J-Stoss is a pretty cool name. Also, J-ell, or Jo-Sell.

I would love to see an effort in Stossel’s home town to charge him more for everything – groceries, gas, movies, electricity, etc. He’d probably be tickled pink that the profit-driven economy of his dreams had followed him home.

Stossel is an infuriating fuck. I can hardly be with his fucktardedness.

btw, when leaving this comment, I was asked to provide a “URI” — so I put “Geller”. Hope I passed the audition.

I think shortening people’s names is mean and unfair. It discriminates against those of us who have very short names and therefore cannot be “nicknamed” in this way.

I like to refer to Stossel as “the mustache of extortion,” myself.

I like to refer to Stossel as “the mustache of extortion,� myself.

Oh lordy lord that’s funny.

But… wait. Isn’t it a principle of neoclassical economics that prices are determined by the market, not by the seller? And in instances where it is determined by the seller, aren’t those “imperfect competition” systems where there is a monopoly or oligarchy?

Right? Ok, just making sure.

Not-so-shorter Stossel (‘Stache-el?):

Give a man a fish, and he’ll eat for a day. Gouge him on its price, and I’m your bitch for a lifetime.

Just last night I StumbledUpon a the Libertarian Party page (self-gov.org), where they proudly display a picture of J-Stoss as one of their “celebrity endorsers.” The first thing I thought (and so noted on the review page) was that I was suspicious of anyone who was proud of their association with this shell of a shell of a shit of a man. I specifically thinking back to his justification of price-gouging of water after Katrina, and realizing just how depraved an individual would have to be to not only condone, but to champion this practice. I mean, it has the word GOUGE in the fucking description.

Now I see he’s continuing his crusade to be viewed as the world’s biggest asshole. Gouging electricity may not have the same cache as water (I don’t use the phrase “cartoonish super-villainy” very often, yet here we are), but simply writing another column that would remind people that you advocated withholding water from suffering, dying people in the name of the Free Market is another big notch in J-Stoss’ belt.

I’d also like to share this anecdote: when I was in my high-school civics class, we were forced to watch a news special on the First Amendment, hosted by our man Stossel. The details are hazy, but I remember him being an utter prick (even to my young, tender mind). The crowning moment was when he was detailing the different kinds of protected speech, and one of his examples was an e-mail he received, consisting of a single line which he read aloud:

“John Stossel is a butt weasel’

Thank you, and good night.

I seem to recall (at the time of Katrina) some of these market-driven guys praising charging $20 for a bottle of water the most efficient way to allocate resources.

But… wait. Isn’t it a principle of neoclassical economics that prices are determined by the market, not by the seller? And in instances where it is determined by the seller, aren’t those “imperfect competition� systems where there is a monopoly or oligarchy?

Right. But the correct term is “oligopoly” 🙂

Evan beat me to it.

stossel – worst mustache ever. clearly, that thing has affected his brain. maybe if someone shaved it off, he’d be cured…

*smacks forehead* thanks Brad… I knew that, really.

Ugh. Just read some of Stossel’s other crap on various sites. Not only is he a complete fuckwit, but he writes about the most inane freakin’ garbage. Seriously. In his Greed is Good diatribe over at Town Hall last month he actually wrote the following line:

The Wieses are just the first in a long series of people who, by caring about themselves, make sure I get my steak.

As long as he gets his steak (and, presumably, some mustache wax), all is right with the world. Everyone wins!

Clearly, this guy is in dire need of some real problems.

I did a little thing on this too, the other day. (Well, about Stossel, Malkin and some other idiot.) As a commenter pointed out there, the generators probably would have been held as evidence since this dope got arrested.

If this is all it takes to become a hero, I’m gonna start overcharging everybody for everything right away!

If Stossel had made a simple economic argument that a chance for great profit is what drives some people to take risks that will contribute to the common good, I wouldn’t have had any objection. But it’s the fawning over this guy, calling him a hero. What the hell? As Brad R. points out, heroism doesn’t mean maximizing economic gain, at least in the world of real human beings. What’s next? Maybe Stossel can identify new heroes in the cigarette-and-ass-pounding economy of the federal prison system.

Needless to say, if he really wanted to be helpful (instead of greedy)

No, noooo, Brad. Greed is good. Don’t you read Ayn Rand? Jim Henley? Reason? “Rational self-interest” for such fuckos means screwing over the other guy as much as possible.

