Dude, where’s the pride?

I wish I were allowed to ask a question at the daily White House press pool. Because if I were, here’s what I’d ask Robert Gibbs:

“Dude, both Joe Lieberman and the banksters just pissed in your boss’s face. Doesn’t that, like, bother him?”

For someone who’s such an alleged narcissist, Obama sure does let himself get pushed around a lot. I never expected the guy to be a liberal hero but I did at least expect him to have some pride and self-respect. Now when Holy Joe Loserman and the banksters yell “CAVE!” Obama’s response seems to be, “Under how much rubble, sir?”


UPDATE: I… sigh… sigh… sigh…

Biden On Lieberman: ‘I’m Confident Joe Is Going To See The Light’

Vice President Joe Biden says he’s confident Sen. Joe Lieberman will come around, but says everyone is engaging in “gamesmanship” to get the maximum leverage from the bill.

Today Biden appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” defending his old Senate colleague as “a great guy.”

But Biden said “honest to god” he doesn’t know what is up with Lieberman (I-CT), whose opposition to elements of the health care bill has put Democrats in a major jam. But he added he learned from his own senate service, “never question another man’s motive, question his judgment.”

[…]

Former Congressman Joe Scarborough noted that Lieberman has flip-flopped on health care, and Biden laughed, “If we held flip flops against everybody in the Congress we probably wouldn’t have many people there.”

We’ve now reached the point where Joe Scarborough is more willing to take a tough line on Lieberman than the vice president of the United States.

And look, I don’t question Lieberman’s motivation either. That’s because I know his motivation. And it’s about petty revenge. How is it that I see this and allegedly smarter folks do not?

 

Comments: 179

 
 
 

Let’s wait until the bill gets out of conference committee. Then, we can talk about who caved and who got played.

But yeah, Obama does seem to like the Goldman Sachs golden showers.

 
 

Is “Holy Joe Loserman and the Banksters” some doo-wop band?

 
 

@shygetz doesn’t matter. Loserman pissed in the Democrats’ faces and they immediately caved to him. That should just never happen. I’d honestly rather they give Olympia Snowe whatever she wants rather than kiss up to Loserman.

 
 

Why not go all-in…

“Dude, both Joe Lieberman and the banksters just pissed in your boss’s face. Is it because he’s black?”

 
 

It was pretty astonishing to see the banksters get “summoned” to the White House and simply decide not to show up, eliciting the loud sound of crickets chirping in response.

The bully pulpit ain’t got much bully in it these days. More’s the pity.

 
 

It was pretty astonishing to see the banksters get “summoned” to the White House and simply decide not to show up, eliciting the loud sound of crickets chirping in response.

Yep. How does this sort of thing NOT piss off someone with as big an ego as Obama (or ANY politician for that matter)? No pride. It’s like we elected Jim Zorn. Maybe soon Lieberman will insist that Obama hire a Bingo caller to start making policy decisions for him.

 
 

Actually given who Obama has appointed to give him “economic” advise, that Obama is very, um, pro-banker is not surprising at all. Actually I was (pleasantly) suprised that he gave the bankers even a good talking to.

Although we don’t know what went on before the talking to — it could have ranged anywhere from “you’re still my buds … you know I just have to look like I’m being tough with you to survive politically” through “sorry to say what I’m gonna say, but business is business” through “you know you guys blew it”

 
 

I’d honestly rather they give Olympia Snowe whatever she wants rather than kiss up to Loserman.

I got a twenty says this is precisely what happens. I’d even bet that Reid and McConnell have their 2010 trading cards out now.

 
 

It’s like we elected Jim Zorn.

BRAD?!?!?!?!

How could you stoop this low????

 
 

Actually given who Obama has appointed to give him “economic” advise, that Obama is very, um, pro-banker is not surprising at all.

No but again they pissed in his face. Pride has to kick in at some point. You are, you know, the president of the United States, right?

 
 

How could you stoop this low????

Ain’t me who’s stooping.

 
 

Ain’t me who’s stooping.

But two Zorns don’t make a right!

 
 

Shorter Chuck Norris: Obama wants to kill the baby Jesus. No seriously, trust the shorter.

http://townhall.com/columnists/ChuckNorris/2009/12/15/what_if_mother_mary_had_obamacare?page=full&comments=true

 
 

I get the feeling the State of the Union address is going to be nonstop catcalls and tomato-pitching from the GOP side of the aisle (and the Blue Dogs and the media), with Obama just shrugging and letting ’em scream. Dude thinks he’s looking resolute, but everyone else thinks he’s just another wimp Democrat.

You guys elect me in 2012, and I promise to drop 90% of the GOP congressmen into the Marianas Trench.

 
 

Loserman pissed in the Democrats’ faces and they immediately caved to him. That should just never happen

And at the same time, the Democrats will eagerly jump to piss in the face of imaginary hippies. It’s like Roy Rogers said “I’m not a member of an organized political party. II’m a Democrat.”

 
 

I promise to drop 90% of the GOP congressmen into the Marianas Trench

Oh surrrrrrre, pollute the last remaining unexplored frontier on the planet!

 
 

It’s like Roy Will Rogers said “I’m not a member of an organized political party. II’m a Democrat.”

Roy had the Fixins’ Bar.

 
 

You guys elect me in 2012, and I promise to drop 90% of the GOP congressmen into the Marianas Trench.

I would never vote for someone who proposes that kind of environmental destruction.

 
 

oops. Thanks actor.

also, damn you actor.

 
 

Dammit, people, the Marianas Trench wants fresh sooooouuuulssss!

 
 

Marianas Trench wants fresh sooooouuuulssss

She must be deep, to need so many “souls”… *winkwinknudgenudge*

 
 

gocart mozart …

Didn’t trust the shorter and now I am as confused as my students (who are currently taking a final and are asking me questions to clarify material I’ve went over multiple times in lecture): did Mary ever consider aborting Jesus? I’m not a Christian so maybe I missed that part of the Christian Bible where it says “and lo Joseph considereth saying unto Mary, abort the fetus but an angel explaineth to Joseph that abortion would not be covered under their health insurance”?

