosophers become Jacobins. They lacked that virtue, that devotion to moral principle, and that patriotism which is essential to good government

And of course, the obligatory jab at France and the assertion that, as a PJTV commentator posted a couple months back, “you can’t have freedom without morality” (he went on to explain this was why democracy in the Arab world and by extension any nation that doesn’t agree with him shouldn’t be allowed).

The principles and position of the present administration of the United States the republican party present some puzzling questions. While it is a fixed principle with them never to allow the increase of a foot of slave territory, they seem to be equally determined not to part with an inch “of the accursed soil.” Notwithstanding their clamor against the institution, they seemed to be equally opposed to getting more, or letting go what they have got. They were ready to fight on the accession of Texas, and are equally ready to fight now on her secession. Why is this? How can this strange paradox be accounted for? There seems to be but one rational solution and that is, notwithstanding their professions of humanity, they are disinclined to give up the benefits they derive from slave labor.

And again the attempt to divine evil, dark and Commuslimunist motives behind every liberal move. They really and truly can’t process the idea that there are people out there who might actually think darkies are human beings, therefore, as usual, it must all be about them.

 
 

Sounds like a closeted gay man, fearless about facing any danger except admitting who he was. What a shame that he would never have had the chance to become such an accomplished aviator if his orientation had become known.

I wish people would stop jumping to the conclusion that people who never marry are closeted. There are a variety of reasons some people never marry; for some of us it’s simply the recognition that we aren’t cut out for it. FWIW, this man’s wide range of interests makes it sound quite possible that he may have had Asperger’s, and there are quite a few individuals at the more introverted/introspective/autistic end of the spectrum who don’t marry.

Just as being married is no proof that a person is heterosexual (Jim McGreavy, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, too many personal acquaintances to name), being unmarried is no proof that they are gay.

 
 

the assertion that, as a PJTV commentator posted a couple months back, “you can’t have freedom without morality”

Well, maybe not, actually, but “morality” =/= “Christian morality”, which is the point I’m sure he’s trying to make.

 
 

Purvis,

We don’t hate the troops in Vietnam anymore than we hate the troops in Iraq.

They were (are) given a horrible job to do, under the threat of very very nasty and brutal retaliation if they do not carry out orders.

Hate the war? Hell yea, but I’m not about to hate someone who followed orders in a time of war, barring an extraordinary circumstance.

 
 

Now, to snark:

He died in Spain, right?

Spain has national healthcare, right?

HE DIED A SOCIALIST!

 
 

Turns out he was sneaking a fag in the toilet.

Steerpike…CIGARETTE, he was sneaking a cigarette in the loo! That’s how we say it in the States!

The way you said it, sounds like he was teh ghey, which clearly never happens in the US, or its airspace.

 
 

Good one. That made me feel good about people.

Now can we please get back to how stupid Jonah Goldberg is? I need some yucks.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Now can we please get back to how stupid Jonah Goldberg is? I need some yucks.

Yeah, I need a “shorter” for that mess up there, as I really can’t be arsed to read all of it.

 
 

Steerpike…CIGARETTE, he was sneaking a cigarette in the loo! That’s how we say it in the States!

Evidently he also made comments about shoe bombs, so they HAD HAD HAD to arrest him as a dangerous brown possibly-terrorist person.

“comments” probably something along the lines of “WTF you idiots think I have a shoe bomb or something?” but the Arab man said a “B” WORD and they’re all radical terrorists as you know so he HAD HAD HAD to be arrested!

One wonders if he would have gotten this treatment if he were an actual terrorist – just a white Teabagger militia type. Fuck, who am I kidding – he’d get his own damn show on CNN.

 
 

Oh, I understood the arrest, and had no real problem with it. Better safe than sorry, no doubt. They’ve decided not to file charges, so no real harm, no foul.

I’m just curious if maybe there was a language thing: he tried to communicate something like “It took me a moment to put out the lighted cigarette against my shoe” but it came out slightly garbled and seemed like, to a panicked FA, “I was trying to light my shoe”.

 
 

claps his cyber-hand to his furrowed forehead, and exclaims “Oh please,” like Truman Capote arguing with Kenneth Tynan….

