That wounded vet coming home from the wars? If he accepts any form of public assistance, John “Buy My Book” Miller will stab him right through the eye with his special book signing Sharpie.

I love it. Maybe Baby Jesus will smile on us this Festivus season and the fReichtards will purge the poor from their ranks.

People dropping dead from starvation in the streets is a small price to pay, if it means that the deadbeats will fight each other for non-existent jobs.

“Are there no prisons…”, etc.

I forget. Didn’t the railcar have purple tassels,too? Or maybe the purple prose just automatically caused me to envision them in that shade.

Alliteration and a mashed masterpiece. Wow!

Since I lost my job, I’ve been working part-time in a chain of “take and bake” pizza stores. I have unemployment benefits, so thus far I’ve no need for food stamps.

However, since it is “take and bake” pizza, and regulated as groceries, we do accept food stamps and place that fact upon our advertisements.

I had the following conversation some months ago: “Thank you for calling, would you like to hear our specials?”

Female Caller: “Your ad says you gladly accept EBT. What does that mean?”

Me: “We accept food stamp cards.”

Female Caller, snooty tone: “That’s what I thought. Will you tell your manager that that’s the reason I don’t buy your pizzas? I don’t think it’s right.”

Me: “I’ll pass that on.”

This bothered me. Later a woman came in and paid with a food stamp card which wouldn’t swipe, so I had to enter the numbers in manually. This happens quite often and people telll me that the state won’t replace the cards if that is the only problem with them. I commented on this to her.

She responded that she had worked for the state issuing the cards before she had contracted some chronic health problems. I told her about the earlier conversation with the snooty bitch, and wished that I had known about her case before the call, if only to steady my moral bearings, so I could have responded better.

So every time I hear about some elitist asshole bitching about how people shouldn’t need to eat so badly that other people have to pay for it, I reach for my figurative nunchucks.

You looney libs think you can escape me by starting new threads, but I am ever vigilant, ready to ensure Republican victory over the muslim atheists and their Messiah.

SpoofTed makes more sense by accident than the other one does on purpose.

That didn’t come out right. Anyway, let’s keep this one and feed the other one to feral cats.

A nice reminder of why we are picking on this poor, poor, innocent novelist. What a vile scumbag.

Female Caller, snooty tone: “That’s what I thought. Will you tell your manager that that’s the reason I don’t buy your pizzas? I don’t think it’s right.”

Speaking of vile scumbags…

At least I’m not a christian non-believer.

Sweet Zombie Jesus, I’ve never seen anyone beg so hard for karma to kick them in the ass.

You mean Miller is unaware that the reason the food stamp program was started in the first place is that so many young men who tried to enlist for service in WWII couldn’t qualify thanks to the health problems caused by malnutrition during their youth in the Depression? Congress decided as a result that nutrition is a national security issue. Why does Miller hate America and the troops?

He seems to be in quite a dither, doesn’t he?

Here’s a slightly longer shorter Miller: “You know, on one hand, the government really thinks it’s helping people out by keeping them from starvation or whatever, and I guess maybe there’s something to that. But on the other hand, well, it’s definitely hurting them if it increases dependency. Starvation and dependency! How to balance these two is a serious question.”

Fortunately there’s an answer, and it’s based on the old (apocryphal?) witch test. Abolish welfare entirely and see what happens. The people who starve to death clearly needed the benefit, and are vindicated by their deaths and the deaths of their children. The people who manage to live were clearly dependent leeches and should be punished. Simple!

“The federal government may think it’s doing people a favor by providing them with access to food,”

MAY.

The day the teabaggers manage to end welfare completely is the day that some very important people are going to be having some very uncomfortable conversations with some very rich people. Unemployment benefits, Medicaid, food stamps, etc. are all part of the bare minimum social safety net required to maintain an acceptably functional working class and reduce the occurrence of subsistence crime.

Seems like there ought to be a stigma attached to the use of welfare. A little bit of shame can go a long way toward encouraging people to find jobs. The federal government may think it’s doing people a favor by providing them with access to food, but it’s doing them a disservice if it also robs them of the motivation necessary to break free from dependency.

Even if I were to accept his basic premise that people should be made to feel bad for needing help, there are 6 job hunters for every open position – people can’t find work no matter how motivated they are because there aren’t enough jobs. Yet even so they still feel shame; the son of two of the nicest people I’ve known just committed suicide because he couldn’t find work. Seems like there ought to be a stigma attached to being a ignorant, unthinking, heartless wingnut welfare motherfucker.

Former NZ Prime Minister, Jenny Shipley, when she was Minister of Welfare, advised teh poor folks to start vege gardens to supplement their food supplies. Of course it would work if they had the time, the seeds, the land , the knowledge, some money to get started AND got started 6 months before they needed it. This doesn’t seem to make a dent in the Right wing checklist, however. Poor=worthless, to them.

Well, accepting your logic that NAFTA hurt us it must have helped mexico. So, yeah 10% unemployment sucks and all, but I’m still gonna go with rather live here than mexico. Gonna let the chips fall that way if they gotta fall.

So, this tool needs to hang with Craig T. Nelson.

Republican economic policy from the late 70s on can basically be boiled down to: let’s strip mine the US economy.

I read the shorter. I’m going to follow the link, and the shorter will have been right. I will be filled with regret. More anon.
Also.

AAAAAARRRRGGGHHH! The shorter was right. Way right.

Hey! Ted is a Lefty!

Ted, you do realize that NAFTA was a GHW Bush project, and was only ratified under Teh Clenis?

Yep, them union gigs were sweet, huh?

Apparently, no. Ted did not realize. Hey Ted! Read this.

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation’s legislative or parliamentary branch.

