Gee, who saw that coming?

Unlike the American liberators, I will bet you that Hamas really will be greeted with candy and flowers.

We misunderestimated the nature of geopolitics in the Middle East, methinks. Which is yet another way that this particular adventurist fiasco resembles Vietnam.

Yeah, but Hamas sucks, dude. They really, really suck. No good can come from this.

The terrorist Irgun eventually turned into the Likud party, Hamas could effect a similiar transformation. Incidentally the NYTimes recently referred to the Irgun as a militia group, so that’s what I will refer to Hamas as.

The terrorist Irgun eventually turned into the Likud party, Hamas could effect a similiar transformation. Incidentally the NYTimes recently referred to the Irgun as a militia group, so that’s what I will refer to Hamas as.

1.) The last thing the Middle East needs is another Likud Party running the government.

2.) They’re terrorists, dude. T to the errorists. They’re the ones who proudly bomb fucking busses and night clubs.

3.) I’m strongly against the Israeli settlers’ movement. Every one of those settlements should be torn down. That said, there’s no justification for deliberately targeting innocent civilians within Israel as retaliation.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment about the suckitude of Hamas, Brad. But I fear there comes a point in time when things become so fucked up, the only way for them to ever become better again is for them to become even more fucked up. What was it Shakespeare said about a tide in the affairs of men which, when taken at the flood, leads on to greatness?

I don’t say this out of any sort of joy at all. Honest. I really don’t. I hate conflict and violence, and would much rather spend my time reading good books and playing video games. But this is the world that others have made for us. I don’t see any way around this.

I’d hate to live in a society that knowingly elects a bunch of violent hatemongers who see no way to further their agenda than through violence. Oh, never mind.

I’d hate to live in a society that knowingly elects a bunch of violent hatemongers who see no way to further their agenda than through violence.

Hey, you think I was happy about the last election?

Since we’re supposedly “spreading democracy” and Hamas was democratically elected, what’s Bushco gonna say/do now?

Careful what you wish for.

Since we’re supposedly “spreading democracy” and Hamas was democratically elected, what’s Bushco gonna say/do now?

I’m watching his press conference right now. He’s basically saying that it’s good that the Palestinians exercised their democratic rights, but it’s bad that they elected a bunch of terrorist fruitcakes.

The bottom line is, democratic elections will not in and of themselves hurt terrorism.

Hmm. Of the last four prominently-watched democratic elections (Venezuela, Bolivia, Iraq, Canada, and now the Palestinians), the administration is now 1-for-5, and that only because of an Abramoff-sized scandal.

All these ex-Reagan administration officials are looking back fondly to the good old days of covert deals and killing dissidents. And W is not going to be saying “vox populi, vox Dei” any time soon.

(And, yes, Brad, I’m with Pablo that this is at worst neutral, and probably ultimately a good thing, in that political parties have to be responsible to their voters–note that Hamas cleaned up its act and stopped its violence in the run-up to the election unlike Islamic Jihad. And now they have to show that they can actually govern, instead of just back-bench and attack. For all the evils of the Likud, they aren’t going around killing people directly these days.)

Ken- we’ll see. I don’t see any settled two-state solution any time soon though. But your argument has merit.

Hamas is wising up. Recently they’ve been making overtures for dialogue in a range of directions (one of which was stymied because they wanted to talk to western “spiritual leaders” and no one could decide who to put forward…). At least a part of the organization wants to come in from the cold the same way that other such groups have done. Let’s hope it’s made possible.

The Purple Finger Brigades (the political arm of Operation Yellow Elephant) must love all this flourishing democracy we’ve helped import to the Middle East.

The Iranians elect the most insane guy they could find who immediately starts threatening Israel, Iraq solidly lines up behind the Islamicist parties who want to revert to the glory days of 1360, Egypt jails opposition leaders as a radical experiment in ‘prison democracy’ and now we get Hamas running what’s basically a country. And just wait ’til the resurrection of Bennie Netanyahu! It’ll be fantastic for everyone. Freedom’s on the march! At least we have our troops stretched to their limit in Iraq.

Brad, it should be noted that for all the bat-shit insanity of Hamas, the party that was ousted was ALSO built by terrorism, albeit more of a secular variety.

Brad, it should be noted that for all the bat-shit insanity of Hamas, the party that was ousted was ALSO built by terrorism, albeit more of a secular variety.

