Why should we allow a country to become “Islamist” just because of the irresponsibility of its own people?

Shades of Henry KissMyAssinger.

Maybe we should send the “Repent Amarillo” people to Turkey.

Why should we allow a country to become “Islamist” just because of the irresponsibility of its own people?

It should be obvious, by now, that we have the unalienable right to do whatever we want, whenever we want; especially when it comes to things involving the M-word.

Pictured above: Psycho and Psychoer…

Good for you, Mr. Pipes. Why, if Turkey became Islamist, IT WOULD DESTROY THANKSGIVING! If we are to protect our great American heritage we must invade at once!

I think it’s past time we send Daniel Pipes into Turkey to fight the brown menace on his own. No fomenting for wars you’ve got no stomach to fight yourself.

The funny thing is, I bet the Turks would be pretty nice to him. He could run around and try to battle Muslimanity, probably by hitting people and threatening to give speeches, and I reckon they’d give him a sandwich, a sedative, and a ticket back home.

we must invade at once!

Uh, we’re already there!

Dig this:

On four occasions between 1960 and 1997, the military intervened to repair a political process gone awry

Only an architect of Georgie’s Iraqi Adventure could claim that you can repair something by taking over and threatening to shoot it.

Whoops, should have been block-quoted.

On four occasions between 1960 and 1997, the military intervened to repair a political process gone awry

Turkey: A role-model for the US.

This should go in the last thread but since we’ve already moved on,

What to do in Georgia

If the US attacks a member of NATO, does that mean they’ve attacked themselves?

“The weeks ahead will probably indicate whether the country continues its slide toward Islamism or reverts to its traditional secularism.”

The hard right in the U.S. simultaneously wants Turkey to stay out of the EU (’cause white Europe shouldn’t have any hajji countries) and to not slide towards Islamism. The easiest, most stable and most legitimate way to stop Turkey’s slide into Islamism would be to let them into the EU, and let the Western influence mitigate the religious movement while strengthening the secular ones.

Naturally, that’s not even on the table in Pipes’ world;

“Turkey’s military has long been both the state’s most trusted institution and the guarantor of Atatürk’s legacy, especially his laicism.
Only the military, ultimate arbiter of the country’s direction, remained beyond AKP control.
Thus has the AKP thrown down the gauntlet, leaving the military leadership basically with two unattractive options: (1) continue selectively to acquiesce to the AKP and hope that fair elections by 2011 will terminate and reverse this process; or (2) stage a coup d’état, risking voter backlash and increased Islamist electoral strength.”

Of course. Why take the democratic and non-violent route when you can simply launch a military coup of the kind right wingers so love to masturbate to?

“But if the military retains its independence, Atatürk’s vision will remain alive in Turkey and offer Muslims worldwide an alternative to the Islamist juggernaut.”

And what’s the alternative? Military dictatorship, again? A system in which the will of the voters can be overturned at the whim of an institution simply because that institution has all the guns?

To the “Muslim world,” that’s not an alternative, that’s the fucking NORM. Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Iran, Pakistan, all stand as testaments to the practice. What makes Turkey different is that sometimes, most of the time recently, the country is ruled by laws other than just the principle of might makes right.

Ironically, Pipes and the other great defenders of Western civilization want to make Turkey less like the West and exactly like its southern neighbors (and never mind the supply of Turkish jihadists that would grow out of the process).

Crisis in Turkey
So it’s pizza again, after the firefighters have cleared out.

I think we should check with Michael Ledeen to see if Turkey is small enough for the U.S. to throw up against the wall…

From PeeJ’s link

Bearden, who made an unsuccessful run for state senate in the 1970s, has a criminal past that includes three stints in state prison and a 19-month stretch in federal prison, records show.

I wonder if he’s a cousin of mule-fucker Neal Horsely.

Maybe the Hannah Giles legal defense fund can follow this tack in order to raise funds.

Crisis in Turkey
So it’s pizza again, after the firefighters have cleared out.

I’m more concerned by the Greece fire

Um, I think this sitch is a bit more complicated than that–the Turkish military is, frankly, secularist in its approach, and really isn’t threatening a coup or anything of the sort. The “democratically-elected” gov’t there has, like our own from 2000-08 (and, likely, the present), maneuvered through back doors to consolidate its power and eliminate secular (i.e., properly democratic) threats to its hold on the country. The military in Turkey has been more diplomatically engaged with the EU and US for years. The “democratically-elected” gov’t there is, frankly, scary and manipulative.

