All those black helicopters absorb solar energy during the day, and radiate the heat throughout the night, you know!

Last link N. G.

(1) Cosmic rays which when entering the atmosphere cause more water vapor to form (clouds); more clouds means more rain & more cooling.

Wow. This shows an actual understanding that the earth’s atmosphere is basically a closed system, so one wonders why he’s having such a hard time wrapping his pea-brain around the concept of “adding heat to a closed system increases the heat in the system, especially if its escape route is cut off”?

Again with “the state-run media” shtick. Stale, very stale. One wonders how these people would react if they lived somewhere that actually did have a “state-run media.” Like this place, for instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda

I’m pretty gosh-dang sure that it’s pretty cold up in Anchorage right now, so put that in your bongs and smoke it, hippies.

So is everyone flying to Copenhagen in single occupant Hummer jets? I question these calculations.

Sunspots and solar wind.

Got it!
~

sometimes you just gotta say, “man that is some dumb shit”.

this is one of those times.

Well, you produce lots of CO2 equivalent with every activity, warm showers, business, heating, travel, cooking.

There’s how many delegates which are used to or must show a conspicuous amount of consumption and security. Of course it’ll create more CO2 than a country in which no one uses oil or coal for heat and has less cars than the city of Copenhagen.

What’s left out is that these delegates would be producing these CO2 emissions at home, too, and there would be a different conference producing these emissions as the economy wouldn’t just stop.

Again with “the state-run media” shtick.

You’ve already been mind-controlled to the point that you’ve forgotten last year when the economy almost disappeared, & w/ all the major media companies going broke because they’d over-estimated the intelligence of the American people, the Bush Admin. bailed them all out, in exchange for an ownership stake that would be given immediately to Editor-in-Chief Obama, who’s been busily writing op-eds under various pseudonyms (Hugh G. Rection, I. P. Frehley, Ben Dover) that have already brought our nation to its knees1!!

Also: NWO, David Rockefeller, CFR: Q. E. D.!

I liked the bit about cosmic rays.

I wonder how much methane your average wingnut convergence- say, CPAC- gives off as opposed to any other random gathering of cattle.

Keep buying the B.S. Global Warming is really all about transferring wealth from the West to Asia. It’s what the international elite uses to accomplish this goal on the left, on the right they use “free trade” destroying American industries while building up Chinese and Japanese ones.

You can bet India and China won’t be forced to make real cuts, but America will, thus bringing about a “global equality” of wealth the international elite has always wanted. We’ll all have the standard of living of a Chinese peseant.

Very poor journalism. You need to tighten up your facts. You also could add a sarcasm font because without that, you appear childish.

Ted, have you met “Homeless Guy with Tinfoil hat and Invisible Dog” yet? You two have a lot in common…

Tiger
PENIS !!!!

New troll on campus?

Me? No, you have a lot in common with him since you believe in that silly, hairshirt Religion of Global Warming.

Save us Mother Earth! We will buy

Me? No, you have a lot in common with him since you believe in that silly, hairshirt Religion of Global Warming.

Save us Mother Earth! We will buy carbon credits to offset our sins!

New troll?

Or Freeps who are aware they’ve been linked.

Why (silly question, of course) is it in the interest of the international elite to reduce everyone to the Chinese-peasant living standard? Why are they shipping all the money to China?

What’s left out is that these delegates would be producing these CO2 emissions at home, too, and there would be a different conference producing these emissions as the economy wouldn’t just stop.

Well, we’re talking about the same people who claim that the problematic CO2 emissions result from vulcanism, while ignoring that anthropogenic CO2 production stacks on top of the natural volcanic emissions.

Hell, we’re talking about people who idealized a man who said, “Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do.”

Although I know that arguing with a Freeper is the worst waste of time and oxygen aside from being a Freeper, I’m an EE major currently taking Electromagnetics and can’t let someone rant about magnetic flux when they have no idea what they’re talking about.

We’re coming out of a Solar Minimum. An extremely deep one. The sun’s magnetic field (and therefore flux) are increasing. I won’t bother wondering why Mr. Look-at-me-use-big-words thinks that the sharp decrease of solar flares since 2001 caused warming to increase.

We’ll all have the standard of living of a Chinese peseant.

I imagine Ted has the standard of living of a Chinese pissant.

Actually, Ted, we’d all be a lot better off if we had a little more respect for the planet we live on, which is actually what “created” us, & spent a little less time sucking up to some sky fairy who’s going to save us all w/ “the rapture.”

Why (silly question, of course) is it in the interest of the international elite to reduce everyone to the Chinese-peasant living standard?

Because in China they can pay their little peons slave wages and dump their shoddy products (lead paint and all) back in the United States, with the added benefit of Union busting. Meanwhile, our international overlords grow fat on profits.

A sarcasm font? Yeah, that’d be real useful.

Oh, and while they’re shipping all the jobs that can be shipped off to China and India, those that can’t be outsourced they just use illegal immigrants for (again paying them salve wages and not having to deal with those pesky Unions).

And in China the government can execute the masters of the universe and sell their organs.

So, Ted, when do we start slaughtering our oppressive international overlords? (Is an “international overlord” like a “cosmopolitan Jew?”) Because I don’t see any other way out.

I’m glad Ted is so pro-Labor.

(1) Cosmic rays which when entering the atmosphere cause more water vapor

And THIS!

And without comparatively wealthy workers in Western countries, the employers of those starving Chinese workers will make huge profits selling consumer goods to . . . whom, exactly?

I think we should slaughther all the liberals and Muslims, then freedom would return.

Liberals: read Atlas Shrugged, until then, SHUT UP

Fake Paul Muad’Dib gets bonus marks for misspelling “slaughter”.

Liberals: read Atlas Shrugged, because SHUT UP, that’s why

F.T.F.Y.

M. Bouffant, please, they’re not Jews. They’re a very “multicultural” group, who really don’t care about the middle class or their own nations, even. An American corporate elite has more in common with a Chiense corporate elite than he does witlh an American autoworker.

I used to work for Chrysler in their Delaware plant. Chrysler was the most profitable automaker in the world in 1998–then the elites sold us out to Mercedes-Benz, who gutted Chrysler and stole American technology and methods to make better Mercedes while giving nothing to Chrysler in return.