Man, I bet Stossel really really loves those soda machines the companies were trying out in South America. The price for a cold one goes up in relation to the temperature. 80 degrees? 50 cents. 110 degrees? 3 dollars!

Let’s say, just for fun, you kidnap John Stossel and chain him to the furnace in the basement. Just pretend. Then you charge him fifty dollars for a graham cracker. He would object (I assume) and say that the fact that he’d been kidnapped and held against his will obviates the legitimacy of the “market transaction” by which you realize a gigundo profit on your $2.89 box of graham crackers. And so it would.

But how different is that from the state of emergency and deprivation created by the hurricane? One scenario is against the law, while the other is an act of God. So what? Both involve complete negations of the buyers’ free will and right of choice–and isn’t that the necessary basis for market theory? I’m making this up, obviously, but still. If I hold a gun to your–no, not your; to Stossel’s–head and force him to pay me ten dollars for a Kit-Kat, what kind of market transaction is that?

Stossel wants to bestow upon this joker a *moral* award by calling him a “hero.” Jesus, are libertarians God’s special idiots or what?

More on those soda machines.

“How do you solve that problem? And how do you find out who should get those scarce items?”

One way is rationing…

The very best way to distribute scarce resources is to give the items to those who are willing to brandish firearms and threaten you with death. Also known as “robbing”, might-makes-right is the method nature relies on in the animal kingdom, and quite successfully. It also avoids the anti-libertarian requirement for a “government” to print “money”.

Yes, John, if everyone had equal money, a fair auction might work equitably. I’m sure there’s a planet in a universe somewhere where that is the case. Sadly, not this one. May you one day have the opportunity to learn the lesson first hand.

Impressive. This chowderhead seems incapable (or at least unwilling) to differentiate between recognizing a need and filling it, and the gross exploitation of a natural disaster of epic proportions.

Libertarians: the selfish, greedy wing of the Conservative movement.

Libertarians: the selfish, greedy wing of the Conservative movement.

Tom Delay, Jerry Fawell, GW, Dick Cheney, Wall St., Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Pat Robertson and a cast of millions agree: We are all Libertarians now.

Yes, there is another group of people languishing in jail that deserve to be freed and then given medals, a hearty handshake, and perhaps an evening with the mayor’s daughter because they’re such great heroes. This group is, of course, thieves.

These bold entreprenuers invest the tidy sum of zero dollars on a medium-sized rock, with which they can smash open a storefront window, often coming away with enough loot to earn up to 100$ at the local pawn shop. That’s over 200% pure profit! And as we all know, making money is GOOD, not evil!

Even better, shortly after the transaction at the pawn shop another group that deserves medals will be making some money: crack dealers. Once again- GOOD!

This is simply basic supply/demand economics, people. If you can think of a more efficient means of distributing needed crack rock, I’d sure like to hear it!

I knew there was something about Stossel I didn’t like. This story confirms that it’s not just the mustache anymore. He is now on my shit list with the appropriately named Mark Hyman of Fox’s very shitty segment, “The Point.”

Doctors have long concluded that parts of Stossel’s mustache have grown inward and burrowed their way into his brain, each relentless bristle piercing millions of braincells and causing all manner of disconnect and damage. The only remedy is a full Brazilian wax to the face.

This post hit a little close to home (SE Texas). I was a victim of Hurricane Rita (that bitch) and was without power for 2 weeks….in 95-degree temps. We had jackasses on the side of the highway selling generators for outrageous prices (but, some of them worked!).

But, believe it or not, there were even bigger assholes than the gougers (and Stache Stossel)….the local governments (and the respective officials) that still had dozens of unused, still-in-the-box generators months after all power was restored. These generators were for First Responders…of which I are one. The generators were supposed to be for us to have some kind of semi-livable conditions at the end of our 12-15 hour shifts. After 2 weeks, we finally bought a generator….hours before our power came back. Figures.

Why doesn’t Stache do a story on THAT?! Silly me…..that would require that fuckwad to do actual investigating and reporting instead of spouting his bullshit. If those gougers are his idea of heroes, he’d love our local officials. Hell, they’d probably give him a generator or 2. Kinda like they did for their in-laws, neighbors, ex-in-laws…..AAARGH!!!1!!

awwww. now look what i’ve gone and done…..tracked this shit all over your pretty, new place. sorry. i’ll get the oxi-clean.

