This Piece Win’s Today’s “Heh-Indeezy” Award
Michael Hirsh, writing in Newsweek:
Talk to any responsible official or officer in the military, intelligence or diplomatic community. Most will tell you that Bush got most of the war on terror wrong (at least after the Taliban fell), that he invented a war of choice in Iraq and failed to finish the war of necessity against Al Qaeda. The toughest hombres in the country—not least some recently retired generals—are saying the “war president� has no clothes, that he has been, in effect, a disastrous war president. This is what I hear every week now as a reporter, from officials who identify themselves as Republican, Democrat or independent. It is what the facts, sadly, bear out: look at where the precipitous war in Iraq has brought us, and the new violence that is arising out of the unfinished business against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Yet the vast majority of Democratic leaders cannot bring themselves to say this—Hillary most prominently of all.
Yep. It’s time to repeat, over and over again, that Bush’s war on terror has been a collosal flop.
It’s not just that the war has been executed poorly, but that its entire premise is false. The Bush administration didn’t see 9/11 as the evil actions of murderous religious fanatics; rather, they felt it was a symptom of a broader sickness within the Arab world that could only be cured by American military power. This assumes that all Arab cultures are a monolithic whole that conforms closely to the fundamental beliefs of al-Qaeda. This is, of course, nonsense. While many aspects of various Middle Eastern cultures do in fact (to steal a phrase from my esteemed colleague Retardo) suck slimy green goat balls, none of them are anywhere near as bad as the death-worshipping nihilism of al-Qaeda. In other words, al-Qaeda are to Islam what Operation Rescue are to Christianity- very dangerous and violent sects, to be certain, but not symbollic of a broader belief system within the entire religion. The sooner more American policy makers understand this and stop trying to re-make the entire Middle East through military force, the safer we will become.
The Bush administration didn’t see 9/11 as the evil actions of murderous religious fanatics; rather, they felt it was a symptom of a broader sickness within the Arab world that could only be cured by American military power.
Hey Brad. Gotta disagree. What they saw in 9/11, cynically, was an opportunity. They now had their “war”. They could invade, threaten, roll back civil liberties, enrich selected corporations, and in every way exploit the tragic deaths of 3000 american citizens so they could do pretty much whatever they felt like doing, without legitimate explanation or discussion. And this is why they are criminals…
mikey
Mikey-
OK, fair enough. Karl Rove saw 9/11 as the ultimate election year card.
But the neocons like Wolfowitz saw 9/11 as a vindication of their view that the world must be ordered first and foremost by American power. The neocons had had their eye on Iraq for a long time- they saw it as the key to re-making the Middle East. 9/11 provided them the opportunity. Watch THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES- they have a lot of good stuff about this.
Ultimately, you’re right here, Brad. PNAC, AEI and Heritage have been making their desires/intentions clear for decades, while we laughed at their clumsy attempts to influence power. Bush I blew them off and did the right thing. Bush II, on the other hand, due to the influence he allowed cheney to carry, gave them access to the tools to try their theories. And 9/11 provided the excuse–it changed everything dontcha know..
mikey
This is what I hear every week now as a reporter
Pretty likely what all the DC reporters are hearing.
Hmm, remind me again, why is it an absolute shocker when this is even briefly stated in the press?
Oh, you mean that’s not on FoxNews?
The problem (beyond the Dems terror in addressing the pathetic “war on terror” War! On! Terror!!!1!) is now how to get out of it.
Any ideas? I’m fresh out.
There is another aspect of the problem. I reprint below two letters from the latest issue of Newsweek, sent in response to that magazine’s May 22 cover story on the NSA call-spying situation. (I’m typing them in by hand, so any errors are mine.)
“Your May 22 cover asks a good question: “What Else Don’t We Know?” Well, before September 11 we didn’t know there was a band of bloodthirsty killers in our country plotting to destroy the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol and kill as many Americans as they could. The era of fearing Big Borther is over. There is a real threat now — not to our precious privacy rights (an interesting idea for a people who seem to need to broadcast the most intimate aspects of their lives on television or advertise themselves on MySpace.com), but to our lives. The terrorists hate us and want us dead. We have a choice: hold on to the sophomoric ideas of a more innocent time or accept the responsibilities of our current time. If we choose the first, we can expect more 9/11s.” — Michael Burke, Bronx, N.Y.
