um, i think this one is pretty clear cut.
1. stop being muslim.
2. now. just stop.
frontpage obviously just needs some reporters who can cut right to the core.

Because all Muslims instinctively know where the jihadists are in every Muslim community, even though the Jihadists apparently do their best to keep their beliefs secret from the normals. Gotcha.

Well, Brad, honestly. Don’t you know that we need them to identify their own, because us honkys can’t tell them apart?

Yes, I’m sure that all Muslims, after reading Spencer’s directives we’ll say…”Alrighty, then. We’ll get right on it.”

Hey, Spencer….how about you stop engaging in intellectual dishonesty by pretending you’re addressing Muslims, when really, you’re just addressing your base of brainless bigots?

Honestly, these people and their lies…

What’s really funny about this guy is that just by looking at him, you can’t *tell* he’s an Armenian Catholic, not a *gasp* Muslim himself. By Malkin standards of ethnic profiling, he should be swept away and locked up – after all, he doesn’t *look* any different from the Persian dentist downtown, who celebrates Eid, not Easter, particularly with the beard and all.

He lives in my neighborhood and preaches hate and pretends to be a nice and decent and normal family guy at his church.

LGF #6: Stop killing Jews in France….anywhere else, fine. But not France!

And, hey, stop justifying hate by referencing the Qur’an. You don’t see Christians….er….nevermind.

Stop throwing juvenile hissyfits over silly cartoons.

Ted Rall.

Uh-oh… Brad, don’t you think that using “D-Ho” and “smack” in the same room endorses violence against sex workers?

Sorry, I was channeling A-Bar for a second there.

Not that there are any Christian terrorist groups in America today.

Just a head up: some of those links are graphic, and you really don’t want to look at any of them (except the Wiki stuff, of course).

This is to easy. Spencer is a crackhead.

Ooh, snap, I just offended myself…

Hello? I’m having one of those really intense “The Stupid! It Burns!” moments.

I’m thinking this needs to make the rounds:

1. Stop committing violent acts.
2. Stop justifying those violent acts by reference to the Bible.
3. Stop saying violent or hateful things when you’re surrounded by your Christian coreligionists
4. Begin comprehensive international programs in churches all over the world to teach against the ideas of hastening the “End Times� and Christianity as the “One True Faith.�
5. Actively work with law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend violent Christian radicals within Christian enclaves.

I guess that LGF commenter is too busy volunteering for Planned Parenthood to know about the Christian Dominionists who are in fact in favor of public stoning and enforced “modest dress.”

Shorter Spence:

“Hey Muslims. Stop acting like Christians.”

Brad, don’t you think that using “D-Ho” and “smack” in the same room endorses violence against sex workers?

And here I thought it was an attack vicious and unprincipled on addicts drug poor hapless! Most offended am I by these motives ulterior! When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not! Hmpf!

How about, just as an aside, a non-denominational list of suggestions to religionists? Or is that too much like implying that Muslims are not inherently violent worshippers of an evil Satan clone, or that Christians can blow people up, stick swords in people, lynch people, and otherwise generally be highly unpleasant while citing their holy book as well?

Intellectual dishonesty indeed.

(Oh, and, guys? Let the smack/crack/whores thing go. You’ve pretty much beat it into the ground. I mean it.)

Alternatively, hey Muslims:

1. Stop having all that oil that we want.
2. Stop having your countries attacked by us.
3. Stop getting bombed by us on a regular basis.
4. Stop being treated as second-class citizens in various European countries.
5. Stop having broken economies that are plundered by us.

C’mon, D. Sidhe, you’ve been around here long enough that there is no horse so dead it can’t use a little more beating.

When the day comes that a horse is too dead to beat further, we will have reached the end of the internets.

Just for clarification:

Pious.

Terrorist.

Thank you.

Brad, you left off this gem from the end of Spencer’s list:

If Muslims did these five things, and they would find, voila, that perceptions of Islam around the world would begin miraculously to improve.

Yes! If they would just do these five things, bigotry and racism would cease immediately!

You see, Muslims, you’re a lot like the Jews: you bring hatred — and, if you’re not careful, genocide — on yourselves by the way you behave. With them, it’s being smart and greedy and obsessed with sex. With you, it’s being poor and angry and explodey. Now, if you would just shape up, I wouldn’t have to hit you any more. C’mon, baby, you know I love you, it’s just sometimes you make me so mad I have to detain you without charges and torture you or drop a few bombs.