He raised Capote/Tynan?

Oh no, he din’t!?!?!

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Maybe I’m equally racist, but I pretty much expect Arab men to smell like smoke. And I haven’t smelled I’m-lighting-my-shoes-on-fire smoke before, but Jesus Christ, I have to imagine it smells distinctly different from cigarette smoke.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Oh, I had the story wrong. I get it now–doesn’t seem totally unreasonable. Don’t smoke on the plane, dude!

 
 

I love how Jonah raises the ghost of Edmund Burke and then manages to draw precisely the wrong conclusion.

Burke was for America, it’s true, in its revolution and against the French Revolution, but Jonah doesn’t pierce Burke’s veil (VPR) on this.

Burke opposed the French Revolution for precisely the reason he supported America: France was a populist revolution, while America was a revolt of the landed gentry, the aristocracy.

Burke was a plutocrat, you see. Moreover, he had something to hide: his religion, being Catholic at a time when that meant he was a minority not unlike slaves in America. In America, he saw a land where he could be a moneygrubbing little fuck without having to hide his Catholicism, whereas in France, he would likely have been strung up by the peasants and Robespierre.

Who we kidding, JoeNAH?

 
 

Check it out: this guy will be a target of Teabaggers and NeoCons for life: Conrad Black is the author of Franklin Delano Roosevelt: Champion of Freedom

 
 

America was a revolt of the landed gentry, the aristocracy.

In some parts of America, yes. In most parts of America, no.

 
 

No harm, no foul? After scrambling fighter jets and diverting the flight and ruining all the other passenger’s trip?

Aren’t there a bunch of scary warning in the airplane crapper about the serious consequences of lighting up? IOKIYQ

 
 

In some parts of America, yes. In most parts of America, no.

Considering something on the order of 15% of American colonialists even supported the Revolution, I’d argue that it was all of America.

 
 

No harm, no foul?

No real harm, no foul.

 
 

Aren’t there a bunch of scary warning in the airplane crapper about the serious consequences of lighting up?

You’re talking about a group of people who smoke, despite the warnings on a pack of cigarettes. You really think that urge is going to stop there?

 
 

From the American Drinker: Health care is rape.

 
 

From Jennifer’s link:

A frequent AT contributor, Robin is a recovering liberal and a psychotherapist in Berkeley.

I think I see the problem.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

From the American Drinker: Health care is rape.

sdarfhawe8 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrawsdiz as89[[[ q3[2q 3h

Sorry about that. I just banged my head against my keyboard about six times…

 
 

Considering something on the order of 15% of American colonialists even supported the Revolution, I’d argue that it was all of America.

Where did you get the figure 15%? Did the source you got it from describe how they came up with a percentage? The late 18th Century wasn’t famous for its advanced polling techniques. Does the percentage apply to all of British America or to a specific region? Does it apply to the entire Revolutionary era or to a specific time frame? What exactly does ‘supported the Revolution’ mean – direct, active support or just sympathy?

Seriously, if someone is making a legitimate argument that it was 15%, I’d be interested in checking it out. I have to admit I’m skeptical that anyone can quantify this sort of thing. General sympathy for the Revolution was very fluid over time and varied tremendously region to region. Which social groups supported it also varied radically different from region to region.

John Adams later famously wrote that a third supported it, a third opposed it, and a third didn’t care… but he was pretty obviously pulling those proportions out of his ass.

And if there’s an area outside of parts of the South where it could accurately be said that the Revolution was ‘a revolt of the landed gentry’, I’d be interested in knowing where. There may very well be such places, but I can’t think of any offhand. Parts of upstate New York, maybe?

 
 

Snor,

We can infer a percentage from the fact that many colonies issued laws that effectively demanded people choose sides.

 
 

We can infer a percentage from the fact that many colonies issued laws that effectively demanded people choose sides.

Sorry, I don’t understand. What laws do you mean?

 
 

We could start with the militia codes, which effectively conscripted people to fight.

Hardly necessary if there was popular support.

 
 

I wish people would stop jumping to the conclusion that people who never marry are closeted.

And then:

this man’s wide range of interests makes it sound quite possible that he may have had Asperger’s,

Win.