 
 

DAS,

Apparently you missed the news from Earth Prime

 
 

Interestingly, end of life by stoning counseling was covered by the Virgin Mary’s HMO. Little known biblical fact.

 
 

I will swallow you whole.

 
 

Of course, the Resurrection occured when Blue Cross (get it?) refused to cover the Crucifixion.

 
 

doesn’t matter. Loserman pissed in the Democrats’ faces and they immediately caved to him.

Oh, we (and Obama) are fighting for the HCR Senate bill? I thought we were fighting for the HCR law. And said law will come out of conference, not out of the Senate. So, of course it matters if you’re actually keeping your eye on the ball and not on the pretty girl in third row (you know the one I’m talking about).

If all Lieberman wants is a symbolic victory in the Senate, I say give it to him to move this train along and adopt the House bill in committee. Now, if the actual conference bill turns out this crappy, then yeah, Obama just got the lead role in Deliverance and asked for an encore. But if the conference bill turns out like the House bill, then Lieberman (I-Aetna) just shot his influence on a purely symbolic effort.

 
 

GoCart Mozart, you just gave me my dose of FURY for the day.

“Shorter Chuck Norris: Obama wants to kill the baby Jesus. No seriously, trust the shorter.

http://townhall.com/columnists/ChuckNorris/2009/12/15/what_if_mother_mary_had_obamacare?page=full&comments=true

I should have trusted the shorter, but the article is seriously worth reading for an idea of how deranged the man is.

Chuck Norris; Are you seriously implying that Mary would have aborted Jesus if given the chance? Wow – shorter Chuck Norris, “Women are just stupid, morally blind and prone to killing their own babies by definition and must be tightly controlled for that reason, whether or not they happen to be the Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God,” who by the way, if I remember my Sunday schooling, was politely ASKED by an angel if she’d like to carry the child and had every chance to say “no.”

 
 

He justifies it this way;

“What if that young, poor and uninsured teenage woman had been provided the federal funds (via Obamacare) and facilities (via Planned Parenthood, etc.) to avoid the ridicule, ostracizing, persecution and possible stoning because of her out-of-wedlock pregnancy?”

Projecting his own views and reactions (and the religious right’s) to premarital sex onto the Hebrews of 2,000 years ago, Chuck Norris thinks women in Biblical times would have been subjected to stoning by a population too sociopathic and self-righteous to understand a simple mistake.

In other news, Chuck Norris also thinks Biblical times were just grand and should be implemented in America for the benefit of all. People whose think Biblical times were worse than they actually were aren’t unheard of – people who think they were worse than they actually were AND STILL WANT TO IMPLEMENT THEM, that’s something new.

Well fuck you, Chuck Norris. Fall into the abyss that awaits you and your master.

 
 

“Of course, the Resurrection occured when Blue Cross (get it?) refused to cover the Crucifixion.”

I think Blue Cross in those days would cover up to three days. After that he would have had to pay out of pocket.

 
 

if you’re actually keeping your eye on the ball and not on the pretty girl in third row (you know the one I’m talking about).

this could actually explain much of my life.

 
 

I don’t think those robes HAD pockets, gocart.

 
 

course, maybe he could just stick bills of various denominations on those thorns….

 
 

Chuck Norris has obviously taken WAY too many kicks to the melon.

It makes him think the “Chuck Norris Facts” means people need to take his opinions seriously. Old Man Roundhouse-Kicking at Clouds.

 
 

Dammit, people, the Marianas Trench wants fresh sooooouuuulssss!

Ahh. See, there’s your problem.

You are presuming Republicans HAVE souls.

 
 

Chuck Norris has obviously taken WAY too many kicks to the melon.

Or perhaps… not enough.

 
 

I think Blue Cross in those days would cover up to three days. After that he would have had to pay out of pocket.

Didn’t matter. Jesus was refused coverage because he had a pre-existing condition of Messiah complex.

 
 

I don’t think those robes HAD pockets, gocart.

Jesus wore the first Snuggie.

 
 

Yes Scott, he deserves a few more kicks. Preferably by Adam Vinatieri.

 
 

I don’t know why there’s so much resistance to dumping Republican congressmen into the Marianas Trench. The splatterific implosions would be fun for all, and the horrific deep-sea monster-fish need something to eat.

How about strapping them to the outside of a rocket using barbed wire and shooting them into the sun? That shouldn’t have too serious an environmental impact.

 
 

“What if that young, poor and uninsured teenage woman had been provided the federal funds (via Obamacare) and facilities (via Planned Parenthood, etc.) to avoid the ridicule, ostracizing, persecution and possible stoning because of her out-of-wedlock pregnancy?”

JESUS, MARY, AND JOSEPH! Mary was married! To Joseph!

 
 

The splatterific implosions would be fun for all, and the horrific deep-sea monster-fish need something to eat

It’s the levels of arsenic.

 
 

Yes Scott, he deserves a few more kicks. Preferably by Adam Vinatieri.

Sorry, forgot the link.

 
 

The Shrill One weighs in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/opinion/14krugman.html

And to me, this is it. If Barry can’t step up and repair the damage (i.e., the three decades of complete deregulation of financial institutions and the resulting, repeated carnage that ensued) then he has really dropped the ball. We now live in a country where outright usury and Ponzi schemes are the norm for financial institutions. I mean, fuck.

 
 

Yes Scott, he deserves a few more kicks. Preferably by Adam Vinatieri.

Hey! You found a rare film of the kick he MADE!

 
 

“And it’s about petty revenge. ”

O rly? (No, not Taitz. It’s what the kids are saying, or at one point were saying, to express skepticism.)