You know, this kind of reminds me of my college days when I was told that, as a mele, it was my responsibility to go around and tell other males to stop raping women. Which was kind of impractical, because I didn’t know any rapists and didn’t quite know how to go find any. It was an art college, so there weren’t any jocks around, which would’ve been my best bet.

Since the wingnuts insist on making this a religion thing with regards to Muslims, just for handy-dandy reference sake, I compiled a list of deaths caused by religious affiliation since 1900 in war and genocides.

The results:

Wars involving European-Christians and Asian Buddhists (incl. WWII) have killed 154.8 million people in the past century. Wars involving Muslims (incl. WWII) have killed 25.6 million people in the past century.*

Major genocides & atrocities committed by European-Christians and Asian Buddhists have killed 84.0 million people in the past century. Major genocides & atrocities committed by Muslims have killed 3.5 million people in the past century.**

So the bloodthirsty European-Christians and Asian-Buddhists racked up a whopping 238.8 million deaths by war and genocide over the past century, to the Muslims’ 29.1 million deaths.

Who are the horrible threats to civilized life again?

Also, unsurprisingly, if you are an Asian-Buddhist, the most dangerous people out there for you over the past century have been other Asian-Buddhists … if you are a European-Christian, likewise, it’s other European-Christians. And of course, if you are Jewish, it is European-Christians who killed at the most conservative count 6.25 million of your people since 1900, while Muslims don’t even crack the tens of thousands.

*And even that’s a stretch – Muslim participation in WWII is almost entirely as victims, but it’s hard to separate out hard numbers so just note that the 25.6 million figure is high by any fair measure.

**A large chunk of the Muslim genocide/atrocity figure comes from the Armenian genocide at the very beginning of the 20th century.

You know, D. Sidhe, you should really look into smoking smaller crack rocks.

the ground is exactly where I want that crafty horse. He was totally failing to tell the muslims to be peaceful and stuff.

just want to point out–in general, that whole LGF list is pretty non-controversial, right?

1. Stop stoning women to death

i agree, one hundred percent. it’s a western liberal value that is being promulgated here. fuck any religion that would deny women basic rights.

2. Stop forcibly removing women’s genitilia.

right on. women’s rights are fundamental to our core beliefs–especially as liberals.

3. Stop forcing women to wear black trash can liners.

well, complicated, because lots of women in the islamic world actually will defend their “subjagation” and their removal of sex from the public square. i think it’s fucked up, myself, and agree with this as well, as does any pro-western non-asshole, but it is a tad complicated.

4. Stop blowing up buildings, subways, and such. yes, it is true, many of these acts have been commited around the world lately by islamisists of various stripes. their level of aposotasy in so doing is beyond my knowledge, but in general, that seems like a good idea, however righteous they may feel their cause is. killing civilians is teh l4m3.

5. Stop attacking Israel. here things get interesting. i think it is safe to say people who call for the genocide of other people based on their religious persuasion are assholes and all right thinking people should hate them right back for it. but protesting israel’s various land grabs, inhumane treatment of palestinians etc.–that’s a tougher call. i’m split on this myself, though again, if you are saying israelis should die for existing, you are a shitbag.

6. Stop killing Jews in France.

sure. we agree with that as well. is a bad thing.

7. Stop suing anyone who says things you don’t want to hear.

here we start to go off the rails a bit. ever been to the UK? they sue each other over saying things every day. i don’t see what this has to do with islam.

8. Stop throwing juvenile hissyfits over silly cartoons.

i agree wholeheartedly with this. if your religion is so fucking weak and pathetic it can’t take a bit of ribbing, may i suggest secular humanism as an alternative? i mean, seriously, can anyone disagree here at S!N that parody is a good thing and that the world needs more, not less, of it?

9. Stop trying to kill apostates.

it does in fact say that this is what one is supposed to do with apostates in the quran. verbatim. kind of fucked up for a “holy book”.