Still laughing about “butt-weasel”. That really does sum it up!

We are all Libertarians now.

Ich bin ein Librarian.

mikey

If “Doctor D” David Schultz hasn’t (like so many other ex-wrestlers) died already, i say someone should hire the good Dr. to slap Stossel upside the head 20/20-style EVERY time he comes up with something this utterly fucking stupid

In a sick way, I can almost see a glimmer of the beginnings of something that might one day become sense in the Stoss’s argument. Not that this gouger is a hero- of course that’s immoral nonsense. But I am willing to concede that perhaps he’s not enough of a villain to warrant incarceration. He did IMPORT those generators, so they were, in fact, generators that would not otherwise have been available. Whereas the typical gouger takes resources that exist on-scene at a disaster and ensure distribution only to the wealthy. So this guy might be a special case deserving of leniency- an asshole within the accepted social norms of assholery.

Technically. Personally, I find price gouging to be obscene. I lived in a small Midwestern community during the massive flooding of the nineties, and I worked at one of those Wal-Marts that’s the only store in town. I was scheduled to open on the day that the water treatment plant finally flooded, which contaminated the tap water. We were told it was undrinkable even if boiled, so people were a little freaked. First thing my manager does when I show up at work is hand me the pricing gear and tell me to raise the price on gallon jugs of water- pallets of water god knows how old, covered in a thick layer of dust and cobwebs- from the current price of around 1$ (this was the early 90s, before the big bottled water boom hit middle America) to the new price of 6$. I told him to go fuck himself.

Fearing widespread mutiny, the manager decided not to try his hand at ordering some other lackey to raise the price. Instead he went to Big Boss, and Big Boss had to go out on his hands and knees on the muddy front sidewalk and price the pallets himself. All of this would lead to a series of events that would ultimately cost me my job, but it was worth it to see that prick have to get his hands dirty.

And since Wal-Mart was interested in both gouging AND rationing, they limited customers to two gallons per family per day. Gouging alone does very little to aid in rationing/distribution- there’ s always somebody with too much money and too much fear who’s willing to buy up far more than he needs regardless of the price. So, as usual, Stoss swings and misses on that part, too.

Stossel is right.

Generator man saw an opportunity to make some money. Maybe he wanted to be helpful as well, maybe not, but it really doesn’t matter as the devistation of Katrina doesn’t obligate selfless charity, nor does it guarantee everyone (or even a lucky 19) reasonably priced generators.

Selfless charity is honorable and praisworthy, but is that absence of it a crime?

How many of you drove your cheap generators down to Katrinatown?

How many of you drove your cheap generators down to Katrinatown?

Good point. I coulda made a fortune!

Okay, I’ll type slowly so you can understand: It’s not the “absense” of charity, it’s the “presense” of gouging. Nobody should be forced into charity, but taking advantage of a dire situation by trying to turn a quick profit is not only illegal, it’s immoral. If Sheperson had done the exact same thing, but had instead only charged what his costs were, it would be totally different (and admirable).

I think I’m violating my “Don’t Take S,N! Too Seriously” rule, but I don’t care.

Suggested summer reading for Stossel and other libertarians who can’t understand why everyone hasn’t adopted their mantra that price is the sole determinant of legitimacy:

E.P. Thompson, “The Moral Economy of the English Crowd in the Eighteenth Century” and “The Moral Economy Reviewed,” in his Customs in Common (1993).

Let’s say Generator Man had a couple of used generators laying around his garage and brought those down instead. How much could he have asked for those without being arrested?

Let’s say Generator Man had a couple of used generators laying around his garage and brought those down instead. How much could he have asked for those without being arrested?

That obviously becomes more difficult to judge. You’d have to factor in depreciation of the original cost of the generators, so depending on how old they were, he should have charged a lot less money.

Also, I’m not an expert in MissIssippi price gouging laws, so I don’t know how they specifically define gouging, if at all.

But let’s just take a look at Stossel’s argument that charging double what he paid for the generators would produce the most efficient allocation of resources. Nonsense.

With such a limited number of generators selling at a fairly high price, the only people who would have purchased them would have been people who could most afford to pay, who are not the same people as those who need the generators most.

Muffinhead wrote:

Stossel is right. . .Maybe [generator man] wanted to be helpful as well, maybe not, but it really doesn’t matter. . .