Again, a fair point. Still I get the feeling that Fatah was easier to negotiate with than Hamas is gonna be.

Probably. Which will then be met by the Israelis’ election of a real trigger-happy screw and so on and so on.

It’s a great day to be alive — you can just feel the love.

Probably. Which will then be met by the Israelis’ election of a real trigger-happy screw and so on and so on.

Good Lord, I hope it’s not Netanyahu. Unlike Sharon, who finally accepted reality in the end, Benny is still in Netan-Yahoo land.

He’s basically saying that it’s good that the Palestinians exercised their democratic rights, but it’s bad that they elected a bunch of terrorist fruitcakes.

Looks like we have something in common w/ the Palestinians.

Let me be clear, I in no way advocate violence. However, one can see the justification in randomly blowing up citizens of a democratic country thusly:

In a democratic country, the citizens elect the leaders, and are therefore responsible for the actions of the leaders. The terrorists’ message is: put pressure on your leaders to listen to our demands.

Now, in a dictatorship, the average citizen has no influence over the actions of the leaders, so in some sense, it is worse to kill average citizens of a dictatorship than a democracy.

The worst case scenario for the average citizen is to be living in a dictatorship that claims to be a democracy, because then your enemies perceive you to be responsible for the actions of your leaders (therefore a legitimate target in their eyes), but at the same time, you are powerless to affect the actions of your leaders.

Sucks, don’t it.

Maybe the headline to the thread should be:

MORE BAD NEWS OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST: LET’S BREAK OUT THE CHAMPAYNE!

Democracy in Palestine is going to be a huge failure, just like it is here in the US and A.

The worst case scenario for the average citizen is to be living in a dictatorship that claims to be a democracy, because then your enemies perceive you to be responsible for the actions of your leaders (therefore a legitimate target in their eyes), but at the same time, you are powerless to affect the actions of your leaders.

Boy, that would suck, wouldn’t it? Sure glad WE don’t live in a country like THAT.

You tool. Not only is this a pretty somber thread no one’s even blaming Bush for these results.

This election is a terrible thing for the Middle East and the world and the only thing that should be noted is that, with all the idiotic premature gloating that the Right faked over the Iraqi elections, this is a likely outcome for Iraqi democracy too in the near future — assuming the country lasts that long.

So, this is what we’re fighting for?

“Democracy in Palestine is going to be a huge failure, just like it is here in the US and A.” First, I would recommend Norman Vincent Peale’s classic book, “The Power of Positive Thinking.” You see the world with crap-colored glasses.

Second, if democracy such a huge failure in the US, why am I able to post at this site, without the government tracking me down and having me shot (though I have had a few near-death-threats from liberals)? Why are Americans who abhor my views able to do the same, and not be shot or silenced by the government?

Is that the yardstick by which democracies are measured? “The nation’s leader has eschewed checks and balances, arguing he can do what he likes including warrantless spying on citizens and locking them up without due process, but nobody’s been shot!” Man, talk about lowered expectations.

…if democracy such a huge failure in the US, why am I able to post at this site, without the government tracking me (who says they’re not?) down and having me shot (though I have had a few near-death-threats from liberals)?

Only a liberal would issue a ‘near-death-threat’.

“I think you stink — here’s hoping a car bears down on you and just misses!”

Why are Americans who abhor my views able to do the same, and not be shot or silenced by the government?

Magic. Or maybe because the government’s just too damn lazy.

Whatever it is, the government does silence dissent, for example, the illiterate-pansy-in-chief only speaks in front of people who have to agree with him. I mean it’s not like he really is a public servant or anything.

The reason we are still allowed to write and speak freely is to give us the illusion of freedom, and keep us pacified.
Just don’t actually try to DO something, or they’ll come down on you HARD.

Just tossing a coupla cents in for the idea that although Hamas has been responsible for terrorist responses to illegal occupation, Fatah was founded by the PLO, after all, and continued terrorist attacks through the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade. I think it likely that political power and international aid will cause Hamas to moderate its views. Then as Hamas becomes corrupted by wealth and power, Islamic Jihad will undercut it by increased extremism. Have a nice day.

I suppose the problem is that a completely unfounded line of association was created between political systems. Democracy does not guarantee freedom from tyrants. I mean (Godwin forgive me,) Hitler was elected. It’s the same thought process that says that communism always breeds dictators and non-Christian theocracies always hate freedom.

