Marie deplores the popular view that married women don’t want sex, and then she deplores the popular view that married women DO want sex? How original.

Oh. My. God. THose liberal Hollywood producers! They deliberately created “Married with Children” so that we viewers, admiring the Bundy family, would emulate them, thus indoctrinating us against marriage! A brilliant, dastardly plot!!! Bwah hah hahahahah!

Ok. Now I’m totally convinced that Marie’ is a robot.

Seriously.

And the reason for the deplorable trend of young people (gasp!) having sex before marriage?

They were all watching “Married With Children” as little tykes!

I love it when people say stuff like this:

“Sorry to break this to our friends in the mainstream media and Hollywood, but love and marriage go hand in hand with good sex.”

Sorry to break it to you guys — I can just see the startled looks as the CEO’s of WB, FOX and UPN stop in their tracks. “What? What? Love and marriage go hand in hand?? This could destroy all that we’re working for! How dare she say that?? We can’t let this information get out! She must be stopped, now!”

As a happily married man who has been with his wife for over 15 years, why would I listen to what a 20-something single person tell me about how marriages work? isn’t that like getting sex advice from a virgin. Oh. wait…. nevermind.

Do all these conservative fundie types lack any sense of satire, parody and irony? Is it nature or nurture? My experience with people that gush about the wonders of romance is that they often confess thier sex life is unsatisfying.

In a thoroughly modern and pleasure-driven world, might this “old and crude” saying possibly be referring to sex? Indeed.

In its original context, might this old and crude saying possible have always referred to sex? Indeed.
Think, Marie, if it weren’t about sex, how would it considered “crude”? What is “crude” about the price of milk?

It amazes those of us who live by the idea that keeping oneself for marriage is widely misunderstood.
“This sentence is written like an Escher drawing. Can anyone figure out where the hell the subject and predicate are?”

OK, Brad, you asked for it. (cracks knuckles, rolls up sleeves, takes extra dose of tranquilizer.) Cover me! I’m going in!

It = subject (a vague reference to something in the previous sentence)
Amazes = verb
Those = direct object
Of us = prepositional phrase modifying “those”
Who live by the idea = relative clause used as an adjective, modifying “us”
That = introduces another relative clause used as an adjective, modifying “idea”
keeping oneself for marriage = gerund phrase used as subject of second relative clause
is = verb
widely misunderstood = subjective complement (used to be called predicate nominative) describing “keeping…”

So, to parse out the ideas here (from back to front):
1) There is a perception (the “idea”) that premarital chastity (“keeping oneself for marriage”) is misunderstood.
2) Some people, like Marie, live by this perception.
3) Because Marie live by this perception, she is amazed by some unclear noun in the previous sentence.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that what Marie meant was something like the following:
1) The idea of premarital chastity is widely misunderstood.
2) Some people, like Marie, live by the idea of premarital chastity.
3) Because Marie lives by the idea of premarital chastity, she is amazed by some unclear noun in the previous sentence.

But in order for that to make sense, she’d have to delete thought one as irrelevant, and somehow make the unclear noun in the previous sentence more clear.

No one has ever found that cohabitation makes a positive contribution to later marital stability.

No one? Ever? In the history of the world? So because my husband and I lived together for two years before we got married, our marriage is unstable? Wow. I guess the last 17 years were just the calm before the storm?

Woodrowfan- c’mon, admit it. You’ve refused sex with your wife to show solidarity with Al Bundy.

Dorothy- you’re far braver than I for diagramming that sentence.

Mmm mmm mm, low-hanging fruit. *smack smack*

Marie and her virginal pals all seem to specialize in completely missing the point. For all her attempts at polished writing and at adopting that “serious observer” tone, it’s painfully clear that she’s rather unsophisticated. This was highlighted by the need to go “English major on her ass”, which S,N! admirably restrained itself from, since Marie’s saving herself for marriage.

Pity the girl, her unmet needs are making her rather grumpy, so she’s talking out of that un-paddled ass of hers. Maybe someone will buy her a clue for Valentine’s Day.

No wonder she looks so cranky in that head-shot. She must be a ticking time bomb of repressed sexual energy.

And hey! How do these right-wing whippersnappers like Marie and Georgie Deutsch get some plum and visible positions as public idiots whereas more sensible people like myself enter our 30s all poor and shit?

God, the cash I’d have if I just didn’t have this IQ…

An unmarried self-proclaimed virgin declares marital sex the best possible sex, and non-virgins will never get married? There’s another old saying, “tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.”

And hey! How do these right-wing whippersnappers like Marie and Georgie Deutsch get some plum and visible positions as public idiots whereas more sensible people like myself enter our 30s all poor and shit?

I don’t think Marie is all that influential, except here at Sadly, No!

Dorothy, I fall back in admiration of your parsing prowess. What a fine contribution to the comments. Brad, when I first read the sentence in question, I didn’t know what you were talking about. I read it as if it were the way an intelligent person should have written it. But then I looked more closely and got so caught up in that endless rollercoaster loop of a Moebius-strip that I became nauseated and had to look away. Random Guy, don’t you get Brad started with that talk of M J’s repressed sexual energy. You know how he do.

Hey, whatever happened to Kerry Marsala? Reading this makes me miss her.

Wow, haven’t heard the “Won’t buy the cow if you get the milk for free” line in a long time. As I explained to my girlfriends father: “I’m not buying a damn cow without making sure it gives milk first, and you shouldn’t talk about your daughter that way”.

I wonder why he never liked me.

It amazes those of us who live by the idea that keeping oneself for marriage is widely misunderstood.

It takes a lot of Bloody Marys to make this thing worth tackling. Luckily, I’m rarely sober enough to be smart at this time of the morning. Working backward:

that keeping oneself for marriage is widely misunderstood – this is a gerund phrase acting in apposition with the subject pronoun it.

who live by the idea – this is an object complement describing…

…those of us, which refers to Marie and other like-minded people and is a noun phrase acting as a direct object to the predicate verb amazes…

…which is the action performed by the subject pronoun it…

…which is clarified by the appositive that keeping oneself for marriage is widely misunderstood.

So our premises are that:
(a) Marie and others like her live by some idea that she hasn’t yet outlined for us.
(b) The concept of keeping oneself for marriage is widely misunderstood.
(c) Premise (b) amazes Marie and others like her.

Ergo: Those of us who live by a certain vague idea are amazed that that the concept of keeping oneself for marriage is widely understood.

(d) Marie needs an editor. And a hobby. And a good, deep dicking.

ACG- You’ll be receiving a note from the MG and/or ACME Law Firm shortly.

Just yesterday I heard the perfect response to said cow analogy: Why buy the pig if all you want is a little sausage now and then?

Why buy the pig if all you want is a little sausage now and then?

Ha. I love that!

When do you remember seeing a movie or a television sitcom where married people are really enjoying good and loving sex, and cherishing every moment of their intimacy?

So there should be *more* sex on TV? Damn that meddling liberal sex-hating media!

Would that be the one I just got from Joe McLawyer, Esq., who told me that if I didn’t “cease and desist and quit, like, right away” he was going to “totally sue the crap out of me, for serious”?

This sentence is written like an Escher drawing.

Best. Fisking. Ever.

The anti-marriage media would have you believe that sex between a monogamous husband and wife is only engaged in for procreation.

But Marie, I thought that’s what you wingnuts keep telling us is the only purpose of sex!

Think, Marie, if it weren’t about sex, how would it considered “crude”? What is “crude” about the price of milk?

Maybe it’s “crude” because it hasn’t been Pasteurized yet. You know, kinda like “crude” oil?

Would that be the one I just got from Joe McLawyer, Esq., who told me that if I didn’t “cease and desist and quit, like, right away” he was going to “totally sue the crap out of me, for serious”?

