Gee I can’t imagine why health care reform is unpopular…
As I’ve said before, I believe we should pass the current health care bill simply because getting uninsured people covered is important and because it’s sadly the best our corrupt political system can give us right now. But Jesus, I don’t have to feel good about it. Ezra inadvertently explains why:
This year, the Obama administration succeeded at neutralizing every single industry. Pharma supports the bill. Insurers are incoherent on it, but there’s not a ferocious and united campaign to kill the proposal. The American Medical Association has endorsed the Senate bill. The hospitals have endorsed the bill. Labor has endorsed the bill. The business community is split, with larger employers holding their fire.
You can take that as a critique of the bill’s deals and concessions. But it represents a remarkable level of industry consensus.
See, yeah. When I voted for Hope’n’Change two years ago, I didn’t think it would involve bribing the living shit out of every major stakeholder and interest group in the country. We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good. If anyone knows what happened to that sort of political courage, I’d be glad to know.
It’s this precise induction that makes me think we could have worked harder for a better deal. We might not have gotten single payer some form of public option would have been possible.
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.
Really? When? The Civil Right Act wasn’t opposed by any one particular “special interest” so I think you’d have to go back to FDR. He was only working on the Great Depression. Plus, distrust of government is higher than it was in his day (thanks for that, Nixon, may you rot in hell).
Ayup. And I believe one of our esteemed colleagues (by which I mean somebody who makes POOP jokes in the comments) linked to this column from Glenn Greenwald saying that the powers that be actively campaigned against the public option.
Which is why I’m a little skeptical of the “pass it and improve it” argument. I’m afraid that the whole system is going to have to collapse on the weight of itself before any actual reform happens. That would suck for everyone in general, and the Democrats in particular.
The Civil Right Act wasn’t opposed by any one particular “special interest”
The Clean Air and Clean Water acts were both opposed by big business. The Americans With Disabilities act was opposed by big business. But it’s true: ever since 1979, it’s been harder and harder to do good by doing right for people without running into a heavy lobbying from some special interest and so genuflecting in their direction.
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.
Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer. So it’s not even like it’s politically unpopular.
Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap? Or is S,N! waiting until the popcorn runs out?
My fellow conservatives and feminists!
Where’s the outrage?
Men selectively abort ugly female babies
Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap?
STRAP-ONS!!! DOUBLE HEADED DILDOES!!!! MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!
Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap? Or is S,N! waiting until the popcorn runs out?
GODDAMN, there’s popcorm? What do I have to click on to download it?
And not to be a troublemaker, but “let’s pass it and fix it later” was pretty much what happened with welfare reform back in – what, 1997? Which got passed and then everyone was too busy sniffing blue dresses to fix anything. Just sayin’.
Quit your whining! Can’t you just smell the Utopian euphoria in the air? Soon your precious poor people will get bailed out of their crap lives — just like my buddies in the banking industry… poor bastards — the bankers I mean. Now, not only have you proved to us (and yourselves) that you are powerless to get any sort of reform done that infringes on our RIGHTS to obscene profits, I hope you will let us rake in some for the next 10 years. I’ll be back — after my round of golf with friends in the military industrial lobby. Enjoy you’re “refrom” fools! We sure do!
Neutralize my ass. Obama didn’t neutralize those industries any more than the guy that served me a beer last night neutralized me.
The word is SERVICED.
Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap? Or is S,N! waiting until the popcorn runs out?
Lordy-Lou, they’re eating their own over there… some choice schadenfreude:
Why can’t us true conservatives recognized that all that time Hannity has spent in NYC has finally turned him into a limousine liberal he so despises.
The truth is, if Sean is using the money to defeat democrats we should be glad because this also helps the troops and the morale of the troops. The more you criticize Sean the more you are really helping the enemy and helping defeat republicans.
KevinJ – you’re a typical, ignorant neo-conservative sheep. You don’t do your own due diligence, instead you just listen to the blathering of your leaders. I guess facts really don’t matter, huh?
This is even more delicious than the two zeppole I ate for the feast of San Giuseppe.
The word is SERVICED.
Your bartender blew you?
May I have that address, please?
STRAP-ONS!!! DOUBLE HEADED DILDOES!!!! MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!
I hate you.
This is even more delicious than the two zeppole I ate for the feast of San Giuseppe.