10. And generally stop being a bunck of jerk-offs.

But then again, if they did that, they wouldn’t be muslims, now would they?

now this stuff strikes me as racist, or religionist, or whatever. but here’s the crux of the thing. religion does in fact suck. my religion–judaism–sucks ass. lame with the women, bad with the lessons taught, violent and vindictive, pro-slavery and incest etc.. christianity suuu uuu uu cccks. the last 2000 years of history, sanguinary as they are, will attest to that. and yes, it is true, islam suuu huuu hhuuuuuu ccccks. it does. i know the quran has a lot of beautiful stuff in it (as does the new testament) about helping the poor, the golden rule and so on. but the bad stuff in the quran is so fricking bad it is astounding, and i don’t believe anyone who is a s!n reader would disagree with that analysis. really, you think the whole “kill or convert the infidel” thing is cool? you’re down with women being treated like fucking dirt?

so, cognitive dissonance–i think most people here agree with 90% of what the LGF poster says, if you look at it objectively. we’ve just all been taught to kiss the ass of everyone else’s religion–me, i’m not willing to do that. religion is the worst thing on our earth right now, and islam shouldn’t get a free pass, even if it means agreeing with horrible LGFers.

i’m posting this on my blog, please feel free to flame me there.

Alternatively, hey Muslims:

6. Stop hitting yourself.

—
I dunno, gang. It’s just kinda like this: clearly you didn’t mean to offend the woman, as you’d, you know, never heard of her. And clearly she was being something of a twit by not listening in any way to your explanation.
Nonetheless, it is not unreasonable, when you find you have inadvertantly offended someone (unlike the usual deliberate offense-giving that is gleefully the whole point here) to either apologize and move on, or to just let it go.

Just something to think about.

However, I’m going to have to admit that the responses about Why Horses Must Be Beaten did make me giggle.
Carry on, then.

Mr Green, I think for me the issue is “standing”.
The LGFers kind of look like hypocrites when they lecture others on how to treat women, and people who don’t believe as you do, and the French, for example, and outsiders in general.

The point is not so much that I think they’re wrong, but that I simply don’t think they actually believe what they’re saying, and are instead, so to speak, co-opting the victimization of groups they themselves like to victimize to use as a bludgeon on the designated outgroup they (currently) hate more than the previously designated outgroup.

In short, I suspect that the guys saying stuff like “Those Muslocommies should stop oppressing women”, for example, are also the sort of guys who say things like “she was asking for it” about rape victims (please see the Jill Carroll discussions). It’s not that they’re opposed to taking women’s rights away, they just want to define which rights.

d sidhe

i agree with you wholeheartedly. you are spot on. but the context of gavin’s post here leaves that unclear. it always bothers me when we highlight things the swampright says that we of course agree with but let irony get in the way. i know the writing style here, i know the comedy style here, and me likee–that’s why i come by every day. but still, truth is truth. if idiot boy over at LGF says things that are oddly pro-feminist, i think that should be highlighted as well.

plus, i really don’t like monotheistic religion. i’m a big fan of both gog AND magog, though.

Robert, I agree 100% with D. Sidhe here. It’s not necessarily what they’re saying that’s a problem, it’s that if you switched it from talking about Muslims to talking about the Religious Right, you could have almost the exact same list.

Robert-
The point was that all Muslims should not be judged by the actions of religious fanatics. OF COURSE I oppose female genital mutilation, sharia, etc. But for fuck’s sake, Islam is a religion with over 1 billion followers. Not all of them condone these practices, and they shouldn’t be held collectively responsible for the actions of fanatics.

Again, I use the example of Jerry Falwell and PAt Robertson, who are religious crazies who get all the headlines, just as the anti-cartoon nutcases who burn down embassies get lead stories in the nightly news. Should we demand that all Christians continuously condemn the actions of the Christian Right, even though they’re of a completely different mindset?

The point, too, is that LGF and D-Ho wingnuts have shown themselves time and again to be utterly incapable of recognizing even the smallest glass-paned cornice window in their own stone-throwing house of crack.

It’s one thing to be a little bit hypocritical in your demands for others to correct their behavior … but these clowns are downright pathological. Their lives are literally consumed by their hatred of Muslims and their fantasies of eliminating them. This has been shown to be the case over and over and over again. Thus their advice to Muslims, whatever small ring of truth some of it may have, is not only unwelcome, it is to be a priori distrusted and ridiculed.