—

In the U.S., Bush, who had worked to “fast track” the signing prior to the end of his term, ran out of time and had to pass the required ratification and signing into law to incoming president Bill Clinton. Prior to sending it to the House of Representatives, Clinton introduced clauses intended to protect American workers and allay the concerns of many House members. It also required U.S. partners to adhere to environmental practices and regulations similar to its own. The ability to enforce these clauses, especially with Mexico, was considered questionable, and with much consternation and emotional discussion the House of Representatives approved NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by a vote of 234 to 200. Remarkably, the agreement’s supporters included 132 Republicans and only 102 Democrats.

Maybe he and Charles Lane can co-author a book: Hunger is good for you because that guy’s fat, get a job loser!

One of the funny things about Mr. Miller’s latest gleaming steaming one eyed engine o’ crap is he clearly has no idea how many people are on welfare (AKA assistance among folks who don’t like to say they’re on welfare). Mr. Miller imagines they’re all lazy brown people in large cities (see also,Queens, Welfare, Cadillacs). When in fact, there’d be a lot of ghost towns in rural America if it weren’t for government aid.

As I’ve said before: Give these assholes a bigger megaphone!

I’d find it easier to take Ted’s theories seriously if he hadn’t just referred to my partner’s family as “Japs”. Just to keep in mind, Ted. Unless you’re just going for the racist lizardbrain agreement.

I’m still wrapping my head around how letting two countries trade with each other could work out bad for both of them….

Okay, given the Pat Buchanan namecheck, I’m going to now assume that Ted actually was going for the racist lizardbrain agreement, and I withdraw my objection. Carry on making people hate you and your point of view, sir.

Clinton was a DLCer from the start. The same corporate money that ran the Republican party wanted to do the same with the Democrats, thus the DLC. Clinton, like Obama, is Centrist to Center-right. Clinton was politically reared that way. Obama comes to it from a sense of compromise, I think. At any rate, you’re not going to hear any Democrats describe either of them as any sort of socialist or hard core leftist. The things you are bitching about all are products of the right.

After a long study of the human race, I have come to the conclusion that, even if they try really hard, which this guy doesn’t, it can be impossible for a guy to become less of a shithead as he gets older.
This, I find disillusioning.

Whoopsie! Bye Tedlie!

the old (apocryphal?) witch test

My interest is primarily in the occult beliefs themselves rather than the trials, but Malleus Maleficarum at least frowns strongly on trial by ordeal:

there is no Divine authority for such trials, nor are they anywhere sanctioned in the writings of the Holy Fathers.

in the case of trial by red-hot iron a miraculous effect is looked for […] therefore the trial by red-hot iron is altogether unlawful

But it does also suggest the damned-either-way outcome:

Finally, if he sees that she will not admit her crimes, he shall ask her whether, to prove her innocence, she is ready to undergo the ordeal by red-hot iron. And they all desire this, knowing that the devil will prevent them from being hurt; therefore a true witch is exposed in this manner. The Judge shall ask her how she can be so rash as to run so great a risk, and all shall be written down; but it will be shown later that they are never to be allowed to undergo this ordeal by red-hot iron.

Waitaminnit — W’s administration made it easier to apply for food stamps and made some progress in destigmatizing them? It’s getting harder and harder to find ideologically pure conservatives. Woo-hoo, twenty-eight percent, baby!

The food stamp program is administered through the federal Department of Agriculture and functions as much as a subsidy to those who grow food as aid to those who buy it.

So why not berate them?

Right, why’d I ask.

Proper Gander, do you think Amy Alkon calls a lot of take-n-bake pizza places?

Reference back to last thread, but … I’m not sick of Tintin. So there.

Proper Gander, do you think Amy Alkon calls a lot of take-n-bake pizza places?

Sounds more like Debbie Schussel to me.

I’m repeating today’s Dash Board in this thread. Ummm… because.

Gavin will post at some point today. I promise.

Proper Gander – thanks for relating that incident.
tigrismus – I am so sorry for your friends’ loss of their son. There’s some stuff that you just never get over.
Jennifer – your various comments at this site are excellent.
D.Sidhe – I love you.

Ted – Oh, Ted, if brains were dynamite, you couldn’t even blow your nose.

tintin, et al. – I adore your twisted portraits. I want to visit the venerable old manor house in which all of them are displayed in their heavy gilded frames. But I would not want to live there. So: wanna start a mini-theme park? Kind of a Haunted House, but more like a Mal Galerie des Horreurs Monstrueuses? At each portrait, you could press a button and hear commentary in the original Nutspeak. We would have to keep EMTs on staff, though.

tigrismus – you have my sympathies as well. That’s horrible.

Why are the recent trolls so predictable and boring? Has our service contract been downgraded?

You know, I would really love for this asshole to meet my sister and explain to her why she’s a lazy, unmotivated bitch because she uses food stamps to help care for our early-stage-Alzheimer’s mother and our autistic brother.

I can’t even try to be funny about this. What a fucking useless waste of carbon.

What a cunt. Wish I could be paid for being openly despicable.

Pizza as an unhealthy luxury? Actually, pizza can be quite healthy, and in fact it’s an economical use of leftovers, in its purest form.

Some simple yeast dough, a little cheese, some pureed tomatoes. Get fancy and add some bits of sausage or vegetables – it’s still economical. There’s probably less than 2 oz. of pepperoni in a pizza that can serve 4 people.

Honest to God, what the fuck is the matter with John Miller? Does he think people *enjoy* having to use food stamps? That they get food stamps and think “Damn, I’m on the gravy train to easy living now!”? I’ve said it before and I will say it again: fuck him.

Of course, advertisers are less discriminating about catering to filthy welfare leeches.

there ought to be a stigma attached
My sense of self-esteem functions best when other people are encouraged to feel guilty or inferior.