I thought it’s about being bought and sold by the Connecticut-based insurance companies. Or am I being VERY old-fashioned.

 
 

From TPM:

Emanuel didn’t just leave it to Reid to find a solution. Emanuel specifically suggested Reid give Lieberman the concessions he seeks on issues like the Medicare buy-in and triggers.

Um exsqueeze me? THESE are the dangerous Stalinists the wingnuttery is ‘fraid of? These “go along to get along” milquetoasts?

SHHHEEEEE-YITT.

I mean, I realize they’re deranged paranoid morons to begin with, but JESUS H. TAPTOEING CHRIST.

 
 

too serious;

PENIS

 
 

too serious;
PENIS

We like things in a serious vein.

 
 

Not an analogy that’s going to inspire a lot of LOL action, buuuuuut … Obama doing a 180 on a strong public option reminds me an awful lot of Commandante Codpiece doing a 180 on killing “reforming” Social Security.

Pride? That may be the problem to begin with – if you’re thinking about how bitchen you’re going to look in the history books by always being Mr. Nice Guy, it’s not hard to wind up becoming Mr. Doormat.

Someone in the White House really really needs to get in touch with his Inner Dirty Rotten Bastard.

 
 

“…it matters if you’re actually keeping your eye on the ball and not on the pretty girl in third row (you know the one I’m talking about).”

Is this that Mariana I’m hearing about? Don’t you think it’s rude to call it a “trench?” I mean, really.

 
 

um,

” deranged paranoid morons ” = wingnuts

just thought I’d make that clear.

 
 

Don’t you think it’s rude to call it a “trench?” I mean, really.

Depends on how many time she’s “been around the block”, as it were.

 
 

Someone in the White House really really needs to get in touch with his Inner Dirty Rotten Bastard.

This. Politics is a contact sport. I would like to think that there is some 11-dimensional chess underway but since that seems not to have been borne out in any previous policy discussions, I am hoping for a little more hardball and humiliation. It’s not like Republicans aren’t prone to such things (and squeal like babies when it is administered). Stones, Barry, have them.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

It’s not like Republicans aren’t prone to such things (and squeal like babies when it is administered).

They’re little fucking Eddie Haskells and they squeal like babies no matter what. You might as well get shit done.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Here’s the thing–I think Obama’s used to dealing with bullies. In fact, I think that’s partly why McCain became so erratic. He is a quintessential bully, and he realized that his bullying was just *not working* and he had no idea what else to do. The whole fucking Republican party is full of bullies at this point, so I don’t know why he’s had such a problem confronting them, unless a) he’s so concerned with appearing to be bipartisan that he doesn’t want to stand up to them, or b) he doesn’t want to confront them because they’re actually pushing the agenda that he wants.

 
 

From gocart mozart’s link:

Others have pointed out the absurdity in suggesting that Mary, married, would have chosen to terminate her wanted pregnancy if only she had health insurance. (It might have gotten Jesus born in a clean bed, instead of a stinking unhygenic stable surrounded by farm animals, but anything that causes an decreased risk of infant mortality for the Saviour can’t be good, right Chuck?)

I would like to call attention to this bit:
Then, on Thursday, the House of Representatives rushed the clandestine approval of an overinflated $1 trillion omnibus bill, which includes 5,224 earmarks — costing about $3.9 billion

So that’s…hmm…0.4% of the bill? Shocking, the way these earmarks pile up the national debt by causing rounding errors isn’t it? Do you suppose it’s Chuck who doesn’t know how many zeroes are in 10^12 compared to 10^9, or is he just assuming his readers don’t?

 
 

he doesn’t want to confront them because they’re actually pushing the agenda that he wants.

Well, if that becomes apparent, the shit from his own side of the political fence is going to engulf him. And I don’t mean in the House or Senate (although some there, as well) but from the rest of us. Continuance of the past 30 years is not what he was elected to do, no matter how hard the headwinds. And I don’t want to think about what kind of “crisis” would have to occur to move him along, if that is indeed the catalyst needed.

And DKW’s mom. She’s a catalyst, if you get my drift (and I am sure you do).

 
 

It also seems to me sort of unfair to only mention that it’s a “trillion” dollar bill if you excerpt all the cost savings from other areas of the government — i.e., you wouldn’t spend money in a currently existing program if the new program covers that item — and the fees and revenues.

 
 

If we armed health care beurocrats and and made them part of the defense industry, then cost would not be an issue.

 
 

““And it’s about petty revenge. ”

“I thought it’s about being bought and sold by the Connecticut-based insurance companies. Or am I being VERY old-fashioned.”

Can’t it be both? Lieberman’s a vindictive little shit, and in this case, he’s fortunate that his job is also his hobby.

In other news: Man, is Chuck Norris batshit crazy or what?

 
 

If we armed health care beurocrats and and made them part of the defense industry, then cost would not be an issue.

Please don’t give them ideas!

“I’m sorry, Mr. Smith, your biopsy came back positive for prostate cancer. Now I recommend an excision, but you have the option to use the mortar grenade or the M-16 rifle. Now, my recommendation would be the…”

 
Consumer Unit 5012
 

Someone in the White House really really needs to get in touch with his Inner Dirty Rotten Bastard.

I’ve spent the last two decades wishing Lyndon B. Johnson was still around.

 
Consumer Unit 5012
 

(Ooops–hit send too soon.)

It seems to me that Obama is making the same mistake Clinton did–trying to make friends of people who have sworn to destroy him and everything he has ever touched. It didn’t work too well for Bill, either…

 
 

“I’ve spent the last two decades wishing Lyndon B. Johnson was still around.”

