Reefer Badness
Here’s a simple question. Suppose that the President issued a signing statement that he wouldn’t enforce a law. Suppose further that the law he wouldn’t enforce interfered with alleged states’ rights under the Tenth Amendment. Finally suppose that the unenforced law would represent a federal intrusion into the sacred relationship between doctor and patient in the best health care system in the world. A wingnut wet dream, no?
Well, it appears that whether or not wingnuts think this is a good thing depends on which President is involved and, as you might imagine, it follows the familiar pattern of Bush good, Obama bad. Witness leather daddy and creationist wingnut Wesley J. Smith from the Discovery Institute who took time off from his quest for evidence of dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden and posted this at America’s Shittiest Website™
It is subversive of the rule of law for a president to refuse to enforce the law, and particularly to announce that unenforcement will be administration policy. The correct answer to the medical-marijuana issue is for Congress to take it out of Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act (no legitimate medical use) and put it into a different schedule, which would allow the FDA to approve cannabis for prescribing, as is done with stronger drugs such as morphine and cocaine. Once presidents get to pick and choose which laws they will enforce, we have ceased to be a nation of laws.
Bush’s signing statements, you see, don’t count. States have rights to do only what wingnuts want them to do like secede from the United States of African America. And the doctor-patient relationship is sacred only as long as the doctor is pro-life, anti-reefer, hands out boner pills to erectile dysfunction caused by excessive snack food intake, and refuses to talk to elderly patients about end-of-life planning
Well, now, in fairness, Bush issued signing statements based on laws presented for his signature, whereas Obama is admitting he won’t enforce a stupid law already on the books, signed by a different president.
You know, sort of how Bush abnegated every single fucking treaty we’ve ever signed.
this guy is a full-of-shit jackass but it is a positive step in the direction of legalization of a drug that has killed nobody, to change the laws in further favor.of said goal
I think the photo above and its caption are, like, my favorite things EVAR.
I swear nothing makes me laugh harder than wingnuts getting all indignant about the rule of law.
“Once presidents get to pick and choose which laws they will enforce, we have ceased to be a nation of laws.”
And once presidents choose to violate or ignore the Constitution, no biggie of course.
“as is done with stronger drugs such as morphine and cocaine”
You can get a ‘scrip for fucking cocaine?
You know, I really wish there was a betting pool on these guys, because I would totally clean up.
“The correct answer to the medical-marijuana issue is for Congress to take it out of Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act (no legitimate medical use) and put it into a different schedule, which would allow the FDA to approve cannabis for prescribing, as is done with stronger drugs such as morphine and cocaine.”
He has actually got a point there. Doesn’t lessen the hypocrisy, but that would be the right thing to do.
I think the photo above and its caption are, like, my favorite things EVAR.
Who’s the wingnut on the right? Inquiring minds want to know.
He’s on the left?
The Ninth and Tenth Amendments still exist, thank God.
I do agree with the Drug Warriors that this is a step towards de-criminalizing pot. Unlike them, I think this is a very good thing.
Who’s the wingnut on the right? Inquiring minds want to know.
Don’t know, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen her naked.
(Probably NSFW).
59 Les,
Believe it or not, cocaine is a Schedule II drug, so theoretically you can.
It has a long history as a topical anesthetic, and its most recent primary use was to numb the eye for surgery.
You can get a ’scrip for fucking cocaine? – 59 Les Paul
Dunno if you can get a scrip for it per se, but — and I dunno if it’s still used this way — your friendly ophthalmologist may use it as a local anesthetic when she does eye surgery on you.
Who’s the wingnut on the right? Inquiring minds want to know.
Don’t know, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen her naked.
That bear is too anatomically correct to be an actual wingnut. I think she’s an ACORN agent provocateur.
oops … it seems actor212 beat me to the punch!
Your reasoning here, while perfectly sound, fails to take into account two vital salient points:
Merry-jew-wanna is teh devil’s plant & Obama is teh Auntie-Christ!
IRL, I’m deeply ashamed at how much easier it is to get a prescription for cannabis in the US than in Canada – & at the way our own anti-prohibitionist crowd is fucking the pooch. While it seems their American counterparts have used ballot-initiatives & the courts with growing success, they’ve been going with the radicalist/civil-disobedience schtick for ages & it’s obviously getting them nowhere … now I get to see a bunch of them camped out on the lawn next to the pretrial holding facility on my way to work – protesting the extradition of “political prisoner” Marc Emery for selling seeds to Americans by mail. They’re getting hassled by drunks & rednecks, freezing their asses off & accomplishing sweet fuck-all, other than probably alienating a lot of regular folks who are ambivalent about the issue … sucks when people you agree with do stupid shit to make their point.
It is rather ironic that you can get a scrip for coke as a Schedule II drug and be perfectly within your rights anywhere in the country, but pot is on the more restrictive Schedule I…
Shorter Wesley J. Smith — rule of Law for you, freedumb for me.
They should just make it totally legal and tax the shit out of it. It would go some distance to solving some of the financial mess we’re in, esp out here in Ahhhhnold’s Cal-leeee-fornia. Ahhnold is all in favor of this measure, and on this one point, the governator and I agree.
The whole thing with the criminalization of pot is that it’s made money for someone, so they don’t want it legit. If it’s legalized, the munnies will all go into someone else’s pocket – or, heh, up in smoke.
Same old, dif’rent day.
But still it’s fun to watch wingnuts get their panties inna bunch over this, along wid everything else these dayz.
The context to what jim said is probably also that every time Canada has even come close to legalising or decriminalising pot, the US government screams holy hell about cross-border pot smuggling and the compliant press goes out of its way to find the appropriately hardline quotations from various high-ranking bacon slices, which damps down any existing political will right quick. (We respect cops too much up here.) The current government is also so obsequious to the American right that we’re not going to make any progress (typed “prograss,” my Freudian slip is showing) on this until Harpo is out of office. Knowing him, if he thought he could get away with it, he’d make posession a capital offence.
This is the first time ever in the history of the Republic that the Justice Department has declined to actively enforce a federal law.
P.S. Plus legalizing pot *may* possibly help out with the frickin’ war on our Mexican border. It’s bad down there due to the drug cartels. I’m not some vast authority on this, but I do know some DEA-types, who, for better or worse, have informed me that the main problema down Mexico way is with pot, surprisingly, and not harder stuff.
These same DEA-types also feel that legalizing pot *might* cause some changes for the better in Mexico, which is really in a melt-down right now. Not a good thing to have a neighbor sliding into anarchy of the worst and most violent sort, methinks.
Actor212 and DAS, cocaine is also used as a topical anesthetic by ENT docs when they do sinus endoscopy. (Think colonoscopy, but stuffed up your nose…)
Having worked in a hospital, most nurses stations will have cocaine in the med cart. I saw it used the most for folks having a nose job of some kind. Anywhere around that area at the base of the nose and around the eyes is difficult to anesthetize. They just shove cocaine soaked gauze up your nose.
To be fair to this guy I think his proposal to move teh Marry Jane off of schedule I would be a great idea. But you just know that if Obama did that he would be bleating about “the rule of law” over that too.
If Obama came out against abortion the wing-nuts would be volunteering at abortion clinics the next day.
Damn!
Missed it by THAT much!
Cocaine is used as an anesthetic in eye and nose surgery.
But still it’s fun to watch wingnuts get their panties inna bunch over this
To be fair, a lot of nutz commentary has been quite favorable about this – even Malkin had some supportive words. I’m waiting for the counter-counterculture bozos to emerge from the woodwork, those are the potheads R teh SATAN clique… maybe they’re just concerned by the lack of outrage so far, the droughtrage, so to speak.
actor212: Well, cocaine is unambiguously a useful drug. The schedule a drug is in is based both on the risks of abuse and the existence of recognized medical uses.
The tricky thing with medical marijuana has been that it’s been applied to a pretty wide set of ailments. It also doesn’t help that it’s a raw substance with dozens of active ingredients, while cocaine is the kind of isolated drug that doctors like to use with a few very clearly defined recognized uses. (It also helps that those recognized uses are all inside the hospital, instead of as a prescription. No, your doctor wouldn’t get away with prescribing you cocaine.)
There’s a reason why drugs like Marinol exist — a lot of doctors are uncomfortable with marijuana as a drug because it’s not a single isolated substance with clinical trials for specific uses. Unfortunately, Marinol doesn’t seem to work as well as marijuana.
Noen, on an emergency cart it was probably there to stop nosebleeds because it is a powerful vasoconstrictor.
Ah, sweet California proposition 215! I have a scrip for Arthritis pain, but the dirty little secret of these medical marijuana laws is that people are able to get prescriptions for nothing at all…there are doctors set up to “diagnose” you for $100 bucks, and you can go get your “medicine” at any one of over 600 dispensaries in Los Angeles alone.