Protectionists (on the “Left” and “Right”) predicted this would happen, and were laughed at at the time by asswipes like Tom Friedman.

Mercedes, if you remember, prefers to build their auto plants down in shithole dixie where they can pay temp workers $7/hour with no benefits.

again paying them salve wages

Ted’s job as a proofreader was outsourced to Malaysia.

Like you’ve never made a typo before, BBBB? Cheap shot.

It’s simple. When DFHs who think global warming is caused by human activity use resources, it produces thick, choking clouds of Carbon Monoxide. When God-fearing, sun-spot watchers use resources, God whips up more fresh, clean Oxygen.

Liberals: read Atlas Shrugged, until then, SHUT UP

I read it, sunshine.

It’s full of shit, much like yourself, if I may point out.

Chrysler
Tiger
Penis
Profit!!!

I still say the real solution to global warming (as well as a great many other problems) is to cut the human population in half, across the board. Half as many of us here in the US and in every country. Hopefully through programs to encourage couples to have only one child. Either we’ll do it that way or it will be done for us.

again paying them salve wages

It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.

PU, I couldn’t get past the tenth page. After that sample of Rand, I’d rather slam a sliding glass door shut on my nuts than have to read the whole book.

I still say the real solution to global warming (as well as a great many other problems) is to cut the human population in half, across the board.

Excellent idea. When do I get to kill my one?

N_B, there’s a guy standing right behind you, asking the same question. Look, out.

Ted if environmentalism is a plot to fuck over american workers why do all the unions support it?

N_B, there’s a guy standing right behind you, asking the same question. Look, out.

But I’m so cute and cuddly! And pandas have proved that is a viable evolutionary path.

Excellent idea. When do I get to kill my one?

Dude, you should have converted to Islam since Islam demands that a boy spill another’s blood before the age of ten to prove their loyalty to Allah..

Anthony the rank and file don’t support it, only the leaders of the Unions do. And you know what? The Union “leaders” are a BIG problem. They’ve become too soft, they’ve been bought off, they don’t want to rock the boat anymore and so on. It’s like in animal farm, you can’t tell the difference between the pigs and humans anymore.

Dude, you should have converted to Islam

I’ll stick with metric, thanks. CGS all the way!

If the damn hippies hadn’t made such a big deal about the “hole” in the “ozone”, we wouldn’t have to worry about “global warming”.

Silly liberals with your “dangerous UV rays” scare tactics. I’m busting out the hair spray and the sun screen!

The plant I worked at built the Dodge Durango and Chrysler Aspen. Yeah yeah, big gas guzzling SUVs, but guess what? They fed the families of me and a lot of my fellow workers. After Chrysler went C7, they closed the plant for good citing bad PR from building too many “gas guzzlers”.

“LOL TED WHO NEEDS MORE SUVS? BUILD HYBRIDS!” Small cars and hybrids aren’t profitable, tree hugger. Chrysler breaks even or even loses money on small models, so they have to build big expensive cars to make a profit. Why? Because they’re Unionized. Toyota can sell their little ricers at a profit because they’re made by temp workers in Alabama. If you want a strong middle class in America, we need big cars.

They make hybrid trucks now…

Jennifer’s absolutely correct, virtually all of the planet’s problems would be solved if there were significantly fewer humanoids.

Hell, we could all live like middle-class Chinese peasants if there were only three or four billion of us.

Oh, and hybrids are’t that great for the environment. That Prius you bought to save the planet? It contains extremely toxic rare earth metals in it’s battery, mined from China. And when the car is crushed at the end of it’s life? The environmental damage from that used hybrid battery is going to be brutal.

If America is not smart enough to make building smaller cars cost less than building big cars, then— America isn’t really that stupid. Chrysler is though.

“They make hybrid trucks now…”

And GM and Ford loses money on every single one because they’re so damn expensive to make.

Jonah Goldberg defends “DEMOCRATS USED TO BE RACIST” attacks. But first, a Jonanism:

This has been discussed endlessly in the Corner and elsewhere. I’m on a deadline so I’m not going to wade too deeply into it. But a few quick points.

Writing a book on clichés are we?

Wiley, smaller cars sell for less money, period. This means less (or more often, zero or even a LOSS) profit for car companies with a unionized work force.

Toyota, Honda, and so make a profit because they pay Johnny Reb $7/hour to make their ricers.

If you want a strong middle class in America, we need big cars.

You know, Ted, I’m sympathetic to your overall argument, but we don’t need big cars for a strong middle class – we need good wages. Not just for union workers but for everyone else too.

Most of the profit margin in SUVs – at least for Ford & GM – was in the fact that they did no R & D or engineering to make them. They just took a truck chassis, plopped a station wagon on top, and managed to convince something like 1 out of every 3 drivers that suddenly, driving a station wagon was cool – so long as it was jacked up on a truck chassis. The fact that there are a lot of homes with 2 of these in the driveway, at a cost roughly equalling 1/2 of what was paid for the house, helps explain why a lot of people are swimming in debt.

Smaller cars can be built with good profit margins. I think the margin on the Prius is pretty good, as well as on the Mini. The issue for American automakers is, they have to invest on the front end to get to that point with a smaller car.

Writing a book on clichés are we?

He’s not so much writing it as running it up the flagpole to see if it sticks.

Jennifer, you know why the D3 had to jack up station wagons on stilts? Because CAFE standards made it impossible to build normal full-size cars/station wagons, but “light trucks” were exempt. So guess what? The Detroit Three made a lot of SUVs instead, and marketed them effectively. Of course since SUVs are body-on-frame instead of unibody, have 4WD, and have worse drag coefficents (I probably spelled that wrong, sue me ok?) they get WORSE fuel economy than an old school full size wagon does, even though they have the same or less room inside!

Classic example of government regulation to “save the planet” backfiring horribly. You should think of that before endorsing “cap-and-trade” which is sponsered by the same elites that gave us the dot-com bubble and subprime mortgages.

Fake, boring troll is fake and boring.