He puts the “ass” in “compassionate conservative.”

Does he think people *enjoy* having to use food stamps? That they get food stamps and think “Damn, I’m on the gravy train to easy living now!”?

I think he thinks that welfare is addictive, like crack cocaine: if you let the government give you just one hit of food stamps, you’ll instantly be hooked on government handouts and you’ll never want to work again so that you’ll never have to give up the literally dozens of dollars per month you receive.

If you click on the link, you’ll see some cheery Santa hats hanging over this Scroogey post by Mr. Miller. Perfect.

John Miller’s about me page links to this

My advice for middle schoolers.
By John J. Miller

The K-8 school my kids attend recently devoted a whole day to the importance of reading. Speakers came in to read stories and tell tales. I was one of them, in what became a kind of career-day seminar for the middle-school set. I was asked to discuss how I got started as a professional writer and what it’s like to be one. Here’s what I said.

My five-year-old son has no idea what I do for a living. As near as he can tell, I spend the bulk of my time in a basement office, staring at a computer screen, and occasionally talking on the phone or typing. He probably wonders why I don’t do something more interesting, such as play computer games, because that’s what he’d do.

John Miller looks like Herman Munster with a perm in this photo. haha.

In the Nordic countries there is a social stigma against using the welfare services too much. That is how they are able to afford it. Things is we all know just who would be at the front of the line demanding they get first class treatment.

The wing-nuts are sort of right about one thing. If everyone were greedy self absorbed assholes like they are then no, we couldn’t afford the kind of broad social security net they have in the EU. All the more reason then for them to be socially stigmatized and isolated.

(off now to actually read the article and the comments here)

Djur said:
“Unemployment benefits, Medicaid, food stamps, etc. are all part of the bare minimum social safety net required to maintain an acceptably functional working class and reduce the occurrence of subsistence crime.”

You assume we want a functional working class. We’ll be just fine in our gated communities patrolled by our private security guards who will shoot to kill any of you motherfuckers that try to climb the walls.

We don’t need no stinkin’ industry fill with stinkin’ prolls always demanding a living wage. We can fund our lifestyle forever by playing the high finance market game.

What could possibly go wrong?

victory over the muslim atheists

Ahem. You may think you’re original, Ted, but sadly, no: the “Japs” beat you to it. With less stupid, and more funny.

After reading his “article” I just want to say I’d sure like a gig like that. My comment was longer, considered both sides and took more thought than I’m sure he ever put into his.

There is no way I could ever write like that. I would take the NY Times quote and then try to point out the pros and the cons of all the various proposals that people have regarding welfare. I could never just uhhhh.. toss off a piece of crap like that. I have pride. Maybe that’s my failing?

We’ll be just fine in our gated communities patrolled by our private security guards

Who make minimum wage and are on food stamps to survive. Good luck on how that works out!

Marita, thanks for your kind words. It’s terrible to consider that his and his family’s experience is not unique, nor even all that rare.

Charles Pierce, I hope (rather than believe, alas) that you’re wrong.

N.C., is that screen shot for real? If so, Tintin should consider pasting it in, it’s just too perfect.

My comment was longer, considered both sides and took more thought than I’m sure he ever put into his.

Yours needs more fringed pillows and long-limbed slave girls.

Having been a stay at home dad with a baby for about 3 months myself, I understand that Gavin must be tired but c’mon already. In addition to noen’s suggestion in the last thread of a CCCP lapel pin, how long must we wait for him to p-shop a Stalin mustache onto adorable little Dash? I could do so myself but would never and will if forced rob Gavin of the joys of such a wonderful father-son bonding experience.

When in fact, there’d be a lot of ghost towns in rural America if it weren’t for government aid.

Nice point, Arky. My friend’s father is a pediatrician in rural Northern PA where Walmart is the main employer, and even among those working, most families that live there qualify for food stamps or Medicaid, or one of their members is on SSI or Medicare. Yet, this is also teabagger territory, where people are virulently anti-government as they “cling to their guns and religion” and constantly vote for Repubs and against their own interests. Go figure.

Also too I agree with the poster upthread that I would love to be a witness when these wingnut welfare fuckshits get hit by the karmic bus.

tigrismus, my condolences to you and your friends.

Miller has responded to a couple of emails that say he’s being a jerk.

We should show compassion for those who are down on their luck. Good people can b[e] put in tough positions through no fault of their own. At the same time, I fear for the day when no stigma attaches itself to the acceptance of government handouts.

SNAP tattooed across their foreheads in scarlet letters. It is the only way.

I fear for the day when no stigma attaches itself to the acceptance of government handouts.

Hasn’t that horse already left the barn? At least for corporate farms, sports team franchises, military contractors, and the latest recipients, banks?

He’s worried about poor kids eating government cheese, when AIG and Citicorp are smiling?

…there ought to be a stigma attached to the use of welfare…
…the day when no stigma attaches itself…

I think he wants the unemployed to turn into flowers.
Never mind the bollocks, here’s the sex pistils!

Yep, it’s the Life of Riley on “assistance.”

In the County of Los Angeles (No doubt second only to the City & County of San Francisco in cost-of-living in Calif.) I received General Relief, which totaled $221.00 in cash & $162.00 a month in Food Stamps, when I was an unemployed, bi-polar, willing to kill my boss, about to be homeless “looser.” (Not to worry: I am no longer homeless.)

And I knew once I was getting that princely sum I would be completely unmotivated, & willing to sacrifice my “liberty” for a hand-out. (Unless I had to murder someone near the end of the month to get cigarettes.)

En fait, que le con mange de la merde!

Why are the recent trolls so predictable and boring?