*raising Italian salute on his hand*
*cough* Bush *cough*
My television begs to differ. OK, I lied. I don’t have television. But much of my internet also disagrees. People say they don’t trust government, and they actually mean it but for some pretty fucked-up reasons — and at the same time they say they don’t trust the media, but they don’t actually mean it because they don’t think SeanhannityGlennbeckalwaystellmethehonesttruthaboutlibliars actually constitutes “the media.” And meanwhile, “the media” reports the shit that oozes out of SeanhannityGlennbeck as if it fucking meant something rational in the known universe.
Dammit, Brad. I was all smiley after Gavin’s post. Thanks a lot.
Too much money at the top of the system. It fucks up everything. In this case, the wealthiest can pour so much surplus cash into our incredibly wasteful and increasingly stupid political system that the middle and lower class have almost no representation. To get elected you need money from people and companies that can max out limits. Oh, you need votes too, but you can already get by with the votes of maybe just 30% of voting age people. And many of those are easily manipulated and get just two choices to represent their ideologies.
I hate you.
Your mom has a different opinion.
The Schlusseling is awesome. Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will just quietly drop the subject.
The best thing about this Hannity kerfuffle is that it puts the lie to the whole “GOVERNMENT IS EEEVIL!!! PRIVATE CHARITY!!” bullshit.
Your mom has a different opinion.
Don;t you mean “position”?
Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will
just quietly drop the subjectwake up next to a severed horse’s head.Fixed
the Clean Air and Clean Water acts were both opposed by big business. The Americans With Disabilities act was opposed by big business
Besides profits, what is big biz for? I said BESIDES PROFITS.
with a dash of FYWP
Besides profits, what is big biz for?
Barriers to entry, high tariffs, ease of regulation, stock manipulation….
I’ve wondered why big business hasn’t strongly supported single payer, then I realized that they got tax breaks for taking jobs out of this country and didn’t have to pay for their employees’ health care. Plus, they used the job flight as a tool to bust the remaining unions.
MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!
Slightly better than that damned Lee Greenwood.
Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will
just quietly drop the subjectwake up next to a severed horse’s head. Which she will simply assume is breakfast, and happily devour.Double fixed.
MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!
Slightly better than that damned Lee Greenwood.
Keith’s actually been pretty vocal in support of Obama.
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good. If anyone knows what happened to that sort of political courage, I’d be glad to know.
What are you, some kind of commu-marxist-socialist? This is the United States of America. Pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, hospitals and the business community ARE the public good!
Yeah, and about FDR…
Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer. So it’s not even like it’s politically unpopular.
It is socially popular but I guess when politicians can’t raise the issue without some lobbyist knocking on his door reminding him where the bread is buttered or which side of his face the gun will be pointed at its “politically unpopular.”
But $$ is being thrown at everything these days.
The current HCR incarnation is the 1957 Civil Rights Act. Flawed? yes, compromised? yes, inadequate? absolutely, but absolutely necessary to pass. It may take 5, 10, 20 years before we finally have a health care system worthy of a modern democracy, but when that day comes, we will point to this weekend’s vote as the point where we began to be serious. The current bill is a necessary battle; it is not the war.
Your mom has a different opinion.
Oh yeah? Well, YOUR MOM has a different opinion!
*zing*
There is no Liberal Jesus. I certainly expected better on the HCR front, but Barry’s always been a concensus-building pol, and he ran on huggy-feely-embrace-the-other-side-ism. He also ran on the public option and national health exchanges but wev.
><i.Barriers to entry, high tariffs, ease of regulation, stock manipulation….
These are a few of my favorite things… when the stock spikes, when the bell rings, when I’m feeling riiiich….
Oh yeah? Well, YOUR MOM has a different opinion!
Is there, perchance, video evidence available?
A pox on both your houses. Since I caught a pox from both of your mothers.
Actor212 must have beat me to both of ’em.
he ran on huggy-feely-embrace-the-other-side-ism.
Are you suggesting he reached around the aisle?
Actor212 must have beat me to both of ‘em.
Hey, I was cured!
I mean, I’m sure I’m not that fast.
Is there, perchance, video evidence available?
No, but I do have this newsletter…
Keith’s actually been pretty vocal in support of
Obamalynching.Hung ’em high for you. Although in FYTK’s defense, he’s only pro-lynching and not pro-lynching Obama.