Frankly, somebody need to bite the bullet and legalize it. We all know it doesn’t hurt anyone.
I don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it yet, but cocaine is used for putting vegetables into sammiches.
If you all are interested, I can share a bit of information on how cocaine is used in certain medical procedures.
I think they should make it legal to have and grow but not to sell. Otherwise Philip Morris will make a killing on it.
This is merely setting enforcement priorities. This is done all the time.
Frankly, somebody need to bite the bullet and legalize it. We all know it doesn’t hurt anyone.
Yeah, pretty much EVERYBODY SMOKES WEED. EVERYBODY. Rednecks, urbanites, suburbanites…I predict legalization or at least decriminalization on a wide level within the next ten years.
He has actually got a point there. Doesn’t lessen the hypocrisy, but that would be the right thing to do.
True, except that this never happens. Lots of people across the political spectrum support legalization (at least for medicinal use), but Congress can’t bring themselves to do it for whatever reason.
To be fair, a lot of nutz commentary has been quite favorable about this – even Malkin had some supportive words.
Indeed. There’s a tranche of wingnuts–largely the same tranche that is not vehemently opposed to gay marriage–that simply doesn’t give much of a damn about pot and wishes that law-enforcement dollars could be spent in better ways. Hell, Buckley was like that, if memory serves.
I’m now waiting for Andy McCarthy, NRO’s favorite legal lunatic, to come on and hyperbolically condemn Obama’s move. He’s just stupid and hypocritical enough to do it.
That’s exactly what I predicted, back in 1970.
sucks when people you agree with do stupid shit to make their point.
Translate that into Latin and I think you have a workable motto for American lefties.
Besides, Jonah Goldberg would never allow anyone to anesthetize his eyes with cocaine that had so many vegetables in it.
“It is rather ironic that you can get a scrip for coke as a Schedule II drug and be perfectly within your rights anywhere in the country, but pot is on the more restrictive Schedule I…” – actor212
It does seem surprising. Someone must be making money on it, no?
I think they should make it legal to have and grow but not to sell. Otherwise Philip Morris will make a killing on it.
I can’t say I’m thrilled about the big corps getting into weed production, but it’s hard to imagine it would work out any other way in the U.S. – then again, since legalization is so unlikely in the first place, I’ll join you in that daydream.
Hell, Buckley was like that, if memory serves.
Not sure about Buckley, but Milton Friedman certainly was, and the glibertarians these days are pretty consistently pro-legalization.
Not sure there is as large a pro teh ghey marriage consensus… may have to do with the fact the Bible said nothing about pot-smoking, could explain why even some of the fundies aren’t fanatical about criminalization.
may have to do with the fact the Bible said nothing about pot-smoking – Ted the Slacker
I reckon some parts of the Talmud were written under the influence of the stuff. The Bible seems to have involved harder drugs in its composition, however.
OT, but I need some help.
I thought they first came for Rush? Or was it Sarah Palin? Or maybe the tea-baggers? You know, whilst there’s always a danger of wearing something out, in this case, there’s literally a real fucking problem with using this more than once.
The Bible seems to have involved harder drugs in its composition
Indeed, Revelations may just as well be called Fear and Loathing in the Promised Land.
What will be funny, if the US ever manages to extract the icicle it has collectively mistaken for a rectal thermometer on the subject of pot, is how it will be marketed. I agree that corporate giants like Phillip Morris (or possibly Seagrams) will see huuuuuge profit potential and immediately step in to start mass-producing it, so the price will shoot up, and the quality will nosedive, but what will the ads be like? Will it be like tobacco, restricted to magazines, or will there be huge billboards showing fashion models with bloodshot eyes? Will there be TV spots during sporting events, with wacky bud-light style antics, or will they target things like, MTV, the Sci-Fi Channel, or the Food Network?
I’d love to see Ralph Steadman illustrations of Revelations…
Indeed, Revelations may just as well be called Fear and Loathing in the Promised Land. – Ted the Slacker
Interestingly, one theory about Revelation is that it actually was an anti-Pauline screed (the Beast was Paul … as was the walrus) that was so confusing that people didn’t realize exactly what the take-home message was supposed to be and hence it ended up in the Christian Bible.
Steerpike, those commercials would seem like a perfect fit for the Food Network, what with the munchies and all… (Not that an upstanding citizen like myself would know ANYTHING about such things… Nope, not me.)
You know, whilst there’s always a danger of wearing something out, in this case, there’s literally a real fucking problem with using this more than once.
First they came for the Niemöller quote…
I agree that corporate giants like Phillip Morris (or possibly Seagrams) will see huuuuuge profit potential and immediately step in to start mass-producing it, so the price will shoot up, and the quality will nosedive
There would be mass production, I have no doubt of that, but I also think microgrowers would be as prevalent as microbreweries are, and home growing would perhaps be more widespread than home brewing.
Interestingly, one theory about Revelation is that it actually was an anti-Pauline screed (the Beast was Paul … as was the walrus) that was so confusing that people didn’t realize exactly what the take-home message was supposed to be and hence it ended up in the Christian Bible.
So Revelations is like the Colbert Report of the NT? Nice work, God.
Pajamöller’s Tale
First they came for communists, and we cheered!
Then they came for the socialists, and we cheered!
Then they came for the trade unionists, and we cheered!
Then they came for the Islamofascist hordes, and we cheered!
Then they came for any borwn folks that had slightly Islamic sounding names, and we cheered!
Then they came for the remaining brown folks, especially the dirty messican illegals, and we cheered!
Then they came for Teh Ghey, and we cheered!
Then they came for single mothers, and we cheered!
Then they came for women with jobs, and we cheered!
Then they came for everyone who ever voted Democratic, and we cheered!
Then they came for anybody Roger Simon didn’t recognize on sight as a good conservative, and we cheered!
WOLVERINES!!!!!
Who’s the wingnut on the right?
Ahem.
Wait a minute, stop. The rule is, if you’re a creationist, you don’t get to rail against pot. I mean, god made it, right? Who are we to say anything bad about god’s holy inscrutabilitiness?
I’d love to see Ralph Steadman illustrations of Revelations…
Speaking of which, has anyone seen R. Crumb’s Genesis?
http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/09/18/an-excerpt-from-the-book-of-genesis-illustrated-by-r-crumb/
That bear is too anatomically correct to be an actual wingnut.
The bits are pretty far north.
Wesley J Smith responds:
followed by
IOW, OMG! Slippery slope! Slippery slope! Past precedents don’t count! Slippery slope! OMG!
That’s exactly what I predicted, back in 1970.
*sigh* A girl can dream, can’t she?
Have you never heard the “Jesus drank grape juice” line?
Also!Also!
Pajamamoller’s Tale
First they came for
RushSarahCarrieOrlymeUh, hello? Where’s my holocaust memorial statue?
[In advance, FYWP.]
I’m in a minority of the minority on the pot issue. I wish the push wasn’t “it’s harmless/and or good for you”, but rather “Who gives a shit? Don’t like it, don’t smoke it!”
We have countless products on supermarket and hardware store shelves that are no-kidding-this-shit-will-fuck-you-up poisonous, and we are allowed to sell them without a prescription, or an armed guard, or whatever. Tylenol can kill you if you take a small integer multiple of the recommended dosage.
Some of this toxic shit is even used as drugs. There was a story recently about some native kids in the Davis Inlet (northern Canada community) who got in trouble huffing gasoline and other industrial solvents. When I was a kid, one of the other kids in my neighbourhood died after an incident involving huffing Pam cooking spray. The problem isn’t the drugs, it’s the miserable kids who’ll take anything to get high.
By all means, regulate its purity, tax the hell out of it, don’t let them sell it to kids under 18, don’t let them advertise it in Archie Comix, or on the back of a Cheetos bag. But I don’t think we have to first show pot is “safe”, in order for it to be legal.
(Full disclosure: never tried it, never wanted to.)
cocaine is also used as a topical anesthetic by ENT docs when they do sinus endoscopy
See, now if they let me snort before they do a colonoscopy, I’d get one done every motherfucking month…
Dragon-King Wangchuck said,
October 20, 2009 at 19:49 (kill)
Wesley J Smith responds…
Is it just me, but does this guy use 10 words where two will suffice? Reading that “Corner” post was nearly as taxing as slogging through The Fountainhead….
That bear is too anatomically correct to be an actual wingnut.
The bits are pretty far north.
I didn’t say it was correct, just to correct to be a wingnut. I imagine their bits being turned 90 degrees and possibly located off-center.
“too,” too.
Once enforcement exemptions are applied in one area of the law, what’s to stop them from being applied in another?
[Clutches pearls] Why, if we let the president get away with not enforcing marijuana laws, the next thing you know we might have federal agents torturing their prisoners, and nobody willing to prosecute them for it!