The idea that democracy is the Care Bear stare of love and justice is devoid of logic. A country that has democracy forced onto it is no more likely to suddenly become USA 2 than I have becoming an NBA superstar by wearing Kobe Bryant’s new line of Nike shoes. They may help, but there’s no guarantee that the past will be instantly replaced with an amazing ideal.

But, hey, I don’t believe in smearing Marines who disagree with my politics so what do I know?

Second, if democracy such a huge failure in the US, why am I able to post at this site…

Lord, the irony…

Pay attention to me! Though I am condescending and insulting, I have insights to share! Oh, and check out my blog, too.

Why do America and Israel hate democracy?

(snark)

You forgot to give the folks a link, Dong Flogger. Don’t tease them like that:

http://www.drblt.com/freesong

This outcome was predicatable. What people (ALWAYS) leave out of the discussion of Hamas is that they are a dual organization. Yes, they are terrorists. No doubt about it. But, for the past decade, they have also been the largest providers of health care, education, and other services to the Palestinian people, especially in Gaza. While Fatah was getting all fat and corrupt, Hamas was filling the needs of the street. You can have all the high level talks you want but at the end of the day, I’m voting for the guys who give me a job and put clothes on my kid’s back.

Hamas with pita bread is very tasty.

Condi Rice:

“You cannot have one foot in politics and the other in terror. Our position on Hamas has therefore not changed.”

can you taste the irony?

“Democracy in Palestine is going to be a huge failure, just like it is here in the US and A.” First, I would recommend Norman Vincent Peale’s classic book, “The Power of Positive Thinking.” You see the world with crap-colored glasses.

Ok, let’s look for the upside about a bunch of terrorists being elected. Maybe they’ll vote in a parliament to blow up school buses from now on.

Shorter Dr. BLT:

though I don’t know what a democracy is, I will take the time to post insults to the rest of you.

You know BLT, I had stayed out of this thread because not knowing much about the political situation there, I felt I had nothign constructive to add to the thread.

Maybe you should fucking start practicing that. It’s obvious here that noone is celebrating anything. If you want angry glee at world events like the french riots and such, go to LGF, you won’t find it here.

And stop being a blog whore.

Why I started my Amazing new blog a few days ago, but you don’t see me shamelessly whoring it. 😀

While I think Hamas, if they stay in power, will probably get pushed toward moderation, I think things will get much worse before they get better. The Israelis are going to be understandably squirrely about this, and are highly unlikely to show much restraint. That’s likely to inflame things, which will result in state-sponsored Palestinian terrorism, which will lead to an Israeli invasion and yadda yadda yadda, we’re back to the infitada.

I think things will get much worse before they get better.
Jesus, I hope not. I’d hate to see worse.

Ad hominem attacks; delclarations that I’m ignorant, and stupid; adolescent bullying tactics; virulent, venomous vitriol; ineffably foul language; perverse innuendoes; cowardly, pusilanimous attempts at hijacking my initials & aka; ridiculous ridiculing; Amishesque shunning; merciless mocking; innumerable attempts to impugn my character and to falsely discredit me; near-death-threats; and, worst of all, cheap shots without any constructive commentary aimed at my innocent songs………
the list goes on and on.

It’s all been tried before, but to no avail. As the opening line in What’s On Your Mind? goes in that 80s dance song by Information Society:

IT IS USELESS TO RESIST (ME)!

Bah, resisting takes up too much energy, I’ll just go back to ignoring you like everyone else.

This outcome was predicatable. What people (ALWAYS) leave out of the discussion of Hamas is that they are a dual organization. Yes, they are terrorists. No doubt about it. But, for the past decade, they have also been the largest providers of health care, education, and other services to the Palestinian people, especially in Gaza. While Fatah was getting all fat and corrupt, Hamas was filling the needs of the street.

I won’t argue with that. But it’s still not good that they’re in power. I dunno. We’ll see.

Timmah, does your declaration that you will go back to what amounts to “Amishesque shunning” represent your first step in ignoring me? If it does, you may have started out on the wrong foot.

I guess I agree that Hamas would have to become more moderate in the long term, but this is not guaranteed and it sure hurts peace prospects in the short term.

Things in the Middle East are about to get a whole lot nastier.
Is it just me or does that sound like the tag line for some sort of Arab girls gone wild or road trip movie?