I mean, I’m sure I’m not that fast.
Mom says your twelve seconds at most. No wait, I mean T&U’s mom says that.
Why can’t us true conservatives recognized that all that time Hannity has spent in NYC has finally turned him into a limousine liberal he so despises.
New York cooties! Get your New York cooties here! GET ‘EM WHILE THEY’RE HOT!
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good
name three.
Mom says your twelve seconds at most. No wait, I mean T&U’s mom says that.
See? Not even enough time for the pox to transfer over!
I mean, their watches must be fast.
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good
name three.
Fiorello LaGuardia
Teddy Roosevelt
Bob LaFollette
Or did you mean there within memory of the pre-geritol set?
“three,” too.
I’ve wondered why big business hasn’t strongly supported single payer, then I realized that they got tax breaks for taking jobs out of this country and didn’t have to pay for their employees’ health care. Plus, they used the job flight as a tool to bust the remaining unions.
Well, by making sure that health benefits are tied to workplaces, they ensure that the serfs won’t just say “Take this job and shove it!”
Overworked, scared-shitless workers are compliant workers.
Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer
Half these people don’t vote.
44M people are already on single-payer — Medicare.
The tea party types have been banging pots & pans and have their friends at FOX and WSJ to push their message.
Half the liberal side wants to punish the dems for not making the current compromise what they want it to be.
No win situation.
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.
Perhaps the problem is that taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good is, come election time, no longer popular with the public?
If politicians were rewarded at the ballot box for taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good, it wouldn’t matter how much money those special interests had, etc. Rep. Public Good might be opposed by Candidate Special Interest who has gobs of money. But all Rep. Public Good would need to do is have enough money to buy a few 30 sec ads pointing out her voting record and who’s paying for Candidate Special Interest, et voila, Rep. Public Good gets re-elected.
The problem is that Candidate Special Interest can manage to convince the voters that Rep. Public Good is an evil socialist in thrall to the special interests while only Candidate Special Interest can manage to keep everyday ‘Murkins safe from the terrists.
If voters wouldn’t fall for the “Mayor Quimby released Side Show Bob from Prison, Vote Side Show Bob for mayor” argument, then our system would reward good behavior and better politicians would emerge. But since our system rewards bad behavior from politicians, we have the politicians we have.
I guess no one ought look into the deals and buy offs cut with Southern segregationist fiefdom ruling Democrats in order for FDR to get the New Deal through.
Also, don’t look too closely at the origins of the Social Security Act, as it was largely shaped based upon the interests of the owners of the largest corporations in 1920s America.
It was hugely controversial at first, not least because there had to be several years of taxing benefits out of peoples’ salaries before anyone was receiving any assistance.
Social Security was designed entirely along the lines of what the largest corporations of the day wanted. And they entirely got their way.
Clearly, Social Security was a sellout achieved through disgusting back door negotiations and deals with corporate and landowning and anti-labor whore politicians, but it was still a hugely significant achievement, and one pretty consistently improved and strengthened over time, until at least the last 10 years of late Reaganite attack.
We also used to have political leaders who would be pressured by massive actions by the large segment of American workers who belonged to labor unions.
Buying out all the stakeholders should have got us something more. I actually have a less of a problem with corporate whores and more of a problem with incompetent cheap whores. Doesn’t PhrMa own at least one republican? They couldn’t pull their leash?
The chamber of commerce, along with Manufacturers, retailers, etc all supported the stimulus (which is why it was watered down). And yet these powerful lobbyists could not get a single R vote?
Just like now, they don’t want to get it passed. They want Republicans to win and let them play at being populist. Democrats get the worst of all worlds – no bipartisanship, no progressive policies, no public support. And Dems don’t seem to care.
Christ these people are idiots.
FDR, 1936
And as far as the “first step” and foot in the door people – we already have medicare, and yet we are not able to expand that. What makes you think that we can expand anything we are doing now?
Yes, I also find it funny that the right is claiming vindication due to the fact that health care reform is so much less popular now than it was about a year ago. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to them that ObamaCare’s downward plunge in ratings coincides with Obama conceding to the right time and time again until we ended up with a bill less liberal than what Nixon introduced in 1974.
Hell, as long as we’re reconciling, why not scratch this altogether and next week, pass a motion deleting the words “under 65” from Medicare’s mandate? Seriously.