I’m a bit saddened that, given the electoral ass-fuckings we’ve had over the past decade in this country, you all aren’t being a bit more thoughtful about the ways “democratically-elected” rulers can manipulate their electorates. I mean, Jesus, even Bush didn’t have the balls to throw Colin Powell in jail when Powell started to get “uppity.” However, that’s exactly what the “democratically-elected” regime in Turkey has done.

I knew that if I kept my childish faith that that st00pid “spam filter” bullshit would go away. Had a nice vacay, got a nice burn on the beach, wrote some thank-you notes.

Anyway, Turkey. Yeah, I think they’ll be fine as long as they keep smiling, keep shining, and keep using words like “bombalayacakti”, which is awesome no matter what it really means. Pipesey, though, needs to have a more up to date head shot; the one he has on his page makes him look like someone with a degree in massage from the University of Beijing.

There isn’t a story around that can’t be made better with a good bit of beastiality:

The legend runs as follows. After a battle, only an injured young boy survives. A she-wolf with a sky-blue mane named Asena finds the injured child and nurses him back to health. He subsequently impregnates the wolf which then gives birth to ten half-wolf, half-human boys. One of these, Ashina, becomes their leader and founds the Ashina clan that ruled the Göktürks and other Turkic nomadic empires

Welcome back, Goddamn Batman!

There isn’t a story around that can’t be made better with a good bit of beastiality:

It’s as if Romulus had an Oedipus complex…

Watching the military and democratically elected government struggle for power in Turkey, is much like watching the Yankees play the Red Sox. I hope the both lose, and never win another game ever. Even when, and especially when, they play each other.

P.S. The Goddamn Batman is back! Hooray!

From Ped’s link:

Beck says Greece is collapsing financially, as he predicted, because “communist invisible committee” has “foothold” there

They’re invisible!

And: Welcome back Goddman Batman.
In addition to.

Fuck
“GODDAMN”

Ah, yes, the Goodman Batman.

Nice to see you back in Gotham, old chum!

Pipes is just looking for some Turkish delight. Not the crappy candy, but some of this.

Pipes actually looks like he has a little Turk in him. Or maybe a big Turk.

Oh, and the Godman Batman would be a great Frank Herbert/Frank Miller transhumanist mashup.

Oh, and the Godman Batman would be a great Frank Herbert/Frank Miller transhumanist mashup.

Too bad Kirby isn’t around to illustrate it.

One of these, Ashina, becomes their leader and founds the Ashina clan that ruled the Göktürks

Okay, that was halfway plausible until you threw the Dragonball Z shit in.

Too bad Kirby isn’t around to illustrate it.

If only his personality had been uploaded into a supercomputer…

From what little I know, the military in Turkey is practically required to enforce secularism in government, no?

It’s one big hot mess. The western bit of Turkey, particularly Izmir, tends to be well, very Western. Liberal, secular, urban, Mediterranean. To the east, it’s mostly rural and conservative, and bordering scary Ay-rab conflict zones.

I don’t know that admitting them to the EU would help. There are lots of issues, major and minor, prejudiced and real. Anyway, we’re having enough trouble with Greece at the moment.

Too bad Kirby isn’t around to illustrate it.

If only his personality had been uploaded into a supercomputer…

Working on it.

You know what they say about vampire squids.

It’s true.

The Goddamn Batman is in his Bat Cave. All’s right with the world (more or less).

Oh, and Pipesy can blow the first goat unoccupied by Mickey Kaus.

I am isolated out here in the midwest. I haven’t heard what is said about vampire squids. Could you repeat it please?

We ought to support the Turkish military should it decide, yet again, to dismiss that country’s democratically-elected government.

That’s already happened twice in the 20th Century.

@Derek

Yes, it’s complicated. However, I don’t know on what basis you can assure us that the military wasn’t planning a coup or “anything of the sort.” If Colin Powell had drawn up plans and initiated training exercises for the military overthrow of the US government, he certainly would have been arrested, and not just for being “uppity” or because the Bushies were a bunch of fascists.

Putting scare quotes around “democratically-elected” isn’t a very effective way to make your point either. Conservatives do the same thing to Hugo Chavez and Barack Obama. Ohhh, effective! Maybe they weren’t really elected? Who knows!

Here’s an article from those Islamists at the Economist that gives a little more context. You can say it is about someone vs Muslims and I hate Muslims. You can say that it is about secularists vs religion and I hate religion. You can say it is about military dictatorship vs elected democracy and I love democracy. Ultimately, it is about another country with a different history and set of traditions and it can’t be explained with facile analogies to the Bush Administration. As you say, it’s complicated.