Because too many Sadlynaughts fall all over them just the same? (Honestly guys, Ted is basically an extra-retarded If They Mated of Gary and Twoofie. Why do you even bother?)

Thanks, J—.

Hasn’t that horse already left the barn? At least for corporate farms, sports team franchises, military contractors, and the latest recipients, banks?

Ha, I won’t hold my breath for him to address this point.

G @ 22:11:

Minimum wage guards protecting gated communities works out very well for the wealthy in Brazil, Mexico, and the rest of South America.

The notion that extreme disparities in wealth will inconvenience the wealthy is not supported by evidence.

The notion that extreme disparities in wealth will inconvenience the wealthy is not supported by evidence.

Well, sometimes.

Moron Mickey Kaus also checks in on The NYT story:

The paleoliberal undermessage of today’s NYT piece is basically: ‘Hah, hah, you conservatives and ‘values’ Dems. When times are tough all your stigmatizing of welfare goes out the window.’ Americans are learning to to love the dole.’

And (his bolding):

If you came across two societies–Society A, in which food stamps were stigmatized, with families reluctant to go on the dole even if they were eligible, and Society B, in which they weren’t, you would want to bet on (and live in) Society A. It’s one thing to relax the stigma on welfare in times of epic economic decline. It’s another if the stigma doesn’t return with the possibility of employment.

Her’s a clue, Kaus, you ugly fucking simpleton: Any one who is sane would rather live in Society A, because Society B is probably a paradise for fascist reactionaries & racists.

Unless Mickey’s so Zen he can live on $221.00 in cash & $162.00 in Stamps each month.

The NYT types:

With most of his co-workers laid off, Greg Dawson, a third-generation electrician in rural Martinsville, considers himself lucky to still have a job. He works the night shift for a contracting firm, installing freezer lights in a chain of grocery stores. But when his overtime income vanished and his expenses went up, Mr. Dawson started skimping on meals to feed his wife and five children.

He tried to fill up on cereal and eggs. He ate a lot of Spam. Then he went to work with a grumbling stomach to shine lights on food he could not afford. When an outreach worker appeared at his son’s Head Start program, Mr. Dawson gave in.

“It’s embarrassing,” said Mr. Dawson, 29, a taciturn man with a wispy goatee who is so uneasy about the monthly benefit of $300 that he has not told his parents. “I always thought it was people trying to milk the system. But we just felt like we really needed the help right now.”

How are White People to out-breed the swarthy & Muslim if they can’t feed their children w/o SNAP? It’s a quandry reactionaries may not be able to reason their way out of.

I always thought it was people trying to milk the system….

Well, congratulations, Mr. Dawson! That weird stretching feeling in your head is your consciousness raising.

P.S. everything else you learned from wingnuts was a lie, too.

From over here in Society B, I’ll join in the chorus of suggestions that Mr Kaus should go felch a dead ferret.

“It’s embarrassing,” said Mr. Dawson, 29, a taciturn man with a wispy goatee who is so uneasy about the monthly benefit of $300 that he has not told his parents.

If there’s anything this country needs more of it’s people feeling so bad about themselves they can’t even talk openly and honestly with their own families. Yay for the community-building, family-strengthening effects of stigma.

He does have a good point. People will look for jobs harder if they are facing starvation. I suggest we threaten to kill all scientists until they come up with economical solar in order to solve our energy crisis as well. See,.

Wasn’t there a craze a few years ago among the corporation-worshipers for six-stigma management?

Soon we will make welfare leeches wear an identifying mark of some sort, on their clothing, perhaps, so they will be stigmatized into getting one of the many high-paying jobs that are available to anyone..

If these welfare leeches would just follow my lead, they wouldn’t need food stamps.

Goat jism is highly nutritious.

I wonder what Miller means when he talks about stigma. Or rather, what does he think he means. Or rather, what would he mean if he could think. (Whew!) when he writes there should be more of a “mark of disgrace or infamy; a stain or reproach, as on one’s reputation,” for using food stamps.
Or maybe he means “a mark made by a branding iron on the skin of a criminal or slave.”

Or maybe he’s a clueless fucking dick who doesn’t realize words mean things.

My five-year-old son has no idea what I do for a living. As near as he can tell, I spend the bulk of my time in a basement office, staring at a computer screen, and occasionally talking on the phone

“Yeah baby. Take those stockings off niiiice and sloooow. What? Mom, go away I’m working!”

Why do you even bother?)

Well, if we stopped, you wouldn’t participate in the convorsation at all. I, for one, would probably have to cry myself to sleep at night were that come to pass.

Thanks, N.C., for the screen grab!

Pff. Whatever, link leech. There should be a stigma.

There should be a stigma.

Oooh, there oughtta be a comic strip called “There Oughtta Be a Stigma.”

There Oughta Be a Stigma.

Oooh, there oughtta be a comic strip called “There Oughtta Be a Stigma.”

If it was 1978, it would make a great a Normal Lear sitcom.

a, also, a

The fact is, I do not care one bit for people who are poor, unemployed and unemployable, and we should not be taxing productive people just to keep them alive. We should let the free market sort this out, which means some will starve. This happens in nature all the time, and we are not a zoo.

Not to mention the wrong verb. Just ignore my whole post.

And ignore everything else I post until I’m sober.

The fact is, we cannot afford welfare. We are depriving the productive classes of resources that are instead going to prop up loosers and there progeny. Health care, same thing. I will not be taxed for some poor useless eater to get a knee replaced.

And ignore everything else I post until I’m sober.

(you’ll let us know, right?)

we are not a zoo

Speak for yourself, memetroll.

(you’ll let us know, right?)

Send me your email address – and your SSN, address, and DoB for verification purposes – and I will.