Clearly, Social Security was a sellout achieved through disgusting back door negotiations and deals with corporate and landowning and anti-labor whore politicians, but it was still a hugely significant achievement, and one pretty consistently improved and strengthened over time, until at least the last 10 years of late Reaganite attack.
So it was passed, then improved.
It was a very limited benefit at first, too, available only to employees in the railroad and some interstate commerce companies at first (the first SSI recipient got 17 cents. He retired the day after the bill took effect, and had paid in a nickel.)
Over time, over the next decade, it was expanded and modified.
“We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.”
And some of them even used to be Republican. Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower… hell, even Lincoln would weep at the current state of not just the Republic but their dear party.
We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.
And it was so cool when those courageous leaders managed to get some form of universal coverage legislation passed, wasn’t it?
Taking on unpopular special intersts is easy. Taking on powerful, wealthy special interests is another matter entirely.
I bet you guys are keeping all the popcorm for the big gay hamsters who power the site.
bleah!
I bet you guys are keeping all the popcorm for the big gay hamsters who power the site.
You don’t want to know about the butter…
See, this post sums up all the reasons we may as well elect Murray Hill, Inc. to the Senate. Business already runs the joint, may as well make it official.
“I guess no one ought look into the deals and buy offs cut with Southern segregationist fiefdom ruling Democrats in order for FDR to get the New Deal through.”
True. An example was the anti-lynching law that Roosevelt refused to support. But then African-Americans were a pretty unpopular special interest group, so maybe we should add Roosevelt to that list.
Look, no legislation of any positive consequence in this nation was ever passed without some healthy, forceful opposition that demanded and got concessions.
Amen for that. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where everyone thinks homogenously and things are passed by unanimous vote.
All we need is a level playing field and I’m sure, I damn sure, we don’t have one now, and probably never have.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/27/business/27care.html?_r=1&ex=1264482000&en=a7eae78f08ee9c65&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland
FTR, I wouldn’t be surprised if most corporations (if not the health insurance industry) would welcome single-payer government health care. If they no longer had to pay for their employees’ health coverage, wouldn’t that mean more money available to them to invest elsewhere?
Remember, the original business base for modern conservatism came because the unions were pressuring businesses to provide health care to their employees that the feds wouldn’t (which the big companies could afford without too much trouble but was more of a strain on small businesses). Not criticizing the unions here – just pointing out that single-payer’s actually good for most businesses especially the small ones, which in turn is good for the free-market system. In a rational world, it’d be a no-brainer.
JEEBUS FREAKING CRIPES BUT CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE COVERING UP OF ALL THE CHILD RAPING???
Good thing they didn’t hire none of them homo-sekshuls, otherwise some perverted stuff mighta gone on.
Also, “The Perversion Files” has, I would assume, already been optioned for a XXX Sci-Fi takeoff film.
If they no longer had to pay for their employees’ health coverage, wouldn’t that mean more money available to them to invest elsewhere?
After the tax burden, you mean? Yes. What they don’t pay now in premiums, they’d pay in taxes, but it would probably end up being less.
The money line from El Cid’s article:
JEEBUS FREAKING CRIPES BUT CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE COVERING UP OF ALL THE CHILD RAPING???
Or, you know, stop with the child raping altogether…
The downside for big business of a single payer system would include that (a) it would make their work force much more mobile and less tied to working in a particular company or area, thus driving up labor bargaining power; and (b) it gets funny ideas in peoples’ heads that gubmit can do stuff.
So, it’s a toss up for Big Biz.
Shorter Redstate: MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!
Hope and Change? Bait and Switch is more like it.
Good thing they didn’t hire none of them homo-sekshuls, otherwise some perverted stuff mighta gone on.
I think that anytime you have an exclusively male organization that is outspokenly anti-gay, we can assume that there is some child raping going on.
I think that anytime you have an exclusively male organization that is outspokenly anti-gay, we can assume that there is some child raping going on.
::blink::
One of the reasons I enjoy coming here is every so often, amidsts some of the funniest shit I’ll ever read, someone posts an insight like this.
Thanks Ped!
1,000 Boy Scouts sex files
I’m, um, interested in this, um, merit badge.
Is there a newsletter or website I can give my ,um, friend?
For science!
Communist murderers are SLANDERING US.