“Here in the Midwest, no one cares about the government’s “Spying on Your Calls.” I could not imagine the government or anyone else wanting to listen in on everyday, mundane calls that people make. But if that is all it has to do, then let it do it. After 9/11, whatever the government does is just fine by me. After all, we have had no attacks since then.” — Frank Regan, Carmel, Ind.
No matter how badly the BushCo administration has failed in its “war on terror,” there are still people for whom “The terrorists are trying to kill us” trumps everything. EVERYTHING. It just boggles my mind that there are people who think that the founding principles of the nation, set out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, are “sophomoric ideas of a more innocent time,” and can be dispensed with if we are afraid that someone might be trying to kill us.
The problem (beyond the Dems terror in addressing the pathetic “war on terror� War! On! Terror!!!1!) is now how to get out of it.
Any ideas? I’m fresh out.
If you mean out of Iraq, I have no clue.
If you mean the GWoT!!, Kerry had the right answer in the debates (to me): treat terrorism like any other crime, prosecute the perps, improve security to reduce the chance of future attacks, stop screwing over other countries so much, and get the frack on with your lives. Get to the point where terrorism can only present an occasional nuisance, not completely control our society.
He was, of course, soundly ridiculed for “not taking the threat seriously” in every single media outlet. I don’t know that any Dem has addressed the topic since.
Rats. A serious discussion is going on here (what were the odds?). I’d pitch in and help, but I’m more of a mood to provide Michelle Malkin with a “Loony Leftâ„¢” quip that she can quote out of context, ‘cos we’re all, you know, crazy!
So… [ahem!]
What?! Dude, you are TOTALLY wrong! Operation Rescue is EXACTLY the same as every other Christian in this country!! Placed next to each other, you can’t tell them apart!!! So, the only real solution is th GET RID OF ‘EM!!!! ALL of them!!!!!
Let’s put ’em all in internment camps. Michelle could get behind that, right?
Not to subvert this fine thread, but what’s with that odd apostrophe in the post title? Goin’ all Marie Jon’ on us?
MM would not only get into it, HOT AIR would be having balloon drops into the camps.
Hmmmmmmm…… what constitutes colossal failure again? Defeating Al Qaeda? Bringing democracy to a country that had none? Setting up a new, secure Iraq that will be able to pretty much take over its own security by the end of the year? Yeah, that sounds like colossal failure to me. Well it would if I was an insane Democrat with nothing to say but to try to denigrate any progress that has been made in the world in the last 5 and a half years.
TROLL ALERT!!!!
Limpy, when none of the outcomes outlined in your post comes to fruition, then we’ve got a colossal failure on our hands. Next!
Gee–!! Was that truly He Who Fucked (over) annieangel? *titter* Looks like our reliance on troll sammiches is finally over!
Collosal Flop? Wow – That has a nicer ring to it than Miserable Failure.
Heh, Indeezy…
Hi, coulsd someone contact the manangementtto let them know the site isn’t loading properly?! Have tried but can’t fill out the contact froms. The links are all over the toip of the threads, and the comment boxes are way too small – I can’t see what I’m typing!
Cheers
If you paid attention to the news you would realize that all that I said in the previous post is already coming to fruition. It’s not difficult to see if you stop being so narrowminded to the progress that is being made.
‘all that I said in the previous post is already coming to fruition”
Again?
Yes, you see, it’s the liberals who are narrow-minded. Obviously we’re not concerned about Iraq – all we care about it bashing Bushitlerburton! Hearing about innocents being jailed/tortured/killed makes me momentarily sad, but then I remember that it will hurt Bush politically, and I’m all better. Besides, nobody talks about the bombs that don’t blow up.
Guys- do no argue with Shoelimpy. He is a fake.
Shoelimpy, before he became a fake right-wing troll:
What I found more interesting in the article is some of the reactions Bush is getting. The Senate wants Bush to give a clearer picture of what we are doing in Iraq and what our goals are. Bush obviously doesn’t want to (he doesn’t know).
Something a little more interesting is A) Democrats are starting to realize Iraq isn’t the War on Terror:
“The right thing for the United States right now is to refocus on the fight against terrorism,” Feingold said on “This Week” on ABC. “Iraq has ended up being a real distraction. Actually, a problem. I think it’s actually made us weaker rather than stronger.”
Which people have been saying for years now. Why does it take so long for people to actually start looking at reality? Does it really take 70% of the people not supporting Bush before the Dems will feel it is safe enough to act?