Hmm, no, that sounds like a hoax. The real McLawyer usually tells you to “stop performing illegal Internet activity.”

I’m very glad that someone had the courage to stand up to that Fox Network and all its liberal television progamming!

How very VERY convenient to ignore all of the sitcoms that show marriage as being overly simple, with nary a complication, like Brady Bunch, Cosby, and Growing Pains. Choosing Married With Children as a typical family-based sitcom is a staggering instance of data cherry-picking.

LOL, Dorothy.

What was the main idea of this column, again? Are they teaching faith-based essay-writing now? You don’t have to have a thesis or a premise or a logical procession of ideas — no one can criticize you as long as you believe!

When do you remember seeing a movie or a television sitcom where married people are really enjoying good and loving sex, and cherishing every moment of their intimacy?
Well, actually the last time for me was on that show The Book of Daniel, but that got cancelled cuz it had Jesus in it, or something.

As for that Mobius sentence, it should read: It amazes those of us who live by the idea that one should keep oneself for marriage that we are widely misunderstood.

Okay, so Marie’s okay with more sex on TV as long as it’s by married couples.
And her argument that sex-before-marriage means you won’t get married actually *does* hold some water. For example, in my state, certain couples who have been having sex together for years or even decades aren’t planning to get married.
Of course, it’s because these certain couples are gay, and it’s, you know, illegal for them to get married, and okay, Marie’s down with that, but she’s got a point.
Or not a point.
Whatever.

“Why buy the cow when you are getting the milk for free?”

And here’s a message to all of you married men patronizing hookers:

“Why buy the milk, when you already own the cow, you’re milking her for all she’s worth, and she’s providing you with all manner of dairy products?”

Um…. Marie…. The Cosby Show. Clif and Claire seemed to enjoy one another after five kids, as did their daughter Sondra and her husban Elvin.

Good Times…. Florida and James had a warm and sensual relationship (and three nice kids in a ghetto/poverty milieu.

I Love Lucy… I hated that show, but somehow, Lucy and Rickie had lilltle R in a very popular episode.

The Dick VanDyke show seemed to showcase Rob and Laura’s overt affection.

Hill Street Blues… two couples, Furillo/Davenport and Grace Gardner/Phil Esterhaus shared passionate relationships that transitioned to passionate marriages.

Home Improvement seemed to show a happily married loving couple.

Even Soap and Maude had married couples having sex with each other as well as extramarital affairs.

Just about every married couple I know shared an intimate pre-marital relationship.

Sheessshhhhh…..

mb

“the dilemma cuts both ways”?
“the dilemma cuts both ways”??
“the dilemma cuts both ways”?????

Even Soap and Maude had married couples having sex with each other

Damn! I missed all those hot swing-n-swap scenes?

Damn, this made my day. As another of the old, married folk (18 years), the only part i agree with is that sex with one’s spouse can be amazing. Otherwise it’s nonsense.

When do you remember seeing a movie or a television sitcom where married people are really enjoying good and loving sex, and cherishing every moment of their intimacy?

A History of Violence – Maria Bello and Viggo Mortensen.

1. Little Miss Saving Myself has her Pepo thong too tight today…but is probably enjoying it.

2. Does Little Miss Saving Myself know waaaay too much about Married With Children? I assumed only perverts and liberals knew that much about Al and Peg.
Welcome to the dark side Marie!

What are you talking about? Three of my friends have gotten married within the past year, and all of them had sex before marriage. Ardgtw gwetoyuw weors!!! Goddamnit, this column wetuwghdwreg is so stupid WEPWg’sr@@G that it’s destroyed eguterlwepigitu my ability to dgdhjtuighj write in Englishehtgejkljaq!!!1!!!1!

That about sums up my own reaction.

Most comedy revolves around mocking the flaws of other human beings. If you have a show with nothing but happy, beautiful people who never fight and have perfect children, it will not be funny.

See, conservatives don’t care about whether a show is funny or not, or even whether or not it’s entertaining. All they care about is whether or not it’s decent, and presents proper family values.

Since ‘family values’ is one of those conservative gimme phrases, like ‘support the troops’, that has no actual objective meaning, but is merely used to refer to whatever emotional association the conservative wants to point to at the time, pretty much anything can be shown to fail in this particular. Even 7TH HEAVEN, for the love of God, fails to uphold proper conservative ‘family values’, assuming the conservative in question wants it to at any given moment in time.

I have a broader question — are there any conservative columnists with even a shred of writing style? These guys all write like a moose doing gymnastics. I mean it, they’re terrible. Do ANY of them have the slightest trace of wit?

Oops, sorry… Anonymous was me.

Marie is saying she’s a cow……..right?

If you want to be a cow Marie, well that’s fine but I don’t want to see pictures.

/snark

I always thought Peg Bundy was pretty hot. Not Kelly Bundy hot, but still pretty hot.

And shouldn’t the “Love and Marriage” title song have at least pleased poor repressed Marie? Can’t have one without the other.

Hey, I’ve written a few train wrecks myself. You disparage train wrecks, sir.

An admitted virgin saing herself for marriage giving advice about post marriage sex. Heh.

It’s like a blind person who’s never furnished their own house giving advice on interior design.

“See, conservatives don’t care about whether a show is funny or not, or even whether or not it’s entertaining.”

Try telling that to Dennis Miller.

I always thought Peg Bundy was pretty hot. Not Kelly Bundy hot, but still pretty hot.

Don’t forget their neighbor, Marcy – she was hot too. And the fact that she’s a real-life lesbian makes her even hotter. 🙂

Try telling that to Dennis Miller.

I dunno. That Monday Night Football stint was enough to scar his reputation forever.

Try telling that to Dennis Miller.

I would love telling Dennis Miller right to his face how much he sucks and how painfully unfunny he always was. Oh, and how washed up he is. Sissy-ass, bedwetting, scared motherfucker. He is teh suck.

You know Marie Jon’ or whatever the hell her name is will be the worst lay in the history of the world. Good luck getting her to engage in any kink at all. It’d probably take ten years for her to agree to get it in any position other than missionary.

I missed that gig, Brad, and, to be honest, not all of his jokes make me laugh, or even put a smile on my face, but, overall, you must admit, he is gifted with a great deal of wit.

In a thoroughly modern and pleasure-driven world, might this “old and crude” saying possibly be referring to sex? Indeed.

Please… someone get Marie a Georgia Satellites CD, stat!

Please do not be too hard on Marie’s lack of grammar.

She has decided to show her solidarity with all the other cartoons. From now on, her articles are now translated to Danish and back to English through Babelfish.

In the immortal words of the Simpsons:

Lisa (Reading Comic Book Guy’s T-Shirt): C:\DOS, C:\DOS\Run, Run\DOS\Run. Ha! Only one person in a million would find that funny.

Frink: Yes, we call that the Dennis Miller Ratio.

Al “Touchdown” Bundy (jersey number 33) as full back for the Polk High Panthers did in fact score four touchdowns in a single game on November 17, 1966 clinching the Chicago High School Championship against their hated rivals from Andrew Johnson High. That game and scoring the most touchdowns in a single season earned him the MVP award for that year. His record remained unbroken unti…

What? You can only geek out over Star Trek?

I missed that gig, Brad, and, to be honest, not all of his jokes make me laugh, or even put a smile on my face, but, overall, you must admit, he is gifted with a great deal of wit.

Wit, my ass. His tired shtick of dropping obscure references is not funny, and is only designed to let you know how “smart” he is. That’s why he’s in cheesy commercials and his terrible television shows get quickly canceled– he sucks. SNL was 20 years ago and he sucked in that too.