Well, its a good thing the Boy Scouts have taken such a strong stance on excluding Atheists, or think of how much worse it would have been.
/sarcasm
Shitty bill or not – given the number of times the wingtards have doubled down on HCR killing granny and eating babies, passing it is going to be HUGE. And given how much time has been spent by Dems stroking off Blue Dogs, centrist wafflers, Ben Nelson’s cornhusks and President Olympia Snowe – not passing is the kiss of death.
So with financial regulatory reform being ground in the sausage factory right now, a major win for SOCIALESM! is sorely needed.
Obama lied to us about a public option. He made a quid-pro-quo backroom deal with the pharmaceuticals industry that there’d be no drug importation, and he made a quid-pro-quo backroom deal with the health care industry that there’d be no public option.
Fuck him, he’ll never get any more support. He was talking in public about the public option after he’d already torpedoed it with Rahm in private. Fuck him in the fucking ear. Asshole corrupt corporatist just like Bush. (Guess what? He also wants indefinite detention powers.)
I’m done being betrayed. My political contributions have ended.
Shorter Redstate: MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!
HEY! We made it!
Albeit all the fucking way down the page…guys, we have to work harder at making Irk Irksome shit his bed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html
Albeit all the fucking way down the page…guys, we have to work harder at making Irk Irksome shit his bed.
Judging by the post, the best way to do that is to join Twitter.
*ahem*
Oh, you radical leftist liberal extremists and your pie in the sky fantasy utopia solutions.
Obama lied to us about a public option.
He did not.
He was quite clear during his campaign for President that any public insurance would, well, look exactly like what he got in the Senate bill.
Judging by the post, the best way to do that is to join Twitter.
*ahem*
It only goes to show that Twitter is for twits.
This is the United States of America. Pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, hospitals and the business community ARE the public good!
Maybe it’s not Obama making deals with pharma and the insurance companies but the other way around, ie, Obama has the leverage because the for-profit healthcare system is set to implode in the next 5 or 10 years anyway. Another bubble splatter.
We seem to be approaching all the points of diminishing returns. For-profit medical insurers took big hits during the economic meltdown on their own investment portfolios. Part of the response, in order to keep their own shareholders happy, was to raise premiums. The premiums are now too high for an astonishing number of middle-class Americans, who have stopped paying them in rapidly acclerating numbers — whether the insurance is through employers or not.
And so the spiral down begins…
Grace,
Don’t forget that the age of America’s population is increasing, so even people who are still paying premiums are going to be drawing more and more reimbursements from insurance companies.
It only goes to show that Twitter is for twits.
You are such a curmudgeon.
Glenn Greenwald with more on the Democrat’s perpetual rotating villain scam:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/12/democrats
You are such a curmudgeon.
I didn’t think you’d noticed
*batting eyelashes*
Shorter Redstate: MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!
It’s a weird blend of “HELP, MOMMY!!!” and “THIS IS SPARTA!!!
No quarter, indeed. These Cheeto-breathers are really something, with such bleats and blarts as The hell with all of them, The new rule should be no mercy, and no quarter. You can’t expect civil behavior from them, so there’s no reason to give these people any in return.
Maybe one of them will pull a Tw00fie and threaten to Actor212’s ass again- that was sweet.
>He did not.
Did you read my links, apologist? He betrayed you and you’re sucking it up.
Uh… kick his ass, kick his ass.
Sorry, on a sugar high…
Hey actor212, maybe you had Rahm’s butt grinding into your face the first time, so I’ll post it again:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html
Did you read my links, apologist?
Yup.
I also paid attention in 2008, and didn’t fall for his silky voice and clean neat appearance, dawg.
I’m no apologist. I was a Hillbot. I support Obama because the choice was obvious. I do not regret that choice.
I wouldn’t be surprised if most corporations (if not the health insurance industry) would welcome single-payer government health care
And yet, through the Chamber of Commerce and its lobbying, they do not.
A few years back, I thought the corps would start pushing for single payer. Showz ya what I knowz.
Glenn Greenwald with more on the Democrat’s perpetual rotating villain scam:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/12/democrats
I swear, no one around here reads my fucking links.
AHEM.
Don’t try to lie that he never said he supported one. WTF is it with you? You’re as bad as the denialist wingnuts. I hope your blind trust works out for you.
It’s a weird blend of “HELP, MOMMY!!!” and “THIS IS SPARTA!!!
