And all them naked mens! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

“Virginal”? Right.

Heh. Indeed.

I’ma gonna bookmark this.

Abandon all hope, ye who fall off teh boat.
~

Also, I’m reporting Sadly, No! and all others associated with the production of this porno video to the O.S.H.A.

OSHA!
~

Do you smell it? Do you smell it in the air? It isn’t a pleasant smell. In fact, it reeks of stale tea, urine, pain, tears, shame and failure. And it grows stronger. Thankfully it’s raining here in Atlanta, and I hope this fetid brown mixture of cowardice and defeat vanishes down the gutters soon.

Since we all know Tw00fie’s lurking, I bet a ton of teabags that he “rubbed one out” while watching that clip.

You do mean celebrating the death of the progressive movement, right?

I was not a supporter of this bill before, but now that women and their rights have been thrown under the bus by the president I find this bill utterly evil.

Get tiny table scraps for some people at the loss of rights for roughly have the US population. Even if the numbers are right, (which I doubt) 30 million versus roughly 150 million sucks.

What a shitty day.

Punchbowl, meet (t)urdsama! Just kidding, urdsama … but look, let us have our little victory dance and we’ll re-hook up in a few days to bash the bill. On the Stupak executive order — I’m hearing that it’s more cover for Bart & Co. than toothsome.

You mean “Obambicare” is likely to pass after all…? But… but… the voices told me it wouldn’t! I even laughed at you all for saying you’d bookmark my claims, because despite the abysmal track record of the voices, I just knew this time they’d be right! And now I’ve climbed up onto this mountain of insanity and tried to make a stand hundreds of feet away from any solid ground, what… what am I supposed to do now?!

I’m not in the habit of reading too much into hollow symbolism used as a figleaf to allow an asshole to stand down without too much loss of face, urdsama. The resolution you cast as some great horror in effect has no effect whatsoever, because the restrictions on funding for elective abortion were already in the bill.

Much ado about nothing.

Thankfully it’s raining here in Atlanta, and I hope this fetid brown mixture of cowardice and defeat vanishes down the gutters soon.

Hey El Cid, go down to Taco Mac and knock back a couple.

You do mean celebrating the death of the progressive movement, right?

Christ, such theatrics. Don’t you have some sackcloth to rend?

So when the President goes on the teevee to announce the passing of the bill, will he have his jacket on or off?

Stupak, along with Lincoln, will face stiff competition in a primary, now’s the time to ramp up your involvement in the political process. The progressive movement is far from dead, but thanks for your concern.

Also. Too. Bonus points for the combination of a shirtless young & virile Charlatan Heston exchanging longing looks with another male actor in a clip containing the word “ramming”.

And. Also because he had an oar handle in his hands, as opposed to a gun, which no doubt was long ago torn from his cold, dead hands.

Yup. I’ve already contributed to both Saltonstall and Halter, and will be doing so again.

In the immortal words of Giles, from the BTVS musical episode:

The battle’s done
And we kind of won
So we’ll sound our victory cheer

The fact is, the next Ameican Tebag Heartland Revolution begins now….

Oh God, I had a girthy health care reform package shoved down my throat… and I liked it.

Does this mean I’m bipartisan?

Just saw an ad on CNN by some group urging people to call Congress to “stop health care before it’s too late”.

Oops.

Oh shit, is it Easter again?

The battle’s done / And we kind of won / So we’ll sound our victory cheer

Well sung, Ripper!

“Kind of won” is right. But we didn’t LOSE. And for Democrats, that’s amazing.

The fact is, the next Ameican Tebag Heartland Revolution begins now….

You guys stink on ice.

Social Security was a complete sellout because it was drawn exactly along lines preferred by the owners and captains of our largest industries. FDR was a damn corporatist sellout.

That’s RAHMing speed to you, buddy.

American Teabag Heartland Revolution just isn’t the same without Paula Abdul.

Does this mean I’m bipartisan?

Bipartisancurious

“Seacrest, out” is a veiled penis reference, by the way.

Also.

Frum may be the first to break past the “Shock” stage and begin the desperate scramble to deflect blame.

Waterloo
Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster.
…We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

Incoming mortar fire to Limpballs and his Sleepnumber Bed!

The Emancipation Proclamation was a giveaway to Big Cotton!

I’ve got a bill named Rama Lama Lama Lama Ding Dong.

RAM IT! CRAM IT! JAM IT! Right down their throats!

Dick Whisperer calls for “civility committee”

banalandutterlypredictablenews.com

The Emancipation Proclamation was a giveaway to Big Cotton!

The Voting Rights Act certainly cleared the way for Diebold machines.

The fucking senate is already talking about modifying the damn side car.

Fucking House of Lords, just pass it verbatim, it’s the price of your HCR bill being passed verbatim because you cowards won’t adopt majority rule like every other legislative body worth a damn

Rahm has his fucking hand up my ass again, Mom!

Do not get out of The Sidecar.

D. Aristophanes said,

The Emancipation Proclamation was a giveaway to Big Cotton!

You say that like it wasn’t. Roll over and eat your beats, bate hoven…tell sigh teh cows news.
~

Wait…some teabaggers are conceding defeat? I thought they were just going to move the goalposts and declare victory?

How else can they account for the failure of the True Heartland American Values to rise up and conduct that Civil War they’ve been promising us for the last couple of years?

The fucking senate is already talking about modifying the damn side car.

Can they do this? Would the altered bill then go back to the House, again?

That’s why I thought deem-and-pass was a good idea. I don’t think it had anything to do with having the votes for the Senate bill, I think it was a matter of Pelosi not trusting the Senate as far as she could throw a Buick.

I have heard that Reid published some sort of document with 50 Senatorial signatures promising to pass the sidecar. Would even Senators back out of a signed and published deal?

Also because he had an oar handle in his hands

Those weren’t oar handles.

Wait…some teabaggers are conceding defeat? I thought they were just going to move the goalposts and declare victory?

Their overlords haven’t given them the blast-fax yet. Tomorrow, Rush, Beck et al. will frame a new narrative for them.

WOLVERINES!!!

Our Constituent From Cabbagetown Announces Nationalized Health Care

On a special broadcast of the Fox News Channel’s “Special Report with Bret Baier” on March 21, Krauthammer announced upon passage of health care reform legislation in the House of Representatives, we will have a different country and on the road to nationalized health care.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/03/21/krauthammer-obamacare-will-be-law-land-tonight-and-well-be-different-coun#ixzz0irW7Svj9

Steyn’s article was almost identical to Krauthammer’s, although being Steyn he also tied in that it would cause cuts to the military which would allow the howling barbarians to crash through the gates.

Must be the new talking point, already. We should watch the Corner carefully. I’m sure Jonah will soon explain how this is the Kristallnacht of Liberal Fascism.

And Krauthammer said our system will soon look like the one in the United Kingdom and in Canada.

Well, well, well. For once Krauthammer said something that makes me feel gooood.

If only Krauthammer was right aboutu anything I would be busting out the champaign.

Big Cotton was a giveaway to Big Weevil!

This is nationalizing health care, the insurance companies are now utilities, they are contractors, the government makes all of these decision, only a matter of time and will probably happen after the Obama administration. But he will be remembered as the father of national health care as they have in Canada or Britain and starts, tonight.”

From your lips to god’s ear, Kraphammer.

Oh, we’re going to be a different country? I hope we’re Estonia, or maybe the Czech Republic. Oh, or Luxembourg! Can we be Luxembourg?

The conservatives can be Sark.

Big Cotton was a giveaway to Big Weevil!