I’d go for his successor and alter ego, Richard Nixon. A Republican who introduced a plan for universal health care and said “We’re all Keynesians now” can’t be all bad. Besides, his depredations weren’t even close to being as bad as what Reagan and W inflicted with complete impunity.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Well, if that becomes apparent, the shit from his own side of the political fence is going to engulf him

Honestly, I go back and forth on whether or not he is actually trying to get this shit done. Hamsher et al (misanthropes, I know 🙂 ) have theorized that the Democrats are deliberately dragging their feet on this because they don’t want to give up industry money and can blame the Republicans and/or Lieberman for the legislation’s failure.

Most of the time I think that’s bullshit, especially since a comprehensive health care plan would guarantee Democratic dominance for the next eleventy quadrillion years, but maybe the lure of lobbyist money is stronger…

 
 

Besides, his depredations weren’t even close to being as bad as what Reagan and W inflicted with complete impunity.

WHOA!

Tell that to the Cambodians and Laotians! There’s the forerunner to Iraq right there.

Nobody thought Nixon’s “assets” were worth a bucket of warm spit on a hot day in the desert. Remember, he proposed universal healthcare only after it became apparent he was going to be run out of town on a rail and was desperately trying to salvage his presidential legacy.

If Nixon taught Bush and Reagan anything, it was to always be a nice guy in public, which gives you the freedom to be a total douche in private.

 
 

Most of the time I think that’s bullshit, especially since a comprehensive health care plan would guarantee Democratic dominance for the next eleventy quadrillion years, but maybe the lure of lobbyist money is stronger…

The flaw in the logic, however, becomes apparent when you think about the fact that they would effectively freeze out the Republicans, making the Democrats the only game in town, thus guaranteeing that lobby money for eternity.

 
 

It’s like we elected Jim Zorn.

Actually, I think electing John Zorn would be pretty cool.

 
 

If you say so – all I know about Nixon came from history books. But whether or not he was pro-UHC, he was part of the short interlude (1952-1980) in which the Republican Party was dominated by a moderate wing that was Keynesian and accepted the New Deal, like Eisenhower and Rockefeller.

 
 

Indeed, Chris, the liberal Republicans like Javits and Weicker were the ones who passed the Civil Rights Act, among other Democratic proposals.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

The flaw in the logic, however, becomes apparent when you think about the fact that they would effectively freeze out the Republicans, making the Democrats the only game in town, thus guaranteeing that lobby money for eternity.

This is true.

There was also some discussion about how Rahm essentially negotiated away health care reform with the industry in exchange for funding for the elections in 2010. But I also don’t believe that Rahm is some sort of fucking Rovian Sith Lord ballet dancer, so I take that shit with a grain of salt.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

File under: OMFG these people are tools.

I am very sorry I missed this before it was blocked.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Or after. Whatever. Ugh.

 
 

“Most of the time I think that’s bullshit, especially since a comprehensive health care plan would guarantee Democratic dominance for the next eleventy quadrillion years, but maybe the lure of lobbyist money is stronger…”

“The flaw in the logic, however, becomes apparent when you think about the fact that they would effectively freeze out the Republicans, making the Democrats the only game in town, thus guaranteeing that lobby money for eternity.”

But they’ll be well taken care of by their corporate sugar daddies in either case, Actor. If viewed in that light, the Democratic Party “leaders” have nothing to lose by sabotaging their own base. We really have gotten to the point where booting a politician out of office isn’t such a terrible prospect, and certainly doesn’t act as a deterrent towards good behavior. Government these days is a comfortable racket, in which our beloved politicos make connections, network, and set up what’s coming up for them down the road, whether it’s high paying gigs in right wing think tanks, serving on the boards of corporations, or getting to preen and show off on the talking head gasbag shows as “experts”. The latter is paticularly attractive for those with big egos…and that describes just about every political animal in Washington of the past 30 years.

As for Obama, I think he wants to project a governing style of being ‘above it all’…which is why he’s coming across as such a Goddamn weakling right now.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Actually, I was right the first time. Am I allowed to say “FYWP” when it’s just my own stupidity?

Also, well-done, Balloon Juicers. Well done. Also.

 
 

I am very sorry I missed this before it was blocked.

Nah, still works…

 
 

John D,

Good points. It almost seems as if politicians have decided to play brinksmanship with the electorate, almost daring us to revolt.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Nah, still works…

Awesome. But why did I follow that link??? Now I’m going to get fired.

It almost seems as if politicians have decided to play brinksmanship with the electorate, almost daring us to revolt.

I think that most of them are so arrogant and short-sighted that they can’t even conceive of that happening.

 
 

Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God,” who by the way, if I remember my Sunday schooling, was politely ASKED by an angel if she’d like to carry the child and had every chance to say “no.”

God: pro-choice. Plus, even by that time effective abortifacient herbs, preparations, and methods had been known and used for millennia.

 
 

This may be my favorite:

http://gop.am/LhLP

But they took Michael Steele off. Oh wait, maybe that’s him IN the picture, which explains why he’s not narrating.

 
 

“It almost seems as if politicians have decided to play brinksmanship with the electorate, almost daring us to revolt.”

Well…It’s important to remember that most of them are as firmly encased in their own bubbles from reality as Georgie Boy Bush was (and probably still is). Maybe not to the utterly ruthless extent we saw with Junior, but still in the same general ballpark. These people live in their gated communities, behind their bodyguards and bags of money, and very likely think – if it occurs to them to think about it at all – that they’re untouchable. They’re all millionaires at the very least (or are hoping to be) and they have very little real contact with ordinary people.

Or what TruclulentandUnreliable said.

 
 

What is GOP.AM?

In a nutshell, GOP.AM is an online tool for converting really long website addresses into short ones so that you can share them with your friends via Twitter, IRC, Email, Campfire, etc.

They paid a consulting firm for this shit.

 
 

They paid a consulting firm for this shit.

Did you check out who owns the domain, tho?

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

They paid a consulting firm for this shit.

Jesus, it looks like I designed the website. No wonder this was such a spectacular FAIL.