Oh, don’t worry, that was just a tinypic link. I was, like, roleplaying.

magic missile, magic missile

Smut Clyde hates dead ferrets. Booooo!

We need more social stigmata, unless the poor people bleed on me when I’m walking to work.

Yeah, we need a stigma, because everyone who is down needs a little kick in the balls as a motivation!!!

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

What we really need is a stigma against motherfucking predators.

No job? No problem! You can still live like a decent American following these tips:

http://bit.ly/ozqT6

(social satire)

Pizza as an unhealthy luxury? Actually, pizza can be quite healthy, and in fact it’s an economical use of leftovers, in its purest form – g

One of the best NPR segments ever gave a recipe for thanksgiving leftover pizza: cranberry sauce instead of tomato sauce and all your other thanksgiving leftovers (finally chopped, if necessary) instead of the usual toppings.

I did something similar this year — thanksgiving lasagna: cranberry sauce instead of tomato sauce and turkey gravy instead of ricotta and/or alfredo sauce.

For Preventing the Children of Poor People in Ireland from Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Public

Let them eat babies!

And for dessert, snow flake babies mixed with fruit juice!

This happens in nature all the time, and we are not a zoo.

Wait. If modern society isn’t a zoo, then where the hell do zoos come from in the first place? The hell kind of screwed up society treats wildebeests and camels better than it does fellow human beings? Especially camels, they’ll spit on you.

And for dessert, snow flake babies mixed with fruit juice!

Godberry Fool.

He does have a good point. People will look for jobs harder if they are facing starvation.

I thought the whole point was that people will work cheaper if they are facing starvation, hence the recession/treasury-theft = feature not bug.

The real class war goes on beyond any armistice to utter annihilation, and then…

where the hell do zoos come from in the first place?
Imprinting on the wrong target during childhood? Adolescent sexuality in search of an outlet?

This is more than a mere petting zoo, I fear.

we are not a zoo.

Speak for yourself, eater.

You know, I think it’s the projection thing again. John Miller sharts out an unreadable piece of hackneyed dreck that no publisher (not even the Wingnut houses!) will touch with a donkey’s dick and you just gotta wonder if there’s some stigma attached to being a undeniably horrendous mangler of the English language and the fiction form. Could it be that John J. Miller, novelist, feels shame? Could it be that he might also feel some sense of shame about his cushy Wingnut Welfare job (he produces just exactly what for the benefit of society from his basement?) and needs to project that out and away from himself? Could it be?

And no fair saying he projects his shame onto others less fortunate than him. Or those more easily ( for him, anyway) scorned. That would be mean. And would constitute the opening shots of the War on Christmas.

The fact is, I do not care one bit for people who are poor, unemployed and unemployable, and we should not be taxing productive people just to keep them alive. We should let the free market sort this out, which means some will starve. This happens in nature all the time, and we are not a zoo.
Hmm… so say there are 30 million people on welfare for the 300 million US citizens that would make 30 reciepts for every 300 total citizens. I would like to think that are 30 people out of the 300 who would care about the 30 on welfare because that could be me at some point. In other words, fuck off gary. For the record, I have no idea how many people are on welfare, although I’m sure only black people and illegal immigrants use it.

Anyone who thinks Gary is gainfully employed is stupider than Gary.
(Conclusion: No one thinks Gary is gainfully employed.)

Aw, my post got et. It went:

And for dessert, snow flake babies mixed with fruit juice!

Godberry Fool.

Obviously it was so delicious wordpress eated the whole thing.

Could it be that he might also feel some sense of shame about his cushy Wingnut Welfare job (he produces just exactly what for the benefit of society from his basement?) and needs to project that out and away from himself? Could it be?

Seriously. Miller gets paid to sit in his basement typing crappy right-wing screeds yet thinks people laid off from honest labor during the worst economy in decades should feel bad about themselves.

It’s a great time to be a sociopath. You don’t even have to hide it. You can be proud of your anti-social tendencies and frame your misanthropy as “reason”. You can actually say you want people in your country to starve to death and claim to be a Patriot at the same time.

wow.

fact is, starving babies makes real patriots shine with pride! Only in the USA can we filter the gene pool for super success. Also, makes FReedom stronger and taller. You may feel bad about people stavring, and me too. But we all know that the real Americans are working, any not parisitics like the welfare queens.

Debate my pointy head, libs!

The fact is, no true patriot for USA feels bad about people starving, because most of them are black. You are a imposterer, also.

It’s a great time to be a sociopath.

This.

I thinking of the word “sociopath” when looking at Miller and Kaus’ comments. Empathy is nowhere to be discerned. Yet apparently their comments are well within the bounds of civil discourse these days. Great time, indeed.

It’s a great time to be a sociopath. You don’t even have to hide it. You can be proud of your anti-social tendencies and frame your misanthropy as “reason”. You can actually say you want people in your country to starve to death and claim to be a Patriot at the same time.

Seems like there ought to be a stigma attached to that.

The fact is, no true patriot for USA feels bad about people starving, because most of them are black. You are a imposterer, also.

Fact is, there are no black people starving, because the ones you see are not real USA citizerny. Only the illegals immigrants are the real parasites! If you would leave you polical correctness, you would see it. But your libreal colored glasses only lets you see socialism.

It’s “SOCIALESM”, you fucking fraud.

But your libreal colored glasses only lets you see socialism.

Not ONLY socialism… there’s also PORN.

are not real USA citizerny

Is this a Russian word?

Did the troll slip, indicating that he’s part of a vast Russian mob/Commie trolling enterprise to make the Inert Web even less useful?

Not ONLY socialism… there’s also PORN.

Hmmmmmm… PORN [/homer]

“…a vast Russian mob/Commie trolling enterprise,,,”
Is possible. I know lot of girls named Gary Ruppert.