That’s likely to inflame things, which will result in state-sponsored Palestinian terrorism…

i’m assuming that you mean sponsored by like iran or saudi arabia or something, right? cause the palestinians don’t have a state. that’s kind of the problem.

brad: no love lost on my part for hamas, trust me. but read the statistics on the occupied territories. these people take what they can get. and hamas has been providing more than most of the rest of the world, which almost uniformly wishes that the palestinians would just disappear never to be heard from again.

This isn’t as bad as it looks- indications are that Hamas is cleaning up it’s act some.
Granted, there will be a few splinter groups and the odd bit of sponsored terrorism, but I actually expect things will turn out better than one would think (assuming Crazy Bennie doesn’t get elected on the other side. One sane side can deal with an unbalanced opponent- two unbalanced negotiators… equals bad).
They aren’t stupid enough to try to declare state on state war with the Israelis- I suspect the leadership is that pragmatic. It will be interesting to see what tact they take- and who are named ministers, that will tell us more than the election itself.

I’m leaning toward this being a huge clusterfuck. The Israelis have already said they have no interest in dealing with Hammas in any way (other than bombing them, presumably), so that’s not a good sign.

Marq,

I insult your opinion above, whatever it may have been. I am very famous, of course, nearly as popular as Limp Bizkit. Millions of fans listen to my songs, which is why I must blogwhore for attention on a site where my views are out of sync and unwelcome. If you do not agree with my opinions or like my music, I hate you and you and your family should die painfully. That was a joke, wasn’t it funny? Ha ha!

Both the Aedes aegypti and the Anopheles crucians transmit West Nile virus. Avoid stagnant, brackish water.

So you’re a doctor? Well that must have taken a lot of work. I have a lot of respect for those who are educated, formally or informally (self-educated).
I hope you earned your degree from a reputable insitute of higher learning.

BTW, Please don’t insult Marq’s opinion, Dr. BLEAT.

Furthermore, if you are as famous as you claim to be, I applaud you for that, but be careful not to put the cart before the horse. It is much more important to write music from your heart than to write music to please others, or for the prospect of becoming famous. Personally, I believe simply participating in the creative process to be reward enough in an of itself, even if I never become famous.

As for blogwhoring, I haven’t seen much evidence of that in you. Look at me, I go even further in letting people know where they can find my music, but one could never consider what I do blogwhoring. I’m not trying to sell anything. You post with words, but I wouldn’t accuse you of wordwhoring. I post with words, and sometimes with original songs. That is my form of expression.

I would like to suggest that instead of hating people whose opinions you may disagree with, do what I do: Show them love, in your words and in your actions. Be free to disagree, but never call them bad names or put them down. Always let them know that your disagreement is not personal. You are free to strongly disagree, and even to despise their views, but never get personal in your attacks. Be above board and respectful.

If you follow my advice, you too can become more like me. Your aka suggests that it may, in fact, be your goal to become more like me, and that is why I have taken the time to offer you these tips.

Love, Agape Style
The Real Dr. BLT

It is I, the prodigal Frederick, returned after lo these many months! How about we spread some democracy by impeaching Bush?

Screw the topic of this thread, wouldn’t you all rather hear me blithering self-congratulatory platitudes? I love you, I love you all! But not in that way, if you get my drift. You people who enjoy sex, you’re evil, and you’re going to die of a horrible disease if there’s any justice. But don’t forget, I love ya!

You see folks, this is the problem with spin-offs. The manufacturer trying to replicate the original product, just can’t seem to get it right! The spin-off never seems to look or sound anything like the real deal. That’s why spin-offs sell for so cheap!

Good luck, Bung Gobbler, trying to pass this off as reflecting anything that in any way imaginable resembles my sentiment! These visitors may be a bit ideologically challenged, but many are quite bright. Give them a little credit.

pay attention to me! me! me!

a.j., I think (well, hope) that Hamas’s concrete assistance to Palestinians explains this vote, given that Fatah has degenerated into a closely held slush fund. If I had to choose between a group visible to me only when zipping by in bullet-proof limos, and a group that made sure my neighborhood had plumbing — not much of a contest there.

So maybe the Hamas win isn’t a full-on endorsement of their vicious foreign policy as much as it’s a fed-up rejection of Fatah corruption.

It’s possible, right?