What would become of the Rule of Law, then?
Speaking as a marketing professional, a marijuana ad on the back of a Cheetos bag is a slam-dunk. And a Cheetos ad on a box of spliffs? That is as close to perfect synergy one could achieve without earning a kind of capitalist Bodhisattva status….
I imagine their bits being turned 90 degrees and possibly located off-center.
I like to pretend that they’re as smooth as Barbie/Ken dolls down there and their children are brought by a stork. Come to think of it, that’s probably the way they prefer to think of reproduction, too.
Liberals and their sissy ballet drag.
Liberals and their sissy ballet drag.
I tried to buy macho biker ballet drag, but the shopkeeper pointed at me and laughed.
Oh, and sorry to spam post, but could you guys stop talking about wingnut genitalia? I just ate….
iI like to pretend that they’re as smooth as Barbie/Ken dolls down there and their children are brought by
a storkan SUV.fiqqst.
Speaking as a marketing professional, a marijuana ad on the back of a Cheetos bag is a slam-dunk. And a Cheetos ad on a box of spliffs? That is as close to perfect synergy one could achieve without earning a kind of capitalist Bodhisattva status….
I’ve always said that stoners make brilliant junk food marketers. Where do you think the idea for the KFC Double Down came from?
alleged states’ rights
Dragon King 19:25
Win. Also.
First they came for my edition of Bartletts Annotated Quotes…
What would become of the Rule of Law, then?
Yeah, the slippery slope argument is total fucking bullshit, but the amusing part – to me at least – is the added hypocrisy of making the argument immediately after dismissing past precedents.
IOW,this specific case must be decided on current conditions and the “threat” of future abuse. You see, you have to apply very selective criteria here, because in the future, this may form the basis of a much looser set of criteria.
I like to pretend that they’re as smooth as Barbie/Ken dolls down there
That smoothness hasn’t stopped generations of kids from posing their Barbie and Ken dolls in interesting positions soon after said kids have woken up too early and “I saw Mommy helping Daddy do his push ups … and they were naked … hee hee”
Police enforcing every law is a kinda union-like work-to-rule thing.
Other than basic ol’ puritianism regarding anything fun, there’s a lot of racism in the old drug laws. The yellow, brown and black folks’ drugs – opium, reefer and cocaine. Of course a lot of that was plain old hate mongering.
Even some good old Muslim hatin’ figured into it. Witness Harry Anslinger, first Commissioner of the Treasury Department’s Federal Bureau of Narcotics, in Congressional testimony in 1937
Those who are habitually accustomed to use of the drug are said to develop a delirious rage after its administration, during which they are temporarily, at least, irresponsible and liable to commit violent crimes. The prolonged use of this narcotic is said to produce mental deterioration. It apparently releases inhibitions of an antisocial nature which dwell within the individual.
It is said that the Mohammedan leaders, opposing the Crusaders, utilized the services of individuals addicted to the use of hashish for secret murders.
Yeah boy howdy, them roving hippies are some violent murdering cats.
And from that same address The Marihuana Tax Act of 1937,
Referring to table II, we find then that Colorado reports that the Mexican population there cultivates on an average of 2 to 3 tons of the weed annually. This the Mexicans make into cigarettes, which they sell at two for 25 cents, mostly to white high school students. Strangely enough, it has been noted that when this weed is grown at altitudes considerably higher than sea level, it is much more potent. Colorado, a state that has an average altitude than sea level (sic), can therefore grow a plant that is much more powerful than one grown in Louisiana
Those Mexicans and their wacky tabaccy.
Link fail The Marihuana Tax Act of 1937
Anslinger was one sorry son of a bitch.
Liberals and their sissy ballet drag.
Traînement de jambe en votre cul si loin qu’elle se casse is a favorite.
Pajamöller’s Tale
Bravo!!! You left out the last line:
“Then they came for the Rinos and we cheered.
Then they….hey get your hands offa me!”
Speaking of eating their own, did anyone see the story about the dust-up between my favorite RW jerk, John Zeigler, and Keene at the CPAC thing?
Yeah, there are three videos to that. HuffPo has the middle one. In #3 you get to see Ziegler receive a hostile crowd response when he storms the stage to grab the mic.
http://mbouffant.blogspot.com/2009/10/john-ziegler-helps-consevative-movement.html
I actually have a hard time watching videos with John Ziegler in them. A still shot is bad enough, but a video gives me the uncontrollable desire to slap his face. I just can’t take the disappointment from not being able to satisfy that urge, so I don’t watch him.
I’m pretty sure that the Prez and his AG get to decide which crimes should have priority in terms of devoting resources for investigation and prosecution; hence, the previous administration’s War on Porn.
The Discovery Institute and its denizens will forever be a stain on the reputation of Washington State.
Even better, we’re about to elect Susan Hutchison, a former BOD member for DI, as King County Executive.
Hooray, maybe she can get a balanced budget Intelligently Designed.
Sigh. Some days I truly despair.
I’d love to see Ralph Steadman illustrations of Revelations…
Is Durer NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?
See, now if they let me snort before they do a colonoscopy, I’d get one done every motherfucking month…
Sounds like you are not hanging out at the appropriate bars.
He is no less obnoxious in these, but he has a deserving target. Sow the zag, then reap the Zig!
I had one of those break once so NO THANK YOU.
I think they should make it legal to have and grow but not to sell. Otherwise Philip Morris will make a killing on it.
Right. Its use should be limited to those who have a place large enough for a garden or a grow room, not to mention the time, equipment, and expertise. Sort of like how only home brewers should be allowed to drink beer.
So all of us who don’t have the resources or knowlege or time or space to grow our own will continue to illegally buy illegally grown weed from people who will continue to illegally sell- and cops will continue to pour money at busting growers, sellers, and users. This changes what, exactly?
Either it’s legal or it’s not, for everybody.
I’ll give credit for the anti-corporate sentiment, but failure to think it through earns demerits. Sorry.
As for how it would be produced, distributed and marketed, sure the big corps will jump in, including the breweries, distillers, and big-agra as well as the tobacco corps, and their mass-produced brands will be crap, but there will always be a market for quality, just like any other product.
Just sayin’, I can’t see Phillip Morris, Seagrams, and ADL being the ONLY producers of legal pot. Hell, there’s a well-established conneseur’s market for high-quality weed from small, exclusive, expensive producers now. Why would that change?
As long as the licensing requirements aren’t too onerous (not exclusively doled out to the big corps) then I can envision an explosion of small producers nationwide competing on quality and flavor even bigger than the boom in microbreweries and gourmet coffeeshops.
I can also see this combining with organic farming to produce a reliable cash crop for currently-struggling small farmers. Good weed could effectively subsidize good food.
Oh yeah, and amazing tax revenue. And a serious cooling effect on the hot war in Mexico.
Oh, and not putting millions of otherwise law-abiding citizens in prison.
Also that bear looks like a feckin’ Harley rider.
Oh yeah, and amazing tax revenue
That right there is why pot will be sold by Phillip Morris or Anheiser Busch.
The gubmint will make the licensing fee (and tax) so high that no one will be able to ante up the front money except for multinationals. Once they own the market, other barriers to production will be put up.
Not saying there won’t be microgrowers, but let’s face facts: microbreweries didn’t hit it big until the means of distribution, wholesalers, gravitated out of the hands of the beer titans.
See, now if they let me snort before they do a colonoscopy, I’d get one done every motherfucking month…
Butt snort, maybe; can you fart in?
As long as the licensing requirements aren’t too onerous (not exclusively doled out to the big corps) then I can envision an explosion of small producers nationwide competing on quality and flavor even bigger than the boom in microbreweries and gourmet coffeeshops.
They already do. My favorite dispensary in LA, besides having a live jazz trio and shiny, fifties-looking display cases, has different strains and grades of “medicine”, starting at about $25 an eighth and progressing up in taste, consistency of smoke, and specificity of effect to about $100 an eighth or more. Add to that the medicinal lemonade, chocolate, cookies, lollipops, butter for cooking, and the varying grades of hash they sell and you have an example of the free-market at its finest.
As a regular user, I say let everyone have it and tax that shit. It’s the American way, people. Plus, wouldn’t you rather deal with the stoned than the drunk? It’s a no-brainer.
“can you fart in?”
Can’t you?
What is the means of distribution that is most likely for legal pot though? I would imagine the simplest and most likely method is through existing premises licensed to sell alcohol. The infrastructure already exists for the distribution of gourmet weed.
I think the biggest challenge faced by small growers will be security. Pot will be highly taxed, and until bigger companies drive prices down, a good weed crop will be a very tempting theft target.
Remember though.. the existing tobacco lobby is very powerful. If they put their minds to getting pot legalised so they can make some money, they will be able to exert a lot of influence on congress. They will be able to do more than DFHs can.