Also I can’t find any proof that the Tahoe hybrid is losing money especially considering it’s 50k. And also since cutting emissions would mean an overhaul of the US powergrid and the installation of new technologies that would translate to more jobs, which being government jobs couldn’t be filled out with Mexicans. And seriously why the fuck would every scientist in the world agree to a lie with the purpose of making everyone poor like the Chinese.

The bottom line is, we need JOBS in this country, not feel good environmental religions that China and India aren’t going to follow anyway.

He’s not so much writing it as running it up the flagpole to see if it sticks.

He’s throwing his two cents into the pot, the one which is as black as the kettle.

Ted – you assume that because plopping a station wagon body on a truck chassis made it cheaper and more profitable to skirt the CAFE standards that it was unpossible to meet and comply with the CAFE standards in other ways – an assumption not in evidence.

The problem is that parasite stock holders get the “profit.” Get them out of the formula.

Toyota, Honda, and so make a profit because they pay Johnny Reb $7/hour to make their ricers.

From a 2007 article:

“In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.

Missed it by that much.

“Also I can’t find any proof that the Tahoe hybrid is losing money especially considering it’s 50k. ”

You’re right, GM breaks even on them. Breaks even, despite a Cadillac-esque price. And there is proof, you just don’t follow the auto industry.

And, that took me two fucking minutes to find.

Way to swallow that Jap propaganda there, Looch. Notice how it said Toyota wouldn’t provide averages, but just gave some BS figures from it’s flagship plant in a good year with “profit sharing”.

But keep enabling the Union busters, chief.

Ted, the reason we don’t manufacture anything in the US anymore isn’t because corporations teamed up with liberals to invent global warming to pass CAFE standards to make it impossible to make cars in America. If the corporations wanted to pay people less they could just move their shit to China unilaterally.

He’s throwing his two cents into the pot, the one which is as black as the kettle.

He’s going to give us a piece of his mind.

Note: the double-entendre mixed metaphor is built into the concept of J Go having a “mind.”

Which is what they’re fucking doing with conservatives’ blessing

Also they pad their averages even at the flagship plant by not including temps (which make up the majority of the workforce at Jap factories in the US).

Yeah, did everyone notice how, as soon as the big three began to move production to the maquiladoras back in the 1980s, cutting their labor costs by 90% or more, how the cars became more affordable?

Yeah, me neither.

If the corporations wanted to pay people less they could just move their shit to China unilaterally.

Yup, and they’re going to do that soon thanks to “free trade”.

“THE WORLD IS FLAT! EVERYBODY WILL BENEFIT! “RE-TRAIN” AT TACO BELL, TED!”–Tom Friedman

the reason we don’t manufacture anything in the US

is because the corporations that bought the government through the combined fictions that (a) they are “persons” with rights and (b) money equals free speech figured out that the average goober is dumb enough to vote for the candidates who enable strip-mining our economy.

But they already have fucking free trade, why would they need to make up global warming?

When I was a union local prez (30 odd years ago), I realized that if we didn’t make wages high enough to buy the products we built, the whole thing (US economy) would probably collapse. Looks like I was right. Dammit.

Jennifer I did we did very well at Chrysler in the’ 80s (thank you, Iacoca and the minivan) and went gangbusters in the ’90s, things were better financially then at any time in my life. LOTS of overtime and bonuses from ’94 to ’98. Then, we were sold out to Mercedes in the name of “free trade” and internationalism.

“But they already have fucking free trade, why would they need to make up global warming?”

To give people on the “left” something to believe in and support.

But a few quick points.

Are they CENTRAL?

p.s. STOP FEEDING THE FUCKING TROLL.

~p.p.s. PENIS!~

Then, we were sold out to Mercedes in the name of “free trade” and internationalism.

Or, in the name of, you know … money. Also.

Why would global warming convince liberals that autofactories should all move to China.

Actually, I’m glad Ted is here, because he’s unintentionally highlighting what really happened to American automakers as well as just about everything else in this country: the investors got too greedy.

There was a time in business in this country where the primary reason for being in business was to produce good X or service Y; profit was secondary to that primary goal. Of course businesses must profit at least a little in order to remain in business, but it used to be accepted that certain types of businesses would return a lower profit than others, and this was accepted. But sometime in the past 30 years, that rationale started to change. The timber grower with a average annual profit of 4%, under pressure from investors for higher profits, would triple the harvest to yield 12%. Mergers and downsizing of staff maximized profit margins at the expense of the remaining workers in other businesses. These days, the primary reason for any sizable business is to produce profit for the investors. Not to produce the best good X or service Y, but to return the biggest profit to the guys holding the moneybags.

That’s yer problem, right there.

Boring troll is racist as well as dumb.

N__B, get your ass to Gowanus tomorrow night- same goes for any other NY metro area Sadlynaughts.

“Or, in the name of, you know … money. Also.”

Sure, but the government could have stopped them. You think the government would want to prevent one of the biggest employers in the country from falling into the hands of foreigners, but the Clinton administration stood there and did nothing, and sang the praises of “free trade”.

HURRAH FOR THE BLACKSHIRTS!

And this:

“DETROIT (AP) –Hourly wages for United Auto Workers laborers at General Motors Corp. factories actually are almost equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.

The difference is in benefits, with the unionized factories having far higher costs.

GM says its total hourly labor costs are now $69 including wages, pensions and health care for active workers, plus the pension and health care costs of more than 432,000 retirees and spouses. Toyota says its total costs are around $48. The Japanese automaker has far fewer retirees and its pension and health care benefits are not as rich as those paid to UAW workers.

The UAW has not been able to organize workers at a Toyota plant in this country; it does represent workers at one joint GM-Toyota plant in Fremont, Calif.

Look, I don’t begrudge union workers their pay or benefits. But the U.S. car makers have had their heads up their asses for decades. If the U.S. car companies can’t design a decent vehicle, they lose. The market, you know?

Global warming is very convincing. Do NOT attend a time share seminar with global warming, no matter how many nice watches it offers you.

N__B, get your ass to Gowanus tomorrow night

Are you going to be there? First two rounds on me…

Has anyone noticed that we’ve received another broadside from teh House that Dunkin’ Black built? Priorities, people: this petty, pointless squabbling with non-entities is getting tiresome.