Right? Until recently, I never knew that there was such a thing as a belligerent asshole with a victim complex.
Don’t try to lie that he never said he supported one.
Do you read what anyone else posts, or are you that blinded by the stick shoved so far up your ass its hit your optic nerve?
Which part of “He was quite clear during his campaign for President that any public insurance would, well, look exactly like what he got in the Senate bill.” was above your reading level?
I never knew that there was such a thing as a belligerent asshole with a victim complex.
Jonah Goldberg ring a bell?
Oh I see. So now it’s not that he didn’t lie to you, it’s just that you weren’t fooled. Oh, my mistake.
Fuck you, clown. Way to move the goalposts.
THIS…IS…MOMMY!
Way to move the goalposts, actor.
Jonah Goldberg ring a bell?
I said “victim complex,” not “Oedipus complex.”
>I also paid attention in 2008, and didn’t fall for his silky voice and clean neat appearance, dawg.
Oh I see, so now it’s not that he didn’t lie, it’s that you weren’t fooled. I won’t bother with further replies, because apparently you can just edit reality whenever you want.
Way to move the goalposts, actor.
He did not say “public option” at any point during any of the 2008 campaign. You can look it up, I suppose.
Sorry for your damn luck.
THIS…IS…MOMMY!
Ever see that episode of the new Dr. Who (the one with Christopher Eccleston and not my boyfriend) where nanobots turn everyone into a little child in a gas mask looking for his mother? That’s what right-wingers are like.
“clean, neat” and “dawg” affectation. Nice way to try to tinge it with race there.
What a fucking disgusting rhetorical move.
Ever see that episode of the new Dr. Who
No. I have no problem with people who like it, just as I have no problem with people who like Star Trek. I do not belong to either group. Extremely.
I for one will raise a glass tonight for IITCB’s late and lamented purity.
He did not say “public option” at any point during any of the 2008 campaign.
Notice that that is NOT what was claimed. The article refers to statements made in 2009.
But then, you’re the one accusing people of not reading shit, you self-righteous dick.
No. I have no problem with people who like it, just as I have no problem with people who like Star Trek. I do not belong to either group. Extremely.
I resent being lumped in with Star Trek fans, but I’ll get over it.
THIS…IS…MOMMY!
MOMMY…IS…SPARTA!!
I for one will raise a glass tonight for IITCB’s late and lamented purity.
Is that like being a “born-again virgin”?
Hey actor212, you gonna email Glenn so he corrects this? I mean, since you are so right and all.
Let me see if I’ve got IITCB’s argument right here: The HCR bill set to be voted on this weekend that is barely going to pass, if at all, is SO flawed, and SO MUCH a corporate sellout, that we should abandon Obama altogether, and go completely electorally Galt on the Democrats forever and ever times LMNI. If on the other hand, the Dems had stuck to their guns and demanded a bill with NO chance of passing, we would all feel better and have zero chance of passing even the most minimal HCR until your grandkids have grandkids. That about right?
MOMMY…IS…SPARTA!!
MOMMIES…IS…LESBOS!
I wonder if there’s a bizarro site where wingnuts read all the liberal blogs and make snide comments and Photoshops about them. Because if so, they’re probably enjoying this thread as much as I’m enjoying the UberSchusselHanniKrieg.
*yawn* Boring non-reading-other-people’s-comments-in-the-thread purity troll is boring and not reading other people’s comments in the thread. And being pure.
MOMMIES…IS…LESBOS!
If Mommy’s lesbo how’d we get here, HUH? HUH?
Parthenogensis?
“clean, neat” and “dawg” affectation. Nice way to try to tinge it with race there.
What a fucking disgusting rhetorical move.
Then next time, son, I suggest you check your “apologist” at the door.
You’re as funny as the right wing nutcases we mock here.
Hey actor212, you gonna email Glenn so he corrects this?
Why should I? Glenn’s right. Obama talked about a public option in 2009.
Again, if you can’t be bothered to pay attention to things as they happen, then your legitimacy in whiiiiiiiiiiiiining after the fact is minimal.
And don’t whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine that I tricked you. You should have paid attention to what I wrote in the first place.
Which is, of course, central to my point.
MOMMY…IS…SPARTA!!
If it’s DKW’s mom:
MOMMY…IS…SPURTIN’!