But eventually, legal weed means cheap weed. Even with a huge tax, supply and demand will drive prices down. All but the very best stuff will be grown outdoors, which is a lot cheaper than doing it in a dark attic. The difficulties in distributing an illegal product also drive its price up a lot.
Things will go a lot easier if Canada, the US, and Mexico have some sort of informal arrangement to change their drug laws simultaneously and to keep tax levels very similar, to discourage smuggling.
Even if you WANT to keep the corporations from selling shitty weed.. There is still a market for shitty weed. After all, there is a market for Budweiser, and other “love in a canoe” beverages.
What is the means of distribution that is most likely for legal pot though?
Pharmacies, a la the way they sell meth ingredients like Claritin or Sudafed.
Hey, and once production is legal, farmers will be able to exploit the crop for all its other amazing benefits–everything from sturdy cloth, rot-resistent rope and cord to biodegradable fiberglass and alternative fuels. Cannabis truly is a miracle plant. It has so many awesome, practical, Earth-friendly applications, the fact that is provides the user with a nice, mellow buzz is just the icing on the cake.
The thing is, an extensive cultivation and distribution network already exists, and has been reaping the benifits of the “grey” market for years now. My prediction is that all of a sudden the monied hippies that have been making bank on this stuff anyway will suddenly find themselves the heads of legal enterprises- which the big boys will co-opt with varying degress of success.
The cow is way out of the barn on this one.
This is exactly the way we now exploit all the varied things you can do with a peanut!
I imagine that agribusinesses will avoid some of the security hassles, and kill 2 birds with one stone by growing massive quantities of low grade crap, mechanically harvesting it, then removing the THC as the rest of the plant is pulped into hemp fibres. Then the two products get sold off separately. There will be a market for processed food and drinks with some THC sprayed onto it.
I mean, imagine THC enhanced cheetos. There MUST be a market for that.
As for the point of sale.. I think that legal medicinal weed will come YEARS before complete legalisation, so there may already be a complete infrastructure in place by the time legalisation comes, but it wont be enough to satisfy the spike in demand. Liquor stores etc will definitely want to get in on the action.
My prediction is that all of a sudden the monied hippies that have been making bank on this stuff anyway will suddenly find themselves the heads of legal enterprises- which the big boys will co-opt with varying degress of success.
Essentially this happened after Prohibition was repealed and also created the Kennedy dynasty.
Also.
I mean, imagine THC enhanced cheetos.
Now With More Paraquat!
I mean, imagine THC enhanced cheetos. There MUST be a market for that.
Talk about a wingnut dilemma!
I can guaran-damn-tee you one thing: If Obama does actually get a movement in this country that sees the legalization of marijuana by the end of his first term, he’s guaranteed his re-election.
Assuming we all remember to vote, duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude…
OT but I thought you might all appreciate this quote:
“God in his wisdom has provided man with natural forks – his fingers. Therefore it is an insult to Him to substitute artificial metallic forks for them when eating.”[Giblin]
Next time a wingnut talks about something being “unnatural” and contrary to the will of God, find out if s/he uses a fork whilst eating.
Anyhoo, as to the topic at hand, sort of —
This is exactly the way we now exploit all the varied things you can do with a peanut! – Substance McGravitas
Many of which varied things are illegal in the sorts of Southern States in which peanuts are grown 😉
This is exactly the way we now exploit all the varied things you can do with a peanut! – Substance McGravitas
Many of which varied things are illegal in the sorts of Southern States in which peanuts are grown 😉
Kin ye make whuskey wit et?
cheetos are not the ideal stoner food, for there exists a bag o’ junk food called “munchies”. and it is good.
I made you a link to “Reefer Madness” [a live version] but WP eated it.
“Many of which varied things are illegal in the sorts of Southern States in which peanuts are grown”
Interest, newsletter, etc. etc.
I think the likely route is for legalisation of medicinal marijuana, followed by de-criminalising possession without a prescription. This will basically make pot legal for anyone motivated enough to get a bent prescription, and existing dealers will just become resellers to those too lazy or unlucky to get hold of a prescription.
The other benefit of legalising pot.. It means a lot of stoners, dealers, and other unemployable people suddenly possess a job skill which is in demand! There will be lots of jobs in farming, processing, and sales where a good knowledge of bud will be an important skill. That will definitely be a good thing for the economy.
You can play a phonograph record with a peanut, but you cannot play a phonograph record with a marijuana leaf.
Assuming we all remember to vote, duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude…
“Oh man! I can’t believe we spaced on the date!”
cheetos are not the ideal stoner food, for there exists a bag o’ junk food called “munchies”. and it is good.
Anything that mixes various junkfood media is the best way to go, I’ve discovered.
You can play a phonograph record with a peanut, but you cannot play a phonograph record with a marijuana leaf.
…but does smoking a peanut make you want to watch Heavy Metal and eat cheese on Ritz crackers topped with a little dab of ranch dressing? That’s the salient point.
…but does smoking a peanut make you want to watch Heavy Metal and eat cheese on Ritz crackers topped with a little dab of ranch dressing? That’s the salient point.
What’s all this about smoking penis?
Wow, I’ve got so much to say:
The thing is, an extensive cultivation and distribution network already exists, and has been reaping the benifits of the “grey” market for years now. My prediction is that all of a sudden the monied hippies that have been making bank on this stuff anyway will suddenly find themselves the heads of legal enterprises- which the big boys will co-opt with varying degress of success.
Bingo. Given the glacial pace of decriminilzation, cultivation and distribution will remain gray for a long period of time. It’s possible Philip Morris will try to break in at some point, but these guys have the inside track.
What is the means of distribution that is most likely for legal pot though? I would imagine the simplest and most likely method is through existing premises licensed to sell alcohol. The infrastructure already exists for the distribution of gourmet weed.
No, this is exactly what won’t happen. Liquor boards don’t need another variable in licensing. Communities don’t need another vice thrown in the mix. Stoners don’t need crowded rooms with loud, shitty music. Marijuana distributors will be single-entity businesses, as the dispensaries are now in CA. At most, they’ll create a comfortable environment for people to blaze in….however, unlike w/ alcohol sales, there’s no margin in letting people sit around for hours to consume a purchase they’ve already made. So even the most hospitable spots will push people out after an hour at most, and likely close before 10 (which will help with community relations). Now, some bars may allow smoking, a la Zeitgeist in SF, but neither the authorities nor the alcohol-peddlers have an interest in seeing the stuff consumed en masse.
But eventually, legal weed means cheap weed. Even with a huge tax, supply and demand will drive prices down. All but the very best stuff will be grown outdoors, which is a lot cheaper than doing it in a dark attic. The difficulties in distributing an illegal product also drive its price up a lot.
Totally disagree. Pot’s been effectively legal in Cali for ten years and I can assure you it’s no cheaper than in other states. The market has set the price (roughly 15/50/300 on the consumer end, with some variation) and that price will hold. Scarcity isn’t really an issue in determining it.
It also doesn’t help that it’s a raw substance with dozens of active ingredients…..There’s a reason why drugs like Marinol exist — a lot of doctors are uncomfortable with marijuana as a drug because it’s not a single isolated substance with clinical trials for specific uses. Unfortunately, Marinol doesn’t seem to work as well as marijuana.
Yeah, that’s because Marinol is synthetic THC. THC is the chemical that gets you high, so it can provide some analgesic effect. But there are two types of cannaboid receptors: one in the brain, and one in the immune system. THC primarily binds with the first (which is why it gets you high). Cannabidiol (which is what THC decays into under normal conditions) binds with the second, which produces more objective therapeutic results.
The dozens of active ingredients are a feature, not a bug.
Speaking as a marketing professional, a marijuana ad on the back of a Cheetos bag is a slam-dunk. And a Cheetos ad on a box of spliffs? That is as close to perfect synergy one could achieve without earning a kind of capitalist Bodhisattva status….
My name is Peggy Olson, and I’d like to smoke some marijuana.
And after going off on his earlier post, I totally agree with Sockpuppet #47 @ 22:15….
Oh, and one last thing…I’m not clicking thru, but based on that excerpt Wesley Smith is 100% right: Marijuana NEEDS to be moved off of Schedule I. I mean, it’s nice that the President has decided not to override my state’s laws and prosecute me….today….but I’d like a firmer protection against the security forces of the state than the Preznit’s good will.
I’m not sure what the big objection is – beyond the “You had no problem when Bush did it” that shouldn’t really shock you coming from a creationist anti-science fraud.
That said, it would be great to see the Discovery Institute hop on the legalization bandwagon and really put it’s time and energy to good use, lobbying Congress to amend the law and officially decriminalize marijuana use.