Do not
Shoelimpy, before he became a fake right-wing troll:
What I found more interesting in the article is some of the reactions Bush is getting. The Senate wants Bush to give a clearer picture of what we are doing in Iraq and what our goals are. Bush obviously doesn’t want to (he doesn’t know).
Something a little more interesting is A) Democrats are starting to realize Iraq isn’t the War on Terror:
“The right thing for the United States right now is to refocus on the fight against terrorism,” Feingold said on “This Week” on ABC. “Iraq has ended up being a real distraction. Actually, a problem. I think it’s actually made us weaker rather than stronger.”
Which people have been saying for years now. Why does it take so long for people to actually start looking at reality? Does it really take 70% of the people not supporting Bush before the Dems will feel it is safe enough to act?
Do not waste your time arguing with parodies, amigos.
And another one:
The fact remains that, despite Bush’s weak attempts to show the contrary, he completely manipulated the evidence leading to the Iraq War. That much is obvious to any critical observer. The Plamegate scandal, the Downings Street Memo, the revelations made by Richard Clarke (and of course his own character assassination), Powell and Rice’s pre 9-11 comments; these all lead to the same conclusion: Bush intentionally misused the intelligence on WMD on Iraq to justify war.
How do you spell “Shoelimpy?” P-H-O-N-Y.
[blush]Ooops![/blush]
I don’t travel the internet that broadly, so can anyone explain if there are theories as to why someone becomes a fake right-wing troll? I guess I’m operating on the sophomoric principles of a more innocent time, but I don’t understand the motive.
Shorter ShoeLimpy: If you guys would stop being so appallingly narrow-minded as to focus on reality, then Bush’s “War on Terra” is a success!
Shoelimpyâ„¢ is not a fake. I have on occasion written from a liberal viewpoint when asked to do so, but that has nothing to do with my own political beliefs. You of all people should know that, Brad.
Reality states that the War on Terror is going exquisitely well. If you would actually inform yourselves to the reality of the situation instead of listening to a bunch of sensationalistic garbage crammed down your throats by the liberal elite you would be able to understand that.
Reality states that the War on Terror is going exquisitely well.
Yep. That is SO far over the top, even beyond Ruppertesque, that it’s gotta be a fake. Hell, most wingnuts wouldn’t go anywhere NEAR that far. Where I come from, we have a name for a fella like this. We call him a dork….
mikey
Exquisitely, huh? Wow, I really need to see a direct quote on that, because that’s not what Reality told me.
You wouldn’t know reality if it looked you in the face.
Ooh snap, I guess you done told me! It really is like you’re rubber and I’m glue! Bracing. I cherish the thought of further discourse.
Well with reality generally we look at the facts. Facts such as:
Attacks are down in Iraq.
The democratic government in Iraq is progressing fairly smoothly, although obviously with a few bumps (we had a few bumps of our own you know in the early days)
The military forces in Iraq are developing as expected, and it is pretty much universally acknowledged that we will begin exiting Iraq around the end of the year.
Terrorism experts are all saying that Al Qaeda is hitting a low period. Despite the encouragement of Democrats, we really are defeating Al Qaeda.
Those are the facts, I don’t see how you are so confused on the idea that we are not winning the war on Terror.
I have to agree with Mikey in post #1. The neocons were waiting for, maybe even hoping for, something like 9/11. Here is a quote from the September 2000 paper, “REBUILDING AMERICA’S DEFENSES Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century” from the PNAC web site:
Well, they got their new Pearl Harbor, and they jumped on the chance. That’s why they were so quick to move. They’d been planning these wars all along, they just needed the causus belli to justify it.
“Attacks are down”
The government just formed Saturday, I guess it’s been smooth since then. I wish them well, but it’s a little early going to declare that mission accomplished exquisitely well.
“pretty much universally acknowledged that we will begin exiting Iraq around the end of the year”
“Al Qaeda is hitting a low period” I’ll take your word that some are saying that, but they still seem to be keeping busy.
And what the hell’s up with Kabul? Exquistely well was it you said?
Now, those are what we on the “world wide web” call “hyperlinks.” They are useful when one wishes to support a opinion instead of merely pulling assertions out of one’s nethermost orifice.
Anyone who seriously believes in the “liberal elite” is not for real. Therefore, ShoeLimpy is a troll.
To doubledip, here is a helpful definition.
reality, n.:
1. The quality or state of being actual or true.
2. One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: “the weight of history and political realities� (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.).
3. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
4. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality.
In other words, LimpShoe (or at least his arguments) does not reflect reality.