Only when the woefully satire-challenged like MJ here address the “values” issues of shows like Married with Children do I ever bother to once again get into this. Although not overtly presenting itself as a model for family values, the Bundies did in fact present a positive view of the family. Peg and Al never did cheat on each other (despite always being tempted to and obviously having reason to), thereby displaying genuine virtue, which only exists in the presence of temptation, and not some phony, forced virtue you see on more obvious and treacly “family values” shows.

As well, the family showed amazing solidarity in supporting each other when needed…when they, as a family, would whip the tar out of another family, for example. It’s the same take on “family values” The Simpsons present, which, while grossly satirical (and entertaining), also strikes more of a chord among sensible and intelligent people than phony families with perfect children and never-ending romantic love.

JK47, gotta disagree with you about Marie’s penchant for the king. She’s obviously a serious rhetrosexual – look at all the deviant acts she’s forcing on the English language.

i am upset – over 50 comments and not one from marie john. where’s the love?

The only people I know who “save themselves for marriage” are the ones who can’t get any.

I believe that if Dennis Miller were on the side of you guys, you would all be praising him. Admit it. But, suppose I’m wrong—either way, he’d be laughing all the way to the bank.

McLawyer? I think you mean Dr. McNinja! (www.drmcninja.com)

I believe that if Dennis Miller were on the side of you guys, you would all be praising him. Admit it. But, suppose I’m wrong—either way, he’d be laughing all the way to the bank.

Wrong. Miller only became a public wingnut after his career had totally hit rock bottom. He became a true flag-waving wingnut after the MNF debacle. Can’t blame him. I mean, when your TV show has been canceled, you become a national joke because of your terrible performance on MNF and you can’t get movie roles because you’re a terrible actor, why not try sucking up to the dumbest segment of America?

Let me reiterate. He sucked on SNL, sucked in every movie he’s ever been in, sucked on MNF and had two of his sucky television shows canceled. Embracing loony wingnut politics is his crowning achievement, forever guaranteeing him a place in the pantheon of suck.

“See, conservatives don’t care about whether a show is funny or not, or even whether or not it’s entertaining.”

Not true. A reckless stereotype. We just have different ideas about what is funny and what is entertaining. Funny is not a synonym for perverse. Oh, and, BTW, Dennis is only funny to somebody who has a sense of humor.

Several people have brought up shows with couples who obviously love and are attracted to each other, and the more I think about it, the more I remember, too. Dharma and Greg, Mad About You, West Wing, Family Ties, I don’t even watch that much TV, they just are not that hard to find. “Oh, heavens, they just don’t don’t make films or shows about happy married people” my lily-white ass.

And what is best about the shows you’ve mentioned, tigrimus, is that none of the writers or producers of these shows have any hidden agendas, or any inclination to cram any politically correct crap down the throats of unsuspecting viewers.

Hey – somebody mentioned the Simpsons vis-a-vis Dennis Miller, but no one mentioned them as a depiction of happily married couple with an active sex life.

I know they are just cartoons, but they are one of the few TV couples who are frank about enjoying marital sex.

Also, I didn’t notice that Miller became a wingnut after his MNF gig. Might it have had something to do with Al Michaels’ politics? Like CBS’ Jim Nantz, he’s a bit of a wingnut himself…

All I can tell you, Ditis, is that the day anyone decides to become a right-winger (I’m assuming that’s what you mean by wingnut) is the day that such a person signs up for a winning team.

Where did I go wrong. My wife and I lived together for two years before we got married,27 years ago (this month).

Was that the topic of this conversation, or are you trying to move the goalposts?

At any rate, I’m sorry television is crammed down your throat. My TV has a newfangled doohicky that allows me to turn it off, maybe you should look into it.

All I can tell you, Ditis, is that the day anyone decides to become a right-winger (I’m assuming that’s what you mean by wingnut) is the day that such a person signs up for a winning team.

Conservative entertainers pretty much suck. You’ve got what, Arnold, Dennis Miller, Mel Gibson and all the crap Nashville mullet country music. It is not hard for a mediocre hack like Miller to rise through the ranks of conservative comics, because conservatives are generally not funny. Conservatives are generally smug, self-righteous gasbag pricks.

Make a quick rundown of the greatest all-time comics: Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Bill Hicks… all liberals. They would all wipe their ass with a hack like Dennis Miller.

JK: Hell, Carlin alone could face off with the entire conservative entertainment lineup and still hand them their asses in a paper sack.

Carlin is a finely honed bullshit detector combined with an expertly trained bullshit destroyer on every subject from criminal law to foreign policy. (See the “bigger dick” foreign policy routine)

Miller is a talentless hack, he has no wit and yet once in awhile his writers managed to come up with a reference obscure enough to be somewhat funny. His best went something like: “Whoa, that [insert scandal plagued politician here] is in deeper shit than a midget cleaning out a porta-potty outside a mexican bran muffin factory”.

While slightly smile inducing, compared to a great like Carlin, this is just a pile of puke. Plus miller is a corporate schill.

As a director, there aren’t too many as successful as Mel Gibson.

But JK47, you do have a point. We are, on the whole, about as funny as you (as an individual) are unbiased, gracious and loving.

Don’t forget their neighbor, Marcy – she was hot too. And the fact that she’s a real-life lesbian makes her even hotter.

I don’t know. Marcy never really did it for me. Factoring in the lesbian thing does up the hotness quotient; but she’s still no Peg Bundy.

Hell, I was wondering, assuming this isn’t too tacky, if we could do an informal poll of who’d we rather marry: Peg Bundy (as she was on the show) or Marie Jon; knowing, of course, that Marie is supposedly virginal and that Peg is, well, not so virginal. And added to this, of course, is that Peg is always hot-to-trot; where as Marie seems, I don’t know, cold-to-hold (though that might just be the turtle-neck). But I suspect that Marie is a better cook; so you’d have that going for you. And lest you think this is just tacky or crude, remember, this does tie-in with her sex & marriage theme.

So how about it: Who do you take as your lawfully wedded wife: Peggy or Marie?

It’s a no brainer, Biobrain. It’s Marie for me, all the way!

In college, I did some volunteer work with aspiring journalism students at a local high school. Inevitably, our get-togethers would wander away from ledes and inverted pyramids, and we’d talk about Life As A Teenager. As a newly post-teenage-type person, it was quite illuminating. On one side, most of the “drama” these kids were going through were little things blown way out of preportion. On the other, these kids were of the Columbine Era and the freaks-and-geeks crowd, so there was also always some hardcore shit going down with them.

I bring this up cause there was one girl who was big on the whole “saving myself for marriage” thing. She was convinced that her and her current boyfriend’s sex life would the stuff of legends once they got hitched. I never said anything about it – didn’t seem proper, really – but I never could help thinking “Little Sister, are you in for a rude awakening, and so is the boyfriend.”

She also swore up and down neither one of them had ever masturbated, which I didn’t believe for a second, frankly.

Not that this isn’t a silly discussion, but as far as funny Republicans, James Downey is one of SNL’s all-time best writers (he’s been around forever) and I just read that he’s a Republican. So I guess they can’t all be bad (the law of averages is against it). Besides, I think he’s an old-school Republican and not a Bushie.

And let’s not forget that the Southpark guys clearly swing in the Republican direction (though I honestly can’t stand that show).

Oh, and I believe that James Woods is a Republican, though I can’t imagine why; and he’s not particularly funny (though he was pretty good on the Simpson’s once).

And if anyone believes that Dennis Miller didn’t turn Republican to save his dead career, they really weren’t paying attention. Miller lost his humor long before he switched teams.

neoconartist – your characterization of politics as team sports is a great analogy for the way that the right wing seems to operate.

Because in sports, you support the team, but you don’t actually get to be on the team. When they win, you get to feel like you played a part, even though you had little to do with it. And then, as the real players enjoy material benefits because of their victory, all you get is the opportunity to go on the internet and tell the other team’s fans how great you are because you picked a winner.