Arguing aside, I’m enjoying watching Andrew Stuttaford demolish Maggie Gallagher’s arguments (for those who have managed to forget, Gallagher is one of the humorless bigoted busybodies who opposes gay marriage).
If Mommy’s lesbo how’d we get here, HUH? HUH?
Parthenogensis?
You’re thinking of Athens.
You’re thinking of Athens.
AthenA
InsaneInTheCheneyBrain has been around here far longer than actor212 and is not a troll. Obama’s health plan prior to becoming president included a proposal for a new public option similar to what federal employees get.
I more or less agree with what Klein wrote and also what Brad wrote. But I don’t see how Brad gets what Brad wrote out of what Klein wrote.
Specifically, if you look at Klein’s list of groups that either support the bill, or are “split” or “incoherent” but aren’t totally against it–
1. pharma
2. insurers
3. the AMA [supports]
4. hospitals
5. labor
6. “the business community”
–it just doesn’t make sense to lump all of those groups together as “every major stakeholder and interest group in the country” and then claim that the living shit must have been bribed out of all of them, and that Obama should’ve tried harder to piss them off. Any industry leaders who have a lick of sense are fully aware that the status quo, whatever corrupt advantage they may have in it, is totally unsustainable. Any change that’s not so radical as to actually put them out of business, and that has a chance of addressing people’s needs enough to put them in a less guillotiney frame of mind, is a plus. The insurance industry has generally had less licks of sense than the rest and has kept hoping to squeeze blood from turnips, thus what Klein politely describes as their “incoherent” response. But hospitals and the AMA (even as reactionary as the latter is) have a considerable stake in trying something that may work. And it’s clear at this point that the Republicans have nothing to offer and would happily let everything keep going to shit. At some point enlightened self-interest does kick in for some people and reduces the need for bribery.
Anyway, clearly there are bad compromises in the bill, and some of them are things that are reassuring to pharma and insurers. But I don’t see what that has to do with the other 2/3 of that list, or the claim that Obama is trying too hard to please absolutely everyone.
Obama’s health plan prior to becoming president included a proposal for a new public option similar to what federal employees get.
Which is precisely what I said he did
InsaneInTheCheneyBrain has been around here far longer than actor212 and is not a troll.
Okay, you’re right. But you kinda sorta have to admit he’s trolling a little.
The Schlusseling is awesome. Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will just quietly drop the subject.
Doubt if it will just go away. Hannity will have to take the strap on ass-to-mouth to fix this one, I’m thinking.
Gawd, I’m sick. I need help.
Doubt if it will just go away. Hannity will have to take the strap on ass-to-mouth to fix this one, I’m thinking.
*cry*
I wonder if there’s a bizarro site where wingnuts read all the liberal blogs and make snide comments and Photoshops about them.
You asked for it.
Not at all.
I’d check out the post at the top of the thread. If people want to be pissed at Obama that seems reasonable to me. Hope it doesn’t result in a Republican win come next election.
I’m not trolling. I understand that campaign promises get abandoned often… just not used to them being abandoned beforehand, in a nakedly evil way.
I’m white-hot fucking enraged that Obama would cynically pump an idea he’d already knifed in the back — an idea with massive public support — just for some campaign cash from the fucking industries that are strangling us. I hope that asshole looks in the mirror with haunting shame at what he has squandered.
Jennifer wrote an eloquent comment here recently along these lines. I just can’t do it anymore. I can’t try to kick Lucy’s football any longer. The whole thing is fucking rigged. I’m not arguing for anybody else to do anything. I’m just anguished. It’s fucking over. I hope the whole edifice of society comes crashing the fuck down, because this is a joke.
Which is precisely what I said he did
Not at all.
So you’re saying a private insurance pool that people could buy from overseen by the government is, um, not the same thing as a private insurance pool that people could buy from overseen by the government?
Um. Ooooooooooooooooookayyyyyyyyyyy!
I understand that campaign promises get abandoned often
As I pointed out, he never broke a campaign promise, before you moved the goalposts. Again.
I’m white-hot fucking enraged that Obama would cynically pump an idea he’d already knifed in the back — an idea with massive public support — just for some campaign cash from the fucking industries that are strangling us.
Oh, sorry. Now I realize that you’re in the state I was three weeks ago. It sucks. I punched things.