Politics is all about choosing the lesser of two weevils.

So can we call Barack Obama the Duke of Wellington?

Steyn he also tied in that it would cause cuts to the military which would allow the howling barbarians to crash through the gates.

On the other hand, the now mandatory abortions means we’ll finally take down the invading hordes of Muslims, Mexicans and Hibernians. So what’s got Steyn so angry, I thought he wanted us to diminish the demographic tidal wave he fears day and night.

Would even Senators back out of a signed and published deal?

Does the Pope cover up for kiddie-fiddlers?

Stephen Moore on health care reform: “This is a dark day for America if we pass this bill”.

*sniffle*
~

Big Weevil was a goddamned tool of Big Bugspray!

Now the talking point is apparently “Well, Republicans have always wanted health care reform, too, b-b-b-but…”

‘We Republicans totally would have passed health care reform when we had control of every single branch of the federal government including the Supreme Court but, well, we forgot.’

“Kind of won” is right. But we didn’t LOSE. And for Democrats, that’s amazing.

True indeed. I think. If I understand things correctly, passage is a net gain.

The most darkly comic (and least surprising) aspect of the whole debacle is that those screaming the loudest, the muddled middle class middle brow middle management meatballs (I think PJ O’Rourke coined that phrase, and I’m pretty sure he’s smart enough to enjoy the fact that this is also the demographic that bought the books that bought his summer home) are also the ones who will benefit most from its passage. Because in the end, no matter what else happens, we can never ever ever allow things to get worse for those people. Because, in the end, they’re the only demographic that actually matters to anyone who will ever be electable in the United States.

HA HA HA HA HA. HA. HA. ha. heh?

Much ado about nothing? Really? Wow…that really is rather naive.

I think people need to read the EO very carefully. Also, the chance of him not signing it are very tiny.

The president seems to have a hard time back-stabbing progressives, but not fellow politicians…

Mike Pence (R-Dumbassistan) says that the most important feature of a Republic under a Free People is humility, because, you know, the Bush Jr. / Cheney Fourthbranch Triumvirate exuded humility.

I would say something funny and snarkish but there seems to be this huge package *ahem* rammed down my throat.

like this..

St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon,

Not sure where progressives will be after the next election. And no I don’t have any sackcloth to rend. Could you give me some?

FYWP

LIKE THIS HERE.

And Mike Pence whips out the Reagan card. $5 says he mentions he never took off his coat in the Oval Office.

Congrats, murka, who knows – two weeks from now when the heartland has forgotten what actually happened they’ll still remember that the democrats won and will forever associate them with the massive thrusting package of winnerdom

Not sure where progressives will

you’re not the only person who gets to decide what this word means

Sorry DA, can’t support a shit sandwich even if you can. I’m especially not going to act like it is a tasty meal.

And by the way, it won’t be fixed anytime soon so I’m not sure what good it will be to bash on it then. The time to bash on it was before the vote, not after.

The president seems to have a hard time back-stabbing progressives

He does? I mean, I guess in the sense that progressives have to have noticed the contempt by now, which would make “backstabbing” a logistical nightmare….

Copied and pasted from Crook & Liars:

Here are ten benefits which come online within six months of the President’s signature on the health care bill:

1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday
2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions
3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage
4. Free preventative care for all
5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.
6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.
7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.
8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.
9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.

Not sure where progressives will be after the next election.

The same place they were after the last election. The same place they are after every election. Either behaving as if they’ve been utterly demoralized by politicians being, well, politicians; or still out there working to get the country a bit closer to their ideal and recognizing sea-changes are for fucking fantasists.

It’s your choice as to which version you want to be though.

shit sand

so, what, you are in favor of insurance companies being able to deny or kick people off of insurance, and against federal help for poor families?

“Well, Republicans have always wanted health care reform, too, b-b-b-but…”

but it was supposed to have more freedom.

And waterboarding.

The time to bash on it was before the vote, not after.

Bullshit.

No I’m not, tacitus voltaire, but neither are those on this site. But maybe I should start calling myself liberal….or even socialist. I’m beginning to think the word progressive has now been co-opted by the center.

I think people need to read the EO very carefully.

Great Scott, you’re right–there’s a coded message saying “Initiate Operation Gilead and burn Jane Hamsher at the stake.” How could I have missed that before?

Bullshit? How so? Are you also in support of closing the barn door after the horse has left?

How could I have missed that before?

It says “Grill Jane Hamsher a steak”. Or possibly “Grill Jane Hamsher into a steak”. Translation is funny like that.

I was not a supporter of this bill before, but now that women and their rights have been thrown under the bus by the president I find this bill utterly evil.

The solution can be found in the wisdom of Howard Dean – elect Democrats from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. For starters, support Connie Saltonstall’s primary challenge of Bart Stupak.

I hear what you are saying – I can’t wait until the Hyde Amendment gets shit-canned once and for all.

Wow, martian buddy, that is very funny. I take it you don’t like Jane or FDL, right?

Actually I thought the coded message was “women, please give up some of your health care access so that a few others can pay to not see a doctor”. Except it is not so coded.

Dear Michelle Bachmann, regarding your principled stand on health care reform back last August:

Down the road, not across the street.

Big Pension.

Most people now think liberals and labor leaders created [Social Security] because they are the ones who defend it. But…the basic principles behind old-age insurance were created and actively supported by the corporate moderates who owned and controlled the biggest and most powerful corporations of the 1920s and 1930s, companies such as Standard Oil of New Jersey, General Electric, and Metropolitan Life Insurance…

…[T]he corporate moderates of the 1920s and 1930s [i.e., not the National Association of Manufacturers] did not act without the advice and help of the experts on social insurance they financed and directed in the fledgling think tanks of that day, especially the first industrial relations counseling firm in American history, Industrial Relations Counselors, Inc. (Kaufman 2003).

They also worked with experts who were brought together by the Social Science Research Council, founded in 1923 by the leaders of the Laura Spelman Rockefeller Memorial Fund to generate new policies on a wide range of social, economic, and agricultural issues (Bulmer and Bulmer 1981; Karl 1974). Other charitable foundations that corporate moderates created to shape policy proposals, led by the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Corporation, further aided these efforts over the next decade and longer.

The corporate moderates and their allies insisted that government old-age insurance had to be based on three principles they developed during several years of experience with private pension plans, especially in conjunction with the major life insurance companies of the time (Klein 2003).

First, the level of benefits must be tied to salary level, thus preserving and reinforcing the values established in the labor market. Second, unlike the case in many countries, there could be no government contributions from general tax revenues. Instead, there had to be a separate tax for old-age pensions, which would help to limit the size of benefits. Third, there had to be both employer and employee contributions to the system, which would limit the tax payments by the corporations…

Social Security was drafted by the super-rich and the subservient academics and experts they funded, it adhered to every one of the priorities they demanded, including taxing poor working people in the middle of the Great Depression for several years before anyone received any benefits, and for a while it didn’t cover agricultural or domestic workers, a yield to the Southern segregationist Democrats on whom FDR depended to pass legislation.

So, you know, corporate dominated policies can still be better than the status quo, and, yes, can be improved.

But I doubt the Hyde amendment will get killed…not after this and not with the political landscape of the next few years. Women’s rights are going backwards, not forwards.

I hope I’m wrong about this…but from everything so far, I don’t think I will be.

Sieg Heil!
Sieg Heil!
Sieg Heil(th) Care!

closing the barn door after

i disagree with your premise that it will now be impossible to further improve health care

Extending health insurance with tax credits and fines for the uninsured is exactly like how Hitler sent them people to gas chambers!