But I’m really confused on how medical marijuana state-based legalization even works. If there is no federal crime against the drug, it’s confusing to see the DEA bust someone not violating a federal law. If pot possession / sale is a Federal Crime, than this is a genuine Constitutional Crisis that needs to be sorted out via the SCOTUS. And if it’s illegal then – legally speaking – the President needs to send in the freak’n National Guard and shut marijuana in California down until they decide to make it legal.
But this nebulous semi-legalness is more nuts than the legalization / illegalization alone every would be.
“Oh man! I can’t believe we spaced on the date!”
“Fuck, I thought it was Super Wednesday.”
I agree with this, but I don’t think it’s an election-winner right now. As more states get sensible maybe it will be. There may be poll data out there to prove me wrong. Hope so.
Scythia:
I mean places licensed to sell alcohol for consumption OFF the premises will be the natural place to sell weed, especially pre-packaged products. The kind of shops where you can already buy good beer and wine often sell cigars and quality tobacco too. Extending the business to cover the hemp cigars is quite logical.
After all, the existing anti-smoking laws will be applied to smoking pot too, so consumption in pubs and bars will likely be difficult to licence. Some shisha bars may spring up, which make most of their money from selling munchies and drinks, but I still think 99% of sales will be for consumption elsewhere.
It’s possible Philip Morris will try to break in at some point, but these guys have the inside track.
Totally disagree. Phillip Morris has a lot more clout, a lot more marketing muscle and a LOT more political influence than the Ben-N-Jerry growers of the west.
Sorry, by the time the corporately-funded gubmint gets thru with decriminalized pot, it’s going to be taxed, marketed and cornered just the way liquor and tobacco are, pipe-dreams (intended) notwithstanding.
IF the US goes the way of the Netherlands and prohibits the lare-scale production of marijuana or the way of Spain and encourages small, home farming (both really, really unlikely, given our history and culture), then possibly this scenario would stand a chance.
If Obama does actually get a movement in this country that sees the legalization of marijuana by the end of his first term, he’s guaranteed his re-election.
Sorry; not gonna happen. No Democratic President in our lifetime would dare propose legalization, lest he be tarred with the draft-dodging pot-smoking dirty-filthy-hippie scarlet letter the Right likes to reserve for these types of occasions.
No, if it’s going to happen at all, it would probably have to come from a Ron Paul libertarian-type who isn’t going to drive his allies into apoplexy with the very suggestion. (And we all know how politically viable the social libertarians are on the Republican side of the aisle…)
What is the means of distribution that is most likely for legal pot though?
In Los Angeles, it is distributed through “dispensaries” disguised as auto shops, usually located near the local bar.
I mean places licensed to sell alcohol for consumption OFF the premises will be the natural place to sell weed, especially pre-packaged products. The kind of shops where you can already buy good beer and wine often sell cigars and quality tobacco too. Extending the business to cover the hemp cigars is quite logical.
Not really. I still think it will more likely be sold at pharmacies.
Liquor and tobacco were perfectly legal before the government got into the business of regulation. To have forced undue burden on citizens for something they were perfectly able to do easily prior to regulation would have raised hackles.
But to take a non-existent market (read: illegal) and work it from the ground up, I can see picture IDs, signatures, records audited by state, local and Federal governments, and a basic discouragement of any large scale purchases at all.
Am I the only person who actually buys allergy medication????? I can’t be.
OK so tell me again why alcohol and tobacco are legal and Mary-jane isn’t? “Potential for abuse” give me a fucking break!!! Tell me how many peops have died consuming the first two drugs compared wiith how many after using the latter? AND MJ does have proven medical benefits! I think tha shit is just another example of racist bulllshit, cause who uses it most? You do the racial profiling.
Totally disagree. Phillip Morris has a lot more clout, a lot more marketing muscle and a LOT more political influence than the Ben-N-Jerry growers of the west.
You underestimate the laziness of your average large corporation. I work for a HUGE entertainment company, so I’ve seen acquisitions first-hand. What would happen is Phillip Morris would find a “Ben-N-Jerry” grower (I love that term, by the way), and simply buy him off and take over operation of the concern. Which might affect the quality of the weed, but wouldn’t necessarily. Look at Disney and Pixar, for example. That acquisition has actually had the effect of increasing the quality of Disney Feature Animation productions (I’d take Bolt over Meet the Robinsons anytime).
White kids?
Oh, and not putting millions of otherwise law-abiding citizens in prison.
The cost savings associated with this alone could be tremendous. And the easing of the burden on cops, courts and prisons might actually have a positive effect on all three institutions.
Duuude.
Sorry, by the time the corporately-funded gubmint gets thru with decriminalized pot, it’s going to be taxed, marketed and cornered just the way liquor and tobacco are, pipe-dreams (intended) notwithstanding.
Right, but that’s the whole point. It’s going to be decades before full legalization, and if it happens at all, it’s going to happen erratically and unevenly.
You have people right now in California who have been growing marijuana on a large scale for decades. They’re operating with the implicit (and some cases, explicit) support of local government and the consent of the state. Now that the DEA is no longer going to be threatening to bust them, they’re going to get larger, better, and more organized.
So by the time North Carolina legalizes (not “decriminalizes” — no major, publicly-traded corporation is going to visibly invest tens of millions into a product that’s technically illegal), the Cali growers are going to have a fifty-year head start. That’s enough time to consolidate into an industry. If PM and the other tobacco companies decide to join, they’re going to be coming late, and probably wind up hiring/buying/investing in the pre-existing growers.
Totally disagree. Phillip Morris has a lot more clout, a lot more marketing muscle and a LOT more political influence than the Ben-N-Jerry growers of the west.
White upper-middle-class marketing professionals?
Oops, meant to cut-and-paste:
I think tha shit is just another example of racist bulllshit, cause who uses it most?
See, then my funny works. Sort of.
Shit SM you know the cultural stereotype as well as I do! And why am I so angry–can’t find no damn weed!!!
The pot in california is all from relatively small growers right? Believe me, once Phillip Morris etc get in on the act, prices WILL drop.
Demand will see a massive spike too. I know I would smoke up more often If I had a legal, reliable and safe supply. The big corporations will move in to satisfy that expanding market.
However, it is quite likely the government will decide to jack up the taxes as high as necessary to keep the price of pot from falling too much, just as they do with tobacco.
Shitty beer sells well. So will shitty weed. But only there will only be a small overlap between the market for mass produced and high quality. As with alcohol, people will decide on their prefered end of the market, and won’t deviate too much from it.
Well, the control of it certainly got off the ground with racism, but anyone with eyes – and a nose – knows it’s everywhere.
I suspect one of the reasons it hasn’t been legalized is that it would be extremely difficult to control the market. Cannabis is, literally, a weed: it is ridiculously easy to grow, and thrives in almost any climate. Read like 1 book, and you can learn how to cultivate for potency that would rival anything a big company could produce. Compare this to alcohol distillation and brewing. Sure, it’s not that difficult, but compared to throwing some seeds in the dirt and watering it occasionally, producing quality, safe and good-tasting alcohol is something relatively few people care to take on–especially distilling strong spirits.
I mean places licensed to sell alcohol for consumption OFF the premises will be the natural place to sell weed, especially pre-packaged products. The kind of shops where you can already buy good beer and wine often sell cigars and quality tobacco too. Extending the business to cover the hemp cigars is quite logical.
I just don’t see any kind of control board making decisions that result in a need for another specialized kind of enforcement. I think commercial pot sales will be limited to marijuana-only dispensaries, which are easier to regulate and monitor. Plus, think of how many liquor stores there are. Government can at least hypothetically limit the number and location of dispensaries.
But to take a non-existent market (read: illegal) and work it from the ground up, I can see picture IDs, signatures, records audited by state, local and Federal governments, and a basic discouragement of any large scale purchases at all.
Well, first of all, illegal != non-existent. The fact that there’s already a black market means most of the distribution networks on already in place.
The rest of what you’re describing sounds similar to the situation California already has in place. Shamefully, I don’t know exactly how exactly how much influence the state has in the prescription/licensing process, but my impression was that to see the status of an individual they need a court order.
Am I the only person who actually buys allergy medication????? I can’t be.
Nah, man, I don’t use pills to medicate, I smoke weed.
I dunno about that Steerpike. I have never found brewing all that difficult, but I can’t even keep a pot of Basil alive.
As with buying commercial beer instead of a friends home brew, you are paying for a guarantee of a certain standard of quality. You know that a particular brand will be of a certain type, and a certain quality.
Thing is.. The tobacco industry is dying. Fewer and fewer people smoke. More and more legal restrictions are being brought in against smoking in public places, and tobacco advertising. Weed could save the tobacco industry. Once they figure this out, they could become VERY powerful advocates of legalisation. They are already an extremely powerful lobby.