You’ve got odd ideas about heroism if you think motivation doesn’t matter. Imagine a fireman saying, “Yeah, I saved the kid–I didn’t really care about being helpful, but I thought it would maybe get me a raise.” That’s an example of your heroism.

You’ve got odd ideas about heroism if you think motivation doesn’t matter. Imagine a fireman saying, “Yeah, I saved the kid–I didn’t really care about being helpful, but I thought it would maybe get me a raise.� That’s an example of your heroism.

More accurately: “I told the kid I’d save him as long as he gave me his lunch money.”

But let’s just take a look at Stossel’s argument that charging double what he paid for the generators would produce the most efficient allocation of resources. Nonsense.

With such a limited number of generators selling at a fairly high price, the only people who would have purchased them would have been people who could most afford to pay, who are not the same people as those who need the generators most.

Yes, I see how its difficult to resolve this, as many in need just can’t afford. But, isn’t this the realm of government support rather than government crackdown. I’m sure Sheperson could have easily sold those generators to people who are in need and who are also able to afford. Is that so bad?

Look, I probably get the same gut reaction to this story as you. I don’t think like Sheperson and his generator idea isn’t something that would pop into my head during a tragedy such as Katrina. But, the bottom line is: if he would have been able to sell those generators, he would have made life a little better for some devastated people down there — I imagine thankful people. He, also, would have accomplished something more helpful than I.

You’ve got odd ideas about heroism…

I mentioned nothing about heroism. I was, rather, excluding the notion of anything near heroism.

Shorter muffinhead: The fact is, The Market is who will, and should, penalize price gougers. *goes back to bobbing on Stossel’s crank*

That’s right. Eat it. Cobag.

Muffinhead wrote:

I mentioned nothing about heroism. I was, rather, excluding the notion of anything near heroism.

I assumed that when you wrote, “Stossel is right,” you were referring to the same column everyone else was, one titled, “Mississippi has a place for heroes: jails”. My mistake.

Give a man a fish, and he’ll eat for a day. Gouge him on its price, and I’m your bitch for a lifetime.

I don’t quite get the phrasing. I’d’ve said, and he’s your bitch for a lifetime.

Give a man a fish, and he’ll eat for a day. Gouge him on its price, and he’s your bitch for a lifetime.

Now that’s an accurate and effective meme.

Does anyone else think J-Stoss and Jonathan Edward would make a cute couple? Just askin’ . . .

This guy isn’t a “hero” for selling generators, but he did have a positive overall effect. Bringing in more generators increases the supply which in turn lowers either the price or wait time for everyone else who need generators.

“the only people who would have purchased them would have been people who could most afford to pay, who are not the same people as those who need the generators most.”

What other other method of allocation would you suggest? A lotto? The person with the most ammo? Who can walk the farthest? Stand in line the longest? Maybe let the government handle distribute them (which means they would have been in a warehouse for about six months.

Well, see, poor people in this country are just spoiled. They think that they are entitled to electricity, for God’s sakes!
I mean really!
Greed has two sides to it. One is getting all you can for yourself. The other is making sure that others are deprived of things. You can only really enjoy something if you know that other people can’t get it. There are many in this country who long to make it into one of those places where most people live in mud huts with no electricity and a privileged few live in big mansions with all the luxuries of life.

like the good old days in Louisiana.

“Erm?”

Erm?!?

I mean, really, who the fuck says “erm?”

Read that sentence out loud:

“John Stossel’s column this week is… erm… well, just read it for yourself.”

Did you really say “erm?” Have you EVER heard anyone say “erm?”

Are you British? Aussie? Irish, maybe? I’ve never heard an American say “erm.”

I’ve heard “er,” “hmmm,” and Ed Koch’s favorite utterance, “uh,” but never an “erm.”

Maybe you’re trying to affect an accent? Why not try Russian (gmmm) or Japanese (ohhh). Erm just isn’t cool. “Erm” is as fucktarded as “heh” (indeed or not), and is something up with which I will not put!

Die, erm, DIE!!!!!!

Stossel’s been caught lying on air so many times it’s amazing people don’t use sterile tongs and gloves when handling his crap.

He was forced to apologize on air for faking research that “indicated” organic food contained as much pesticide redidue as non-organic food.

Three of his producers quit rather than skew research to suit Stossel’s agendas.