El Cid, I don’t see history repeating itself on this matter. Not after the SCOTUS decision on how corporations can act in the public sphere.

Wow, martian buddy, that is very funny. I take it you don’t like Jane or FDL, right?

I took a shot in the dark as to where you and your persecution complex hail from. 😉

Bullshit? How so?

You’re never going to get everything you want into the bill. Ever. If we spent the next three years on the fucking thing, it’d still be less-than-pure on the final pass. That’s the way the system works, that’s how you play the fucking game in American representative democracy.

The horse is already running out the barn. We can either close it fucking now, or wait until we’ve perfected the door-closing procedure, at which point the horse will be fucking gone. We can work on fixing the door (the horse has run into the fucking thing, after all) later. We can’t fix the door while the horse is running out.

Rep. Capito: “Listen to the Heartbeat of America.”

What’s next… saying that keeping the system as is should stand “like a rock”?

the massive thrusting package of winnerdom

Don’t know why, but that reminds me of the ALL-AMERICAN Lombardi Trophy. Maybe it’s the rum talking…um, thinking…visualizing.

Who cares if this bill will help poor sick people, a company is making money somewhere!

I hope I’m wrong about this…but from everything so far, I don’t think I will be.

Don’t sell yourself short. You seem pretty good at being wrong.

Can you show me what politician will want to touch it in a few months after people really learn what it provides? I know many people will be surprised it does very little until 2014.

You don’t think the right wingers and allied interests won’t start up a health care version of “welfare queens”? And with very few people seeing direct benefits, I don’t think that meme will have a hard time spreading.

Not my perfect solution, but also far from the worst I’ve seen. I’m happy to accept the half-a-loaf, and am hopeful they’ll be getting me the rest of that loaf soon(ish).

Already planning how many different ways I can taunt the Lubbock paper’s rabid GOP blogger…

Why is it all firebaggers do is yell at other liberals for trying to work in the system. I mean. what do you guys do that’s so much more productive than we do? Or more importantly, how can look at the government as you do, that to simplify it is controlled by companies on both sides of the aisle, and not come to the conclusion that terrorism is the only answer?

Can you show me what politician will

it could be, you know, that your ability to predict what will happen in the future might not be everything that you think it is

Get those virginal throats ready,
D. Aristophanes is evidently not clear on the difference between keyboard and brass instruments.

i disagree with your premise that it will now be impossible to further improve health care

I don’t even think it matters. I’m not optimistic about health care being improved any time in the foreseeable future, but passage of this bill is still better than nothing and no worse than what observant people should have expected from the beginning of this saga. Any kind of viable “public option” was dead long before arrival. It was dead before election day. It was dead before the primaries.

I also think self-proclaimed progressives (whatever that means) and idealists have a right to feel like they just got fucked and Rahm only left enough for bus fare, not cab fare, on the dresser before he walked out the door. But that’s the way it’s always going to be. The only options are participate in the process and bite and scratch a little, or don’t.

I’m glad to see people angry. Obama is an asshole who surrounds himself with even bigger assholes. The fact that some liberals are getting angry means there is some idealism left.

That said, I didn’t see any better options than Obama. I don’t see any better options than the reform that we have in front of us (which I think does represent a gain, as g’s re-post helped demonstrate). Until I see a better option than the Democrats, I’ll keep giving time, money, and humming the idiot tune.

You don’t think the right wingers and allied interests won’t start up a health care version of “welfare queens”?

Well, sure they will. They’re racist motherfuckers. There’s nothing anyone can do to stop them. Passing the perfect bill would still have them screaming about welfare queens. Did you think passing the perfect bill would magically keep them from acting like racist motherfuckers?

Can you show me what politician will want to touch it in a few months after people really learn what it provides?

Here’s one way. Between community rating, no more pre-existing conditions, no more recissions, and no more lifetime caps, it wouldn’t surprise me if health insurance companies come to Washington hat in hand within a few years to say, “Will you please, please create a public option so we can get these unprofitable money-sucking sick people off our rolls?”

I wish for all your sakes that the bill had a public option. Hell, I wish you got single payer. With the bill you did get, there is always the chance that the new regulations will be ignored or gutted through the usual process of regulatory capture. But the bill does not seem on paper to be worse than nothing, which would be the reason to oppose passage.

You don’t think the right wingers and allied interests won’t start up a health care version of “welfare queens”? And with very few people seeing direct benefits, I don’t think that meme will have a hard time spreading.

Nope, they will, and it will. They’re going to do that anyway. They are doing that, right this second. That is what they do as a matter of course.

Now, you can either doom-cloud that and wail and gnash your teeth and get ready for a perpetual stay with the Dream-Stomper; or, and this is just me talking as a low-information voter here, stop acting like you just fucking lost because oh no, some cobag named Stupak did blah, blah blah.

It’s a drastic overstatement of the facts to say anything bus-related happened here, and the benefits of just achieving 2% of what we’re going for outweighs doing jack because “it wasn’t everything”.

“Nonetheless, it will be the law of the land as of tonight and we’re going to be a different country,” Krauthammer said. “We are on our way, there is absolutely no chance we are not going to end up with national health care.”

And Krauthammer said our system will soon look like the one in the United Kingdom and in Canada.

Such chattel slaves will we all be then!

Chuckles is cordially invited to move to Somalia, where government of any kind will not trouble him. In fact, being the generous, bleeding-heart lib I am, I say we collect a fund to buy him the one-way ticket to Mogadishu.

Oh I think on this matter it is not too hard to predict the outcome. Of course, people are free to put their head in the sand and wish it was not so.

I don’t see history repeating itself on this matter. Not after the SCOTUS decision on how corporations can act in the public sphere.

In the old days, corporation thugs and state and federal troops often shot down protesting and striking workers by the dozens, so, it wasn’t exactly proletarian paradise back then either.

There’s simply no getting around it — our most helpful social and economic reforms have always been driven by and drafted according to the preferences of the super-rich and their hired help.

This would surprise no one, least of all not Karl Marx who thought it the responsibility of workers parties to actually use the power of democracy to achieve what gains for workers from the bourgeois state as could be achieved.

“So can we call Barack Obama the Duke of Wellington?”

Hmm … John Boehnerparte … not very catchy but nonetheless, it fits.

Perhaps someone should tell Orange-Faced-Johnny how much liberals HATE it when neocons eat tablespoon after tablespoon of arsenic.

Scott, I don’t disagree with you about their actions. But if a better bill had been passed there would not be such an urgent need to fix it. But since it is a shit sandwich, it needs fixing badly. And I don’t see that happening soon, in part because of what I mentioned.

And I don’t think a bill that gave progressives/liberals/insert name here nothing, not one thing of any real value, is anything close to perfect. I would argue it is almost the exact opposite. Is wanting a PO and cost controls now a “perfect” bill? That is really aiming low.

I see an immediate benefit to the passage of this bill- there is now a ten ton teabag hung around the neck of each and every Republican, like a friggin albatross (or is it a rabid pelican?)- even the friggin’ MSM is getting disenchanted with the teabaggers.

The GOP has sunk to even lower rump-party, CSA-backwater status as a result of this weekend’s activity.

…if a better bill had been passed there would not be such an urgent need to fix it. But since it is a shit sandwich, it needs fixing badly. And I don’t see that happening soon…

Fair enough. But before today, you didn’t see any better bill being passed by any prior President either. Not a one of them.

Clinton’s plan was also designed entirely by the 5 largest HMO’s and insurers. There’s a pattern here.

