tehe. Look at me! I’m number 49!

Sandpaper snatch yesterday, the Beast link today. Her blog’s getting better by the day.

Hitchens made this same argument in the Nation during Gulf War I.

“I actually agree with Michelle Malkin…”

You see? I knew I was beginning to have an impact on you liberals.

Holy crap! Stein is a freakin’ moron.

I’ve read it twice now, is he trying to be funny or something?

I’m sure the wingnuts are going to go all bukkake on this one.

I think he’s trying to be satirical. But it just doesn’t work:

So you’re willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse.

Yeah, or maybe you’re a working-class kid who needed help paying for your education. Moron.

I actually think it’s perfectly appropriate that Robert Novak beat her out on the Beast list.

I dunno, maybe it’s because I’m not American, but I don’t see what the fuss is about. “You’ve gotta support the troops” is one of those phrases rendered meaningless by mindless use. One interpretation used by BushCo folks is “shut up. Don’t criticize”.

I’d say Stein’s ending is a much more acceptable definition of “support the troops”:

“All I’m asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return”

Jeeze, am I more lefty than S,N?

I thought Stein sounds quite reasonable.

So you’re willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse.
Um, yup.

Yeah, or maybe you’re a working-class kid who needed help paying for your education. Moron.
Um, nope. That working class kid could also rob a bank; s/he would probably stand a better chance of not killing any innocent bystanders that way.

Personally, if saying “Gee, I sure don’t want any of those kids to get killed, even if they are a pack of stupid retards who should know better than to join the army of a nation whose leadership is as fucked up as this one’s” is supporting the troops, then I support the troops. But I’m not sure it is.

Um, nope. That working class kid could also rob a bank; s/he would probably stand a better chance of not killing any innocent bystanders that way.

OK, I hate to break this to you, but just about every country has an Army, even Sweden. Furthermore, nearly every country in the world needs people to staff its Army. There is absolutely nothing immoral or shameful about joining the armed forces. It is not akin to robbing a bank.

“Gee, I sure don’t want any of those kids to get killed, even if they are a pack of stupid retards who should know better than to join the army of a nation whose leadership is as fucked up as this one’s”

And c’mon, dude, that’s not fair. I know a couple of people in the Army- one of them was a college friend of mine- and they’re not retards.

“OK, I hate to break this to you, but just about every country has an Army, even Sweden.”

I believe there are a few of those countries with standing “armies” that require service to country.

I could be wrong, lemmee check…

Ehh, I think it’s long overdue for someone to take the piss out of that empty, mindless cliche, “support the troops”. Is there seriously anyone who can’t clearly see that it’s nothing but an attempt to personalize policies and war itself into the form of Joe Neighborskid from Shithouse Falls, Arkansas?Sorry, folks, all the yellow ribbons and happy thoughts and prayer circles in the world won’t do shit to keep your friends or family safe. I would suggest just not taking the bait when your “support” is questioned, being that it’s nothing more than another right wing strawman designed to take our attention away from important things.

And as long as you’re throwing around useless wishes to a nonexistent deity, it would be nice to vocally support the people whose country has actually been turned into a war zone, something Americans are fortunate enough to not have to worry about. If all the right wing bedwetters are shaking in their boots over the existential threat of random terrorism, imagine how quickly they’d die of fright if there were an enemy actually strong enough to invade the lower 48 and wreak havoc.

Okey dokey…he’s a link, but not net savy: conscription by country.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Conscription_Map.png

I hope I don’t break anything.

I hate S,N!! I wrote a lengthy, well-reasoned and compassionate (and modest) response to some of the comments, and when I hit submit it said something about a junk filter. Argh!

So, here are some good quotes from that Beast site:

Going from the Red Sox to the Yankees is like fucking the guy that murdered your husband.

Sentence for R. Kelly: Trapped in a closet. Eventually dies of thirst.

If Pat Robertson’s local Starbucks caught fire, he would claim that God was punishing them for giving him a caramel latte when he ordered vanilla.

that and the Bill O. picture is hilarious.

Now my fingers are crossed as I hit post.

Inept reducio ad absurdum

“There is absolutely nothing immoral or shameful about joining the armed forces”.

Right, but unfortunately, there is everything immoral and shameful about the fuckers who use those forces. Always has been, and the few times they’ve been used in righteous causes doesn’t change that.