“the U.S. car companies can’t design a decent vehicle”

YOU are the one with the head up your ass if you think there aren’t decent ehicles being made every day by Detroit. There’s no minivan better than the Chrysler Town and Country, no better mid-size sedan than the Chevy Malibu, no better ponycar than the Dodge Challenger, no better pickup than the Ford F-150.

But they can’t compete against Toyota with their temp workers. And it’s only going to get worse when vehicles start being outsourced to China.

the investors got too greedy

Oddly enough this largely coincided with the huge increase in using stock-based bonuses in executive compensation.

Personally, I’d love to see NAFTA repealed. But that doesn’t change my view on global warming, or dampen my enthusiasm for a booming electric car industry that I think Americans company are perfectly capable of pulling off with better leadership in their companies.

Why would global warming convince liberals that autofactories should all move to China.

The thing asshole doesn’t realize is that liberals never wanted U.S. manufacturers to subvert environmental and workplace safety standards in any way. His idea of “the elites on the left” is one gigantic strawman.

Since he’s a racist, I am dubbing the dancing badgers tanuki, just this once.

Ted the racist troll
Teabagged by a tanuki
Back to the Stone Age.

But you know better, don’t you, looch?

You’re a smart import buyer. You won’t put up with the crappy fuel economy of the Ford Focus, you buy a Toyota Tundra! You won’t put up with the interior quality of a Chrysler Town and Country, you drive a Hyundai Entourage! You won’t put up with the crappy performance of a Chevy Camaro, you drive a Scion tC! You think the American car companies are stupid for building so many SUVs, so you shop at the brand that makes the RAV4, Sequoia, FJ Cruiser, and 4Runner!

And the Toyota Corolla and the Honda Civic are the best subcompacts, Subaru makes the best wagons, etc. The Japanese manufacturers are doing something right.

Are you going to be there? First two rounds on me…

Never missed a one, bro… I’m an elder statesman of the group.

Heavens to Cokie: I just now clicked on the gauntlet at Eschaton, and it raises the stakes of intolerability to bona fide torture level.

<blockquoteAnd the Toyota Corolla and the Honda Civic are the best subcompacts

Neither of them are subcompacts, they”re compacts. Jesus, do some research. And they’re hardly the best in their segement–the Focus has more features and the Cobalt gets better fuel economy.

I assure you, the average Chinese or Mexican worker isn’t benefiting any more from free trade than the average American worker is. The data are pretty clear that free trade benefits the wealthy in participating countries while impoverishing everybody else. American, Mexican and Chinese elites have made out very well from trade liberalization but everyone else has been screwed over in the process.

“the U.S. car companies can’t design a decent vehicle”

Oh, they know how to design a decent vehicle.

Then the corporate bean counters get hold of it and start cutting corners. Pretty soon you’ve got a lot of cheap bits and pieces from the corporate parts bin that will be a mess of squeaks and rattles in 3 years.

I’m an elder statesman of the group.

The Secret Science Club? I was just reading the tribute to Asimov over at Pharyngula…

Major Kong, go down to your local Toyota dealership and sit inside a Carmy. Sit inside of the interior, feel all the buttons, the quality of the cloth in the seats, and so on. Then go to your Chevy dealership and sit in a new Malibu. You will come away much more impressed by the Malibu.

This myth of American inferiority is from the ’80s and it’s getting real old.

I drive an Audi.

Then go sit in a Buick LaCrosse or Chrysler 300c. They’re both better than your Audi, and made by American workers making a living wage.

Looks like the regs are embroiled in a debate with which I’m insufficiently familiar. I’m stoking the woodstove to the max — record cold in the PNW — and don’t have much motivation to read back thru several hundred comments. Rock on!

I’ve got some dancin’ badgers I’d like Ted to meet…

The Secret Science Club? I was just reading the tribute to Asimov over at Pharyngula…

To crib a line from the Hash House Harriers (f-in’ website under construction), “Drinkers with a science problem…”

Next week, there’ll be a special presentation by teh most eeeeevulllll man in the U.S.– James Hansen. If troll-boy could be dragged there against his will, he’d probably learn a thing or two.

I’ve had 300C’s as rentals. They don’t come close to the Audi’s I’ve owned.

My daughter drives a Malibu, and it’s not a bad car but it’s no Audi.

I really wanted to like the Lacrosse, but then I got up close to one and didn’t like the styling.

I like the latest generation of the CTS, but it’s going to be a few years before they come down to my price range on the used market.

Damn. I’m gonna go buy an American car right now. Who’s with me?

I drive an Audi.
Jesus Chrysler, however, drives a Dodge.

Major Kong, the rental 300s you had wasn’t a 300c. 300c has the V-8 engine better seats, better interior, and hasn’t been abused like a rental car has been (every heard the phrase “drive it like a rental”)? Rental cars are always stripper models.

Damn. I’m gonna go buy an American car right now. Who’s with me?

As soon as I get a license, I’ll be right behind you.

It’s well known that God drives a Plymouth, because he drove Adam and Eve from the Garden in a Fury.

FWIW, I drive a Ford. Mustang. When I first got it I would always say that I thought my Mazda was a better car, but the Mustang was prettier. But now that the Mustang has 140,000 miles on it, I can say that quality-wise it’s been better than the Mazda – I’ve had a lot fewer repairs needed. Of course the Mazda’s gas mileage was half again to twice as good, but the Mustang isn’t a guzzler.

“Drinkers with a science problem…”

Tune in to S, N! tomorrow. I’ll let you know which lapel I’ll be wearing a yellow carnation in and whether or not I could convince Mrs. __B (a person of the biologist persuasion) to come along.

HERE’S THE STORY SO FAR…

Japanese automakers, which control the US government, want more free trade so they make that happen. As a result Daimler AG buys out Chrysler and cuts wages in order to enrich it’s share holders which happens coinciding with a huge loss in profits then they sell it, and put out a fake story about how it was terribly mismanaged instead of a trick to rip off UAW. Meanwhile, they begin paying meteorologists to expound on a fake theory that an environmental catastrophe is occuring due to the increase in CO2, starting in the late 80s’ (before they made catalyst converters mandatory). The purpose of this is to get the president to reach an international agreement with China to stop it. This agreement will consist of America cutting all its emissions and China doing nothing. Which we will accept. We do this by making large cars and trucks illegal. The reason companies want this to happen is so that instead of making profit on the large cars they’re already making, they’ll lose profits on small cars and that will give them the justification to union bust. Meanwhile, union leaders have agreed to all of this. After union busting they’ll move to China and/or use workers in America but pay them subsistance wages. Which they will accept because the only blue collar jobs in all of America is making large cars. THE END

Jennifer, you drive the V6 coupe right?