 
 

Another to actor212,

“Good points. It almost seems as if politicians have decided to play brinksmanship with the electorate, almost daring us to revolt.”

The surreal thing is that the only people who seem even close to a revolt are a bizzarre coalition of conservative extremists and clueless moderates known as the teabaggers. The people most pissed off at a crisis caused by thirty years of deregulation are now clamoring to solve it with more dereguation.

It gets even more surreal when you consider the founders and backers of the movement;

http://washingtonindependent.com/62318/tea-party-patrons-point-new-recruits-toward-2010

The teabaggers are screaming bloody murder at Bush, McCain and the GOP while simultaneously embracing the man who funded them for all these years, and not noticing that what Koch and the others are selling them is the exact same package Bush ran on all these years.

In the words of my favorite conservative, the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

 
 

I’d like to see a member of the House (and the Senate–hello Bernie!) propose legislation that would strip the House and Senate members (and their staffs) of all health care coverage until some sort of meaningful package was made available to the rest of us. And if nothing else, make the fuckers vote against it while laying out all of its delicious details.

 
 

In the words of my favorite conservative, the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Funny you should mention that

 
 

http://gop.am/0B9y

Oh boy.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Oh boy.

But the geniuses at RedState think it’s rilly, rilly awesome!

 
 

Their tagline: “Making URLs … Conservative.” Because even something as innocuous as a freaking web address needs to be conformed to their idea of political acceptability.

 
 

Nice site. I’ll try and find a link to another story I read some time ago about how well-informed (not educated, just informed) Americans were by their news. Short version; the more conservative you are, the more likely you are to have basic misconceptions about the Iraq war (i.e. “Saddam had weapons of mass destructions” or “Saddam had ties to al-Qaeda,” something copiously disproven since and that even Bush doesn’t claim anymore).

If you’re a conservative, the more you watch the news, the more likely you are to be misinformed about the Iraq war.

If you’re a liberal, the more you watch the news, the more likely you are to be informed about the war.

They also compared how popular all the big television stations are, and how well-informed their viewers are. Fox News came out on top in terms of both popularity and number of doofus viewers. NPR, if I recall, was at the bottom on both counts.

 
 

Because even something as innocuous as a freaking web address needs to be conformed to their idea of political acceptability broken by means of gross incompetence.

A slight tweak.

 
 

And DKW’s mom

Watch yourself Looch, them’s fightin’ words.

 
 

Also from TPM, it seems like teh Dems are still pushing a version of with us on everything but the war.

 
 

Watch yourself Looch, them’s fightin’ words.

I’d be sensitive, too, about my Mom.

 
 

I’d be sensitive, too, about my Mom.

Well, I have something to say about your Mom.
.
.
.
She’s a very classy lady.

 
 

Dems are still pushing a version of with us on everything but the war.

War, healthcare reform…same thing, right?

And Lieberman would never endorse take a position one day then completely contradict himself when it comes to vote-countin’, right?

 
 

It’s a collosal mandate, I tell you!

 
 

It’s a collosal mandate, I tell you!

GOP.AM will shrink that to a more conservative size.

 
 

I think “dildooptional” could work for many of the GOP approved sites.

 
 

Watch yourself Looch, them’s fightin’ words.

You know who else likes to fight?

Your mom.

 
 

This administration needs to give Lieberman and the banksters a good talking-to in the same way Delbert Grady’s ghost in Kubrick’s The Shining tells Nicholson he gave his family a “good talking-to.”

 
 

“Political Media’s Ward told Wired.com he saw the pranks coming a mile away (updated). “Believe me, we were well aware that this was going to happen,” he said. “We’ve been on the internet doing business for every aspect of it since 1996. I was well aware exactly what was going to happen.”

And the think it still works the same way now.

 
 

We’ve been on the internet doing business for every aspect of it since 1996.

And are therefore aware of all Internet traditions.

 
 

Speaking of American politics, have you seen this: http://www.maolovesyou.com. Just another example of how cowardly this former super power has become.

 
 

Yes, a fitting response given they’re talking about Shorters.

 
 

Meet the President, same as the old President!

Let’s see what Obama has given us so far–a stimulus that was way too small, a wave of foreclosures without lifting a finger to help, the appointment of Goldmann Sachs toadies and Rethugs to the Treasury, crappy health car bill “reform” and escalation of the oppression in Afghanistan.

Gee, I’m sure glad I voted for him!

 
 

If Nixon taught Bush and Reagan anything, it was to always be a nice guy in public, which gives you the freedom to be a total douche in private.

I’m not sure I totally agree with that but Nixon certainly taught everyone how to call people douchebags. It was one of his favorites, as I recall.

 
 

Gee, I’m sure glad I voted for him!

It’s a sad day when I’m Poed between trolls and actual liberals.

 
 

a wave of foreclosures without lifting a finger to help

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, don’t look now, but foreclosures are far below where they should be.

Little noticed in the bailout package was a demand by Obama that banks find some way to stem foreclosures. The way they settled on was, if you can afford to pay the interest only on your mortgage, they would not begin foreclosure procedures against you.

Of course, even less noticed was that you had to actually ASK the bank to extend this courtesy…

 
 

I’m not sure I totally agree with that

I’d put pretty good money down that, if Nixon hadn’t been so nakedly aggressive in pursuing and harassing people he genuinely hated, he would not have been impeached.

Most people think the lesson of Watergate was the cover up is usually worse than the crime and that’s partly true, but the bigger lesson was, “don’t be a dick, Nixon.”

 
 

As long as he has his Goldman Sachs buddies with their hand in the till, he’s either a wimp or complicit in the robbing of this country.

And I notice you didn’t talk about Afghanistan. Or the crappy health care bill (appointing Lieberman Health Car Czar! CHANGE!) or Gitmo II (aka Baghram).

 
 

If you were too stoopid to hear him say he was going to INCREASE troops in Afghanistan while he was running, then I pity you, and yes, you should not have voted for him.