 
 

Snor, the fifteen percent I cite is not a published number. It’s an observation on my part based, partly, on Adams’ figure (which you poo-poo, but I give some credence to) and partly on observations of political and human history and the rules of thumb therein.

80% of the work in any endeavour is done by 20% of the people, for example.

If anything, as to Adams’ number, I think he grossly overstates both support AND opposition to the Revolution. I think the largest number of people end up, as they inevitably do, in the mushy middle.

People don’t really give a rats’ ass about this cause or that cause, so long as they can do what they have to to make a living. Where Adams’ gives that number equal weight to the extremists, I tend to think that number actually ends up being two-thirds of the population.

Which leaves somewhere between 15 and 20% at either end of the spectrum.

I choose the lower number, because until Washington started to win some battles, many later supporters for the Revolution remained loyalists out of common sense and practicality.

It’s not a whole lot different than what we’re seeing in the Republican party today, where people are being peeled off or forced to confirm their support of some egregious nonsense.

 
 

We could start with the militia codes, which effectively conscripted people to fight. Hardly necessary if there was popular support.

All able-bodied men were obliged to be in the militia back to the early colonial days, at least in theory, although I don’t think those regulations were enforced in settled areas during peacetime. And the authorities didn’t really have a way of enforcing them at all in peace or in war if the regulations were unpopular – without a professional army or police force the only force making anyone obey would be community opinion, and community opinion only works if a large and motivated part of the community supports what you’re trying to enforce.

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

No harm, no foul? After scrambling fighter jets and diverting the flight and ruining all the other passenger’s trip?

Aren’t there a bunch of scary warning in the airplane crapper about the serious consequences of lighting up? IOKIYQ

Well, IOKIYHDI–it’s okay if you have diplomatic immunity, which this guy did. I’m hoping that he gets sent back to Qatar, frankly–it’s not that he committed some egregious crime (he didn’t), but he’s clearly not all that good at diplomacy if he’s dumb enough to smoke in an airplane toilet.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

This is nice and all, but when are we going to talk about Tom Friedman’s knowledge of holes????

 
 

community opinion only works if a large and motivated part of the community supports what you’re trying to enforce.

I’m not sure I agree with this. See my next comment to you: if most people don’t give a damn, they’ll go with the squeaky wheels.

 
 

Tom Friedman’s knowledge of holes

Was he counting at Albert Hall?

 
Progressive Center Left Grrl Voice of Truth
 

T&U: It’s a good link.

Only a matter of time before world-travlin’ Tom starts reporting his fictitious conversations with streetwalkers instead of taxi drivers.

 
Progressive Center Left Grrl Voice of Truth
 

Though I’m still trying to figure out what nuggets of advice Tom will put in the mouths of the world’s sex workers.

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

(Oh, and BTW: people spitting on returning veterans? Never happened, at least not that anyone can actually document.)

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

The way you said it, sounds like he was teh ghey, which clearly never happens in the US, or its airspace.

Unless you’re Larry Craig, who in some sense really did (allegedly) sneak a fag in the loo.

Check it out: this guy will be a target of Teabaggers and NeoCons for life:

I think he’s (still) rich enough that it doesn’t matter.

I wish people would stop jumping to the conclusion that people who never marry are closeted.

Quite. Some people are so committed to their independence that they don’t want to settle down. My grandfather was like this for a while, actually; he was in the merchant marine and was going to spend his life traveling from place to place. Then one day his mother and my grandmother basically cornered him and told him it was time to knock it off. He did. Other people wouldn’t’ve.

 
 

Though I’m still trying to figure out what nuggets of advice Tom will put in the mouths ram down the throats of the world’s sex workers.

Fixed!

 
 

This dude was a great man. Alas, most of the so-called greatest generation were not. Hunter Thompson gave them their proper moniker long before Brokaw decided to tongue polish their assholes: The Generation of Swine.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Was he counting at Albert Hall?

I had no idea what this was about and had to Google it. /embarrassed

 
 

(Oh, and BTW: people spitting on returning veterans? Never happened, at least not that anyone can actually document.)