I happen to like the sports analogy, because no team is on top all the time, dynasties always end, and sometimes a team can fall from grace in the space of one season.

And let’s not forget that the Southpark guys clearly swing in the Republican direction (though I honestly can’t stand that show).

I dunno. One of them was in “Bowling For Columbine.” They seem to be right down the middle to me.

We are, on the whole, about as funny as you (as an individual) are unbiased, gracious and loving.

Said by someone who refers to himself as “Limbaugh’s Love Child.” As if being unbiased and gracious means a shit to you.

And let’s not forget that the Southpark guys clearly swing in the Republican direction (though I honestly can’t stand that show).

The show always comes off as more Libertarian than straight-up Republican. The townsfolk – rural, blue collar, religious, “family values” oriented – all come off as idiots. It’s all cases of extremes, poking more fun at “busybodies” and “do-gooders” than taking any real hard political stand.

That is, of course, between the scenes that feature talking turds, which does tend to sully whatever message Misters Parker and Stone are trying to push across. I haven’t watched the show in years, but it seemed to me they’d gotten caught in the SNL rut of taking ideas that were funny once (maybe) and running them completely into the ground.

Because in sports, you support the team, but you don’t actually get to be on the team. When they win, you get to feel like you played a part, even though you had little to do with it.

Right. And no matter who is on the team, you are a fan of them. Like with Yankee fans and Johnny Damon. He’s the worst guy in the world, the anti-Christ until he gets traded to the Yankees. Then his personal character is not so important anymore. Then it’s, “Go, Johnny!”

It’s a no brainer, Biobrain. It’s Marie for me, all the way!

Yeah, but that’s just because you’re delusional enough to believe her about her wanting to have sex abunch after she’s married. But that ain’t going to happen. She’s a coldfish and she’ll always be a coldfish. The reason she’s saving herself isn’t because of her ideology or religion; it’s because she has trouble with physical intimacy. She’ll have three kids and will only “do it” six times at the most. And she won’t even enjoy it once. And yes, you can tell all that from her turtle-neck.

But if you want to continue with the fantasy that she’s some rarin’ to go hotty waiting for those vows before she springs into action; who the hell am I to stop you. Knock yourself out. Just make sure to wash-up afterwards.

We are, on the whole, about as funny as you (as an individual) are unbiased, gracious and loving.

If there’s a direct, bidirectional correlation, you should be at least a little funnier than you are and we should be far, far grimmer.

tigrimus, at best, your statement is a hypothesis based on biased, and highly selective observation. Bob Hope was a conservative, and he was extremely funny. Bill Cosby is a conservative, and also has a great sense of humor. If you were to actually conduct a study, and if it were possible to actually be unbiased and objective about something like a sense of humor, you would find that those qualities you assume to be only within reach of the liberal elite, are relativley equally distributed among the population at large.

Is there anything funnier than people proudly admitting they are adult virgins? That just cracks my shit up.

I wasn’t talking about Bob Hope or Bill Cosby.

“She’s a coldfish and she’ll always be a coldfish.”

No, Biobrain, with all due respect, I like ’em cold—colder than a fish freshly caught in an ice-fishing expedition…and just as slimy and squirmy too. Sex is nothing if there’s no challenge involved.

you would find that those qualities you assume to be only within reach of the liberal elite, are relativley equally distributed among the population at large.

Some things are so absurdly unprovable and pointless that they shouldn’t even be said.

Thus said, I’d just like to state for the record that Bill Cosby hasn’t been funny for decades; and anyone relying on Cosby’s humor in order to make a point is really really desperate to make a point.

To be fair, while George Carlin is a fairly good observer of life (or at least, used to be) he was never actually funny, even in his heyday. And again, that is a provable fact and not subject to opinion.

In the meantime, during the long, long years of noble self-deprivation for the holy cause of chastity, Marie must be very, very sure to never ever imagine her one true soulmate gently nibbling her earlobe while whispering her name in her ear and then softly caressing her hoohoo, because that would only lead to masturbation, which is also a sin.

Poor Marie Jon’. That must really suck.

If you were to actually conduct a study, and if it were possible to actually be unbiased and objective about something like a sense of humor, you would find that those qualities you assume to be only within reach of the liberal elite, are relativley equally distributed among the population at large.

I think you’re wrong. I think if you look at the creative arts, the people who thrive are overwhelmingly liberal. I’m talking art, film, music. Art created by conservatives tends to pretty much suck.

Look at music alone. You’ve got Sammy Hagar, Ted Nugent, Christian rock and mullet Nashville country. Oh, and Neil Young was a conservative in the eighties. When he made the worst albums of his career.

There is a reason for this– liberals are more interested in making art and relating to others. Conservatives are more interested in increasing the size of their pile of money. Good art is about sharing things. And we all know how conservatives feel about sharing things.

George Carlin is, without a doubt, talented, but are you suggesting a correlation between his talent and his political affiliation?

And, going back to the subject at hand, if I were single, I would ask Marie Jon for a private consultation in which she would specifically instruct me on which specific ten acts to most vigorously avoid before entering into a marital union.

I think if you look at the creative arts, the people who thrive are overwhelmingly liberal.

Ahh, but that’s only because of the liberal conspiracy by which they intend to indoctrinate the world into being liberal; all so they can destroy America, which they hate so much. How could they possibly do that if they allowed conservatives to have entertainment jobs? It’s the same thing with the university system. All skewed against the poor conservatives. Oh, and I’m sure the Jews have something to do with that too, though you didn’t hear that from me.

Actually, Doctor Biobrain, you are assuming that “thriving” as an artist only has to do with creativity. Actually, the ones who thrive, are the one who are most opporunistic, aggressive and business savvy. Then there is this minor issue: Who are the gatekeepers? Aren’t they also mostly liberals?

I believe that the most creative works and the most creative artists, are not necessarily the ones in the spotlight, but the ones you and I never hear about.

I think what you are really trying to say is “We are superior. We are better than people who are not like us.” I’m not calling you a Nazi, but, I’m a little curious, what color of eyes do you think the creative people have?

I would ask Marie Jon for a private consultation in which she would specifically instruct me on which specific ten acts to most vigorously avoid before entering into a marital union.

Ha! I can tell you which ones to avoid right now: The five on your right-hand and the other five on your left. And if you’re limber enough, you should avoid the ten on your feet too!

As for Marie’s answer, I can assure you that she wouldn’t know what you’re talking about. If you were lucky, she’d just slap you. Tough shit falling for conservative girls. That’s why I married a liberal.

So let me get this straight, BLT is posting under everything but his original name now? Now we have to keep an eye out for this limbaugh lovechild nonsense?
Also…
No, Biobrain, with all due respect, I like ’em cold—colder than a fish freshly caught in an ice-fishing expedition…and just as slimy and squirmy too. Sex is nothing if there’s no challenge involved.
That’s possibly the most disturbing thing i’ve ever read. Literally. What are you BLT, some sort of fucking necropheliac/rapist or something? Goddamit that’s sick.
Getting back to the Marie/Peg bundy debate, I honestly side with the good doctor on that one. I think if someone tickled Marie in just the right way, she’d suddenly realize what she’s been depriving herself of all these years, and once she gets going she’ll be like some sort of adult version of a rebellious teenager, seeing as she likely never got to that phase in her emotional development.

Two weeks later we’ll see her in the industrial park giving beejers to buy cheeseburgers, with only that (now) ripped and tattered blue turtleneck to keep her warm at night, her dreams of matrimony with VBen dashed…

Can you honestly say, Biobrain, that, if offered, you would refuse a slap from the hand of Marie Jon?

Timmah, I guess you’re not one of the liberals with a sense of humor that everybody here seems to be taking about, or you would recognize the difference between literal self-disclosure and a joke.