Say, who else thinks it’s a bit odd LGF is so concerned about people in France dying? I thought they were pro-dead French-type people, or at least didn’t like ’em. Even dropped that horrid insult of renaming their national dish “freedom fries”.

Man, we must make the French just laugh and laugh.

Man, we must make the French just laugh and laugh.

To the French, the Wingnutosphere must be like having an Army of Jerry Lewises.

Regarding Brad’s point, uh, oh yeah. That too.
Now I feel like a bigot because it didn’t even occur to me to say that.
This stuff is contagious, I think. Enough Agape Press, and all of a sudden you only can think that *all* One-Godders are violent, twisted nitwits.

And Demogenes, valid points there as well. (Man, I’m being a dork about the D-Ho thing today. I just woke up and decided to be offended, apparently.)

so, cognitive dissonance–i think most people here agree with 90% of what the LGF poster says, if you look at it objectively. we’ve just all been taught to kiss the ass of everyone else’s religion–me, i’m not willing to do that. religion is the worst thing on our earth right now, and islam shouldn’t get a free pass, even if it means agreeing with horrible LGFers.

I didn’t read it like that. Others have chimed in before me to say that the article deserved mockery for making it sound like 90% of Muslims are raving nuts who wear vests of dynamite to the store. But also, or maybe instead, my own take on it was that Robert Spencer must be pretty dumb, because he’s treating this like serious advice when of course doing all that stuff would improve Islam’s image. I mean, look at that first point.

If Muslims around the world don’t want Islam to be perceived as encouraging violence, they should take these five steps:
1. Stop committing violent acts.

Um, duh, I mean, DUH. DUUUUHH.

The author thought something so simple was worth writing? Horowitz thought it was worth the server space? Is he parodying his audience or does he actually mean it? Well, no one here is surprised by that, but stupidity of that magnitude shouldn’t be left alone.

There are three things you can do with an article like this. You can ignore it, obviously. Or you can take it apart sentence by sentence, with sensible rebuttals like “Well of course committing fewer violence acts would help Islam’s reputation in addition to being a good thing in and of itself, but since a significant reduction in violence hasn’t happened yet we have to assume either that the people who want Islam to be non-violent have no control over the violent or that Muslims see non-violence as secondary to other concerns, or both.”

Or you can do as Brad did and mock it. His way was probably easiest and most deserved.

You’re right, I agree with everything Spencer said here. I agree with its minimal, literal meaning, at least. But if he thinks there’s any point in saying it, his computer screen must be covered with White-Out.

Sidhe, if it’ll make you feel better, you can make fun of me for having recently returned to being a health-food fascist.

I’ve been feeling crummy lately, so I’ve decided to eat nothing but extremely nutritious things for a few weeks. Thus, lunch today was grilled low-fat tofu, seasoned with curry powder and garam masala, on a bed of steamed brown rice.

And dinner will be low-sodium tuna with romaine lettuce, tomatoes, and a side of oven roasted vegetables.

Let the mocking commence!

And, seeing as I’ve already given notice at my job, I think that if any of my customers wish me a “Happy Easter” at work tomorrow, I will respond with “Ack! You’re a terrorist! Why do you want to see Hugo Chavez murdered? Oh, shit – I looked at another woman the other day and thought she had a really pretty butt….please don’t stone me! I said ‘shit’ – oh, no! I take it back! Don’t hurt me! Don’t hurt me!”

“…killing civilians is teh l4m3…”

Ahem… I prefer the less controversial term, “achieving carousel.”

And stop supporting NASCAR. Didn’t everyone know that NASCAR was a front for funneling funds to terrorist organizations such as the Catholic Church? Oh wait, I am posting to the wrong section…or am I…

“achieving carousel.”

I am offended.

Renew! Renew!

Overwhelming, am I not?

Now, if you would just shape up, I wouldn\’t have to hit you any more. C\’mon, baby, you know I love you, it\’s just sometimes you make me so mad I have to detain you without charges and torture you or drop a few bombs.
Fucking. Awesome.

Um… this would really make just as much sense if you substituted “Americans” for Muslims in every paragraph.

And yet I don’t think he believes that all Americans should be viewed a violent nitwits.

I wrote a little playlet to explain my objections.