I would point out that those posts were signed “Gary RUPRECT“

Okay, I should’ve mentioned this waaaay upthread, but can we start calling Miller a “stigmatard”?

I never knew hunger was withdrawal symptoms from a dependency on food.

I thinking of the word “sociopath” when looking at Miller and Kaus’ comments.

The goal is to foster the peasant mentality that Taibbi was going on about a while ago.
Not only should serfs should be loyal to the landowner and pay their taxes without complaint, but they should be filled with shame and, yes, stigma if they need to claim any of those taxes back to keep them alive while they recover from illness or look for work. After all, the Lord of the Manor has greater need for that money than they do.

I never knew hunger was withdrawal symptoms from a dependency on food.

“They’re using the welfare to support their food habits! They need to go cold turkey on their, um, cold turkey!”

The goal is to foster the peasant mentality that Taibbi was going on about a while ago.

I guess my question then is this: Does Miller (and Kaus, and the rest of the gang of idiots) consciously understand this as their role? Do they really think this out beyond “my side needs to win” (while not really understanding who ‘their’ side is nor what “winning” might mean)? I understand the collective end result as Matt lays it out (fostering the peasant mentality) but I wonder if Miller et al understand their role here in any substantive way. In other words, if you got them really drunk (or coerced them in some fashion) would they (or could they) admit this?

Not-so-shorter conservative illiterati:
The prosperity of the US is built on our risk-tolerant culture in which entrepreneurs are encouraged to take chances and try new things, unlike the rest of the world where innovators are held back by tradition!
Also, people who take risks and fail should suffer the consequences and sink to the depths of abjection before they receive any help from the rest of us.

you would want to bet on (and live in) Society A [in which food stamps were stigmatized, with families reluctant to go on the dole even if they were eligible]

Kaus would lose his bet, what with the Society-B economies of the world — Northern Europe, etc. — generally out-performing and out-innovating and out-happiness-index-scoring the US economy; but I suspect that his apologia for sociopathy was not written after an attempt to examine the real world.

After all, the Lord of the Manor has greater need for that money than they do.

To give one example, the other day during the potato famine discussion I read the wikipedia entry in which the Mahon family are said to have dined on lobster soup though evicting 3000 people from their farms.

The prosperity of the US is built on our risk-tolerant culture in which entrepreneurs are encouraged to take chances and try new things, unlike the rest of the world where innovators are held back by tradition!
Also, people who take risks and fail should suffer the consequences and sink to the depths of abjection before they receive any help from the rest of us.

So…republican entrepreneurs are not people. Because they sure as shit get helped when they fail.

Lewis Lapham wrote a great description of a party during the Great Depression. The Ritz in NYC was flooded and the rich floated around on Gondolas while bread lines stretched around the city.

And I bet most of those people in the bread lines felt burning shame.

I understand the collective end result as Matt lays it out (fostering the peasant mentality) but I wonder if Miller et al understand their role here in any substantive way.

I am loath to try to think like a courtier. Might get stuck that way.

I remember my working poor parenting units tut-tutting over news images of people starving during one of India’s famine. They said that those people were starving because they were sitting around instead of working. I chalked it up to hatefulness. You don’t have to be a douchebag pundit to be hateful, but I think the converse is true.

Ostie Tabarnac!

L’ZOMG! Also.

work and pray
live on hay
you’ll get pie in the sky when you die

I am loath to try to think like a courtier. Might get stuck that way.

Yes. But if they do clearly understand their roles as proponents of “the peasant way” then I need to reset my odiumeter.

Dennis, there’s some lovely filth down here!

To give one example, the other day during the potato famine discussion I read the wikipedia entry in which the Mahon family are said to have dined on lobster soup though evicting 3000 people from their farms.

Not to dispute your point, but I was just wondering: was lobster a delicacy in Ireland at that time? In the US (especially the Atlantic seaboard), lobsters were common enough to be poor people food.

Ask not what America can do for you; ask which of your neighbours you can stigmatise and scold for accepting benefits to which they are entitled and for which they have already paid through their taxes, until eventually they learn to internalise that stigma, at which point you can take a break.

The notion that extreme disparities in wealth will inconvenience the wealthy is not supported by evidence.

Ackchully, any inconveniences experienced by the wealthy on account of the disparities in wealth are just what they are willing to pay for the extreme disparities, which extreme disparities I am still convinced are the POINT of the exercise.

What we really need is a stigma against motherfucking predators.

Yes, this here.

Our problem is our whole moral code. This might be not so easy to fix…

Thanks for the image capture. NRO just lost a click.

I guess my question then is this: Does Miller (and Kaus, and the rest of the gang of idiots) consciously understand this as their role?

No. They think they are of the uberclass. They feel the desire for peonage for others in their bones, as it naturally elevates them. Would that, at minimum, they would one day be disabused of this notion. I hope it fucking hurts.

With all the right-wing blowhards going on and on about government “interference” in business, and all the economic hardship this brings to these poor, defenseless industries, who will be the first brave, patriotic American among the GOP to repeal all these horrible child-labor laws?

I mean, otherwise these tykes will learn to suckle on government teat, rather than burn with pride over contributing to the success of “re-imagined” American Monopolies, right?

the other day during the potato famine discussion

goddamnit, I can’t believe I missed a potato famine thread…

fuck work, I have to keep up with the S,N! discussions

I can go on welfare to do that, right? unemployment? or at least food stamps.

oh shit, that’s right, I live in Texas now… I’m fucked.

He does have a good point. People will look for jobs harder if they are facing starvation.

Yes, and isn’t that the motivation for undocumented workers to come to the US?

You’d think the wingnuts would applaud this display of initiative in these workers, who are clearly much more dedicated to free market principles than lazy Americans.