I swear to God if you’re a fake troll making me do all this work, I’ll fucking snap.

I’ll be the

wait for it

Big Bad Bald Bastard
‘bibing beers at the bar.

Now, if only there were a vision expert whose work I could reference in the Q&A…

Is there a Doktor in the house?

As soon as I get a license, I’ll be right behind you.

Licenses are the Tiger Woods of neo-liberal fascism.

Now, if only there were a vision expert whose work I could reference in the Q&A…

GHWB was an expert on the “vision thing.”

I will match the mileage I get from my 2008 Chuck Taylors (all black, limousine-style) to any of your gas guzzlers.

Sorry Ted but I’m not trading my A8 in on a 300C.

I go to work in a tree, it literally has negative emissions.

An A8, huh? Impressive! I figured you had an A4.

If had known it was an A8 I would have recommended a Lincoln MKS with EcoBoost. You’d be thrilled with that. Front/or/all-wheel drive, yeah, but so is your Audi.

Anthony,
That was a brilliant effort.
I doff my Volvo to you.

I go to work in a tree, it literally has negative emissions.

I used to work with a man whose personality was so negative that when he walked into a room people said “Who left?”

I go to work in a tree, it literally has negative emissions.

D00d, hook me up with a pallet of Pecan Sandies!

I buy used. I recently traded my 2000 A6 on a 2004 A8. I certainly wouldn’t buy one new even if I could afford it.

You know, nobody has yet explained what keebling really is.

I used to work with a man whose personality was so negative that when he walked into a room people said “Who left?

AHA! THAT’S where I know you from. Errr, from where I know you? Whence? Wheretofore?

I deny all knowledge of elephant butts.

I buy used. I recently traded my 2000 A6 on a 2004 A8.

The only new car I ever bought (with the ex) was an Audi A4 wagon, five speed, with some sort of sport package. Good size, visibility and at about 3k rpm the turbo would kick in. Not a muscle car, but very quick when you needed it and Quatro was damn impressive accelerating around turns. The rear end would on the verge of sliding and –click– the power would hit those rear wheels and it was like it was on rails. But, expensive to repair.

Keebling is a tightly held trade secret among the elven kind. They could shit cookies for all we know.

If you want to talk expensive repairs, I used to own a Jaguar.

I couldn’t walk into the dealer without writing a check for $500.

I think I put the service manager’s kid through college with that car.

The commercials show it’s clearly magic. So the cookies are obviously the work of Satan

Keebling is a tightly held trade secret among the elven kind. They could shit cookies for all we know.

And I was just about to ask Anthony for some Fudge Stripes…

Looch, Audis are nice at first but yeah are very unreliable and expensive to repair. Same with Volkswagens. Horribly unreliable, but people don’t complain I guess because they money they save on the powertrain they spend on making the interior look $10,000 nicer than it should be for it’s class.

BUTTE
pronounced(Bee -yoot) is a conspicuous isolated hill with steep, often vertical sides and a small, relatively flat top….

Keebling is the Climate Change of Tiger Woods’ Globalization.
Also.

I never trusted elves.

a conspicuous isolated hill with steep, often vertical sides and a small, relatively flat top…

Yeah, I’ve seen butts like that. There are people who shouldn’t wear spandex.

My wife had a Jetta and we never had any trouble with that car.

The Audis I’ve owned have been fairly reliable, and my wife and I have had 4 between the two of us.

But then I came out of a Jag XJ12, so my pain threshold is probably higher than average.

“But then I came out of a Jag XJ12, so my pain threshold is probably higher than average.”

Yeah, that’s probably why you would call an Audi “reliable”. You could only say that if you owned a Brit car before.

As a lifelong pedestrian who doesn’t get all worked up about cars, I must say the only car that ever turned my head was a Jaguar. Sexy. Sexy. Sexy.

Reliability often depends on the individual car.

I had a Chrysler Concorde that pretty much lived in the shop.

My wife’s Jetta went in exactly once in 3 years for a noisy window seal.

I sets ’em up.

Volkswagen is very, very good at making their cars live 5-6 years without problems (the lifespan of the longest lease, since VWs are lease queens) and after that they typically turn to crap.

Oooooo. Atriots are into sewage.

Meet the new troll, same as the old troll:

You’ll wonder how I was able to call this.

Exhibit A:

Toyota can sell their little ricers at a profit because they’re made by temp workers in Alabama.

Being a liberal, therefore, French or a fag or both, I always thought a ricer was a kitchen tool. and that the preferred racist term for a Japanese motor vehicle was “rice burner”.

Where have I heard the term ricer before?

RedStater75 said,
February 6, 2009 at 23:37
Rusty Shackleford–
You must drive some Jap scrap ricer hybrid. Eat my carbon!

Bookmark this, badoodly oodly!

“The Truthful Problem with Ted said,
December 8, 2009 at 6:16”

Somebody has never been in the rust belt. “Ricer” is a very common term for Jap(anese*) vehicles here.

*I don’t get why this term is racist. I just use it as an abbreviation.

*I don’t get why this term is racist. I just use it as an abbreviation.

Could someone please explain World War II to Ted?

So what? The Brtish called us “yankees” in the revolution, is “yankee” racist? I don’t think so.

“Ricer” is an abbreviation for “rice burner”; as such, it probably doesn’t qualify as a “racist” term since it refers to a Japanese staple rather than the Japanese people.

Oh shit. Is this the current thread?

Merry Xmas:

Hokay. “Ricer” is not the correct term, fuckshit. “Rice burner” is the term of art. Get it together pipples.

I don’t mean “ricer” as a racist term, really. Just means “small Japanese car”. I’m sure the Japanese have some choice words for big-ass American SUVs.