I’ll play the coward and not say anything other than I’m sure my high school friends in Iraq right now would appriciate your kind words as to their comparative worth to us.
Oh, and Stein is at least right on these points:
[G]ive our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, [and] mental health [care]

Right, but unfortunately, there is everything immoral and shameful about the fuckers who use those forces. Always has been, and the few times they’ve been used in righteous causes doesn’t change that.

OK, and that’s an entirely different point. If you’re angry at the war, blame the politicians. The Army just does the bidding of the Commander in Chief.

As General Fridovich, Commander of Special Operations Forces, Pacific Command said at a lecture on the Future of the US Military, in response to a question about his personal view on Iraq:
“The Army is a tool of policy, as are all of its members. We can only give our civilian leaders the best strategic advice we can in order to make their decisions, but at the end of the day, they are the ones making the decision whether to go or not.”
A pretty good summation of the Army’s role.

Of course, they are ‘only following orders’. Now where have I heard that before.

From Stein’s self written bio: Joel Stein is desperate for attention.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-bio-stein-b,0,2860970.blurb?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

Nuff said.

I’m sorry, but “Protest the war but support the troops” is just spineless pwog boilerplate. It’s empty rhetoric and surrenders to the “we’re more patriotic than you coz we like soldiering” agenda-frame of the warniks. There’s nothing silly about pointing out the absurdity of this catchphrase in a way that’ll make people think seriously about what they mean when they say they support the troops – does this mean you support military funding that assists the troops prosecute a war you oppose? If not, then what? I’m not saying Stein’s article isn’t dumb – it’s just not dumb for that reason. (For example, he parrots the “Viet vets were spat on by protestors” myth – that’s pretty stupid.)

But then I’m not an American, either – maybe this is a Yanq thing. I guess when an army is as busy as yours is, affecting support of it becomes a national reflex. Not that an Aussie has any right to bitch about another country’s militarism.

The Onion had a headline back in 2003 that pretty much sums up my feelings on this one. “Local man supports troops, except ones he went to high school with” I grew up between an air force base (McChord AFB) and one of the largest army bases in the U.S. (For Lewis, WA). I was torn during Gulf War 1 because I felt bad for the guys over there but simultaneously I thought “Hey, those are the guys that impregnated all my female friends via statuatory rape and then left town” cause that’s pretty much how it went down. That said, I also lived with a pack of army ROTC guys in college and they were okay, non-rapist Joes. So my two views of “the troops” — solid, educated dudes looking to pay for that education / guys who needed a way to get out of jail time or an abusive family. In other words, I support the troops who aren’t total a-holes.

— TP from UT

Fair enough Plebe- I know a few camoed bastards too, in my experiance, the sincere ones outnumber the psychopaths by a fair amount, though the Army attracts more of the crazies than most more mundane professions.
And, oh yes- Godwin’s Law has been breached!
Congrats, Blowback sir- you can pick up your door prize on the way out.

Dudes….from the map link that I provided…we could totally bum-rush the ENTIRE ARABIAN PENISULA.

If only we had a few good men that despises Islam.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm…

There is absolutely nothing immoral or shameful about joining the armed forces.

Well, that’s an interesting point of view. (Which is polite euphemism-speak for “NO! You’re totally fucking wrong! You’re so fucking wrong that you give ‘right’ a stomachache! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!”)

But that’s just my point of view, with which you are entirely welcome to disagree. (If you don’t mind being wrong!)

At least you’re being polite about it (wink).

I’m sorry, but “Protest the war but support the troops” is just spineless pwog boilerplate. It’s empty rhetoric

America must be a really bizarre culture to live in.

Dudes….from the map link that I provided…we could totally bum-rush the ENTIRE ARABIAN PENISULA.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm…

Don’t be too hasty, you’ll notice all of North America is conscription-free too. And over-stretched or not, bum-rushing us would still be a challenge.

“I’m sorry, but “Protest the war but support the troops” is just spineless pwog boilerplate. It’s empty rhetoric”

America must be a really bizarre culture to live in.

You got that right.

But more seriously, PtWBStT, as it is almost always used, is sort of conceding the terms of the debate to the other side, and sounds pretty but doesn’t actually signify anything. Those are good reasons to avoid using and/or respecting it that have nothing to do with whether or not it’s necessarily empty rhetoric.