The western bit of Turkey, particularly Izmir, tends to be well, very Western. Liberal, secular, urban, Mediterranean. To the east, it’s mostly rural and conservative, and bordering scary Ay-rab conflict zones.

Quite Kurdish, as well. So you could say they’re on their tuffet with the Kurds and way.

It’s one big hot mess. The western bit … tends to be well, very Western. Liberal, secular, urban… To the east, it’s mostly rural and conservative, and bordering scary … zones.

Wait. That sounds like Washington State.

So you could say they’re on their tuffet with the Kurds and way.

More scansion, please.

“communist invisible committee”

Fucking hell, Beck, quit stealing my band names.

And welcome back Goddamn Batman!

More scansion, please.

I’m sorry, they let me thru rope lines, so I have no clue why stanchions exist.

You know who ELSE was a she wolf!?!! Ilsa, that’s who!

Also wlecome back to the GDBM.

Those are called stanchions? Why would anyone want to know that?

Those are called stanchions? Why would anyone want to know that?

You have to threaten to shove one up the ass of the person in front of you who keeps letting people in.

Then, of course, there are scrunchions, which go on your fish and brewis.

Freedom bird!

Then, of course, there are scrunchions, which go on your fish and brewis.

Could use scallions, I think.

Could use scallions, I think.

Not to be confused with scholions. Because that would be gross.

Yeah, let’s rush over there and break these officers (49 senior officers were detained on accusations of plotting to topple the country’s Islamist-rooted government in a violent coup.) outta the joint and then show them that we think they’re mass murderers! They’ll really like us then.

(And yes, I acknowledge that is not the correct plural form).

Stanchion would be a great bandage name.

the Islamist juggernaut
WRONG RELIGION.

Come to think of it, the Islamist juggernaut would be useful for conveying the Hindu Ka`aba from place to place.

God as my witness, big guy, I thought Turkey could fly.

I’m going to agree with 77south’s first post. Military coups and dictatorships are never a good thing, but if Turkey’s citizens decide to elect an Islamist government, I’m not going to stand up and cheer.

And FYWP. Posting too quickly? I haven’t even visited this damn site all day.

show them that we think they’re mass murderers! They’ll really like us then.

I think that they prefer “final solution coordinators”

Come to think of it, the Islamist juggernaut would be useful for conveying the Hindu Ka`aba from place to place.

That makes the Shinto Baby Jesus cry.

Those are called stanchions? Why would anyone want to know that?

Because “those things that are like three foot dildos with a base plate and a built-in retractable cock ring” is awkward.

three foot dildos with a base plate and a built-in retractable cock ring

Now there’s a band name.

PeeJ,
bit if you were to jam that all together and say it in german it will sound sophisitcated.
with a little google translate action my best guess is:

dieDingediewiedreiFußDildosmiteinerGrundplatteundeineintegrierteversenkbareHahn-Ring

Did you know that the Germans have over 300 words for dildo?

No, but I did think they had at least one or two that were 300 letters long.

Mein bratwurst has a first name, it’s F-R-I-T-Z.
Mein bratwurst has a second name, it’s S-C-H-N-A-C-K-E-N-P-F-E-F- F-E-R-H-A-U-S-E-N

three foot dildos with a base plate and a built-in retractable cock ring

AND BIG RED STRAPS

three foot dildos with a base plate and a built-in retractable cock ring

This seems like a good time to ask: what exactly is the “up on the backstroke?” I ask for a friend.

No, but I did think they had at least one or two that were 300 letters meters long.

That makes the Shinto Baby Jesus cry.

Shinto Baby Jesus is the Mithra of Jain Fascism!

Did you know that the Germans have over 300 words for dildo?

All of them humorless.

Gayest pontificate EVAR

The Vatican was today rocked by a sex scandal reaching into Pope Benedict’s household after a chorister was sacked for allegedly procuring male prostitutes for a papal gentleman-in-waiting.

what exactly is the “up on the backstroke?” I ask for a friend.

Nice to see you’ve got some friends outside your own community.

Gayest pontificate EVAR

Ooh, passing that one along.

three foot dildos with a base plate and a built-in retractable cock ring

Which one’s the singer?
I know, silly question.

three foot dildos

Those are foot MASSAGERS thank you very much.

Those are foot MASSAGERS thank you very much.

…But why do you need three of them?

One for each, of course.

three foot dildos

This clip comes to mind

I think we should check with Michael Ledeen to see if Turkey is small enough for the U.S. to throw up against the wall

Better work on your upper-body strength first – & make sure that wall is heavy-duty. Also.