El Cid,

This is true but Obama is not FDR. So even if the corporate “influence” is equal to the 20s and 30s (which I don’t agree with because of the creation of the MSM, among other things), I don’t see a repeat of the great social programs of that time or even of LBJ. If the president won’t fight hard, it just won’t happen.

And I don’t see him fighting hard. On anything.

Yeah, it is aiming low. On the other hand, it’s an achievable low in this country.

Or, as my great-grandmother used to say before they put her in the institute, “it’s easier to stab a midget in the face than a giant.”

B^4, David Frum is serving a surprisingly useful function in highlighting this as a failure of the “fight at all costs” Demint/Kristol strategy the GOP has been pursuing.

It may also teach Democrats that the world does not end when they pass bills without Republican support, even if David Broder writes more scolding columns and various concern trolls predict doom.

even the friggin’ MSM is getting disenchanted with the teabaggers

THANK GOD.

Maybe they’ll finally start ignoring Falin’ Palin as well, and my, I will be so fucking happy about that.

El Cid,

But that is just not good enough, especially in light of his own support for some type of public option and women’s rights, both of which he tossed aside rather than fighting for them. And the public support of the PO was there.

In other words, he is no Bush II, but I’d like to think we hold the people we vote for to a higher standard.

Clinton’s plan was also designed entirely by the 5 largest HMO’s and insurers. There’s a pattern here.

Oh, come now! I was told Hitlery KKKLINTON and her army of radical lesbian Wiccan potheads wrote that bill, in occult consultation with the very powers of Darkness!

You are right about the “low” being achievable. I just think once most people learn how “low” it really is, and how they wanted something higher, they are going to be very pissed.

2010 is going to be very interesting.

B^4, David Frum is serving a surprisingly useful function in highlighting this as a failure of the “fight at all costs” Demint/Kristol strategy the GOP has been pursuing.

The best part is that Frum is sure to be raked over the coals by the other righties- the Movement cannot fail, only be failed, and Frum is not clapping hard enough to save Boehnerbell.

Well, you can continue to think that. Maybe you had a president you lived through that was worth a damn. I didn’t, so I don’t. That this was achieved at all is already more advancement for a progressive cause than I’ve experienced in my entire fucking life.

But that is just not good enough, especially in light of his own support for some type of public option and women’s rights, both of which he tossed aside rather than fighting for them. And the public support of the PO was there.

I don’t care what you think is or isn’t good enough, nor whether or not you like Barack Obama or think he is like Bush or not. Those are little games for your conscience to play when you’re not bothered by the remembrance that we tend to be faced with the choice of one real world alternative or another, rather than alternatives we would prefer.

2010 is not going to be interesting, it’s going to suck and we’re never going to hear the end of it until 2012. But fuck it, now the teabaggers are disappointed for once in this stupid process.

The Orange Boner is demanding that there be a roll count, and gets smacked down, after screaming “Hell No” in his time.

screaming boehners now on your teevee!

SHAME ON EVERY ONE OF YOU screams angry orange boner hulk.

‘Our actions today’ disgrace Moses, says Bronzer John.

“Joker pulls a “Boehner”, New York Post reports”.

Also, the Orange Boner really can’t feel good selling us this car unless we get the undercoating.

SHAME ON EVERY ONE OF YOU screams angry orange boner hulk.

It’s at the top of his list!

It’s at the top of his list!

But NOPE! [Thud!]

BONER SMASH

I wonder if Pelosi’s polling numbers will improve.

2010 is not going to be interesting, it’s going to suck and we’re never going to hear the end of it until 2012. But fuck it, now the teabaggers are disappointed for once in this stupid process.

I suspect it’ll suck less now, though, and might suck even less-er if we can get some kind of financial reform passed–even the teabaggers hate the banksters.

Compare the size of the immigration rally to that of the teabaggers’ rally- the teabaggers have been dwindling, and today’s immigration rally dwarfs the 9/12 rally attendence by almost 2-to-1. The teabaggers’ numbers have been inflated from the get-go, and the MSM is unable to ignore the blatant racism any more. With some GOP infighting between the Boner wing and the Frum wing, it’ll only get grimmer for the Repugs.

BONER SMASH

BONER SMASHED

‘Our actions today’ disgrace Moses, says Bronzer John.

Moses?

She’s not a great small-s speaker. Too many stumbles.

‘Our actions today’ disgrace Moses, says Bronzer John.

He bleeds! The Lawgiver bleeds!

Moses?

Moses suposes his toeses are roses
But Moses supposes erroneously
And Moses, he knowses his toeses aren’t roses
As Moses supposes his toeses to be

Nancy Pelosi is again speaking, breaking each of the 7 seals in the process.

This is true but Obama is not FDR

FDR wasn’t FDR.

Also, if Fox News had been around back in the day, you can bet they wouldn’t have given a flying fuck about the austerity of the office and not yelled day and night all about how Roosevelt was a fucking cripple.

Maybe they’ll finally start ignoring Falin’ Palin as well, and my, I will be so fucking happy about that.

I volunteer to run a death panel, exclusively for her.

‘Our actions today’ disgrace Moses, says Bronzer John.

What, “make Baby Jesus cry” was too cliched for him?

Just remember – every time you vote for health care, God kills a kitten!

On the other hand, every time you kill a kitten, God votes for health care.

‘”This package is just to much for me to swallow” said Sen. Boner’

I volunteer to run a death panel, exclusively for her.

Naaah, I get the impression letting her live, totally ignored by the media attention she so craves, would be punishment enough. Worse than death.

Orange Boner’s point was that Moses and other of history’s great law-givers was being shat upon by the horrible, corrupt, awful, no-good RAMMED THROUGH bill the Demon-craps were FORCING DOWN AMERICA’S THROAT.

See if any of this sounds familiar:

McCarthy drew into his following most of the zanies and zombies and compulsive haters who had followed earlier and lesser demagogues in the fascist and semifascist movements of the thirties and forties. At a typical McCarthy rally, there would be, seated in the front rows, thanks to early arrival, numbers of moon-struck souls wearing badges or carrying placards identifying them as Minute Women of the U.S.A., Sons of I Shall Return, members of the Alert Council for America, the Nationalist Action League, We the Mothers Mobilize, the Republoform, and so on. They know all the words of “Nobody Loves Joe but the Pee-pul,” and if this anthem was sung, their voices, generally on the shrill or reedy side, would be heard above the rest.
—Richard H. Rovere, Senator Joe McCarthy

These are the ideological (if not actual) parents of the Teabaggers. There have always been legions of boobs whose anger is matched only by their ignorance of what they’re angry about. They flare up, support an idiotic movement like McCarthyism, and then dissipate like a fart.

Things may be a little worse now, because they have the Internet and Fox News to keep them stirred up. But loud, ignorant yahoos have always been with us and always will. And you know what? We keep on making progress despite them.

On the other hand, every time you kill a kitten, God votes for health care.

And every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten.

therefore masturbation = passage of health reform! Q.E.D.!

An eye for an eye, a rammed-down throat for a rammed-down throat.

therefore masturbation = passage of health reform! Q.E.D.!

That’s political change I can believe in!

Moses suposes his toeses are roses
But Moses supposes erroneously
And Moses, he knowses his toeses aren’t roses
As Moses supposes his toeses to be

If they had incorporated that Gene Kelly / Donald O’Connor dance sequence from Singin’ in the Rain into the galley slave scene in Ben Hur, then you would’ve had a real movie.

therefore masturbation = passage of health reform! Q.E.D.!</blockquote.

I'm pretty sure that if this is true we'd have passed health care reform several hundred billion times now, just in the past year. I mean, I'm just guessing raw numbers here, in the abstract.