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Two important points:

1) The author is not claiming no liberal / hippie ever spit on a returning soldier; just that if it did happen it was not significant enough to be documented in any way (which does seem kind of far-fetched, given the media in some ways was just as bad as it is now).

2) I believe he DOES document some angry encounters with soldiers, but the catch is – the angry (and possibly spitting – it’s been a while since I read it) ones were conservatives pissed about how the military wasn’t ruthless ENOUGH. (And the liberals in fact did the famous coffehouses and outreaches to the military; far from calling them all baby-killers they were actually giving them support when no one else would.)

 
 

I had no idea what this was about and had to Google it. /embarrassed

I’m sorry but we need to confiscate your Pop Culture license.

 
 

I had no idea what this was about and had to Google it. /embarrassed

I’d love to turn you on.

 
 

What fosters rape? [a bunch of stuff, plus:] A media that celebrates debauchery, that entertains through degrading and objectifying. Popular rap songs and cool hip-hop artists whose words slice and dice women. Films where anything goes, where hot lesbian sex scenes are as omnipresent as those boneheaded authority figures.

Right. Because there was no rape before hip-hop or teh sexxay movies.

No fair, this is impossible to snark.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Don’t hate me, but I’m really not the biggest Beatles fan. And I don’t really like Sargent Pepper’s at all…I am a heathen.

 
 

Don’t hate me, but I’m really not the biggest Beatles fan.

I CAST THEE OUT UNLCEAN SPIRIT!

😉

 
 

Though I’m still trying to figure out what nuggets of advice Tom will put in the mouths of the world’s sex workers.

Avoid overweight Americans.

 
 

My and your auntie spirit used to take you to those beatles rock concerts all the time and you loved it!

 
 

I CAST THEE OUT UNLCEAN SPIRIT!

Wow, you really DO need an exorcism.

 
 

Avoid overweight Americans.

…with mustaches.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

nuggets of advice Tom will put in the mouths of the world’s sex workers.

Veiled ejaculation reference?

Also, ewwwwww.

 
 

Veiled ejaculation reference?

We’re talking about TF, so almost certainly not. He writes like a man who hasn’t ejaculated since the Reagan administration.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

My and your auntie spirit used to take you to those beatles rock concerts all the time and you loved it!

No, I think you’re thinking of second-cousin spirit.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

He writes like a man who hasn’t ejaculated since the Reagan administration.

Well, of course! He is holding back his bodily fluids for the day Zombie Reagan becomes president. Isn’t everybody doing that?

 
 

No, I think you’re thinking of second-cousin spirit.

No, auntie. She was an Old Crow.

 
 

He writes like a man who hasn’t ejaculated since the Reagan administration.

What about all those goats?

 
 

What about all those goats?

He may have fucked them, but he never came.

Understand? He never came…

 
 

Sorry, I aint gonna go wading through no stinky swamp looking for mustachioed mangoes. Will some please supply the tl;dr for me?

 
 

…Tom starts reporting his fictitious conversations with streetwalkers instead of taxi drivers.

The title of the resulting article is obvious: “The First Rule of Whores”

…although I don’t know how he could stretch “No kissing” into 1500 words.

 
 

…although I don’t know how he could stretch “No kissing” into 1500 words.

We’re talking Tom Friedman here, for whom six months is eight years and counting.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

He may have fucked them, but he never came.

What a monster. The only thing sicker than bestiality is joyless bestiality.

 
 

The only thing sicker than bestiality is joyless bestiality.

Which part of humourless dildo was unlcear to you?

 
 

Burke opposed the French Revolution for precisely the reason he supported America: France was a populist revolution, while America was a revolt of the landed gentry, the aristocracy.

To be fair, I think the French revolution was objectively worse than the American one (and I say this as a Frenchman), although it certainly lay the ground for the emergence of democracy over the next century, not just in France but throughout Europe. I don’t think there’s any parallel to Robespierre and Marat’s reign of terror in the American revolution, nor did the American republic immediately turn into an empire as the French one did (before being forcibly overthrown and returned to status quo ante).