As for the rest, the game’s not over yet and maybe, just, you know, you should wait a bit.

 
 

Oh, and by the way, don’t buy this line of B.S. that it was just Lieberman. Lieberman was the fall guy to give cover for the other Corpradems to cave in. In reality they were most likely way below 60, possibly not even to 50, so Lieberman is the fall guy.

It’s Corpradem rope-a-dope, and we’re the dopes.

 
 

If you were too stoopid to hear him say he was going to INCREASE troops in Afghanistan while he was running,

As Glenn Greenwald pointed out, George W. Bush ran on privatizing Social Security, continuing the war in Iraq, and extending his tax cuts. Just because he promised to do it in his campaign doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be outraged about it when he carries it out.

 
 

He also campaigned on a robust public option and ending don’t ask don’t tell, but he had no problem selling the left out on those two promises.

Yet, he couldn’t bring himself to sell out the military-industrial complex by ending the war. See a pattern here?

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

Just because he promised to do it in his campaign doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be outraged about it when he carries it out.

Then why did you say, “Gee, I’m sure glad I voted for him!”? You’re acting as if you’re surprised by this turn of events.

 
 

How dare this new-nym troll interrupt our Obama suckling, in the thread of this post which is calling Obama out for … oh, wait.

 
 

TaU, I voted for him because I thought he MIGHT sell-out his right wing and not his left-wing in the policies. I sure was wrong, I admit it.

At this point he’s on track to be another corporatist like Clinton. This country doesn’t need another Clinton.

 
 

you know who else works the same way now?

Hitler’s mom.

It’s possible I don’t understand this yet.

 
 

ok ok ok … I think we can all get behind the idea of 41 republican senators (I’m looking at you, Joe) covered in alpo vs. 1000 starving lap dogs. I’m sure that is symbolic of something, as well as good entertainment. Also.

 
 

Just because he promised to do it in his campaign doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be outraged about it when he carries it out.

But you should be kicking yourself for voting for someone who did exactly what he said he would that you find so anathemic.

 
 

A Corpradem, a Corpradem, dem, dem.

Eek-A-Mouse warned us, but did we listen? No.

 
 

This country doesn’t need another Clinton.

Yea. Sure do miss that peace and prosperity. Only the greatest president in American history…but hey, what do I know? I’ve only lived thru eleven of them…

 
 

Clinton left us with an Enron economy primed for implosion, and did absolutely nothing about health care. He also cut capital gains taxes for the ownership class and repealed Glass-Steegal.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

This country doesn’t need another Clinton.

We don’t, but that’s not what we voted for and it’s better than the alternative.

Which is not to say that I’m an Obama sycophant or that I don’t have problems with him. But the “Obama is the same as Bush and I am so cool and purer than thou” meme is getting fucking old.

 
 

Not to mention his bombing of an antibiotics factor in Sudan and his illegal war against Serbia.

 
 

DKC,

You’re a couple of days late.

The whine tasting is here.

 
 

TruculentandUnreliable, if you vote for him again in 2012 you’re just sending this message: keep on doing the same thing, corpradems! We loves us some Goldman Sachs!

 
 

And if you DON’T vote for him, all you’re sending is the message: “Yes, sarah palin! We lurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrve us some tax cuts that only benefit Goldman Sachs!”

Idjit.

 
 

Fake purity troll is fake and boring.

 
 

Obama could have gone down fighting on this. I’d rather have him go down to defeat on healthcare, as a FIGHTER, than see him cave in. People like and respect fighters. Why didn’t he do it? Is he that much of a wimp?

Or maybe, just MAYBE we were fooled and Obama is doing the bidding of his corporate masters. Yeah, that’s way more likely.

 
 

Ah yes, Sarah Palin, the Emmanuel Goldstein the corpradems use to keep the proles in line.

 
 

Fake purity troll is fake and boring.

Ah, but fake parody or fake right wing poseur?

 
 

fake parody or fake right wing poseur

Toss ’em both into the JanusNode blender, says I.

 
 

Obama could have gone down fighting on this. I’d rather have him go down to defeat on healthcare, as a FIGHTER, than see him cave in. People like and respect fighters. Why didn’t he do it? Is he that much of a wimp?

Or maybe, just MAYBE we were fooled and Obama is doing the bidding of his corporate masters. Yeah, that’s way more likely.

Hey dishonest hippy! You myopic maniacal sad excuse for a human-insects, I hope that your rodents will render insane your belief systems!

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

TruculentandUnreliable, if you vote for him again in 2012 you’re just sending this message: keep on doing the same thing, corpradems!

I love how purity trolls seem to think that if we just vote third party, somehow things will just miraculously change.

Look, it’s going to take years and a huge movement to establish a legitimate third party. Voting third party in the meantime ensures that corporatist, batshit, theocratic warmongers will get into power and probably destroy the planet before we even have a chance to build a third party.

 
 

Better another Clinton than another George W Bush, or another Ronald Reagan.

As I recall, those were our choices.

Your disappointment is your own problem. Like otheres hereabpouts, I had a pretty good idea who Obama was when he ran, and so far he has pretty much been what I thought he was gonna be.

of course, if y’all had voted for me, I would have totally given you all ponies and free branes. But I fear DKC would still have been disappointed. because although I would have ordered all military in Iraq and Afghanistan home on January 21, they still wouldn’t be home, because there’s this thing called reality that refuses to recognize my Official Harry Potter Magic Wand.

Sheesh. I swear, can we accelerate Substance’s Janus Wingnut? Concern trolls are so tiresome.

 
 

this disgrace of a bill is going to get ping-ponged from the Senate to House to Obama. Because Obama wants another Christmas present. Apparently the nobel peace prize isn’t enough.

The bill is NOT constitutional. Anybody voting for it violates their oath of office.

Obama is Tiger Woods, you progressive fringe folks are Elin Nordgren.