WTF?!? CAR shit!?!?!??!

I am SO down with this. As an aging gearhead I wish to point out, my VW has 120K miles and has consumed circa $600 on repairs in the last 10 years. FUCK YOU CAMARO KIDS!!! HAHAHAHHHAHA

PS – your’e all gay gay gay.

Camaro kids or us?

If giving money to a politician is “Free Speech”, why are there limits on what everyday Americans can give?

The USA is the land of big cars and penis enhancement pills. I think the pills are less damaging to the environment.

The USA is the land of big cars and penis enhancement pills

Yeah! Stupid big cars! Who needs that big-ass gas guzzling Chevy Cobalt XFE when you can buy that fuel efficient Toytoa Sequoia? Nobody, THAT’S who!

The USA is the land of big cars and penis enhancement pills.

Interestingly, both address the same lack.

OK, not in all cases. It was just too easy.

I don’t see how a Toyota built in the USA for the US market counts as foreign, but whatever.

Of course you don’t know why, animus! Because you’re stupid and uninformed.

I’m confused. Who has the big PENIS?
The Magliozzi Brothers?
Is Fiat behind this whole conspiracy? Berlusconi?

You’re stupid and uninformed, but I’M the one trying to argue that there’s nothing racist about calling Japanese people “Japs”.

Well, is it racist when Brits call us “yanks”? Not really.

If we could find a way to cap & trade Ted, we could eliminate a big source of domestic gas emissions.

What the fuck do the British people you clearly formed your entire perception of from old movies have to do with ANYTHING? “Jap” is accepted by EVERYONE to be a racial slur, you stupid fucking redneck jerkoff. You don’t get to quantify this. I’m terribly sorry if you’re butthurt that Lord Queefington of Blumpkinshire or whatever the fuck alcoholic hallucination called you a “Yank”, but seriously, get the fuck over it.

Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
Hell, we’re talking about people who idealized a man who said, “Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do.”

Gentlemen (and the Ladies), I give you the flatulent Elm of West Ruislip, Q.E.D., bookmarket, libs!

Ted: get a bike and stop bitching. You can even build it yourself so those dirty asians haven’t touched it.

Gearhead shit? Come on. I was hoping for some laffs. Color me ding-dong disappointed. Badoodle-boo hoo hoo.

Gearhead shit? Come on. I was hoping for some laffs. Color me ding-dong disappointed. Badoodle-boo hoo hoo.

Well, Tim Tebow is still a fucking weenie loser, so there’s some consolation there.

St. Kid from Kounty Meath:

Hehehehehehehehe! This.

I’m glad that the Cobalt is a nice car.

But it’s about ten years into its development cycle and about twenty years too late.

Also, I have to talk to some Republican scum to buy it.

…When I would rather have a car with more cargo room and at least some hybrid components. Yeah, a Hybrid Altima is kinda spendy. But then again, so are all new cars right now.

People should just take a freaking bus imo.

In my time I produced many a ricercar, but for all my efforts I was still baroque.

I say, will you dashed Yanks pipe down over there? You’re disturbing m’bloodhounds!

Bloody insurrectionists.

4) From the department of memorable Shakespeare quotes: “I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams.”

Nuff said about the Freeper condition.

I don’t think Ted is Troofie. There is more than one troll in the world.

That said, Ted, I do wish you would comment on Anthony’s 100% accurate summary of your argument. It won’t go away just because you ignore it.

Smaller cars can be built with good profit margins. I think the margin on the Prius is pretty good, as well as on the Mini. The issue for American automakers is, they have to invest on the front end to get to that point with a smaller car.

But only if companies don’t have to worry about paying workers benefits. That’s why the furrin car companies set up shop in the historically anti-union, plantation South. Of course in their home countries, gummint takes care of many of the benefits.

So if Ted were really concerned about jobs, he’d be pushing for health care reform (real reform, not what’s going through Congress now) rather than worrying about teh evil Jews rootless cosmopolitans international elites. Anyway, as Japan has shown, government environmental regulations can actually spur job producing innovations.

OTOH, there are a lot of Teds IRL. They note that the left seems more concerned with the right of “icky people to do icky things” and with furry woodland creatures (the right loves furry woodland creatures as well, but that’s another story 😉 ) than with “everyday folks”. They also don’t trust the right. And they also note that nobody is opposing so-called “free trade”, etc.

So what do they do? They figure “both sides are equally bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle” and vote for the “moderate” members of the wanker caucus who proceed to further undermine the position of the Teds of the world … so lather, rinse, repeat.

We lefties do need to convince the Teds of the world that our ideas really will help them. Then the Teds of the world will vote for dirty hippies rather than wankers. After all, it’s the wankers that really are pushing the “compromises” that truly hurt the Teds of the world even if the Teds of the world think that the wankers are the best pols evah because “both sides are equally bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle”.

Teds of the world unite — and stop wanking and voting for wankers but rather support the people who really will help your plight!

How the fuck do you prove that to someone who I can’t convince that global warming was not invented by car companies? Yeah, if only liberals stopped loving woodland critters more than middle class Americans. In other words if only liberals stop doing a thing that they don’t do but is actually an image cultivated by rightwing propagandists over decades…

Its like this: you have chest pains so you go to the ER. Doctor tells you that have congenital heart defect that she can’t do anything about but if you cut out the fatty foods and exercise a bit more you’ll probably live a normal life. Evidently, if you’re a Wingnut, appropriate response is to go on a strict regimen of deep-fried cheesecake because, hey, its congenital, and you’re not gonna let some pointy-headed doctor tell you what you can and can’t eat.

Wiley, smaller cars sell for less money, period. This means less (or more often, zero or even a LOSS) profit for car companies with a unionized work force.

This is a rainbow of wrong.

The ONLY reason the Big Three make money on SUVs is the tax credit given to small business owners, up to $100,000, by the Bush administration.

PERIOD!

Anyway, as Japan has shown, government environmental regulations can actually spur job producing innovations.

Japan has also demonstrated innovations in healthcare by privatizing it, with 3000 companies pursuing the policies of the populace…while strictly regulating the profit margins and insisting on universal coverage.