The French revolution was less successful and a hell of a lot nastier than the American one, even if its objectives might have been more populist and more noble. In its defense, though, the American people hadn’t suffered nearly as much or as long as the French had – like I posted on the other thread, if you were living in 1775 and the worst thing that had ever happened to you was taxation without representation, by the standards of most of the continent you were one pampered son of a bitch.

 
 

hey actor – saw your droppings over at Weigel’s.

Good job.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Which part of humourless dildo was unlcear to you?

Eh, I’m not really a big fan of glass dildos.

Wait. What are we talking about here?

 
 

It’s guys like Richard Mischke who remind me of how little I’ve accomplished in life. May flights of angels sing him to his rest.

I used to think “I wonder what The Crocodile Hunter is doing right now” while I was at work. Of course, he was probably asleep because of the time difference, but I bet he was sleeping someplace cool.

Sounds like a closeted gay man, fearless about facing any danger except admitting who he was.

or just maybe:

Just give you a song and a one-night stand
And you’ll be looking at a happy man
Cause you’re the lucky one

I was married once, I don’t really plan on it again.

My own bucket list includes beating Deity on Civ IV!

My goal is to stop playing civ games, lol. And diety is micromanaging to an insane degree, it just doesn’t seem fun anymore. I miss the old Genghis Kahn strategies. Which is why I’m hooked on that scenario in the Warlords expansion, even though it still isn’t the same.

I still dream of a new Master of Magic and Master of Orion 2 (3 sucked like Mickey Kaus at a petting zoo)

 
 

Scar my tattered goat no more with your humorless dildo mallet!

 
 

I still dream of a new Master of Magic

Oh, IF ONLY…

*sigh*

we’ll always have dosbox.

 
 

…goal is to stop playing civ games, lol. And diety is micromanaging to an insane degree, it just doesn’t seem fun anymore. I miss the old Genghis Kahn strategies. Which is why I’m hooked on that scenario in the Warlords expansion, even though it still isn…

NERD!

 
 

hey actor – saw your droppings over at Weigel’s.

Refresh my mammary: where?

 
 

I believe he DOES document some angry encounters with soldiers, but the catch is – the angry (and possibly spitting – it’s been a while since I read it) ones were conservatives pissed about how the military wasn’t ruthless ENOUGH.

I have had Vietnam vets say they were excluded by the VFW and AL crowds because they didn’t win.

 
 

NERD!

shit, I outed myself.

 
 

Scar my tattered goat no more with your humorless dildo mallet!

And frog blast the vent core, while you’re at it.

 
 

actor – Dave Weigel, WaPo’s “Inside the conservative movement” blog.

 
 

Which, BTW, is a fun place to serious-troll. I set them off pretty good yesterday.

 
 

Oh!

Right, I remember that. Thanks, Jennifer.

 
 

the “lol” combined with “strategeries” and “gheyngis khan scenarios” gave it away.

 
 

Because there was no rape before hip-hop or teh sexxay movies.

I wouldn’t necessarily claim a direct causal link, but misogynistic cultural elements certainly aren’t helpful. See various oppressive cultures worldwide and throughout history for extreme examples. Popular music of the hip and/or hop variety obviously isn’t the source of such sentiments, but they do help perpetuate them.

Citing THE EXACT OPPOSITE THING (sex-positive culture) in the same breath is full of stupid, though.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Which, BTW, is a fun place to serious-troll. I set them off pretty good yesterday.

I’m glad that other people enjoy doing this. I thought there was something wrong with me.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Popular music of the hip and/or hop variety obviously isn’t the source of such sentiments, but they do help perpetuate them.

Yeah, but it’s fucking dumb to blame such a thing on liberals. I think we can lay that at the feet of heterosexism, racism, and capitalism, which aren’t really cornerstones of liberal ideology.

Citing THE EXACT OPPOSITE THING (sex-positive culture) in the same breath is full of stupid, though.

*Any* depiction of sex is bad, even if it’s a positive depiction of sex. The problem isn’t that the images are actually harmful to women; the problem is that they may encourage women not to behave how they’re supposed to.

Plus, what mainstream movie has had explicit depictions of lesbian sex recently??? The last one I can think of was Mulholland Drive, and I doubt most wingnuts have even heard of David Lynch.