Gayest pontificate EVAR

So THAT’s what that whole “kissing the Pope’s ring” deal is all about.

“kissing the Pope’s ring”

So that’s what the Vatican’s calling it these days!

Who let Crack Pipes have access to a keyboard again? He’s as infuckingcoherent as ever.

Here’s the problem in places like Turkey and to a different degree Algeria and Pakistan and Egypt. It happened in Iran, too.

I am a military dictatorship, or a military dictatorship that decides once in a while to offer the voters a chance to ratify my decisions.

I kill/imprison/marginalize all the political opposition. Much of that opposition is secular — communists, trade unions, rival political parties.

So who is left when people want to express their displeasure? Why, the mosques and Islamist parties in them, since the mosques are the only safe place to get together with like-minded anti-government protesters. Of course, there is a certain self-selection going on here. Should I be surprised if the net group of people opposing me is a bunch of jihadosts?

The people like Pipes act all surprised when in a free election the Islamists get votes, and thus the direction (in a general sense) of their government. Holy shit, people voted for what was available! And they were less-than-thrilled with voting in military dictators and their friends! Surprising, ain’t it?

This pattern is why Iran is an Islamic Republic. The Shah did in the Communists, the trade unions, the secular parties of all stripes. He didn’t dare touch the mosques. Funny how they ended up in the strongest position with the best organization.

Pakistan: who did Musharraf jail? Islamist parties? Hell no. He went after the trade unions. The secularists. They are still in jail. Then he tolerated a stack of corruption from every institution of the state, plus the depredations of the ISI. Now, let’s break out a crystal ball and take a stab — I’ll go out on a limb here — as to who is most likely to have the political muscle when he let? Hmmm…. some mysterious phenomenon makes Islamist anti-government parties popular. What could it be?

Algeria. The religious party (the FIS) which was willing to come to the table to take part in election in 1992, won and might have been forced to actually govern. (It wasn’t ike they swept things in parliament either).

But the old secular semi-socialists in Algeria’s military and the western powers were so scared of what might happen in the future that they said “screw this, no more elections” and then it’s like this big fucking mystery that the various other parties said “fuck it, we’ll go back to armed struggle.” Dudes, you just demonstrated that democracy wasn’t acceptable. Why should the FIS act as though it is? They have taken you at your word that the ballot box is not the way to go and you will only listen to gunfire.

Egypt. Same deal. Kill off the opposition and the Muslim Brotherhood is the only game in town. And make it clear you will never, ever hold an election you can’t nullify at the drop of a hat.

Holy fuck, does anyone think that the outcome would be different in Turkey, if the military insists on coups every time they get a result they don’t like? Or anywhere else? Why is there this idea that military dictatorships can maintain eternal control? Or that they should? You want to create anti-American insurgent groups, I can’t think of a more effective way. And the Pipes and Bush people and all those right wingers seem absolutely oblivious to this. So does David Brooks and Kristol and the whole lot of them.

The stupidity of “serious people” frightens me sometimes.

So “Three foot long” Pipes wants to put stanchions on Turkey and there may be mozzarella cheese involved (bit unclear as to that bit, might be a piece of shopping list).
This will do nothing unless there is some big fucker on the door, looks like a refrigerator, is called Mal or something. Then you have to have nice decor inside, dico ball and that. Get a young DJ guy in who’s looking for that one big break.
And the name…Turkey? I don’t think so. Even Mozzarella is pretty hopeless.

You don’t have dico balls. This is why you know nothing!
“Disco” shit.

All of this talk of Turkey is making me Hungary.

Gayest pontificate EVAR

Ever since His Holiness saw “Brokeback Mountain” it’s been one thing after another.

Then, of course, there are scrunchions, which go on your fish and brewis.

I thought those were what desperately aging women stuck in their hair to look like teens again?

BBB at 3:59

“you can download this as a ring tone”? ??? A *ring tone*?

“Excuse me, your pocket is talking about dildos again.”

All of this idiosyncretic talk about Muslim juggernauts and the Shinto Baby Jesus reminds me of tract creator Jack Chick [ http://www.chick.com ], who once bragged that his insider knowledge of Satanism came from a Christian who had formerly been the Grand Druid of a Satanist coven — which I remarked was sort of like saying you’re an expert on Buddhism on account of getting the straight poop from the former rabbi of a Buddhist mosque.

if you support neocon spread democracy even at the cost of our national security and triumph of al qaeda then be open in your support of the religious conservatives in the region. If our security trums thier self determination then support our best secular friend in the region the Turkish military.

w/r robert