*I don’t get why this term is racist. I just use it as an abbreviation.

I’m sure the Nip(ponese)s approve, bo(hemian)hunk(garian) (slave whip)cracker.

People should just take a freaking bus imo.

If I lived in Europe, or one of the handful of American cities with decent mass transportation I might do just that.

Here in the suburbs of Columbus Ohio, I can’t even ride my bike to the nearest grocery store without venturing onto a main road and taking my life in my hands.

So if I want to ride my bike, I’m put in the absurd position of having to put it on the car and drive it to a bike path somewhere.

It is ironic, Kong, that the town of Columbus probably has more extensive bike access than its suburbs, particularly since most people move to the burbs to raise their kids who, you know, tend to ride bikes a little.

Most of the newer neighborhoods don’t even have sidewalks.

Most of the newer neighborhoods don’t even have sidewalks.

True, and stupid, but sidewalks are part of the right-of-way, and hence cost government cheese. Local governments are in debt up to their eyeballs so they can’t afford upkeep on existing infrastructure, let alone costly upgrades to existing R/Ws. (Privatized sidewalks are a liability nightmare; they don’t exist.)

Now — will someone please scold me that if only taxes were lower local governments could afford to buy more sidewalks?

Burning question of the day – Has Tiger Woods banged Palin yet?

Has Tiger Woods banged Palin yet?

I don’t know, but it sounds like he’s done pretty much everybody else.

will someone please scold me that if only taxes were lower local governments could afford to buy more sidewalks?

Y’know, if only taxes were lower…

41000 tons? That’s more than the USA emits every 5 minutes!!! (Oh, wait, it’s less)

I don’t mean “ricer” as a racist term, really

Ooookay.

So how do you mean it when you say “Jap” then, asshole?

I don’t mean “ricer” as a racist term, really.

Yes, you do.
Yes, you’re disgusting.
Yes, you’re mentally inferior.
Yes, you are an asshole.

Ted is a ricer

(Ricer: from the latin word Ricarius meaning to suck at everything you attempt)

The USA is the land of big cars and penis enhancement pills. I think the pills are less damaging to the environment.

It gets in the water and then the fish have big, um, problems.

In my time I produced many a ricercar, but for all my efforts I was still baroque.

SWOON! I do love a late-Renaissance man, especially one who can handle the organ so well.

Hurrah! I’ve just been nym-stolen for the first time since I started using this formula to point out when Troofus was back… the above comment, detailing the if not actual racism, then sheer dumb American Exceptionalism of Ted, wasn’t actually by the usual me…

But it did an admirable job of slapping him down all the same!

To add my own little contribution though, much as I’d love to sit here and take car buying advice from someone who is just going to assert American Is Best no matter what (so I could just imagine a Teddism for myself), I’d also like to add he somehow managed to make the following completely self-contradictory arguments, which led to much mirth;

Toyota et all steal jobs from American workers, because of the unionized rates those workers demand….
… But American union bosses are evil, co-opted by big business through dedication to Anti-Worker causes and as they run the unions, American unions are thus helping destroy American jobs…
… but yeah, irony, keep on supporting those Union busting evil, no wait, great, no wait evil “Japs” buddy! You should not, no wait should! No wait should not support American unions because they protect, destroy, protect American jobs!

And then there was this classic…

Volkswagons are poorly made, go sit in a brand new yadda yadda and compare it to an American made yadda… you’ll see how better made they are!
… But [i]also[/i] Volkswagons are exceptionally made for the first 6 years of a cars life, and just look and feel better than American cars, after which they suddenly turn to poop!

Ho ho ho… Ted, you may not (or may, or may not be!) one of our regular trolls, but by god you are dumb… you don’t even know what you believe, except that no matter how much changing of arguments and beliefs you have to make, every one else is wrong, but should have kept you in work at some American company all the same!

My VW (well my sister’s now) is still going strong after 13 years. It had 130K on it when I gave it to her 3 years ago. My only major repair was the clutch that I had to replace at 110K miles.

I can’t believe no-one has pointed out that Derbyshire is apparently getting his information about Africa from 2012 the movie*. You can plant as many trees as you like, but Africa will still have deserts where there are deserts, and lush land where there is lush land. It is a fucking CONTINENT and not a single country (or “nation”), after all. Idiot.

*Where apparently, only Kenya and parts of Tanzania were left (that I could see), but they still called it fucking “Africa”.

Finally, a topic into which one’s teeth can be successfully sunk. Would Ted care to explain how a Talon coming off the Belvidere, IL assembly line was an American car, while the Pentastar Mitsubishi eight feet behind it was an import, with an 80+ percent swing in “domestic content” for identical vehicles, less the badge? Or why Canadian Trucks and Mexican everything are Monroneyed as American?
Perhaps you’d care to pop your head in the door at BMW’s plant in Spartanburg and tell the workers there (highest-ranked US auto plant for build quality, and the largest exporter of US-built vehicles in the nation) that they’re not building American?
I will, however, agree that domestic build quality has improved greatly since the nadir of the eighties, but that’s really a separate argument. The reason the bit three stunk the joint up for so long is that upper management saw Lear jets and gated communities coming off assembly lines, not automobiles. Some of us still haven’t really forgiven them for say, moving sub-plants to Mexico, idling entire communities, just to save $1.25 on a steering wheel, since Pablo doesn’t notice he’s breathing, and his kids are bathing in, toxic waste.

Here in the suburbs of Columbus Ohio, I can’t even ride my bike to the nearest grocery store without venturing onto a main road and taking my life in my hands.

Dear major, it’s not taking your life into your hands, it’s placing it in the hands of others, many of whom are inattentive or downright hostile. A good friend of mine told about how two NJ cafones joked about running him down in a local parking lot. WTF?

You can plant as many trees as you like, but Africa will still have deserts where there are deserts, and lush land where there is lush land.

Not necessarily…

Volkswagons are poorly made

I miss my Passat. 2000, had barely 50,000 miles on it when it was savagely raped by a cheap ass Amurican car that ran a stop sign…*sigh*

The climate conference can accomplish nothing, and so it doesn’t matter if the participants are hypocrites or not. Our economic system is predicated on environmental destruction, and we are all culpable.