I mean, I’m just guessing raw

you need to get one of them bankster accountants to massage the numbers for you

Did someone say “kills a kitten”?

I hope that in 15 minutes this actually passes. I still wouldn’t put it past Democrats to shoot their own party in the ‘nads.

El Cid,

“Little games”? I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics to be able to argue that this POS is a great step forward. I also look at the real world and the real world says most people are going to see jack because of this bill. And those who do in 2014, who need the most help, are going to get fucked.

Remember, just because they have health insurance does not mean they will actually get health care. A key difference many seem to forget. Look at the results in MA.

And I’m sorry, but foisting this shit on people just because the teabaggers and cons will have a meltdown does not help at all.

I also look at the real world and the real world says most people are going to see jack because of this bill.

Road Rules was better anyway.

Did someone say “kills a kitten”?

IT IZ SURPRIZE WE HAZ ANY KEETOOMS LEFT!

It’s not every day we get to see such shoving and ramming in the House.

“Little games”? I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics to be able to argue that this POS is a great step forward.

I’m not doing any mental gymnastics. I’m actually looking at objective analyses of the legislation, I’m seeing measurable, empirically detectable benefits and improvements, including for people I know & care about, and I’m going to leave behind meaningless ill-defined terms such as “great”. There are also some measurable, empirically detectable costs.

I think that given the real world choice presented to us — this set of legislation or the status quo — the policy is superior for most people with the legislation.

There are many alternatives I could imagine which would be available to us in the form of a vote ready to be taken by Congress with a measurable likelihood of passage which would be better. This imaginary exercise, however, and not the actual legislation in front of the Congress, would be the mental gymnastics, not considering the actual reality.

In addition political costs of failure of passage are not simply partisan — the country, and by that I mean its people, is measurably, detectably, and seriously harmed much, much worse by the rule of the modern Republican Party.

I don’t have to lie or make up fantasy happy ponies about how awesomely perfect the Democratic Party is — excepting my own entertainment needs, which, to be honest, I’m very much going to enjoy for a few weeks, whether or not a few weeks later I’ll be back in CounterPunch leftist mode.

Urdsama:

“Little games”? I’m not the one doing spork geeble fzzxq pfff

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Bill Will be Killed said,

March 20, 2010 at 4:42 (kill)

I’ve come to the conclusion that Nancy Pelosi is in for quite a shock on Sunday, if she even has the backbone to hold the vote.

I have sources that say Pelosi doesn’t have the votes, and that the Republicans have quite a few what you might call “dirty tricks” up their sleeve.

Stay tuned, liberals. It’s going to be quite a shocker to you when ObambiCare goes down in flames on live television!

The Bill Will be Killed said,

March 20, 2010 at 4:48 (kill)

Even liberal CNN is starting to admit that the Democrats might not have the votes to ram this through.

Again, the Democrats do not have the votes as solidly as they think they do, and Republicans have quite a few tricks up their sleeves. Your wings will be clipped yet again, just as they were by Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, and Scott Brown earlier this year.

So instead of conservatives screaming and gnashing their teeth, it might be the liberals. I expect lots of “screaming and gnashing of teeth” on this blog after the vote fails, especially.

Should be a fun time!

The Bill Will be Killed said,

March 20, 2010 at 5:02 (kill)

Bookmark it as many times as you want: either Pelosi will cancel the vote, or it will go down in flames, live on C-SPAN.

And then ObambiCare will be finally, mercifully dead. Much like Rasputin it has taken a long time and a lot of effort to finally kill, but we’re 99% there. Just takes nine votes to block it, liberals: nine votes.

The Bill Will be Killed said,

March 20, 2010 at 6:46 (kill)

I will be back on Sunday, liberals, when it will be clear even to you that there will be no Rose Garden ceremony. There will be no further government benefits to parasites and looters, no Obambicare–oh, and I’m AFRAID there will be no bounce in the polls for Obama either!

See you then, libs!

*smirks*

Doop de doo… waiting on Troofie…

It’s not every day we get to see such shoving and ramming in the House.

Yeah, usually that sort of thing is confined to the gym and the cloakroom.

2 VOTES FROM THE TEABAGGER BROWN NOTE SYMPHONY

BOOKMARK THIS LIBS THIS IS HOW THE TEABAGGERS WILL GO DOWN

it has DONE BEEN DID!

AMERICA IS FINALLY OVER FIDEL CASTRO HAS EMERGED FROM BENEATH THE PODIUM AND OBAMA HAS SURRENDERED THE CONSTITUTION TO HIM

Next up: the Cheeto and masturbation ban.

Miramanee is the Jew of Shatner fascism.

Also, FYWP.

First FYWP eats my comment, then it annonymizes me. FYWP.

El Cid,

I guess you and I read two very different bills. On key issues it fails:

No cost controls.
No limit on premiums charged for previously excluded conditions.
Forced purchase of health insurance with IRS to collect 2% of annual income for non-purchase.

Are these some of the benefits and improvements you talk about?

For those who really need help, this fails on all counts. You might want to check out the fact sheet at FDL. I have yet to see anyone post that it is wrong in how it interprets the bill.

It’s not perfect, but it’s good enough for me to say this to John Boehner:

PWNED.

Incidentally, this music works great if you mute C-Span and listen the video’s music.

Snorghagen,

Great counterpoint. Wish I spoke gibberish.

I have yet to see anyone post that it is wrong in how it interprets the bill.

My theory would be that that is because nobody really cares what people on FDL think.

If they had incorporated that Gene Kelly / Donald O’Connor dance sequence from Singin’ in the Rain into the galley slave scene in Ben Hur, then you would’ve had a real movie

Not unless you added zombies.

#

*smirks*

Ahh, and now they’re gonna throw a temper tantrum because the President could reverse his executive order on federal funding on abortion.

Dumbasses.

Well, that’s that, then.

I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics to be able to argue that this POS is a great step forward.

That’s great leap forward, my Maoist Comrade, and I think we all know how well that went.

What El Cid said, and I would note specifics: no pre-existing conditions for children, no dropping a paid policyholder for (*gasp*) getting sick and needing said coverage, and Medicare expansion.

But, hey, by all means, go on (and on and on…) bitching and moaning about how this bill won’t grant sparkle ponies for all concerned. And, do keep us posted on what you are doing to improve life in these here United States, ’cause whining don’t produce no winning. (The guy I vote for will keep working toward single payer; can you say that about your Congresscritter? If not, I’m going to start whining at you until you make that change.)

No limit on premiums charged for previously excluded conditions

incorrect

Wow, the Goopers are just screaming…

Next, the President will issue a signing statement nationalising the means of production.

Great counterpoint.

You deserve no less.

Wish I spoke gibberish.

Your wish has come true. You’re fluent in it.

Really. Nice attack. How are people on “progressive” sites different from the repugs?

Comments like yours just show me both sides are just as fucked up.

Sad really.

nationalising the means of production.

Union workers shall seize the Boehner!

Next up: the Cheeto and masturbation ban.

Not so fast there, cowboy. Cheetos never did anyone any good, but we don’t need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Snorghagen,

Well, you were a great teacher. Thanks. I could not have done it without you.

Actually, though there is serious debate about implementation, rules that 80-85% of premiums paid to insurance companies have to be used toward health care and not administration (or profits) are cost controls.

Reports of deaths under Obamacare are already pouring in.

PHEW.

St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon,

Nice attack. Sad to see some people posting here are no different from the repugs.

Wow.