Nevermind, Timmah, I just finished reading your post. It seems you’re every bit as twisted as I am.

It may have been written as a joke, but it’s still one of the most creepy things I’ve ever seen anyone take credit for, intentional or not.

And that’s coming from someone who thought the lyric “I’ll fuck your asshole with a piece of frozen shit” was funny and not creepy.

Then there is this minor issue: Who are the gatekeepers? Aren’t they also mostly liberals?

Sadly, No. Who the hell are the gatekeepers to the entertainment industry? You think they asked Madonna and Barbara Streisand and Britney Spears what their politics were before they let them in? You think that Michael Moore’s success was just handed to him? The “gatekeepers” you speak of are the American people who continue to support these artists.

Hollywood and the rest of the entertainment industry doesn’t give a shit what your politics are. They just want you selling seats, albums, and commercials and that’s all they care about. It’s a damn business. And if they believed that Goldwater’s ghost could sell 10 million records, they’d give him a record deal immediately.

The reason I think that conservatives don’t succeed as well is just that I don’t think they’ve got the right kind of mindset. I can’t possibly explain this to you, as you’re obviously oblivious to what that mindset is; but it’s true. There’s a type of mind that is good at being creative and artsy and sells record and people who lean conservative are generally not those types of people. Again, I’m not going to bother to explain that to you, as it would take fucking forever; but it’s true nonetheless.

But if you actually believe that producers would turn down a potentially popular artist simply because they’re conservative, then you’re a complete wackjob who doesn’t deserve to talk to me. All producers want is success. When your whole livelihood can be destroyed with one failed project; you can’t risk to ask for political credentials first. But again, the ultimate “gatekeepers” are the American people.

A married couple has sex and very much enjoys their intimacy in the movie “The 40-Year-Old Virgin”. What’s the big deal?

These guys all write like a moose doing gymnastics.

OW. My abs hurt from situps and it really hurt to laugh at that, but it was worth it.

Whoops! I forgot to mention that the answer to “when do you remember seeing a movie or a television sitcom where married people are really enjoying good and loving sex, and cherishing every moment of their intimacy” is: yes.

Only a person fixated in their anal stage of development would think that’s funny Timmah. And BTW: You’ve got to learn to loosen up a bit, and recognize a little deadpan humor when you see it.

Getting back to the Marie/Peg bundy debate, I honestly side with the good doctor on that one.

Wait, am I not the “good” doctor? What’s going on here?

I think if someone tickled Marie in just the right way, she’d suddenly realize what she’s been depriving herself of all these years

Looks like we’ve got another poor soul deluding himself into believing that Marie’s emptiness is just a mask hiding a warm temptress. I’m sorry, but Marie isn’t even a tease. There is nothing that will bring her out. She’s dead to the world, as far as the hoo-haw department is concerned. Some people get tricked into denying themselves life’s pleasures; and some people are just glad to have the excuse to bow out. And your lovely Marie is one of the thankful. Were abstinence not already part of her culture; she’d have created it.

But don’t let me spoil your fun. If thinking of Marie as some sexual timebomb is how you get your jollies; by all means go for it. Just make sure to clean up before you start typing again, as I’d rather not think of you that way.

I actually done a lot of thinking about this. The funniest people on the right tend to be the libertarians (PJ O’Rourke, Drew Carey, etc.) because they both see how absurd we on the left are a lot of the time (hey, I live in Jamaica Plain, I know what I’m talking about! I used to live right down the street from a hippie anarchist day care center!), and they’re not constrained by the guilt a lot of conservative Christians feel about saying four-letter words.

It’s kinda silly to make blanket statements like “No conservatives can be funny.” I remember when Bob Dole came to give a speech at my school (and I’d always bloody hated Bob Dole) and he had me LMFAO!!!!1!!! (well, ok, he had me chuckling- he told a great Newt Gingrich one-liner)

Biobrain, I think I know what you’re trying to say. You are trying to suggest that right-wingers are too rigid to take creative risks, and too conforming to color outside the box. Such conclusions are based on stereotypes, and, as such, your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I do agree that money is often the bottom line when it comes to the powers that be in the entertainment industry, but one cannot entirely dismiss the role ideological bias plays either. No, movie directors don’t administer political litmus tests, per se, but there are subtle ways that liberal artists are rewarded in the industry. You won’t find one critic, for example, calling Green Day names like Sex Pistol wannabees, but, though I think they are extremely talented, and their music sounds great, they are overrated in the industry as being some kind of creative pioneers.

Thanks, Brad, for bringing some balance, and some perspective back into the blogosphere.

Oh, and in terms of artists (especially musicians and actors), biobrain is absolutely right. Most conservatives I know (like my father, for instance) HATE exploring their feelings.

Probably because exploring feelings is seen as “womanly” and “weak.” Heh.

My father is the same way, Brad, but, though it is not my place to declare myself to be creative, it was my father’s strict approach that fueled a burning, unquenchable creative drive in me. And it was the emphasis of repression of emotion in our home that caused me to want to become a psychologist, and to play a role in freeing people up to express their emotions more openly.

Marie, as usual, is typing from her well-formed (but poorly-informed) rump.

My wife and I enjoyed five years of premarital sex (with each other!). We’ve now enjoyed seven years of marital sex (with each other!).

As time goes by, we’ve we’ve shared each other’s flesh less frequently than the early days. However, it’s still very enjoyable and not the least bit burdensome. 🙂

Your mileage may vary. Caveat emptor. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, repeatedly and with much enthusiasm.

Such conclusions are based on stereotypes, and, as such, your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Uhm, could you please explain this theory of yours that our unproven hypothesis’s are automatically wrong, while yours are always correct? You keep doing that, but I can’t imagine what it’s based on. I wouldn’t mind if you acted as if we’re on equal footing with our unproven assertions; but you keep pretending as if you’re winning something, when you haven’t proven anything either.

On, and critics are idiot windbags who have very little effect on public opinion. I agree that Greenday is over-rated, but their popularity is not based upon the critic’s opinions. But when was the last time that the critics consistently picked the most popular artists? Almost always, the “critics darlings” are not particularly popular. They always save their favorites for dark horses. That’s all part of their idiot culture. And no matter how much the critics like something, it will be killed if it doesn’t have popular support.

But again, if you’re going to pretend that this has something to do with liberal bias, you’re just a complete nutbag who doesn’t belong in decent conversation. The entertainment industry is popularity based. They will promote anyone who they believe will be successful. I know that it makes you feel better to believe that you’re being discriminated against; but it’s completely bogus.

Overall, for whatever reason, people just prefer entertainers who happen to be liberal. If you don’t like my explaination of it, find your own. But please don’t insult us with your insinuations of bias.

Green Day may be overrated, but dang, “overrated in the industry as being some kind of creative pioneers” is the definition of The Sex Pistols.

doctor biobrain: I was talking about “doctor” BLT who seems to be masquerading as both neocoartist and limbaughs love child when I mentioned the “good” doctor.

Also, please don’t misinterpret my prediction for Marie’s behavior to be some sort of weird attraction I have to her, while I will admit she’s no Midge Decter, she’s also no [insert nonexistant attractive right wing female pundit here]. I simply base the comment I made before on personal experience with girls that held a similar point of view to marie’s.

As for different types of people, I can attest to the fact that most of the people I went to business school with were definitely Republican. Does that suggest that there is an anti-liberal bias in the business school? Of course not. There are just different types of people who choose different directions. But does that suggest that liberals can’t succeed in business? Of course not. I graduated Summa cum Laude and got A’s in almost every business class I took. I liked the business classes far more than any fruity liberal arts class (though I got A’s in those too). And now I’m a self-employed CPA.