My understanding is that indeed, lobster was considered poor people’s food in Ireland. The lobster soup may or may not have been an attempt at solidarity – were the diners Irish? or British, who didn’t have the anti-lobster prejudice? And if Irish, had they imbibed British food mores? The “Irish peers” often spent most of their time in England.

I know that Ireland exported food throughout the famine: butter, wheat, meat, etc. Don’t know if this was mentioned in the previous thread, sorry, sorry.

The landlords in Ireland during the famine were put in a very bad position. Some of them felt it more than others. Some bankrupted themselves trying to avoid turning out or starving their tenants. Others, eh, not so much, as they say.

Yet apparently their comments are well within the bounds of civil discourse these days.

The Overton Window continues its relentless march.

They feel the desire for peonage for others in their bones, as it naturally elevates them.

That is unpossible, for these columns often inform me how these pundits have an almost preternatural degree of empathy with the concerns of the average American — either because they remain in touch with their working class roots (which is why those average-American concerns harmonise so closely with their own), or failing that, because they engage taxi drivers in conversation.

almost preternatural degree of empathy with the concerns of the average American

preternatural is a good word for it

“Out of or being beyond the normal course of nature; differing from the natural.”

because they engage taxi drivers in conversation

at the Applebee’s salad bar.

If we could somehow convince these cocksucking douches to try and live like the people they’re criticizing, their argument goes to pieces, because no one who has lived on food stamps can possibly feel like they’re exploiting the system or living the good life at someone else’s expense. Of course, because they don’t have an ounce of courage or integrity in their slimy fleshsacks, it will never come to pass.

Fuck Reagan. Fuck Rand. Fuck Norquist, Gingrich, and whatever other retards I’m forgetting who made this kind of talk acceptable.

If we could somehow convince these cocksucking douches to try and live like the people they’re criticizing

Alas. You could as soon teach a pig La Traviata as you could instill the slightest breath of empathy in these turdsnorkles.

“there ought to be a stigma attached”

Right. Because there isn’t one already.

There ought to be a stigma attached to being an unenlightened malcontent screaming at clouds. Nice to see that the poor are the new black, and that oppressing teh gayz is so 2008.

If there is such a thing as a conservative without hate, let him/her step forward and dispute my claim that all conservatives are just hateful, stupid tools of the robber barons.

And just think, people, those are the e-mails he’s proud of. Or maybe those were just the only ones left after he sorted out the ones that didn’t directly make a threat on the president’s life.

OT: I’m moving to New Orleans in the morning. Boogity boogity.

Email #3 says that stigmas are good
STIGMATA.
Don’t make me put on my pedantry pants and come over there.

Please don’t come over here w/o some kind of pants on!

Veiled.

Off topic, bu who cares, right.

Four dead in coffee shop shooting.

If only those four would have been carrying guns, and been trained to use them, none of this disaster would have happened, right?

Aliens ‘already exist on earth’, Bulgarian scientists claim.

In these days of political soundness, however, it is considered more polite to call them “Finns”.

It’s a great time to be a sociopath. You don’t even have to hide it. You can be proud of your anti-social tendencies and frame your misanthropy as “reason”. You can actually say you want people in your country to starve to death and claim to be a Patriot at the same time.

I need to find somewhere to use this quote!

Ahh, stigmas. I guess not enough people commit suicide out of shame and desperation anymore.

I am a surgeon and deal with a lot of low income patients. I am interested in their perception of the public assistance they receive. By and large, the attitude seems to be that food stamps are their due, like earned income.

Uh yeah. Let’s take it as a given he is a surgeon. When the fuck would this conversation occur?

Surgeons (in my experience) don’t establish relationships with their patients the way a G.P. or F.P. does. They get a referral, give the patient a pre-surgery check, operate, drop by a few times in the hospital, provide post-surgery care (maybe) and good bye.

I’m not saying this guy absolutely isn’t a surgeon ‘cos there are some shithead doctors out there. I’m just saying he must have a really fucking slow practice if he has time to survey his patients about food stamps. (But not Medicaid, Medicare, &c. Hmmm.)

Two weeks AWOL, and I return to find the style police have given America’s Shittiest Website a brown border.

Apologies for the diversion, I will return to officially approved lurking™ asap.

I have to admit when the first post about this guy’s self-published novel appeared, I thought the whole thing was a little mean. I have friends who are horrible writers who have always dreamed of having a novel published and have had to go the self-publishing route (for good reason) and I wouldn’t want anyone mocking their dreams – especially an entire snark infested website.
But now that we’ve grown to know this dickhead a little more, I say fuck him and his piece of shit novel.

Aliens ‘already exist on earth’

Waterbears? I KNEW IT!

In these days of political soundness, however, it is considered more polite to call them “Finns”.

*icy unblinking glare*

Surgeons (in my experience) don’t establish relationships with their patients the way a G.P. or F.P. does.

Depends on the surgery, Arky.

For example, one of the best rapports I’ve ever established with a doctor was after my cancer excision, when the plastic surgeon had to reconstruct my nose. The follow up was about a year, year and a half, and he and I had long conversations both before and after the surgeries.

I guess he felt he wanted to get a sense of who I was, how comfortable I was with scarring and if I’d be flexible about a changed appearance. My office visits with him were often longer than I’ve spent with my GP during my annual checkups.

But I take your point: many surgeons look at the patient as just another chance to screw up a success rate. I imagine that cutting someone up would instill the same feelings in me, to depersonalize as much as possible so I don’t think about whom I’m slicing open.