Cannabis is, literally, a weed: it is ridiculously easy to grow, and thrives in almost any climate. Read like 1 book, and you can learn how to cultivate for potency that would rival anything a big company could produce. Compare this to alcohol distillation and brewing. Sure, it’s not that difficult, but compared to throwing some seeds in the dirt and watering it occasionally, producing quality, safe and good-tasting alcohol is something relatively few people care to take on–especially distilling strong spirits.
This is fucking ridiculous. Growing cannabis is very much like brewing alcohol in this respect. Anyone can do it, but it takes time and skill to do it well. It’d be easier and quicker to make a batch of high-octane moonshine than grow highly-potent chronic.
Right, but that’s the whole point. It’s going to be decades before full legalization, and if it happens at all, it’s going to happen erratically and unevenly.
And lonnnnnng before it happens, Phillip Morris (or whomever…could even be Pfizer and that lot) will have locked up every single grower it can get its hands on. I’d wager they already have feelers out, if they haven’t bought up land outright.
I base this statement on the fact that in countries were marijuana growing is either all-but-legal or where law enforcement is so lax as to be non-existent (e.g. Mexico, Colombia), large drug cartels exist to perform the function of wholesale growing.
It doesn’t take a genius to see a) the Feds are going to be terrified of introducing that kind of element to America and b) there’s enormous profit in a crop that sells for hundreds of dollars per ounce.
Yea, we’re talking corporate ownership.
The pot in california is all from relatively small growers right?
No. This is big business out here. It just exists out of sight.
Legal restictions obviously prohibit the consolidation that corporate farming can bring, but make no mistake, there are people doing this by the acre, and controlling more than just one property.
Fewer and fewer people smoke. More and more legal restrictions are being brought in against smoking in public places, and tobacco advertising. Weed could save the tobacco industry
I hadn’t even considered the culture that has us banning cigarettes left and right, even (in some places) outdoors. How are you going to straight-faced claim a cigarettes second hand smoke kills, but not a joint?
One more reason to believe the market will be tightly regulated and therefore left to large producers: the drug delivery system will have to change.
I hear you steerpike but wait tobacco is a ‘weed’ too, all you gotta do is throw somes seeds in tha dirt to produce it. So why would that be so much harder to control than marijuana? And SM that’s disingenuous man, the cultural–read racial–factors are the only reason that pot’s illegal and you know it. Name me another one.
I base this statement on the fact that in countries were marijuana growing is either all-but-legal or where law enforcement is so lax as to be non-existent (e.g. Mexico, Colombia), large drug cartels exist to perform the function of wholesale growing.
Yeah. This is the case in California too. That’s what I’m saying: there are already major players in the game. They’re raking in substantial cash and reinvesting in their product. Some junior VP’s brilliant idea in 2030 isn’t going to be enough to displace them.
It doesn’t take a genius to see a) the Feds are going to be terrified of introducing that kind of element to America
LOL. Have you met my friend Rick Ross? Gary Webb can introduce you.
It’s fun and fucks you up. Acid is illegal too and that’s not a race thing.
Name me another one.
There’s always the economic conspiracy angle. Type “William Randolph Hearst” in your browser with the word “marijuana” and see what comes up. Couple that with the prison-industrial complex and you have a set of reasons that have a lot more to do with economics than they do racism, though I agree racism has been used to support the ban on pot.
Shitty beer sells well. So will shitty weed.
Case in counterpoint: when I moved from a state where weed was illegal to Cali, the availability of schwag dropped to zero. ZERO. All you could (can) find is high-grade. I knew people who were shipping ditch weed in from other states just so they’d have something less potent.
What would happen is Phillip Morris would find a “Ben-N-Jerry” grower (I love that term, by the way), and simply buy him off and take over operation of the concern.
My impression from Amsterdam a few months ago is that the coffee shops are going along that path, sourcing their cakes from a few central suppliers (cellophane-packed and unconcerned about culinary values) rather than from small-scale, amateurish home-cooking. No systematic research, however. The Europe-based Sadlynauts might have more useful information.
Acid is illegal too and that’s not a race thing.
No, that’s just just a product of late-sixties hysterical reactionary politics. Toooootally different.
Hypocrisy aside, the wingnut is right
Tools required for MJ cultivation: basic gardening equipment, decent seeds, marginally arable land, water, a quick google search for articles on M/F identification, cultivation tips, etc.
Tools required for beer/wine making: expensive apparatus from a specialty outlet, cositn–what would you need for a passable starter setup to produce, say, a few bottles/month? $300? $500, $1500? Plus, bottling equipment, suitable rooms/structures for production, fermentation, storage…
Tools required for (reasonably drinkable) distilled alcohol production: add “dangerous” to the list above, multiply the cost by probably 10. Plus a much more thorough understanding of chemistry.
On the other hand, I know people who have produced extremely potent weed with little more than tools on hand, and no real expertise. It’s so easy, a stoned caveman could do it!
It’s so easy, a stoned caveman could do it!
Or he could just walk a couple blocks to his local dispensary. What would you do?
“How are you going to straight-faced claim a cigarettes second hand smoke kills, but not a joint?”
You can’t, because it probably isn’t true. Most joints contain some quantity of tobacco anyway, and although some research has shown that pot smokers may have cancer rates lower than expected for their tobacco consumption, this is still very much questionable.
Then bear in mind that most marijuana products will contain some degree of tar or other lung blocking things, and that second hand highs are far more of a concern than with tobacco, then I think we can safely say that yes, smoking pot in public or in company will have the same, if not greater restrictions than tobacco.
None the less, it represents a big, new, and expanding market for the tobacco industry. But being highly regulated will NOT prevent smaller producers from taking a slice of the market. After all, this is true of currently legal recreational drugs.
The regulation that growers are subject to, will be inherited from the body of law already existing to regulate medicinal growers, where relatively small scale growers predominate.
Also, as the “medicinal” market makes way for a completely legal market, the concept of “small grower” will change. The market will expand so much that existing growers in california WILL look small. An acre is not a lot of land to a farmer.
The country banned alcohol only 40 years earlier, spurred by religious crazies who were anti-fun. No doubt they were pointing at the Irish while doing it, but there’s more to American anti-drug hysteria than racism.
Tools required for MJ cultivation: basic gardening equipment, decent seeds, marginally arable land, water, a quick google search for articles on M/F identification, cultivation tips, etc.
I don’t want to get into this debate, because I’m not a grower, but no no no no no no no. Growing decently market-grade weed equivalent to a homebrew requires a lot more attention to detail and expertise than this.
I mean, “quick google search for articles on M/F identification, cultivation tips” vs. “thorough understanding of chemistry”? It’s the same thing in essence. You’re just degrading one while elevating another.
I guarantee you, if you don’t believe me, try to grow. Don’t get discouraged, it usually takes a few attempts before you’ll get usable product.
We had to beg our landlord to grow elsewhere because he was using the suite below us to produce. IT STANK.
Get a job, hippies!
Who will help me plant these seeds?
The country banned alcohol only 40 years earlier, spurred by religious crazies who were anti-fun. No doubt they were pointing at the Irish while doing it, but there’s more to American anti-drug hysteria than racism.
I don’t dispute the last point, but alcohol has a bigger constituency than acid.
Steerpike: For beer, wine or cider, try $100 start up costs, and a small table in a room with a consistent temperature, and a basic understanding of what bacteria is and does. Anyone who can bake bread can manage beer. The market is large enough for pre made mixes to exist, at low prices too.
Distillation isn’t necessarily hard either. It can be done safely and easily with a household freezer.
For potent weed, as i understand it, you need a propagator for high quality seeds, LOTS of sunlight in a sheltered area.. and generally speaking is only possible for an experienced gardener, who is willing to give the plants regular attention.
I have friends who grow and I have friends who homebrew, and they all have had mixed results and headaches along the way, and from what I can tell, it takes a few tries to do any of this shit right. The good thing with beer and weed is that you can test your product without worrying that you’ll go blind because you fucked it up. At worst, it will taste like shit. I’m not sure either one is more difficult than the other.
That’s the only point I wanted to make: if it fucks you up, it’s morally suspect, leading to things like the “Jesus drank grape juice” line mentioned above, which I’ve heard from a number of devoted fundamentalists trying to prove that Jesus would never condone alcohol consumption.
“tastes like shit and/or doesn’t fuck you up” is what I should have said.
For potent weed, as i understand it, you need a propagator for high quality seeds, LOTS of sunlight in a sheltered area.. and generally speaking is only possible for an experienced gardener, who is willing to give the plants regular attention.
My friend grows decent stuff for her own personal use in her closet–it’s not the highest quality, but it does the trick.
Or blowing up your mobile home.