But the fact of the matter is that certain types of people prefer certain types of things. And people who lean towards the creative-side will also lean towards the liberal side. That isn’t to say that there aren’t exceptions; but there are certainly strong preferences.

Anyway, I’m done with this discussion as it’s far far too boring and pointless. I feel disgraced that I’ve gone this long without making a funny. I apologize and will work harder to not get dragged into pointless discussions.

No, Biobrain, my conclusions aren’t better, or more accurate than yours, but you seem to assert your hypothesis as if it were gospel truth. It is an hypothesis, nothing more and nothing less, but it does seem to border on some sort of ideological “racism” for lack of a better term. Your braggadocio about your grades doesn’t seem to do much for your case either, though I have had my own moments of braggadocio at this site, so who am I to judge? You may not consider me to be creative, most liberals will not even admit it, even if they secretly acknowledge it. But one thing they cannot challenge me on: I love music, and I love the arts. It is my passion, and I am a conservative.

…Um.

Interesting. There have been several different blogs with the “are artists conservative or liberal” discussion this week. Must be a quncunx of Mercury and Pluto or something.

The most realistic explanation for “liberal arts people=mostly liberals” that I’ve seen is threefold:
1) Liberal parents tend to emphasize individuality (and hence creativity) in their children while conservative parents tend to emphasize good behavior (and hence conformity) in theirs.
2) Conservatives tend to value financial stability and success more than liberals, and the artistic fields are notoriously unstable and unrewarding financially.
3) The arts have always had an element of shaking up the status quo and “making waves” in the culture. Especially since the Modernist movement, the arts have been almost required to “push the envelope” and “shock” people to be successful. By definition, conservatives want to preserve the status quo, not shake it up.

All of this, of course, doesn’t mean that no artists are conservatives, but statistically, more liberals are likely to be drawn to the artitistic fields and encouraged to go there by their families. And statictically, if there are more liberals in the arts in general, there is a greater chance that successful artists will be liberal.

(On the other hand, liberals who get rich tend to convert to conservatism, so the more successful the artist, the greater the liklihood of conversion.)

Hmmm, that post by “Biobrain” looks like something I would have said. I’m not sure what happened, but it wasn’t an issue of intentional misrepresentation. I claim it as my statement.

Dorothy, you, Brad R., Celticgirl, mmm….lemonheads, Dan Someone, and even Biobrain seem to be among the most reasonable and mature at this site. I respect those of you who do not simply react impulsively and end up being incredibly offensive, rude, and even hateful in the process. I don’t have to mention any names. You know who you are.

And your hypothesis does seem to make sense. There is only one problem, and it is that I believe the most passionate art comes from rebellion, and much of the rebellion in art has been from folks who were rebelling against their conservative parents. Some of it represents a rebellion against societal elements, but even much of this is projected onto society, when in fact, it has it’s origins in parental relationships that were overly restrictive in nature. What are your thoughts on this observation of mine?

Dr. BLT, why do you assume we care if you think we’re mature, rude, offensive, whatever? Are we making you come to this site and post under different names, constantly mentioning how cynical we all are?

I respect those of you who do not simply react impulsively and end up being incredibly offensive, rude, and even hateful in the process.

Well I guess that makes me feel better that I just deleted the insult-filled rant I just wrote against you (I just came back from dinner in an uncharacteristically foul mood and really let loose). Partly it was because you posted with my name; which freaked me out. And partly because you continue to misrepresent what I said.

But frankly, I don’t see why you’re worthy of polite comments. Not that you’re particularly insulting; but because you’re clearly a troll who just wants to stir up trouble. Why else would you be here? And frankly, I have strong suspicions that you’re a closet liberal who just won’t admit to it. That perhaps you even enjoy the liberals who insult you, as it makes you feel better about your choice of being conservative. But I suspect that you’re just doing it to be a little rebellious yourself and that you’d probably fit better in the liberal category; if you’d allow yourself to. That’s the way it is with most conservatives, who are only “conservative” because they’ve learned to hate liberals so much. And that sounds like it’s the case for you. Overall, the conservative position is an entirely absurd one that no one intelligent adopts, unless they’re just being obtuse.

I don’t think a sense of humor has anything to do with whether you’re a liberal or conservative.
I think it’s based on lip size. The funniest people I know have very small lips.

This is going to be way to long, and I apologize, but please be patient, I have a few things to clear up.

“Dr. BLT, why do you assume we care if you think we’re mature, rude, offensive, whatever?”

Anne, I don’t assume anything. I don’t care if you don’t care, but I want those who showed restraint towards someone they strongly disagree with to know that I appreciate it. I haven’t been perfect in the way that I’ve presented my arguments. Sometimes the way I’ve worded certain statements was unintentionally offensive, but I’ve always strived to express my opinion in a respectful manner. I have not always received respect in return. A couple of individuals have been extremely cruel. So when I see maturity and restraint, I respect it and appreciate it.

Doctor Biobrain, I was raised by parents who loved me, but went overboard in their conservative views and in the manner in which they introduced me to them. I’ve been a rebel ever since, but I don’t resent their conservativism, and have even adopted many of their views.

It is the “overboard” part that I continue to resent, and it is extremism at both ends of the spectrum that I continue to regard as the enemy. It’s a matter of extremism, not whether or not one is a liberal or a conservative, that is the issue. Extremism creates emotional reactivity as opposed to sound, reasoned judgement; hatred; divisiveness; terrorism, and nearly every imaginable evil in this world. I confront it when I see it on the left, and I confront it when I see it on the right.

Anne, I’ve experimented with a few different aka’s, not to throw anyone off, but because, first of all, I get bored using the same old aka, and second, a certain hateful individual has tried to discredit me by hijaking my initials and title (Dr. BLT, The Song Blogger) and has said vile words, and then has, in a cowardly manner, attached my “signature” to those words.

Biobrain, you strike me as good people. I won’t hold it against you for almost verbally attacking me. “Almost” is not something I will ever hold against anyone. Even Jesus was intensely tempted on a daily basis.

I don’t think a sense of humor has anything to do with whether you’re a liberal or conservative.
I think it’s based on lip size. The funniest people I know have very small lips.

I’m sorry, punkinsmom, I didn’t mean to ignore your comment. Punkinsmom, this one’s for you:

Mick, Don’t Ya Gimme No Lip
(A Bittersweet Tribute to Mick Jagger)
words and music by Dr. BLT, (c)2005
http://www.drblt.com/music/mick.mp3

In the first place, get over the idea that Marie is a virgin. Note: “Sex is a very sensual and beautiful act between people. It’s an act of passion that brings the couple into a mental bond that no other physical act can accomplish”

Sounds like Marie is saving herself, except for this one time, at band camp…..

True story: I was in grad school at a large southern university, read large female baptist population, and we were doing a sex survey for one of the social psych profs. Most interesting finding by far – baptist girls took it in the can, a lot. Why? So they could remain virgins, and so they didn’t have to have any protection – if they bought it it would mean they were planning to have sex, and that would be a big no no. So they would get all hot and bothered with that frat guy after the baptist student union social, and, well, it just popped up in there, ya know?

Also, i can’t help it, Marie gives me wood.