The lobster info is from an article by John Gibney, a historian with a PhD from Trinity College, Dublin, in which he discusses a documentary in which 2 other scholars of Irish history mention the lobster soup and give the recipe. The specific quote is: “It is sobering to learn that in the period 1841–51 the population of Waters’s home county of Roscommon dropped from 253,591 to 173,436, or that at the height of the potato famine the Mahon family of Strokestown House, who evicted 3,000 people in 1847, were still able to dine on lobster soup (the recipe was produced).” Doesn’t sound like any of these historians thought of it as a mark of solidarity with the people being evicted.

Tig,

In the 1700s, lobsters were considered poor people’s food in both the Colonies and homeland.

It got so bad that the indentured servant contract had to be altered to specifically limit lobster to three meals a week in the Colonies!

So it’s possible that the lobster soup was actually a step down from more elitist foods.

I know they were in N.E.(and even then the early pilgrims often starved while lobsters abounded nearby), but you’d think Irish historians would mention it if that were the case in Ireland rather than starkly contrasting it with the lot of the evicted. The only other mention I found of lobster use in Ireland during the Famine is of their being sold for income while the people ate seaweed.

Your link says they were “poor people’s food” in the colonies and they are also found in Ireland, but not as abundantly. It doesn’t say they were “poor people’s food” in Ireland.

Exactly, tigrismus.

I wonder if they were “middle-class” food in Ireland? ie the Mahons had cut back but were still doing a lot better than the folks they evicted.

Anyway, the larger point really is that even if the lobsters were the equivalent to scaling back to chicken from beef, they still were getting it every day when the evictees were probably giving serious consideration to eating dirt, so…

I can’t stand these wealthy spoiled mother fuckers! My family makes about $100/month too much for Food Stamps. We live in a Southern Red State, so that’s saying a lot. You have to be 198% below federal poverty level to get any kind of aid.
Two weeks out of ever fucking month, we live on peanut butter. No shit. For real. So this rich, white fat ass can bite me. My kids will not have ONE mother fucking gift to open on Christmas morning. We’ll be lucky to find a food bank that hasn’t run out of food.
My husband and I have worked all of our fucking lives. Now he had to take early Social Security Retirement so that we could pay our rent and not join the Tent City a few miles away.
Fuck Him and His fucking retard frat boy rethuglican’ts!
They can kiss my fat poor ass.
I wonder how they would like their kids not knowing where their next meal is coming from?

Tig, I’ve spent the past three hours…OK, I had lunch…lobster soup of course…but I couldn’t find support for my statement.

I remember hearing it on a TV show from England, and I’m wracking my brain trying to remember what show (I’m tempted to say it was “What We Learned From The Victorians/Stuarts/Tudors” but I can’t even find that show anymore).

Here’s a really interesting piece on fishing and the potato famine. Note especially the Trevelyan quote in relation to the Miller piece. I guess there have always been assholes with that attitude.

I remember my street kid friends – some had couches, some had jobs, but none had homes. Many were on food stamps, with cards that had a mark saying they could buy warm food from a grocery that provided it because they had no kitchen to cook it in.

Many groceries would still not sell to them, telling them they should just eat cold food and shut up.

Grr.

That’s a horrible piece, tigrismus. The key phrase is ‘they paid for fish with potatoes’. Without potatoes, how were they to pay for fish? Or pay their landowner the rents they owed for living in Ireland?

Duh. Capitalism doesn’t care if there’s abundant supply to let people starve.

Darn. I have a stigmatism. I just really can’t see any way out of it.

Yeah, it was pretty depressing. It also says many fishermen sold their boats and nets to pay their rents and other expenses, and then came the quote from Trevelyan, and similar from others, that the fishermen shouldn’t receive loans to redeem their gear to allow them to work for their living because it would make them dependent on welfare. Then I went and read something on Crooks and Liars about Wall Streeters buying themselves $200k watches because the government kept their companies afloat. What a fucked up world.

Note especially the Trevelyan quote in relation to the Miller piece. I guess there have always been assholes with that attitude.

Trevelyan is, justifiably, reviled to this day.

Any word on whether Stalkin’ Malkin has expressed shame over the stigma of getting taxpayer-subsidized health insurance?

My five-year-old son has no idea what I do for a living. As near as he can tell, I spend the bulk of my time in a basement office, staring at a computer screen, and occasionally talking on the phone or typing. He probably wonders why I don’t do something more interesting, such as play computer games, because that’s what he’d do.

So this self-published author whose novel is currently only selling because he’s part of the wingnut welfare network is doing work basically of no value whatsoever except in a tiny corner of the economy that, given a shift of the winds, would evaporate completely and leave him a pauper. He’s not a good writer, he doesn’t know anything that intelligent or curious people want to know, he’s doing nothing more than propagandistic hackwork for a wealthy master, and he’s sitting there from his perch of fucking righteousness sneering at people who take food stamps as if they’re somehow “gaming” the system.

Fuckpaste oughtta take a look in the mirror.

Yes. I’m a self-published author, too. I make money doing IT work at a large company and I’m worth every dime. Miller is a fucking barnacle waiting for the scraper.

Gawd that’s annoying. I clicked the link for the first time in my life on SadlyNo. Had to agree that trusting the shorter was the best thing. Because, as far as I can tell, Miller’s sum total contribution to that article was three sneering sentences of consdescension appended to the paragraph from the Times (I think). I believe that counts as plagarism.

My god it is so much worse than I thought. If Heartland America had any idea they were being snootily lectured about their lifestyle by some jackhole who plagarizes his work for a living and admittedly spends 90% of his time sitting with his goddamn worthless thumb up his fucking stupid ass, they’d go find his house and burn it down.

A social stigma is far from sufficient. Daily beatings from specially created squads of men would be much better. This also has the advantage of decreasing unemployment by requiring the creation of the squads.

Although since it is the Christmas season I suppose we could create work houses as an option.