 
 

And voting Democrat ensures that we get corporatist, batshit, theocratic warmongers dressed up in Hope ‘N Change.

 
 

and repealed Glass-Steegal.

really? Does that mean that Glass-Steagal is still in effect?

Cuz that is some NINJA governing, there…

 
 

fake right wing poseur?

that.

it gets pretty damn easy to spot ’em at this point. They’re not very creative.

 
 

Look, it’s going to take years and a huge movement to establish a legitimate third party.

It ain’t gonna happen. Google “Duverger’s law”. There are no third parties. There are only parties that take over one or the other spot which just presents the same problem: chasing corporate contributions.

 
 

Toss ‘em both into the JanusNode blender, says I.

SHIT!

I just added the industrial blender to the Wingnut Processor!! DAMMIT, laym, who is your industrial spy? I will eat their branes!!

 
 

can we accelerate Substance’s Janus Wingnut?

Hey, maybe this is the beta test version?

 
 

I love how purity trolls seem to think that if we just vote third party, somehow things will just miraculously change.

well, Miss T, if you recognize them as undercover RW trollnauts, you can see that they don’t care so much about they, all they want is to depress Democratic votes.

So stay home or vote Nader Purity Party, it’s all good for them. They get Sarah Tote Bags!

 
 

Voting third party in the meantime ensures that corporatist, batshit, theocratic warmongers will get into power and probably destroy the planet before we even have a chance to build a third party.

Mission Accomplished.

I don’t know, guys. Obama is fucking up big time on secrecy, indefinite detention, Blackwater Xe, banking regulations, health care reform, transparency, The Graveyard of Empires Afghanistan, and ad gay rights (Did I leave anything out?). Reflexively defending him because he is the lesser of two evils may be pragmatic, but does nothing but further the status quo. Shouting down people who are willing to look at it other ways does not seem to be the short route to meaningful reform or progress…

 
 

Hey, maybe this is the beta test version?

nah, I think at this point he has the name plugged into Janus Node Name Generator, so it’s more entertaining.

Plus, seeing his test runs over at House O Automation, it doesn’t respond to other commenters. Yet.

 
 

not sure what “and ad gay rights” are, but I’m sure he’s fucking that up, too…

The point is that it is our ‘Patriotic duty’ to hold his feet to the fire because he is our guy.

 
 

T4T, I think we can berate the purity trolls while also agreeing that we have to find ways to force the Overton window to the left.

Unfortunately, Overton seems to not respond to comments on a snarky comedy blog. Maybe if Tintin did more toilet P-Shops….

 
 

Obama’s gonna lose big to Sarah Palin. You all need to realize that your boy Obama sold you down the river. He has no loyalty except to the people who built him up. The far-left elites who want to take your money.

Americans who oppose big government will vote Republican and crush the Dems in 2010 and crush them again in 2012. The end game is to make the Democrat Party the second party of politics.

All you big Government socialists can have the remains of the Democrat party.

 
 

And I can’t believe you guys buy this “60 votes” line of B.S. Again Lieberman is just the fall guy, the Democratic caucus doesn’t want to piss off their corporate masters.

 
 

It seems that what Obama’s game is to run as if he was going to move it to the left, and then once he got in office he seems intent upon cementing it in it’s right-of-center place.

 
 

Reflexively defending him because he is the lesser of two evils may be pragmatic, but does nothing but further the status quo.

No one’s doing that, T4. What we’re doing is taking someone who’s about as clever a troll as Troofie and giving him whatfor.

Scroll back four or five threads. We aired a lot of laundry back there about this just two days ago.

You can’t blame Obama. He has to work with Congress and despite what we may all have hoped or wished for, we are still in the minority as liberals and we have to deal with that reality.

 
TruculentandUnreliable
 

It ain’t gonna happen. Google “Duverger’s law”. There are no third parties.

Maybe not, but don’t you think that if we at least had a strong, organized left-wing presence it would help? The Republicans are freaking the fuck out over the teabaggers and attempting to bring them back into the fold. They’re pulling further and further to the right–is there any reason to believe this couldn’t work on the left?

well, Miss T, if you recognize them as undercover RW trollnauts, you can see that they don’t care so much about they, all they want is to depress Democratic votes.

This is true…I guess I was speaking about holier-than-thou lefties in general.

 
 

“It’s not Obama! He really loves us! Really! He WANTS to help us, but those meanie Republicans are stopping him! Yeah yeah he appointed Goldman Sachs to run the Treasury and is increasing our bombing of brown people, but it’s true!”–Shorter Actor212

 
 

Do tell, Actor, if Obama is really one of us, why did he appoint Goldman Sachs chronies and Rethugs to the Treasury?

 
 

if Obama is really one of us

He’s not, moron. What the fuck you think we’ve be saying for the past two dozen posts????

 
 

Maybe not, but don’t you think that if we at least had a strong, organized left-wing presence it would help?

So might herding cats, which would be easier.

Our problem is the one the Republicans have not had. Yet.

Keeping lefties in line is a little like, I dunno, nailing jello to the wall. If you click the link I posted to t4toby, you’ll see the glimmers of an outline of what to do.

 
 

those meanie Republicans are stopping him!

Boy, are YOU barking up the wrong tree, if you think that’s what I said.

But perhaps you can’t read. English is your first language, I’m presuming.

 
 

“Maybe not, but don’t you think that if we at least had a strong, organized left-wing presence it would help? The Republicans are freaking the fuck out over the teabaggers and attempting to bring them back into the fold. They’re pulling further and further to the right–is there any reason to believe this couldn’t work on the left?”

Yeah, there is – the American electorate is more receptive to right-wing psychopathy than left-wing psychopathy. Actually, the electorate is more receptive to right-wing psychopathy than it is to reasonable ideas that work in every country where they’ve been applied, but smell a little too pink for the electorate’s precious sensitivities. It’s been that way since Reagan at least. If the two parties go to their extremes, their extreme will win – not saying it’s a good thing, but it’s true.