The global depression is the best thing we’ve ever done for the environment. As unemployment approaches 100%, the industrial machine stops, and billions of human lives lose support. This is the price we pay to restore the environment.

As unemployment approaches 100%, the industrial machine stops, and billions of human lives lose support. This is the price we pay to restore the environment.

You must be loads of fun in a cancer ward.

The bottom line is, we need JOBS in this country, not feel good environmental religions that China and India aren’t going to follow anyway.

Thanks for providing that false dichotomy made of false assumptions … both China & India are already feeling the not-so-awesome effects of shitting in their own nest, & have been rethinking their attitude towards the environment – & despite what scholarly giants like Glenn Beck & Ann Coulter have said on the subject, most “Green” industries are actually rather labor-intensive.

Still cracks me up how many wingnuts refer to “the global-warming religion” (because after all, what could be more like blind faith than using crazy unproven stuff like double-blind studies, objective thought-processes & large quantities of hard data to make predictions or draw conclusions?), while denouncing “Secular Humanism” for menacing their precious Judeo-Christian heritage in the next breath – some apparently choose to treat cognitive dissonance as if it were an essential nutrient.

We’re coming out of a Solar Minimum. An extremely deep one.

Don’t forget El Nina. A perfect storm of cooling factors at unusually high levels of activity – & yet the planet has still been experiencing record levels of heating in the summertime.

Extrapolate from what we’ve seen over the past few summers worldwide to what’s likely going to go down around the next Solar Maximum, 5 or 6 years hence, & the obvious question is: how fast can you dig?

Climate change denialism always cracks me up because they’re having the wrong argument. And it annoys me because the right argument is efficiency.

An energy-wasteful nation such as ours will pay for it not only in pollution, but in waste. Wasting energy costs you money. This is not a controversial point and conservatives and climate denialists usually just clamp their fat mouths shut when you mention this because it is not central to their point. But imagine:

Plant A manufactures cars and is powered by dirty coal. It is situated in Michigan and endures bitterly cold winters by running the heat for the plant at full-out capacity all day long. No effort is made to conserve energy at all. Doors hang open in the plant, insulation is thin or nonexistent, windows are thin and leak heat constantly. Lights are incandescent and put out more heat than light but since they’re above the workers they don’t help heat the plant at all, instead just leaking heat out through the thin metal ceiling. The floor is concrete.

Plant B manufacturs cars and is powered by solar. Windows and doors are shut during the winter. Lights are flourescent and last for years without needing replacement. The walls are well insulated. The machinery consumes very little electricity at idle.

All other factors are equal. An equal number of workers at each plant receive exactly the same pay. Materials are exactly the same cost.

Question for denialtards: Which plant is making more money? Power is an operating cost and big companies hate when something hits operating costs because it cuts into the bottom line and you don’t get anything in return. On the other hand, weatherproofing the plant and converting it to solar was a capital expense (this is complicated for conservatives who don’t know fuck-all about business so I’m trying to dumb it down as much as possible). The great thing about capital expenses is that not only does the company own an asset after an expenditure, but it gets to keep that asset on its books and depreciate it year after year. Accounting-wise, Plant B is kicking plant A’s ass square sideways.

So why, oh, why, oh, why why why why do we continue to do things in the sloppiest, messiest, most inefficient AND ineffective way possible? How can Plant A benefit from being a bunch of slobs and jerks?

This should go in the dictionary under Tu Quoque. About the best I’ve seen.

ice9

“So why, oh, why, oh, why why why why do we continue to do things in the sloppiest, messiest, most inefficient AND ineffective way possible? How can Plant A benefit from being a bunch of slobs and jerks?”

Recognizing that this is a rhetorical question, I’ma gonna answer it anyway with two words: “Quarterly Profits.”

Putting money into the plant cuts into profits today with the payoff somewhere in the indeterminate future, therefore, the E-level dudes who get a big chunk of their salary in the form of profit incentives don’t want to hear it.

Of course, the domestic automakers fucked themselves sideways when they negotiated the pension setup with the UAW back in the ’70s and ’80s, when they were kings of the hill, hugely profitable and could see nothing but money for the forseeable future. Now, in these days of more pensioners than actual employees, they’re screwed and of course they underfunded their pension plans when they had the money so their retirees are fucked too.

Of course, anyone who drove a Datsun back then could have told them some serious competition was on the horizon.

And as far as the quality of domestic cars goes: I do something called autocross. This sort of requires that a stock class driver keep pretty current with vehicles. The last time I was looking for a competition car, I considered the Chevy Cobalt, vs. Mazda 3 and some others. The thing was, the Cobalt looked like a good car for autox but, when I started to look at quality over time, I noticed that there was a recurring theme on the car boards that most people loved their Cobalt but there was a percentage of owners who got complete lemons.

No such issue in the Mazda3 discussions.

I ended up picking up a used MINI Cooper S that a local autocrosser had for sale but I found the research enlightening.

#

PeeJ said,

December 8, 2009 at 6:45 (kill)

PS – your’e all gay gay gay.

YOU’RE gay.

wait…

And as far as the quality of domestic cars goes: I do something called autocross. This sort of requires that a stock class driver keep pretty current with vehicles. The last time I was looking for a competition car, I considered the Chevy Cobalt, vs. Mazda 3 and some others. The thing was, the Cobalt looked like a good car for autox but, when I started to look at quality over time, I noticed that there was a recurring theme on the car boards that most people loved their Cobalt but there was a percentage of owners who got complete lemons.

Yay, autocrossing! I run a ’99 Subaru Impreza in DSP 🙂

And as to the troll’s comment about the Challenger being the best “ponycar” — he should talk to the ponycar folks in ESP that had the WRX and Evo kicked out of the class ’cause they couldn’t keep up with them.

my world turned upside down when “cap&trade” became something conservatives were against and progressives were for. Why not take a massive potential revenue stream for the government and hand it directly to goldman? That makes us democra-wha?

also note, the concern is not summers getting hotter, but winters getting warmer. particular at the poles, where all that ice is…

no one really cares about sunspots. it’s a fucking 11 year cycle. anyone harping on water vapor, in relation to climate change, is a moron.

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