So now I assume that Rush Limbaugh has his bags packed and he’s off to, where? Costa Rica? Nooooo, they have universal health care. The only safe place for a self-reliant capitalissimo like Rush would be… Somalia?

Reports of deaths under Obamacare are already pouring in.

There is a specific exemption of responsibility for deaths of Chicago City Comptrollers – just there, on page 2390832420, paragraph c.

Yeah.

So go on now, fuck off. Don’t want my pseudo-Republican cooties getting all over you, do you know? Why, you might become less pure if you interacted with someone like me.

John Boner’s mama so dumb, she thinks the minority whip is what a slave-driver uses.

Nice attack. Sad to see some people posting here are no different from the repugs.

well, I smell better.

Thanks. I could not have done it without you.

Oh, tosh – you don’t need me. I’m sure FDL has a fact sheet you can refer to.

Now that the bill is passed, are we required to address each other as tovarich?

Inquiring Teabaggers want to know.

Naaah, I get the impression letting her live, totally ignored by the media attention she so craves, would be punishment enough. Worse than death.

Well, I didn’t say my panel would decide expeditiously; we prefer to keep that idiot in suspense, and waving Trig around long enough to absorb more teabagger $$$ that could otherwise go for GOP election funds.

Comrade Trotsky is objectively a stooge of the fascists!

well, I smell better.

Go on, brag a little. You have a better sense of branes, too.

Tacitus Voltaire,

From my understanding, those people would be put in a “high risk pool”. I see nothing in the bill that prevents higher premiums for those in this pool.

If you have a source that is on point I’d love to see it since I can’t find one.

It’s Tovarishch, I think.

Halp! Halp! Random Washington Bureaucrats have come into my home, telling me what insurance I should by! Oh the pain…THE PAIN!

Comrade Trotsky is objectively a stooge of the fascists!

Unless that’s an icepick in your pants, you need to try harder.

Snorghagen,

Wow. More insults pointed at FDL. Jesus. I guess progressives can be just as bad as repugs.

Really sad.

Urdsama, do you really not see why making insurance companies take pre-existing conditions and installing price controls at the same time might be problematic?

It’s Tovarishch, I think.

Sorry, I got my spelling from a teabagger protest sign

I don’t have a problem with people who see mostly the problems of this current reform package — on some days, that’s how I feel. I just don’t feel obliged to agree when it comes down to deciding whether I wish (and wish is the largely applicable term, outside of citizen lobbying) it to have passed or failed that the only moral choice is to have preferred failure.

Wow, more comparisons of us to the Republicans because we joke about FDL in a comment thread on a comedy blog. Fucking grow a sack or fuck off.

Really sad.

Also, FDL smells bad, and Dragon-King Wangchuck’s mom dresses them funny.

El Cid,

As I understood, that had a great deal of wiggle room and it would not be hard to rig the system for the health insurance firms.

Also, last time I checked there was no real system of enforcement that was part of the bill.

So if there is no enforcement, how is it really tracked or monitored? Honor system?

Go on, brag a little. You have a better sense of branes, too.

gosh- I think that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me, N__B.

From BJ:

Of the calls coming from voters within the district, 57 percent were for the bill and 43 percent were against. The out of district calls – 52 percent of the total – had 87 percent against health care and 13 percent for the bill.

Gee, it’s almost like the teabaggers were an astroturf rent-a-mob or something. But how could that be? Fox News assured me that they were a gen-u-wine grassroots uprising.

Yeesh, troofie – this new skin doesn’t fit you at all well. Jame Gumb was a much better tailor.

Piefilter.

As I understood, that had a great deal of wiggle room and it would not be hard to rig the system for the health insurance firms.

I think you’re right. Thankfully, unlike a treaty like NAFTA, this can actually be altered by ordinary legislation.

Personally I think people ought start working like hell for Grayson’s Medicare-For-All buy in bill.

Hmmm …

::sits quietly::

Well …

::listens carefully:

Strange. America still exists. Guess the GOP was wrong, eh?

Oh, and thanks to a few folks for reminding me why I only visit Tbogg over at Firedogcrazy.

St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon,

I see the street goes one way. People here on the popular side of a subject can hide behind “oh we are just joking” while those on the other side are “lacking any sense of humor”.

Didn’t that come straight out of the repug play book?

In the spirit of equality, fucking grow a brain or fuck off.

Wow. More insults pointed at FDL. Jesus. I guess progressives can be just as bad as repugs.
Really sad.

I can barely hold back the tears.

BOO HOO URDSAMA !!! MAYBE SOME CHAMOMILE TEA WILL MAKE YOU…LESS OF A DOWNER BITCH !!! TODAY PROGRESSIVES WIN AND CRYBABIES LOSE !!!!

I think that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me, N__B.

That’s what your zombie mother said.

RELEASE THE CRAPPIN’

the teatard brown note symphony begins

Wow. More insults pointed at FDL.

Pardon me sir, you seem have lost your way. The “How can you say that about Jane after all she’s done for us” concern trolling thread is this one over here.

El Cid,

Do you actually think that will happen? I’d glad to be proven wrong but as I said up thread, I think the politicians are going to run like hell from this. Especially once people learn that they really won’t be helped, if ever, until 2014.

The fact that even with 80 signatures Grayson got no attention speaks volumes to this.

If the Republicans, the Teabaggers and FoxNews had followed DJ Kool’s advice, they wouldn’t be in this predicament.

Strange. America still exists

Apart from new requirement that everything be written in Cyrillic, yeah, America still exists more or less.

Halp! Halp! Random Washington Bureaucrats have come into my home, telling me what insurance I should by! Oh the pain…THE PAIN!

I choose to look on the bright side: that miserable old bat across the street just got hauled away by several swarthy purpleshirted thugs in a SEIU van.

It’s better that this bill passed instead of not passing. There are still serious limitations to what’s been passed, however, and I don’t have a problem with one keeping that in mind as we consider the next step.

Personally I think people ought start working like hell for Grayson’s Medicare-For-All buy in bill.

There was a time I was ready to hold out for that, but there was just no way that was happening any time soon.

The thing is, I really do think this will get the ball rolling in the right direction. Yes, one would think Medicare would’ve done that already. But most don’t understand how it works, or haven’t really dealt with it.

Just a step in the right direction, and one milestone on the road.

Besides, and I gotta be honest here: It’s nice to stick it to the GOP, teabaggers, and other assorted loons on the right. It really, really is …

Do you actually think that will happen? I’d glad to be proven wrong but as I said up thread, I think the politicians are going to run like hell from this. Especially once people learn that they really won’t be helped, if ever, until 2014.

I think that out of any type of issue to which this is applicable, domestic policy which personally and dramatically affects nearly every citizen is more likely to be revisited than nearly any other.

And I think you’re incorrect in your assessment of the political after-effects of this legislation.

Especially once people learn that they really won’t be helped, if ever, until 2014.

Except for someone like me, who now won’t get denied due to pre-existing conditions (several, actually).

Other than that, though …

It’s better that this bill passed instead of not passing. There are still serious limitations to what’s been passed, however, and I don’t have a problem with one keeping that in mind as we consider the next step.

NONONONO!!! It’s ALL or NOTHING!! And we don’t plan for what to do next, we whine about what we have not being perfect!

I swear, you just have no idea how progress happens, do you? 🙂

Release the Kraken!

It is all yours. I want nothing to do with this POS bill. Just remember your support of it when it makes things worse than they are, okay?

Didn’t that come straight out of the repug play book?

No, this is pretty much strictly my own material. I suppose it must be some of that “parallel evolution” things, where my behavior, despite sharing none of the ancestors of Republican behavior, bears a marked similarity because of similar needs.