 
 

I still dream of a new Master of Magic

Elemental looks really good. I’m all preordered and waiting to get into the second phase of beta.

and Master of Orion 2 (3 sucked like Mickey Kaus at a petting zoo)

A MOO that’s beatable by simply clicking turn over and over again, is scarcely a MOO at all.

One of my game ideas that’s been cooking in the back of my head but I’ll probably never get around to working on: a 4X space strategy game which simulates a plausible daily life of the Galactic Space Emperor, or whatever you’re supposed to be in such games. So your primary concerns include politics, policy, diplomacy, and broad strategy. You’re not micromanaging fleets and planetary housing development. You delegate that shit.

MOO3 was just about the worst possible implementation of that idea this side of an Excel spreadsheet.

 
 

Plus, what mainstream movie has had explicit depictions of lesbian sex recently??? The last one I can think of was Mulholland Drive, and I doubt most wingnuts have even heard of David Lynch.

This aint exactly following but in a similar vein, the Ho and I were discussing, just last night, the astonishing (to us old farts, that is) number of gay characters on teevee these days. More, ZOMG there are, apparently, a handful of gay teen characters – high school students!!! And you know what? The AFA and their ilk aren’t boycotting the advertisers. They aren’t flooding ABC et al. with letters of outrage.

We take it to mean, we’ve won. It’s not over but we have won.

 
 

We take it to mean, we’ve won. It’s not over but we have won.

I would agree. Not over, no, but now most of the outrage is the impotent (VNFPR) shaking of tiny fists.

This makes me happy, BTW.

 
 

B4 u ax: “Veiled Non-Functional Penis Reference”

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

We take it to mean, we’ve won. It’s not over but we have won.

Yup. 🙂 I think that’s also why there’s this huge rush to outlaw same-sex marriage; they’re not just fearing gay marriage–they’re also fearing the demographic shift toward acceptance of queerness in general.

 
 

…if you were living in 1775 and the worst thing that had ever happened to you was taxation without representation, by the standards of most of the continent you were one pampered son of a bitch.

Watch out. You’re stimulating my inner windbag again.

Obviously, it’s true that European peasants had it very, very rough back in the day… but life wasn’t soft in Revolutionary Era America. Even before 1775, times were tough, with sustained serious economic problems brought on in part by heavy-handed British regulatory measures. And then there was eight years of destructive and highly disruptive war with military operations in every state but Delaware. And after that there were several more years of political disorder and very severe economic hardship. Overall, I’d say it was probably the roughest time in American history with the exception of the Civil War. I don’t think many people felt pampered.

And ‘no taxation without representation’ was just a slogan. The Revolution was about a lot more than tax issues.

 
 

they’re also fearing the demographic shift toward acceptance of queerness in general.

Along with the demographic shifts toward non-white majorities. Frank Rich had a good column a week or so on this topic.

Shorter Wingnut: “TOO MUCH CHANGE! BRANE HURTZ!”

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Shorter Wingnut: “TOO MUCH CHANGE! BRANE HURTZ!”

Hey, isn’t that pretty much what “I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!!!” is?

They know they’re losing. Hopefully they won’t take the rest of us down with them before they die.

 
 

Shorter Wingnut: “TOO MUCH CHANGE! BRANE BUTT HURTZ!”

fizixxed for great relevance

 
 

Not to get back on topic …

[He] flew 67 combat missions in P-38 aircraft in the southwest Pacific Theater of Operations. In the Korean War, I flew 100 combat missions in jet fighters and 274 combat missions in jet fighters in Vietnam, a record at that time.

Holy crap.

I hope the guy’s callsign was “Ghost Hotburner” — nothing could apparently see him, nor wanted to touch him.

Very, very impressive life.

 
 

fizixxed for great relevance

Yeah, I left that out there cause strike-through tags were feeling under-represented around here.

 
 

I thought there was something wrong with me [for serious-trolling].

I feel obliged to point out: not mutually exclusive.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

I thought there was something wrong with me [for serious-trolling].

I feel obliged to point out: not mutually exclusive.

Of course not. I *know* there’s something wrong with me. I can just cross that particular item off the list.