I recall with fondness my father’s wine-making efforts and him opening bottle after bottle one thanksgiving trying to find one that wouldn’t fizz in the glass.
leading to things like the “Jesus drank grape juice” line mentioned above, which I’ve heard from a number of devoted fundamentalists trying to prove that Jesus would never condone alcohol consumption.
So dumb. They didn’t have refrigeration back then. What the fuck do they think happened to the “grape juice” when they had to store it beyond the grape season. You couldn’t buy that shit from concentrate in the frozen case back then, morons.
Home distillation is also illegal except for our Kiwi friends.
Just to be clear I don’t believe we should be handing out weed in the streets. I realize it’s a mind-altering substance that should be handled care. But my point is that alcohol and tobacco are so much more destructive than pot and I’m just saying that we just aplly the same standards to those drugs as we do to cannabis, which is to keep them legal and well-regulated. And for real it just doesn’t make sense that I can walk down the street and buy five gallons of liquor and a carton of smokes and I can’t even find one joint to use responsibly. Also too.
I would still argue that home brewing is easier than home growing. 90% of home brewing failures are due to improper sterilisation of containers, which is easily achieved with very very dilute bleach. Pre-made kits are as cheap as getting your own ingredients, and virtually guarantee a drinkable outcome if you follow the instructions.
But once you have set your home brew going.. That is it, it doesn’t really need attention until it is time to bottle it. Plants need constant attention to keep them alive. Growing indoors probably simplifies matters, with no wind, and easily controllable temperature and light. On the other hand, you have the smell, and the electricity bill.
I’ve managed to make cider accidentally by not putting the cap back on the apple juice properly. I know that MJ will grow wild, but those plants don’t yield anything smokable as far as I understand it.
That be “handled with care”–see what lack of weed does to me!
Mariculture. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bar/1429893843.html
Yeah, the ban’s nonsensical except in a cynical political sense, like prohibitions on gay marriage.
There’s progress on both though, and that’s good.
I’ve managed to make cider accidentally by not putting the cap back on the apple juice properly.
Ahh, reminds me of my teenage years. Though there was nothing accidental about it. For extra fun, leave it outside on cold (sub-freezing) nights for natural fractional distillation. Voila, Applejack. Nasty, nasty shit.
I know that MJ will grow wild, but those plants don’t yield anything smokable as far as I understand it.
It’s smokable. There’s just no point in doing it.
Fucking WP got the munchies! That <i> WAS there, I KNOW it was.
FYWP!
Also: It takes a very devoted fundie to ignore the numerous references to drunkenness in the Bible. The wine that Jesus turned water into? Was wine.
The moral hysteria that lead to prohibition is pretty complicated, and sadly had more than a few civil rights advocates in favour of it, including feminists who argued it lead to domestic violence.
In the end, a lot of it must have come down to American societies unwillingness to admit that many social problems were due to poverty, and blaming the booze was easier.
There was an excellent article in Harper’s some years back containing info about how the spread of the apple in the New World was in large part due to the desire to get wasted.
Johnny Appleseed was a drug pusher.
“I know that MJ will grow wild, but those plants don’t yield anything smokable”
Have to disagree here. Way way back in the dark ages in college, a friend’s roommate (no really!) would start a plant in the fall in his closet. In the spring, he’d go find a remote-ish place with good sunlight, hike a little, bushwhack a little and plant his little friend.
Go away for the summer, come back for school in the fall, hike a little, bushwhack a little and he had a nice supply of smoke for the coming school year, including bud.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
I’m not saying he could compete with the quality I’m told is out there now but it definitely gave you more than a scratchy throat.
Growing cannabis is very much like brewing alcohol in this respect. Anyone can do it, but it takes time and skill to do it well. It’d be easier and quicker to make a batch of high-octane moonshine than grow highly-potent chronic.
Growing pot is way easier. Any completely stoned and usually drunk teenager can do it with ease. All he needs is some decent seed, soil, and ability to distinguish between male and female plants. I did it myself.
Solely for use as naval stores, of course.
OneMan – I think the distinction is that the stuff you find growing wild aint worth diddly squat. The seeds your “friend”‘s “roommate” started with were a worthwhile strain to begin with.
Your daily PENIS. Those sorts of stories bring to mind neocon foreign policy, for some reason. It is a MYSTERY.
Thank Heaven! He has such good uses for it.
$19. Gerald Ford, you have been exceeded once more.
Wow, the W, Robert Schuller from the Crystal Cathedral, and Tamara Lowe’s great hairdo. A bargain.
My favorite TPM link of the day: “Would you vote Boehner in a box? Would you vote Boehner with a fox?”
I do not look forward to Monsanto getting involved in the pot business.
$19. Gerald Ford, you have been exceeded once more.
Lookit the ad. It’s $19 per office, not per person.
Extra cheese is extra.
I hate to rain on the THC parade, but this nation ain’t NEVER gonna legalize. EVR.
We know the DFH party can’t propose it and we know the GOP never will, leaving only the big L Libertarians, and when exactly are they gonna get elected?
Legalization? Sadly, no.
Get motivated!
Legalization? Sadly, no.
I’ll think about that over my evening bowl tonight.
Most joints contain some quantity of tobacco anyway, and although some research has shown that pot smokers may have cancer rates lower than expected for their tobacco consumption, this is still very much questionable.
All smoke is carcinogenic. That’s a fact, Socky.
Do I do these fancy pop-ups for NOTHING?
John Galt GUILTY.
Do I do these fancy pop-ups for NOTHING?
some of us read ’em, Substance.
Umm, not me. I read it after your comment, though.
Do I do these fancy pop-ups for NOTHING?
some of us read ‘em, Substance.
Umm, not me. I read it after your comment, though.
Erm. Yes, well.
Poop.
From the motivational seminar, Zig Ziglar’s agenda:
So I need to sit through those other dorks because…
Take off every Zig! For great justice!
Did you know that $19 will get vegetables not just for your sammich, but sammiches for your entire office!
Zig Ziglar scandal!
The ex-president must resign!
At the rate the Republicans are going downhill, I give it a month, tops.
Does a pitcher not warm up before throwing in the World Series?
Does a singer not stretch her voice before performing in front of millions?
So, too, must you take in lesser speakers before you experience the awe-inspiring motivational fury of The Ziglar.
My spouse was prescribed Marinol to gain weight after a prolonged illness. He was a long-time MJ user/lover, but not recently. Anyway, he asked me to try it to see if it worked before he took a dose (his health was fragile and I was protective). Being an old timer (first toke: 1965 – Long Beach, CA) but not an imbiber myself, I did.
I didn’t notice I was high until I found myself rummaging through the pantry for something to eat. I realized I was stoned out of my gourd. So it works for hunger, but I’m afraid all the other nice stuff (visuals, humor, physical relaxation) has been drained out of Marinol. For instance if you try to watch a silly show on TV, you will not be amused. But if mixing canned tuna with split pea soup is your thing, you’ll love it.
Zig Ziglar and LoLlerskate Girl star in How Zig Learned Discipline.
Apparently I am full of shit about Bush being worse than Gerald Ford.
Do I do these fancy pop-ups for NOTHING?
I love the pop-ups. Links with no text on hover are a huge let down.
OMG!
States’ rights are restricted to the right to pig up a lot of federal assistance and then bitch about the gubbermint.
For this sentence alone he should be sodomized by angry elephants.
Fuck the South. Also.
Wow. I think I’m gonna memorize that “fuck the South” rant. Great stuff.
OT, but argh. I just got a call from my Congress-bluedog, or rather my phone rang and I found myself participating in his health care conference call. I stuck around about 3 minutes, long enough to hear these two things:
1) he asserted that England had no health insurance except the government plan
2) the constituents asking questions were just as badly-informed as he is, thinking e.g. that the public option = single payer.
I call the guy’s office at least once a week to request that the staffers pass along my request that he support a strong public option (plus detailing that that means I don’t support whatever dumbass dodge the critters have come up with this time, like triggers.) Too depressing to sit in on this.
Maybe weed would help – but I haven’t had any since I needed to keep my shit together enough to work for a living, more’s the pity.
Ahem. Here in England, there IS no “government plan”. Heath insurance is something you only get from private companies.
It is just that nobody needs health insurance, because 99% of health care is free.
Here in England, there IS no “government plan”.
…which makes his statement just that much worse, indeed.
itwasntme, were the flavor enhancement properties gone, too?
There are few experiences I can recall that I enjoy as much as a neat bourbon after smoking a bowl. It’s like drinking bliss.
Here’s Dash’s reaction to the news that the Obama administration is reducing enforcement of medical marijuana…
Why is it that there isn’t a simple test to be taken before a person can stand for election? Nothing fancy, just enough to prove they know enough basic facts about the world around them to be considered sane and concious.
Most places won’t let a person drive a car until they know what a stop sign looks like. Likewise, a person should not be allowed to stand for election without knowing the difference between a public healthcare insurance plan, and a single payer healthcare system.