In this case, dealing with someone who tediously goes over how the progressive cause is doomed, run over by a bus, because they have a fact sheet from some guy I don’t give a fuck about telling me how this is going to rape the shit out someone’s throat.

It’s boring, it’s tedious, and honestly feels a lot like dealing with the troll whenever he starts going on about some poll from some assholes I don’t care about. So, because I’m not as clever as most of the board, I decided to treat you in similar fashion.

That is to say, telling you to fuck off and insulting your sources. But in the recognition of equality, let me just say that you’re really sad, and it’s a shame how much progressives like you sound like trolls.

tensor,

And you clearly think that any bill is progress. Which is not at all true…

And if it makes you feel any better, give it a couple days and your doom-and-gloom can be back on the popular side, and my hope (well, pragmatism) springs eternal routine will be unpopular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XIyb1NMZaQ

Guys, here’s Obama’s first press conference after the vote, isn’t it beautiful.

NONONONO!!! It’s ALL or NOTHING!! And we don’t plan for what to do next, we whine about what we have not being perfect!

I swear, you just have no idea how progress happens, do you? 🙂

Heh. I hear you. At the same time, I grow tired of the Very Serious People who tell you at every point that It Can’t Be Done, or It’s Too Liberal, or Why Don’t You Compromise Some More?

We’re going to keep hearing that over and over, and although all or nothing is almost never a realistic choice, there are some lines that have to be held. Let’s work on doing that.

Mark D,

Unless you are considered a child, you will still be denied until 2014. The denial clause kicks in immediately for them only.

Companies might decide to take you on, but they are not required.

feels a lot like dealing with the troll

This occurred to me, too.

There was a time I was ready to hold out for that, but there was just no way that was happening any time soon.

Grayson’s bill isn’t either/or. It’s still current and out there. It’s not directly related to the current legislation, it just lets people buy in to Medicare at cost.

There’s no conflict. Assuming political miracles and massive movements, you could pass it in the next year, or following year, etc., and so on and so forth. There’s no reason not to work for it.

here ya go

INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR2010032101637.html

Has anyone else yet observed that Urdsama is an anagram for marauds? I think we’ve unmasked the concern troll. It’s Genghis Khan!

Ursdamsamah iz rite! Now only vote SPARKLE KITTEH parteh! No moar death! World now good! Ceiling Cat luv SPARKLE KITTEH parteh cuz we now so perfek !

SPARKLE KITTEH 2012!

This occurred to me, too.

Well, breaking from the “All. One. Guy” act, I don’t feel urdsama is definitely the troll, just someone whose ideals are a bit more strict and puritan than mine in regards to policy and political advancement of causes.

That said, there’s no reason at all I can’t still treat him like a pain in the ass when he’s being one to me. Let you wiser folk roll out the Sadly, No fact sheet on him if you must.

House passes Reconciliation bill. Now it’s up to the Senate to pass that ‘within the week’.

I just realized, if we banish Kraphammer to Somalia, er, can’t he just wheel on over
(assuming, say, all terrain tires and a solar panel)
to Israel and get some of that sweet, universal health care mamoo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#Israel

Reading comments for great plazure as always… Dudes, I love you, you know that. But you’ve been concern-betrolled something awful by Turdsama. I think it’s Elsie or whatever the hell the name was, the faux-DFH that kept waving around her liberal credentials last week.

It’s all this emotion, clouding troll radar.

YES!!! And now we can FINALLY get that long-promised Civil War underway!!!

Okay, one question: are there, like, expiration dates for bullets? ‘Cause I totally forgot to buy fresh ones.

Okay, one question: are there, like, expiration dates for bullets
That’s why I only buy fruits, vegetables and eggs. Even if they do go bad, they’re still good for throwing. Sometimes even better.

But you’ve been concern-betrolled something awful by Turdsama

Well, I am already wearing my “St.”, may as well get some use out of it.

are there, like, expiration dates for bullets? ‘Cause I totally forgot to buy fresh ones.

Stock up now, before the hippies repeal the second amendment!

I need to go buy a gun so that the Islamomexohomofascist shock troops have something to take away from me.

If you kept yours in the fridge, they’ll be fine for ages. The “use by” date is just there in case somebody gets botulism and sues. Ask the Afghans that got those 50-year-old bullets from one of our suppliers. A bunch of those were still good. Like more than a quarter of them.

And you clearly think that any bill is progress. Which is not at all true…

No, asshole, I think this bill is a small amount of much-needed progress. Now get your damned filthy words out of my mouth. Remind us, yet again, of what you’ve done to improve things?

I need to go buy a gun

Can I rent one? I’ll just need it for the hour I suppose.

Tacitus Voltaire,

Couple of points…

They don’t get coverage until 2014 (children excepted).
High risk pools by definition would be charged more than general pools. So yes, they will be charged the same as everyone else in the high risk pool but not the same as those in the general pool.

If that is what you meant then I apologize for misunderstanding you. But my point was that they will be charged more…and they will. Also, there is nothing to prevent high risk pool costs from going up.

hey! – you want to see something cool? here’s the actual text of the senate bill that regulates health insurance rates

SEC. 2701. FAIR HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS.
(a) PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATORY PREMIUM RATES.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—With respect to the premium rate charged by a health insurance issuer for health insurance coverage offered in the individual or small group market—
(A) such rate shall vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved only by—
(i) whether such plan or coverage covers an individual or family;
(ii) rating area, as established in accordance with paragraph (2);
(iii) age, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 3 to 1 for adults (consistent with section 2707(c)); and
(iv) tobacco use, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 1.5 to 1; and
(B) such rate shall not vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved by any other factor not described in subparagraph(A).

primary sources! it’s not just for breakfast anymore!

It sure is a good thing WordPress just zapped my 400-word comment. Otherwise I would just have wasted five minutes of my life writing teh funneh for NOTHING.

Oh, wait!

High risk pools by definition would be charged more

where do you find this language in the bill?

If I’m reading your excerpt correctly, Tacitus — if that’s even your real name, which I doubt, as there are numerous people here obviously operating with FAKE NAMES — Obamacare requires us to smoke cigarettes (§iv). If that’s not socialism, I don’t know what is.

Spengler Dampniche,

Sorry, wrong guess. Been a lurker for a long long time.

Just sick and tired of everyone saying what a great thing it was that this bill passed and at the same time saying how much it sucked.

But, if it helps, sure call me a troll. I see the term is used so much now it has really lost any useful meaning.

I admit it, I’m a purity troll. Joy is forbidden. We must suffer always, for the sins of the world are upon us. Pull my finger.

if anybody wants to read the senate bill, go to this page

http://dpc.senate.gov/dpcdoc-sen_health_care_bill.cfm

and click on the link near the top labelled

Full Text of the Bill as Passed

you will gets a pdf

tensor,

I don’t remember making any such claim of improving things. Now you have shoved words in my mouth – feel better?

But to address that, gee I thought voting for the dems and Obama was a step in that direction. Guess not.

Hey Urdsama, you’re a troll! BWAHAHAHAHA! PWNED!

See, I think this bill blows a gigantic bronze moose cock. I think it has no redeeming features at all. But I don’t care. Know why? Okay, I’ll tell you. Because I just want to see the wingnuts have apoplexy. And they’re utterly shitting themselves.

So even though this bill moves healthcare forward a distance about equal to the width of a dime, why not? It’s something interesting to talk about. The Dems actually did something, even if it was extremely little. The Repugs have gone wild.