He went to an anti-rape rally at Brown University ‘ as a “reporter”, swore at the students, and asked one girl a hypothetical question about how she’d react if he fondled her breast.

In all, Stossel is a fraud, who is also apparently Andrew Sullivan’s latest squeeze toy.

Stossel is late to the “Price Gougers Are Society’s Altruists” game. We’ve already seen such avante-garde libertarian sociopathy:
Gouge On: A defense of gas profiteering.

Which is essentially what the same guy wrote three days after 9/11:
Panic at the Pump

What a wonderful world this is, eh?

WRT the ‘tache; didn’t we learn at Pandagon a few months back that hair takes too much memory, and that therefore, people with too much hair will be — um — mentally impaired?

The amusing thing about libertarians is, when hard times strike, and they find themselves in a disadvantaged situation, they’re the very first ones in the government benefits line with their hand held out. Once things are back to normal, they go back to bashing any kind of social safety net. If irony could kill, they’d be dead a thousand times over.

Can’t tell you how much this pains me but I’m going to have to side at least a little with Stossel here. I spent September through December working relief efforts along the Mississippi Gulf and the place was (and in many ways still is) like a war zone. Comments about making a reasonable profit with money left over for gas and lodging are just not in touch with reality. There was often no lodging available within 200 miles of the coast. There was often no fuel.

Was generator man a hero? No, I won’t say that he was a hero. Did he gouge? Well, I dunno. What’s a fair price to pay for goods in a war zone where help is scarce, where power is out, where the heat and humidity and lack of ice and refrigiration add to the misery and the toll?

If generator man had been a local merchant with existing stock that he bought for a wholesale price, then yes, he’d be gouging. But that’s not what generator man was. Generator man was a private citizen who saw a need and an opportunity. risked his own capital, bought 19 generators (generators which otherwise may never have been available to those in the affected area that needed them) and drove himself to a part of the country that looked like a war zone, had no rooms available, had scarce fuel and sold them for double what he paid. So what? Do you have any idea how much FEMA was paying trucking companies to let trucks filled with ice idle for days on end in Selma, AL? Any idea what contractors like CH2MHill were getting (and are getting) as a fee to set up eacy tiny travel trailer?

If our government had been prepared instead of being led by incompetents, perhaps generator man would not have had a market for those 19 generators. But given that the government response was incompetent,. there was a market, generator man took the risk and 19 people/families/businesses got a generator for a price they were willing to pay much sooner than they would have otherwise.

Like I said, it pains me to be siding with John Stossel but in this case, he’s right. I was there. I know.

It’s not the “absense� of charity, it’s the “presense� of gouging.

Only someone who experienced the aftermath of Katrina first hand would say that willingly investing your money to buy generators and going into that war zone with no guarantee of what your return would be even if you did sell them for double what you paid was gouging. I expect that given the fact there were no generators to be had anywhere in the state (or in Alabama, Georgia, Florida and Louisianna too for that matter), the opportunity to buy a generator for merely double price would have seemed to be a screaming bargain.

I’m a liberal but I was there. Some people here are just not aware of the reality.

ERM –

J-Stoss is a stupid, stupid man, morally bankrupt and all too willing to ignore reality in favor of Darwinian Libertarianism. Fuck ‘im.

And as far as the oil companies go – sure, a PROFIT is fine, but when you’re talking the obscene returns the oil companies are actually making at the moment, well, it’s rather like a big fat guy cleaning out the local Chinese buffet singlehandedly and when people complain defending himself on the grounds that he has to eat, too. Whattya want, he should starve to death?

I don’t use the word “hero” very often, but you, John Sheperson, are the greatest hero in American history….

I’m with Roman; the generator guy saw an opportunity, and put himself in hock to make some cash. But he did transport generators to where there weren’t enough, and that’s the value he was creating. Perhaps the best remedy would be a few more like him, leading to localized oversupplies of generators and crashing prices as hocked-up gougers dump their stock in panic.

What is wrong is that FEMA was run by crony of the President, and was so poorly managed that the emergency conditions for generator-guy to make a fast buck endured much longer than necessary. That’s the bad effect anarchists like Stossel on have on Republicans; first they convince Republicans that government has no legitimate role, then Republicans hand out top-level postings to their drinking buddies figuring what they heck, it won’t make a difference anyway.

[…] BTW, the fine folks at Sadly, No! have a wonderful fisking of this calumny…er, column. […]

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