So, as I lacked both the fortitude of Dorothy and the depth of inebriation of ACG, I gave up half-way through parsing Marie’s glorious sentence. However, in the interest of making such, erm, “speech acts” better understood (and ’cause I was feeling bad for not sticking it out and untangling that mess), I fed it into the parser I’m working with for my research, which supposedly handles ill-formed input rather well. Tragically, it couldn’t assemble a complete sentence out of Marie’s masterpiece, and some of her language falls outside of its domain vocabulary. But none-the-less, behold my feeble contribution to the understanding of Ms. Jon’ and her “writing” “style”:

CLAUSE:
NP SEGMENT (SUBJ):
[It (LEX)(PN SINGULAR(ENTITY))]
NP SEGMENT:
[amazes (?)(UNK(ENTITY UNKNOWN))]
NP SEGMENT:
[those (LEX)(DET)]
Following PP attaches to: those
PP SEGMENT (PREP):
[of (LEX)(PREP)]
NP SEGMENT:
[us (LEX)(N SINGULAR(OTHER))]
CLAUSE:
NP SEGMENT (SUBJ):
[those (LEX)(DET)]
Following PP attaches to: those
PP SEGMENT (PREP):
[of (LEX)(PREP)]
NP SEGMENT:
[us (LEX)(N SINGULAR(OTHER))]
VP SEGMENT (ACTIVE_VERB):
[live (LEX)(V BASE)]
PP SEGMENT (PREP):
[by (LEX)(PREP)]
NP SEGMENT:
[the (LEX)(ART)]
[idea (LEX)(N SINGULAR(OTHER))]
CLAUSE:
NP SEGMENT (SUBJ):
[the (LEX)(ART)]
[idea (LEX)(N SINGULAR(OTHER))]
VP SEGMENT (ACTIVE_VERB):
[keeping (root: keep) (MOR)(V PARTICIPLE)]
NP SEGMENT (DOBJ):
[oneself (?)(UNK(ENTITY UNKNOWN))]
PP SEGMENT (PREP):
[for (LEX)(PREP)]
NP SEGMENT:
[marriage (?)(UNK(ENTITY UNKNOWN))]
CLAUSE:
NP SEGMENT (SUBJ):
[marriage (?)(UNK(ENTITY UNKNOWN))]
VP SEGMENT (ACTIVE_VERB):
[is (root: be) (LEX)(COP)]
[widely (root: wide) (MOR)(ADV)]
NP SEGMENT (DOBJ):
[misunderstood (?)(UNK(ENTITY UNKNOWN))]

Whoa, am I getting into the fray late or what?

First off: Marie honey, where ya been? Your absence here has lulled me into forgetting how abso-fuckin’-lutely batshit nuts you are girl. Honestly, you are the gift that keeps on giving.

As for sex and marriage, what about those unhappy souls trapped in loveless marriages but unable for some reason to break free (money, children, lack of a support network)? What about all those people trapped in marriages (mostly women, but some men) who are in abusive relationships and don’t have the psychological werewithal to recognize the dysfunction? If you look at the national stats, you gotta know that’s a WHOLE lot of people. Plus the fact that something like 50% of mariages end in divorce. I hate to break it to you Marie, but marriage is not the be all and end all you make it out to be.

And while I can see where some of you boys (you know who you are) think that our Marie is hot, hot, hot…look closer. That “come hither” look is thinly veiling a look that can only be described as “the place where erections go to die”. Good luck with that. Ice Queen is a better description.

Now as to the compliment from Dr. Multiple Personality. Hmmmm. Thanks, I think. But if you think my comments don’t amount to an “ad hominum attack” (one of your favorite phrases, BTW), then maybe they’re cloaked in more mature language, that’s all. I don’t appreciate your multiple personality bloviation at all. I don’t think it’s cute, funny, or contributes to the debate at hand. If you relish your self-appointed role as nay-sayer to the left, or just see yourself as the cold water needed to cool our hot, liberal passions (political and otherwise), then you need to ask yourself why you keep coming back for the “ad hominum attacks”. Masochistic much? You do seem to get quite a bit out of the “ohh, you said something bad about me/my politics/my religion/my music meme.

No, I’m not a doctor. I just play one on TV.

celticgirl, C.S. Lewis once said, “We read to know that we are not alone.” I guess the same could be said for why people interact the way they do at blog sites like this one. I come here to share my experiences with others and to draw from the experiences of others in a mutual exchange that is often challenging, but at the same time, often rewarding. Some people who post comments here don’t realize that I do learn from them. I have had to put up with a lot of abuse from a couple of hostile individuals, and at first I assumed it was their liberal ideology that made them so hateful.

Then one day, several people swiftly came to my defense when I was under a personal attack by one of them. On that day, I was reminded that kindness and loyalty were personal qualities that were not limited to people who held to the same beliefs as myself. As long as I see good in people here, and as long as I can learn from them, I will keep coming back. You may think I’m nuts, and you may not like me, but you are one of those who has been able to hold to a negative view of me, and still treat me with a certain modicum of respect and dignity as a fellow human being. I will continue to appreciate that, if it’s OK with you.

le docteur BLT n’existe pas.

Dr. Thiessen, do you think people would know you are a Christian based on your behavior here, or only because you’ve said you are? Have you been patient and kind, or rude, arrogant, boastful, quick to take offense and keeping a record of the “wrongs” committed against you? If those who claim to be Jesus’ followers are held to a high standard of behavior, a high standard they claim to set for themselves, is that “cruel” or “hateful”?

In all fairness to Marie (and as a somewhat more measured and *ahem* sober investigator), I re-parsed her sentence this morning after tweaking the vocabulary (changes in italics) so that it was all covered. I took the liberty of replacing the notion of saving one’s self for marriage with saving one’s self for the husband-yet-to-come, but I feel this is perfectly justified given the implications (if not the actual text) of her article’s title.

“It surprises those of us who live by the idea that keeping themselves for their future husband is not widely understood.”

[S [NP [It (PN)]] [VP [surprises (V)] [NP (DOBJ) [those (DET)] [PP [of (PREP)] [NP [us (N)]] [VP [live (V)] [PP [by (PREP)] [NP [the (ART)] [idea (N)] [VP [keeping (V)] [NP [themselves (PN)] [PP [for (PREP)] [NP [their (ADJ)] [future (ADJ)] [husband (N)] [VP [is (COP)] [not (ADV)] [widely (ADV)] [understood (V)]]]]]]]]]]]]]

(Output was also reworked slightly as to be more easily readable by a human being. Oh, if only Ms. Jon’ was so considerate…)

Even after this manual preprocessing, the poor little parser choked on her syntax. Yes, as a quasi-linguist her semantics were never in doubt to me, but still. Ouch. So, what are my conclusions?
Marie writes somewhat obsfucated English prose.
This parser should stick to easier, more reasonable tasks, like parsing foreign policy documents, ill-formed chat dialogues, and Doctor Seuss texts.
I have entirely too much time on my hands.

If you have a show with nothing but happy, beautiful people who never fight and have perfect children, it will not be funny.

With Exhibit A being “The Cosby Show.”

I’m so late into the thread here I’m not sure what of various topics I should address. But that’s the blessed curse of coming to work on a Saturday with no one else around.
Teh funny is so subjective that I find it hard to quantify it in conservative/liberal metrics. I have conservative friends who think Richard Pryor or Eddie Izzard is hilarious (and I agree wholeheartedly) but they don’t tend to couch the material in political terms. It’s just freakin’ funny to them. Same with music – while the artists tend to be to the left, some of their fans just dig the riffs.
Oh, yeah. Marie is definitely not the repressed sexpot, she is what she is. And that’s a damn shame.

And let’s not forget that the Southpark guys clearly swing in the Republican direction (though I honestly can’t stand that show).

Not so sure I agree with that – and I actually watch the show.

First off, they have absolutely no respect for religion. Period. You only need to watch about ten minutes of pretty much any episode to pick up on that.

Second, did you see the Terri Schaivo-inspired episode? In it, Satan is trying to determine his next course of action in influencing earthly events. When he wonders out loud how on earth he will accomplish what he wants, his advisor says, “It’s simple – we’ll do what we always do. Use the Republicans.”

Granted, the South Park guys are no friends to Democrats either. They seem to skew more libertarian than anything else (which is nowhere near the same thing as Republican), and get the most pleasure out of skewering anybody who takes themselves too seriously.