Ahh, you’re pretty much right I suppose. It is, however, awfully nasty packaging.
I wasn’t even referring to that, except in a general sense. But you got your little after-the-fact, misinterpreted dig in anyway. Feel better?
Also, fuck you.
Umm, the present plan is not like the government plan…didn’t know fed employees had to buy health care. Though they got it with their job. Something called benefits.
Unless we are all going to be employed by the government. Wheeeeee!!!
The racial digs are kinda fucked up too…nice that people are being polite on the eve of this great step forward in US lawmaking!
They actually kinda do. Government only pays 75% of the premium.
Sounds like the corporate sector, depending on the plan. So pretty much like everyone else, it is a benefit of being employed.
Where can I sign up?
We shall see. Good luck.
Here’s what happened to that form of political courage:
It happened, it worked, it resulted in unparalleled political success for the last President who championed it, and this so freaked out every single person involved that they are scared shit to this day.
The guy who did it was FDR, a rich man from the highest of elite classes who had the example of a well-meaning and previously successful progressive (for his time). FDR then had the personal experience of being struck and nearly crushed by polio – which I think helped him realize that, in general, people can be struck low simply by random chance.
That is, that sometimes people are brought down after doing *everything right* – and thus, that it is not the poor’s fault they are poor, but it IS the government’s fault if they can do something but instead do nothing.
THIS is the populist no one wants to talk about – because he won an unparalleled FOUR ELECTIONS busting his ass for the common man. And even doing other sleazy political, even power-grabbing things along the way – because his bottom line was his commitment that no one would starve to death in a country he ran.
For some reason, I think this freaks the hell out of people. If politicians lived this way now, they would have to actually take responsibility for their leadership – and not simply give up, walk away from the table and blame everyone else. All because they’re too lazy to even force the opposition to ACTUALLY filibuster.
Woo.
This piece of shit health care bill should and (I guess) hopefully will pass – but for fuck’s sake. I’m at a loss as to what can be done to force the Democrats to do better. I hoped Obama was FDR, but it looks like he’s LBJ – which is still better than Nixon, Reagan or either Bush. But only by degrees.
I bet you guyz are shocked I haven’t weighed in on this post yet. Well, fresh of my mad linked analysis I been livin it up down in the bahamas. You know, tappin in to the trust fund a bit.
Anyhow. No problez on the ole health care front. Its all good. Most of the peeps should be covered.
This piece of shit health care bill should and (I guess) hopefully will pass – but for fuck’s sake. I’m at a loss as to what can be done to force the Democrats to do better.
Greenwald makes the case, pretty convincingly, “not much.” The Progressives don’t have a bargaining position. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/18/progressives/index.html
Rahm’s “Fuck you, progressive retards” position has more/less been vindicated.
I agree with T&U (and Greenwald, and Taibbi) that the odds of improving this bill are slim to none because, again, there’s no incentive to do so and because deals have apparently already been made with big pharm.
When I voted for Obama, I always understood I was casting a vote for “better than nothing, barely.” This legislation lives up to those robust hopes! It seems like I’m the only person I know right now who hasn’t been sorely disappointed, because my position going in was “Fuck you you fucking smirking corporatist slightly-lesser-of-two-evils motherfucker, here’s my vote.”
Jeepers! I guess that creating industry-wide consensus is a sell out. Who’d a thunk?
I guess then that our entire form of government is bad, too.
Did you all sleep through civics class, or didn’t you get one? Maybe you’ve never seen one of those cute cartoons about how a bill becomes law?
This kind of everybody gets something, but nobody gets exactly what (s)he wants has only been the essential manner of governance going back to the English Parliament, but I guess you were too busy watching Scooby Doo?
Must be fun to jerk off to fantasies of an American government that never was. Kinda like the teabaggers, now that I think about it.
Which kind did you “progressives” want: Oolong, Pekoe or Earl Grey?
“thanks for that, Nixon, may you rot in hell”
Nixon looks like a boyscout next to the current bunch. Imagine a time when a B &E was a big enough scandal to take down a President. Then look at today: outing CIA agents, against the law to negotiate for lower drug prices, drug imports banned, lied into two wars for oil, war profiteering, torture, Wall Street’s collapse, and today they get pensions and bonuses.
If this insurance boondoggle is the best Democrats can do with a mandate and a majority, let em lose.
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