 
 

I *know* there’s something wrong with me.

On topic: if you want to fly missions, you must be insane, so you’re grounded. If you don’t want to fly missions, you’re sane, so you have to fly.

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

They know they’re losing. Hopefully they won’t take the rest of us down with them before they die.

I sometimes think that Maggie Gallagher et al. would be perfectly happy to tear the whole country to pieces so they didn’t have to give in to gay marriage.

We take it to mean, we’ve won. It’s not over but we have won.

Agreed. For me, the moment came when some conservative mouthpiece or other–National Review? I can’t remember–published an utterly lame editorial against gay marriage that conceded every major point that the gay-marriage advocates made. It went something like this: “Granted, gay marriage isn’t going to affect a huge number of people; granted, gay marriage isn’t going to have an effect on straight marriage; granted, society isn’t going to crumble into dust if gay marriage is enacted; granted, straight people can get married even if they’re not going to have children; granted, the advocates of gay marriage are generally sincere and well-intentioned people…but, well, we just don’t like it. Because we don’t.”

I suppose that’s a little unfair; the authors fell back on some sort of flimsy natural-law argument in which they claimed that “marriage is between a man and a woman” was a truth on the order of “the earth goes around the sun.” The trouble with such arguments, of course, is that “natural law” (in the sense that they mean it) doesn’t really exist–it’s an amalgam of prejudices, cultural beliefs, religious and social indoctrination, and the like, and it can change over time. Grounding an argument in that kind of natural law is like jumping out of a plane and hoping to land on a cloud; at a glance, it looks like it might work, but it leads to a nasty surprise at the end.

They essentially fell back on some sort of lame natural-law argument,

 
Trilateral Chairman
 

oops, damnit. Ignore that last phrase at the end. I HATE it when I don’t clean up my leftovers.

 
Xecky Gilchrist
 

they claimed that “marriage is between a man and a woman” was a truth on the order of “the earth goes around the sun.”

Heh. They or their readers may not necessarily accept the second one there.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

it looks like it might work, but it leads to a nasty surprise at the end.

Ultimately, society progresses enough that you look like a backwards, ignorant asshole if you try to make that type of argument. Any intellectually honest and/or halfway intelligent conservative* knows this.

*Oxymoron, I know.

 
Death Panel Truck
 

Conrad is a complete wanker, but when it comes down to history, he’s pretty on the ball.

Read “Richard M. Nixon: A Life In Full,” and then come back here and try to say that again with a straight face. 1,050 pages, and every one of them smeared with bullshit.

 
 

sustained serious economic problems brought on in part by heavy-handed British regulatory measures

Teabagger!

 
The Goddamn Batman Will Dust Off The Batplane And Get Together A "Missing Man" Formation In His Honor, Although He May Need To Fill It Out With Some GCPD Helicopters
 

Damn. Sounds like the guy was a real mensch.

 
 

Teabagger!

I demand to see George III’s birth certificate!

 
 

I demand to see George III’s birth certificate!

Patents. You want to see his patents…

 
 

Which, BTW, is a fun place to serious-troll. I set them off pretty good yesterday.

Oh, my. That does look entertaining.

I’m pretty sure “Bush2” over there is a parody troll. At least I hope so.

 
 

they claimed that “marriage is between a man and a woman” was a truth on the order of “the earth goes around the sun.”

Silly. Sun sets under the edge of the flat earth. Been that way since Jeebus pulled the thorn out of the T-rex’s paw.

Reed yor’re Bibble, MORAN!

 
 

If your brane hurts you’re in serious danger of inter-universe leakage.

 
The Goddamn Batman Is Insane In The Membrane
 

Brane and brane! What is brane?

 
 

An amalgam of prejudices and cultural beliefs? Religious and social indoctrination?

They’re all for these things!

 
 

Brane and brane! What is brane?

See those zombies shambling up behind you? They’ll show you.

 
 

Conrad is a complete wanker, but when it comes down to history, he’s pretty on the ball.

Read “Richard M. Nixon: A Life In Full,” and then come back here and try to say that again with a straight face. 1,050 pages, and every one of them smeared with bullshit.

 
 

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