Anyway, you go ahead and be all cranky and suddenly a total non-lurker in a suspicious change of methodology that makes me HIGHLY SUSPECT CONCERN TROLL ABROAD IN THE LAND, and if you’re not a concern troll, but merely an angry, disillusioned crank, I’m terribly sorry.

Pull my finger.

urdsama said at 5:04 Release the Kraken!
It is all yours. I want nothing to do with this POS bill. Just remember your support of it when it makes things worse than they are, okay?

boo hoo urdsama boo hoo. Yes thanks, I will remember when several people I know are able to put their post-college-age kids on their health insurance, and other people I know are able to get Medicaid for their kids and other people I know are able to get coverage for a pre-existing condition. So i ain’t gonna be condescending to you and your sad, sad reality. As far as things being worse for women, Plan B is available over the counter now, for young women too. You can thank me for my investment in BRL and TEVA. Buh-eye.

“Now you have shoved words in my mouth – feel better?”

Oh, what a giveaway!

Tirez sur mon doigt, I think the French say.

requires us to smoke cigarettes (§iv). If that’s not socialism

but, you see, it further stipulates that grandma must not be varied “by more than 1.5 to 1” therefore q.e.d.

Yeesh, troofie – this new skin doesn’t fit you at all well. Jame Gumb was a much better tailor.

It’s like Xecky’s inside my head… THINKING MY THOUGHTS!!!

I don’t remember making any such claim of improving things.

WTF are you even talking about? You accused me of thinking “any bill is progress,” and so I generously worked to eliminate your confusion on that point. You’re welcome.

Now you have shoved words in my mouth – feel better?

Thanks for outing yourself as a Republican, or wanna-be. (Which is worse, and who cares?) I hope the bill contains troll-improvement provisions, but I’m not holding my breath.

Release the Kraken!

What is the weather like in your world again?

Billy Kristol: who is never, ever rong!

I predict in 2013 the bulk of this will be repealed and replaced with better health care legislation.

tensor,

I was responding to your question to me “what had I done to improve things”.

I guess I should ask WTF you are talking about.

Oh well. If you think I a repug, feel free. I doubt the bill has any “troll-improvement” since it hardly deals with health care, which is what it was supposed to be about.

urdsama, as a pro-choice woman who’s spent most of her life uninsured, I’m going to have to ask you to stop attempting to speak for me.

You don’t come across like you give a fuck for women’s rights, and I’ll bet you haven’t lifted a finger to advance them. People like you are good for one thing only: whining on the internet to get attention.

Boo hoo, abortions. They’re not going anywhere.

You come across as a concern troll.

jim said,

Perhaps someone should tell Orange-Faced-Johnny how much liberals HATE it when neocons eat tablespoon after tablespoon of arsenic.

Remind them all that June 15th is Obama’s new “National Not Setting Yourself On Fire Day”. I’m sure they’ll celebrate it in the appropriate manner.

I was responding to your question to me “what had I done to improve things”.

I never said you’d claimed to have done anything positive. As you’re a troll whining on a snark blog, it’s obvious you’ve never done anything to advance the agenda you claim to love.

Oh well. If you think I a repug, feel free.

(Hell, with grammar skillz like that, you might be a teabagger!) I think you’re worse than a real GOoper. I know a GOoPer will oppose government ensuring that wealth be retained by those of us who’ve created it, not by Paris Hilton, G. W. Bush, the Masters of Wall Street, and Healthcare CEOs. Furthermore, the GOoPer will unabashedly defend such unearned wealth and privilege, although he might lie about what he does. You barge in here, with exactly zero track record of ever having done anything to improve America, and claim to speak for us progressives. Go to hell, and take your unfounded suppositions about what I think with you.

Unless you are considered a child, you will still be denied until 2014. The denial clause kicks in immediately for them only.

Well, given his heart condition (atrial eptopic tachycardia), WOOT!!!

Oh, and El Cid — Contacted my Congressman last night (Emanuel Cleaver, who was spat upon this weekend) to ask him to support Grayson’s bill. Got a response RIGHT back (guess they were working late) — he seems to like the idea.

We’ll see what happens …

::crosses fingers::

Urdsama, re the costs of the high risk pool:

REQUIREMENTS- A qualified high risk pool meets the requirements of this paragraph if such pool–

(A) provides to all eligible individuals health insurance coverage that does not impose any preexisting condition exclusion with respect to such coverage;

(B) provides health insurance coverage–

(i) in which the issuer’s share of the total allowed costs of benefits provided under such coverage is not less than 65 percent of such costs; and

(ii) that has an out of pocket limit not greater than the applicable amount described in section 223(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 for the year involved, except that the Secretary may modify such limit if necessary to ensure the pool meets the actuarial value limit under clause (i);

(C) ensures that with respect to the premium rate charged for health insurance coverage offered to eligible individuals through the high risk pool, such rate shall–

(i) except as provided in clause (ii), vary only as provided for under section 2701 of the Public Health Service Act (as amended by this Act and notwithstanding the date on which such amendments take effect);

(ii) vary on the basis of age by a factor of not greater than 4 to 1; and

(iii) be established at a standard rate for a standard population; and

(D) meets any other requirements determined appropriate by the Secretary.

That reference to Section 2701 of the PHSA (as amended by the HCR bill) means this:

SEC. 2701. FAIR HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

`(a) Prohibiting Discriminatory Premium Rates-

`(1) IN GENERAL- With respect to the premium rate charged by a health insurance issuer for health insurance coverage offered in the individual or small group market–

`(A) such rate shall vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved only by–

`(i) whether such plan or coverage covers an individual or family;

`(ii) rating area, as established in accordance with paragraph (2);

`(iii) age, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 3 to 1 for adults (consistent with section 2707(c)); and

`(iv) tobacco use, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 1.5 to 1; and

`(B) such rate shall not vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved by any other factor not described in subparagraph (A).

`(2) RATING AREA-

`(A) IN GENERAL- Each State shall establish 1 or more rating areas within that State for purposes of applying the requirements of this title.

`(B) SECRETARIAL REVIEW- The Secretary shall review the rating areas established by each State under subparagraph (A) to ensure the adequacy of such areas for purposes of carrying out the requirements of this title. If the Secretary determines a State’s rating areas are not adequate, or that a State does not establish such areas, the Secretary may establish rating areas for that State.

`(3) PERMISSIBLE AGE BANDS- The Secretary, in consultation with the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, shall define the permissible age bands for rating purposes under paragraph (1)(A)(iii).

`(4) APPLICATION OF VARIATIONS BASED ON AGE OR TOBACCO USE- With respect to family coverage under a group health plan or health insurance coverage, the rating variations permitted under clauses (iii) and (iv) of paragraph (1)(A) shall be applied based on the portion of the premium that is attributable to each family member covered under the plan or coverage.

`(5) SPECIAL RULE FOR LARGE GROUP MARKET- If a State permits health insurance issuers that offer coverage in the large group market in the State to offer such coverage through the State Exchange (as provided for under section 1312(f)(2)(B) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act), the provisions of this subsection shall apply to all coverage offered in such market in the State.

(The distinction being the allowable variance for age being 4:1 instead of 3:1.)

As I read this, the high risk pool is not subject to completely arbitrary and uncontrolled premiums.

Also, in order to get a contract to provide coverage in the high risk pool, you have to be a state or a nonprofit private entity, so you don’t have the same pressure to drive up premiums as you would with a for-profit insurer.

Also, the issuers can’t limit coverage arbitrarily; their share of benefit costs can’t be less than 65% of those costs.

Also.