Remember when the Black Panthers were public enemy number one in J. Edgar Hoover’s book? Remember why?

Sure they were violent and all, but what made them such a threat were their pre-school breakfast programs in the ghettos.

For the Palestinians, it’s as if the Black Panther Party just won political control of Detroit.

Here is my concern about the U.S. reaction to the Palestinian election: George Bush’s base includes evangelicals and Millennialists, the sorts of people who are expecting Armageddon in their lifetimes. Bush himself may in fact believe the same thing. How much closer does this election bring the world to their vision of the coming end times? And if you’re the most powerful man in the world, faced with a situation that advances an end-of-the-world agenda that you desire to come to fruition, what do you do?

Why are we mocked and shunned, why do you ideologically challenged folk fail to heap praise upon us? Perhaps we deserve it. Let the words of my unfortunate compatriot, Dr. BLT, speak for themselves. You may check above to confirm that these are, indeed, his exact words:

I’m ignorant, and stupid; adolescent… virulent…, ineffably foul…; perverse …; cowardly, pusilanimous…; ridiculous…
the list goes on and on…

Posted by: Dr. BLT, The Song Blogger | January 27, 2006 12:42 AM

Here is one MAJOR difference between Dr. BLT and the honored Drs. BEAT, BLEAT, TLC and myself (I cannot speak for my learned colleagues Drs. Deet and Rightwingbedwetter): if you are all weary of this, we’ll cut it out.

bob, you’ve got it exactly right. if hamas ONLY blew up busses and falafel stands, they would not have won this election. but in our dualistic world, people don’t want to understand that a single group is capable of both constructive and destructive actions.

i would never excuse attacks on civilians in any way, no matter who is doing the killing or dying. i am, however, a little fed up with people who don’t do their homework saying “oh my god! how could the palestinians support these monsters? the whole population must be a bunch of wild-eyed arab fundamentalists.” there are reasons for outcomes like this. and there are lessons. for example, the world marginalizes and ignores occupied and beseiged populations at its own risk, because often the most radical elements are then able to gain control.

ibLET, when you quote somebody and leave out key words in a sentence, and take phrases completely out of out context in an effort to mislead the public, you are breaking the law, pure and simple. It’s called slander. Don’t consider this a threat of legal action. It’s just a friendly reminder. You are going beyond ridiculous, and are now treading on thin ice.

What’s wrong, BLT, can’t take a joke? Never heard of satire? As I pointed the reader out to your actual comment further upthread, it is obvious that I was attempting to be humorous. You don’t like being called all the things you called us? Not very nice, is it.

ugh…thread hi-jackers, both of you. take it outside, kids.

The joke is on you, Blog Hogger, because any reasonable judge knows satire and knows slander when he/she sees it. I guess you could now consider this an official threat of possible legal action. I’m not ready to go there yet, mind you, because I am a man of much mercy, patience, and forebearance, but keep pushing the envelope and that day may arrive unexpectedly and without warning. If it does, don’t consider it tough luck, because you’ve been warned, consider it tough love.

Sorry a.j. and others, point taken. I’m done.

a.j., though I wouldn’t put myself in the category of thread-hijacker (maybe a bit of a thread-hog at times, but not a thread-hijacker, and certainly not an identity-hijacker) I don’t mind being called a kid, it makes me feel younger than I am, and, best of all, it doesn’t in any way resemble slander. I also thank you for accomplishing something I was admittedly having trouble accomplishing. Since one of us seems to have come to his senses, at least for the time being, I think I’ll take a little time out myself.

Dr. BLT:
you have posted no less than 8 comments to this thread which do not relate in any way to the topic, but merely continue an unrelated (and, may i add, stupid) dialogue with various other posters. this is a textbook case of thread-jacking. i am amazed that you claim that it is not. anyway, thank you for stopping.

You’re welcome, a.j. At the very worst, it is unintentional thread-hogging. Thread-jacking implies some planned, deliberate attempt to seize control and not let anybody else in. It’s kind of like more threatening version of a filibuster. I simply got a little carried away and sidetracked, and so, after this post, I’ll give you folks a little breathing room.

AAAAAAAAAArgh.

He’s like a parasite – and now he’s MULTPLYING!

MULTIPLYING? It’s just the honorable right-wing ventriloquist rock doc and myself, Random Guy. Not a parasite, a pair ‘o docs, or, paradox, if you will.