It helps to actually be familiar with a show before you start trying to discern the political leanings of its creators, BTW.

I think I have to support spencer’s analysis of southpark, I remember they even have a faq on their site where a fan asks them how the hell they could support Bush, and they don’t.

“1) Liberal parents tend to emphasize individuality (and hence creativity) in their children while conservative parents tend to emphasize good behavior (and hence conformity) in theirs.”

It’s nonsense to say that the children of liberal parents will have personality traits deemed to be “liberal”, or that children of conservative parents will be conservative due to their upbringing.

One’s political beliefs does not shape the way one conducts one’s emotional relationships, particularly in the very complicated and fraught relationships between parents and children.

A child’s inclination to be creative or less so is part of the personality they were born with. Parenting can either allow creativity to flourish or stifle it, but bad parenting is NOT limited to one side of the political spectrum or the other.

Not to mention the fact that many of our most creative artists are those who rebelled against their upbringing.

Creativity doesn’t just express itself in art, either. Karl Rove is not an artist, yet his creativity at political spin is pretty amazing. It’s only surpassed by his lack of morality and ethics.

I have a broader question — are there any conservative columnists with even a shred of writing style? These guys all write like a moose doing gymnastics.

Speaking for the moose, I’m deeply offended. These guys write MUCH WORSE.

a media? perhaps, a medium?

Anyway, picking on someone merely because she dropped out of a crappy highschool is unfair. And Marie could easily made her point with almost any show on TV.

I do not watch sitcoms, but if anything, the situation at SF is just worse. Some shows show no sex and no marriages, one can’t figure out why the heroes differ by gender (Stargate SG1). Galactica shows sex all right, but nary a stable marriage.

Feature movies are no better. For example, one ends with a separated couple getting together again — after defeating an insane AI that was about to obliterate the humanity — but again, no sex.

Holy shit! This has got to be the first time that I haven’t leapt into a comments section here before 134 other comments have been posted! that said, I haven’t actually read most of the comments yet, so I don’t actually have much of anything to say… yet. Be back, um, eventually.

“Why buy the milk, when you already own the cow, you’re milking her for all she’s worth, and she’s providing you with all manner of dairy products?”

Wow, Bruce, that’s an… interesting way to portray your lady wife. Does she know you feel this way about her? Also, does she know about your little infatuation with Ms. Turtleneck:

It’s Marie for me, all the way!

Sounds like you’ve got a bit of a Jimmy Carter problem going there, Doc! Assuming you’re only unfaithful in your “lustful heart.”

I respect those of you who do not simply react impulsively and end up being incredibly offensive, rude, and even hateful in the process. I don’t have to mention any names. You know who you are.

Ooh, ooh! Me, me!!!

[,,,]I believe the most passionate art comes from rebellion, and much of the rebellion in art has been from folks who were rebelling against their conservative parents.

Um, perhaps somebody’s already said this (still haven’t finished reading all these comments!), but if they haven’t… Bruce, you’re conservative. Your parents are/were conservative. You’re “rebelling” against them… how, exactly? It’s easy for liberal children to rebel against liberal parents: you push way beyond what they think is appropriate. Yes, they have limits. But hawking the same old, same old conservative pabulum? How is that rebelling? You aren’t all that extremist, so unless your parents were real middle-of-the-roaders, or only very slightly conservative, I really don’t know how you can claim this in good faith.

Oops. Posted too soon, ‘cos a little further down the thread, we read this:

I was raised by parents who loved me, but went overboard in their conservative views and in the manner in which they introduced me to them. I’ve been a rebel ever since, but I don’t resent their conservativism, and have even adopted many of their views.
It is the “overboard” part that I continue to resent, and it is extremism at both ends of the spectrum that I continue to regard as the enemy. It’s a matter of extremism, not whether or not one is a liberal or a conservative, that is the issue.

So, let me get this straight, you “rebelled” by… fleeing toward the middle?!? You know… like Hillary Clinton.

Bwah-hah-ha-haaa!!! Oh, Bruce! You are occasionally good for a larf!

Marq: It’s about time you got here – Jeez!

I think this was the worst thread in the history of Sadly, No!

I expected quality MJ’. Bt we just got BLT, and BLT has never once comment at Three B, where he is a star.

Regarding silly JP folks: Brad, I really can’t stand the Spontaneous Celebrations crowd either. But remember, not all your local anarchists are dumpster-diving puppet-show artists.

Kelly Bundy may have dressed trashy to manipulate boys, but she didn’t go “all the way” because (in her own words)”Why buy the cow when you can get the eggs for free?”
(Is it sad that I remembered that?)

Carlin’s last TV special sucked. He’s losing it again.

Everyone commenting on MJ”s sexuality is forgetting one important thing: self-hatred. It’s one thing to be a cold fish, it’s another thing to be sexually repressed, but it’s a whole ‘nother thing to have a deep-running streak of kink that your fundamentalist upbringing has taught you to detest, and don’t nobody teach you that better than the Christians.

I’m guessing that our MJ’ has dreams at night of things that Hustler wouldn’t publish, and the only thing that keeps her from flogging herself when she wakes up is the fear that she might enjoy it. Every self-congratulatory virgin-’til-marriage column is both a reminder to herself of her pledge, and an ongoing punishment for her desire to break it. She hates the kink in her heart, and she hates herself for loving it. That is some fucked-upness that only fundie Christianity can instill.

The person who eventually taps her will either find himself with the cold fish, too enmeshed in self-hatred to enjoy herself, or will turn some hidden key to find a PVC-clad otherbeing who will knock him right out of his white starched boxers. Either way, I can’t wait to read the column that follows.

Oh, and either way, that candles-and-rose-petals-and-gentle-unsweaty-lovemaking wedding night is going to be hella disappointing.

I think Marie Jon’ is an escort who’s really astroturfing her prissy dominatrix character on Renew America and all the other clunky URLs she writes for … probably picks up a lot of business from confused Young Republican creeps that way.

I don’t know about you, but I just come here for Dr. BLT. All sanctimonious, all the time!

“I will continue to appreciate that, if it’s OK with you.” – Dr. MPD (aka BLT)

oooOOOooo, do I detect the smell of buring martyr?

“Either way, I can’t wait to read the column that follows.”
ACG, I doubt that getting laid will improve her writing skills. She’ll just have one more topic to write badly about.

Does anyone else remember the panting headlines leading up to the nuptials of not-so-hotties Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey? And how they would be together eternally because she was a virgin? No? Well, I do spend more time at the supermarket than most bloggers. All that hot married sex requires chow for the manly Mr. Biscuitbarrel and our strapping batch of offspring.

When we do eventually get married, we will enjoy the everlasting and breathless love that most dream about.

Ha! Marie Jon’, tell that to Katie McCollow, who wrote this in Monday’s RedEye (published by the Chicago Tribune):

[The Winter Olympics are] chockablock with weird sports I would never know about otherwise, and I like that. There’s more stuff it seems like an average Jane like me could actually do.

I know I’ll never be an Olympic gymnast or a sprinter, but watching the luge . . . well, c’mon. I’m not alone in fantasizing that I could pick that up tomorrow and someday medal in it, am I? I’m married. Lying flat on my back, praying for a fast finish is nothing new.

Laughing my a** off at this entire post. Incidentally, lived together before marriage. For the shocking reason that we love each other, and wanted to spend time together.

MJ,
You should really start preaching things you’ve learned through lifes experiences. Marriage is a beautiful institution between a man and a woman. So, why don’t you stop ruining marriages with your lascivious acts, acted out on the internet with men and get yourself a little. The sex (love making) was good before, now its great! Thanks for all your advice, i’ll take it into consideration. Oops, too late for that.

Marie
If you truly want what you said and once upon a time we spoke of… contact me…still in Ohio