Dash Levels.
After all, those two options are the two most popular methods of healthcare provision in the industrialised world. How can a person NOT know what they are?
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said…
============================
Mind sharing which district?
~
Likewise, a person should not be allowed to stand for election without knowing the difference between a public healthcare insurance plan, and a single payer healthcare system.
While I agree with you, here in Utah that’d disqualify pretty much everybody. We’re pretty stupid out here.
Mind sharing which district?
UT 2nd.
Nice picture!
~
Djur, I was too stoned to notice (I had taken three of the little pearly balls – one more than prescribed). I think the whole “notice and enjoy every little thing” aspect is absent from Marinol. Just the “gobble anything down” remains.
The tuna in split pea soup tasted great tho!
Democrat in Name Only Jim Matheson?
Sigh. Your alternative is some crazy right-wing bugfuck, and that’s all there is, isn’t it.
~
Lady Dr. Ms Mommy:
Great job! Too cute.
ITTDGY – yup. It kinda sucks. Salt Lake City itself is surprisingly cosmopolitan and progressive given where it is, but the state is on the short list for most fucktarded in the Union.
Matheson is about as good as we can expect.
(I meant to add that while Matheson represents the most progressive part of the state, the district also covers a huge area and population of knuckledraggers, and he was chosen by them as much as by us University-distict latte-sippers.)
Utah? You have my sympathies.
But then again.. Isn’t being an elected representative supposed to be a rare privilege, only for those who are a cut above the rest?
In the US, the only test imposed on candidates is on their bank balance. I feel this does not make for the best possible field of candidates..
I’ve got an idea. How about a gameshow, where election candidates answer questions on the US political system, foreign affairs, scientific facts and general knowledge.. To win federal campaign funds!
Utah? You have my sympathies.
Thank you, but I’ve lived here for over 30 years and keep forgetting that other places are, well, better.
Here’s Dash’s reaction to the news that the Obama administration is reducing enforcement of medical marijuana…
Someone has replaced your child with the Dalai Lama to see if you’ll notice.
The parts of Utah I have visited are quite lovely, so there’s that.
The parts of Utah I have visited are quite lovely, so there’s that.
It is beautiful and fairly cheap to live in, and the part of town I live in is pretty much indistinguishable from a real city, so I rather like it. I’m just in kind of a downer mood today as I often am when I’m reminded what the state as a whole is like, politically / socially.
Thanks.
…and not to rain on li’l Dash’s parade. Dalai Lama jr. there has the right idea.
DASH LEVEL: YELLOW
The parts of Utah I have visited are quite lovely, so there’s that.
I’ve had the pleasure of skiing in Little Rock Canyon and such as.
Solitude was a great place.
Go figure.
~
Xecky, If your elected representative isn’t representing you, trying calling somebody else’s.
Working on the more easily persuadable reps, and encouraging those already on the right side will help build up the numbers, until there is sufficient momentum for all the yes voters to put pressure on their blue dog comrades.
After all, who is your congresscritter going to listen to? You, or his peers?
The fact that your congresscritter hasn’t bothered to learn what the terms of the debate are, even in the midst of one of the biggest debates for years, means he is a fucking idiot, and he will NOT understand the bill that he eventually votes on. In that case, I think a bit of bullying is a fair tactic.
I think a bit of bullying is a fair tactic.
Thanks – I’ll keep an eye on whoever’s persuadable. I have a feeling Matheson would be most inclined to listen to his also-dumb Blue Dog peers, but you have a point.
I think at some point, probably when the bill has solidified, there will be a big effort within the democratic party to make everyone toe the line and vote yes. That would be the moment to add your voice. The more overwhelming the shout of “vote yes” is, the better.
So really, the battle at the moment is to persuade those who are drafting things, and influencing what will be in the final bill. Matheson certainly doesn’t sound like he is going to be influential in that.
the Bible said nothing about pot-smoking – Ted the Slacker
orly?
Genesis 1:29
Nope, I’d say Matheson’s pretty solidly on the wrong side of public opinion, history, and hopefully influence. Thanks again.
I know the feeling though. I am represented by some pig faced Tory dipshit.
Are all you fuggin’ hippies stoned out of your trees? You’ve made more sense here waxing serious about weed than in a mo. of Sundays. Stay off the topic, d0ods & doodzettes!
Stay off the topic, d0ods & doodzettes!
If you want spider-blogging, I’m all over it.
~
Hemp bred for producing rope and textiles and such has exceptionally strong fibers and very little THC content. That type of hemp used to be a major crop in the Midwest and the stuff growing wild there today is descended from it. It is indeed worthless for smoking, as several of my friends found out back in the day.
I’ve never heard of useable recreational marijuana growing completely wild in the US, but I don’t see why it couldn’t… other than that it would be smoked up by humans if they found it.
I’ve never heard of useable recreational marijuana growing completely wild in the US, but I don’t see why it couldn’t…
My mother, who grew up in the 1930s in Silicon Valley (Not called that at the time, though.) said that, pre-Anslinger & “Reefer Madness,” muggles was thought of as “that weed that grew in San Francisquito Creek that the Mexicans smoked.”
After all, at some time in history there must have been reefer in the wild that would give you a buzz.
other than that it would be smoked up by humans if they found it
Or eaten by animals, long before dense humanoids even noticed the stuff.
See: December 12, 2000.
the guy is right. and we better get to the legal bottom of the issue before the white house changes hands and the feds start arresting people, legally.
When was the last time Democrats did that? I don’t see how they’ll achieve anything serious until they get someone like LBJ again to keep their sorry asses in line. Supermajority much?
Or he could just walk a couple blocks to his local dispensary. What would you do?
Exactly, home-growing will be like home-brewing is now: a hobby for connoisseurs and experimentalists. Given the opportunity, most people will just go buy it.
As for the economic and political model, have a look at what’s going on in Oakland, CA. I haven’t looked into who’s behind it, but they are working the political solely based on things like increased local/state tax revenues, increased tourism centered around an Amsterdam-like cafe district, etc. The same people run “Oaksterdam University” that offers paid workshops for would-be growers and trains dispensary owners the ins-and-out of the business. I saw a news story on OU a while back and the classes were not filled with the DudeMen– there were a lot of 50ish former real estate agents and other second-career Yuppies.
Point is: the most effective organization working for decrim/legalization is for-profit, doing the heavy-lifting of creating a professionalized infrastructure, and making the political case based on economic benefit not “duuuuuude mah freedoooooomz”. In other words, it aint the 60s (the 70s, 80s, or 90s) anymore.
Subjectively, I kind of agree with you – but the facts are really heavily impregnated with Liberal Bias the other way on this.
A lot of folks who’re taking the former approach have/had conditions like epilepsy, arthritis, muscular dystrophy, Lyme disease, AIDS wasting, chronic nausea (from chemotherapy), glaucoma (& on & on & on, the list is staggering – these are off the top of my head) & gained major benefits from cannabis. The simple truth is, if you suffer from any such condition, it IS good for you. Prescription drugs (many of them highly addictive) which have sometimes-ferocious side-effects (& pricetags) generally are not.
You can also get a vaporiser if you can afford one, rendering any smoke-related issues moot … or just bake it into pastries.
Most bodacious high I ever had was from one-&-a-half “happiness-enriched” chocolate-chip muffins – a good 12 hours of giddy body-stoned inertia (PROTIP: when you’re still not buzzed 20-30 minutes later, don’t scarf down some more – it comes on slow but when it hits, SHAZZAM, you’d better have somewhere to lay down).
PROTIP: when you’re still not buzzed 20-30 minutes later, don’t scarf down some more
Now you tell me! Where were you with this advice 22 years ago?
Why is it that there isn’t a simple test to be taken before a person can stand for election?
Once elected, they should have to submit to monthly piss tests, with the results made public. That’ll spur legalization efforts.
Wait a minute, stop. The rule is, if you’re a creationist, you don’t get to rail against pot. I mean, god made it, right? Who are we to say anything bad about god’s holy inscrutabilitiness?
They’d probably claim that, due to the Fall (not the band, sillies), teh weed became eeeeevil.
Cannabis truly is a miracle plant. It has so many awesome, practical, Earth-friendly applications, the fact that is provides the user with a nice, mellow buzz is just the icing on the cake
As has been pointed out above, this probably contributed to criminalization (can’t patent the shit).
They’d probably claim that, due to the Fall (not the band, sillies), teh weed became eeeeevil.
Even though you said “not the band” I immediately thought of the time my old band opened for the Fall in the 90s and the keyboard player came up to us and furtively asked if we had any pot, nervously adding, “but don’t tell Mark I asked you!!!”
chimpevil:
Revenge. DFHs laughed at Nixon and the Reagans.