For Obama himself, I’ll wait longer before I judge. The man ran on a moderate platform, and anyone who voted for him on the notion that he was going to pull out of Afghanistan has only their own defective ears and eyes to blame. Not that I approve of his being a moderate, mind, at least not on all counts, but at least he was up front about it from the start.

 
 

I think a large part of the problem many Obama supporters had, at least the really early ones, was that he was the Not-Hillary, so automatically was assumed to be more leftish than Hillary (particularly since he was anti-war…when he had nothing on the line).

 
 

if Obama is really one of us, why did he appoint Goldman Sachs chronies and Rethugs to the Treasury?

LOL&LOL! Failing to accept reality is all you can hope for, you fucking failure!

 
 

Well, he was anti-Iraq war, but anti-Afghan war, from the beginning, not anti-war in general (a position that mirrors my own, which I realize puts me in the minority on the left).

On economics – I had to write about health care for a class in the summer of 2007 and I remember looking up the positions of leading Democratic and Republican candidates and noticing that Obama’s plan was pretty vague and centrist. The information was all out there, but I think the guy’s image drowned a lot of it out.

 
 

Sorry – anti-Iraq war, but PRO-Afghan war, from the beginning.

 
 

he was anti-Iraq war

Wrong.

As senator, he voted for every single funding bill Bush proposed.

 
 

God’s Fire always forgets the recipe, dead pet story, or “they came for” we expect from quality robo-Hitlering.

 
 

I stand corrected. Even more centrist/moderate/close-to-the-right than I thought, then.

Although, it’s possible that he, like many, believed that launching the war was wrong but that “you break it you bought it,” and that now that we’d invaded the country we owed it to them to stay behind and rebuild. That’s just me speculating, nothing to back it up (and I’d need to delve more into the bills and anything he might have said at the time).

On a related note, at the ground level there were in fact several cases of peaceniks, left-wing activists, Arab activists and other opponents of the war going to Iraq and cooperating with the U.S. military after the 2006 election – e.g, when the Pentagon was under new management and now willing to listen to people outside the Rumsfeld cabal. That’s also when the “surge” and just about everything that helped stabilize the situation from the bloodbath it was at the time started happening. Amazing what’ll happen when we hold our leaders accountable.

 
 

Clinton didn’t let the left down. The left let clinton down. When he pushed for allowing Gays in the military in his first days, and the crazies came out of the woodwork to attack him, there were no leftist organizations going up to bat for him. Hell, there were gay groups claiming he was moving too fast.

Then don’t get me started on healthcare. There were no organizations going up against the Harry and Louise ads. The best rebuttal to them came from the Clintons at the gridiron dinner, with Hillary and Bill making a beautiful mockery of those ads. But there wasn’t Jack Shit from the left in terms of support. Just a lot of bitching about each and every pet program each little group wanted to see enacted that wasn’t included just how they wanted it.

The left said “Well we got you elected, now give us our idealistic dreams no matter how they conflict with each other while we sit on our thumbs and spin”. Clinton lost in the house in 1994 while the left had their collective dicks in their hands, and from that point on moved to the center where at least he could get some support for minor reform and bludgeon every republican who came after him from that point on.

Obama is no Clinton. Clinton was a fighter, and for the most part won good things even where he had to retreat. Repealing Glass Steegal sucked, but it would not have sucked nearly so bad without Bush coming to make sure there was no oversight at all and allowing the super-leveraging to occur for the biggest banks.

Obama is by far the lesser of two evils. He has and will do a lot of good along the way. But we are not likely to get a “good” choice again without getting more left wing dems through the primaries of lower level positions, and then through the presidential primaries. That takes defeating the media AND the corperatists AND general left-wing laziness.

 
 

Chris, the cynic in me believes he had planned to run for President at some point before he thought we could be out of Iraq (his anti-funding votes would then be moot). so he figured he had to vote for the money.

But that’s the same modality of appeasement to the moderate-right of this nation that we’re currently discussing. Even then, it should not have come as a surprise.

Your point about the turning point of this war is a good one, but it also came as it became clear that the Bush administration had zero plan for getting us the hell out. While the anti-war forces had some influence, history will have to judge whether it was the anti-war movement or the irrational war planning that had the greatest effect.

 
 

I’m pretty sure it was the irrational war planning. The anti-war movement just happened to have a lot of people whose expertise the military needed, once they were finally free to ask for it.

In general, I also think the American public became addicted to short, easy, happy victories like Gulf War I, with the opportunity for chest-thumping, flag-waving and apple-pie eating that they provide. They supported Gulf War II expecting the same thing, and when it turned out to be more complicated than that, they decided they didn’t like it anymore. The anti-war movement didn’t have a lot to do with that either.

 
 

I read two very interesting things today. First, an article in the New
Yorker (Dec. 14) by Atul Gawande about some of the things that are actually in the Senate bill. Stuff you never hear about.

Second, a satire in Salon.com by Michael Lind titled Dear Nobodies, or something like that (sorry I don’t know how to do the link thingy). A letter from a congressman to his constituents. Nails it.

 
 

“robo-hitlering” is the best thing to come out of this thread.

golf clap, my friend. Bathtub gin ?(can’t afford that fancy stuff like actor)

 
 

I was wondering the same thing about Baucus when every senator on his committee was shitting on his bipartisan work.

And when the members of the finance committee were shut out in favor of Baucus’s handpicked Gang of Six.

They didn’t feel bad about being castrated and looking like chumps? I get corruption and incompetence, but how can politicians be okay with that?

 
 

And said law will come out of conference, not out of the Senate.

How fucking dense are you? The House bill is going to get hollowed out and filled in with the Senate bill. I fucking guarantee you. “Bookmark it” and such as. Also.

 
 

(comments are closed)